- 1 hour ago
Chris Rock, John Boyega, Regé-Jean Page, Jonathan Majors and Josh O’Connor joined The Hollywood Reporter to talk about their respective projects.
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00:00:00years ago when i was on uh i had my own show on hbo it was at the height of the sopranos
00:00:06and i got a couple of offers to be on the sopranos it's like i like it too much i don't
00:00:11i don't want to spoil it it's wicked enough so it's like they want me get out of here
00:00:24hi and welcome to close up with the hollywood reporter drama actors i'm your host lacy rose
00:00:29and i'm joined today by john boyega of small acts reggae jean page of bridgerton chris rock of fargo
00:00:38jonathan majors of lovecraft country and josh o'connor of the crown thank you all for being here
00:00:45um i am going to start with an icebreaker for all of you if a fan is coming at you what is he or she
00:00:53likely to say um i i got um i just get people who sort of like sort of smile and then don't really
00:01:01know where to pin me so they come up to me and they start saying like you're the guy and you're like
00:01:06yeah yeah and then they say go on what what is it and then it's like then you've got this awkward
00:01:12conversation where you've got to decide in a very split second um whether you're going to share your
00:01:19entire tv mine's not massive anyway but but still like it's uh it's a predicament um i usually don't
00:01:26and i just say i am the guy i'll take a photo with you and then i'll leave them but they basically they
00:01:31don't know who i am like i had that at the passport office once where someone kind of gave me like 10
00:01:37minutes of like i know you from the thing and i'm like which thing i'm like well if you don't know then
00:01:42clearly it's not that important so like i'm not that guy yeah i would say similar to that just kind
00:01:49of a look and they go and you kind of do it's a little head nod yeah you're not crazy you're not
00:01:56crazy normally a distant eye contact and then some reason we commit we connect in the mental realm and
00:02:02they understand i know they not keep it moving that's kind of the best though isn't it though like
00:02:07like you go like okay okay like you you kind of you kind of feel seen for uh for what you did not
00:02:13not for who you are you know which is which is kind of wicked you know that eye contact which is
00:02:18which is sweet yeah chris you're not you're uh i'm like literally embarrassed uh uh
00:02:30yeah i don't know i mean it's it's a lot of stuff
00:02:33everybody it's weird i'm not um i always say everybody doesn't recognize me right away but
00:02:41it's a minute they hear my voice they know exactly who i am i desperately want to pause
00:02:46you in the street and just yell tambourine oh man you know hey i mean i know i'm here for fargo but
00:02:54you know i'm a comedian and uh comedians don't have mystique
00:03:00you know what i mean comedians aren't singers like so when you when you like a comedian you kind
00:03:08of know everything about them that's a little freaky yeah yeah so you know it's how's your daughter
00:03:16hey i went through a divorce whatever it's like it's i don't know grown-ups jack city i don't know
00:03:24whatever it is that week or netflix or you know people let's talk about the work
00:03:32i'm talking about like celebrity it's like you know right i'm gonna start with with you this
00:03:38obviously isn't your first shonda rhymes shonda land project at what point did you sense this one
00:03:45was either going to land or landing differently i think going to land or landing differently from from
00:03:52the outset from the script uh the script was very very refreshing it was something that from the
00:03:57very beginning we talked about doing something with period drama that we hadn't done before
00:04:02about giving people images in period dramas they hadn't seen before about bringing an energy into it
00:04:07that people hadn't kind of really encountered and the thing about shonda and shonda land in particular
00:04:12is you can kind of have faith that there will be a social consciousness because they have this bond
00:04:18with the audience there's certain responsibilities they bear um quite they wear it on their sleeve
00:04:22but secondly that they bear that social responsibility with a sense of mischief that
00:04:26everyone expects from them and i don't think that we have a huge amount of mischief in british
00:04:32productions of period drama um in my experience and so those two things combining meant that i was
00:04:38fairly confident maybe i'm just an overconfident dude um that we were going to have something that
00:04:42people would be interested in um on that level at least and you just touched on you were giving
00:04:46something that people hadn't seen before i mean i think i think i read you say that there was a
00:04:51conversation early on this would be a very diverse cast but it would not be colorblind casting and
00:04:56that was important to sort of i believe everyone involved what were those conversations well yeah i
00:05:02mean the earliest conversations were about and they're the same conversations i've had since the
00:05:06beginning of my career because i had the same conversations um on roots which was a story
00:05:10predominantly about people of color it was about how do we go into the past and look at the images we
00:05:16already have and spotlight joy within that where are our opportunities to spotlight uh black joy
00:05:22essentially because otherwise you go into the past and you think that it's black folks uh job to suffer
00:05:26for a while carry a moral for white folks and then we all move on and finding opportunities for us to
00:05:32be splendid and spectacular and joyous and romantic um was kind of the theme of my involvement certainly from
00:05:41the very beginning um and was the same that year because sylvie came out at the same time and it
00:05:46was exactly the same conversations it was about where's our old school hollywood love story where's
00:05:50our kind of um folks just falling in love a little bit like um we saw a lot of filling in that history
00:05:56in small acts with um that uh john did where you have red white and blue which is about institutional
00:06:02problems and kind of microaggressions and brutal macroaggressions but also that's following lovers rock
00:06:07which was just black folks falling in love and having an amazing night at a party with like all
00:06:11those little interpersonal complications and you can't have one without the other because otherwise
00:06:16the story is unbalanced so i think a lot of it was about balancing out the picture and just giving
00:06:21three dimensions to people on screen who often have not been given that third dimension are those
00:06:26conversations others here have had before whether it was with producers whether it was with you know
00:06:33casting directors to think differently or representatives oh definitely definitely i think
00:06:38there's um there's a now open field for that kind of dialogue whether it's industry professionals or
00:06:43people you work with directors producers uh or your reps you know i think once people know that that's
00:06:50an important topic to discuss there's something that is implemented in all forms and all stages of
00:06:56the creative process so definitely for me it's come up so many times um and and it's been fruitful
00:07:02going back and forth between um uh people with sometimes different opinions different backgrounds
00:07:07because we all know entertainment people from all around the world um but to be able to discuss it
00:07:12and now it's not kind of like the the elephant in the room there isn't there doesn't always need
00:07:17to be that 40 day icebreaker um it's leading towards very very good conversations and that's why you're
00:07:24seeing a lot of these real specific creative visions now come to light much like lovecraft country
00:07:31um and bridgerton you're now seeing different perspective on this now um and that's because
00:07:36of some of these uh conversations yeah i i'd piggyback on that and say that a lot of a lot of the
00:07:42conversations i've had has been with other other artists right where we kind of discuss either at
00:07:48school or at a bar just walking down the street like what is it that we're doing what are we we're the
00:07:54raw material you know they're kind of become and that's writers directors actors etc you know what we end up
00:07:59doing how we cultivate our lifestyle we cultivate what it is to be a minority what it is to be in
00:08:05my case a young black man um same with john same with jay you know what it is what that is the more we
00:08:11get more comfortable and more more fearless in that and bringing that forth in our performances in
00:08:17our auditions in our conversations that becomes um the anecdote that energy gets dropped into any
00:08:23character we're playing and so we can kind of in many ways which i've seen a lot of brothers here
00:08:28kind of subvert anything that we become sensitive to like ah that's not quite that's not quite where
00:08:34we're going now right that's not we're we're more brave we have more bravery now to say nah nah nah bro
00:08:40we're going to do it like this um and that becomes addictive you know people begin to get into it i mean
00:08:46there's there's great productions being made as john was saying you know with that type of energy with that
00:08:51thrust so yeah josh i wanted to ask you i've heard you say the sort of interesting thing to you about
00:08:59playing charles was not so much the idea of playing a public figure but rather the sort of exploration of
00:09:06masculinity and the sort of fragility of of masculinity which i think is something you guys all sort of
00:09:11explore uh through uh through your work what did that what does that mean to you and what do you
00:09:17feel like you've learned in in the process of playing this guy yeah i mean the sort of initial um
00:09:26i mean in terms of like his other main qualities i.e being royal um so i've never really been that
00:09:33that interested in in the royal family and and i mean i'm a i've never hidden that i'm a republican
00:09:40and i mean that in the kind of british political sense i.e um anti-monarchy but i actually think
00:09:46what was really funny was that i sort of as i've got to know this character and obviously i don't know
00:09:51the real charles but the character of charles i believe probably is a bit of a republican himself like
00:09:57i think they're born into this extraordinary um pressure and can't fulfill their dreams
00:10:05and can't um you know can't follow any hobbies like we can and can't you know go out in public
00:10:11and do what they want like we can um and so i think it's like that as a kind of concept to me
00:10:17you know i think from the outset starting out with this this feeling of like not animosity but i
00:10:23suppose um i guess naivety about who this person person sort of is and then and then the masculinity
00:10:31thing i think that's just sort of it kind of comes back to me quite a lot where people just say um
00:10:36oh and josh you do all the like you're interested in like masculinity and fragility of masculinity it's
00:10:41like well i know i feel like maybe i'm just a fragile masculine i don't know like i think i i just
00:10:46think as sort of as you know as um as men i think we are having the mirror shown up in front of us and
00:10:54we're having to assess and reassess like uh uh some of the misogyny that's been in society for many
00:11:01generations and i think as a generation i feel like we've i'm very proud of you know the work that
00:11:07we're making and the and the questions we're asking ourselves and i suppose in a sim you know i suppose
00:11:14we're we're just trying to offer or i feel like i'm trying to offer a kind of an alternative and
00:11:21and so when you look at someone like charles i was really privileged to play him at a very
00:11:26at two very different stages in his life one where he's grappling with the fact that he's
00:11:31you know a young man having to wait for his mother to die in order for his life to take meaning
00:11:36um and then later on a slightly older guy who's married someone he doesn't love and unable to
00:11:43marry the woman he does love and he's still waiting for his mom to die so it's kind of this um
00:11:50major kind of conflict so um i don't know i don't think that's answered your question but that's just
00:11:57a statement i think it absolutely actually did answer the question i'm also curious you you didn't
00:12:02come into this as somebody who was particularly interested in the royal family there's nonetheless
00:12:07been a tremendous amount of continued ongoing sort of press around the family um certainly here in
00:12:14the united states everyone watched uh the sort of oprah interview with harry and megan there's there's been
00:12:20others i'm curious do you consume media about uh the royal family as josh o'connor or as the guy who's
00:12:30played charles and are you defensive of charles uh and have sort of empathy for charles as you watch
00:12:37and read i suppose i do feel defensive in a certain way i guess but i'm first of all i'm really i'm
00:12:43like the worst person to talk about um like the megan interview i i didn't watch it and i don't think i
00:12:50will watch it because why sorry curious why like what i don't know i don't know like i suppose if
00:12:59i thought about it deeply i guess i could understand why they share publicly because they've lived their
00:13:04life in public um and also and i'm from megan's point of view i mean you know it's right that she
00:13:09has a voice and how she's been treated which has been horrific so in that sense you know i know a bit
00:13:14about that um but really i mean like i am the worst person so like you know any conversation
00:13:20about do you what do you think about what charles said last week i'm like guys i have no idea i don't
00:13:26know so i so i feel like i mean i feel sympathy in so far as as a concept philosophically i feel
00:13:32sympathy for anyone who's been put into a position uh purely from birth you know birthright as opposed to
00:13:41via choice chris i'm gonna i'm gonna turn to you um first you get this call that that noah holly wants
00:13:48to meet with you your immediate responses is not oh he wants to do a season with farga up you know
00:13:56a season of farga with me why not what what goes through your head when you get that sort of call
00:14:01and why isn't it this guy wants to meet with me about doing a television show um i mean you know i
00:14:08i loved i watched the first three seasons of fargo it's actually even one of my favorite movies
00:14:15and um i don't know i didn't i it didn't occur to me that he wanted me in his show i mean maybe
00:14:22you know i even like legion um you know a lot i don't know it just didn't you know
00:14:28are you not getting had you not been getting those types of calls i'm getting calls but i mean
00:14:38you know it's a big job and sometimes you can respect something so much you don't even want to
00:14:44be a part of it uh-huh uh-huh i remember when i was uh years ago when i was on uh i had my own show
00:14:50on hbo it was at the height of the sopranos and i got a couple of offers to be on the sopranos it's like
00:14:57i like it too much i don't know i don't want to spoil it he's wicked enough so it's like they
00:15:03want me get out of here uh so i wasn't even thinking about it i thought he wanted me to like
00:15:07host his wife's charity event or something uh but i i was such a fan i took the meeting anyway and then
00:15:13he kind of presents me with this offer you know and i was like i took it sight on you know without
00:15:20even seeing a script it was like whatever you want me to do i'm down like i because i'd seen it
00:15:28i'd seen it and i also you know i don't want to make it a race thing but i saw how he handled uh
00:15:34bokeem woodbine like uh two seasons earlier you know what i mean so because sometimes you just don't
00:15:42know sometimes people do like amazing work and then when they handle black people it's horrible but with
00:15:49him i saw the you know how he handled bokeem and i was like okay i i can totally be in your hands
00:15:55can you stand on that a little bit i mean i i've heard you say a version of of that before but but
00:15:59what is what has that meant to you in the past and and what did you know that was going to mean for you
00:16:07in this yeah you know i mean some some directors are you know there's some guys that can't handle women
00:16:15you know i mean like you know just like plenty so so uh it was nice to like see you know bokeem's uh
00:16:27performance in fargo a bokeem was amazing it's kind of one of the all-time underrated performances
00:16:38in the history of acting like like i'm like it's that bokeem is that good like it's it's val kim kilmer
00:16:49in tombstone good you know what i mean like highest highest level so you know once you see that you go
00:16:57okay this guy has no problem putting himself in that character's shoes you know like uh you know i
00:17:08write right so when you hand a studio a script or a production entity a script what you notice a lot of
00:17:18times is everyone gives you notes of the character that they most identify with so the women in the room
00:17:28give you notes about the women the underlings in the room give you the notes about the underlings
00:17:35and the head guy gives you the notes about the lead they don't even realize they're doing this
00:17:44now the problem is in a lot of movies that i've noticed in a lot of in on the production side is
00:17:53some people have a hard time imagining they're black
00:17:56so there's no notes on the lead black or if the lead girl is black there's no notes from the white
00:18:06women you know what i mean like because they couldn't step into it
00:18:12so noah had no problem being bokeem that's why it's written so well
00:18:19you know what i mean so when you write a good character you have to be the character you have to
00:18:26like jump in their body for a period of time a lot of you are nodding uh can you relate is this uh
00:18:37something you've you've experienced too for any of you i've never heard it articulated like that so
00:18:42it was it's just interesting to hear what were you gonna say jonathan oh it's deep because i go
00:18:51it's a matter of empathy it's a matter of uh life experience a matter of creativity you know when
00:18:59i mean to be the head of a institution requires one to have so much empathy right and to have so much
00:19:06life experience right to actually uh propel the programs that they're putting out into the world
00:19:12um forward and for them to really be fully human and it's such a strange experience for i would say
00:19:20uh minorities um and again not to make it a race thing but just any minority right it's
00:19:26i view it as like a bit of unfortunate a bit of a bit of a ladder right a bit of a pyramid you know and
00:19:34if you're born as josh was saying like into a certain circumstance that you cannot escape
00:19:39be it celebrity be it poverty be it um whatever it is right in order to in order to survive in order
00:19:47to accomplish a certain uh level of of existence you have to climb right i don't mean this in the
00:19:55ambitious way i mean it's in like you have to educate yourself you have to remove yourself from
00:20:01the ditch that you're born into right that's that's what education means right and in doing so you pass
00:20:07other not people but other experiences and then you have empathy for those experiences right you load it
00:20:14up right it's interesting that the um as brother chris was saying the the executive sometimes never did
00:20:24decline right so they have a hard time trying to understand what that is you know and it was nice
00:20:32it was nice for me to hear chris say that because i go oh right because i go i go oh they're just nervous
00:20:37they just get a little scared you know talk about you know the sister or the brother or the woman you
00:20:41you know in the climate that we're living in you know like let's let let's let the blood some of it
00:20:45is you know what i mean you know what i mean so it's like i mean i mean he's the og i mean chris is
00:20:52og on you know with us so i go like yeah i mean if you say it then it's i'm with it you know i'm with
00:20:56i'm with jonathan 100 on that because i think the key is empathy um because i've always before i came
00:21:02into the industry i was just like it's about getting more like some folks aren't good at writing or
00:21:07or directing or handling black characters some folks are good at writing or directing or handling
00:21:11female characters or disabled characters or anything outside their experience but i've always
00:21:14seen that as well we are an empathy bridge when you're talking about embodying experiences like
00:21:20that's what actors do like you along the way you were saying that latter and a lot of the time the
00:21:25people you meet are through culture they're through books they're through tv shows you kind of put yourself
00:21:30in people's shoes by kind of living vicariously through the people in this room a lot of the time
00:21:35you know that's a lot of how i think we build up empathy for the world around us so i think that
00:21:42building up more and more leads from groups that are not normally seen as the protagonist because
00:21:48you put yourself in the protagonist's shoe if that executive at the top of the studio had seen
00:21:53more stories with all the people that they don't relate to they may be able to relate to them better
00:21:58particularly if those stories are of a higher quality and that's the kind of responsibility that i think
00:22:02culture makers whether that's actors directors writers or whoever else have as a very real
00:22:07responsibility in terms of our contribution to the rest of the world uh this is this is a frivolous
00:22:13career we play make believe for a living but what we do do that is of some value hopefully is we help
00:22:18with that empathy gap if we all do our job right i hope that's that's that's the lie i tell myself anyway
00:22:24i know i i think there's a lot of power in being able to sort of see these uh things that are less
00:22:30less familiar on screen john i want to turn to you in speaking about small acts you have you've said
00:22:37different version of this but i'm quoting you here for the first time in my acting career in a long
00:22:41time i looked at my art that i really do love and i said i missed you and it's good to be here
00:22:47i mean i think it's clear that you're drawing a sort of contrast with your blockbuster work and i want
00:22:53to sort of hone in on that if you'll allow it i guess i'm curious you know how much pressure is there to
00:22:59stay in that sort of blockbuster lane once you've made it in uh and and where does that pressure
00:23:06come from is is that self-inflicted is that the sort of industry and um telling you that's the the
00:23:13path you you stay on talk to me a little bit about that um i don't know i don't know if it's
00:23:18necessarily a pressure i think it's definitely a choice that you eventually have to make um i don't
00:23:24know that i've always just wanted to be in things that i enjoy watching and sometimes they're low
00:23:30budget sometimes they're they're more character based um and sometimes they're blockbusters so i
00:23:36don't necessarily feel like there's a pressure uh to choose a necessary path but i do think while
00:23:42you're working on a studio movie it takes up so much of your year um that when you're done all you
00:23:47want to do is rest most times when you're working on a studio film you're not gonna have the energy
00:23:54power you know the same kind of caliber films on in an indie or a drama uh because of the the time
00:24:01and with that you just miss being a character you miss being someone different with something like
00:24:07star wars you're playing one character that evolves but he's still that one guy um and and then on a
00:24:13career front still only shows one side of what you could potentially do whereas when you have the um
00:24:21the time you know to to to pick and choose maybe a film that would last four months or three months
00:24:28you can find more nuance and character and also show um a kind of versatility so that's what i meant by
00:24:35kind of coming out of the studio system not in a sense of a distaste but more of its nature i mean there's
00:24:41cgi visual effects training then a marketing campaign all that kind of stuff like bruv like sometimes i just
00:24:48want to chill in it so it's a it comes to a point when it's it's plain sailing um when you're put in
00:24:54a position where you have a choice where it's like okay this director is doing this you know you know
00:25:00eight eight to ten million indie would love you for this character you you get a chance to really bite
00:25:08into something more meaty and this is what kind of small acts done for me because steve came to me at a
00:25:12time where i was making a choice on what i was going to do um now being done with the whole um
00:25:17star wars um train he said and i'm gonna quote him here but he said that he saw your experiences
00:25:25on the star wars films and and your characters sort of a black man in law enforcement as parallels
00:25:32and again quoting him john is the golden boy who had the situation to be an amazing franchise
00:25:36leroy logan passes all the tests and is set up to be the poster boy for encouraging other black policemen
00:25:42but when he's there the carpet gets pulled out from under his feet uh i'm curious had you drawn
00:25:47the same parallels yourself and if so what were you sort of drawn from yeah not in the moment because
00:25:55in the moment you're still a bit pissed off when time went on and we start to do the pr for small acts
00:26:00and i heard this same quote i was like that's actually very bloody freaking weird um and that's
00:26:07testament to steve's mind right and how he unpacks certain situations but but in the moment honestly
00:26:13not because your your mind is you know split in so many different directions so much decisions to make
00:26:18and sometimes so much voices so you know um you're just trying to stay balanced in the moment but but
00:26:23when i heard that later down the line i was like yeah that sounds that's crazy jonathan uh the question is
00:26:29is for you which is this is a character that goes to some really really dark places um what happens
00:26:37when a director yells cut do do you leave this character on set or does he inevitably come home
00:26:43with you and and how do you sort of shed that oh it's deep uh it's like it's kind of like for me
00:26:51it's such a uh and i wonder what it is for the rest of the fellas you know a bit of a journeyman you know
00:27:00as john was saying how do you go from job to job you know and stay fulfilled and my way of of cracking
00:27:07that is is it's not really it's not i don't really view it as work or a job or action or cut you know it's
00:27:14a bit of a you know everyone everyone's here for a reason you know when you do something for a reason
00:27:20for a little bit of time and for the time being this is what i'm doing and i take the lessons in it
00:27:27and i believe that a character will come to you or a character will find parts of you to attach to
00:27:34for a reason and the discipline is to learn the lesson Atticus is there to teach me a lesson
00:27:42you know and that lesson will make me a better human being making a better father making a better
00:27:47uh citizen make me a better uh man you know we'll do all those things like that are human
00:27:53and so it's kind of it's like building a relationship you know when they say cut what
00:27:59you just you're in a spat with you're in a domestic right and your lady says okay we're done now
00:28:07right cut and you leave the house no you've got to stay in it you know you stay in it you deal with
00:28:11it you know your kid is crying you know you can't say cut you know the lesson continues you know and
00:28:17so yeah and there is also the part the brain that goes all right that's over now you know it's over
00:28:23now you've done it it's still in you but it's over now you know and when they say cut it just kind of
00:28:29it just kind of falls away for me it just kind of falls away um but the remnants of it are still there
00:28:35you know and that's the gift of it that's what lovecraft gave that's what every role gives um
00:28:43yeah so i do carry it home also take it to the park you know one of those i'm curious chris for
00:28:51you you're in these dramatic roles now and and yet you are one of the funniest people on the planet
00:28:58when you're in these sort of darker spaces and they yell cut do people expect you to be the funny guy on
00:29:04set and and how do you stay in who you are trying to sort of be and yet be that to the other people
00:29:14uh you know in your production um i don't know i mean i don't have a hard time um staying in character
00:29:23if that's what you're asking um and i think a lot most like especially with fargo
00:29:34uh uh with the bad guys there's there's an undercurrent of humor in them you know what i mean
00:29:40like um like uh de niro and the untouchables is kind of funny wicked you know uh you know i mean like
00:29:51jack nicholson in the departed is kind of you know what i mean it denzel in denzel in training day
00:29:59is hilarious you know what i mean like so i don't think you turn that guy off
00:30:09i have to make sure he's um measured because you can go too far and lose the edge you know what i mean
00:30:18like like who the hell's funnier than joe pesci and goodfellas you know what i mean but at the same
00:30:24time he's terrifying so yeah i just have to measure that out um yeah i'm just yeah as far as on the
00:30:33set i kind of you know we're in a new day there's there's no funny guy on the set anymore just shut the
00:30:39hell up go to your trailer no no and probably quite accurate yes so i don't yeah i used to be a very
00:30:47funny guy on the set and have the whole set rolling and i have gotten the memo i shut the
00:30:54fuck up and i go to my trailer that's amazing um all right i'm i'm gonna stay on the sort of
00:31:01lighter train for a second reggae i've heard you uh in interviews talk about sending a lot of warning
00:31:09texts i think flashing red light emojis uh to your family in you know your your family's sort of
00:31:17whatsapp uh groups to sort of make sure they were sufficiently prepared for what they were going to
00:31:23see i guess my first question is were they sufficiently prepared for for what they saw i know i'm sufficiently
00:31:29prepared i wasn't sufficiently prepared and i was there um uh there was i think people were grateful for
00:31:36the intensity of the romantic aspect of bridgerton um i'm not sure how grateful i was to watch it
00:31:43for myself it was uh um but i'm sure that that's what people were looking for they were looking to
00:31:48be overwhelmed um my family don't want to be overwhelmed by my backside specifically too often
00:31:54they'll take it on this occasion uh because everyone seems to be terribly happy on this count
00:32:00but i i'm curious sort of for all of you like how do your families factor into your choices you know
00:32:11what they may think about what they're going to to see do they factor in i mean jonathan i remember
00:32:17hearing you talk a bit about you know one of your your first roles or maybe it was your first role in
00:32:23when we rise and and your mom is a pastor i believe and and was getting some blowback can you
00:32:29sort of speak to what those conversations with family can be and if they do factor in yeah i'll
00:32:36speak to that briefly um so um i i i was blessed enough to be in a show called when we rise it's
00:32:45the first job i got i was uh in graduate school i'm just coming out um and i played this beautiful
00:32:52fellow named ken jones who um this past this past year um rest his soul um and i guess the crux of
00:33:01the story is he was a gay rights activist and my mother is a pastor um uh i was raised in the church
00:33:10we all were and my mother never had any issue with me being an actor uh however she was always concerned
00:33:17about spirits and the the the uh vulnerability that i would potentially put myself in you know her
00:33:26knowing her son and and how how i work and she you know christian you know the the that book says some
00:33:36crazy around that things i don't necessarily agree with things i do not agree with um especially in
00:33:42regards to uh one sexual preference um my mother being a pastor in texas where i'm from began to
00:33:50experience some uh as you said blowback uh just from uh the church from people around uh with the
00:33:56idea of it as the previews began to come out she began to see it and then they watched it and you know
00:34:03it's not that me and my mother fell out but we i did say mine you just need to watch it i can't i
00:34:07can't talk to you until you watch it um and i remember her calling me um i actually have a photo
00:34:14of like my entire you know band of my family watching it and uh my mother called me and and
00:34:21she said you know son i i didn't i didn't know you know like i love i love it you know oh you loved it
00:34:29you loved it huh okay cool um and just and just
00:34:35me but it it did say like
00:34:39what we do as a living the art we make the choices i pick as an artist that's the hardest
00:34:45audience that was the hardest audience right there for that character for that role a very stern southern
00:34:53black preacher woman to see her son her eldest southern son play something that she religiously
00:35:02did not understand and then for us to to give light to that through the show and for her to then
00:35:07understand it that was that was a blessing for me you know that was a gift and because it was the
00:35:12first thing um it really allowed me to go i can go anywhere you know bring the humanity to it you know
00:35:19just tell just tell the truth right tell the truth it's always i say this i say this all the
00:35:24times i said this in michigan times it's always for the homes right in the cheat sheet is everybody's
00:35:29the home right somebody's gonna watch that and go i know that brother you know i mean i know that man
00:35:36i know that story right and that is your tucalan that's the ideal form that's what we're shooting
00:35:41to do and when you do that as an artist if you strive to do that the try is all that matters
00:35:46that happens to people that conversion happens that catharsis happens um or has the potential to
00:35:53happen i love that does anyone else's family uh factor in as you're making choices you know what
00:35:59they think my dad's actually a preacher as well um but i guess you don't care man like you just
00:36:07you don't know you don't i think you know when things have developed for him it's just um he puts
00:36:13himself in a position of student because um a nigerian guy coming from nigeria moving his family
00:36:20over to the uk to start his life um and then your son says he wants to be an actor for him in the
00:36:25paradigm of finances you know building your own generational wealth having your own stability
00:36:31that just does not um compute but if it makes you happy you know kind of you know do your thing and
00:36:36if you're staying out of trouble but i guess as as as there's more of an understanding now of of
00:36:42of the position that you're putting when especially when you're telling stories that have real uh
00:36:48intricate themes especially to our social life and all that kind of stuff he that's where he engages
00:36:53he's kind of like he he feels like it's a it's a journey for the individual that picks nuanced roles
00:36:59um and in which you're able to you know be these different people be in these different
00:37:03circumstances learn new things and i guess that's the element that he's starting to catch up on
00:37:08because you know even when i got star wars my guy like i don't know what that is you know star wars
00:37:12like they from nigeria they like nollywood films that they like they like films like like chris said
00:37:19about you know everybody kind of giving the notes about who they are like my mom and dad will see
00:37:24sir vestal stallone or uh robert de niro in a movie and won't they they won't react but let them see
00:37:31you know mr bing pe or femi that's when they're gonna get real happy so it's kind of like teaching
00:37:37them hollywood teaching them um the way the way this works it's been so interesting but there's stuff
00:37:43that i don't want to change like i like the fact that when they get on the red carpet they get cold
00:37:48and they're like john i want to go inside i just love that i don't want to change so you know
00:37:54i love that i love it rege i want to go back to you for a second because there was there was
00:38:02a sense of of discomfort when it seemed on your face as you're sort of talking about this and i
00:38:07feel like you know you just hosted snl which is incredible and they sort of it was quite good
00:38:15thank you yeah yeah it was dope chris is saying it's quite good too and um but i you leaned into
00:38:24this idea of like oh you know this this brooding sex symbol um idea that hollywood latches onto and
00:38:31i feel like we so often sort of ask women and we so rarely ask men like what's your comfort level
00:38:38with that status and all that comes with it and do you feel like you want to sort of scream to
00:38:44hollywood like and and and people far beyond like i'm a trained actor i can do more than that
00:38:52i don't i don't think i need to scream because hopefully i can do that in the work um because
00:38:56i wanted to balance a slightly lascivious uh angle of the last question with the fact that there is a
00:39:01responsibility to my family that isn't just the red lights on the sex scenes i also kind of think that
00:39:06i owed them that side of things because i know that for instance my brother finds it incredibly
00:39:11hard to watch roots like he can't do it and i need to look after my family in the kind of more
00:39:16traumatizing work as much as there is in looking after them in kind of when they're going to have a
00:39:21couple of blushes but i thought that i owed them that trauma for putting them through the previous
00:39:27trauma at the very least you know there's always a conversation with the people you love watching you go
00:39:32through um these empathy bridges we're talking about these very very far removed experiences that
00:39:37are massive and then i kind of keep myself honest by imagining the rest of the audience as my family
00:39:43because i owe them balance in that experience what i was talking about earlier with um the kind of range
00:39:48of stuff in small acts there's a balance to be had there was a a personal circle that got completed for
00:39:56me on bridgerson because i remember that scene in particular that my brother can't watch records
00:40:00dragged away from my family i'm sold into bondage in the uk um and i get dragged away in this carriage
00:40:06and i was i never thought that i'd do many parts in the in the 19th century i thought you know that's
00:40:10not where i'm gonna play um and then i'm back in the 19th century of bridgerton and there was a moment
00:40:14on set where i'm rolling down the street in this lord's carriage and i'm like oh shit i own this now
00:40:21and that's what i felt i owed my family at the other end of that circle i got dragged away in it last time
00:40:26i came back and this time i own the thing and there's something about keeping that balance in
00:40:33the work which hopefully will mean i don't have to shout to hollywood i don't have to shout to anyone
00:40:37because the work has enough balance and enough rage within it then that empathy gap will be bridged
00:40:44and people will be able to see the world through my eyes with more detail with more breadth which
00:40:49creates more opportunity not just for myself but for all the brothers coming up behind me and all the
00:40:53the sisters coming up behind me and everyone else in the industry everyone wins if you make the
00:40:58picture wider um which also includes having fun on snl do you know i mean it's it's everything is
00:41:04everything from different angles of the prison josh i want to turn to you you're you came on to the
00:41:10crown after the crown was already a sort of a huge thing so so you go in sort of eyes wide open about
00:41:16what this could be from an intention level uh your family perhaps doesn't so so what is how do you
00:41:22sort of prepare your world for what you're walking into and how does it sort of change your trajectory
00:41:30um yeah it's like i guess it's kind of uh yeah you get to know i mean we're all sort of around uh
00:41:38those actors i knew matt smith a little bit not very well and claire only a bit and and vanessa kirby's
00:41:45a mate of mine so seeing her sort of like go for it i mean you know like back in the uk vanessa's like a
00:41:52brilliant like was already a celebrated theatre actor and and we'd seen her on on stage and done
00:41:58done bits of tv but to me it was like my family and and myself and my friends and people around me
00:42:06it was less about like oh you know your life's going to change um and more about like just being
00:42:12cautious and supportive and understanding of the of the times when you have to look out for each other i
00:42:19think we're really fortunate i talked about this recently and so tell me if it's this is boring
00:42:25but anyway i i was still i was sort of thinking about this recently because um last week was mental
00:42:29health awareness week and um and one of the things that i thought was i think i feel very fortunate
00:42:36about in our industry um is this there's this kind of sense of family which i've always felt and i don't
00:42:43know if everyone else feels this but i've always felt the sense of kind of support and um and i
00:42:49think it i i don't know where it comes i guess it's maybe exists in many industries but i think this is
00:42:54this sense of what we put ourselves through um when we explore character and um jonathan talked
00:43:00brilliantly about this earlier about this the idea of like locking onto empathy and locking onto
00:43:05understanding of a character um it's such a it's it's actually a very trickle a tricky sort of um mental
00:43:12flex and and so i think having a support network and having a group of people colleagues and and
00:43:19friends and family that can support you when you kind of come from those those points and that goes
00:43:23along with playing characters but also with everything that all the kind of trimmings that go along with
00:43:28being an actor and being in the public eye and and so um and so i suppose what i'm saying here
00:43:35is i feel very lucky i feel very lucky to have you know these boys and and everyone else in our
00:43:41industry to kind of pick up the pieces when i'm having a mild breakdown you know john i mean pegging
00:43:47off of this idea of pivoting from this idea of of mental health you know we john i'm sorry i say this to
00:43:54you um you know in the run-up to the show we saw you get up at a protest uh last spring i suppose it
00:44:04was now and you gave this unprompted incredibly powerful speech and at one point during it seemingly
00:44:13startled by your own candor although that may be me reading into it you acknowledged and again i'm
00:44:18going to quote you here look i don't know if i'm going to have a career after this with hindsight
00:44:24do you think doors close to you that day i think you do the most important thing which is to filter
00:44:31out allies and to filter out people who are of your energy um which in a sense i'm i'm very grateful for
00:44:38yes you know there are individuals in in powerful places that would respectfully take a distance and be
00:44:45like you know that boy's trouble something wrong with that kid but i think i think at the same time
00:44:51you know um uh the hindsight for me is to see is to see that as a god-given filter you know and not to
00:44:57see that necessarily as an an attack um because essentially you know to survive the times uh the
00:45:05way in which and we're speaking about mental health the way in which you see things perspective is that a
00:45:10ever is it needs to be an ever-changing model right you need to uh any change as you change and i think
00:45:16in that moment you know remember i didn't i didn't plan to speak we had been protesting a few hours
00:45:21prior to it happening and we were waiting for belly manjenga's family and you know the megaphone was in
00:45:26my hand and it was like oh shit i might as well say what's on my mind so in the moment as that and
00:45:31this is the first time i've ever protested i'll be honest like i'm not you know i don't come from no
00:45:36activist family and nothing like that it's the first time that to be honest i thought our first
00:45:40time for a lot of people during that time and especially it was the first time that we were
00:45:44accepting our current circumstance um given covid so i think a lot of emotions were pent up and and
00:45:50people took to the streets um but when you're in that moment and you know i'm seeing you know
00:45:56megaphone i've got the mandem around me people's going crazy there's helicopters in the air i can't lie
00:46:02yeah naturally i was just like oh shit that some exec is going to do that and be like pull that
00:46:07bitch pull him i'm like for me it's just like trying to understand the situation um and trying
00:46:14to maneuver that and in growing and retrospect and improvement i see that more as you you attract
00:46:21those who are who are good for you and and and and those who probably see that as a negative light
00:46:26will probably just just stay away and and that's something that i've grown to accept well i just i i
00:46:31i watched that and i remember it being on the knees and i thought it was i'm sure anyone who would
00:46:36have seen it thought it was like magic and john spoke so beautifully and eloquently but with like
00:46:42such fire which felt like we hadn't really had a voice kind of articulating this stuff in such a in
00:46:49such an impressive way and so i just remember thinking when he signed out for that i was like
00:46:56if there's anyone who's like doesn't want to work with john then john you do not want to work with that
00:47:00it's like after seeing that it's like everyone should be wanting to work with john it was so
00:47:04kind of it was so impressive i guess that's what you're saying john right it's this thing of like
00:47:08you know those people filter out if they don't want to work with you then they're probably not
00:47:12the right people to work with um yeah and that came in the in the package of steve anyway and then
00:47:17after what happened this happened steve came back and called me he's like oh john john we're doing
00:47:23reshoots i want to come back have additional scenes could be fantastic i go okay cool black brother you know i'll make
00:47:29i'll make my way there and when i came on set the vibe um and the scenes that he had now these new
00:47:34scenes that he wrote um and and and this this this new kind of direction he was pulling leeroy the
00:47:40layers he wanted to add to the episode i now had this fire you know i now had this new this new
00:47:46perspective um and and this new feeling and steve was just gonna like you know i'll give you the arena
00:47:52in in in order to display these emotions um and it aligns with what leroy is about as a character so
00:47:58it's perfect so it's kind of what like a way in which reality kind of like reflected on art and and
00:48:03i went back to do red white and blue like an additional scenes after that and and it kind of
00:48:09was like a full circle moment with with that whole that whole thing for for all of you if you can sort of
00:48:15complete the sentence i wish hollywood would cast me as a what i don't know i mean my favorite
00:48:23character ever and just movies is a cole house walker in ragtime so uh yeah some modern version
00:48:31of that if you guys haven't seen the great harold rollins in ragtime you should watch it it's the
00:48:37best character ever josh what would you love to do if only hollywood were offering it i feel like
00:48:44all the roles that i'm always like i'd love to have a go at that i think you have to be like in
00:48:48your 70s to do i don't know what i was like strange sort of obsession with i think i think i've always
00:48:54dreamt of actually like when i when i was auditioning for drama school no one at my school had ever like
00:48:59no one knew what drama school was right and it's uh like a i think it's i'm sure it's a different system
00:49:05here in the uk uh but but anyway when we were at school where i was like i want to go to drama school and
00:49:11i've done some reading up on it and you're supposed to uh pick one classical speech which is like from
00:49:16shakespeare and one modern speech which is like from a modern play and and my drama teacher and me
00:49:24didn't know what to pick and you're supposed to pick something that's like roughly your age i'm an 18
00:49:29i was 18 years old and i played leah i did a speech from leah and i did i did a speech from leah and i did a speech
00:49:39from an um an alan achebourne play where there's a guy who was in his 80s in a retirement home
00:49:46and that was what they're in my speeches and all the drama schools were like you are crazy like you're
00:49:51you're bizarre and i was like doing the walk um anyway i got into one but that is yeah so i guess
00:49:58like i would like like maybe like maybe gandalf like if the if it came along i don't know i don't know
00:50:09romeo i mean i mean guys i'm no no no the market for that gandalf prequel man
00:50:17i see origin story yeah what about you rayon oh man i don't know i i always uh try to avoid anything
00:50:26that i can already imagine i kind of i want the thing that i don't even know exists so i kind of
00:50:31my whole thing is like literally if i didn't even know that that thing existed that door existed
00:50:36that's the thing i want to do um so that's i'm gonna hold that and defend it with my life i don't
00:50:41want to start pinning down these ideas in my head because that's how i paint myself into a corner
00:50:44what do you make when when everyone starts saying i mean you're in a place where you you get famous for
00:50:49something and then all of a sudden it's bond the bond rumors start i don't know how many on this call
00:50:55have gotten been part of bond rumors i know reggae you have most recently it seems to be um here's
00:51:02the thing about i mean joshua relates this is like having played a public figure you become a resource
00:51:07for the press like you're like a natural mineral they just go mining for it and they just throw
00:51:11words and attach them to your name and it sells papers or it gets clicks it's got nothing to do
00:51:14with me it's got nothing to do with anything that's happened in any rooms or meetings or anything
00:51:19else it's literally just a thing for people to talk about so like it's flattering but it's just
00:51:25it's a game for folks to play in their spare time do you know what i mean um yes so like
00:51:30keep it open and it's cool it's much more fun to hear it from the outside to hear john just like
00:51:34throw out things like to hear um you know what john's good at this john should cast everyone in
00:51:39everything i love it yeah calling not just the producer and an actor like the world's best casting
00:51:44director we want back i watch john's hollywood jonathan what about you i'd like to play you know in
00:51:54the world we live in you know we can just kind of build it ourselves you know but but uh edwin scissorhands
00:52:00uh yeah i like i would maybe i would maybe give that a go i would maybe go okay yeah let's that or like um
00:52:08um like we do the biopic of a homo sapien like like like from like ever like from evolution or
00:52:18something or or or to play something like animal like like cgi a t-rex or something like like
00:52:25like like we're gonna go for it let's go for it everything else is i would imagine the inside
00:52:30of jonathan's head is literally like the opening to lovecraft there's just like a hundred different
00:52:34pop culture monsters flying around the place jackie robinson's fighting cthulhu right
00:52:42i'm trying to get on that bridget and money man most potent and reverence
00:52:47i'm trying to put myself forward to the bridget and i i need i need to wear them skin tights i need
00:52:55to be the new guy up in it i'm trying to i'm trying to do that i'll swap you you can get that star
00:53:01wars money you can have the bridget and money i'm just trying to switch now i'm trying to switch
00:53:09honestly something like that give me a horse man give me a horse and uh
00:53:12uh you know a love and all that you just brought up star wars and and you're also sort of your your
00:53:20advice um though said in in jest but not entirely of of having these two other folks on on here uh
00:53:29explore a you know a superhero of a franchise um you've been vocal about your experience in
00:53:39in the star wars franchise would you do anything differently knowing what you
00:53:45went through and also you're talking to you know some other folks who who are going to enter into
00:53:51these and have already entered into huge franchises uh with the world's attention any advice to them
00:53:58no i think i think the brothers that are on on the call now on on their way to to whatever they're
00:54:03going to get i think that you know the advice thing you know acting is so it's so unique to
00:54:08everybody's circumstance even the way you get in it's probably like five to six different stories um
00:54:13but for me is it my experience is is is my experience and and i like that at the time you know people
00:54:20like ray fisher and a few other people came out and spoke about their experiences um and i think that in
00:54:26itself will begin to affect change because now there isn't that elephant um in the room um also
00:54:32creatively right we now have to understand that in studio movies and franchises the characters that
00:54:38are upheld are given the best moments best moments are lucrative in the studio system so when we're
00:54:46seeing that these best moments and this and this development is is there's a disparity there that for
00:54:52that dialogue to happen without it being seen as a egotistical thing or something that's mainly
00:54:58just a career thing but something that is actually seen as okay let's let's share the creative juice
00:55:04um i think something like that will affect change in our industry for sure um and i don't you know
00:55:09these brothers don't need no bloody advice from me i think i think they're doing what i'm doing
00:55:15no but i i will i will say i would just speak to that just brother the brother like
00:55:18because you john because you did do what you did right you you did the job you did the work
00:55:26doing work you didn't spoke about the work about your processing work that didn't change the ecosystem
00:55:32for anybody coming in behind you you know that in and of itself is you know full circle you know the
00:55:39job of the artist you know i'm saying like like that experience changed your instrument and therefore
00:55:45changed the entire uh industry in a way that what you say that now we have the ball in a way
00:55:52and they understand you know sometimes coaches sometimes get out the way you know that's
00:55:58that's just i this is a thank you this is not really yeah i guess it is i guess it's like a hell
00:56:03yeah bro like thanks for speaking out on it and thanks for doing your thing you know um that's it
00:56:09exactly the same sentiment like i think you give more than you think you do like i've already taken
00:56:16a lot from you just in terms of how you carry yourself in public how you've spoken about your
00:56:20journey um and so even if you don't give it like person to person like seeing how you carry
00:56:26what you carried in that show how you interact with how the public's received that in various ways
00:56:31across the spectrum um even if you don't think that you're giving it specifically to us know that it's
00:56:36being received out here so like i think that spirit of generosity um in whatever different
00:56:41shapes it takes for everyone is definitely something that i've taken from you as well so
00:56:44like i'm just throwing some thank you c there love man i want to end by asking you what do you guys
00:56:49wish you knew at the beginning of of your careers knowing what you know now maybe it was to not buy
00:56:55the red corvette with their first snl check chris maybe it was maybe it was something else
00:57:00uh god no i had fun with that corner uh that guy had a ball
00:57:11um i don't know i mean your parents your parents were right in the sense that uh
00:57:20uh there's a lot of talented people and your character just as a person is gonna get you just
00:57:32as much work as you're talented as your talent and how you conduct yourself and how people feel about
00:57:41you like you ever have a friend that's a good friend but you wouldn't want him to date your sister
00:57:46whoo you know what i mean like oh man this guy's cool but i wouldn't want him to date my sister
00:57:54it's important that people kind of like you enough for you to date their sister
00:58:00to think you're not just a talented person but someone that's reliable someone that you know has
00:58:07integrity somebody that's you know maybe not an addict you know what i mean like
00:58:11that oh this guy like i like john so much he would be cool for my sister and if people feel that way
00:58:21about you you'll probably work a lot and did anyone i don't know what the sort of the equivalent of
00:58:27of the uh of the red corvette is but did anyone else purchase them purchase one with uh with your
00:58:35first check that's for game boys game boys that was it love it come on hey come on josh and man you
00:58:43lot just banked on the cash no you know the cash flow is in
00:58:48come on man i use honestly i guys honestly i my first paycheck was for two lines in doctor who
00:58:56and it was it covered my rent for one month and i was so excited who was the doctor at the time uh
00:59:04matt smith okay and um and and this is and it was i had two lines and it was at the beginning of the
00:59:11episode and then i was strangled to death and uh and my my entire my entire family my entire family
00:59:20gathered around like the whole lot of them gathered around one tv set to watch it
00:59:25and the the way it works in doctor who's you have like this little opening bit
00:59:28and then strangled dead and then the credits come up for the beginning of the episode
00:59:32and i go like so i wasn't watching it and i got this text from my mum going um you know like that
00:59:39happens and then this text from my mum going um really good so far looking forward to seeing more
00:59:45and then about 50 minutes later just a text going that was it wasn't it and then devastating
00:59:53they'd watch the entire episode they didn't even like doctor who anyway so my advice i was like
00:59:58i didn't have very much money so i spent it on rent what about the rest of you is there uh
01:00:03is there advice you would tell your your younger selves
01:00:09well i just um i was at a coffee shop with my with this with this random this angel guy this
01:00:15his brother named malcolm i just got to say his name he was so so beautiful give me a book
01:00:20and uh just sitting there and i have a habit of taking notes when people talk and and the fella's
01:00:26my age and uh he just said something where i went hmm that's i feel that and he said um
01:00:37if i know what's going to happen there's no excitement it was that simple you know there's no
01:00:44excitement and when you ask that question that's the first thing that came to mind where it's like
01:00:49that is i won't speak for anyone else but i'll speak for myself like that is the journey you know
01:00:54what i mean like like i haven't bought the corvette yet i haven't done that you know i haven't bought
01:00:59the game boards yet but i've done my version of it you know and and that's fun you know there's something
01:01:06to that you know and that that's the living of it you know so i wouldn't tell i wouldn't tell
01:01:11myself anything i would say you know just keep going bro no don't change a thing don't change
01:01:19it that was some superman right there you know that was some that was your cast
01:01:28i love it we're gonna end it there that was beautiful john is my agent
01:01:33you found another career for john today casting director yes give him a studio uh thank you all
01:01:44for for being here for being part of this conversation um it's uh it's been a special one
01:01:50so thank you the advice is be supportive be what everyone in this room was today because that makes
01:01:56everyone stronger that's that's the advice i have i noticed you get and i've been doing this a long
01:02:02time your fellow actors will give you more jobs at the end of the day than your reps
01:02:12just saying that and right now i'm thinking yeah i gotta get these brothers numbers man because like
01:02:16like i got three things that like you think you want to come over i yeah i've got more jobs
01:02:26yeah yeah yeah it's beautiful beautiful and know that when you're not supportive people talk about
01:02:34you oh thanks jack three months three months is way too much time to be around somebody you don't like
01:02:43this was great yeah yeah i could be with an asshole for a day but not for months
01:02:53well imagine it was a series oh no just assholes don't assholes are day players
01:03:02right we all just sitting around the church now service we all just sitting around in the church
01:03:07just meditate on that go hey good to meet everybody everybody all you guys do amazing work
01:03:20so yeah thank you my legend mate oh in truth i've been inspired by everyone in this room so genuinely
01:03:26thank you thank you for your work very much
01:03:36you
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