00:00Clearly the quest to make those who are rich, famous and above all influential pay over this affair continues
00:07and clearly Donald Trump forced to make an about face, a very abrupt change of attitude over the files
00:15and now signing them into what might be open reading but of course that remains to be seen.
00:21On this side of the Atlantic Ocean, Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor faces a hard decision.
00:27Should the disgraced former British prince volunteer to be interviewed and share what he does or doesn't know about Epstein and his crimes?
00:35And before we get the analysis from our guests, we express our thoughts and sympathies for Epstein's victims.
00:40Underage girls at the time, groomed and abused, in particular the late Virginia Roberts, a juve who died by suicide earlier this year.
00:47The posthumous memoir has shed fresh light on the whole affair.
00:50Let's bring in Ed Owens. Ed is a royal commentator, a historian and an author.
00:55His book is called After Elizabeth, Can the Monarchy Save Itself?
01:01There's the cover of your book, Ed.
01:03Come in and tell us, can the monarchy save itself?
01:05Clearly in terms of shedding, shall we say, Prince Andrew from his position,
01:11it was a chance to try to present a different face in the light of a really big scandal on both sides of the Atlantic.
01:18That's absolutely right.
01:23I think the king's decision to demote Andrew fully by removing both his princely title and many other titles alongside that was an attempt to put an end to the debacle,
01:34to the scandal that was surrounding Andrew, owing to his association with Jeffrey Epstein.
01:38And I think the king in acting decisively was very much putting, you know, the institution ahead of the family.
01:45Once upon a time, Prince Andrew was known as Randy Andy.
01:48It was all very tongue-in-cheek and fun, slap and tickle, tabloid fodder, that kind of thing.
01:52There was the affair with the actress Ku Stark, whose nude scene then led to an about-face in terms of whether he should or shouldn't go out with her.
01:58Basically, he's been a kind of fun figure, a jolly sort of knock-about kind of Punch-and-Duty style figure, I suppose, in many ways over the years.
02:06That has all changed now completely, and he's in between a rock and a hard place.
02:10I'm wondering, does anybody have any sympathy for him?
02:15I don't think they do.
02:16And unfortunately, you know, this has been an ongoing saga for the British monarchy.
02:20More than 10 years ago, the association between Andrew and Epstein was brought to light.
02:26The closeness of their relationship, their friendship.
02:29And ever since the BBC's Newsnight interview in 2019, I think there's been a lot more concern about the precise nature of that friendship.
02:39The, you know, the challenge now for Andrew is where does he go in terms of his role as a public figure?
02:46The monarchy are very keen that he sort of occupies the shadows, that he stays in the background and doesn't draw any more unnecessary limelight.
02:54But of course, with the potential release of the Epstein documents, the Epstein files, we could learn more about Andrew's relationship with the sex offender.
03:03I was going to ask you, Ed, why not give evidence to Congress?
03:07Because what more does he have to lose?
03:09I think what you just said, perhaps we don't actually know what more he's got to lose.
03:13There could be some more revelations.
03:15There could be.
03:16Certainly, it would be the quickest route, should Andrew testify or engage with the American authorities or even the British authorities, as politicians in the United Kingdom have urged him to do.
03:28That would be the quickest route potentially to some form of redemption.
03:32And yet, we have to assume that he's deeply uncomfortable about further revelations, further information coming to light, because he hasn't responded as of yet to the summons issued by Congress in the States.
03:44And one feels, you know, again, he'd be drawing himself back into the limelight.
03:50Not necessarily a good look for him personally, but also potentially a bad look for the British monarchy.
03:54So I'm sure, you know, behind the scenes, the members of the British royal family will be urging him to remain very much in the shadows on the side.
04:02Indeed, he can't be forced to testify because he's not an American citizen.
04:06So that could be one way out.
04:08But I think what you just hit upon there, Ed, is really important, because there could be that kind of road to redemption.
04:13If he comes clean, if he says, look, this happened, that happened, this didn't happen, that didn't happen, this is what I know, this is what I don't know.
04:21Do you think he'd have the courage to do that?
04:22Do you think if he did have the courage to do that, he would be allowed to do so?
04:25Because the royals have a habit of kind of putting up a bit of a wall, don't they?
04:31They do.
04:32And in the past, when things have gone wrong for the British royal family, they have tend to play ostrich and bury their heads in the sand and hope that problems go away.
04:41I think the problem of Andrew is so severe, the crisis and public image sort of difficulties that have been mounted against the British royal family as well.
04:55So severe that I think they want this to fade from public view as soon as possible.
05:00As I say, I think this would potentially be the quickest road to redemption for Andrew.
05:05But at the same time, you know, he probably has more to lose as a result of engagement with the authorities.
05:11Owing mainly to the fact that in revealing any further information, he could potentially be drawing other public figures into the limelight that don't want to be there, creating problems for them, creating problems for themselves.
05:22You know, he is a nightmare for the British royal family.
05:25He's occupied the headlines, in their opinion, for far too long.
05:29As I say, they want him to fade into the Mecca.
05:31Indeed.
05:32I've met Prince Charles twice just to shake hands.
05:34He wouldn't know who on earth I am at all, you know.
05:36But it was part and parcel of those meetings when he was doing things for the community good.
05:41And that is something that I think many people watching perhaps don't realise, that the British royal family do have many projects ongoing across the UK and beyond, which is trying to sort of give people a chance.
05:51And the Prince's Trust is very much part of that, which was started by Prince Charles to give him a vehicle to sort of put something into society.
05:58These good things that the British royal family do, I mean, that's one thing, but you can spend years building that up.
06:06And it's one headline from Prince Andrew, now Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, that can in many ways dilute that and wipe it away.
06:12So we come back to your book, Can the Monarchy Save Itself?
06:16Do you think from here that the monarchy can continue?
06:18Because some people are raising questions about its future.
06:21They are, and the British monarchy has never been so unpopular to judge by opinion polls alone.
06:31A significant drop in support, especially among a younger generation.
06:35But bigger questions being asked partly in connection with Andrew, because, of course, there was a lot of scrutiny of the way he paid for his home or the fact that he didn't pay for his home, Royal Lodge, during his stay there.
06:51A lot of bigger questions about the way the royal family is financed and the obscure nature, the opaque nature of the royal finances in general.
06:59And that has led to a lot of questioning, certainly in the UK newspapers, about the nature of this institution, the secretive nature, specifically of this institution.
07:09And I think that secrecy does pose a problem to the monarchy.
07:12I think Prince William, in particular, has made it clear in recent weeks and months that he intends to do things very differently on coming to the throne.
07:20I think it's been unfortunate for King Charles, owing to his cancer diagnosis, but also with the ongoing issues both with Harry and more recently with Andrew, that he hasn't really managed to leave his mark yet on this institution.
07:35He hasn't been able to move it forward into the future.
07:38But William has signalled clearly that he intends to do things differently.
07:41And I think the change that could come with King William IV could be the change that saves the monarchy.
07:47Ed Owens, we'll leave it there.
07:48There's so much more to talk about, but it is an extremely fascinating subject.
07:53I'm British, so it sort of means something stronger to me.
07:56But the British royal family abroad, I know here in France, has many people who are fascinated by what goes on inside and outside and around that institution.
08:06And I'm sure your book will provide a lot of insight for many people.
08:10Ed, thank you for joining us.
08:11Ed Owens, the author of After Elizabeth, Can the Monarchy Save Itself?
08:17Royal commentator, historian and author with his insight into the dilemma facing Andrew Mabat-Windsor about testifying over Jeffrey Epstein.
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