This special report examines the unearthing of a 'terror doctor module' in India, with raids and arrests taking place nationwide, including in Delhi, Pathankot, and Nuh. The discussion, featuring panelists Lt. Gen. Syed Ata Hasnain (Retd.), former Intelligence Bureau Special Director Yashovardhan Azad, Wisdom Foundation's Zeenat Shaukat Ali, and CLAWS Director Dr. Tara Kartha, explores the radicalisation of highly educated medical professionals. Lt. Gen. Hasnain (Retd.) states, 'What you are looking at is just the tip of the iceberg.' The panel delves into the gravity of the situation, where doctors are suspected of leading double lives, treating patients by day and allegedly plotting terror by night, raising questions about the scale of the network and the challenge of de-radicalisation.
00:00The question you're asking on the special broadcast is how widespread are the tentacles of this terror doctor modules?
00:06How widespread are these tentacles spread?
00:08Is India sitting on a ticking time bomb?
00:12Police are saying that some doctors have apparently either switched off their mobile phones or their mobile phones are not reachable and these doctors are untraced.
00:19Now should these doctors come forward and join investigations because of their alleged links with Dr. Muzammal, with Dr. Adil, with Dr. Umar Muhammad or Dr. Umar?
00:34We are still waiting for more clarity and the bigger questions.
00:37How does one de-radicalize highly educated medical professionals or engineers or others who masquerade, you know, who are amongst us morning, noon and night, but maybe moonlighting as terrorists.
00:54In Kashmir, there was this concept of hybrid terrorists.
00:57But are these those hybrid terrorists or they have now switched, gone across to being full-time terrorists only masquerading as doctors?
01:06These are some of the questions we're seeking answers to.
01:08Joining me on this India First special broadcast, our left-in general, Syed Atta Hasnain, former Kashmir Corps commander.
01:14He's worked very extensively on bringing youth back into the mainstream.
01:20Also with me is Yashavardhan Azad, former special director of India's Intelligence Bureau.
01:24Zeenat Shokhat Ali is the founder, director general of the World Institute of Islamic Studies for Peace and Dialogue.
01:31Dr. Tara Kartha is former director of India's National Security Council Secretariat.
01:36And General Hasnain, Mamoon cantonment, sir, in Pathankot is one of the biggest military bases in the country.
01:46An Alfala Hospital-linked doctor working as a senior surgeon in Pathankot, taken into custody,
01:53was at Alfala Hospital, is considered to be close to this network of doctors.
02:00What would you deduct from some of these arrests and detentions in searches and raids that are going on nationwide at this point of time?
02:09Karth, thank you.
02:11Firstly, let me start by saying I completely concur with you.
02:17What you're looking at is just the tip of the iceberg.
02:21As we go along, there's going to be much more which will get revealed.
02:25I mean, I say this from the angle that at the moment you're looking at northern India and in northern India, primarily Delhi, the Mewat area.
02:33You're looking at Pathankot and Jammu and Kashmir.
02:37I would say this issue will probably go deep south.
02:39You must remember that in 2019 you had terror blasts which took place in Sri Lanka on the Easter Day bombings,
02:48which were all linked to a huge module somewhere in southern India.
02:53We have not forgotten the various, the history of bombings which have taken place in Maharashtra, in central India.
03:01So this is a nationwide thing.
03:03Now, at the moment, it is centered because of what's happened in Delhi and because of the revelations starting from the posters at the Jama Masjid.
03:12Obviously, this whole thing is focused on JNK and Delhi.
03:15As to your question on Mamun, that's an important, well, at the moment I may not be able to confirm what exactly that would mean.
03:23But Mamun is a very important place.
03:26You see, Mamun is close to Kathwa also.
03:29Just remember, and this is the general area in which a lot of infiltration has been going on for the better part of the last one, two years.
03:38All the infiltration routes in Kashmir have been broadly under control.
03:43This is the area where closer to Punjab, where more and more infiltration routes have opened up.
03:48So if there are modules in which people are actually under control by going across and coming back,
03:55this is the place possibly where the focus needs to be.
03:58But as we go along, I'm sure much more is going to be revealed.
04:02Okay.
04:04Dr. Tara Kartha, your take on these arrests and the police, and this is of course at the level of sources right now,
04:13saying some doctors have switched off their mobile phones or, you know, their mobile phones are not reachable.
04:19They are neither at home nor at their workplaces.
04:22They are still trying to reach out to these doctors.
04:26Does that immediately raise the red flag?
04:29Because if doctors have been in touch with these elements, would they join investigation?
04:34Should they join investigation?
04:36Or you find nothing suspicious in this?
04:37See, if they had nothing to hide, they would not be switching off their mobiles and hiding, I mean, sort of moving out.
04:45They would come out and say, yeah, we know this guy, he did this, X, Y, Z.
04:49I mean, it's not that the whole entire Alphala University is under suspicion.
04:52They could have come forward.
04:54If they put it off, obviously there is a link.
04:56I mean, this is, I mean, though I entirely agree as usual with General Hassanen, but this is a far larger module than I have come across before.
05:07I have, I mean, this is a very unusual one with, like we said, with doctors and the sheer geographical, you know, we are going from Noo.
05:16By the way, Noo, I've always said there are, I said this last, I think, on your show, there are areas which are no-go areas for police.
05:24There are concentrated criminal activity.
05:26You always see, not always, most of the time, you see a criminal and terrorist activity going together.
05:32So I think going forward, we need to look at these areas which have been prone.
05:37You remember 23, what happened in Noo, where that attack, it's a terrible place.
05:43It's got all sorts of characters in it.
05:45So there's no wonder that they are able to get fertiliser also from that area, which is otherwise, like you said, is difficult to get hold of.
05:53You know, this is an area where cattle smuggling is rampant.
05:58It's the headquarters virtually of illegal cattle smuggling.
06:02It's the headquarters now, we're told of various criminal gangs that operate in Haryana and in Rajasthan.
06:08They carry out a crime and then come back into the protection of Noo.
06:12Mr. Yashavarda Nazad, this would be very alarming because for the security forces, for the police and not just the state police.
06:19Now, the National Investigation Agency, others, they should just crack down on these elements because the distinction or the difference that swing from illegal cattle smuggling to crimes to terror,
06:31it's just a very gradual process.
06:33It's almost 50 shades of crime and terror, sir.
06:36Well, it's true.
06:37Noo has come in the limelight for a number of reasons.
06:41In fact, the cybercrimes of Jamthada, the famous Jamthada, had actually shifted to Noo later.
06:48And there was a great recovery and seizure done by the local police.
06:52However, you know, the target here is the alfala.
06:55And, you know, remember, Gaurab, we were discussing this issue the other day, that why are the others just kept quiet?
07:04Because this module was developing for two years.
07:06These two rooms were the centers of activity.
07:09And besides, there was frantic activity, as you're saying, because the doctors are going, changing cars, bringing in ammonium nitrate.
07:16It's not possible that nobody, you know, saw it.
07:19Nobody saw it at the gate.
07:20Nobody saw it anywhere.
07:21So, obviously, they were not speaking.
07:24Now, if they were not speaking, either it is because of fear or because of complicity or because of silent kind of, you know, commission.
07:31That, yes, we know about it, but we sort of won't remember that the radicalized, educated lot thinks that it is more evolved.
07:40It is a more evolved Islamic kind of, you know, value-led life they are living.
07:45So, I think there is a lot to be found in it.
07:49And I'm glad that the security forces or the government is looking into that particular university.
07:55Now, the other very, very dangerous link which you have pointed out, and I hope, I just hope they are not linked together, is the ricin plot and this one.
08:05Because the ricin had some even more dangerous, you know, plans.
08:10And the plans were to mix, you know, this ricin with the Mandir Prashad.
08:17And you can imagine what result it would have been because ricin does not have an antidote.
08:21It just kills you.
08:23And something of this kind was used in London, I think, 2011 or something like that.
08:28Now, but the problem is that in this particular case, the way, because of the technical investigation, has revealed so many links, that this is, you know, horrifying.
08:40I think this is one of the most frightful modules that one has come across.
08:45And as you said, the important point is, is the race against time means that those people who have been named in a notebook, unless they are sort of, you know, caught early and interrogated to find out what exactly they were, they were performing as a part of the action plan, which was given by the Turkey Army.
09:09Should their names be put out in public domain, as of now, you know, we know some names, but we are not putting them out because the police are not putting them out.
09:18You know, Zeenat Shaukat Ali, should these names be put out in public domain for them to come forward, join investigations, or the police are trying to reach out to them?
09:27They may be untraced for now. Their phones may be unreachable for now.
09:31Their parents, their relatives, their kin, their friends should reach out to them and tell them to join investigations.
09:36Because I would find this very alarming, I am sure so would you, that by day they are treating people and by night they are plotting to kill them.
09:47I think you are quite right.
09:49It's a horrifying and absolutely deplorable acts that are taking place and yes, they should, they should volunteer, the name should be put up and people also should be given to understand that, you know, we appreciate their coming forward, you know, and we appreciate that they come forward and they give us and lead us to the truth.
10:12Because you see what happens because of a small, minuscule amount, a handful of bad doctors or bad, you know, people who are in education gives the entire, you know, it comes like a blanket.
10:26It should not come as a blanket for the whole community.
10:29You see, this is another fear that exists and people are afraid to some extent and they could be complicit as it has been pointed out, you know, or they could be, you know, conniving.
10:40But the point is this, that the point is that those people who can help and whose names are implicated should be contacted, should be put up and they should come forward, you know, and give all information because innocent people are being killed.
11:00And it is also very unfortunate, if you give me a minute to say that, you know, this is, yesterday we were discussing this two days ago, that in the name of religion, you see, when we are talking about these Muslim names, we are talking about a deemed university, you know, whose coordination fund movements, you know, who's progressive and guides in cases and indoctrination of such people.
11:27Is an extremely dangerous and very un-Islamic, please let me tell you, it is extremely un-Islamic simply because I'm quoting to you now what the Prophet Muhammad, may please be upon him, has said that he who knowingly lends support to tyranny
11:46is outside the pale of Islam, this is tabarani, and the worst form of tyranny is to support one's community in tyranny.
11:56You see, so you cannot support just because somebody from your community is doing something wrong, yet you support it.
12:01This is baihaki.
12:02And the other one that I'm going to quote is also from baihaki, which says that he who accompanies a wicked man in order to help him in his wicked ways and designs, knowing of his designs, ceases to be a believer.
12:19And yet this is happening, so you know, it's just that what you tell us is very different from perhaps what that Malvi Irfan told these doctors and somehow General Hasnain,
12:32that Malvi Irfan seems to have persuaded a large number or at least a number of these doctors who've now been taken into custody or some may be at large.
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