- 2 hours ago
This special report investigates the recent Red Fort blast, exploring the emergence of a 'white-collar' terror network involving radicalised professionals from the Kashmir Valley. The discussion, featuring former Army Chief General VP Malik, former Delhi Police Commissioner Neeraj Kumar, and former IPS officer Dr. Kiran Bedi, analyses the new security threat to India, the role of Pakistan, and potential intelligence failures. General VP Malik states, 'The policy is not made by Jaish-e-Mohammed or Lashkar-e-Taiba. The policy has been made by the head of the state, our virtual head of the state.' The panel delves into whether security agencies are equipped to handle this new challenge of home-grown, educated terrorists operating in sleeper cells across the country, radicalised through online platforms.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Okay, let's raise big questions on the show tonight.
00:04The Red Fort Blast, is it the outcome now of a white-collar terror network?
00:10Is the radicalization of professionals now posing a new threat to security agencies?
00:16Is the Delhi terror result also of a major security blast and who will be accountable for that?
00:22Is there a link between the Kashmir and Delhi, between the Kashmir Valley and the Delhi Blast?
00:28That's the questions I want to raise right at the top.
00:31We'll also put out unanswered questions in a moment.
00:34General VP Malik, former Army Chief joins me.
00:36Neeraj Kumar, former Commissioner of Police, Delhi.
00:39I'm also joined by Dr. Kiran Bedi, former IPS officer with us.
00:43We'll be joined in a moment by Soumya Avasti, a counterterrorism expert.
00:48Thank you all very much for joining us.
00:50I want to first come to each of you.
00:52And General Malik, as someone who's looked at these issues over the years,
00:58from your vantage position, do you get a sense that we are now seeing the emergence of a new form of terror in particular
01:05and the links that we are seeing between possibly doctors in the Kashmir Valley
01:12and indeed terror modules, sleeper cells?
01:15Yes, Radeep, good evening to you and to my panelists and those who are watching this program.
01:27But before that, you know, I want to tell you that after Operation Sindhuur, a lot of people asked me that after this is terrorism,
01:36the terror attacks are likely to be over and I said, no, at that time also, I said, no, they will continue.
01:44Why? Because cross-border terrorism is not a policy of Jayesh or Raskar-e-Taiba.
01:52It is a national policy of those people in uniform in Pakistan.
01:58And today they are headed by somebody who is emboldened, who he heads the whole organization.
02:07He had made himself field marshal.
02:11He's anti-Indian and he's anti-Hindu.
02:15And therefore, you are likely to see these things more, I think, in future.
02:19You're making a very serious, you're claiming that what happened in Delhi last night must be linked to Asim Munir
02:28becoming virtually the de facto head of Pakistan, field marshal, self-appointed in a way,
02:34taking over the country and his sort of anti-Hindu, anti-India rhetoric and the blasts that have taken place
02:43and also linking it to Operation Sindhuur. Am I correct, General?
02:47Yes, you are correct.
02:48And why I am saying is that let's not go through these one incident or two incidents.
02:53I'm talking of the policy.
02:55The policy is not made by Jayesh-e-Mohammed or Raskar-e-Taiba.
02:59The policy has been made by the head of the state, our virtual head of the state,
03:04who is, we all know, Field Marshal Asim Munir.
03:09And you know the kind of a person he is.
03:11And currently he stands emboldened.
03:14That also I would like to say here.
03:15But I just want to say this, if I may push you a little further, General, on that.
03:25You will recall that when Operation Sindhuur took place,
03:28the Prime Minister of the country said any act of terror will be treated as an act of war.
03:32Now, if this is established as a terror attack,
03:35and it seems to now clearly be heading that way with the NIA taking over,
03:39should we treat it as an act of war?
03:41And therefore, should the response be proportionate to what happened?
03:45How do you respond?
03:46Because you are on an escalatory ladder then, General.
03:48Look, the response has to be there.
03:52And I am sure it will be there.
03:54In fact, the Prime Minister has already mentioned that.
03:57But what kind of response, what level of response,
04:00I think it will have to be left to the people.
04:02And it is too early for us to predict that,
04:05because we still are investigating the whole issue.
04:08But if it is proved to be something which has been initiated
04:14at the behest of the Pakistan army and their ISI,
04:18then I think the response will have to be more serious.
04:22Now, I'm coming to your second part of the question.
04:25And that is, what has Redford terror attack exposed?
04:30I think it has exposed a new terror strategy and methodology.
04:34It has also raised some very disturbing facts and disturbing questions.
04:40And I think we need to look into that.
04:42The first is, as we said, that this has been done something,
04:48some people who are well-to-do, who are well-educated,
04:52who are white-collar professionals,
04:56and they have been indoctrinated, they have been radicalized.
04:59And they are not only in India, in Kashmir,
05:03but I think that they are also outside.
05:06So, it's a trans, within the nation,
05:08it is a transnational activity which is going on,
05:12which has been exposed.
05:14And this is, now we have to be more alert,
05:18we have to assert it as to what all has happened.
05:22There's a huge lot of work which has to be done
05:24by the investigating agencies.
05:26I'm just going to stop you, General,
05:29because you've raised many unanswered questions.
05:31I just want to take them to my other panelist,
05:33just for a moment, because I want to put those questions up.
05:36How did the car evade,
05:38because we have a former police commissioner of Delhi
05:41and a top cop with us,
05:42how did the car evade police checks
05:44when a search was on for this specific individual,
05:47is my first unanswered question.
05:50Was it a planned attack or a panic attack,
05:52as the investigators are now claiming?
05:56Were there inter-agency failures?
05:58Was there a larger terror plot brewing?
06:00Has the whole terror network been busted?
06:03Neeraj Kumar, why don't you take that first,
06:05because you worked as Delhi police commissioner.
06:07Is it impossible to patrol every corner,
06:10every moholla of a city sprawling like Delhi,
06:14particularly crowded areas like Chandni Chogh,
06:17even though there may be information
06:18that one of those involved in the module
06:22which was busted was on the run.
06:24Do you believe it's impossible to do that?
06:26Or do you believe there's a security lapse?
06:30Well, I don't think that it is a security lapse.
06:35Because unless the information or the intelligence
06:40is specific,
06:43saying what is the number of the car,
06:46where exactly it is likely to be seen, etc.,
06:51it is not possible to intercept it.
06:55However, there ought to have been a general alert.
07:00I'm not too sure whether it was there or not.
07:03I'm not too sure whether the kind of checking
07:06that was required was on at that point of time.
07:11But I want to emphasize one thing.
07:15It's all very easy to say that,
07:17well, we had alerted Delhi police
07:19that so-and-so would be visiting Delhi.
07:24Unless the information is specific,
07:27it is almost impossible to intercept a vehicle.
07:33in the crowded area where it was found.
07:37Kiran Bedi, you want to weigh in on that?
07:39Because there will be those who will say
07:40that here was a vehicle that was moving for three hours.
07:44Apparently, of course, as Neeraj Kumar says,
07:47specifics were not available of the vehicle.
07:50All that was known that a particular individual,
07:53Dr. Omar, had escaped from that terror module in Faridabad.
07:59Was that enough, you believe?
08:00Or do you believe it's impossible at one level
08:02to check every vehicle,
08:05especially in crowded areas?
08:07In this case, the information ought to have been a little more specific.
08:13Maybe the car number,
08:14maybe the car color,
08:16maybe the make of the color,
08:18make of the car.
08:19I think that kind of specificity
08:20will narrow down accountability.
08:22Then they could have checked all Hyundai cars,
08:25they could have checked all off-white cars,
08:28or they could have checked by numbers.
08:30I think that could have been said.
08:31If that had become more specific,
08:33you couldn't say,
08:35well, we somewhere,
08:36we did not do our homework well.
08:37So I think the information,
08:39you just cannot say we said it,
08:41and there's somebody on the move.
08:42Now, who?
08:43Which car?
08:44What number?
08:45I think that,
08:46I think needed to become more specific.
08:48But we must give full credit to the JNK police
08:50for having done such an amazing detection.
08:53But I want to say,
08:54there is a new trend here.
08:56I think it's this,
08:57why was this man,
08:59it's an unanswered question.
09:00Why did this man park for so long in Red Book?
09:03Why?
09:04Was he waiting for a signal?
09:06Was he waiting for an opportunity?
09:08Why?
09:08Why would somebody who knows
09:10he has ammunition in the dickey,
09:12he would wait and park,
09:14it says that,
09:15somewhere near the Zunari Masjid,
09:17somewhere there,
09:17which is not an insensitive place,
09:19but a sensitive place.
09:20But he parked for so long.
09:22Why did he drive out?
09:23Was he waiting for a message?
09:25And I also think that the,
09:26he was moving to pass on,
09:30this message,
09:31this ammunition to somewhere,
09:33somewhere ahead of Red Book,
09:35because it has got blasted while moving.
09:38So he is not stationing to blast it.
09:42He's moving.
09:43Now,
09:43in the moving,
09:44but he's moving.
09:45Now,
09:45why is he moving?
09:46And if he wants a crowd panic,
09:49then he could have gone into a Chandni chunk.
09:50So I think he was carrying this ammunition
09:53towards the Northwest Delhi
09:55and to probably some seeper cells to deliver,
09:59because after all day,
10:00he has left behind 2.9 tons of ammunition
10:04in his house.
10:05He's carrying only a little bit in his dickey.
10:07So he is probably carrying it.
10:09Why would he,
10:10as a doctor
10:11and as a leader of this group,
10:13who's probably made a lot of money out of it,
10:14because this cannot be moneyless.
10:16Made a lot of money out of it,
10:17I'm sure.
10:18This sleeper cell
10:19and this radicalized white collar crime
10:22is nothing but huge money amount.
10:24He's probably going somewhere.
10:26We need to know that.
10:27I think these are two things
10:28which are unanswered from us.
10:30That's a very important point you raise,
10:32because it was possible
10:33that this ammunition
10:34was going to be taken to another place
10:36within the national capital
10:38to cause an even bigger blast,
10:40given the kind of ammunition
10:41that he possessed.
10:43And did he panic is the question.
10:45But Soumya Awasthi,
10:46there is also the question
10:47that these are all those
10:48who are being arrested.
10:49A number of them are doctors.
10:51One of them a female doctor,
10:52two of them male,
10:53all from in and around Pulwama.
10:55Are we seeing,
10:57as we saw during the rise of Simi
10:59and the emergence of Simi
11:00in the early 2000s,
11:02professionals now white collar,
11:06perhaps becoming part
11:07of these terrorist sleeper cells.
11:09Is that a recent phenomenon?
11:10Or do you believe
11:11it's been building up for a while?
11:16Thank you, Rajdeep.
11:16So I think it's not
11:17a new phenomenon altogether.
11:19And this was very much
11:20part of the module
11:21which was used by Simi
11:22or we talk about
11:23Popular Front of India.
11:24They have all been
11:25focusing on diaspora
11:27or the people
11:28who are educated class
11:30engineers
11:30or political scientists.
11:32In fact,
11:33I remember interviewing
11:34one of the overground workers
11:36in Kashmir
11:37post-Pahalgaam attack
11:38and he was
11:39master's in political science.
11:42So it's not that
11:42the white collar jihadist
11:44is a new phenomenon.
11:45It's just that now
11:47more and more people
11:48are volunteering
11:49to join
11:49these terror groups.
11:51And that is
11:52a worrisome situation
11:53because if the educated
11:55is behaving in such a manner,
11:57it can cause havoc
11:58for any nation
11:59which is sheltering them.
12:01And this doesn't,
12:04it has no question,
12:06but yes,
12:06they are,
12:07the attack was more
12:08of a panic attack
12:09because the raids
12:11that were taken
12:12since morning,
12:13they were rattling out
12:15all the names
12:16which were connected
12:17to these perpetrators.
12:18And in that panic,
12:19I think he wanted to,
12:21as Kiran Ma'am highlighted,
12:23that it was more
12:24of a panic
12:24because he wanted
12:25to relocate
12:26before getting caught.
12:28And in that process,
12:29he detonated those,
12:31the blast took place.
12:33But Soumya,
12:34you're saying that
12:35these white collar professionals,
12:36this is not a post-operation
12:37Sindhu phenomenon.
12:39No.
12:39You're seeing this building
12:40in Kashmir Valley
12:41possibly over the last
12:42four or five years
12:43that we've seen this happen.
12:45And this could,
12:46in a sense,
12:46represent a new challenge
12:48because perhaps
12:50these are new sleeper cells
12:52without many of them
12:54having any history
12:55of being involved
12:55in previous terror activities.
12:57These are not
12:58cross-border terrorists.
12:59These are homegrown,
13:01which is another big challenge.
13:03Yes.
13:04That is true.
13:05And also,
13:05when you talk about
13:06radicalization,
13:07if you see what
13:08kind of sleeper,
13:09and the sleeper cells,
13:10in fact,
13:11when it was,
13:12this ceasefire happened,
13:14there was a lot of worry
13:15that now more and more
13:16sleeper cells
13:17will get activated
13:18while the drones
13:20were firing at each other
13:22in the border areas.
13:23And the sleeper cells
13:25were activated
13:26post-ceasefire itself.
13:28So it was not that
13:29when will it happen,
13:30it will happen or not,
13:32but it was more about
13:32when will it happen.
13:34So there was a bigger plan
13:35in the mines,
13:37but it had to be cut short
13:39and that's what we saw
13:40happening at the Red Fort.
13:42And yes,
13:42it is a matter of worry.
13:44online jihad course
13:45being launched
13:46by Jaisa Mohamad.
13:47One of the women,
13:49Shahina,
13:49who was also
13:50a member of the JEMs,
13:52apparently she was
13:53heading the women wing
13:55for India
13:55on behalf of JEMs.
13:58All these things
13:59do cause worry for us
14:01and social media
14:03has to be held responsible
14:05because,
14:06yeah.
14:07No,
14:07why is social media
14:09to be held responsible?
14:10Yeah,
14:13because nowadays
14:14more and more
14:14youth is getting,
14:16you know,
14:17mind is getting
14:18polluted
14:19by these
14:19untrue stories
14:21which are,
14:22you know,
14:23fabricated stories,
14:24fake videos.
14:25the activism
14:26that has come
14:28without having
14:30enough understanding
14:31of the background issue
14:32has also become
14:34a potent weapon
14:35in the hands
14:36of terrorist organizations
14:37that are using
14:38social media platforms
14:39to radicalize
14:40the people.
14:41so we don't need
14:42a field
14:43they are using
14:44naming applications,
14:45they are using
14:45the communication channels
14:47to radicalize
14:48and do propagandas.
14:50That makes it
14:51more dangerous,
14:52General Malik,
14:53you've got someone
14:54like Asim Munir
14:55as the field marshal
14:56in Pakistan,
14:57you've got someone
14:58who is determined
14:59in a way
14:59to use what
15:01Zulfikar Bhutto
15:02once said
15:02to bleed India
15:03with a thousand cuts,
15:04then you have
15:05this radicalization
15:06taking place,
15:07you've got the
15:08instability in Kashmir
15:09that continues to exist
15:11a sense of anger
15:13possibly frustration
15:14certainly among
15:15some youth
15:16continues.
15:17It is a potent mix
15:18isn't it?
15:19And that poses
15:20even more security
15:21challenges
15:21particularly as I said
15:23with these white-collar
15:24professionals emerging
15:25as part of these
15:26sleeper cells.
15:28No, I agree with you
15:29that today's security
15:30threat is much more
15:32particularly because
15:34of the leadership
15:35that we have
15:35in Pakistan
15:36and the kind of
15:37policies.
15:38You know Rajdeep
15:39I'm not very happy
15:41because our focus
15:42is too much
15:43while the investigation
15:44is going on
15:45but our focus
15:46is too much
15:46on these proxies.
15:49We are not
15:49looking at the people
15:50who are
15:51teaching,
15:53who are supporting,
15:54who are
15:55creating these proxies
15:57and we are not
15:58paying much attention
16:00to that part.
16:01After all
16:01it is the ISI
16:03which has created
16:04all these proxies
16:05and they are the ones
16:06who are funding them,
16:07they are giving them
16:08intelligence,
16:09they are giving them
16:10missions,
16:10what to do,
16:11where to do
16:12and all that
16:13which has been going on.
16:15So that is why
16:16I am saying that
16:17let's not look
16:17only at the short-term
16:19problem which is there
16:20of course
16:20which may increase
16:22but let us also
16:23look at the long-term
16:24problem.
16:25After all,
16:26how do we get
16:27hold of
16:28some policies,
16:30some strategies
16:31where we can target
16:33the people
16:33who are perpetrating,
16:35who are creating
16:36these missions
16:37for the proxies.
16:38So that is why
16:39I feel that
16:39our focus should
16:40not only be
16:41on Lashkar-e-Taiba
16:42or Jayesh and all,
16:45we should be looking
16:45at the ISI
16:47which is controlled
16:47by Pakistan now.
16:49You know,
16:50given what you are saying,
16:51Neeraj Kumar,
16:52how prepared
16:52are the police force
16:54honestly
16:54to be able to tackle
16:56these new challenges?
16:57It's one thing
16:58that the NIA
16:59claims to be
17:00a specialized
17:00anti-terror unit
17:02but you've got
17:03now the emergence
17:03of these new models.
17:05Credit to the
17:05Jammu and Kashmir police.
17:06Let's give them credit
17:07that they almost
17:08have busted
17:09that entire module.
17:10It could have been
17:10far worse.
17:12But given
17:12what we've seen,
17:14is that a big challenge?
17:15How prepared
17:16are the police
17:16across the country?
17:18It's not just
17:18Jammu and Kashmir
17:19but across the country
17:20to face this new challenge.
17:26You're on mute.
17:28You're on mute,
17:29Neeraj.
17:29You're on mute, sir.
17:30Yes, go ahead.
17:34I fully agree with you
17:37that this is
17:41a new challenge
17:42that we are facing
17:43of white-collar
17:45and what you call
17:46a white-collar terror.
17:48I'm not too sure
17:50whether it's
17:51a very apt description
17:54of this new phenomenon.
17:57But please
17:59do not forget
18:00that so far
18:02the Delhi police
18:03may have slipped up,
18:04slipped on,
18:05you know,
18:06not preventing
18:06this incident.
18:08But if you go
18:09by the record
18:09of the Delhi police
18:10in the past
18:11in dealing with crime,
18:13terrorist crime,
18:15it has done
18:15extremely well.
18:17And almost
18:18every incident
18:19in the past,
18:20whether it is
18:21the Parliament House
18:21attack,
18:22whether it is
18:23Delhi high port blast
18:27or whether it's
18:28the Red Port attack,
18:29you know,
18:30all these major
18:31terror incidents
18:32that have happened
18:33in Delhi
18:34have been solved.
18:36And they have been solved
18:37by the Delhi police,
18:38not by any external agency.
18:41So, okay.
18:42what I'm trying
18:44to say
18:45that even
18:47in the current
18:49investigation,
18:50the Delhi police
18:51is playing
18:52a very important role
18:53and rightly so
18:54because
18:55the blast
18:57has taken place
18:57in Delhi
18:58and it has
19:01interstate linkages.
19:03So, surely
19:04other states
19:05are also
19:06chipping in.
19:07No, I take
19:09your point, sir.
19:09I take your point.
19:10But the point
19:11I want to raise,
19:12Kiran Bedi,
19:13is quite simply
19:13this to conclude.
19:15Is that
19:15given the nature
19:17of challenges,
19:18the multiple challenges
19:19that you face,
19:20there are cyber threats
19:21now,
19:21there are threats
19:22coming through
19:23social media,
19:24there are groups
19:25now congregating
19:27through social media,
19:28do you believe
19:29that the police
19:30is equipped
19:30to challenge,
19:31to tackle
19:32these multiple challenges?
19:33The JNK police
19:34at least has its
19:35ear to the ground
19:35because many
19:36of these sleeper cells
19:37have links
19:38to the Kashmir Valley
19:39but across India,
19:41are we prepared
19:42to face these
19:43new challenges
19:44that might emerge?
19:45A quick answer.
19:47Yes, can.
19:48Provided they
19:49stay united,
19:50besides,
19:51if they stay
19:52collaborative,
19:53work as coalitions,
19:55work as regional
19:56police forces,
19:57not as one state,
19:58like we did.
19:59If JNK
20:00quickly informed
20:01Haryana,
20:01Haryana informed
20:02Delhi,
20:03but the best
20:04is the way
20:04the investigation
20:05is now so
20:06very unified.
20:07I think
20:07the way
20:08everybody is pulling,
20:09I think
20:10resources will
20:11get generated
20:11if they work
20:12as coalitions,
20:13a proper exchange
20:14of information
20:15and not be
20:16competitive
20:17in declaring
20:18who did what,
20:19but be coordinated.
20:20I think
20:21that's the solution,
20:22nothing else.
20:22Otherwise,
20:23the second thing
20:24is why
20:24because their
20:25sleeper cells
20:26spread out
20:26all over the
20:27country.
20:28This reveals
20:292.9 tons
20:31was for sleeper
20:32cells all over
20:33the country.
20:34Now,
20:35these states
20:37have to work
20:38together,
20:39together,
20:40to identify
20:41these sleeper
20:41cells.
20:42And now,
20:43and these sleeper
20:44cells are probably
20:45in the educated
20:46communities,
20:48schools,
20:48colleges,
20:49universities,
20:50hospitals.
20:50You never
20:51know where.
20:52So I think
20:52now this is
20:53the pattern
20:53where if we
20:55reach out
20:55to the educated,
20:57you may not
20:57have,
20:58you may start
20:59having certain
20:59other narratives
21:01coming in
21:01that we are
21:02getting after
21:02that.
21:03I think
21:03this case
21:04reveals we
21:06have ecosystems
21:07to blast.
21:08And in the
21:09ecosystems,
21:10they are also
21:10in religious
21:11institutions.
21:13Okay,
21:13I'm going to
21:13leave it there.
21:14Including money,
21:15says Rajdeep.
21:17Including money
21:18because this
21:18doesn't happen
21:19without big money.
21:20Okay.
21:21Let's leave
21:21it there.
21:22Lots of
21:22interesting
21:23insights raised
21:24with four
21:25very fine
21:25minds.
21:26I appreciate
21:26all of you
21:27joining us
21:28here.
21:28But I
Recommended
58:34
|
Up next
2:26
5:15
Be the first to comment