- 14 hours ago
This special report examines the terror attack in Delhi, officially confirmed by the Cabinet Committee on Security, and the unravelling of a 'white-collar' terror module involving radicalised doctors linked to Jaish-e-Mohammed. With insights from Information and Broadcasting Minister Ashwini Vaishnaw, former Kashmir Corps Commander Lt. Gen. Satish Dua, and ORF Senior Fellow Sushant Sareen, the programme delves into the NIA's investigation and the challenge of online radicalization. The Union Cabinet stated, 'The Cabinet unequivocally condemns this bastardly and cowardly act that has led to the loss of innocent lives.' The discussion explores the government's 'zero tolerance' policy, the potential for cross-border action, and the urgent need for a strategy to counter the indoctrination of educated professionals.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Joining me on this special broadcast is Leftman General Satish Dua, he's former Kashmir Corps commander, he joins us on this broadcast.
00:07Also with me is Nirmal Kaur, Nirmal Kaur joins us on this broadcast in just about a moment, but Sushant Sareen also joining me on this broadcast.
00:19Sushant Sareen is senior fellow at the Observer Research Foundation.
00:22Sushant Sareen, your appreciation of the action that's been taken so far against the accused and the suspects?
00:34Gaurav, I think so far what is happening is that this entire conspiracy and this entire network is being unraveled.
00:41I thinkâŚ
00:42Okay, give me a moment Sushant, I quickly want to cut across and listen in to information and broadcasting minister Ashwati Vaishnav.
00:47Sushant Sareen, the cabinet prays for the speedy recovery of all those injured and appreciates the prompt efforts of the medical personnel and emergency responders who have been providing care and support to the victims.
01:08The cabinet unequivocally condemns this bastardly and cowardly act that has led to the loss of innocent lives.
01:19The cabinet reiterates India's unwavering commitment to a policy of zero tolerance towards terrorism in all its forms and manifestations.
01:30The cabinet also recorded its appreciation for the statements of solidarity and support from many governments around the world.
01:40The cabinet notes with appreciation the timely and coordinated response of the authorities, security agencies and citizens who acted with courage and compassion in the face of diversity.
01:54Their dedication and sense of duty are deeply commendable.
02:01The cabinet directs that the investigation into the incident be pursued with the utmost urgency and professionalism so that the perpetrators, their collaborators and their sponsors are identified and brought to justice without delay.
02:17The situation continues to be closely monitored at the highest levels of the government.
02:23The cabinet reaffirms the government's steadfast resolve to safeguard the lives and well-being of all Indians, consistent with its enduring commitment to national security and the safety of every citizen.
02:36Thank you very much.
03:06promotion mission launched kia gaya hai 25,060 crore rupees ka
03:11Okay, I want to quickly bring in Sushant Sareen into this conversation
03:15Sushant, zero tolerance for terror reiterates the government
03:18appreciates the timely action, directs that action be taken against
03:22not just the perpetrators but also the sponsors and they be brought to justice
03:26and strict national security
03:30commitment, that's what the government reiterates
03:33your thoughts, one on the attack, two on action taken so far
03:39and the role of this module of Dr. Sushant, what do you make of it?
03:44Gaurav, first I think the statement which the cabinet is issued is pretty boilerplate
03:49I don't think you can pick holes in it but it doesn't really tell you
03:53how they are going to go about it
03:54I suppose what you and I are interested in is whether there will be any
04:00cross-border action by the government
04:01there is no indication of that as yet
04:04but yes, they will crack down on whoever was
04:07behind this particular network
04:08they will crack down on all the people
04:11involved with these fellows who carried out
04:13this attack and they will unravel
04:15this entire conspiracy and this network
04:17and I think that is what has been happening
04:19for the last two days
04:20and the speed
04:23with which the investigating agencies
04:25and the security agencies are working
04:27I think is quite admirable
04:28what they are doing is
04:30you know, layer by layer
04:32they are peeling off this entire conspiracy
04:35and unraveling it
04:36before us
04:37before our eyes
04:38and they are not leaving any stone unturned
04:42so if you look at the number of people
04:44who have been detained
04:45who have been questioned
04:46I think it shows you the seriousness
04:48with which this entire issue is being approached
04:51what they will do from here on
04:53I think that is what is going to be extremely important
04:56but as of now
04:58we don't have any indication
04:59of how they intend to proceed
05:01So stay with me for a moment
05:04stay with me
05:04you raised a very pertinent point
05:06and you were asking
05:06whether you perceive
05:08there would be cross-border action
05:09General Dua
05:10in your appreciation
05:11as of now
05:14yes, we all know that
05:15you know, when there is a terror attack in India
05:17that is linked to Jaish-e-Mohammad
05:18the strings have been pulled from across
05:20but as of now
05:22are these grounds
05:23for counter-terror operations
05:26against a radical Islamist terrorist organization
05:28like Jaish-e-Mohammad
05:29across
05:29or do we clean the house first?
05:31A lot of
05:35I think both
05:37things would be in order
05:39we obviously clean the house
05:41we need to take all measures
05:43as has been happening
05:44over the last
05:4515-20 days
05:47because how it started in Kashmir
05:48and then
05:49how JNK police
05:50is coordinated with
05:51Danyana police
05:52and how JNK police
05:53is coordinated with
05:54UP police
05:55to raids
05:56all across
05:57wherever these
05:58crews or trails
06:00led them
06:01that is an ongoing process
06:04and I think they are doing a great job
06:05and as it is coming out
06:07if it was a panic attack
06:09then that means
06:09they have hit the mark
06:11the agencies and security forces
06:13have hit them
06:13on the other hand
06:15what action should be taken?
06:17the prime minister
06:18has made a speech
06:21and as you also pointed out
06:22he brought out one sentence
06:24he spoke one sentence
06:24in English in the middle
06:25and that's what happened
06:26after
06:27in Madhubani in Bihar
06:29speaking to our audience
06:30in Bihar
06:31in Hindi
06:31he suddenly spoke one sentence
06:33in English
06:33and that was meant
06:34obviously a statement
06:35for the global audience
06:36and again he says
06:37we will go after
06:38the perpetrators
06:39wherever they are
06:40and so
06:41if you take your mind back
06:43when we started
06:44these things
06:44when Uri attack
06:47of the surgical strike
06:48was a very shallow strike
06:49and then
06:49Pulwama
06:49was a much deeper strike
06:51and then
06:52Operation Sindhu
06:53was far too deep
06:54and extended
06:55on multiple targets
06:56so
06:57there is
06:58obviously
06:59going to be
07:00some proactive action
07:01when the prime minister
07:02speaks like this
07:02what shape
07:05it will take
07:06is not for us to rest
07:07because
07:07we have to leave that
07:09for the leadership
07:09of the movement
07:11both military and political
07:12to decide
07:13Nirmal Kaur
07:13as former Director General of Police
07:15your appreciation
07:16of the challenge
07:17the country faces
07:18when it comes to
07:19a module
07:19of doctors
07:22allegedly involved
07:23in a massive
07:24multi-city
07:25terror attack
07:26on Indians
07:28and these are
07:29Indian doctors
07:30they are from
07:31Jammu and Kashmir
07:31they are from
07:32Uttar Pradesh
07:32they have benefited
07:33and they are the
07:34cream of our society
07:35considering they are doctors
07:36and yet they are out
07:37to bleed us
07:38truly
07:40the government
07:41has spent a whole deal
07:41of money
07:42you know
07:42subsidizing their education
07:44making them doctors
07:45that they can come forward
07:46and serve the society
07:47instead they are
07:49in the little
07:49ethnic activities
07:50they are forming groups
07:51they are getting
07:52so radicalized
07:53I think that
07:54you spoke of challenges
07:55the biggest challenge
07:56right now
07:57is to
07:57stop this
07:59infiltration
08:00of sleeping cells
08:01you have
08:01so many sleeping cells
08:03so many
08:03you can't
08:04I mean like
08:05and also
08:06radicalization
08:07which is our biggest
08:08threat
08:08right now
08:09that these elements
08:10they are being
08:10like you know
08:10there is
08:11Shopeya paramedic
08:12who has been
08:13radicalizing these
08:13doctors
08:14out there
08:15so
08:16you know
08:17radicalization
08:18is our biggest
08:18threat right now
08:19highly educated
08:20people like these
08:21five six doctors
08:22the lady doctor
08:23you know
08:24she wanted to be
08:25topper to a suspected
08:26terrorist
08:26you are absolutely
08:27right
08:28it is shocking
08:29she has had the best
08:31of everything
08:31in society
08:32and yet
08:32she would choose
08:33a path of terror
08:34Mr. Sahai
08:36Mr. Sahai
08:37as former
08:39Karnataka
08:39ADGP
08:40and somebody
08:41who has looked
08:42at cyber security
08:43very closely
08:44do you look
08:44at this radicalization
08:45is it happening
08:46online
08:47of course
08:48in Kashmir
08:48we saw this
08:49paramedic
08:49who was radicalizing
08:50these elements
08:51but is it a
08:52combination
08:52is this one
08:53kind of
08:54you know
08:55overload
08:56on their
08:57system
08:57that they are
08:59being radicalized
08:59in such a way
09:00that they are
09:00unable to sift
09:01between fact
09:02and fiction
09:03and they are
09:03going down
09:04the terror way
09:04what's happening
09:05and how do you
09:05arrest it
09:06okay sir
09:12you will have to
09:12unmute yourself
09:13please
09:14I think the
09:17current round
09:18of radicalization
09:19as it was
09:20in the case
09:21of Syria
09:22it is a
09:23complete
09:23comprehensive
09:24sort of
09:24radicalization
09:25and remember
09:26those days
09:27there was
09:27a correspondent
09:28who got
09:29into this
09:29sort of
09:30a cell
09:30and one
09:31month's
09:31complete
09:32radicalization
09:33process
09:33she went
09:34through
09:34and that
09:35was brought
09:35down in a
09:36book
09:36so it has
09:37a toolkit
09:38which has
09:39been successful
09:39in large
09:40parts of the
09:40world
09:41and primarily
09:41that is also
09:42being tried
09:43in this
09:43country
09:44and if you
09:44go by
09:45whatever
09:45has unraveled
09:46so far
09:47I think
09:47they were
09:48successful
09:48in this
09:49level of
09:49radicalization
09:50now where
09:51we are
09:52failing is
09:52there's a
09:52huge amount
09:53of electronic
09:54intelligence
09:55and signal
09:55intelligence
09:56which is
09:56coming to
09:57us
09:57and we
09:58are banking
09:58on that
09:59on a
09:59very big
09:59way
10:00but the
10:01human resource
10:01intelligence
10:02on the
10:02radicalization
10:03part
10:04because it
10:04was happening
10:05from 2021
10:062022
10:06so on the
10:07radicalization
10:08part might be
10:09the other
10:09intelligence is
10:11there but
10:11human resource
10:12intelligence
10:13primarily on
10:14organizations
10:15or enterprises
10:16which are
10:17likely to
10:18fall in
10:18this trap
10:19I think
10:19that is
10:20somehow as
10:20far as the
10:21current
10:21understanding
10:22goes that
10:23is missing
10:23and they
10:24have been
10:24moving on
10:25this
10:25radicalization
10:26process
10:26after your
10:27propagation
10:28after your
10:29repealing of
10:30370
10:30so it was
10:31seen that
10:32they are
10:32lying low
10:33the stone
10:33pelting is
10:34not happening
10:34and one
10:35odd incident
10:35though grave
10:36in nature
10:37has happened
10:37but while
10:38lying lull
10:39this is the
10:40activity which
10:40they have been
10:41doing and
10:41they have been
10:42spreading their
10:43tentacles in a
10:44very very
10:44surreptitious
10:45manner and
10:46whosoever
10:46selected that
10:47the doctors
10:48should be
10:48their weapon
10:49and their
10:50tool in
10:51their war
10:51against India
10:52through terrorism
10:53that's
10:54follow
10:54we are
10:55getting the
10:55first statement
10:56from the
10:56cabinet committee
10:57on security
10:57officially stating
10:59that the
11:00red fort
11:01bombing
11:02were the
11:03attempt the
11:04vehicle attack
11:05was a
11:05VBID was
11:07a terror
11:08attack so
11:09it's official
11:10now of course
11:10when a case
11:11was registered
11:12under sections
11:13of the UAPA
11:15and the
11:16investigation
11:16was handed
11:17over to
11:18the National
11:18Investigation
11:19Agency
11:19it was
11:20officially
11:21a terror
11:22investigation
11:24that had
11:24been initiated
11:25but the
11:26government
11:27has now
11:27officially
11:28confirmed
11:29that the
11:29Delhi blast
11:30was a terror
11:32attack
11:32Dr.
11:33Soumya
11:33Abasthi
11:34does this
11:35change the
11:36nature
11:36of the
11:38direction of
11:39the investigation
11:40NIA is
11:40investigating it
11:41there are
11:42cases under
11:42UAPA that
11:43have already
11:43been registered
11:44does it add
11:45momentum to
11:46the investigations
11:47does it now
11:48become more
11:50focused in
11:52its approach
11:52to deal with
11:53ma'am
11:53yes given
11:56the fact
11:56that UAPA
11:57was evoked
11:58at that
12:00time it
12:01it's really
12:01clear that
12:02any kind
12:03of attack
12:03on the
12:03national
12:04symbols
12:04which
12:05Dreadfort
12:05is is
12:06equivalent to
12:07attacking the
12:08sovereignty of
12:09the nation
12:09and because
12:10of that
12:11this act
12:12had to be
12:12implemented
12:13and now
12:14the investigation
12:15will actually
12:16get expedited
12:17there will be
12:18more there
12:19will be a
12:19special court
12:20which will
12:20be in
12:21place and
12:22the suspects
12:23will be
12:23under remand
12:24for 180
12:25days before
12:26the charge
12:27sheet is
12:28filed so
12:28that gives
12:30a lot of
12:30time for
12:30the investigative
12:31agencies to
12:32move forward
12:33with a
12:34focused mind
12:35and given
12:37the fact that
12:37there is a
12:38clear indication
12:39already and
12:41which was
12:41likely in this
12:43case more
12:43inclined towards
12:45Jaishya
12:45Mohammed because
12:46of the
12:47women doctor
12:48involved and
12:49she was
12:50apparently
12:51also claimed
12:52to be
12:52heading the
12:52women wing
12:53which was
12:54also inducting
12:55online courses
12:56for women
12:57to follow
12:57jihad and
12:59radicalization
13:00you asked a
13:02very important
13:02question on
13:03radicalization
13:04and I think
13:04given the
13:06fact that now
13:07the social
13:07media and
13:08the way gaming
13:09applications are
13:11being used
13:11so radicalization
13:13is not limited
13:13to universities
13:14or madrasas
13:15but it has
13:16gone beyond
13:16that into
13:17the digital
13:18world so
13:18it is becoming
13:20a big
13:20challenge for
13:21the nation
13:21to counter
13:22radicalization
13:23but simultaneously
13:25I think we
13:26need to do
13:27more we need
13:28to have
13:29stronger laws
13:30on how
13:30the gaming
13:32applications as
13:33well as the
13:34social media
13:35platforms are
13:36being used for
13:36propaganda and
13:38for signaling
13:38and yeah so
13:41that is where I
13:41feel the
13:42challenge lies
13:43in Sushant
13:43Sareen into
13:44this conversation
13:45because Sushant
13:45Sareen what I
13:46find extremely
13:46worrisome in
13:47this case is
13:48the fact that
13:49you have
13:49medical doctors
13:51people you and
13:52I would go to
13:52saying heal us
13:54look after us
13:55we trust them to
13:57nurture us back
13:57to health
13:58these are the
13:59people who are
13:59actually plotting
14:00to kill us
14:01I mean whether
14:01it's this group
14:02of doctors from
14:03Jammu and Kashmir
14:04or Uttar Pradesh
14:05or the doctor
14:06from Hyderabad
14:07who was trying to
14:08make some chemical
14:09toxin to mix in
14:10fruit and vegetables
14:10and in one report
14:12that I read in
14:13Prasad and kill
14:14as many innocent
14:15people in crowded
14:16places how
14:17widespread are
14:18the terror
14:19tentacles of
14:20these doctors
14:21what do you do
14:21in such a case
14:22yeah Gaurav
14:24I don't want to
14:25be facetious about
14:27this but the
14:27fact of the matter
14:28is anybody who
14:29wants to kill me
14:30I don't care whether
14:31it's a doctor
14:31engineer an MBA
14:33you know somebody
14:35working in an MNC
14:36I don't care
14:37the point is that
14:38terrorist is a
14:39terrorist
14:39no but the
14:41fact is a
14:41doctor you
14:42would trust
14:42and Ajmal
14:43Amir Kassab
14:43you'd probably
14:44beware of
14:45you know you'd
14:45stay at an
14:46arm's length
14:47a doctor you
14:47would go to
14:48and say you
14:48know you're
14:49treating me
14:49or you're
14:49treating my
14:50family
14:50I don't think
14:52I would have
14:52gone to these
14:53doctors anyways
14:54but the bottom
14:54line is that
14:55look the fact
14:56of the matter
14:57remains that
14:57look you have
14:58to understand
14:59that there is
15:00a climate in
15:02which there is
15:03a bunch of
15:03people who start
15:04getting radicalized
15:05in this particular
15:06case it's a
15:07bunch of
15:07doctors in another
15:08case it could be
15:09a bunch of
15:10engineers
15:10Gaurav there's
15:11a question I
15:12have often
15:12asked people
15:13in security
15:14services when
15:1610 or 15
15:18for example
15:19students in a
15:20university are
15:21sitting down
15:22let's take
15:23for want of a
15:24better word
15:25Jamya Milya
15:26University or
15:27Aligarh Muslim
15:27University or
15:28one of these
15:29universities
15:29people of a
15:32particular persuasion
15:33people of a
15:34particular faith
15:34and that could be
15:35any faith
15:36what are they
15:38talking about
15:38what are the
15:40conversations
15:41happening between
15:41them what are
15:43the things which
15:43are agitating
15:44them I know
15:45what my kids
15:46are discussing
15:46they're discussing
15:47pop music
15:48they're discussing
15:49jobs they're
15:50discussing you
15:51know all kinds
15:52of new things
15:53which are happening
15:53what are other
15:54kids discussing
15:55I think we are
15:57completely blind
15:58to this as a
15:59result things
16:00erupt we are
16:02taken by shock
16:03how come very
16:04educated people
16:05from really rich
16:06or well to do
16:07families who
16:08don't need to
16:09take to terrorism
16:10why are they
16:11doing it
16:11terrorists are
16:12not doing it
16:13because they
16:13want to make
16:14money terrorists
16:15are doing it
16:15because they
16:16have been
16:16convinced that
16:17this is the
16:18path forward
16:18this is the
16:19path to
16:20Jannat so I
16:21think we need
16:22to be very
16:22careful and we
16:23need to be
16:24you know very
16:25aware of what
16:26what is this
16:27menace that we
16:28are dealing with
16:29and unfortunately
16:30despite 40 years
16:31of dealing with
16:32it I still
16:33don't think we
16:34have adequate
16:35understanding
16:35or are we too
16:37soft are we
16:38too unwilling
16:39to call a
16:41spade a spade
16:41Ms. Nirmal
16:42Kaur and you
16:44know go after
16:44these elements
16:45and is this in
16:46your view ma'am
16:47while it may have
16:48been good
16:49intelligence and
16:49good operations
16:50in nabbing these
16:52elements before
16:53they could carry
16:53out that big
16:54terror attack
16:55sadly 8 to
16:5610 people still
16:57lost their lives
16:58is this an
16:58intelligence failure
16:59if this indoctrination
17:00was on from
17:012021-22 and
17:03they still
17:03succeeded in
17:04carrying out a
17:05terror attack in
17:052025 is this a
17:07failure of
17:08intelligence at
17:09multiple levels
17:09including what
17:10these chaps were
17:11talking in their
17:12colleges and
17:13universities and
17:13were being
17:14radicalized by
17:14that paramedic
17:16I you know
17:17that's universal
17:17knowledge that's
17:18universal knowledge
17:19and that is
17:20there's nothing
17:20you know that
17:21fault lines are so
17:22deeply drawn and
17:23you know what
17:24you're saying is
17:25the terrorists
17:25have to succeed
17:26only once the
17:27security agency to
17:28succeed all the
17:29time you know
17:30there's this
17:31message that
17:32sent by IRM
17:33and Margaret
17:34Thatcher okay
17:34we should
17:35but we have to
17:36succeed only once
17:36and you have to
17:37succeed all that
17:38so I wouldn't
17:39call it as an
17:39intelligence failure
17:40but universal it is
17:42in front of your
17:42own eyes you
17:43refuse to see it
17:44there is this
17:45Khoja Muslim
17:46family that
17:47migrates to
17:48some place in
17:48Africa two
17:49three years ago
17:50the I mean the
17:52sun makes it
17:53big and you
17:53know he's
17:54claiming Muslim
17:54identity in
17:55India Shias and
17:56Sundis do not
17:58even acknowledge
17:58Khojas as
17:59Muslims they
18:00came to India
18:01to escape
18:03persecution at
18:04the hands of
18:05Muslims that's
18:05how Khojas and
18:06Boras came to
18:07India and now
18:08you know away
18:09thousands of
18:09miles away he's
18:10talking about
18:11execution of
18:11Muslims in
18:12India to get
18:13Muslim votes in
18:14New York and
18:15he actually did
18:16end up in an
18:16election so you
18:17think so give me
18:18a moment before I
18:19bring in before I
18:20bring in General
18:21Dua and Mr.
18:22Sahai I want to
18:23cut across and
18:24bring in India
18:24today's Aishwarya
18:25Paliwal who's
18:25joining us after
18:26this cabinet
18:27committee on
18:27security meeting
18:29and briefing
18:30Aishwarya explain
18:32the significance of
18:34the government
18:34after the CCS
18:35meeting officially
18:36now calling it
18:37an act of terror
18:38how do things
18:40change in terms
18:41of action that
18:42will be taken
18:43against the
18:44perpetrators
18:44do we see
18:45special quotes
18:46and time
18:46bound action
18:47now
18:47well definitely
18:52you know
18:52let me tell
18:53you this is
18:53very very clear
18:54message which
18:54is now coming
18:55in from the
18:56government
18:56the government
18:57now saying
18:57that this is
18:58an act of
18:59terror something
18:59that you know
19:00all the teams
19:03at the moment
19:03were also pointing
19:04towards the fact
19:05the funding
19:06which came in
19:06the way in
19:07which we are
19:07now seeing
19:08people being
19:09added
19:10people who
19:12now are being
19:13told what
19:13exactly to do
19:14the idea was
19:15to kill as
19:16many people
19:16as possible
19:17so this is
19:18a clear
19:18statement
19:19a crisp
19:20and a short
19:20statement
19:21coming in
19:21from the
19:21government
19:22of India
19:22and that
19:22is why
19:23Gaurav let
19:23me tell
19:23you
19:24the meeting
19:24that took
19:25place
19:25almost half
19:26an hour
19:26with home
19:27minister
19:27Amit Shah
19:28and the
19:28NSA
19:29Ajit
19:29Dobal
19:29and prime
19:30minister
19:30Narendra Modi
19:31the three
19:31of them
19:32sat and
19:33they had
19:33a half
19:34an hour
19:34meeting
19:34what needs
19:35to be done
19:35next
19:36now this
19:36is something
19:36which is
19:37very very
19:37crucial
19:37something
19:38that the
19:38government
19:38will now
19:39very keenly
19:40will have
19:40to look at
19:41and from
19:41what I can
19:42also understand
19:44at the moment
19:44we will also
19:45tell other
19:46countries the
19:47action that
19:47India will
19:48now be
19:48taking
19:48because this
19:49is something
19:49Gaurav and
19:50you also
19:50understand it
19:51very well
19:51that this
19:52is something
19:52that the
19:53government
19:53of the
19:54country
19:54does not
19:55take very
19:55lightly
19:56there are
19:57lives that
19:57have been
19:57lost and
19:58there was
19:59a larger
19:59plot that
20:00was being
20:00made
20:01there were
20:02different
20:02states
20:02absolutely
20:05in fact
20:05that is
20:06the cabinet
20:06committee
20:07on security
20:07you know
20:09the decisions
20:09that have
20:10been taken
20:10the information
20:11that's been
20:11put out
20:12in public
20:12domain
20:13General Dua
20:14you've
20:15operated in
20:16Kashmir
20:16very extensively
20:18sir
20:18are you
20:19surprised
20:20that there
20:20are these
20:21multiple
20:21doctors from
20:22Kashmir
20:22and doctors
20:23from
20:24Uttar Pradesh
20:25from well
20:25to do
20:26families
20:26a brother
20:27sister
20:27duo
20:27very well
20:29off
20:29and the
20:30doctor
20:30from
20:30Hyderabad
20:31and these
20:32are all
20:32elements
20:33in different
20:34entities
20:34plotting
20:36to kill
20:37fellow Indians
20:37the short
20:41answer
20:42is no
20:42you're not
20:44surprised
20:44the short
20:48answer
20:49I'm sorry
20:49I'll start
20:50the short
20:51answer
20:51is no
20:52I'm not
20:53surprised
20:53because in
20:55the past
20:55also we
20:56have seen
20:56you know
20:57more than a
20:59decade ago
20:59when it was
21:00the IM
21:01Indian
21:01Mujahideen
21:02along with
21:03Simi
21:04they were
21:05engineers
21:06they were
21:06white collar
21:07terrorism
21:08those days
21:10also
21:10then we
21:12had a couple
21:12of engineers
21:13entering
21:15in Kashmir
21:17while I
21:17was serving
21:17there in
21:18Kashmir
21:18so we
21:19have seen
21:20this happen
21:21off and
21:22on
21:23when we
21:24also
21:24after
21:25abrogation of
21:26article 378
21:27approximately five
21:28years ago
21:29we started
21:29seeing a new
21:30term called
21:30the hybrid
21:31terrorist
21:31which has
21:31now morphed
21:32into a
21:33white collar
21:33terrorism
21:33so I'm not
21:34surprised that
21:35this is happening
21:36in fact it
21:37actually focuses
21:38us towards
21:39this angle
21:40also we
21:41should not
21:41only look
21:42at terrorists
21:42from a
21:43certain
21:43strata of
21:43society
21:44we should
21:45be aware
21:46and conscious
21:46of the fact
21:47that we
21:47will get
21:49more and
21:49more terrorists
21:50from this
21:51places where
21:52such strata
21:53we may be
21:54a little
21:54unsuspecting
21:55of and I
21:56think to
21:58add one
21:58sentence to
21:59what you
21:59were asking
21:59your own
22:01news reporter
22:02the government
22:03the Prime
22:05Minister during
22:05Operation Sindur
22:06or before
22:06Operation Sindur
22:07had said
22:08that any
22:09act of
22:10terrorism
22:10will be
22:12treated as
22:12an act
22:13of war
22:13that was
22:14a very
22:14clear
22:14statement
22:15and now
22:16that the
22:16CCS has
22:17declared
22:17after due
22:18investigation
22:19and diligence
22:19that this
22:20is an
22:21act of
22:21terror
22:21I am
22:22sure
22:22we are
22:24going to
22:24see very
22:24concrete
22:25action
22:25where
22:25when
22:26and how
22:26we will
22:27have to
22:27leave it
22:27to the
22:28leadership
22:28side
22:28because
22:30this will
22:30have to
22:31be a
22:31multi-pronged
22:32offensive
22:32Mr.
22:33Sahai
22:33you know
22:34you've
22:34dealt
22:35with
22:35in
22:35Karnataka
22:36highly
22:37educated
22:37engineers
22:39software
22:40engineers
22:40who are
22:41in some
22:42instances
22:42self-radicalized
22:43looking at
22:44Islamic State
22:45literature
22:47and becoming
22:48Islamic State
22:49terrorists
22:50we've seen that
22:50in Karnataka
22:51we've seen that
22:52in Kerala
22:52we've seen that
22:53in pockets of
22:54Bengal
22:54if you were
22:56to map
22:56our country
22:57from
22:58Kashmir
22:59to
22:59parts of
23:00Haryana
23:01to
23:01Uttar Pradesh
23:02to
23:02Andhra Pradesh
23:03to Kerala
23:04to Karnataka
23:05to Bengal
23:06trouble
23:07seems to be
23:08in various
23:08places
23:08now how
23:09do you
23:09counter
23:10this threat
23:11what needs
23:11to be done
23:12clearly
23:12there cannot
23:12be a magic
23:13bullet
23:13while we
23:14deal with
23:14the enemy
23:15across
23:15how do
23:16you deal
23:16with the
23:16enemy
23:16within
23:17radicalization
23:19is something
23:20which has
23:21been reinventing
23:22itself
23:22again and
23:23again and
23:24again
23:24and there
23:25has been
23:25different
23:26modalities
23:26from Syria
23:27to Afghanistan
23:28and finally
23:29coming to
23:30India
23:30so as a
23:31silver bullet
23:32it is not
23:33going to
23:33happen but
23:34primarily it
23:35happens
23:35one is the
23:36lone wolf
23:36stage
23:37the lone wolf
23:38stage I
23:39think it has
23:39been crossed
23:40the lone wolf
23:41stage has
23:41crossed because
23:42we are having
23:43a very
23:43coordinated
23:44integrated
23:45focused
23:46intense
23:47radicalization
23:48which is
23:48primarily
23:49aiming at
23:50a sleeper
23:51cell it is
23:52aiming at a
23:52group I
23:53presume or I
23:54hope that
23:55this is the
23:55only group
23:56there can
23:57be any
23:57number of
23:57groups so
23:58the quality
23:59of radicalization
24:00is supported
24:01through social
24:02media through
24:03YouTube and
24:04also you have
24:05the local
24:05handlers as
24:06you have this
24:07handlers outside
24:08of this country
24:09you have
24:09handlers like
24:10the Molvi
24:11inside India
24:12as well and
24:13a paramedic
24:13teaching radicalization
24:15it is primarily
24:16if you read
24:17you will know
24:17Harari it is
24:19though he
24:19talks about
24:20the digital
24:20world it
24:21is the
24:21hacking of
24:22the mind
24:22which is
24:23the most
24:24subversive
24:25thing which
24:26can happen
24:26which you
24:27cannot see
24:27on the face
24:28of it
24:28now at the
24:29level of
24:30encryption and
24:31level of variety
24:31of other things
24:32which are
24:32happening now
24:33it has become
24:34very very
24:34difficult to
24:35handle because
24:3598% of our
24:37interaction today
24:38is primarily on
24:39the digital
24:40channels so
24:41one is
24:42radicalization
24:42with the
24:43instant
24:43communication
24:44added with
24:45that there
24:46are physical
24:46elements
24:47human resource
24:47elements which
24:48are radicalizing
24:49on a day-to-day
24:50basis so
24:51until unless
24:52we are able
24:52to map in
24:53the current
24:54case with
24:55huge amount
24:55of investigation
24:56and a very
24:57very integrated
24:57approach we
24:58have been able
24:59to map at
24:59least to some
25:00level if we
25:01are able to
25:02map to this
25:02level the
25:03next co-centric
25:04circles also
25:05have to be
25:06mapped and
25:06the deradicalization
25:08strategy has to
25:10be worked out
25:10and we have to
25:11start with at
25:12least couple of
25:13themselves and
25:13spread it around
25:14we have to
25:15iterate and
25:16find solutions
25:17there are no
25:17ready-made
25:18solutions you
25:18have to iterate
25:19find solutions
25:20for yourself
25:21and this must
25:22be done very
25:22openly this must
25:23happen across
25:24the length and
25:25breadth of our
25:25country if
25:26certain elements
25:27need to be
25:27ostracized if
25:28some elements
25:29Dr. Swamy
25:29Avastee need to
25:31be put in jail
25:31they must be
25:33put in jail
25:33without fear of
25:34favor and even
25:35if there is an
25:36enabling ecosystem
25:37and Sushant
25:37Saneen I will
25:38come to you in
25:38a moment on that
25:39enabling ecosystem
25:40but Dr. Avastee
25:42right now I want
25:43to talk about
25:43action that we
25:44need to take
25:45within and
25:45action that we
25:46need to take
25:46beyond you know
25:48elements in
25:49Pakistan who
25:49are radicalizing
25:50elements in
25:50Turkey who
25:51are radicalizing
25:52the funds
25:53flow that
25:54needs to be
25:54unraveled because
25:55somewhere down
25:56the line this
25:56is India's
25:57problem and
25:58there are too
25:58many enemies
25:59at multiple
26:00levels who are
26:01working in
26:01tandem to
26:02bleed us from
26:02within
26:03yeah so
26:05yeah so yes
26:06I'll add one
26:07more point to
26:08why radicalization
26:09and doctors
26:10you are talking
26:11about it you
26:12know it becomes
26:14easy for educated
26:15people to get
26:16recruited because
26:17they start
26:18rationalizing the
26:19violence through
26:20selective religious
26:21or ideological
26:22interpretations and
26:23moreover the
26:23terrorist organizations
26:24deliberately recruit
26:26these doctors
26:27engineers and other
26:28skilled professionals
26:29because they
26:30bring their
26:31expertise and
26:32moreover the
26:33credibility that
26:33they get because
26:34today I will go
26:36to a doctor I
26:36need a doctor for
26:37treatment so that's
26:38why it becomes
26:39credibility becomes
26:41easy they can get
26:42access to hospitals
26:43to public places
26:44if Kassab goes
26:46looking like Kassab
26:46he will not get
26:47entry into a mall
26:48but if a doctor
26:49walks in they will
26:51be thinking okay
26:52it's looking like an
26:53educated person so
26:54that is why they
26:55are moving towards
26:56these educated
26:57professionals and
26:59getting them
26:59recruited now
27:00coming to the
27:01question and why
27:02and how can we
27:03you know counter
27:05these radical
27:05people or
27:07radicalization I
27:08think we have
27:09done we are
27:10doing good job by
27:11bringing up new
27:12laws that are
27:13targeting the core
27:15issues of
27:15radicalization like
27:16I spoke about
27:17initially on the
27:19online gaming bill
27:20that was interesting
27:21because it's not
27:22just bringing
27:23financial crimes
27:25but also it is
27:26becoming a weapon
27:27or a tool for
27:28online module of
27:30training the
27:31recruits so you
27:33don't need a
27:33battleground you
27:34can actually do it
27:35on call of duty or
27:36roblox so that was
27:38one of the reasons
27:39to have an online
27:40gaming bill we have
27:41also seen how
27:42popular front of
27:43india has been
27:44banned the moot
27:46point where I want
27:47to really emphasize
27:48here is we need to
27:50re-look at the
27:51societies act which
27:53was a big which was
27:54written in 1800s
27:56because that is what
27:57becomes an easy way to
27:59re-register themselves
28:00so that's why simi has
28:02taken the shape of
28:03campus front of india
28:04because the society
28:06act is allowing them
28:07again and again to
28:08rebuild themselves so
28:10that is something we
28:11need to look at and of
28:12course we need to spend
28:13a lot of money on
28:14countering these
28:15radicalization groups
28:16because you need people
28:18from within the
28:19community also to come
28:20forward is india too
28:24soft a state in dealing
28:26with these elements so
28:27yes and ajmal amir
28:28kassab was given due
28:29process of law tried
28:31and ultimately hanged
28:32many saw that as
28:33politics but when you
28:34look at the bartler
28:35house encounter when you
28:36look at the politics
28:37around bartler house
28:38encounter do we have
28:39an enabling ecosystem
28:40that may you know for
28:42a for a muslim vote
28:43bank actually go the
28:45other way and become a
28:47terror enabling ecosystem
28:48two three points
28:51gaurab number one what
28:52would people who said
28:54that hanging of ajmal
28:55kassab was a political
28:56move what would they
28:58have us do make put him
29:00in parliament and make
29:02him represent probably
29:03they would you know
29:04it's it's ridiculous and
29:06bizarre the kind of
29:07stupidity which we see
29:09in our public spaces
29:10second i don't think we
29:12are a soft state i think
29:13we are a confused state
29:15when india wants to be
29:17hard it can be really
29:19really hard right it can
29:22be a pretty ruthless
29:23state when it wants to
29:24be the problem is that
29:26the way policy making
29:28is done in this country
29:29is rather confused so
29:30for example let's talk
29:31about radicalism how do
29:32we define radicalism how
29:34you know how do we
29:36define say religious
29:37radicalism now i can
29:38show you a very well
29:41educated people on
29:43twitter for example which
29:44is one of the social
29:45media handles platforms
29:47i use saying stuff
29:49which make your skin
29:51crawl right would that
29:54fit into the definition
29:56of radicalism if it
29:57does then why is nobody
29:59acting against them is
30:01mere banning them good
30:02enough something more
30:03needs to be done does
30:05your legal system provide
30:07you with the kind of
30:08latitude you need to
30:09crack down and how do
30:11you draw the balance
30:12between cracking down
30:13on these guys but
30:14also allowing freedom
30:15of speech now these
30:17are very very serious
30:18and very very sensitive
30:19issues which you have
30:21to deal with with a
30:23great degree of
30:24sensitivity because
30:25otherwise if you are
30:26going to use a hammer
30:27to do this you have a
30:28Nepal like situation
30:29right so you know
30:31these are things which
30:32should have agitated
30:33our policy makers 10
30:35years back okay
30:36you
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