What's the true cost of bending the truth? In this thought-provoking episode of "What Do You Have to Say?", Phillip and Uriah confront the hidden cost of dishonesty and the inevitable breakdown of trust it causes.
They explore the complex territory between outright lying and subtle dishonesty, sharing personal stories and examining deception from childhood lessons to modern digital deceit.
Discover why people choose dishonesty and the profound impact it has on relationships and self-perception. If you've ever wondered about the weight of untruth or the foundations of integrity, tune in for an engaging discussion that challenges our connection to truth.
#BreakdownOfTrust
#Dishonesty #TruthMatters #Podcast #WDYH2S
They explore the complex territory between outright lying and subtle dishonesty, sharing personal stories and examining deception from childhood lessons to modern digital deceit.
Discover why people choose dishonesty and the profound impact it has on relationships and self-perception. If you've ever wondered about the weight of untruth or the foundations of integrity, tune in for an engaging discussion that challenges our connection to truth.
#BreakdownOfTrust
#Dishonesty #TruthMatters #Podcast #WDYH2S
Category
🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:00We want to know what do you have to say, oh, what do you have to say, oh, there's no time
00:11to wait, what do you have to say, together we lift our voices and let them ring, oh,
00:18oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, talking about life, we got stories to reveal, lighthearted
00:24what do you have to say, hello, hello, how are you doing, Phil, I'm good, how are you
00:35doing, man, I'm good, and everybody, welcome to the podcast, what do you have to say, yes,
00:44welcome, we're glad you're here, glad you clicked play, stick with us for a minute, see what's
00:50up, a minute or two, a minute or two, okay,
00:54yeah, well, here we are, another, I don't know if it's another day, but it's another
01:01time, it's another time, another episode, another episode, and we're going to get into
01:08some conversation, but before we get into some conversation, we were talking, we were talking
01:14a little bit about, you know, in the last episode about screen time, yeah, screen time,
01:25that's in your smartphone, screen time, and how much do we need of electronics, and blah,
01:30blah, blah, and all that kind of stuff, and I sort of asked at the very end, I know we're
01:35not going to have this conversation right now, but I asked if you could live out in the wilderness,
01:41and you said yes, and then right before we came on, you were talking about, you know,
01:45I just need a little house, and two acres, and a pond, and I said, we are so different,
01:53now, I don't need 50 acres, and a mansion,
01:56wow, okay, it's just interesting to see the difference, you know,
02:05I've known you all my life, and it's just interesting how things chipped and changed,
02:13I'm not saying that you were someone who wanted to grab this, you needed that,
02:17but it's just interesting, I think, as we get older, as we just learn about life,
02:23and what it's all about, and really what we want, or desire, or what we need, things look different,
02:29they look different, they look different from 10 years ago, yeah, and in pursuit of some other
02:37things, career-wise, and just some other things, pursuit, but it's changed, and I've changed,
02:45I've changed, and I will be content knowing what I know, and just my experiences, two acres,
02:54a tiny house, and a pond where I can go fishing, and that sounds nice, that's it, I mean, and enjoy
03:04it, and growing things, and just commuting with nature, and yeah, well, I was, I was thinking about
03:12knowing that that's sort of a simpler way of life that you're thinking about now, in the past,
03:20like, maybe if you're like, maybe me, or some other folks, we wanted things, we wanted positions,
03:28we wanted, oh, yes, sir, it's a lot of stuff, and I wonder, in some occasions, I don't, maybe myself,
03:37maybe some other people, maybe we weren't as honest, maybe to try to get those things, you know,
03:45we always hear about people lying, or cheating, you know, and it's always to get something, right,
03:53right, so the topic of today's conversation, or investigation, is what you have to say about
04:01dishonesty, flat lying, oh, man, that's, that's, that's, that's heavy, that's heavy, it's heavy,
04:09what do you, yeah, what do you have to say, because, oh, dishonesty, but, you know,
04:15my parents used to say, you can get by, but you can't get away, so that dishonesty, and all that
04:24lies, it'll catch up with you, so, um, it will catch up with you, it'll catch up with you,
04:30one way or another, and it'll manifest it in a different way, but dishonesty, it's been around
04:36as, since Adam and Eve ate the apple, so, you know, it's, you think it's going somewhere, nah.
04:46So, I want to talk a little bit about both of them, but before I want to do that, I just want to ask
04:51you, because I have a story to tell about, I'll say lying, but do you have, do you have, um,
04:58any kind of, well, I'll share my first, and maybe you'll have something to share, okay,
05:03so, I remember, I was, I don't know, maybe 13 or so, because I think I was driving, and yes,
05:12I grew up in Kansas, and I was driving when I was 13 years old, so, and I'm almost a year younger than
05:20most people in my age group, but yeah, I was, I was driving when I was 13. Anyhow, um, I had done
05:28something, and I'll never forget, coming home, and my mom and her husband were there, and they,
05:35they called me into the room, and they asked me a question. They already knew the answer.
05:40They are.
05:41They already knew the answer, and they said, listen, uh, they posed, like, if you tell us,
05:46I forget what I had done, but they said, if you tell us the truth, you may not get in trouble at
05:53all, or you may, the trouble, the punishment you'll get in might be lesser than if you lie,
05:59and I thought about that for a second, and I told them the truth, and they told us, we already knew
06:06the answer, and I didn't get in trouble at all, and that thing taught me, uh, I'm not saying that
06:15I've always been honest in every situation, but especially with my, uh, caregivers, it told me
06:22not to lie. A, they probably already know the answer, and they're trying to see what I'm going
06:28to do, and see what my characters are, so I learned something about lying men.
06:34I learned, I, oh, goodness, how can I say this? I, uh, Bertha Louise Perry was my mother,
06:45and she just knew kind of, like, everything, just anyway, and, um, sometimes I would not be honest,
06:55and I would get away with it, you know, but then there were other times when I was being dishonest,
07:01and she was like, oh, no, and lying, I guess just to try to get out of, get out of something,
07:11get out of punishment, or not to look, not to disappoint them sometimes, because I, I was not,
07:20um, always doing the right thing, um, right, uh, stealing the car, and, and drinking, and all of that,
07:30yeah, all that stuff, right, it's so interesting, and, uh, you sort of listed some of the reasons
07:37that I, I found that they talk about why people lie, so, um, before we get into that a little bit
07:44more, I just want to understand, if you had to define, or give a definition, um, and, and don't
07:51wrap your brain over it, the difference between dishonesty and lying, dishonesty and lying, what,
07:57how would you define the two? I, I think it, I think I got it, dishonesty is not telling the whole
08:05truth, maybe part of the truth, lying is outright, you're, you're trying to deceive, um, let's see,
08:16deceive, lie, or just, I, I thought of that, I had it, but I think that, no, I think dishonesty
08:23is, like, you're not just telling the whole, you're not telling the whole story, you're dishonest
08:28about it, but lying, you, you, you're intense, your intent is to deceive me with not telling
08:35the truth. The lying piece, I think you've got, I think you have it down, what, um, what,
08:43because there's been a lot of studies and stuff that talk about it, especially with students
08:49and children, yada, yada, yada, but one of the, the definitions of dishonesty that I found
08:56that was very common is, in general, dishonesty is just a, it's a broad term, but what it encompasses
09:03is, um, a lack of integrity, um, a lack of, of truthfulness, um, it's a lack of inequity or
09:13fairness, um, um, someone's disposition to deceit, um, or to defraud people, and the one thing
09:24I found, it manifests in ways like, it manifests in lying, it manifests in cheating, um, stealing,
09:34and when we just misrepresent information.
09:37I'd like those words, just misrepresent, yeah.
09:41Misrepresent, so, dishonesty, and lying, really, it gets to the nitty-gritty, right?
09:48And, that's, it's very specific, because lying, it really involves, and you said it, making
09:55false statements with the intent to deceive somebody.
10:00Right, right.
10:01Lying, right, and this popped into my head, I don't know, you know, your mother grew up
10:07in the household with our grandparents, right?
10:10I remember, for a lot of Black folks, especially religious Black folks, you could not call, and
10:19the Bible says, do not call your brother a liar.
10:21I know, I couldn't say it.
10:23Calling somebody a liar was the worst thing, and so, I grew up in my house, I was, again,
10:31around 13, 14 years old, still saying, oh, you're telling a story.
10:36You're telling a story.
10:36Because you could, you could not say.
10:38You could not, you could not say, what was that, man?
10:42I've, I've, you bring that back to my memory, because we could not say lie, or liar, we could
10:49say fib, um, we could say fib, are you telling a story, but lie, or liar, lying, that, that
11:00was so serious, man, uh, it was something, it carried some serious consequences, um, serious
11:07consequences.
11:08It really was, yeah.
11:10Well, if somebody's a liar, especially in our parents' generation, our grandparents'
11:14generation, they weren't up to no good, right?
11:19No good.
11:20And it seems like, you know, the degrees you were talking about, dishonesty, or lying, you
11:25know, and, uh, our parents' generation, and how they were raised, a liar, what do you say,
11:31they, that was, that was as worse as, I don't know how you could equate, um, the degree of
11:40someone's, um, deceptiveness or something, but if you were a liar, and that, and you wore
11:46that, it would be like, uh, who wore the A on their, on their, you know, it was, and
11:53you were branded, and you were like, you're a liar, and we're not, right.
11:59Well, the sort of thought that what we could do is, um, I'll show you a couple of things
12:05that talk about sort of why we lie, and we'll break down sort of different ways that we lie,
12:10and we'll sort of engage with that a little bit more, because, let me tell you, we might,
12:18we might get convicted a little bit, right?
12:21Okay.
12:21So, this, this clip just sort of very short talks about why we lie.
12:28Lying is a healthy part of development.
12:31We pick it up at a round two and practice it freely until we reach our teenage years when
12:36lying starts to get tangled up in morality, and to justify it to ourselves, we start to
12:41give lies names, like white lies.
12:46So, she said, they're saying.
12:49It's a healthy, it's healthy lie.
12:51It's healthy.
12:53It's healthy to lie.
12:54Until, until it becomes entangled with morality.
12:59There you go.
13:00Ooh, but, I, it's some, it's some dissonance with that, um, you know, it's okay to lie,
13:11and then you justify it with the white lie.
13:14Anyway, go ahead, man.
13:16Right, right, right.
13:16I think, I think, mm-mm, that, there's, that doesn't, that doesn't jive with me.
13:23Well, well, and, and, you know, ultimately, I mean, we're not, this is in the research
13:27paper, so we're not going to follow it.
13:28But some of the things that we're talking about can break it down, but I think of what
13:33they're talking about, which I think we'll see a little bit in the clip, is, like, sometimes
13:38lying can be helpful to the self a little bit.
13:44Okay.
13:45I don't know, but we'll look at it.
13:47So, there, they broke it down, there's, there's a lot of different kind of ways, uh, that we
13:53lie, and there's, like, a general way that we lie, and, um, this is just hard to tell,
14:03because they say we lie, but it's, uh, general lie is, general lying is hard to report, because
14:10we don't often, uh, report our own behavior accurately.
14:14So, when they go to do studies, obviously, people go, like, oh, no, I don't lie, when,
14:18when, in fact, we all lie in some way, shape, form, or fashion, which we're going to look
14:24at.
14:24So, some of them, and there's a lot of research studies done on academics, and how, especially
14:32with college students, where a large percentage, and I didn't have a number, of college students,
14:39they really admit to some form of academic dishonesty.
14:44And if you think about it now, which really includes plagiarism, in the past, you know,
14:49copying, right?
14:50But now, it's using, um, Gemini, Google Gemini, or ChatGBT, because they can do it so, it's
15:00much easier to do it.
15:02Um, so, academic dishonesty, um, there's, uh, dishonesty in the workplace, and, uh, this
15:10is when people lie on their resumes, right?
15:13Um, no, it's called embellish, okay?
15:17Let's get embellished.
15:19Okay, I'm sorry.
15:20Will we embellish the, the resume, or the CD, TV?
15:27Um, the other is, where so many people that hear this, they will understand where somebody
15:34else takes credit for you to work, and it's often your boss, where you don't turn everything
15:39in, and then they don't give you one look at credit, right?
15:42That's a form of dishonesty.
15:44It is.
15:45It is.
15:46And, um, wow, that's, that's touchy right there, where your name is not on that bond
15:52line, or your name is not on the report, and you know that you have contributed, but your
15:57boss takes it, or, um, your intellectual property, for that was my, your idea, or something like
16:04that, and that's, that's straight out, that's, that's, ooh, I don't know, I, yeah, yeah.
16:12And then, and then there's this, I, I imagine it's a newer, uh, category, but, uh, because
16:21of the digital age, there is a whole new way that there's dishonesty, um, online scams,
16:28the tech scams, the capture scams, social media is a way that people are dishonest because
16:35they are showing the face or a picture that's super, uh, uh, uh, edited, et cetera, et cetera,
16:45and they, how people in social media often present idealized versions of themselves, that
16:52is a, a form of dishonesty, so this, why I say this is a, a sticky category, because
16:58people lie every damn day.
17:03Every damn day.
17:06I mean, I mean, um, you, you have opened up a can of worms today, uh, and I want to thank
17:14you for this because, uh, uh, even though it may be on our mind about the degrees of dishonesty
17:22and even, um, um, you know, social media and I, is it dishonest?
17:28Um, are they, are people lying when they put filters on their, on their photos?
17:33Yes.
17:33And I'll hold my head down because I don't want, or.
17:37Well, listen, I don't know if it's malicious.
17:39But they, we want to, or they want to present themselves as something, you know, that they're
17:50not.
17:51None.
17:51Oh.
17:52Absolutely.
17:53Oh.
17:54So, plastic surgery?
17:58To be a foreign.
17:59Lies.
18:00Okay.
18:01All right.
18:02So, wow, you have really, you have taken me there today and I, I hope that, um, those
18:09of you that are listening, that you're, you're, uh, reflective as well, because, uh, we do
18:15it every, even if we say, um, you look nice today and you're like, no, I mean, in the back
18:23of your mind, it's like, Ooh, what?
18:26I'm so glad that you said that because in this next clip, it's going to, we're going to look
18:30at five different ways that we lie.
18:32And I guarantee you, that's the reason why I'm saying we can't escape it.
18:37I'm going to find myself in these five.
18:41I'm going to find myself, not me.
18:44Oh, yeah.
18:46I mean, I can even imagine that I would see you show up at all here.
18:50At all.
18:51At all.
18:52Okay.
18:53You fool.
18:54Most of the lies that we tell are everyday white lies, and these generally fall into five
19:02categories.
19:04Lies about our feelings and opinions.
19:07I love that shirt.
19:09It's your color.
19:11Our plans or our whereabouts.
19:13Oh, I already donated at work.
19:16A lot.
19:17Our knowledge, achievements, or even our failings.
19:20I'm a constitutional law expert on Twitter, explaining our actions or behaviors.
19:27Ah, sorry.
19:27I am late.
19:28Car trouble.
19:29The rotator splint or something.
19:31Or personal facts or possessions.
19:34I, I don't have any change at all.
19:36I don't like money.
19:38Bitcoin only.
19:40Gariah.
19:41He that tickled me.
19:43In every clip, I can find myself in everyone.
19:52Everyone.
19:52In everyone.
19:53Everyone.
19:54I have done that, and I, and next time that scenario hack comes up, you know, I, I don't
20:05know.
20:05How am I going to respond truthfully or, or I don't know, man.
20:10Well, there's, there's a lot of different ways, and I, you know, I, I, there was a, there
20:17was a point in my life where I embellished a lot in my early 20s.
20:21I didn't make things up, but I made the story.
20:24Ooh.
20:25I colored it in a lot when I.
20:27Colored it.
20:28Oh, colored it in.
20:30I love that.
20:31I colored it in.
20:33And I know that had a lot to do about myself and how I was thinking and feeling at the time.
20:38But, but where I'm at now, I, I, I say this very boldly.
20:43I say, I don't lie, which I already know is not the truth because we all lie in some
20:51ways every day, but I usually lie from a mission.
20:56I usually won't say anything, but if you ask me, I will tell you.
21:01And I usually preface it like this.
21:03I'm like, and I learned this in, in, you know, my training, um, Hey, I'll tell you,
21:10but tell me why it's really important for you to know this thing.
21:13If you can share with me why it's important and it makes sense to me that not even make
21:18sense, but it's like, Oh, I want to know because this, this, and this I'll go, you know,
21:23I don't feel like I want to share that with you or I'll go, Oh, okay.
21:26This is, I'll tell you that.
21:29Oh, wow.
21:30Wow.
21:31And you'll, you'll be truthful.
21:33I'll be truthful.
21:34Yeah.
21:35Yeah.
21:35But I'm going to know why you're asking me first.
21:37Right.
21:38Right.
21:39And why do you want to know that?
21:41And this response, yeah, that's, that's a great response to have.
21:45Um, yeah, because a lot of people can, couldn't handle the truth.
21:50And I guess, is that why we were, we lied to protect people's feelings and to protect
21:56our own feeling.
21:57Oh, okay.
21:59There was some part about this that says that we lie to protect other people for, for whatever
22:06reason.
22:07And then we also lied to protect ourself, our self-worth, or we like, Oh, you know, Oh yeah.
22:13I just, Oh, I just got a raise, you know, your cousins that have never seen you for five
22:19years in Florida and you're on the other side.
22:22Oh yeah.
22:22I just got a raise and I'd gotten your car.
22:24You just making yourself look good.
22:27Okay.
22:27Right.
22:28Right.
22:29Inflated, inflated.
22:31Inflated.
22:32Yes.
22:33Um, I don't know how that is helpful, but I, I have not, not lately.
22:41And I can't recall an instance now that I have, you know, done that, but I can think,
22:47what do you say into my early twenties or 20, yeah, around in there, I think so to make
22:53myself look, um, viable and make myself look, you know, better, better.
23:00Yeah.
23:01And it's all about our, our self and our sense of self.
23:05Now, the one part in this, that was probably going to be a part two, part three, part four,
23:10part five is about relationships, all relationships and lying.
23:16And the one thing that I found, which is so interesting, which is tied to, especially
23:22in relationships, lying to save face in a way and lying, because we want what we want.
23:29Right.
23:30And it comes up a lot.
23:32You know, you see, Oh, what was the name of that Netflix where the girl was the con
23:37woman and, and people want to believe that she's the heiress and they believe these things
23:42because what was her name?
23:44I did not watch that.
23:46Oh, it's so, it's so good.
23:49Okay.
23:49Okay.
23:50It's so good.
23:50But there was, there was obviously stuff going on with her.
23:54And then there was a one about the man who conned all the women.
23:56But the funny thing about it is there was something in it for them because he's wealthy.
24:03He's got all of this stuff and you want to believe the lives, right?
24:09Right.
24:09So I found this clip.
24:11There's, there's two parts of it.
24:14I'm not starting it.
24:17Yes.
24:18No, there's no, there's no hidden camera clip of you.
24:22But it was this woman who is successful and has had bad relationships in the past.
24:34And she did her due diligence when dating.
24:38So she found a man that she was interested in.
24:44And for, I believe it's months.
24:46I mean, we're not going to watch the whole thing, but I think for months,
24:48they just chatted back and forth and talk back and forth, asking right questions.
24:55He was interested in her.
24:57She was interested in him.
24:59But it ended up that there were lies anyhow.
25:02So here's what.
25:03There were lies anyhow.
25:04Okay.
25:04There were lies anyhow.
25:05Here's what she said.
25:08It was a voicemail.
25:10I got a call from him saying, Hey, my ex got your information and my son was speaking about you.
25:18She knows we're getting serious.
25:20She may be trying to call you to start some stuff.
25:23And I've been in a bad situation.
25:25I know what this looks like.
25:26I didn't think anything of it.
25:27I was like, I don't entertain foolishness.
25:29I'm not dealing with this people.
25:30I'm not answering the phone.
25:31So this man, when his wife started to catch on that something was going on, he was lying to her the whole time.
25:40So then he tries to head off the pass.
25:43Oh, okay.
25:45He calls her.
25:47Oh, okay.
25:48So he lies and said, it's my ex.
25:51Right?
25:51Right.
25:52Right.
25:52Right.
25:52My ex heard my son call your name and was curious who you were, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
25:59So he even brought his son into the lie.
26:02Right.
26:03Wow.
26:04Right.
26:05And so what we, what we didn't hear in that is she had gotten a phone call, uh, uh, the day before and she didn't pick it up because it was a, she didn't know the number.
26:17And, and, uh, it just happened to be that man's wife.
26:21That man's wife had got the phone number and called her.
26:25She didn't pick up because she didn't know.
26:26And then the man calls her, says, Oh, beware.
26:30My, my ex is trying to reach you.
26:33So he's already been lying for five months, but he's trying to still lie.
26:37Wow.
26:38Master manipulator.
26:40Yeah.
26:40Right.
26:41Yes.
26:41So, so, and, and, and, and so it, after it plays out, come to find out that he wasn't, uh, it wasn't an ex.
26:50He lived with this individual.
26:52They were married.
26:53And the funny thing that she says is that, uh, which she finally did talk to the, the wife and the wife said, uh, she didn't understand how the husband was with her.
27:08She goes, well, I got pictures of everything, everywhere that you've been.
27:12So wherever that man was with his wife, he took pictures when they're going out, but he cut his wife off every day.
27:18So he was giving this woman.
27:20Wait, wait, wait, wait, what?
27:22What?
27:22He was giving this woman an accurate depiction of what he was doing day to day.
27:27But if it included his wife, his wife, he cut her out.
27:30So she knew literally everything he was doing, but he was lying.
27:35He cut her out of it.
27:38So he really, she would have never known.
27:42And they were getting ready.
27:43He was getting ready to meet her.
27:45She was flying on a trip to Argentina.
27:47He said that he was going to meet her in Argentina.
27:49And then the wife found out about her.
27:52So here's this next one.
27:54We were having so many conversations that were important to when you start a relationship.
27:59Trying to ask questions about the past, how you interact with people, being honest about your style of communication.
28:06I specifically asked this man, when was his last relationship?
28:09How long did it go?
28:10Did it end?
28:11How many times has he been married?
28:13Is there anyone that thinks you're in a relationship with him?
28:15Is anyone going to be coming after me?
28:18That's a great question.
28:20That's a great question.
28:22Does anyone think that you're in a relationship?
28:26Absolutely.
28:27I know what that is.
28:28Does anyone think that you have been in a relationship?
28:31Man, she's asking the questions.
28:33She was asking all the questions.
28:36Right, right.
28:38And I'm sure he, this is, and see, in the back of my mind, I'm like, this is not his first time doing this.
28:46It can't be.
28:47No, because he was ready.
28:49And they're going to fly to Argentina.
28:51Right.
28:52Oh, okay.
28:53To where his wifey at?
28:56In Austin, in Texas.
29:00So, the funny thing that you said, he's done this before.
29:03Yes.
29:03The funny thing was when the wife called her, she said, well, I cut him off from talking to somebody five months ago.
29:11And she said, was that you?
29:14She goes, no, five months ago, I was in blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
29:18That wasn't me.
29:21So, you were right.
29:22It wasn't his first time.
29:24It was, couldn't have been.
29:25No.
29:26Yeah.
29:26He knew these, yeah, he knows what he's doing.
29:29So, when I was watching this, I was just thinking, people just will hunker down on their life.
29:38Oh, gosh.
29:40Stand ten toes down on it.
29:42Down on the life.
29:43Yes.
29:44And I don't understand, I mean, I guess I can understand it when you feel that your back is up against the wall.
29:51Maybe he feels that he's going to lose, like the wife, and some of the life that he has, you don't want to lose it.
29:59So, you just will continue to lie until the very end.
30:05The very end.
30:06And you'll hold on to it.
30:08I don't know.
30:09And I'm perplexed as to why that he would, you know, play that and then do it again.
30:15So, he's a repeat offender.
30:17And he, well, she's beautiful.
30:21So, I guess.
30:22Beautiful.
30:23Yes.
30:23Yes.
30:24And very intelligent.
30:26So, I know that she is not, you know, she, maybe she has been through this before, too.
30:32Maybe not with a married man, but, you know.
30:36She said she had a difficult relationship before.
30:39But my question for you, you know, like, sort of, we've been talking about lies, why we lie, what the definition of lies, this.
30:48And we could talk about relational lies much more, but in your life, has there been anybody who's lied to you that hurt you?
30:57Yes.
30:58And I don't know if it was lies or dishonest.
31:06And, I mean, you know, in just, or not telling me the whole story.
31:13Right.
31:14Are those lies?
31:17I think you could say, I think they're lies.
31:21Well, was it intense and was it meant to deceive?
31:28And I think that, you know, in my, when I finally got angry, they were lies.
31:35But I kind of, you know, before I was angry, it was just, you know, some dishonesty.
31:42And, you know, you're not telling me the whole story or you're keeping secrets.
31:46Right.
31:47You know, and you're holding back something.
31:49So you're holding back on me.
31:51But when I, you know, when I went to anger, then it was just all lies.
31:59Straight up lies.
31:59And when I went to betrayal, it was all lies.
32:04And see that, that, you know, dishonesty, betrayal, lies.
32:09And it just, yeah.
32:11And that hurt, and it took me a long time to really get that, get over that and get out, get it out of my system.
32:19Because I, I'm, I made space for this person.
32:24You know, I made space, complete space.
32:28I don't have secrets.
32:30You know, why am I, I'm not at that point where I have to, I'm not 25 or 23, you know, 30, where I have to try to puff myself up.
32:40What you see, this is what you get.
32:43And, and that's, it was a hurtful thing, man.
32:47It's hurtful.
32:47You know, I, I, it's hard to, it is hard to, let me put this.
32:57Difficult conversations are difficult.
33:02And being honest and having that difficult conversation, if someone asks you a question, or you have to talk to somebody about something where you have to be incredibly honest, they're difficult.
33:13And I can understand why some people lie.
33:19They, it may be lies with someone like, no, no, it's fine.
33:23No, everything's cool.
33:25We're good.
33:25No, no, no, no, no, no.
33:27Don't think, don't even think about it again.
33:30But that's not how they feel.
33:32And those kind of things hurt relationships because it breaks down its trust.
33:38So when you lie, and especially, there's sometimes when you tell, when you're dishonest, or, yeah, when you're dishonest, I won't say lie.
33:48Well, I will lie.
33:50No, no, no.
33:51When you're dishonest, it doesn't really hurt anybody.
33:54They don't really know.
33:57Right.
33:58Right.
33:58But lies hurt people.
34:02Lies.
34:04The dishonesty progresses.
34:06Just like the clips that you were saying, the dishonesty, it probably started out, you know, very minimal.
34:14And then it just, it just kind of escalated and compounded, you know, where it's just flat out.
34:21You just lie.
34:22You just lie about everything.
34:24And so dishonesty, unlike the way that you said, you know, dishonesty or lies and dishonesty, it doesn't start off that way.
34:35I don't think it starts off like that.
34:37Or in my case, I don't believe it started like that.
34:42But yeah.
34:42That's the way that it ended.
34:44You know, the new psychobabble term that's all over TikTok and Instagram, gaslighting and stuff, which people often misuse.
34:53But gaslighting is just a, it's a form of lying because it's meant to deceive someone.
34:59Have you seen that old, I think the movie for the 30s with Ingrid Vermin called Gaslighting or Gaslighting?
35:05I have not.
35:06I have not.
35:06It's a movie to watch, the old original movie, because this man gaslights his new wife and makes her think all this crazy shit is happening in the house to drive her crazy.
35:22Right.
35:22And ultimately, when we lie to someone, especially, can you imagine that man who lied, was lying to his wife and lying to the woman he was trying to date?
35:33Oh, he was, he was making his wife, like, think she's crazy.
35:38Crazy.
35:39Yes.
35:40Yes.
35:40Right.
35:42Right.
35:42And it's thinking it was all her.
35:44It was all her fault.
35:46All of it.
35:47And he, he probably said that to an extent, you know, and intentionally.
35:51Trying to, you know, um, put, uh, blow up an argument or something on when it was really him that, uh, he was just a master deceiver.
36:04Oh my gosh.
36:05We could probably, we could talk about lies.
36:08It does.
36:09Wow, man.
36:09And we could probably have some more specific stories, but that's not, that's not this podcast.
36:14That's not that.
36:15That's not it.
36:16And you know what?
36:16I even, I even wrote a song called lies and, uh, maybe I'll share it once about lies.
36:24Cause I may, I, I, I would like to, I would like to hear that.
36:28Yeah.
36:28I would like to hear that.
36:29But wow.
36:30But, but anyhow, it's been, this has been enlightening.
36:34I hope that there's, we haven't been lying in this.
36:38We haven't been lying, right?
36:40Nah, nah.
36:41Oh, you never, never, you ain't never lying.
36:46All right, this is it?
36:47All right, my people.
36:49Okay.
36:50Okay.
36:50Bye.
36:50Bye.
36:53That's like go time right now.
37:04Whatever.
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