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00:00it was on monday shortly after president trump had formally signed the first phase of the peace
00:15deal for gaza that ukraine's president vladimir zelensky took to social media to publicly praise
00:20him and he openly called on him to galvanize that energy that momentum to turn his attention
00:25to stopping russia attacking his country he urged president trump to apply peace through strength
00:31on his way back to egypt mr trump told reporters he might he might not allow ukraine to use its
00:36tomahawk missiles which would allow kiev to strike as far as moscow against russia's military targets
00:41supply logistics centers and also to restart the full weapons program to help ukraine defend its
00:47skies something that had been paused and limited to the trump administration took over now that
00:52seemed a possibility there was a degree of hope amongst ukrainian diplomats that changed 24 hours
00:56ago when news emerged of president trump having a two-hour conversation by phone with president
01:01putin both sides saying it was a positive meeting and that they would meet in person within two weeks
01:07taking place in hungary that may have changed the dynamic again and sets the scene for the meeting
01:12between the us and ukraine leader in the oval office in the next hour that's already has history that's
01:18already made history after the row in february let's go to washington let's bring in fraser
01:22jetson our correspondent at the white house great to see you tonight fraser another night at the white
01:27house you and i were here talking you were outside the oval office when it all went wrong
01:32mrs zelensky uh back in february talk us through what's been happening since mr zelensky arrived
01:37and what the timings are
01:38i think that definitely is the worst case scenario and the ukrainians will definitely
01:46be looking to avoid that kind of scenario again they've been working a lot on the relationship
01:51with the u.s and they are in a much better position now zelensky arrived yesterday and has spent the day
01:57talking to various members of the cabinet including the energy energy secretary has also been talking
02:01to heads of big u.s defense companies companies like raytheon who produce the kind of missiles
02:07that the ukrainians have been using on the battlefield and that they they with the help of
02:12their allies have been buying from the u.s and were given by the u.s under previous administrations
02:18so zelensky is coming to the white house today at around 1 p.m local time around 7 p.m
02:25in paris but this is so far looking like a different meeting to what we've seen before
02:31before we had the press pool assembled in the oval office for that now infamous meeting that went down
02:37in february but also at one time since then there has been a meeting in the oval office where the press
02:42have got to ask questions to the two men that at the moment will not be happening currently the arrival
02:50is open press which will be happening just behind me but typically no questions get answered there
02:55and then the two men will be going straight into a working luncheon which will be taking place
03:01in the cabinet room now we do expect things to change very last minute here at the white house
03:07that happens very often that things change on a dime here so there is a chance that this could
03:12open to the press and we will get to ask some questions to the men but as things stand at the
03:17moment this is going to be a closed meeting between zelensky and trump inside the cabinet room
03:22fraser that is fascinating because you wonder whether there's an official reason given to it
03:27what the suggestions are as to the reason to it because to apply the analysis of once bitten twice shy
03:33that the optics perhaps haven't aged well for the white house eight months on
03:37well of course since that first meeting they have had the second meeting in the oval office
03:45uh where zelensky kind of had his redemption arc inside the oval in front of the world's press
03:50so it's unclear whether that is what impacted things or whether it was a ukrainian ask that
03:57this be closed to the press now of course zelensky is masterful of using the press to his advantage
04:02much like donald trump is the two men uh very much understand the value of press and talking to the
04:08press and putting things out in public to kind of become a self-fulfilling prophecy i will say
04:13uh one of the only times that we've really heard of a delegation asking for the meeting with trump
04:18to be closed uh was when the king of jordan arrives here he wanted exactly what zelensky's having a
04:24closed working lunch in the cabinet room and it was the white house who then got him to change tack
04:29and go forward with the sit down by the the oval office fire so whether again the white house has
04:36has requested this or whether the ukrainians have requested it is currently unclear but at the
04:40moment the situation very much that this will be closed to the press unless of course one party
04:45or both decide to change that stay with us fraser let's bring kira reddick into the conversation
04:50kira is in kiev the leader of the liberal holos party or voice one of the most prominent figures in
04:55ukrainian politics welcome to france 24 kira great to have you back with us and if i remember rightly it
05:00was the three of us back then back in february and again for that second meeting in the white house
05:04between mr zelensky and mr trump the two presidents give me your reading going into this knowing what
05:11happened 24 hours ago with that two-hour conversation between trump and putin what you're hoping what
05:17you're expecting from the next few hours
05:19well obviously we hope that this meeting will go much much much better than the one that we both
05:31were witnessing previously however you know given the previous relations with the united states
05:39and previous actions when we have received necessary weaponry i will be rather relieved
05:45if there will be no comments after this meeting because if we look back we will see that there was
05:51not announcement that hatred missile systems are already in ukraine uh russians were able only
05:58to witness them when they were taking down russian missiles same was happening with the fighter jets that
06:05we were desperately needing and it was announced that there there is a decision made but nobody actually
06:11knew when and where they would appear and right now they are protecting our sky so for everybody's sake
06:17i really hope that if the decision about the tomahawk missile systems is being made then russians would
06:24only learn about it after the successful attacks on their military facilities and of course that the
06:30publicity will know it at that time so uh the biggest question right now is um was the meeting the call
06:39with uh vladimir putin impactful on president trump's decision making and uh at this time is he still in
06:48the mood to believe the illusions of russian dictator who has not given president trump anything since the
06:56beginning of full-scale invasion and uh since the beginning of trump's presidency and right now is
07:02uh honestly making him look bad and look weak does president trump have leverage now it feels like the last
07:10meeting in in alaska there was very hard to read what the leverage would be and both men went away and it
07:16seemed to go cold and we got that sense didn't we through social media the public diplomacy of president
07:21trump saying that you know he's essentially uh tagging me along that ultimately it's tapping away and
07:27nothing will happen now with the tomahawk saying to the press on the plane on the way back from egypt we
07:32might we might not some analysts saying actually he's deliberately using that as negotiating tactic how do you
07:38see it uh it could be a negotiating tactic obviously but um the question is why is president trump agreeing
07:47to a meeting with putin without any preconditions because beforehand he left the meeting in anchorage
07:54uh saying that there would be meeting between trump putin and zolensky or putin and zolensky and it turned
08:00out that russia didn't have any of that in mind um it uh seemed that president trump was pushing
08:07uh towards ceasefire nothing of that have happened so right now uh putin is just trying to
08:14win some time a couple of weeks more would be substantial for him and president trump seems to
08:20go along with that we just hope that at some point he will get annoyed at it especially given that it's
08:27not only ukraine and russia who are watching or even the france and the united states um all those
08:32countries who are shaking hands uh in meetings in china uh they are also watching very closely of how
08:40president trump will be reacting and i think that is the most important i don't anticipate any major
08:46breakthroughs done at the meetings between uh trump and putin however i think it will lay some ground to
08:53the meeting of trump and xi jinping i think what he learned in middle east was that you shouldn't be
08:59talking to uh the people who seem to be um aside you should be talking to people who are standing
09:08behind one of the sides and talking to people who are sponsoring who are actually making the decisions
09:14i hope here he will also realize that china uh has a substantial influence on how the war is going
09:22and if you are able to agree with china and perhaps india then you can actually hit russia where it hurts but
09:30aside of this let me make it very clear that as of right now president trump has not put any pressure
09:38onto russia ukraine has done everything by the book we have done everything from our side including voting in
09:44parliament for the rare minerals deal including agreeing to unconditional ceasefire including
09:50zelensky agreeing to uh meetings with putin uh whatever is offered including us our delegation coming
09:58to istanbul uh to meet with russian delegation but there has not been any pressure put onto russia and
10:05right now is time to do that obviously so president trump has not used any of his cards using his words
10:13that he seemed to be having listening to to kira a phrase a very interesting point kira is raising
10:19particularly about china it speaks of the wider geopolitics because ahead of this visit the u.s
10:23treasury was talking about european allies establishing with ukraine this so-called sort of
10:28ukraine that they call it victory fund to which i think i'm right in saying that they were using
10:32some of the money from chinese tariffs basically potentially to um for to to bankroll uh ukraine's
10:41weapons this is a tariffs uh i think one alternative trump's called is the russian oil tariff talk us
10:46about this plan a significant part of that as well as to use uh frozen russian assets as well to kind
10:55of take that money and kind of turn it against uh russia but uh the idea here really as we as we heard is
11:02that the two kind of countries really that are propping up russia's russia's war effort are the two
11:08countries that are still buying the majority of the thing that is funding its war effort it's oil
11:13and gas industry uh so uh donald trump of course has already spoken to the indians prime minister
11:18modi has said that he's not going to be buying any more russian oil and gas going forwards uh so
11:24donald trump in the wake of that announcement said that he would then need to start talking to the
11:28chinese and it is really that which could change the tide of the war if donald trump wanted to do it in
11:34a more kind of roundabout way as opposed to through a direct negotiation ceasefire sit down between the
11:40two parties so effectively would force donald uh would force vladimir putin's hands and make him
11:47come to the table because he wouldn't be able to fund this war anymore uh and in the meantime the
11:53money uh that the u.s says it can get from tariffs and also from uh the russian frozen assets would be
11:59used to help fund the ukrainian side of the war by buying more weapons uh which again would be uh
12:06put back into the pockets of u.s defense companies like raytheon and lockheed martin the very companies
12:11that uh vladimir zelensky has been meeting with while he's been here kira phrases points about india
12:18and china being those key players if you look at the figures with russia struggling at the moment with
12:23this with this oil with this gas with some independent supplies having problems again ukraine drones
12:28targeting refineries and that's where the tomahawk comes in as well we're told analysts saying that
12:33actually that would be a key uh aim for ukraine to try to hit more refineries listen to this figure
12:39new delhi between 2022 and 2025 india accounting for 38 percent of russian crude oil 19 percent of russian
12:48coal to fraser's point you know considering this a big step having narendra modi saying we won't buy
12:54anymore do you see president trump is making a big difference that transactional geopolitics
13:01is changing the game in ukraine
13:02um we of course appreciate all the promises and all the statements but um we will believe it when we
13:11see it because the truth is given if you look at the situation here on the ground in ukraine
13:17after everything that we know happened geopolitically after the things that happened in the white house
13:23uh in spring uh after meeting in anchorage after uh all the negotiations after what happened in the
13:30middle east the truth is here on the ground things didn't change much russia keeps attacking us
13:36people have gotten some hope by president trump's statements that right now only led us to the very
13:44very complicated winter uh you see that russia continues attacking our energy infrastructure
13:50and trying to weaponize winter against people we have experienced energy and water outages uh in kiev
13:58over the last week so um it's very important that this significant statement are made but the main
14:07question is would we survive until it will uh take action and important question for europe as well
14:15would europe survive until that will take action because i think we need to be talking and uh
14:21discussing openly about the recent uh drone attacks uh on uh poland and romania about violating airspace
14:31uh about different kinds of unnamed drones that appear here and there on the strategic
14:37areas of europe and it shows you clearly that putin not only doesn't have any intention to end the
14:44war but that he sees an opportunity to to expand it and to threaten europe more a quick thought i mean
14:51you mentioned very interesting points first of all denis smirhal the defense minister in ukraine
14:55saying that in terms of hard cash from europe from ukraine it's going to be another 120 billion
15:00dollars to fund its defense against russia for the course of the next year into 2026 now in two
15:06weeks time within two weeks in hungary victor orban is going to play a significant part mediating
15:12essentially or being there between president putin president trump as the two men meet remember
15:17there is hungary well there is an icc warrant for the arrest of president putin hungary has signed up
15:23to it hungary has opted out of it but that doesn't kick in until next year so there will be grounds
15:28for the arrest what victor orban said won't be carried out what do you make of him mr orban as a
15:34independent guarantor of a potential peace deal
15:37well to be an independent guarantor you need to have very strong political position i do not see that
15:45mr orban does have it especially in lieu of the next elections and my question about this meeting which
15:52we honestly don't actually know that would happen there is no guarantee to that is we know uh like
15:59when you look at the map you see where the moscow is and you see where hungary is so i just wonder
16:05which european countries will open the airspace to for putin to get to hungary and how it's going to be
16:12done uh because i don't see right now uh many european leaders stepping up and saying oh yes we are
16:18willing to do that to open it for the international terrorists and uh to allow him to be where icc
16:25obviously will not arrest him so i think right now it just seems as a plan to drag uh the negotiations
16:34and win some time for putin to find a way to fool president trump even more so let's see closer to
16:41the situation if that's going to happen but i think everybody is very cautious and understands that
16:47victor orban cannot be a guarantor of anything kira it's always good to talk to you it's always good
16:54to get your context kira rudik leader of the holos party the liberal opposition in ukraine we will speak
16:59to you soon we will keep an eye out on the coming hour fraser thank you as well we'll keep an eye out
17:04what's going on what is accessible to the press and come back to you as and when we know fraser
17:08jackson or correspondent in washington
17:10you
17:11you
17:11you
17:12you
17:12you
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