- 6 months ago
A political controversy has erupted in Bihar over the Special Intensive Role Revision (SIR) of the voter list, with the Election Commission (EC) facing accusations from the opposition, led by Rahul Gandhi, of 'vote theft' favouring the BJP.
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00:00All right, it's an all-out war between the opposition and the Election Commission.
00:06The playground is the state of Bihar.
00:08The bone of contention this time, the face-off between the Election Commission and the opposition,
00:14is the SIR, the Special Intensive Role Revision Exercise by the EC in the state of Bihar.
00:22Leader of Opposition Rahul Gandhi has made a sensational claim against EC.
00:28Opposition leaders also protested outside the Parliament earlier today.
00:33Rahul Gandhi accused the Election Commission of vote theft, stealing votes,
00:38and that evidence in the form of an atom bomb was going to explode soon.
00:43Rahul also said that EC was stealing votes on behest of BJP
00:48and that his earlier claims related to voter list manipulation in Maharashtra and other places were true.
00:54He also said that he will very soon come out with a bare-all.
01:00EC, meanwhile, has hit back against allegations and said that they are baseless
01:04and asked the officials to not pay heed to such irresponsible statements.
01:08Kiran Rijiju said that a discussion on SIR was not possible in Parliament.
01:13Meanwhile, the India Bloc held a protest outside the Parliament today.
01:17Opposition leaders held placards raising slogans demanding suspension of SIR.
01:21Our opposition leaders also wrote on the Lok Sabha chair demanding a discussion on SIR
01:26in a session amidst ruckus and adjournments.
01:30All of these viewers view this in the backdrop of the first voter list being now published,
01:36where Bihar was concerned.
01:38The election commission is involved in the vote.
01:41I don't say lightly, I'm saying 100% proof.
01:44I'm saying 100% proof.
01:49The election commission is involved in the vote.
01:52The election commission is involved in the vote.
01:54And I don't say lightly, I'm saying 100% proof.
01:59What about the vote?
02:00Let me tell you, the election commission is involved in the vote.
02:04The election commission is invited after a vote.
02:08and we are going to be here for the election.
02:16Open and shut is no question.
02:21There was a suspicion in Madhya Pradesh,
02:29the people were suspicious.
02:33so we got a little bit further, we thought that we had a vote on the state level,
02:39there was a voter addition, there were 1 crore voters added, then we got a little detail,
02:45we said that the election commission doesn't help us, so we have to go a little granularity
02:49and go a little, so we have to do our investigation.
02:55It took 6 months, and what we got,
03:01it was an atom bomb, it means an atom bomb, it will break,
03:07then the election commission will not see you in Hindustan.
03:11Okay, one more thing, one more thing,
03:16which is the most important thing,
03:18and I'm very seriously saying this,
03:22whoever the work is doing,
03:26whoever the work is doing in the election commission,
03:29right from the top to the bottom,
03:31you have to keep one thing,
03:32we will not leave you,
03:34we will not leave you,
03:35we will not leave you,
03:36because you are against Hindustan,
03:38this is treason,
03:40and this is less than not.
03:42If you are going to leave you,
03:45you will not leave you,
03:46if you are going to leave you,
03:48you will not leave you,
03:50we will not leave you.
03:51foreign
03:57foreign
04:05foreign
04:11foreign
04:17another day but same story once again the entire india block is protesting right outside the makar
04:43war in parliament right behind me you can see the visuals of opposition which is right now
04:48protesting and they're holding different placards which reads stop vote loot um also there is another
04:54poster which reads sir but what is more interesting here is that uh you know the
05:00opposition lps are holding another placard which has the cartoon photo of election commission of
05:06india election commissioner of india ganesh kumar and also pm arendra modi you can see as to how
05:12how uh it is uh mentioned yes sir and then um two sir on that particular placard and these placards
05:21have now surfaced and this has now become a unique way of protest by the opposition and please um
05:27uh india bloc has been protesting on the issue of sir since the beginning of the monsoon session and
05:33they have been demanding government to withdraw sir and again they are raising up uh these slogans
05:39against uh modi government remember that as far as this entire issue is concerned the uh sources in
05:46government have made it very clear that sir is an issue which pertains to the working of
05:51election commission of india and there cannot be any discussion on that but still the opposition
05:56continues to mount pressure on the government to have a discussion on this not only inside but also
06:02outside the parliament you should try in delhi for your day all right viewers there's one thing
06:09that you need to remember what you see on your television screen all of this is happening outside
06:13the parliament so the ec opposition face-off playing outside parliament but one second let me remind you
06:20the real playground lies all the way in bihar where the special intensive role revision has taken place and
06:26the latest on that is that uh the election commission of india after the intensive role revision has uh now
06:35published the first water list draft that is out and it's published it's been uploaded now it's released
06:43the bihar voter list uh and what we have been given to believe is 65 lakh names are likely removed from
06:52this voter list that's the initial estimate to which of course the ec says many of them are dead some of
06:58them have migrated some of them are missing but in all 65 lakh have been possibly removed in the first
07:07draft mind you it's just the first draft voters can check submit form 6 and object for referral until the
07:151st of september so there's one full month of doing so but uh i want to take all the questions swirling
07:22around the special intensive role revision to our panelists this evening sanju varma national
07:27spokesperson bjp is with us professor suraj mandal spokesperson congress amitabh devari political
07:32commentator ashutosh political analyst in the studio with me karan varma political analyst i'd like to
07:38begin with uh professor suraj mandal because professor mandal you know the theater or the amphitheater of
07:46this entire face-off with the ec is bihar but with what rahul gandhi said today that what you have
07:54your party has now investigated in the last six months is ammunition which can be comparable to an
08:02atom bomb when is the congress going to detonate this atom bomb when will we know the information that
08:09you've discovered i think first we should know what has really happened uh in january 2025 uh summary
08:19revision of the electoral roll was done and this was out before the people to see their names or if they
08:27have to protest now suddenly in june the election commission comes out with the fact that they have to
08:33do summary intensive revision now this word in the intensive was added to almost do away with all the
08:41previous voter lists and to begin making a new voter list with such rules as everybody would have to
08:48fill up the form now bihar is a state where many people uh go for earning outside all these factors are
08:55there but the most grievous uh uh uh you know worry was that either of these two electoral
09:03roles has to be okay now they have come up the election commission and even the bjp you know
09:09almost synchronizing with what the election commission had to say they were saying lacks of people are
09:16there as uh infiltrated like that there is now first of all if the earlier uh electoral roll was okay and
09:28fine then this electoral roll is a fake one and if this is fine then the earlier electoral roll
09:34on which basis mr narendra modi is in power on which basis mr nitesh kumar is in power in bihar
09:42is a fake one there are lots of infiltrators over there and suddenly you say that so many people
09:49not today's uh sir list which uh the uh the draft voter list has come they uh lacks of people are
09:57missing there now that it has nothing to do with people who have filed their papers and who have not
10:03fired we have seen how uh senior journalist ajit anjum almost every day put up a video and showing
10:10what all was happening in the ground and professor mondil your time is up you know you're new to the
10:17show just tell you the format two minutes to each spokesperson you've named a professor you've named
10:22a journalist but let me also tell you we've had our own journalists on ground who have raised
10:26apprehensions on the water list and it cuts both ways but i want to bring in sanju warma into this
10:31conversation sanju warma your two minutes begin right now because the first draft of the bihar
10:37voter list has been published of course redressal is on till the first of september the larger
10:43question sanju warma prama faisai over 65 lakh names are missing most of them understandably come
10:49in from c marchal you know preety let me make one thing very clear for the benefit of your audience
10:56bihar is a large state with 45 103 villages it is divided into nine divisions 38 districts 101 subdivisions
11:05and for administrative purposes there are 12 municipal corporations 88 nagar parishats and 154 nagar
11:12panchayats you know i would like to tell rahul gandhi through your shoe hats off to the 1.5 lakh blas
11:19hats off to the 1 lakh blos hats off to the 4 lakh volunteers hats off to the election commission and its
11:27243 officers who went to almost every village went to more than 5 600 polling booths spread across more
11:38than 90 90 000 polling stations spread across more than 261 urban local bodies such a mammoth such a
11:49gigantic such a gargantuan exercise completed in flat two months by the election commission
11:56and its staff so rahul gandhi so through your channel i want to say stop demonizing our institutions
12:16election commission is conducting the sir exercise while the park bestowed on it under the constitutions
12:23article 324 325 326 sir is completely valid as per representation of people's act 1950 51 sir is
12:34completely valid as per registration of electoral rules 1960 but most importantly it is this
12:41after the election commission par bharosa nahi rahul gandhi first resign from your raibarali seat
12:48priyanka wadra resigns from your why not seat will manish tiwari resign from chandigarh will
12:54the time is up your faders want to automatically go down i'm going to quickly bring in amitabh tiwari
12:59before we go to our political analyst amitabh tiwari in totality this is now clearly coming to her
13:04head if the opposition is threatening of an atom bomb they need to tell us the time of detonation
13:09number one number two juxtapose all of this in the backdrop of the first draft being published
13:15today of the voter list in bihar now essentially this this entire thing we have to see in the
13:21background of a complete breakdown of communication and a trust deficit between the opposition and the
13:26government and also the lack of trust which the opposition parties are now constantly showing with
13:33the election commission of india now 8.2 percent almost names have been deleted now this is a big
13:42number it's not a small number in any case however if we see the breakdown almost 22 lakh people
13:51are presumed to be dead and 36 lakh have permanently shifted or are untraceable so this
13:58this 58 lakh people almost either were on they could not have just died or vanished in the past
14:08let's say six months or after the looks of elections this number is huge so either they were by mistake
14:14on the list so we need to first understand whether this 58 lakh people voted in the 2024 looks of my
14:21elections or not because that would give us whether there was uh or what was the extent of the fact
14:28that they were on the rolls in january this year amitabji yeah so let's say in the past six months as
14:34you are mentioning it can be an error also because in india when a person dies the debt certificate is
14:41issued but the municipal corporation there is no communication between the various government
14:47departments so the municipal corporation does not send the list of people who die to the election
14:52commission of india correct so there can be an error if it's an error is a huge error because it's a
14:57significant chunk of people 58 lakhs the number which everybody was waiting for and is not there in
15:03the list is how many illegal immigrants or non-citizens or ineligible citizens were found in this exercise
15:11it seems it is none correct so now we'll have to wait and see and the operation parties will now have
15:18to identify these people to make their charges valid amitabji we'll come back to you ashutosh i want to
15:23bring you in because let's look you know let's look at bihar and then we'll come down to the opposition
15:28in delhi because now 8.2 percent of voters who are missing from the first draft of the voter list as per our
15:36ground reports and estimation that comes to about 64 lakh voters that's a huge lot in an election where
15:44if you just go by the last election in bihar where you know seats were lost if not by just a thousand even
15:51hundreds uh see pretty i think uh this is what amitab has said i completely agree with him i completely
16:01agree with him in my uh more than three decades of old journalism career i had never seen this kind of
16:06total breakdown between the government and the opposition i had never seen something like this
16:11this is extraordinary this is exceptional and this is dangerous for the democracy
16:15secondly i had also not seen this kind of bitterness between the election commission
16:19and the opposition that shows election is not only about uh about government and the election commission
16:26election election is also not about about election commission and the position election is all about
16:31election commission opposition and the government and if opposition has total distrust in the whole
16:38process then the then what will happen to the democracy what will happen to the legitimacy of the
16:44election that's a big question and i think that needs to be sorted out if we want to save democracy in
16:49in this country otherwise there will be opposition vipak shamukta bharat ban jayega
16:53Now it will be interesting to know that this number has come across all caste, all religion, all kinds of people from middle class to the upper class to the lower class to all from the Dalits
17:22to the upper caste. Why I am saying so? Because in this country, the poorest of them all belongs to the Dalits and to the EBCs. And they are the most disadvantaged. They are the most least privileged section of the society. They do not have all kinds of facilities to get their certificates made and got it done.
17:47That's why it's very, very, it will be very, very interesting and intriguing to know from which section of the society these numbers have been deleted or found in not, did not find place in the election.
17:59Karan, you know, once again, we'll come back to what happened in Delhi, where you have the opposition. Reflect for once on what's happening in the state of Bihar. The first draft is out of the voter list.
18:09Just with what we are getting to know right now, it's only been published post 3 p.m. this evening. We are still skimming through the data. And it does seem over 64 lakhs, close to 65 is what, you know, we are picking up in terms of voters have been deleted from this list.
18:25The break up of who has been deleted from where isn't coming through. Ground reports seem to tell us that most of it comes in from Simanchal, which many thought was expected, especially by the opposition.
18:38So, Priti, I don't think we should be surprised that it's come from Simanchal, where we saw an Aadhaar saturation of more than 100%, 127%.
18:46Where are you getting that number from?
18:47That's been the number out, right, from day one.
18:49Who has reported it? Where is that? Because I'm sorry, I'm coming in, I'll stop the clock.
18:53Because I'll tell you why I'm saying this, Karan, because it's important to disseminate this information right away.
18:58If we haven't had a census from 2011, where are we getting Aadhaar saturation figures from of 100% in Simanchal? Just journalistic inquisition.
19:07Where are we getting these numbers from? It can't be so easily extrapolated.
19:10So, if we compare the voter rolls, the number of people on the voter rolls and the Aadhaar dissemination in that district, it is 127% in certain areas.
19:22Like, I'm forgetting the name, maybe Araria and certain districts, it's more than 100%.
19:26That's how we're getting those numbers.
19:29You compare the list of the voters in the electoral roll and the Aadhaar disseminated by the UIDAI.
19:34So, that's number one.
19:35Now, you know, Priti, we did not have such shows when 22 lakh voters were deleted in Telangana, did we?
19:42And who won, by the way, in Telangana?
19:44It was the Congress Party that won after 22 lakh voter deletion.
19:46Who won in Karnataka, where we had close to 4.5 lakh voter deletion?
19:51It was again the opposition.
19:52It was the Congress Party.
19:53Who won in West Bengal, by the way, in 2021?
19:56Again, we had a deletion of close to 5 lakh votes.
19:59This kind of logic and this kind of rhetoric, I must say, is so irresponsible coming from the leader of the opposition.
20:05Ashutosh Ji is right.
20:07Election commission should be about election commission.
20:09The party in power, but opposition.
20:11But what does the election commission do if they write a letter to Rahul Gandhi on 12th June and he doesn't reply?
20:16They send him a reminder, he again doesn't reply.
20:19And then he resorts to this language that it will be bomb blast.
20:21I will see one-one.
20:23I will leave anyone.
20:24What sort of language is this?
20:26You don't have any proof to present.
20:28Sometimes you blame the EBM.
20:30You don't give anything in writing.
20:31You don't reply.
20:32You come up with the most outlandish claims where you've been wrapped on the knuckles by different courts, by the way.
20:38Different judges in the past.
20:39I can give you examples.
20:40Justice Hemant Prashar said, your remarks breach modesty and moral turpitude.
20:45When he said, the Supreme Court reprimanded him when he said, the Supreme Court is coming from the Supreme Court.
20:53So this man was in Lucknow recently, where he said, our sin had been kicked.
20:57And he had to apologize for that.
20:58You can't make these outlandish claims, not come up with a single shred of proof.
21:02And when the EC writes to you, you don't even respond.
21:05So what does one do if an opposition has taken this path of complete anarchy in the constitutional setup?
21:11You have to engage.
21:12The onus is on you then.
21:13All right, your time is up, Karun.
21:14I just want to put one thing, you know, the fact is extrapolation as simple of Aadhaar and voter cards is a bit or rather a far stretch error.
21:22But having said that, the same voters voted in 2024, suddenly we have reached a point of saturation.
21:29We'll reflect on all of this.
21:30I want to give all our spokespersons one minute each to reflect on what has happened in terms of the first draft of the voter list being uploaded.
21:40And then we'll move on to our political stock exchange, where we have data coming in, especially on the minority vote,
21:48because a lot has been said about the Muslim vote bank in the state of Bihar, which could be compromised, would be compromised, should be compromised.
21:57All of that being addressed in the next half hour where the political stock exchanges.
22:01But very quickly, one minute each to all our panelists.
22:05Let's begin with Professor Suraj Mandel.
22:08Professor Suraj Mandel, I just want to, you know, before you give your remarks on that, you know, should the leader of opposition have come out and practically not wailed, issued an open threat to the EC?
22:19That we'll deal with you when the time comes.
22:21Go ahead, sir.
22:22No, no, it has.
22:23What has happened in last three Avidanshava elections, the voter list was not been given to the Congress party.
22:31They had to go to Supreme Court.
22:32One gentleman is saying about the proof.
22:35What more proof you want?
22:37We are not holding the elections.
22:38And what happened in Bangladesh, you are repeating exactly the same thing Election Commission is doing over here.
22:45And you make this image that it is a constitution body.
22:49I'm sorry, it is not doing its work properly.
22:53It has given a statement saying that none of the statements of the opposition party should be at all taken into cognizance by the election officers.
23:05What is this?
23:06You are being a spokesman of BJP.
23:08So, and the situation has come.
23:11One gentleman said opposition, Mukt Bharat.
23:13I think that was what Sheikh Hasina did in Bangladesh.
23:17And then opposition was, were forced to boycott the election.
23:21This may be the situation in Bihar.
23:23Sir, your time is up.
23:24I'll come back to you now after, you know, we start giving out data.
23:27But one minute, Sanju Verma.
23:29Your comments on the Bihar first draft voter list.
23:33Time begins now.
23:36Rishi, let me make one thing very clear.
23:38In the last 11 years of the Modi government, 31,000 fake NGOs, 4.7 lakh fake companies, 6 crore fake ration cards, 4 crore fake LPG connections, 4.5 crore fake Manrega cards, 8.5 lakh fake midday meal beneficiaries and 100,000 fake teachers
23:57were weeded out of the system.
23:59So, for anyone asking, you know, do you really think that, you know, there are duplicate voters?
24:05You know, please go and look at the data of last 11 years.
24:08We've weeded out duplications across the board.
24:12The second point, what Karan said, we lost Bengal.
24:166.7 lakh voters had been deleted.
24:18Kya, aapne show par aate hai, BJP ke kisi nepa ne ronad hona kiya?
24:21As Karan said, 22 lakh voters were deleted in Telangana.
24:25We lost Telangana.
24:25Rahul Gandhi dhe toh bahat taliyah bajayin.
24:29Did Preeti Chaudhary ask Rahul Gandhi, why is it that you are clapping now despite voter
24:34decision in Telangana?
24:35No.
24:35But questions be...
24:37Madam Preeti Chaudhary had asked the Congress.
24:39I haven't had an audience with Rahul Gandhi yet, but I definitely asked the Congress spokesperson
24:42who was here.
24:43But Amitabh ji, one minute begins now, sir.
24:46Final submissions.
24:48It's also a situation wherein the goalpost is being shifted, I would say.
24:53We started from weeding out illegal citizens or voters.
24:57I don't think that number is still out.
25:00If there are such high number of voters who have died or have permanently shifted, then
25:06this should have been captured in a summary revision.
25:09It means that there are significant errors in our current voter list and we need an SIR for
25:16just updating normal things like death and addition of voters and this needs to be a countrywide
25:23exercise.
25:24Third is it is not like Maharashtra where a post-mortem analysis the opposition can do.
25:30The opposition has a chance here.
25:32If they feel that these voters exist and are in Bihar or have not or are alive, then they
25:40need to present these voters because the numbers are 83 per booth.
25:45Correct.
25:46And they have significant agents who can bring up these or expose voters.
25:51Amitabh ji, you'll have to hold that thought.
25:52Ashutosh ji, one minute, please.
25:54Final concluding statements on the first draft of the voter list.
25:57See, Preeti, I think either of the chief election commissioner and the election commissioner
26:03should be accountable.
26:05That if 64 lakhs were unwanted people who were excluded from the list, then during the
26:13last revision which has taken place, who was the chief election commissioner and why this
26:17has happened?
26:18Is there any accountability of that election commission or not?
26:22That means something illegal was happening.
26:24Election commission was in no position to stop that.
26:27Or it has been, or secondly, these 65 lakh voters, if genuine voters were made, got
26:36their numbers into the list, then who was the beneficiary?
26:40The opposition was the beneficiary or the government was the beneficiary?
26:44And who, in whose favor these votes were polled?
26:48That, these are the two important questions which has to be answered.
26:51But I can still give the benefit or not because it's still a draft list.
26:56The final list still has to come.
26:58Well, I just want to put it out there.
26:59This is the first draft.
27:00There is redressal to the 1st of September.
27:02You can go on to the EC website, check your names or submit form 6 and you have time till
27:07the 1st of September.
27:09Karan, one minute.
27:10You know, Ashutosh Ji has asked a very valid question.
27:13Who actually is the beneficiary of this?
27:15You know, if Revant Reddy were to be believed at that time in 2023, Asaduddin Ovesi's name
27:21came up in two electoral rolls.
27:23And he said the biggest beneficiary of this is always AIMIM.
27:26And 5 lakh voters were, by the way, deleted in Hyderabad.
27:28Asaduddin Ovesi still went on to win.
27:30So that is the Congress's stand.
27:31And by the way, on 15th November 2024, Gulam Ahmed Meer, who is the Congress's Jharkhand
27:38in chief, made a statement that we will give gas cylinders even to the illegals.
27:43He went on to say even to the illegals.
27:45So who is pandering to the illegals?
27:47Who is trying to appease them?
27:48It's quite clear out in the open.
27:50I also agree with his point that there should be accountability.
27:53Of course, there should be accountability.
27:54There are illegals which need to be weeded out.
27:57But then who are those who go to the Supreme Court whenever there is a petition or anything
28:00to weed them out?
28:02Why do we have a stay on whether it's the Rohingyas or any of the infiltrators?
28:06We, I honestly believe, and I think the BJP is buckled under pressure as far as that is
28:10concerned.
28:10We need an NRC in this country.
28:12All right.
28:13Many say this is a backdoor NRC which is taking place.
28:15That is also a point of contention with the top court of the country.
28:18What I'm going to do right now is going to cut into data of political stock exchange where
28:25we've done a sample test because there was so much, and this has been conducted, let
28:29me remind you, by Sea Voter, because there was so much talk, commentary, when it came
28:35down to the minority vote.
28:36There were apprehensions where the Muslim vote was also concerned that many of them will
28:40lose or be disenfranchised where their voting rights are concerned, especially where it
28:45came down to the Sea Manchal Belt.
28:47What we've done, have conducted a quick snap poll.
28:50I'm going to quickly give out the first three questions.
28:53And in this, we've divided our respondents in categories of Muslims, others.
28:58And then, of course, you'll have a total figure.
29:00I want to quickly go on to our first question that was posed by Sea Voter to the respondents.
29:04How important is Muslim vote in Bihar elections?
29:08Very important, 80.5%.
29:10Understandably, that answer was by Muslim respondents.
29:14Others say 44%.
29:16Nearly 50% of the respondents who are part of the Bihar electorate seem to suggest that
29:22the Muslim vote is key.
29:24Therefore, if you infer from that, if you cut that vote, that could very well be problematic
29:29to certain vote banks and parties.
29:32Will Waqf bill impact your voting decision?
29:35This was also a question that was posed.
29:37The answer to that, Muslims, 68.1% responded, yes, it will.
29:4142.9% said, of the others said, yes, it will.
29:46Total 47.4%.
29:48So about 47.4%, which is close to the 50% mark, feel that their voting choice in the election
29:55in Bihar will be impacted by the Waqf bill.
29:59How important is caste identity in your voting decision?
30:03Very important, Muslims 46.2%, others 37%.
30:06Interesting, in a state like Bihar, only 38.7% have told us that caste identity, in fact,
30:13is key when it comes down to voting patterns.
30:15Because usually what we've seen is contrary empirical evidence on ground,
30:20where usually that election in Bihar are dominated by caste.
30:24But this figure is contrary to that.
30:28Then, opinion on BJP's outreach efforts to Muslim voters.
30:32Has the BJP been able to reach out to the Muslim vote?
30:37Muslims only feel, 16.2% of the respondents feel, in the Muslim vote respondents who we spoke to,
30:45that yes, the BJP has reached out.
30:4725.4% say no.
30:49Others say that they have reached out.
30:51Overall, 23.8%, that's it, of the total respondents in Bihar that were asked this question,
31:00feel that the BJP has done a good job in reaching out to the minority vote bank.
31:05Most actually feel it's symbolism.
31:08Look at the third line from there, where 50.8% of Muslims feel it's symbolism,
31:12and about 37% of others also feel it's purely symbolic.
31:17That means it's an eyewash.
31:18I want to quickly cut across, immediately, to our panelists this evening.
31:24And I'd like to begin this time with Amitabh Tiwari.
31:26Amitabh Tiwari, you'll get a two-minute time.
31:28Interesting keeping in mind all the caste calculations, permutations,
31:33the importance of the Muslim vote, the percentage of the Muslim vote.
31:36What do these numbers speak to you?
31:39So, see, obviously, the Muslim vote is important,
31:42and that's what the survey shows,
31:44because around 17 to 18% of the population is Muslim population.
31:49However, if you look at the 32 seats where they are a dominant force,
31:55in 2020, the NDA won 18 of them,
31:59the Mahagadwandan 8,
32:01and 6 went to, or 5 went to the AIMIM.
32:04So, polarization plays a big role wherever the Muslim population is high.
32:08Even if you see the districts or the administrative zones
32:11where the Muslim population is high,
32:14starting from Purnia, the Mahagadwandan, lost to NDA.
32:19The second part is that Waqf will play a role,
32:22but I think Waqf, only less than 50% people are agreeing to the fact
32:27that Waqf is going to play a big role.
32:29I don't think it's going to be a very big matter.
32:30On the basis of caste, I think you said almost 30% said very important,
32:38I think, 30, but if you add, or rather 39% said very important,
32:43but if you add somewhat important also, you get a number of 60%.
32:46And in 2018, when Aziz Premzi University did a survey,
32:51almost 57% people in Bihar said that they prefer the leader of their own caste group.
32:59So, caste plays a very, very important role.
33:02The other side to look at it is that 47% people,
33:06or rather here in your survey also almost 40% people
33:09say that they would be voting on different lines,
33:12which would be development issues, etc.,
33:14which is an encouraging factor in that way.
33:17With regard to the Muslim outreach of the BJP,
33:20however, I think despite efforts being made by the BJP
33:24and despite their claims that almost 30% to 35% of beneficiaries
33:29of central government schemes as well as state government schemes
33:33belong to the Muslim community,
33:35only 35% of the people say that the efforts of the BJP are sincere
33:43or are somewhat sincere.
33:44Still around.
33:45Well, you're right there, Amitabh Ji.
33:46If you actually, where you talk about, you know,
33:48will you vote on caste, somewhat important, 21%,
33:51and if you club it all together, it falls about 55% to 60% in between
33:55is what Bihar thinks.
33:56But interesting numbers there.
33:58Sanju Verma, no matter what you try,
34:00no matter how many Muslim outreach programs the BJP embarks on,
34:03forget about the Muslims, at least in Bihar,
34:06even others are not buying it.
34:09You know, Preeti, now, I hope you will not interrupt me.
34:13You have a thick skin as a journalist
34:15and you always ask me tough questions.
34:17But there's a video of yours which has gone viral.
34:20And I'm so glad about it.
34:21And I was just looking at it.
34:23You know, you were saying prior to the Maharashtra elections,
34:27I could not find a single BJP supporting voice in Marathi, Wada.
34:32And the BJP won 4-0.
34:3540 seats from Marathi, Wada, in the Maharashtra assembly elections.
34:40The dot-dot alliance, as in Mahavina Shagari, won a royal five seats.
34:45So, Preeti, with no offense to you, you are a dear friend.
34:48The fact is that let's not get ahead of ourselves.
34:51Point number one.
34:52Now, let me talk about what Ashutosh said.
35:02He said, what election commission is doing is extraordinary,
35:06exceptional, dangerous, and election commission needs to be accountable.
35:11Ashutosh Gupta, election commission is a constitutional body.
35:14It is not accountable to Rahul Gandhi, who is now behaving like a street hooligan,
35:19saying, I have an atom bomb.
35:21If you have any decency, please question the leader of opposition,
35:25who showcases lack of basic decency.
35:29Now, the third point.
35:30You know, Amitav Tiwari made an interesting point.
35:33That the Muslim outreach might be, you know, 35% plus in terms of penetration,
35:37but BJP ka kuch hoga nahi.
35:39So, yaad diladhu.
35:40You know, while this is a different state, Kundarki, Uttar Pradesh,
35:4565% Muslim population,
35:48by Paul held in October 2024,
35:51BJP defeated its nearest rival from Samajwadi party, a Muslim,
35:57by 1.45 lakh votes.
36:00Ramveer Singh Thakur of the BJP won,
36:03Kundarki with a 65% Muslim population,
36:05and Mohamad Rizwan and 10 other Muslim candidates ko muh ki khani padi.
36:10So, BJP has made 60 seconds.
36:12Ma'am, your time is up.
36:14Ma'am, but, you know, I'm glad that you touched on, you know,
36:17what I allegedly said during Maharashtra,
36:20because I'll tell you,
36:21I have taken you for a very, very intelligent woman.
36:24You're one of my favorite panelists on television,
36:27and I would have thought you would not have fallen
36:29for IT cell clip cutters,
36:31even if they come from your own party.
36:33I really would have hoped you wouldn't have fallen for that.
36:35I'll send you the real clip.
36:36Oh, my God.
36:37Watch the entire clip.
36:39I want to cut across right now to,
36:41from the Congress,
36:42the Congress spokesperson,
36:44Professor Suraj Mandel.
36:45Professor Suraj Mandel,
36:46if you look at this,
36:48then, you know, it cuts both ways.
36:49Number one, yes,
36:50that there is a cause for concern
36:53if the minority vote back is dented,
36:56because it is between 17% to 19% where Bihar is concerned,
36:59and the immediate consequence will be faced
37:03by the Mahagat Bandhan,
37:05which is the RJD and the Congress.
37:07You have not given us figures,
37:11but we know amongst the votes which has been cut down,
37:16maximum votes belong to minorities,
37:19Dalits,
37:19backwards,
37:20and extremely backwards classes.
37:22Apart from that,
37:23what we had our panelists from BJP saying
37:27in what happened in Maharashtra,
37:29everybody knows now how Maharashtra election was won.
37:32And in Uttar Pradesh,
37:35Muslims were not allowed to vote.
37:37Everything is open before the people.
37:40But okay,
37:40let's speak only about Bihar.
37:42In Bihar,
37:43now the situation is such
37:45that though every time you hear the rhetoric
37:48of this constitutional body,
37:51but what is this constitutional body doing?
37:54It is not adding to the faith of the people.
37:57It had the duty and obligation
37:59to see to it
38:01that all its actions are above board.
38:04What they are doing is just an organized way
38:06of rigging the poll,
38:08which was earlier done in a few booths.
38:10The whole system is now being rigged.
38:12And this has come to the light.
38:14In several,
38:14our friend was asking for some proof.
38:18Those proofs are out.
38:19It's not just what Rahulji said today.
38:22And then the simple words,
38:24which we have the panelists
38:27saying hooliganism
38:28to a national leader of opposition.
38:31We know what BJP people do.
38:33And every day in Bihar,
38:35the issue is not just the caste leaders.
38:38The issue is the galloping state of crime
38:43in the state of Bihar.
38:44And apart from that,
38:4671,000 crores of loot
38:48by the BJP, JDU government.
38:50So all these issues are there.
38:52Every time people need not go to their only caste leaders.
38:55They know what is hitting them.
38:57How the whole system is being,
39:00you know,
39:01the constitutional is being held to ransom in Bihar.
39:05And that is why
39:05whatever the opposition is doing,
39:07I think it is the only way for them to...
39:11Sir, your time is up.
39:12Your fader is going to go down.
39:13We won't be able to hear you.
39:14Before I get in,
39:15Ashutoshji and Karan in the studio with me,
39:17I want to quickly go through
39:18the next set of data.
39:19Three questions,
39:20and then we'll be back with our panelists.
39:22Can India Alliance
39:23effectively represent Muslim interest in Bihar?
39:25It was a question that was asked to the respondents.
39:28Because you'll have to read out
39:29the larger picture in all of this
39:30in the backdrop of the special intensive role revision.
39:35In that question,
39:36can India Alliance
39:37effectively represent Muslim interest in Bihar?
39:39Yes.
39:4044.3 Muslims feel that it is the India Alliance.
39:4441.3 others.
39:4541.8% feel in totality.
39:49Yes.
39:50No.
39:5031.9% Muslims.
39:5229.9% others.
39:55And total.
39:5630.3% don't know.
39:5823.8%.
39:5928.8%.
40:0127.9% there.
40:03The second question that was also asked,
40:05is Tejasvi's threat to boycott polls
40:08right to oppose SIR?
40:11Nearly 45% of Muslim respondents say yes, it's right.
40:17Others, 37.4%,
40:2038.7% feel that yes,
40:24that Tejasvi is right in suggesting
40:27suggesting there is a possibility of poll boycott.
40:30If you look at the answer no,
40:32it falls pretty much at 37.2%,
40:36but the figure differs where the Muslims and others are concerned there.
40:40Should Parliament debate SIR controversy?
40:43Something that the opposition is constantly demanding in Parliament,
40:47that a debate happen on the special intensive role revision.
40:5072.1% Muslim respondents feel yes.
40:5553.7% others feel yes.
40:58Total, 57.1% of respondents feel yes,
41:02Parliament should debate.
41:03Only 24% of respondents feel that Parliament should not debate.
41:08I just want to, before we go to Ashutosh Ji and Karan,
41:11want to give out what the government stand is.
41:13The government says we really cannot debate
41:15the special intensive role revision in Parliament
41:18because it's not our purview.
41:20It's the purview of a constitutional body
41:22that is external to us,
41:23which is the Election Commission.
41:24Therefore, we cannot debate SIR in Parliament,
41:27is what the government says.
41:29What do you make of these figures, Ashutosh Ji?
41:31Two minutes.
41:33Preeti, I think
41:34a different electoral algorithm
41:38needs to be invented.
41:40Because this, the Muslim voter voting in bloc,
41:45I think that has become an old one.
41:47That has become antiquity.
41:49The new algorithm should try to understand
41:51that how the upper caste is voting.
41:54And what I had gone through,
41:57I can tell you that there are two clear social blocs.
42:00One social bloc is voting for the BJP
42:03and the other social bloc is voting for the opposition.
42:06The upper caste lock, stock and barrel today,
42:09they are voting for BJP
42:11and in a state like UP,
42:12they are voting more than 85% to the BJP.
42:15Where the Muslim lock, stock and barrel,
42:17they are voting for Samajwadi Party in the Congress.
42:19Across the country,
42:20upper caste is totally aligned with the BJP
42:23and the Muslims are aligned with the opposition.
42:27So when we try to map
42:28how the Muslims are going to vote
42:30and which direction they are going to vote,
42:32there is an outreach program.
42:33This should also be another category
42:36where how the upper caste mood
42:38is going to define the elections.
42:39Now, the real competition
42:41between the political party,
42:42SC, ST and the OBCs.
42:44Now, whichever the political party
42:45try to get a large section among them
42:48certainly becomes the winner in the elections.
42:51BJP since 2014
42:53have been successfully trying,
42:55successfully getting SC, ST and the OBCs vote bank.
42:58But since 2024,
42:59parliamentary election,
43:00if you see,
43:01there is a fragmentation
43:02in that support to the BJP itself.
43:04So I am only saying it
43:06the next time we do something like
43:07a stock exchange,
43:08political stock exchange,
43:10it will be interesting to map
43:11how the upper caste
43:12is going to behave in this election
43:14and what will be their role
43:17in whether they will play a decisive role
43:21in the Bihar election.
43:22About the data itself,
43:23see, I have no,
43:25my only submission,
43:26neither the caste identity
43:28becomes less important
43:29only if there is a very strong
43:31anti-incumbency
43:32against the incumbent government.
43:35Which I could see
43:36that there is a strong anti-incumbency
43:37but will it neutralize
43:38the caste identity?
43:39That has to be seen.
43:41Alright, Karan,
43:41you have two minutes.
43:42Go ahead.
43:43So, first of all,
43:43you know,
43:44I take very strong objection
43:45to the Congress spokesperson
43:46the kind of language he used
43:48that Muslims were not allowed
43:49to vote in the by-polls,
43:51how they won in Maharashtra,
43:52we all know,
43:53blaming everything on EC.
43:54I think that's in very,
43:55very bad taste.
43:56There have been elections
43:57that the Congress party has won
43:58and it's won a lot of elections.
44:00Telangana, Karnataka, Himachal,
44:01to name a few.
44:02So, that is extremely,
44:04in extreme bad taste.
44:05Secondly,
44:06you know,
44:06you discussed that
44:08why is the SIR
44:09not being discussed
44:10in the Parliament?
44:11This is rule number 352
44:13of the Lok Sabha rules of procedure
44:14which says that anything
44:15that's pending
44:16or subjudice in the courts
44:18cannot be discussed.
44:19That is the reason,
44:20one,
44:20why it's not being discussed
44:21because it's still up there
44:22in the Supreme Court
44:23and also because
44:24the party in power
44:25is not a party to it.
44:26It's the election commission
44:27which in itself
44:28constitutional body
44:29which needs to do the answering.
44:31And they've tried
44:31to engage with the opposition.
44:33The opposition has failed
44:34to do that.
44:34That is another thing.
44:35Now,
44:35as far as the caste calculus,
44:37you know,
44:37I'm surprised
44:38that despite all the
44:40aspersions that have been cast
44:42on the BJP
44:42as being anti-Muslim,
44:44they'll strip you
44:44of your constitutional rights
44:46and all of that,
44:46only 42%
44:47are still believing
44:50that the India Alliance
44:51is a suitable option
44:51for them.
44:52What does it tell you?
44:53The fact is,
44:53Preeti,
44:54they've only used them
44:55as a vote bank.
44:56They've failed to deliver.
44:57Who has encroached
44:58the maximum lands
45:00of all the Kabristans
45:01in Bihar?
45:01It's Lalu's party.
45:02So many of them
45:03are convicted of that.
45:04When someone like Tejasvi,
45:06who's there in the land
45:07for job scam
45:08and he suddenly comes out
45:09and says,
45:09Shahabuddin Amar Rahe,
45:10a man who's been convicted,
45:12a man who burnt alive
45:13another individual
45:14for a piece of land,
45:15that shows you
45:16the mindset of appeasement
45:17that has existed
45:18for so long.
45:19I mean,
45:19how far will you go down
45:20on this road of appeasement
45:21where you'll cast BJP
45:23as a pariah,
45:24not do anything
45:24for the development,
45:26loot them of their lands
45:27and then ask for votes?
45:28So it shows that the people,
45:30even the Muslims,
45:30are not buying in on this
45:32anymore after suffering
45:33at their hands.
45:34As far as the caste calculus,
45:35I think Rahul Gandhi
45:36and the entire opposition
45:38has resorted
45:39to brazen caste politics,
45:41but alas,
45:41it's not going to work.
45:42I believe it's going
45:43to be development
45:44that's going to trump
45:44over caste politics.
45:45All right.
45:45You know,
45:46all the time that I have for now,
45:47I've been told
45:48I have to tease my own show
45:49over the weekend,
45:50which I really don't mind,
45:51but I'll give 10 seconds each
45:52to the BJP and the Congress.
45:53So yeah,
45:54Sanju Verma,
45:5510 seconds
45:55and I'll go to the
45:56Congress spokesperson
45:57for 10 seconds,
45:58but please keep it in that.
46:01In my 10 seconds,
46:02I would just like to say,
46:03you know,
46:04Touche,
46:04Preeti is one of my
46:05favorite journalists,
46:06but you know,
46:06I say it as it is
46:07and I'm happy that on her show,
46:09my voice is not muted.
46:10Unlike other shows,
46:11when something like a journalist,
46:12doesn't like a journalist,
46:13then,
46:14let the panelist's voice mute.
46:17So, you know,
46:18I will just say,
46:19Rahul Gandhi,
46:20you have the atom bomb,
46:21it's gone,
46:21but stop behaving like
46:23a juvenile delinquent,
46:25start behaving like
46:26a responsible leader
46:27of opposition.
46:28I'm not 20-20,
46:29so let's leave.
46:30In 20-30,
46:31you won't become a Pradaan
46:32minister.
46:33Professor Mandel,
46:3320 seconds,
46:35go ahead,
46:36make your point.
46:37Just now,
46:38one gentleman
46:38was having objections
46:40to what I said,
46:41but we didn't have
46:42any objections
46:42to the word we used
46:44for the leader
46:45of opposition
46:46as Hooligan.
46:47Anyway,
46:47I reject all those things.
46:49Secondly,
46:49let us be very sure
46:51that this fact
46:52and figure
46:53that all the
46:54Khabaristan land
46:54is being rooted
46:55by Lalu's party
46:56is a mere fiction
46:58of imagination
46:59of this chap.
47:00It is not there,
47:01certainly not there.
47:03You come with
47:03all these fake figures
47:04just to spread
47:06the narrative.
47:06I'm sorry,
47:06you know,
47:07I'm sorry,
47:09Professor Mandel,
47:10that's all the time
47:10we have for now
47:11and the reason being
47:12because I am told
47:12I need to tease
47:13my own show.
47:14I'm very happy
47:14doing that.
47:15Please watch.
47:15Mahua Moitra
47:16on my podcast
47:17Unpolitics this weekend.
47:19Here's an example.
47:22Mahua,
47:23tell me,
47:23so coming back
47:24after you won again,
47:26after being thrown
47:26out of parliament,
47:27what was the first day like?
47:28It's okay.
47:30Was there a sense
47:31of redemption,
47:33retribution?
47:34It was strangely calm.
47:35You know,
47:36Priti,
47:36there are situations
47:37in my head
47:38when it was happening,
47:39you go through
47:40what you think
47:41it'll be.
47:41So I kept running
47:42situations through my mind
47:44but actually when it happened,
47:45it was complete calm
47:46because I knew
47:47I would win.
47:48I knew the whole thing
47:49was a lie
47:49as I know it today.
47:50You know,
47:51I'm sure the CBI
47:51will come up
47:52with a Mickey Mouse
47:53judge sheet.
47:53It's not over yet,
47:54by the way.
47:55I know that.
47:55So the CBI
47:56could well come up
47:57with a complete
47:57Mickey Mouse judge.
47:58sheet and,
47:59you know,
47:59that could well happen.
48:00Over a lipstick?
48:01They could.
48:01They could,
48:02but that's the country
48:03we live in.
48:03I know.
48:04And Bobbi Brown
48:04stopped making
48:05that lipstick.
48:06Think about it.
48:07I think Bobbi Brown
48:07was so upset
48:08that at all the infamy
48:09this particular shade
48:10had got,
48:11they were like,
48:12they probably stopped making
48:13so I can't even
48:14use that lipstick anymore.
48:15What's the bag
48:16that you're carrying
48:16to parliament nowadays?
48:18I've only got one bag
48:18which I carry.
48:19The wine which was all over the place.
48:20Which is all over,
48:21which I've had
48:22and which I carry
48:22all the time.
48:23I'm not a person
48:24who changes bags
48:25because there's so much
48:25stuff in it
48:26that I could never change
48:28a bag.
48:28Most of us do
48:29until the time
48:29it's praying at the end.
48:30Absolutely.
48:30So I don't do that.
48:31So it's that one bag
48:32that I use most often.
48:33I've got a smaller one
48:34that I use once in a while
48:35but otherwise
48:35it's the same bag.
48:36Why do you think
48:37they caught on to your bag?
48:38Because if you look at it
48:39there are a lot of bags
48:40in parliament.
48:41Like I said,
48:41like I said
48:42that it's the troll army
48:45of the BJP
48:46who have literally
48:47nothing to do.
48:48So their job is
48:48wake up in the morning
48:49and decide
48:50what meaningless issue
48:52you're going to go after.
48:53But what is it?
48:53What is it that
48:54gets under the skin?
48:56Where Mahua Moitra
48:57is concerned?
48:58Well, you know what?
48:58Because I can sit here
49:00and tell them
49:00they're a bunch
49:01of useless losers
49:01and there are very few
49:03elected women
49:04who've done something
49:05with their life
49:05who actually tell them that.
49:06No one tells them that.
49:08India is a misogynist,
49:10patriarchal,
49:11sexually frustrated society
49:14when it comes to men.
49:15You know it?
49:15I agree.
49:15I know it.
49:16You agree?
49:16I agree.
49:17Now they've got
49:17their representation
49:18everywhere else.
49:19If out of India
49:21there are men
49:22like this everywhere
49:22then what's to say
49:23they won't be in parliament
49:24and they won't be in government
49:25and they won't be
49:26in every political party.
49:27So like I said
49:28there are a section
49:29there's a very large section
49:30of India
49:31that is deeply misogynistic
49:32that is deeply patriarchal
49:34that is deeply
49:35sexually prostrated
49:36and they can't stand
49:38to see women
49:39in positions
49:40of any kind of power.
49:42I mean we are
49:43I'm nothing
49:44I'm a little ant
49:45in the picture.
49:45If you see what
49:46Mamata Banerjee
49:47my chief ministers
49:47had to go through
49:48you see what
49:49Mrs. Gandhi's
49:50had to go through.
49:50I mean just go back
49:51in history
49:52and see the kinds of attacks
49:52they've had to put through
49:53what we've had to go through
49:55is nothing.
49:55We'll see you next time.
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