00:00Well, welcome back. And we're now joined by the Shadow Justice Secretary, Robert Jenrick.
00:06Good morning, Robert. Thank you for joining us. Of course, Robert Jenrick's been very vocal about the issue of migration.
00:14Here he is. I think we have him now. Good morning, Robert. Thank you for joining us.
00:18Good morning. Good morning. Now, what do you make of President Macron's comments about the pull factors within Britain?
00:26This idea that illegal immigrants can come over here, can get jobs on the black market.
00:30And that actually, unless we sort out those pull factors, there's a limit to what the French can do to help us with our small boats problem.
00:39Well, look, it's important that we have good relations with our nearest neighbour, France.
00:46But I think Macron and the French could be doing so much more to help us if they wanted.
00:52They could stop the small boats, frankly, tomorrow if they got their gendarmes out on the beaches into the shallow waters,
00:59turning back the boats, as some of our other neighbours do, like the Belgians, for example.
01:04But I don't think we should just be leaving this to the kindness of strangers.
01:08We've got to have our own sovereign deterrent. That's why I was a proponent of Rwanda.
01:13That's why I feel we have to have a very simple system of our own that does not rely on anyone else,
01:19which is if you come here illegally, you're detained and you're deported back home to your own country or to a safe third country in hours and days, not months and years.
01:31Yes, we should also be tackling the pull factors to the UK.
01:35You know, you should not be able to work in the black market.
01:38That's why we've got to stop all of those Uber and Deliveroo drivers who are not have no legal right to be working in the UK.
01:45That's why, frankly, we should not be housing illegal migrants in hotels living the life of Riley
01:51when they should be being in detained accommodation and then sent back home as quickly as possible.
01:56But the absolute heart of the issue is not what happens when you're here,
02:01is that you should never be allowed to stay in the UK and you should be removed as quickly as possible
02:06so you don't get a foothold in the UK.
02:09Do you know what? It sounds to me as if Macron also is in favour of your Rwanda solution.
02:21Well, we don't know exactly what this potential deal is that is being discussed between the government and President Macron.
02:29And we're going to have to wait and see what the details of that actually are.
02:32If it is true that the Prime Minister is proposing some kind of deterrent,
02:36then that's great that he's had a Damascene conversion because it was not so long ago that he was scrapping Rwanda.
02:42And the Rwanda scheme was by far and away the best option to create a proper deterrent,
02:48break the business model of the people smuggling gangs.
02:51That is what we actually need.
02:53We'll wait and see whatever is proposed, whether that happens.
02:56We've been led up this path before by President Macron and he's not fulfilled his promises in the past.
03:01We've spent 800 million quid in recent times trying to persuade the French to actually do something on the beaches.
03:07So let's wait and see what happens.
03:09But it clearly would be much better if we, the United Kingdom, came up with our own sovereign deterrent,
03:15whether that's Rwanda or another scheme,
03:17and one which actually got on, detained people, removed them as swiftly as possible when they arrived here in the UK.
03:22Now, Robert, let's...
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