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00:00Live right here on this Thursday on the early line on SportsGrid.
00:04We welcome on our good friend Mark Zinno, joining us here on TEL.
00:08Zinno, this week, it's mandatory minicamp around the National Football League.
00:12Really a set of about three practices.
00:14So today really ends minicamp for a lot of the clubs around the NFL.
00:19And then they go into their summer break.
00:20They have just over a month before the rooks start showing up for
00:24training camp in late July.
00:27So this is really it.
00:28Late in the off season, voluntary OTAs in a mandatory minicamp.
00:32We get your thoughts on some quarterback battles around the National Football League
00:37here on this Thursday.
00:38We thank you for being here.
00:40Always great to be with you guys.
00:42Still recovering from the shock that I've been watching in the NBA Finals.
00:46And every Oklahoma City ticket that you have now is in danger of going up in smoke.
00:53It does seem as though, Mark Zinno, that could be the case.
00:57Let's start with where one of the NBA Finals competitors plays their home basketball.
01:04That's Indianapolis, of course.
01:05The city of Indy feeling great right now.
01:07First NBA Finals game in two and a half decades inside Gainbridge Fieldhouse in downtown Indianapolis.
01:14And a win to show for it.
01:16How about the Colts, though?
01:17Maybe the vibe's not so high.
01:20As we shared yesterday, Anthony Richardson not participating at minicamp because of a shoulder issue.
01:27He is resting.
01:28They hope to have him back by training camp.
01:31But Zinno, no clear timetable for his return at any stage of this offseason.
01:36Outside of the injury concerns around AR, who has only played 15 total games in his first two years in the NFL,
01:43there were also the concerns around accuracy.
01:46And if Anthony Richardson could be a sustainable and successful starting quarterback entering his third NFL season.
01:53And Mark Zinno, according to the oddsmakers, he might not even be the starting quarterback entering his third season come week number one.
02:01Daniel Jones, now the favorite on FanDuel at minus 166 to be that week one starter for the Colts.
02:09Zinno, ultimately, when this quarterback battle is decided, who's starting the season opener for Indy?
02:15It's going to be Daniel Jones.
02:16I mean, look, it's obvious at this point in time the Colts realized the flyer they took on Anthony Richardson was a mistake.
02:24They wouldn't have brought somebody else in who's a starting caliber quarterback if they had thought otherwise.
02:30Right?
02:31Regardless of how good Daniel Jones is or isn't, he's a starting caliber quarterback in this league.
02:36He's one of 32 guys who has the capability to start.
02:40Again, it's not a high-level starter.
02:42It's not very good.
02:43I know that personally.
02:44I watched a lot of it.
02:45I sat through some of it.
02:46I cried often.
02:47But nonetheless, this is what Daniel Jones is.
02:49He can start in this league.
02:51And he's there simply because the Colts are trying to hang on to this thing called Anthony Richardson for as long as they can to keep the egg off their face, which I do not understand.
03:01I will always give credit to the Arizona Cardinals.
03:04They drafted Josh Rosen.
03:05They knew about six games and it didn't work.
03:08They punted on the experiment, drafted a new quarterback, and got him right out of town.
03:11Fine.
03:12Totally okay.
03:13Like, it's okay to say we made a mistake, cut bait, and get out.
03:17No teams want to do that.
03:19The Falcons won't do it with Kirk Cousins.
03:21This goes on and on all the time.
03:22Instead of just cutting bait and moving on from a bad decision, they want to make this thing hang on and last and hover over the organization like there's some chance this could work out.
03:31We all know Anthony Richardson is not a starter in the NFL right now.
03:34Here's the question that I want to ask and pose to you here, Mark, when you take a look at Anthony Richardson.
03:39Because let's just say three weeks ago, Ben and I had this conversation where it was like, no matter what it looks like in training camp, if Anthony Richardson is healthy, he will be the day one starting quarterback.
03:48Because they're just trying to give him one final look to see, go through an offseason, command the huddle, win some football games in September, let's see what happens.
03:56So now it looks like we're not even going to get to that point.
03:58So is this a part where, like, Daniel Jones might be a little bit shaky and they're under .500, then you put Richardson back in?
04:04Or could this be quite possibly, like, we're just never going to go back to this kid and even give any hope?
04:09Because what are we going to do this every single year until we finally get a look at the guy?
04:13Six years into the NFL.
04:14What is the future for Anthony Richardson this season in Indianapolis?
04:18I mean, it's Daniel Jones' job to put a fork and did the Anthony Richardson experiment, right?
04:22That's his sole purpose, is to play good enough for 17 games, keep you close to a postseason berth, if not get in the postseason,
04:30and forget the, you know, eliminate the Anthony Richardson experiment.
04:35Now, if Daniel Jones plays, oh, I've seen Daniel Jones play at times,
04:39the door is going to be open for Anthony Richardson to get back in this thing.
04:42And, yes, that's what the Colts are going to do because they're going to hang on.
04:45They're going to try to squeeze every last ounce of juice out of this lemon to see what they have from it
04:50in order to say that, hey, we tried everything we could.
04:53You know, we looked at every option.
04:55We gave them multiple opportunities.
04:56It just didn't work out.
04:58You already know the answer.
04:59It doesn't work out.
05:00But, uh, Dale Jones is there.
05:02It's his job to lose.
05:04It's his job to make sure Anthony Richardson doesn't touch the football field again.
05:08And, of course, as Zinno is alluding to, a ton of investment by Indianapolis
05:12when you select a guy fourth overall in the 2023 NFL draft.
05:17But sometimes it just does not work.
05:19Anthony Richardson last season in 11 games played 47.7.
05:24Was the completion percentage the worst among any qualified quarterback in the National Football League.
05:30A season ago.
05:31The only one sub 50 and the only one of quarterbacks who played in at least 10 games to be worse than 60%.
05:39Seven and a half to win total for Indianapolis.
05:41Year number three under Shane Steichen as well.
05:44Nine and eight in 2023.
05:45Eight and nine a season ago.
05:48They went eight and nine a season ago.
05:51And Joe Flacco got a couple of those wins for Indianapolis.
05:54Now, Joe Flacco, Mark Zinno, is back in Cleveland where he played to end out 2023.
05:59Started the final five games, led Cleveland to 11 wins in a playoff spot.
06:05The veteran 40-year-old signal caller back with Cleveland and is the favorite in a jumbled quarterback room
06:12to be that starter for the Browns week number one.
06:15Some shifting odds in these prices.
06:17Flacco no longer a minus money favorite ever so slightly, but plus 110.
06:22Kenny Pickett, 2-1.
06:24Shador Sanders now has the longest price of the four by himself at 7-1.
06:30Dylan Gabriel in front at plus 500.
06:34Zinno, it is a very jumbled quarterback room in Cleveland.
06:38ESPN Cleveland.
06:40Tracking the stats throughout team activities through voluntary OTAs and minicamp.
06:46When all is said and done, come week number one, who should Kevin Stefanski start as the Browns QB?
06:53Well, who should he start and who will they start are two different things, right?
06:58But, I mean, he should start one of the two rookies.
07:02Throw him in there, throw him to the Wolves and see what you got.
07:04That's the reality of it.
07:06And if Shador Sanders is the most talented and most competent, it should be him.
07:10Joe Flacco is going to get the starting job.
07:11That's really what this boils down to.
07:13But there's not a legitimate world where Kenny Pickett actually should ever see the field.
07:17Like, I'm not sure what he's even there for at this point in time.
07:19Like, I got to be – I'm not really sure the way this whole thing went down, how he figured into it.
07:24Look, Kenny Pickett is not a starting quarterback in the NFL, period.
07:29And if you got two rookies that you drafted, the hell you have him around for.
07:32Because if Flacco falters, you should give it to the rookie.
07:36You know what Kenny Pickett is and isn't.
07:38I know what he is.
07:39He's emasquerading as an NFL quarterback.
07:41I know what he's not, a starter in this league.
07:42So, there's no reason he should ever see the field, in my opinion.
07:46But, again, Joe Flacco is going to start the season.
07:49And until he turns into a pick-six machine, which he eventually will, and don't get me wrong, I love Joe Flacco.
07:54I've covered him closely.
07:55He was friends with him for years in Baltimore.
07:57He's a great man.
07:58He's a good father.
07:59But he's not an NFL – he's not a guy I want to trust with my team anymore.
08:02He throws the ball to the other team way too often.
08:04There's a lot of upside to him, what he can do, as we've seen.
08:07But there's a lot of – it's very Jameis Winston feel, minus all the goofiness in the media and everything else.
08:13It's kind of what it is.
08:16When you see right now, Mark, you know, the Cleveland Browns, where they win a total of five and a half.
08:20Most juice on the under for any team with that win a total of five and a hook at minus 160,
08:26which does mean the Browns are expected to be the worst team in the NFL in 2025.
08:31Is that your outlook for Cleveland as well?
08:36I mean, it really just depends on consistency at the quarterback position, right?
08:42Like, I mean, that's – if somehow Joe Flacco turns a five- and six-game sample size into, you know,
08:4915 to 16 quality games where he's not killing his team, they have a shot to win a lot more than this.
08:54I mean, look, if they win two division games, that's really what this boils down to.
08:58If they win two division games, there's probably four other wins on their schedule that can be fixed.
09:02If they can't win two, they're going to be in real trouble to get over that number.
09:06Yeah, it seems as though they might be.
09:09For what it's worth, I think Kenny Pickett should be the starter in Cleveland.
09:13Let the guy rip and see if he's got anything else left in the tech.
09:17More QB battles with Zinno next.
09:20The theme with Mark Zinno today is quarterback battles around the National Football League
09:25and the odds associated on the FanDuel Sportsbook.
09:29We hit on probably the most two competitive, either based on injury or just a lot of cooks in the kitchen.
09:36That, of course, would be Indianapolis with the concerns around Anthony Richardson's shoulder
09:41and, of course, the jumbled QB room with the Cleveland Browns.
09:45Now let's go to New Orleans where Mark Zinno earlier in the offseason, of course,
09:48Derek Carr announces his retirement after two seasons in the Big Easy 11 in total of his NFL career.
09:55Paving the way for the second round pick this past April out of Louisville.
10:00Tyler Shuck to be that starting quarterback.
10:02Might be a rookie, but the guy turns 26 years old come September.
10:07So, Zinno, I'm not going to ask you, do you believe Kellen Moore starts Tyler Shuck?
10:11The odds are telling us at a minus 310 price.
10:14That is most likely at this moment.
10:17What I'm going to ask you is, how do you expect Shuck to perform early on in his rookie season?
10:23Well, you should ask me, do you believe that Kellen Moore feels like he made a mistake taking the Saints job?
10:28Because the answer is yes, because this is starting out well.
10:31Like, that's, you know, they got bait and switched here on Kellen Moore,
10:35thinking he was getting something and he's got something completely different.
10:38Look, I mean, just from the standpoint of the rest of the quarterback group,
10:43Spencer Dobbins cannot compete at an NFL level on a long-term basis.
10:47And Jay Kaner is not the answer, right?
10:50So, it's Tyler Shuck.
10:51Now, on the upside for Shuck here, Ben, and you'll know this, you'll back me up here,
10:55the Brahms system at Louisville is one that NFL quarterbacks have benefited from, right?
11:00It's a good passing offense.
11:02It's a pro style offense.
11:03They ask a lot of their quarterbacks to do.
11:05So, Shuck is well-positioned here, and he's at least given Kellen Moore a little something to work with here in his rookie season.
11:14How much can they keep him upright?
11:15How much can they protect him?
11:16I mean, what sort of offense?
11:17How dumbed down is it to start early on?
11:19How much will they expand it?
11:20I mean, all these things remain to be seen.
11:23But there is a world where, much similar, and I don't want to put these two coaches side by side,
11:28to what Sean Payton slowly brought along, Bo Nix in Denver, that Kellen Moore, who's a good offensive mind,
11:33can slowly bring along Tyler Shuck here.
11:35And by the time we're at week 12, 13, as long as Shuck is healthy,
11:39there may look like a really productive quarterback in New Orleans.
11:43So, I certainly understand where they're going here.
11:46But the real question is, what does the rest of this offense look like?
11:50I mean, you know, what sort of weapons are there?
11:52What's left?
11:52I get Chris Olavi is still there.
11:55Alvin Kamara is still there.
11:56But what else is really on this offense that gives a young rookie a lot of, you know,
12:01safety nets and security blankets to work with?
12:03I don't know if they necessarily have a ton.
12:05And this also is a Saints defense that may be trailing a lot or forcing Shuck to be trailing a lot in games.
12:10That could be a problem.
12:11Yeah, it's going to be a tough season in New Orleans.
12:13The interesting part about that quarterback room, too, is you usually have, like, the older vet in there
12:17and say, hey, young guys in the room, let me teach them.
12:19I mean, come on.
12:20Hainers out here in Rattler, they're going to teach Shuck what he needs to know at this point.
12:23And also, you know, Shuck, not that 19, 20, 21-year-old kid, obviously in his mid-20s already.
12:29I don't think we have a lot of optimism here for the New Orleans Saints moving forward.
12:31I'm talking about Olave.
12:32I mean, that guy's one hit away from just being done in the NFL, plain and simple.
12:36Not a lot of great looks there in New Orleans.
12:37And so when we talk about differentiating quarterback rooms, hey, passion of yours,
12:41certainly talking about the New York Giants.
12:43And we focus on Russell Wilson, Jackson Dart, and Jamie Swinson.
12:47Now, for me, I'm at a crossroads here.
12:50Like, I have a low ticket here, Mark.
12:52Three and a half games that the Giants need to win.
12:54And I say, all right, they got Russell Wilson.
12:56That's a vet that could play all 17 games.
12:58And then I go, well, is Russ playing all 17 games, Mark?
13:01If they're 1-7 to start the season, you just go to the rookie here at Jackson Dart at 12-1,
13:07making that opening day numbers.
13:09What's going on with the Giants room?
13:10And how does this actually play out?
13:13Well, I'm at a crossroads with you.
13:15Not only from my fandom standpoint, but DRS, you and I were doing the show the same day
13:19when that Giants total was posted.
13:22You got three and a half.
13:23You beat me two, and I got four and a half.
13:25The Giants, yes, you were not here, Ben.
13:26You had a night off, a day off.
13:29You were long gone.
13:30So DRS and I jumped all over the Giants' win total.
13:33I have a four and a half.
13:35You have a three and a half ticket.
13:36And I'm rooting for the Giants to at least get five wins here.
13:40Now, that said, I'm at a crossroads with my fandom because I don't want to watch this team.
13:45There's nothing I – I suppose the defense is going to be good,
13:48but I'm kind of really irritated at everything that they've done.
13:51If Russell Wilson – here's the thing.
13:54But Russell Wilson is good enough, we've seen, wherever he's been the last two or three years,
13:59to start a sample size of about seven games would be very good, right?
14:04That's his, like, limit right now.
14:05He gets seven games where he's going to play at an above average to high level,
14:10and he's going to help his team be competitive in games and probably win them.
14:13Now, with the Giants' defense, that may be enough to get us home with our tickets here, DRS.
14:17I don't think with Russell Wilson, they're going to start out that badly.
14:21But remember, if you flash that schedule up there, my God.
14:24Don't hit the Giants in the head with a bat to start this season.
14:28They might be 0-4 before you can even go, you know, hit the can.
14:32Like, forget about it.
14:33They're not going to see a win until week five.
14:36So that's the problem.
14:38And then, oh, by the way, by the time you get to week nine, you might only have one win.
14:42Because if you beat the Saints, great.
14:45If somehow you can't beat the Broncos, you ain't beating the Eagles.
14:48We know that.
14:48You're not better than the Niners.
14:50I mean, this is all going to come for us, DRS, on the back end.
14:53The real question is, which quarterback is left standing at the end of this thing is a brutal schedule.
15:00It's a brutal – and the Giants' defense is going to have to do something miraculous.
15:03And I got to tell you, honestly, you want me to give you their best chance to get over this total?
15:08Steal week one against Washington, who's going to be reading their own press clippings,
15:13believing how good they are, and thinking about the NFL title again, and going,
15:18hey, we're worried about week two, and we got somebody else to play.
15:21No.
15:22The Giants' defense could sneak up on them and sneak up on them fast in that game.
15:26And that may be the best chance to get over that win total is stealing week one.
15:30It feels like the Giants should be better this year,
15:33but it is the most difficult schedule in the National Football League for 2025.
15:39In the context of all this situation, Mark Zeno is very interesting,
15:43because it could be the final year under the guidance of Joe Shane, the GM,
15:47and head coach Brian Dayball.
15:49So let me ask you the question that you almost posed to yourself right there.
15:53Those are the week one starting quarterback odds.
15:55In the final 30 seconds of this segment,
15:57what have I asked you week eight, week 13, week 18 starting quarterback?
16:04Who would be the favorite to start for the GMAT?
16:08I have said this for as long as I've been in sports media.
16:11How you win doesn't matter.
16:12How you lose always matters.
16:14How are the Giants losing with Russell Wilson under center?
16:16If they're competitive in games and he's not turning the ball over,
16:19he's going to hang on to the job.
16:20The coaches aren't stupid.
16:21They know these are better teams than they're playing.
16:23So as long as he's taking care of the football and being smart with it,
16:26he'll hang on to this job.
16:27If he's making a ton of mistakes, Jackson Dart, welcome to the NFL.
16:31It will be interesting to see what Dart's future is this season with New York.
16:37Some other rookie news around the NFL up next.
16:40Live right here on this Thursday on the early line on SportsGrid.
16:43Quarterback battles throughout mandatory minicamp
16:46and the remainder of this offseason around the NFL.
16:49And also some news on this Thursday to end out minicamp in a couple of spots.
16:55That includes what has only been described as a tumultuous offseason defensively
17:00represented here in minicamp for the Cincinnati Bengals.
17:04Trey Hendrickson not there.
17:06They cut Jermaine Pratt earlier in the week.
17:08He is now signed with the Las Vegas Raiders.
17:10And the unsigned 17th overall pick of the first round,
17:15Shamar Stewart out of Texas A&M.
17:17Who had been at rookie minicamp, just not participating in workouts.
17:21Who had been at OTAs, again, just not participating.
17:26And in the first two days of minicamp this week, had been there watching,
17:29just not going through the drills or the practices.
17:33This updates, you know, from ESPN's Adam Schefter.
17:36Shamar Stewart now has left mandatory minicamp.
17:40Stewart had been attending team activities, but without a signed rookie contract.
17:45And with the Bengals asking for a certain default clauses,
17:48Shamar Stewart no longer there at minicamp for the Bengals.
17:53Zeno, what is your takeaway about this standstill between the rookie,
17:56Shamar Stewart, and the Bengals front office?
18:00Well, what Adam Schefter says is true, that the Bengals are asking for certain
18:04default clauses to keep money in their pockets and take it away from a rookie,
18:08in which all of these draft picks are now slotted.
18:11But this should not, the CBA prevented this situation from happening, period.
18:16It's all slotted money.
18:18It's easy to figure out.
18:20There's not much negotiating until you get a team like the Bengals who wants to do this.
18:24I keep telling you guys, this Bengals team is not worth your money to bet on.
18:28I do not care that Joe Burrow is the quarterback.
18:31Zach Taylor is an awful coach.
18:32This is a bad front office.
18:34The ownership is still proving once again that they're incompetent.
18:37Do not invest any of your money on the Cincinnati Bengals.
18:39They are not worth it.
18:41And this is where the Bengals are headed, that they are going to end up getting this
18:45team torn down and making the players so disgruntled that they no longer want to be
18:50there anymore.
18:51And I would make a bet right now, Joe Burrow does not finish his career in a Bengals uniform.
18:57You know, it's a funny part about that, Mark, is it's a good statement that you have.
19:00Because remember, Carson Palmer's like, I hate this team so much.
19:03I just don't want to play.
19:03And the Bengals are like, cool.
19:04We don't have to pay for the next year or two.
19:05And then, of course, the Raiders came in with like two first round draft picks and pried
19:09him loose from that ridiculousness.
19:10But if Joe Burrow came out tomorrow and was like, I really want to get traded from the
19:14Bengals, they'd be like, you know what?
19:15How much does he make in the next three years?
19:17Well, I think we owe him 90 million.
19:18Oh, my God.
19:18If he sits out and we lose every game, but just think, we save $90 million off the books.
19:22Like, that's the Bengals for me.
19:23That's what they root for.
19:25Like, Trey Hendrickson, when I talk about him so many times, Mark, it's like they go, he can
19:29miss this weekend and we can charge him $100,000.
19:31Like, that is fantastic.
19:32We hope he doesn't even show up for the regular season.
19:34We'll save all of his salary.
19:35Like, wait a second.
19:36You're supposed to win championships here and the way you build toward it.
19:39Because, Mark, understand this, right?
19:40You're adding it to a season.
19:42Everybody's supposed to be pulling in the right direction to win a Super Bowl.
19:45Why are the Bengals every single year fighting with their best players over money they should
19:49already be receiving?
19:51I mean, again, the worst thing to happen to that franchise was them to make that Super Bowl
19:55run.
19:56It literally was the worst thing to happen because it did two things.
19:59One, it made you think you're better than what you were, what you're not.
20:02And it gave everybody a little bit of a sense of security that, hey, we're going to be
20:06good forever, that, hey, we can duplicate this again, that, hey, guess what?
20:10You know what?
20:10We're still going to be one of the top teams in the league.
20:13No, you're not.
20:14You have a bad coach, okay?
20:16You have bad front office, and ownership is getting in the way of making this team
20:20competitive year in and year out.
20:22This is the future of the Cincinnati Bengals.
20:23Sorry, Bengals fans.
20:24This is the reality you knew was coming.
20:26Yeah, and listen, if you want to look at where issues are year over year and you change a
20:32head coach and you change a front office, although the front office and since he has not been
20:36changed because Duke Tobin either has some dirt on Mike Brown or is his best friend, you're
20:42going to see the same issues.
20:43You want to point to one reason for a bad organization?
20:46Ownership is often that.
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