- 4 months ago
Dragons Den UK S22E12 >>> https://dai.ly/x9s8uvi
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TVTranscript
00:00Come on, Ronnie. Good boy.
00:18Come on, Ronnie.
00:20Hi, I'm Chris Roberts, otherwise known as Ranger Chris.
00:23I'm from Aberdeer, and I'm 43 years old.
00:26Come on, Ava.
00:28I've always had a passion for prehistoric life,
00:30so I really wanted to do something that I enjoy doing and loved.
00:34And they're going to meet the dragons.
00:35You excited?
00:38Whatever you do, don't eat them, OK?
00:40You as well, don't eat them.
00:42Wow.
00:43Chris's dinosaurs aren't the only blast from the past
00:46to hit the den tonight,
00:48as Joe Wicks makes a welcome return as a guest dragon.
00:53Joe, I'm glad you came back.
00:55The dragons didn't scare you off.
00:57No, you didn't scare me off.
00:58I loved it, and I'm just really grateful that you've been invited back,
01:00so I thought, you know, you're going to get me in once,
01:01then kick me out and say no, but, you know, I'm here,
01:03so I'm ready to get going again.
01:05Let's invest.
01:06Let's do it.
01:07Once that goes green, we walk in, OK?
01:10And let's go.
01:11We've been trading for eight years,
01:12and it is time to take the business forward to the next level.
01:17This is it.
01:18I'm well-versed at taming dinosaurs,
01:21and today I'm hoping I can tame those dragons.
01:23Good luck, Eva.
01:25Good luck, Ronnie.
01:31Wow.
01:36Wow.
01:36Look at that.
01:50Easy.
01:51Back it up.
01:52Back it up.
01:53Come on, Ronnie.
01:53Come on, Eva.
01:54Back it up a little bit for me.
01:55Hello, dragons.
01:58My name is Ranger Chris,
02:00and I'm the proud owner of Dino Mania.
02:03Dino Mania, we use these amazing puppets that you see in front of you,
02:07and many others, actually,
02:09to entertain and educate children all over the UK.
02:13We don't just educate, though.
02:15We actually also visit many festivals.
02:18We go to lots and lots of different events and museums.
02:22And we even have our own very special Dino Mania tour.
02:27That tours the UK, selling tickets to our amazing show,
02:30where these dinosaurs come up close and personal
02:32to all of the children and adults who come along.
02:36And we now are becoming one of the largest dinosaur entertainment businesses in the UK.
02:41And to date, we currently have over 3 million combined followers online.
02:45So, why am I here today, you may ask?
02:48Well, we're thinking of actually opening up our very own Dino Mania base camp,
02:53a fixed location where children and adults can come along
02:55and learn more about dinosaurs and the prehistoric world.
02:59Wow.
03:00So, dragons, I'm looking for £100,000 for 15% of Dino Mania in its entirety.
03:08And we're hoping that today...
03:10Well, you know what?
03:11I've been taming these dinosaurs for a long time.
03:12And we're hoping to tame some of you dragons today.
03:15So, Noel, behave.
03:17But does anyone want to come up and maybe...
03:19Could I?
03:20Yeah, of course you can.
03:21Of course you can.
03:21I'd love to.
03:22Do you want to come forward?
03:22Come on.
03:23You behave, though.
03:24I'd give them a little bit of a...
03:25Bringing dinosaurs to life through educational tours and workshops
03:29is the offering from Chris Roberts.
03:32The eyes are amazing.
03:33They're so good.
03:35He's looking for a £100,000 investment...
03:38Good girl.
03:40Well, she doesn't bite there.
03:41..in return for a 15% share of his business.
03:44Well done.
03:45Come on, then, you.
03:46Guest dragon Joe Wicks...
03:48Thank you, guys.
03:49Well done.
03:50..is first up with the questions.
03:52Oh.
03:56Ranger Chris, what a pitch, mate.
03:57I absolutely love that.
03:58You've got me captivated.
04:00And your personality and your energy
04:02and your presentation of that is incredible.
04:03So I want to know, like, what's your background
04:05and how did you become Ranger Chris?
04:06Um, it's a long story.
04:08My background's actually in window fitting.
04:11Oh, yeah.
04:12Didn't see that one coming.
04:13And I didn't really like it, to be honest.
04:15But when I first saw one of these dinosaurs on YouTube,
04:19funny enough, I actually thought, I need to get one.
04:22And the story started there, really,
04:24when I got my first dinosaur, Ronnie the T-Rex.
04:26It's amazing.
04:27They're so realistic.
04:28And obviously, I've got four kids myself,
04:30and they love anything dinosaur.
04:32It's such an imagination thing,
04:34and it really brings its life seeing the move as well.
04:35Of course, yeah.
04:36And that's one of the key aspects of the business.
04:38When you're sitting there as a child with your toys,
04:40playing with dinosaurs,
04:42and you just want them to become real again.
04:44And that's one of the things we've gone for in the business.
04:47So, talking about real, tell me the numbers.
04:50Give me some hard numbers about the business,
04:51the growth, what you've been doing.
04:52So, just before COVID, we were turning over £150,000.
04:56And we netted a small profit of £7,000, I believe.
05:02And then, of course, COVID hit.
05:04That year, we only turned over £23,000,
05:06with a net of minus 37.
05:10But the next year, we took it up to £280,000 in turnover.
05:18The net was £90,000.
05:20And then the year after, we done a £268,000 turnover.
05:24The net was minus 27.
05:26And now, we currently are looking at £270,000,
05:32with a net of around 30.
05:37When I look at the growth profile of your business
05:39from a revenue perspective,
05:40over the last three years, you've been pretty much stagnant.
05:43Stagnant. You're correct. Yeah.
05:44And so, as an investor,
05:46for me to get a return anytime soon in the next sort of five, six years,
05:49we need to see some pretty considerable growth.
05:51Yes.
05:52How big do you think this business can be?
05:54And how do you prove that to me?
05:56So, I'm a one-man band.
05:57I've been doing it all on my own for the past eight years.
06:00And there's only one of me.
06:02And I've started to learn that now.
06:04And I think we need to make more teams
06:07that can go to different festivals.
06:09We do loads of festivals.
06:11So, your idea is to hire more Chris's around the country?
06:15Not just more Chris's.
06:16More teams that can go into schools.
06:18Okay.
06:19Educational-wise.
06:20And how big do you think this business could be?
06:22The business, with regards to, I don't know,
06:25we talked about the base camp at the beginning,
06:27making a fixed location.
06:28I think that fixed location can be a huge success
06:32with even a 60% capacity.
06:35You're talking about the base camp turning over about 1.2 million.
06:38You said you have 3 million followers online.
06:41What platform were you referring to?
06:43So, we got 1.5 million on YouTube.
06:481.6 million when I put...
06:51Subscribers?
06:52Subscribers.
06:52That's amazing.
06:53And we've got 1.5 million on TikTok.
06:58Okay.
06:58What is the average view you get on a YouTube video?
07:01On a YouTube video, on a short,
07:03the average view on a short can be anywhere between 20,000 to 30,000.
07:09But we've had some massive ones as well.
07:11On a long-form video.
07:12Long-form is terrible.
07:14Okay.
07:14So, on a long-form video, what's your average view?
07:16Average view, 2,000.
07:18Okay.
07:18So, there's the problem.
07:19Yeah.
07:19So, something's happened with your YouTube channel.
07:21Because a channel with 1.6 million subscribers
07:23should never be getting 2,000 views.
07:25I often look at it myself,
07:26and I've been sort of trying to work it out.
07:28This is one of the reasons I'm here today, to be honest.
07:30Shorts, what happened was YouTube promoted shorts,
07:33and it really pumped everyone's channels.
07:34But the real important thing is that longer-term sort of average view time.
07:37How many of the videos are shorts?
07:39Most of them.
07:39Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
07:41I'd want to say 90%.
07:44Okay.
07:44So, that's an explanation.
07:45Yeah.
07:46We do a lot of shorts.
07:46Ranger Chris.
07:47Hello.
07:48Your actual plan for growth is this base camp.
07:51Uh-huh.
07:51Yes, yeah.
07:52And where would it be,
07:53and what are the characteristics that you're looking for
07:56in order to put it in a particular location?
07:59So, I'm looking for somewhere with a high footfall.
08:01That would be quite important.
08:03We have looked for one venue in Swansea.
08:06That's very good links, a very good parking.
08:09And what would that cost you?
08:11It was...
08:138,000 a month.
08:168,000 a month?
08:17Yeah.
08:17Okay.
08:18Yeah.
08:18Okay, that's doable.
08:19And what would be the set-up cost?
08:21The overall set-up cost,
08:23we're looking at around 80,000 to 100,000.
08:26So, I've got to say, 80,000 to 100,000
08:28sounds really tiny
08:30when you're looking at a theme park to attract people.
08:33I'm not going to call it a theme park as such.
08:35What is it, then?
08:36A base camp.
08:37So, it's an indoor...
08:38Yeah, well, you might call it a base camp.
08:39All right, I'm just talking generic.
08:41Okay.
08:42So, if we look at it in other respects,
08:44sort of, where you'd see kids go into a soft play area,
08:47it would be like that,
08:49where there's dig pits for kids and things like that,
08:51but they'd have the added extra
08:53of the walk-around dinosaurs,
08:56lots of, sort of, interactive animatronics
08:59and things like that.
09:01Ranger Chris Tuka.
09:03Hello, Tuka.
09:04Well, one-man band.
09:08Yes.
09:08You've been amazing.
09:09Thank you very much.
09:10You've been amazing.
09:10So, first of all,
09:12are you taking a salary out of all this?
09:14I am, yes, yeah.
09:16My salary at the moment is about 1,000p on a month.
09:20And can you live on that?
09:21No, no.
09:22Luckily enough, I've got a fantastic wife
09:24who has a fantastic job.
09:26She works very hard.
09:28And she's supporting you.
09:29She is doing an amazing job of supporting me.
09:31So, I'm very curious about this fixed location.
09:36Yes.
09:37Assuming you walk out of this den,
09:40you get an investment from one or whatever dragon,
09:43how does that first two or three years
09:46in that one location look like financially?
09:49The fixed location, the first base camp,
09:51if we opened, I'm going to say for the first year,
09:54you're looking at a net profit of about 300k.
09:59So, in other words, from the 300th profit,
10:02you could think about opening number two.
10:04Definitely.
10:05Definitely base camp number two,
10:06base camp number three.
10:07So, basically, how many do you believe
10:11you yourself could actually grow this to?
10:14So, if we're going into year one,
10:17and let's say every year you open one
10:19for three or four years,
10:21how big can this get?
10:23If we did open one per year, for instance,
10:25I think we could easily do
10:26five to six different venues in the UK.
10:29So, that would be five million, six million?
10:32Um, yes, yeah, you'd obviously...
10:35You'd have worked out some...
10:36Just to give us an idea of...
10:38So, say we open three, for instance,
10:41then I think, realistically,
10:45then you're looking at around about...
10:47Four million.
10:53Ranger Chris, I've got to jump in.
10:57Peter.
10:58This is a bit of a dinosaur of a business.
11:00I mean, you've spent a long time
11:03trying to build a business here.
11:04Yes.
11:04And you're now giving forecasts
11:06that I think are, frankly, impossible.
11:08Okay.
11:09The reality is that you have created
11:13a really interesting business for you.
11:17Yes.
11:17And you have created a business
11:19that has not given you much income.
11:22However, it's probably brought a lot of joy
11:24to a lot of young people.
11:26For this to have any opportunity
11:28of becoming a business at all,
11:31you have to have one thing.
11:33Scale.
11:34And there is no question
11:35that one person can get scale.
11:37You know, look what Joe has done.
11:39Yes.
11:39He brought the whole nation together
11:41at a time when we desperately needed something.
11:43Yeah.
11:43And he had the most amazing impact,
11:45not just because of his personality,
11:46it was because he was bringing something
11:49to the community.
11:49And you can clearly see
11:51that he was passionate about doing that.
11:52Yeah.
11:52And I think you're that person too.
11:56And I think that's where we're at.
11:57But how do we scale this?
12:00How do we scale this is what I'm questioning
12:02because that's what I'm concerned about.
12:04So having a venue,
12:05I don't think is the answer for you
12:06because you're going to have for £80,000,
12:09you'll have a piece of land and a terrapin.
12:11And that's not good enough.
12:13So I can't invest
12:15because I just don't see there's room
12:16for an investor here.
12:17I'm going to say that I'm out.
12:18But thanks for bringing some dinosaurs
12:20into the den to meet some dragons.
12:22Thank you, Peter.
12:25Chris.
12:26Hi.
12:27And I am getting massive deja vu
12:29from when you were talking about
12:32the projections and the business
12:34and the fixer.
12:35So we, in my business,
12:37we had a successful business
12:38and we decided to open fixed premises.
12:41And if we could take X amount turnover,
12:43we had a fixed overhead base,
12:44making this amount of profit
12:45and then we'd roll
12:46and one would fund the next
12:47and would fund the next
12:48exactly what you just explained to Tuga.
12:51And I got wrapped up
12:53in when we were doing it
12:54and I got really excited.
12:55But then the reality,
12:57you know,
12:57if you don't hit that 1.2 million
12:58and you only hit a million,
13:00that 200 is straight off your bottom line
13:02because you've got your fixed overheads.
13:03Yeah.
13:04And it so quickly can become
13:06what looks so great on paper,
13:08the reality is starkly different.
13:10So I'm really worried for you
13:12on the new business front.
13:14But your existing business,
13:15you've done a great job
13:16getting it where it's got to,
13:17building that business,
13:18making it profitable,
13:19everything.
13:20Yeah.
13:20You are a successful businessman.
13:22Hold on to that,
13:23take that forward
13:24and make a bigger success
13:25of the business that you've got.
13:27But I can't invest.
13:28So I'm going to say I'm out.
13:29Wish you all the luck.
13:30You know,
13:35as I've sat here
13:36and listened to this conversation,
13:37we're spending all of our time
13:38interrogating the financials
13:39of a new business.
13:41And so we're not investing
13:42in the product we have in front of us.
13:43We're investing in a promise.
13:44We're not investing in the business.
13:46We're investing in your belief.
13:47And that's really an issue
13:49as an investor
13:49because even well-intentioned beliefs
13:51and well-intentioned promises
13:52don't always come true.
13:53Okay.
13:54So I'm going to say that I'm out,
13:55but I wish you the best.
13:56Ranger Chris,
14:01I would urge you,
14:02you have got something
14:03that people want,
14:05you know,
14:06and it is,
14:06you're brilliant.
14:08They're brilliant.
14:10So I'd use what you've got.
14:11Use what you've got.
14:12And it's you.
14:12It's those amazing dinosaurs.
14:14Yeah.
14:14You know,
14:15and your ability to be agile
14:17and move around
14:18and show these
14:19to loads of different people.
14:21So I wish you all of the best.
14:23And I know you're going
14:24to find a way to it,
14:25but I won't be investing.
14:26I'm out.
14:32Well.
14:33Tuca.
14:35You've come here
14:36pitching a business
14:36you've already got.
14:38Yes.
14:38And I helped you a little bit.
14:40I always say
14:41it's like making a movie
14:42without a script in your head.
14:43Yeah.
14:43That's what I did for you.
14:45How big could it be?
14:46Yeah, yeah.
14:46Right?
14:47But the script
14:48wasn't really there.
14:49And because you've got
14:50your passion
14:51and because this is your business,
14:53I don't think
14:53you want an investor.
14:54I don't want an investor.
14:56Honestly.
14:58But I like you.
15:00And I hope you go far.
15:02But today,
15:03I'm not going to join in that journey
15:04and I'm out.
15:06Thank you, Tuca.
15:09Ranger Chris,
15:10before I do my close,
15:12I just want to ask you a question.
15:13Are you a dad?
15:13Have you got kids?
15:14Yeah.
15:14I bet you're an amazing dad.
15:16I can see you on YouTube
15:18doing longer form content.
15:19I can see you like,
15:20if you can capture that
15:21excitement and education
15:22because I'm always looking
15:23for channels where
15:24my kids can learn
15:25and watch and have fun
15:26at the same time.
15:27So I would,
15:28if I were you,
15:28if I was in your position
15:29with your kind of passion
15:30and all these amazing,
15:31you know,
15:32assets you've got,
15:33the dinosaurs,
15:33I would try and focus
15:35on longer form YouTube content
15:36because if you worked hard,
15:38before you know it,
15:38you could be earning
15:39two, three, four,
15:40five grand a month.
15:41It's really possible.
15:42You don't need millions of views
15:44to have a really good channel
15:45and so I would focus on that,
15:46you know,
15:46do what you're doing
15:47and try and bring that
15:48into longer form content,
15:49like little seven
15:50or eight minute episodes.
15:51It could be amazing
15:51and I'd tune in.
15:53Me and my kids
15:54will be watching it.
15:55So yeah,
15:56I want to wish you
15:56the best of luck.
15:57This is a business
15:57I don't think I can invest in
15:59but you,
16:00I think you're going to do amazing
16:01so good luck
16:01and I'm out.
16:04Well, very much.
16:05Thank you very much.
16:05Well done, mate.
16:09That's it for Ranger Chris
16:11whose time in the den
16:12draws to a close,
16:14leaving his chances
16:15of investment
16:15with a dragon
16:16as dead as the dinosaurs.
16:19Of course,
16:20I'm a little bit disappointed
16:21but I think that they really
16:23did love the dinosaurs.
16:24They loved me as well
16:25which is what
16:25the ultimate aim was.
16:27I thought your point
16:27about Longform UG
16:28was really on the money.
16:29Yeah.
16:31We're going to go
16:31and do a show tomorrow
16:33which is going to be amazing
16:34and it has inspired me
16:36a little bit
16:37to push myself
16:37a little bit harder
16:38and maybe prove them wrong.
16:41Wow.
16:42I love my business
16:43and it's going to continue
16:45with or without the dragons.
16:59Hi, my name's Steve
17:00and I'm from Swindon
17:01and this is my business partner Sam
17:03and he's from East London.
17:05Energy.
17:06Our product is
17:08trying to shake up
17:09the way things have always been done
17:10in a particular industry
17:11and also it's an alternative
17:12to dairy for those
17:13on a plant-based diet.
17:16Oh, interesting.
17:18What's nooch?
17:20Plant-based seasoning.
17:21Cool.
17:22I like the brand.
17:22It's pretty cool.
17:24We're hoping for
17:25Jo and Deborah.
17:27Deborah can bring
17:28a lot of experience
17:28especially in the vegan
17:30food and drink space
17:31and Jo is
17:33you know
17:34nutritionist, sports
17:35all that sort of thing
17:35so it's
17:36you know
17:36a great fit for us.
17:39My heart just went crazy.
17:41Yeah.
17:41Absolutely crazy.
17:42Me too.
17:43You ready to face the dragons?
17:44Yes.
17:44Let's do it.
17:46Okay.
17:47What are you doing?
17:49Hot potatoes.
17:49Hi dragons.
18:02My name is Sam.
18:02And I'm Steve.
18:04And we're the co-founders
18:05of Notorious Nooch.
18:06We're here today
18:07asking for
18:08£100,000 investment
18:10in exchange for
18:1120% equity
18:12in our fast-growing
18:13vegan food brand.
18:14We would love to reinvent it
18:16in the way people get
18:17their essential vitamin B12
18:18using our delicious
18:21plant-based nutritional yeast
18:22seasonings.
18:23Our range includes
18:24three flavours
18:25cheesy,
18:27smoky bacon
18:28and grilled chicken.
18:30They're all packed
18:31with protein,
18:32B vitamins,
18:34vitamin B12
18:34and they're all plant-based.
18:36Our Nooch is naturally
18:37flavoured
18:37and
18:38sorry Nooch
18:40nutritional yeast
18:41Nooch for short
18:42it's naturally flavoured
18:43and designed to be used
18:44by the handful
18:45so you can throw it
18:45on beans,
18:46soups,
18:47salads,
18:47pasta
18:48it makes a great
18:49cheese pasta sauce.
18:50We flavour our nutritional yeast
18:52with yeast extract
18:53and a teaspoon
18:55will give you 94%
18:56of your daily recommended
18:57intake of vitamin B12
18:59and over 2 grams
19:00of complete protein.
19:02Within just 4 years
19:03we've managed to get stocked
19:04in over 600 stores
19:06nationwide
19:06including major retailers
19:08such as Holland & Barrett
19:09and Whole Foods.
19:10There's hundreds of
19:11independent
19:11health food stores
19:12via our 10 trade distributors.
19:15The market opportunity
19:16for Notorious Nooch
19:17is huge
19:17from vegans
19:18and vegetarians
19:19looking for B12
19:20to flexitarians
19:21and meat eaters
19:22looking for more
19:22plant-based nutrition
19:23in their diet.
19:24Thank you so much
19:25for your time today.
19:26We're going to give you guys
19:26some samples.
19:28Lovely.
19:30A plant-based
19:31nutritional yeast seasoning
19:33rich in vitamin B12
19:35and protein
19:35is the offering
19:37from Steve Wildish
19:38and Sam Fresco.
19:41Shall I take one of them?
19:42Yes, yeah.
19:42Just take one.
19:43It's got the cheesy seasoning on it.
19:45They're seeking
19:45£100,000
19:46in exchange
19:48for 20%
19:49of their company.
19:50Now what's on this?
19:51That's still got
19:51the cheesy seasoning on it.
19:53The samples have garnered
19:54a healthy response
19:55from guest dragon
19:57Joe Wicks.
19:57I like the taste of it.
19:59It's really nice.
20:01But can the pair
20:02persuade the dragons
20:03to nourish
20:04their company's
20:05coffers
20:05with cash?
20:06Well, Sam and Steve,
20:10thank you for that
20:11lovely presentation.
20:13It's funny
20:13because I keep seeing
20:14this stuff pop up
20:15on Instagram.
20:16People making cheesy
20:17sauces and pastas
20:18with this...
20:19Well, I always think
20:20it looks like fish food
20:21that you spring
20:21off the top of the tank.
20:23I don't know what it is.
20:24What is nutritional yeast
20:25and where do you get it?
20:27Yeah, so it's yeast
20:29essentially.
20:30So there's
20:31a factory in Paris
20:32where we source our yeast.
20:35I think it's baker's yeast
20:36and it's grown
20:37in a tank of molasses
20:39and then they dry it out
20:41and they then
20:42take the yeast flakes
20:43and they toast them
20:44to different temperatures
20:45which provides
20:46different flavourings.
20:48Incredible.
20:49So if you want to
20:50tell me a little bit
20:50about your life,
20:51how long you've been running for
20:52and what your numbers have been?
20:53We've been running for four years.
20:55Our year in September.
20:56So year one,
20:57we did 18k.
20:58In year two,
20:59we did 39k.
21:00And in year three,
21:01we did 77k.
21:02So strong 90% growth
21:03year in year.
21:05Yeah, so 135k
21:06as of last September.
21:08That's brilliant.
21:09And so how big
21:10is the opportunity
21:11in the UK?
21:11I mean,
21:12it feels like a niche
21:13kind of,
21:13is it a vegan product
21:15or can anyone use this?
21:16And will you start
21:17to see this being used
21:18in all kinds of recipes?
21:20Anyone can use it.
21:21But vegans typically use it
21:23to have a B12 supplement.
21:24So it's very popular
21:25in the vegan community
21:26and vegans are
21:26our primary consumer.
21:29I love the branding.
21:30Tell me a little bit
21:30about how you got to this.
21:31So you've got
21:33a design background
21:33or did you get
21:34an agency for it?
21:35Yes.
21:36So we are also
21:36the agency too.
21:37So we designed it ourselves.
21:40It's amazing.
21:40It's quite fun.
21:41Yeah, it's a fun packaging.
21:42Pretty cool.
21:43You've got a design agency.
21:44How big is the design agency?
21:46It's about 15 people now.
21:47Okay.
21:48You've been running
21:48that together
21:48for a long time?
21:50About five years.
21:50Yeah, about five.
21:51Five years.
21:51So what size
21:52is that business
21:53in terms of revenue?
21:54About 1.5.
21:551.5 billion.
21:57Okay.
21:58It's quite typical
21:59of agency owners
21:59to launch a product
22:01after getting sick
22:02and tired of working
22:03with other people's brands.
22:04But what's your gross margin
22:05in that first year
22:06when you did 18K?
22:08First year,
22:08it was minus seven
22:09gross profit loss.
22:11Second year,
22:11it lost 7K.
22:13And third year,
22:13it lost 100 quid.
22:15Minus seven year one,
22:16minus two.
22:17And what's your net?
22:18Net minus 47 year one,
22:20minus 83 year two,
22:21minus 70 year three.
22:24If I was a client of yours
22:25and I came to you with this
22:27and I said,
22:28in three years' time
22:29with all your skills
22:30as a design
22:31and marketing agency,
22:32how much money
22:33are we going to be making?
22:34You wouldn't say to me
22:35we could be losing 70K
22:36and making 70K revenue.
22:37Correct, yeah.
22:38So something,
22:39I don't understand
22:39what's going on
22:40because you have the skill sets.
22:41You've just revealed to me
22:41that you have marketing skills,
22:42branding skills.
22:43This is a side project.
22:45You're making
22:45one point something million
22:46doing something else.
22:47So I don't blame you
22:48for not being focused
22:49because I wouldn't be
22:50if I was making
22:50one point something million
22:51somewhere else.
22:52Sure.
22:52So are we investing
22:53in your hobby?
22:54No, no,
22:55we're very focused on this
22:56and essentially
22:57trying to create something new
22:58and trying to bring
22:59a new brand to market.
23:00So we're not making this
23:01on our kitchen table
23:02kind of thing.
23:02We've partnered with
23:03some of the biggest players
23:04in the space.
23:05The idea is we're basically
23:05focusing on building
23:06that distribution network.
23:08Obviously the brand
23:08distribution are kind of key
23:09to this being something
23:10we can grow
23:11over the next three to five years
23:12and build a business
23:13of real value.
23:14Sam, Steve,
23:18is this a new category?
23:21Is this out there already,
23:22this type of product?
23:23Yeah.
23:23So yeah,
23:24the existing main competitor
23:25has been around
23:26on the market
23:27for about 30 years.
23:27It's in basically
23:28every single major supermarket.
23:30Okay, so people know
23:31what nooch is.
23:32That is terrible branding.
23:37It's like Kentucky Fried Chicken
23:39gone wrong.
23:41I don't even get your,
23:42I love the name
23:43Notorious Nooch,
23:44but that should be,
23:47there should be something
23:47about that.
23:48Can you do me a favour?
23:49Mm-hmm.
23:51Will you take this?
23:53Yeah.
23:54What I want you to do
23:55is just think about it
23:56for 10 seconds
23:57and I want one of you
23:58to give me
23:59a 30-second advert.
24:03Oh, that's brutal.
24:08So you're now,
24:10this is,
24:13this is now you,
24:14it's an advert
24:15for this business.
24:16Give me the 30-second
24:17elevator advert
24:18that's going to go out
24:20to consumers.
24:20OK.
24:26This is our flavoured
24:27nutritional yeast.
24:28This is the grilled
24:28chicken seasoning.
24:29You can sprinkle it
24:30on anything.
24:31There's no recipe required
24:32and it's the only
24:33niche you need
24:33in your diet.
24:37OK, what have we missed
24:38here by doing that?
24:42There's two things.
24:43One, I'm a consumer.
24:44I've got no call to action.
24:46Mm-hmm.
24:47The second thing is
24:48I haven't received
24:49your why.
24:51And I think that's
24:51what this lacks.
24:52This lacks a little bit
24:54of your why.
24:55I'll take that back.
24:57I'll answer the question
24:57in a second.
24:58What I want you to share
24:59with me is
25:00what is your why
25:01for this product?
25:02Why do I care
25:03and why should I buy it?
25:06You might not buy it,
25:07but those on a vegan diet
25:08probably would
25:09because they need
25:10B12 on the diet.
25:12So isn't now this
25:13starting to get your why?
25:15You go out there
25:15with why this is important.
25:17Yeah.
25:18You have to have this
25:19in your diet because.
25:21Yeah.
25:21This is the best
25:22seasoning product
25:22in the market because.
25:24And if you buy this,
25:26this is what will happen.
25:27I don't know.
25:28But Jim,
25:29Yeah.
25:29You're,
25:30I'm not getting the why
25:31when that was really
25:32important for me
25:32because not being vegan,
25:34I don't really understand it,
25:36but I understand
25:37how to sell.
25:39Have we got any vegans here?
25:42I have.
25:43So they're absolutely right.
25:46I always have
25:46a ton of nutritional yeast.
25:47I actually do
25:48quite enjoy it.
25:49But what do we worry about?
25:51We worry about
25:52B12 and protein.
25:54And this
25:54does both of those things.
25:57I also
25:58kind of agree
25:59with Joe
26:00and Peter.
26:01I think this is
26:02good branding
26:03and I think
26:04it's terrible branding.
26:08And I think
26:08it's good branding
26:09because that to me
26:10looks like a set of goods.
26:12If you had those
26:13on the shelf,
26:14I would know
26:15they belong
26:16to the same family
26:17and I would get to know
26:18what that family was.
26:21But they undersell
26:22your name
26:23and your name
26:24tells everybody
26:24exactly what it is.
26:27So what's the thinking
26:28behind that?
26:28Why have you hidden
26:29your name?
26:30So we initially
26:31had the name
26:32Cheesy Nooch
26:33or Nutritional Yeast Flakes
26:35right at the top.
26:36But we found
26:37like from some
26:38kind of market research
26:40and feedback
26:40that people were
26:42slightly confused
26:42with what to do with it.
26:44So we added in
26:45the word seasoning
26:46so it's cheesy seasoning
26:47which kind of opens it up
26:48into its actual use.
26:49Okay, so that starts
26:50to, that actually
26:51does start to make
26:52sense.
26:54Looking at that
26:55I know where
26:57how do I know
26:59that's plant-based?
27:01Your biggest selling point
27:03I know how you know
27:03because down there
27:04is the tiniest
27:07see that?
27:08Yeah, I would have missed it.
27:10Illegible
27:10little badge
27:12that says
27:13it's plant-based.
27:14I would go
27:14straight past that.
27:15I'd think
27:15oh that's smoky
27:16bacon seasoning
27:16that's not going
27:17to be plant-based
27:18is it?
27:19So I completely
27:20see why you're
27:21not growing.
27:22I think that's confusing.
27:24I think it's really
27:24really confusing
27:25and I'm your customer.
27:27Absolutely your customer.
27:31Is it not the case
27:32that you're kind of
27:32caught between two
27:33positions?
27:34We talk about
27:35branding and positioning
27:36but maybe one position
27:38the left pole of the
27:39positioning is nooch
27:40which is for vegans
27:41and then the right pole
27:42of positioning
27:43is healthy seasoning
27:45and that's for everybody
27:46and so you're in this
27:48weird spot in the middle
27:49where you know
27:50I tasted it
27:51and thought this is
27:51really lovely.
27:52I looked at the back
27:53I thought oh my god
27:53look at that
27:54nutritional profile.
27:55The amount of protein
27:56in this
27:56and it tastes that good
27:58I was like oh my god
27:59you should have just
27:59come in and said
27:59this is healthy seasoning.
28:00You know but you
28:02but you said nooch
28:03so my brain positioned
28:04you over it as this
28:05vegan nooch product
28:06that I've never heard
28:06of before
28:07but you're given
28:08genzennial packaging
28:09and so I'm a bit
28:10confused
28:11and I think sometimes
28:12when your positioning
28:14isn't super clear
28:15and when you do take
28:16the risky approach
28:17of trying to create
28:18basically a new position
28:19the education
28:21that has to come
28:21with it
28:22is difficult.
28:23I don't need to be
28:25a vegan
28:26or a nootcher
28:27to want to put
28:28this on my food
28:29but again I didn't
28:30know it was for me
28:30because you walked in
28:32and it says vegan
28:32there you said vegan
28:33nooch nooch nooch
28:34no idea what that is
28:35so I would never
28:36pick that off a shelf
28:37so I'm going to say
28:38that I'm out
28:38but I wish you
28:39the very best.
28:40Cool thank you.
28:44Firstly
28:44this whole category
28:46is like food
28:47and beverage
28:47is really challenging
28:48it's so competitive
28:49so I really love
28:50that you've tried
28:51to take something
28:52that's a pretty
28:52boring looking ingredient
28:54on a shelf
28:54and you've made it cool
28:56and I think it's quite fun
28:56it's quite Gen Z isn't it
28:58like the design
28:58and I suppose
28:59you know
29:00veganism is on the rise
29:01but I still do feel
29:02like it's quite niche
29:03so I find this really hard
29:05this is the hardest
29:07I'm finding this one
29:08quite hard
29:08because I really love
29:10I love what you've done
29:11and I actually
29:11emotionally
29:12I'd love to invest in you
29:13because I think
29:13you're doing something different
29:15but I think practically
29:17I'm just thinking
29:17it does feel so
29:19niche
29:19and the kind of volume
29:20you've got to do
29:21for it to be successful
29:21like you know
29:22hundreds of thousands
29:23of units
29:24to really make it a success
29:26and I'm kind of worried
29:26that you're going to
29:28just put so much into it
29:29and I'd hate to see
29:30you know
29:30you put more and more
29:31into it
29:32and it not succeed
29:33and therefore
29:34I know that I would
29:35emotionally just want
29:35to keep pumping money
29:36into it myself
29:37because I'm quite sensitive
29:38in that sense
29:39so I think
29:39I'd end up giving you
29:40a lot more than
29:41the 100k you want
29:42to get it where you
29:42need it to be
29:43so I want to wish you
29:44the best of luck
29:45but just let you know
29:45that I'm out on this run
29:46thank you
29:47good luck guys
29:49Sam and Steve
29:51do you know what
29:54I'm not sure
29:55it's a reflection of you
29:56as people
29:56you've got an agency
29:58background
29:58I think you've
29:59you've basically
30:00created a product
30:01in your spare time
30:03throughout your agency
30:04and you've taken it
30:05to market
30:05you've done probably
30:07one thing
30:08that many many people
30:09will never do
30:10I don't think
30:12you probably need
30:13to spend a lot
30:13more money now
30:14because you're there
30:15it's a market ready
30:17product
30:17you've taken
30:19great feedback today
30:20clearly on the branding
30:21you know what
30:21you need to change
30:22you know the messages
30:23that you need
30:23to be clearly
30:24selling this product
30:26I think hopefully
30:28that's the thing
30:28you're going to walk
30:29away with today
30:29and you're an agency
30:31that can create
30:31your own advert
30:33for this business
30:34I'm sure
30:34so for that reason
30:37I'm out
30:38but thanks for bringing
30:39it to my attention today
30:40thank you
30:41thank you
30:42I'll tell you where I am
30:43most entrepreneurs
30:46that come in the den
30:46are not in a position
30:49that you're in
30:49with a fallback
30:51they come in here
30:54and it's their dream
30:56they're passionate
30:57about it
30:58and that is it
31:00to even make or break
31:01in a lot of cases
31:02you know
31:03and
31:04first of all
31:06I don't see that
31:07in you guys
31:08you have something
31:09to fall back on
31:09you're lucky
31:11so my advice
31:12is very simple
31:13don't give up
31:14your day job
31:15stick to your day job
31:17because you might
31:18need that in the future
31:19but this
31:20is not investable
31:21for that reason
31:22I'm out
31:23thank you
31:24thank you
31:24Sam and Steve
31:26Tuka touched on
31:28something there actually
31:29which really hit a chord
31:30for me
31:31it's passion
31:32I always say
31:35when I sit in this chair
31:36I don't invest
31:37in the business
31:38I invest in the entrepreneur
31:39you haven't instilled
31:41in me
31:42that you've got
31:43the passion
31:43the drive
31:43and the excitement
31:44for this business
31:45or this product
31:45and I think
31:46the product's great
31:48so actually
31:49the product's won me over
31:50it's you guys
31:51that haven't won me over
31:52and that's a real shame
31:54so I'm sorry
31:56it's not an investment
31:57for me today
31:58I'm out
31:58thank you
32:00thank you
32:01I would definitely
32:06be a customer
32:06for this
32:07however
32:09I think this is muddled
32:10I think you've lost
32:11your way a little bit
32:12on this
32:13and I think what's happened
32:14is that it's gone
32:15onto the shelves
32:15it hasn't sold through
32:17as well as you've expected
32:18it to sell through
32:19you've tried to find out
32:20why that is
32:21you've kept changing things
32:22it's could have ended up
32:23in a place that's
32:24lost its reason to be
32:26so I think you do need
32:27to sharpen
32:27you've got to decide
32:29what you're trying to say
32:30on that front
32:31if it is for vegan
32:33shout that it's vegan
32:33if it is
32:34if it's for nutrition
32:35shout that it's nutrition
32:37but they are lovely
32:38I cannot criticise the taste
32:40they're very nice
32:40they deliver
32:41exactly what a vegan
32:42wants delivered
32:43but
32:44I'm afraid I won't be investing
32:46I'm out
32:46thank you
32:48thank you
32:49thanks guys
32:50good luck
32:51thank you
32:51good luck
32:52that's it
32:54for Sam and Steve
32:56whose product
32:58failed to whet
32:58the dragon's appetite
32:59to invest
33:00but the entrepreneurs
33:02leave the den
33:03with plenty of food
33:04for thought
33:04yeah I think
33:07we've got a bit
33:07to think about
33:08around positioning
33:09messaging
33:09how we communicate it
33:11and if
33:11yeah if it's not
33:12landing with them
33:13then clearly
33:13some bits
33:14need to be tweaked
33:15next to face the dragons
33:30were Andrew Telfer
33:31and Jill Erskine
33:32the husband and wife team
33:35were seeking
33:35£40,000
33:36in return
33:38for a 10% share
33:39in their business
33:40wild strong
33:41what do you reckon
33:43parkour in the park
33:45do you know what
33:47parkour is
33:47no
33:48it's when they like
33:49parkour
33:51parkour
33:52parkour
33:53you alright
33:56outdoor movement
34:01and strength classes
34:02intended to improve
34:04joint health
34:04flexibility
34:05and endurance
34:06were the actual
34:07offering
34:07and the dragons
34:10were keen
34:10to put a typical
34:11exercise
34:12to the test
34:13so
34:14Deborah
34:15if you could just
34:15stand over here
34:16I want you to imagine
34:17you're a cat burglar
34:18and these right here
34:19believe it or not
34:19are lasers
34:20and what I want you to do
34:21is I want you to get
34:22from point A
34:22to point B
34:23okay
34:23and he
34:25is going to help you
34:25I'll get out of your way
34:26if you want to stand there
34:27I'll go nice and easy
34:28to begin with
34:29okay
34:29come on
34:35come on
34:36speed up
34:36speed up
34:37don't be too kind
34:38get her low a little bit
34:39great
34:41and she's made it
34:42over to the other side
34:42I'll take those
34:43Deborah Meaden
34:44may have been light
34:46on her feet
34:46watch that
34:47she'll be bugging your ass
34:48but Tuca Suleiman
34:49was more interested
34:50in maths
34:51than mobility
34:52Jill and Andrew
34:55let's get some
34:57idea of numbers
34:59so
35:01the year ending
35:022023
35:03we had a turnover
35:04of 21,700
35:06and a loss
35:08of 7,200
35:10pounds
35:11and then
35:14the year
35:15ending
35:152024
35:16we had a turnover
35:17of 24,000
35:19and a loss
35:21of 6,000
35:22about 6,000
35:22this year
35:25we're on track
35:26to have a revenue
35:27of I think
35:2854,000
35:29and we'll have a net profit
35:30this year
35:30of about 4,500
35:31we're working on this
35:35on the side
35:35so you want us
35:37to invest
35:38in a business
35:38where you're not
35:40full time
35:40you've got very
35:42small turnover
35:43how do I get
35:45my money back?
35:46so if we can
35:47scale up our team
35:48so that we can
35:49offer more courses
35:50projected revenue
35:51would be
35:52262,000
35:53the part-time
35:57entrepreneur's
35:57modest turnover
35:58rang alarm bells
36:00with Peter Jones
36:01this is no more
36:03than a bit of a side
36:04play
36:04sort of get outside
36:05have a bit of fun
36:06and come and join
36:07my club
36:08that doesn't make
36:09this a business
36:10at the moment
36:10if I may
36:12we've identified
36:13a gap in the market
36:14within that
36:15currently
36:16we are oversubscribed
36:17but you might have
36:18identified a gap
36:19in the market
36:19but at the moment
36:20there's no market
36:21in that gap
36:21sorry I disagree
36:23we've sort of
36:24consciously
36:25tried not to scale
36:26up too quickly
36:27because we really
36:28wanted to make sure
36:28we were ready
36:29before we got
36:29investment
36:30the couple
36:33believed their
36:34business was in
36:34good shape
36:35to clinch a deal
36:36would fitness guru
36:38Joe Wicks agree?
36:40I started my career
36:42running a boot camp
36:43in Old Deer Park
36:44in Richmond
36:44so I love
36:46this concept
36:47and you can see
36:47look at her
36:47hanging from the tree
36:48she loved it
36:49didn't she
36:49but it's not really
36:51a business
36:51that I can put
36:5240 grand into
36:53because you're
36:53going to iron it
36:54out real quick
36:55and you're going
36:55to say
36:55Joe I need
36:56another 40 grand
36:57so I hate saying
36:59no but I don't
37:00think I can invest
37:01in this one
37:02so good luck
37:03but I'm out
37:04thank you
37:05sadly for Andrew
37:07and Jill
37:08none of the dragons
37:09felt moved
37:10to invest
37:11but it wasn't
37:13just the entrepreneurs
37:14who were left
37:15feeling the strain
37:16it's tough
37:17being a dragon
37:18joy isn't it
37:19it is tough
37:19yeah
37:20because you want
37:20to give everyone
37:21a chance
37:21don't you
37:21this is it
37:31hi my name's Amelia
37:33and I'm Lydia
37:34and we're sisters
37:35and co-founders
37:35from London
37:36how are you feeling
37:37a bit nervous
37:39we got this
37:40this year has been
37:41such a whirlwind
37:43we left our jobs
37:44and we essentially
37:45launched a business
37:46which is kind of daunting
37:47here we go
37:49here we go
37:51we're first time founders
37:53and although it's been
37:55a massive learning curve
37:56with the help
37:57of one of the dragons
37:58we know that we can
37:59make it really far
38:00really quickly
38:01this business is so
38:03close to our hearts
38:04and we're so so
38:05passionate about
38:06this area
38:07you can't shut us up
38:08hello dragons
38:16my name is Lydia
38:18and I'm Amelia
38:19and we are the founders
38:20of Ivy
38:21and we're here today
38:23to ask for 75,000 pounds
38:25in return
38:26for a 3% equity stake
38:28in our company
38:29so to start with
38:31I'm going to tell you
38:32about Carol
38:32who for 12 years
38:34worked her way
38:36up the career ladder
38:37to a senior leadership
38:38position
38:39before she decided
38:41to take a career break
38:42to have three daughters
38:43when she felt eager
38:45to return to work
38:46she hit a wall
38:48the application process
38:50was a minefield
38:51as a result
38:53she ended up taking
38:54a massive salary cut
38:56for a role
38:57far below
38:58her qualifications
38:59and her potential
39:00was wasted
39:01two of Carol's daughters
39:03are standing here
39:04before you
39:04witnessing our mum's
39:06struggle
39:07first hand
39:08inspired us
39:08to build Ivy
39:09a community driven
39:11marketplace
39:11that connects women
39:12returning to work
39:14with companies
39:15eager to access
39:15this untapped talent
39:17because this isn't
39:18just our mum's story
39:19it's the story
39:20of millions
39:21and millions
39:21of women
39:22in the UK alone
39:247 out of every
39:2510 women
39:26will struggle
39:27to return to work
39:28the majority
39:29taking lower paying roles
39:31into fields
39:32that stunt
39:33their career trajectory
39:34first and foremost
39:35Ivy is a community
39:37where women
39:38can openly discuss
39:39their return
39:39to work challenges
39:41through Ivy
39:42you can build confidence
39:43through accessing
39:44career guides
39:46templates
39:47and resources
39:48to put you
39:49in a position
39:49where you feel confident
39:50to not only apply for
39:51but to land roles
39:53so
39:54just like Carol
39:56you can create a profile
39:57on the Ivy platform
39:58and start browsing
39:59for roles
40:00based on the flexibility
40:01that you need
40:02every company
40:04has a returner rating
40:05which spotlights
40:07the key important policies
40:08that are often
40:09quite difficult to find
40:10we use behavioural
40:12nudge theory
40:12to actually encourage
40:14you to apply
40:15where you otherwise
40:16might not have had
40:16the confidence to do so
40:18for example highlighting
40:19if you're a top match
40:20and if you still have questions
40:21we have our AI career guide
40:23which is here to help
40:24providing specific content
40:26that is tailored
40:27to your career break length
40:28your industry
40:29and your skill set
40:30at Ivy
40:32we envision a world
40:33where a career break
40:34is just a break
40:35not a reset
40:36now it's too late
40:38for our mum
40:38but we are here
40:39to fix it
40:40for the next generation
40:41and make returning
40:42to work
40:43work
40:44an online platform
40:48to help people
40:49back into the workplace
40:50after a pause
40:51in their career
40:52is the brainchild
40:54of sisters
40:54Amelia and Lydia Miller
40:56they're seeking
40:58£75,000
40:59in return
41:01for a 3% share
41:02of their business
41:03first to find out more
41:05is Stephen Bartley
41:07Lydia and Emilia
41:11that was such
41:12a fantastic pitch
41:13thank you
41:14I really want to understand
41:17the business
41:18and what the actual product
41:19is here
41:19because I work with
41:20LinkedIn recruiter
41:21I've spent some of my life
41:22building social networks
41:23so I understand
41:23the complexities
41:24of network effects
41:25and user acquisition
41:26and all the troubles
41:26that you'll be facing
41:27so is this a recruitment platform
41:30for women at that stage
41:32of their life
41:33where they're returning to work
41:33is that really what it is
41:35yeah so women
41:36that are returning to work
41:37so this is not
41:38from maternity leave
41:39but they're out of the workforce
41:41they do not have a job
41:42and they're looking to return
41:43back into work
41:43this usually happens
41:45when their first child
41:46goes to nursery
41:46when they have that time again
41:48at this point
41:49they are
41:49they're in the job market
41:50and there are key problems
41:52that keep coming up
41:52every time
41:53the biggest one
41:55is confidence
41:55and so that's why
41:57we're not just a jobs board
41:58we offer community
41:59we offer upskilling
42:00we help them understand
42:01what they've missed
42:02on let's say
42:03they've been out for three years
42:04yeah
42:04what's AI
42:06if you can have three years
42:07you wouldn't know that
42:08you know
42:08it's so interesting
42:09so the product itself though
42:11so
42:11yeah so as
42:12the journey as a returner
42:13is you sign up
42:14you can access the community
42:15you can then
42:16use our jobs platform
42:18to browse the roles
42:19that are live
42:20the only roles
42:21that go on there
42:22are from pre-vetted companies
42:23that will be paying
42:24us a subscription
42:25to post their roles
42:26and to hire
42:27from this talent pool
42:28okay
42:29Amelia
42:32Lydia
42:33hi
42:33oh
42:34hello
42:34music to my ears
42:37honestly
42:37I talk to so many
42:39brilliant women
42:40who somehow
42:41when they're returning
42:42to work
42:43have lost all the confidence
42:44they've built up
42:45through their career
42:45and somehow believe
42:47that they
42:47they have lost
42:48their value
42:49you know
42:50so honestly
42:51absolutely music to my ears
42:52the question is
42:53is this going to help them
42:54now this is currently
42:55in use
42:56you say
42:57yes
42:58okay
42:58so we're out of
42:59testing phase
42:59we're still in the
43:01testing phase
43:02I'd say
43:02we launched
43:02we started trading
43:03one month ago
43:04oh
43:04okay
43:05and so who's
43:06who's on there
43:07who's using it
43:08at the moment
43:08so in terms of the
43:10paying company clients
43:11that we have
43:11we've gone for
43:12four very different
43:13clients
43:13the reason being
43:14we want to test it
43:15on different sized
43:16companies
43:17and in different
43:18industries
43:19on the returner side
43:20our marketing channel
43:22has been directed
43:23at women
43:24who are returning
43:24to marketing
43:25finance
43:27sales
43:28customer service
43:29and consultancy
43:30girls
43:34you've absolutely
43:35smashed this pitch
43:36I love your energy
43:37I can tell your sisters
43:38I can just bounce
43:38on each other
43:39I can just
43:39see how much
43:40this means to you
43:41what a great idea
43:41so I want to ask
43:42the question
43:42what do you do
43:44for a living
43:44have you both got jobs
43:45yeah so
43:46we actually left
43:47our jobs
43:47four months ago
43:48which has been
43:49quite scary
43:49I love that
43:50I love quitters
43:51you know
43:51because quitting
43:52is hard right
43:52yeah
43:52I completely agree
43:54yeah
43:54look at you
43:55so go on
43:55you quit your job
43:56so what were you
43:56doing for work
43:57before
43:57so I am
43:58a published
43:59psychologist by trade
44:00through the
44:01University of Cambridge
44:01after I left
44:03Cambridge
44:03I did a massive
44:04180 and went
44:05into banking
44:05I then did
44:06another 180
44:07and joined
44:07as health startup
44:08doing a little bit
44:09of everything
44:09as a team member
44:10and that
44:11hopefully has put me
44:12in a really good
44:13position to then
44:13to then jump
44:14and become a founder
44:15and what about yourself
44:16yeah so
44:17I was with Deloitte Ventures
44:19corporate venture capital fund
44:20where we invested in
44:21a load of startups
44:22which was really fun
44:23absolutely loved it
44:24you were a mini dragon
44:24aren't you
44:25yeah one day
44:26do you know what
44:27I can't beat him
44:28can you give him
44:28stump him
44:29please
44:30hold my drink
44:31hold my beer
44:33so it's so wonderful
44:35because you're so wonderful
44:36and it's so easy
44:37to be positive
44:38and optimistic
44:38when we're talking
44:39about plans and dreams
44:40but the reality
44:41of scaling a social network
44:42is like chewing glass
44:45it really is
44:46because everybody
44:48wants to acquire customers
44:49the same customers
44:50you want
44:50for their social network
44:51their recruitment site
44:52whatever
44:53because I know
44:53LinkedIn recruitment
44:54they've
44:55in pretty deep conversations
44:56with me about supporting them
44:57on a number of things
44:58and I've also spent a long time
45:00scaling social networks
45:01and I've chewed the glass
45:02and I've gone through the pain
45:04what are you going to do
45:05to beat out all of these
45:06other recruitment sites
45:07communities
45:08social networks
45:08that are trying to steal
45:09that customer
45:10yeah it's a really good question
45:12and to answer that
45:12I'd say you know
45:13you found it so difficult
45:14you did it
45:14you know
45:15and you did it well
45:16I had to chew glass
45:16for 12 years
45:17since I'm 18 in San Francisco
45:18yeah but
45:20I didn't burn cash
45:21my software company
45:23in San Francisco
45:23has raised $31 million now
45:25and it's probably
45:26you know
45:26burned $15 million
45:28of that
45:28just on the customer
45:29acquisition point
45:30yeah
45:31yeah 100%
45:32totally agree with
45:33everything you've raised
45:34to that point
45:35providing genuine value
45:36through not only our community
45:38but the jobs
45:39and the calibre of companies
45:40we have on the platform
45:41will lead to organic
45:42waterfall
45:43word of mouth referrals
45:44word of mouth referrals
45:46is zero cost
45:47we're not funnelling
45:48loads of spend
45:50into performance marketing
45:51which a lot of startups
45:52at an early stage
45:53fall into the trap of doing
45:54we know that
45:54we don't want to do that
45:56and my last question
45:56is are we part of a
45:57broader capital raise
45:58or is this
45:59we closed off the round in March
46:01what was the valuation
46:01that was $2 million
46:02$2 million
46:03and you're going to need
46:04to raise a lot more capital
46:05yeah we're going out
46:06to raise again next year
46:07how much
46:08between $1.5 and $2 million
46:10hmm
46:12I think you might need
46:14to raise a little bit more
46:15and that's quite important
46:19to know now
46:20when you're asking
46:20for what you're asking for
46:21for just 3%
46:22because whatever's
46:23going to happen
46:24we've got to clearly
46:26either double down
46:27and follow on
46:28at higher
46:28much higher valuations
46:29or be diluted
46:30to a very small amount
46:32yeah
46:34Lydia and Amelia
46:37you two are brilliant
46:40but
46:41I'm sitting on the fence
46:43and saying
46:44what is the potential
46:45of this
46:46give me the figures
46:47for the next two years
46:49of what you believe
46:51you're genuinely
46:52going to generate
46:53or are you here
46:55just a bit early
46:56so we'll be operating
46:58at a loss this year
46:58so it will be
46:59so it will be
47:0082 roughly
47:02thousand pound loss
47:03this year
47:0382
47:0382
47:04so year two
47:06still a loss
47:06our aim is to hit profitability
47:08in between four and five years time
47:11four and five years time
47:14so in
47:16in three years time
47:17we'll be at
47:18a 12 million pound
47:19annual
47:20recurring revenue
47:21and in five years time
47:23where we scaled globally
47:24we'll be at
47:25a 367 million
47:27annual
47:28net revenue business
47:29well I'm going to tell you
47:32where I am
47:33I do believe in you
47:36unfortunately
47:40I don't believe in your journey
47:42it's too long
47:43I think you'll get there eventually
47:45with determination
47:46but you're going to need
47:47a lot of money
47:48and I can't see myself
47:50putting more money in
47:51and more money in
47:52because I think
47:53the return at the end
47:54will be very minute
47:55so I'm going to say to you
47:57I'm not going to join you
47:58on this journey
47:59I'm out
47:59thank you very much
48:00thank you
48:00Lydia
48:05I'll tell you where I am
48:06I think
48:07the issue is
48:08scale over valuation
48:09and investing at
48:12even 5%
48:14at a 1.5 million valuation
48:15with what you need
48:16I believe
48:17that you're going to need
48:19the best part
48:20of 5 to 10 million
48:21to get this
48:22to a decent place
48:24which means
48:25a lot more money
48:26going in
48:27after me investing
48:29if I was to make you
48:30an offer today
48:30so
48:31I'm sorry
48:32I'm going to say
48:33that I'm out
48:33thank you
48:35Lydia and Amelia
48:38valuation is hard
48:40it's really hard
48:41and this is the thing
48:42that's holding me back
48:43because
48:43I like to be
48:44really excited
48:45you know
48:46and I like it
48:47I like a business
48:48to be the thing
48:48I'm thinking about
48:49in the shower
48:49on the dog walk
48:50you know
48:51because I think
48:52that
48:52that's how you show up
48:54best as an investor
48:54you really start
48:55to get obsessed with it
48:56Violet
48:58come on
48:58give them a chance
48:59don't talk yourself
48:59out of it
49:00stick with that
49:01train of thought
49:01give them a chance too
49:02you're the king of community
49:03I'm going to follow you
49:04you're going to follow me
49:05I just think
49:05I think you'd be
49:07a great dragon for this
49:08I really do
49:08I think you'd be
49:09a great dragon for this
49:09thanks for backing us up
49:10you're the king of community
49:11sorry I wasn't trying
49:12to interrupt
49:13I was just saying
49:13I think they're great
49:14and I think
49:14you're going to try
49:15and talk yourself out of it
49:16I think
49:16I'm fighting for you
49:19I'm rooting for you
49:19where's my bloody nose
49:24it's the valuation
49:28it's annoying me
49:29yeah what's holding back
49:29purely valuation
49:30girls look
49:39I'm going to get
49:39the ball rolling
49:39okay
49:40I'm a gambling man
49:41and I want to take
49:41a punt on you
49:42and look
49:43I know you might not
49:44want my money
49:44because I'm just a fitness guy
49:45but I know about
49:47digital acquisition
49:47I've got a great team
49:48who could definitely help
49:49so you've asked for
49:50£75,000 for 3%
49:52I'd like to run through
49:54the cash
49:54£75,000
49:55for 5% of the business
49:57and yeah
49:58I'll leave you with that
49:59and obviously
49:59let's see what the dragons say
50:00but hopefully
50:01they might jump on now
50:03and see how much
50:04of a great investment
50:04this could be
50:05thank you so much
50:06for the effort
50:06Lydia and Amelia
50:10I'm sure you are not
50:12remotely surprised to hear
50:13that I absolutely love this
50:15and this is something
50:15very close to my heart
50:17and the work that I do
50:18in this area
50:19I don't know if you know
50:20but I'm an ambassador
50:21of Smartworks
50:22our purpose
50:23is to get women
50:24back into work
50:25and also I do a lot
50:26of speaking
50:27and consulting
50:28with bigger businesses
50:29who are working hard
50:32on solving this problem
50:33in their company
50:34now
50:35I don't have experience
50:37in building social networks
50:39a lot of what you said today
50:40felt like Swahili to me
50:42it really did
50:43however
50:44I can tell you now
50:45there is no better person
50:46sitting in this den
50:47who knows this problem
50:48first hand
50:49who is really an advocate
50:50and a voice out there
50:51for this
50:51so
50:53I am prepared
50:54to make you an offer
50:55however
50:56I won't offer you
50:57all of the money
50:58I am prepared
51:00to offer you
51:01£25,000
51:02but for my
51:04£25,000
51:05I would want
51:062% of the business
51:07which means
51:08you'll still need
51:09to get the remaining
51:09£50,000
51:10from one or more dragons
51:12thank you very much
51:13for your offer
51:14interesting
51:15very interesting
51:16so Lydia, Amelia
51:19I disagree with Sarah
51:21I think
51:22I think I equally have
51:24and have long term
51:25had a voice
51:27I mean whenever
51:28I talk to any organisation
51:29particularly the women
51:32you know
51:32I talk all the time
51:34about how
51:34difficult it is
51:35for them to get back
51:36into the war
51:37has been
51:37how difficult it is
51:38once they get there
51:39so I
51:41I know I've got
51:42a big audience in this
51:43and I would love
51:45to be part of this
51:46so
51:47I'm going to
51:48make you an offer
51:48and I'm going to
51:49offer you all of the money
51:50and I too
51:52want 5% of the business
51:53thank you very much
51:55for the offer
51:56it's just me isn't it
52:01bloody hell
52:02I wasn't done thinking
52:03yeah I think it's great
52:06I think you're great
52:09okay
52:10I really like what you're doing
52:11and I like it
52:12for so many reasons
52:13in terms of
52:15where I find myself
52:16in my career
52:17where I'm
52:17part owner
52:19in a recruitment business
52:19and my background
52:21in technology
52:21I first started working
52:23in San Francisco
52:24when I was 18
52:24I've chewed all the glass
52:26and I've chewed the glass
52:27so that you guys
52:28don't have to
52:29so when I look
52:30at a business like this
52:31the thing that I can add
52:32is I know the set
52:33of key problems
52:34that you're going to face
52:35so I think I'm
52:37the perfect investor
52:37for you
52:39so I am going
52:41to make you an offer
52:41I'm going to make you
52:43an offer
52:43for the money
52:45you've asked for
52:46for 7.5%
52:48well thank you
52:51very much
52:52thank you
52:53we're going to have a chat
52:54we'll go to the wall
52:55good luck
52:55take your time
52:56thank you
52:57no rush
52:57Lydia and Amelia
53:00have received
53:01four rival bids
53:03and that was so dense
53:06so dense
53:07Sarah Davies
53:09has offered
53:09a third of the money
53:10for 2%
53:12but that relies
53:13on teaming up
53:14with other dragons
53:15so we're happy
53:16to give away
53:166% of the company
53:17that's the limit
53:18I said we'd go to
53:19offering the full
53:21£75,000
53:22Joe Wicks
53:23and Deborah Meaden
53:24both want a 5%
53:26stake for themselves
53:27big negotiation
53:29we can say
53:30could we have you both
53:31half the money
53:32each
53:326%
53:33it's risky
53:34that's halving our valuation
53:36that's halving our valuation
53:37yeah
53:37while Stephen Bartlett
53:40wants a higher share
53:41of 7.5%
53:43citing his experience
53:44in recruitment
53:45and tech
53:46as his key selling points
53:487.5%
53:49is really steep
53:507.5%
53:50is really steep
53:51okay
53:52let's see
53:53we're back
54:00that took a while
54:01that's alright
54:02first of all
54:05thank you
54:05for your offers
54:07we will say
54:08that we did come
54:09in here
54:10with two dragons
54:11in mind
54:11and those dragons
54:13are Deborah
54:14and Stephen
54:15and so
54:17what we'd like
54:18to propose
54:19is potentially
54:20a joint investment
54:22from you both
54:23we were thinking
54:24the way it would work
54:25would be
54:25half of the money
54:27each
54:27for 6%
54:29and Stephen
54:31I know this is
54:32slightly less
54:33than you originally asked
54:33we think this would be
54:34an amazing partnership
54:36I'm happy
54:38what were you expecting
54:48though
54:48I mean
54:49that's kind of
54:49the only thing
54:50they could do
54:51how do I
54:54how do I get to
54:55the levels
54:56that I want to get to
54:56because that would
54:57leave me
54:57effectively
54:58with 3%
54:59so typically
55:00the minimum
55:00I would do it
55:01would be about
55:025%
55:02for a company
55:03at this level
55:04I really think
55:05I can change
55:06this business
55:06but I also think
55:07I could offer you
55:08a floor in my office
55:09which is an isolated
55:10penthouse floor
55:11in my central HQ
55:12in London
55:13surrounded by
55:14exceptional people
55:15who have done
55:15what you're trying to do
55:16and I'll include that
55:17in the deal
55:18so I'm going to
55:19stick to my original offer
55:20I liked my original offer
55:21so my offer is
55:23$75,000
55:24for 7.5%
55:25of the business
55:26you know
55:29really
55:29would love
55:30the expertise
55:31of Deborah
55:32as well
55:32as part of this deal
55:33and I think
55:33that's what's
55:34for me
55:35yeah
55:36I was going to say
55:37hesitating
55:37Stephen is there a way
55:39we could
55:39encompass everything
55:41you've just said
55:42essentially scale it all
55:43back from that
55:447.5%
55:46to a 5%
55:47investment
55:48today
55:48so
55:49essentially taking
55:51the $75,000
55:52down
55:52I would do that
55:54at $50,000
55:54investment today
55:55at $50,000
55:56investment today
55:57but then with the
55:57I'll give you the
55:58floor in the office
55:59and could we have
56:01that floor for two years
56:02I'd like you to be in there
56:07um
56:08okay
56:09here's what I'll do
56:10I'll do
56:11the $50,000
56:12for 5%
56:13and I'll give you
56:15four desks
56:16for 12 months
56:18uh okay
56:19so I'm offering you
56:20$37,500
56:21for the 3%
56:23yes
56:24okay
56:24and then the additional bit
56:26is the office space
56:27so Steve
56:27I'm very happy with that
56:29perfect
56:30perfect
56:30we've got a deal
56:31we've got a deal
56:31we've got a deal
56:31excellent
56:32well done
56:33thank you so much
56:35success for the sisters
56:38yeah well done
56:39as they win the backing
56:40of two dragons
56:42well done guys
56:43thank you so much
56:44thank you so much
56:45for listening to us
56:45and thank you
56:46thank you
56:46congratulations
56:47with their expertise
56:50and profile behind this
56:51business
56:52the sky's the limit
56:53my brain
56:59and this pair
57:00are already scaling
57:01new heights
57:02did we just get
57:03the penthouse
57:04in Stephen Bartlett's
57:05London office
57:06I'm yeah
57:07I'm kind of in shock
57:08yeah
57:08well Stephen and Debra
57:10well done
57:11founders like that
57:12you just
57:14have to
57:15invest in
57:16grab them
57:17grab them
57:17have to invest in
57:18Stephen they're a force
57:19they're a force
57:20I'm happy with that
57:21I'm happy with that
57:22we've got our two favourite dragons
57:23we've got our two favourite dragons
57:24what are we going to do
57:26to celebrate
57:26I don't know
57:27just try and digest
57:29everything
57:29and then
57:30call our mum
57:32tell her the good news
57:33as well
57:33that's probably the first thing
57:34we need to do that now
57:35so happy
57:37yeah
57:37on cloud nine
57:38that was amazing
57:39next time
57:50the return
57:51of a special guest
57:53look who's back
57:54missus
57:55nice to see you again
57:57what do you think
57:57be honest
57:58it gets worse
57:59before it gets better
58:00I've heard that before
58:01isn't that the biggest investment
58:03ever on dragon's den
58:04they are singing and dancing
58:11it is the girl group challenge
58:13and boy
58:13do they have a pop queen
58:14to assist
58:15on BBC 3 now
58:17here next
58:18it's the first dirty deed
58:19about to be done
58:20stick around
58:21if you dare
58:22for the celebrity traitors
58:23we'll see you next time
58:25and we'll see you next time
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