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00:00the doors to the den are open once again
00:09and our five multi-millionaires are keen to dig deep and invest their cash
00:17to help the next generation of entrepreneurs find fortune and glory
00:22they'll occasionally be joined by some special guests including health and fitness heavyweight
00:30joe wicks violet come on give them a chance don't talk yourself out of it i'm fighting for you i'm
00:36rooting for you and superstar fashion founder emma greed i would happily give you the 250 grand
00:42but i wouldn't do it for one percent now the hunt is on to find the next big deal
00:52hi i'm dr samuel bailey and i'm from london i am a serial inventor i've always liked making
01:04things quite often i'll wake up in the middle of the night there's a problem i was working on
01:07it was 2am and suddenly i was like i've got it that's the solution to the problem
01:12my house is a little bit of a laboratory so our house has prototype heating systems
01:18it's got prototype plumbing systems we've had this product that we presented today being tested
01:25on myself and on my family for the last five years i'd love for something i make to you know make
01:31significant difference to people's lives i think this product can be one of them because it can really
01:36really help people a lot and be in hundreds of millions of homes across the world
01:40i'm very nice to meet you dragons i'm dr samuel bailey and i'm here to pitch for a hundred thousand
01:52pound investment in return for five percent of the equity in my company pipa technologies
01:57last year the uk fire and rescue service attended 10 500 cooking fires cooking is the number one cause
02:06of fires in the home responsible for just under half of all house fires so i invented pipa pipa is
02:13an ai pad cooking monitor that can tell whether something dangerous is going to happen on the
02:17stove several minutes before it actually happens pipa knows whether the pan is going to burn or
02:23whether you've stopped cooking and left the stove on pipa simply sticks to the wall above the stove and
02:28monitors the temperature of each of the pans if the pan started to burn pipa simply speaks a warning
02:33warning stove left on and sounds an alarm to alert you if you've left home or you're out of hearing
02:41pipa can phone and text you or a carer to warn of the danger pipa is also part of a connected
02:46ecosystem there is a smart cooking assistant app that provides guided cooking and there's a risk
02:50monitoring system that can identify whether people are starting to become a danger to themselves and
02:54perhaps need extra help um if i may can i give you a pipa to have a look at an ai hob and stove monitor
03:03that helps prevent fires and assists with cooking is the offering from dr samuel bailey thank you
03:12thank you he's looking for an investment of a hundred thousand pounds in exchange for a five
03:17percent share of his company deborah meaden is first to find out if the entrepreneur is as smart as his device
03:29so dr samuel bailey do i call you dr samuel bailey or sam yes thank you um what what's in your background
03:38what are you a doctor of that enables you to uh to invent this okay um so i'm not a medical doctor i
03:46have a phd in computer science uh so i've worked for various large electronics companies on ai
03:52intelligence uh early self-driving cars and i started a company about 10 years ago to develop a renewable
04:01heating system that invented we then uh invented a product called leak bot and they're trying to
04:06detect a leak in the pipes basically before it causes damage in the home um and that's given
04:12us enough investment that we could then build pippa can you just explain um give me some financial
04:17i'd like to understand the size of the business at the moment okay so um we've probably invested
04:23about 400 000 pounds into the r&d um now what we're doing is exploring you know where's the best
04:31place to get this to market um and we're starting to target care home operators and councils
04:37to try and get it into so your pre-revenue yeah we've we've probably got revenue about 60 000
04:43pounds all right yeah pretty much pre-revenue all right and what will it cost for uh for a unit to
04:50to buy uh so they're currently retail 180 including vat all right so it's a chunky sum of money it's
04:56chunky someone at the moment if we hit volume we get the cost down and we'd love to get it so volume
05:02currently manufacture for about 90 pounds and we may get down to 25 30 right so a big a really big
05:08order and once you start getting at scale then it becomes much more within people's reach and the
05:12price that you're talking at the moment that includes all of the software so the what you're
05:18looking at there is the smart cooking app yeah that's free that's what we usually do is we bundle
05:23so if you want the text messages or the automotive phone messages currently we charge 39 pounds a year for
05:29people to get that service and which ai platform are you using so um it's all our own software is it
05:37yeah uh and the software runs entirely in the device so that has got a chip in there that's about a dollar
05:4440 and runs all the ai on that single processor um it's just more efficient it's more reliable
05:50and when you say sam sorry sam when you say ai what do you mean what what type of ai are you
05:57referring to so uh there's different types of ai um this is a classifier so a classifier is something
06:04that recognizes things so it might be something like a self-driving car can recognize an obstruction
06:10um what this is doing is it's classified is this a hazard is this not a hazard so what is classified
06:16as a hazard then is it an an oil fire is it just that there's heat on and someone has walked away
06:23uh so it's looking for three main things one is that the oil is going to approach its auto ignition
06:28temperature so if i put a pan of oil on the stove at about 240c it'll start to smoke what we actually do
06:33is we alarm at about 230c um hits close to 400 it ignites yeah so what we actually do is we
06:39the classifier's going okay that's that pan's got oil in it the hazard with an oil pan is that it
06:44hits this auto ignition temperature so we pre-warn you um if it sees that something's boiling on
06:49there if we see that start to boil dry that's the point at which your food's going to combust and then
06:54it warns you um and then what it also does is it can tell the difference between a gas flame and then
06:58a flame from a tea towel um so if it sees flames it can detect those in 20 to 30 seconds um on the box
07:07it says smarter and safer cooking yes i this weekend i made some food right yep and on the packaging
07:14it said that i had to heat the oil to a certain 170 degrees it said and it said keep it there yeah
07:20now i was sat there thinking this weekend i was like how am i going to know if it's 170 the oil
07:25yep there you go the paper smart cookie now see this is interesting because you can not only prevent
07:30hazards but you can also help people as this technology develops cook better yes
07:38sam what what other things do you do what other businesses are you involved with
07:42uh so 10 years ago i started skyrad which is a company that developed leak bots for the funding of
07:48this i then i have a a sideline running a low carbon footprint electric transport system we do consulting
07:58for uh octopus energy so we're designing bits of renewable heating systems for them um i do technical
08:05due deal um on ai and renewable energy for various investment companies okay and and the business what's
08:11it called uh skyrad s-k-y-r-a-d what did you get that turnover last year uh 400k something like that
08:18400k and you want investment in pepper yeah um i want to invest in skyrad
08:28okay yeah is that possible yeah because the reason why i say that is because i generally think that you
08:36are clearly a very very skilled in creator and inventor and it would be so much more interesting
08:43to be part of all of your projects right so not just this and there's an element of spreading the
08:48risk there as well risk factor uh probably what i'm doing right yeah yeah no exactly so you've asked
08:54for a hundred thousand pounds for five percent i would like to make you an offer over the all of
08:59the hundred thousand pounds yeah but i would like 12 and a half percent of skyrad oh mate right before
09:07i say yes i'm going to open it to the floor sam i think you're great i think you're great
09:18have you been around you're great as well peter yeah obviously things were all lovely i'm not going
09:22to ask you who your favorite dragon is you can relax um i like you enough and your product
09:29enough to get competitive with mr jones oh uh but it would be on the basis exactly as peter
09:36said i think you kind of have to bring those two together understood yeah um i'm the specific
09:41value that i can add for you is um contacts with the local authorities okay um so i'm going
09:47to offer you all of the money but i want 10 of the business okay great offer much better offer
09:54i mean i i i obviously want both of your not necessarily cash but both your input um i mean
10:01is the possibility you'd work together and we'd um well hang on hang on sorry took it look um
10:08um sam i i i like you a lot and i think um you know i can see what i can add to you i mean apart
10:16from my contacts in local authority yeah um i'm also involved in property development yeah more than
10:23that i think i could definitely help you reduce the price of that yeah so i'm going to also make
10:30you an offer okay so i'm going to offer you all of the money yeah and i'll match deborah's offer of 10
10:38percent okay dr samuel um congratulations oh you've got a you've invented a brilliant product
10:49that i think can genuinely make a difference and can save some lives which not many people can say
10:53that um i don't think this is for me and i don't think i'm the dragon for you okay but i think you've
10:59got some fantastic offers so i want to wish you all the best in negotiations that i'm about to have a
11:04seat for good luck but i'm out wonderful thank you very much steven dr sam i think um it's so
11:15interesting because i think it's really really cool yeah um i'm very interested in ai yeah i'm not
11:23as interested in this industry home appliances and delivered in this way right so i think i'm
11:28gonna say that i'm out yeah however this could be massive and it could also very easily be yeah
11:38that it could become nothing yeah so good luck and um very well done for what you've created cool
11:44thanks dude all right it's all yours now big decision i mean i is there i would i'd really appreciate
11:53peter's input i'd really appreciate debbie's input i'd appreciate tuka's input um and what are the
11:59rules do i need to pick one of you could you work together no you could ask if any combination you
12:04want to share i mean would you would you share what who do you want to share i mean i'd take all of
12:09you if possible that's a bit broad bro i might beat you down slightly on equity but if you yeah i mean
12:17if three of you wanted to come in um can you i mean can it you can't all put 100k in each right
12:24it's got to be 100k you all put 100 i mean five percent each at 100k
12:32now would you go 100k each at 80 percent i think you've introduced you've got to check whether or not
12:41we've oh we're interested in 100k each i think there's a bigger assumption on there okay
12:48how about this if the three of us was in yeah and we we put a third each at four percent each
12:54i'd like that what would what would you be offering for the four percent 100 000 between
12:58the three of us no we already had five he offered at five didn't he so don't so i'm just saying
13:04if you want this is the messiest set of negotiations i think i've ever heard but i think you need to
13:10kind of give i mean if you don't if you do 100 at five do what at five sorry 100 kh for five
13:15percent each no well i'm not you know you've already no at the moment i think if you wanted
13:21three three dragons that could be game changing yeah i think if there's three three dragons in
13:28personally i think that the offer should be five percent each for 33 and a third so we would give
13:36thirty three thousand three hundred yeah and thirty each
13:42would you go i'll say five percent each for 50k so i'd give up fifteen percent you each put in 50k
13:50150k total
13:58i'd be happy with that yeah i'd be happy with that i'd go with that if okay the other dragons are
14:02happy yeah yep yeah done okay it's fantastic uh thank you thank you thank you very much
14:08great to meet you success for sam well done lovely thank you well done yeah right as three dragons
14:18seize the chance to invest not just in pepper but in the brains behind it thank you see later backing
14:25the business as a whole means they've bagged front row seats for the next cutting-edge creations this
14:31inventive entrepreneur has in store that was uh that was excellent yeah really pleased with that
14:38for me goodness knows what else he's working on yeah that's i think that's the point that's the
14:42clever thing yeah having three dragons involved is going to be really really helpful the fact
14:47they're so enthusiastic about it was just it was just brilliant yeah
15:04hi i'm abby i'm born and bred in london and i'm liha i'm a country girl from cheltenham
15:10we met at university over 20 years ago and we always wanted to start a business together and that's how
15:15we bonded being in business with a friend it is challenging it is like a marriage like whenever
15:22we say partner and people always like oh is it your partner partner and we're like no
15:27or they think we're sisters yeah which we basically are at this point yeah i'm incredibly nervous
15:35i think i got all my nerves out because i had a little meltdown earlier yes you did i had a small
15:39cry i cry a lot oh my god we've got this we've got this i feel like ready just want to get it done
15:45now yeah i'm the same
15:56hi dragons hi dragons i'm liha okiniwa and i'm abby aya pitton we're the founders of liha beauty
16:04we make superior body care products that are a blend of african botanicals and english aromatherapy
16:10us vogue described us as bottling africa's best kept beauty secret and our celebrity fans include
16:17lenny kravitz fk twigs and zarina akka's beyonce stylist we're asking for a hundred thousand pounds
16:26in exchange for ten percent of our business we started in our kitchens with just three thousand
16:32pounds of savings each and we're now stocked in sephora we've also been stocked in net-a-porter
16:40goop space nk among others and our cumulative revenue is nine hundred thousand pounds
16:46so liha and i met in 1998 at university liha and i would tinker with making wine products and really
16:53bonded over the fact that we love natural skincare and wanted products that were natural
16:58sustainable and felt and smelt luxurious we look young for our age and people would always ask
17:03what do you use and you'll say shea butter black soap and no one knew what it was so we are here to
17:09introduce the world to african beauty secrets and with that said we would love for you to try our products
17:18a body care and beauty range containing raw ingredients
17:22sourced from africa is the offering from abby oyepitan and liha okaniwa so this is our raw shea butter
17:32you say your university in 1998 yeah yeah we're 44. i need some of this stuff
17:39the fresh-faced pair are seeking 100 000 pounds in return for a 10 share in their business
17:46so what have we got here so you've got our edan oil which is called pressed coconut oil infusion
17:53tube rose and then you've got our cold candle and it's a fusion of different essential oils
18:00the entrepreneurs may put their youthful looks down to their beauty regime
18:05but will they still be glowing after a grilling from the dragons
18:09abby yeah abby leah so you've had some fantastic exposure i mean you've got some really big
18:18followers here yeah how did that happen we're really lucky yeah it's been quite organic really
18:24mouth yeah um i think um one of our first piece was in u.s vogue um and so from there we got a bill
18:33of attraction in america and just some celebrities loved it um so yeah that's amazing yeah and what
18:39about the actual because i'm guessing that the real your real usp apart from the fact it does look
18:45lovely you've created a lovely brain but it's actually the ingredients so where are you getting
18:51your raw materials from so the wall shows for my dad's town in ogun state in nigeria and then we
18:57work with a cooperative from up north in tamalee in um ghana oh right so genuinely they're from
19:03africa they're from africa over here yeah um and and what's rather nice about that is you've got
19:09connection with it yeah yeah father's town so this has got real heart yeah thank you so abby leah
19:17so when did you started the business 2018 2018 and do you mind just running me through your kind of
19:24performance over the last few years yes so um in 2020 we did 152 000 gross profits 26 000 and 114 loss
19:38yep 21 so 21 277 uh 101 and a net profit or loss of 65 000 a profit a loss loss a loss of 65 and in
19:5020 22 218. yep uh grace of 94. yep a loss of 126. yep in uh 2023 109 and loss of 120. what was the
20:08growth what was the growth 49. and how and how are you performing so far this year are you run
20:14yeah we're projecting to make 270 000. so are you projecting being profitable
20:18no not quite not quite not quite so about 90 000 loss okay thank you abby and liha um it's very clear
20:28that you've created some beautiful products um i put the cream on my hands have never been this soft
20:34oh thank you so much absolutely beautiful product um until you go through your numbers i know i go oh it's
20:41just oh please not don't tell me so what's really going on there the margin it's obviously a margin
20:49issue here yeah how do we how could we change that what needs to be done to get to get a really a much
20:55better margin yeah because your gross margin looks around 40 percent yeah it's about 45 percent yeah so
21:01as you all know so manufacturers really penalize you for not being able to order like all the units
21:07at a massive scale so we're all doing about 1 000 to 2 000 units at the moment so when we start
21:12doing 100 000 units we'll we'll benefit from those economies of scale the retailers as well take a
21:18big chunk of your margin um and that's why we really want to pivot to like a d2c brand yeah it feels
21:25like at the moment your margin's not there for retail at all yeah i think well this is a lesson we've
21:30learned abby and lia yeah hi so what was your challenges in retail just the marketing they
21:37expect you to spend money on marketing oh yeah yeah and so we just didn't have it we just didn't
21:43have the money you know the funny thing today is um you don't have to spend a lot of money you need
21:49content yeah yeah content content is king you'll put on tiktok steve is much more better than that than
21:55me yeah yeah yeah we've heard he's a marketing genius yeah yeah and now finish please i'd stroke
22:02your ego yeah um but yeah those you know we're we're not experts at that we know how to make beautiful
22:09amazing uh efficacious products um and that's why we've had like some cult followings but we haven't
22:14been able to really kind of push that forward i would say i what we would love to do with the investment
22:21is to really get some expertise on the digital ads and the targeting yeah and also just like
22:26getting you know more marketing whether it is the digital marketing or traditional marketing
22:31okay uh it's it's really really difficult it's really difficult because um it kind of sounds like
22:39you're trying to employ me oh really yeah because you're saying we need help with the marketing and we
22:44need to and that's slightly different from being an investor it sounds like i'm i'm being offered a job as
22:49your cmo or your market oh no no in this particular case it's not just the 100k cash it's also quite
22:56a lot of support on both improving the margin but also finding innovation in the marketing strategy yeah
23:03okay i get you have you got have you got a a killer strategy or something that you're thinking about
23:11that will fundamentally change the outlook of this business because it can't really go on as it's been in
23:16the past let me answer that one okay so the shea butter as peter said that's the softest his hands
23:25have ever been yeah but his hands are this guy he's got some of the roughest hands ever well but now
23:32they're soft you see that's what we're doing making people glow i just think it only takes a couple of
23:38things you know to go viral and you know and we are we just need that little tipping bit we just need
23:44to get it really out there
23:48abby and liha um this is really really challenging and very difficult
23:53um the product is fantastic there's no doubt about it the ongoing losses and the losses that
23:58you've lost half a million pounds to date yeah you are going to lose another 90 to 100 000
24:04this current year forecasted when and that's why you need this hundred thousand so the minute an
24:09investment goes in it's just going to dissipate like an alka-seltzer in a swimming pool
24:14so for that reason sadly i'm going to say that i'm out thank you guys um i think you guys are great
24:23you know but i think showing the losses the way you're going you're not going to attract a lot of
24:29investment no i see that unfortunately yeah yeah today it's not investment for me and i'm out okay
24:34no that's fine
24:40i believe yes um i really want to invest but there's a but no it's fine i don't want to say it
24:51but seriously the numbers are really not good and actually my worry is that a hundred thousand
24:57pound investment isn't even going to do it for you so um oh i love what you're doing but i'm afraid
25:03as an investment it's just not working for me so thank you for bringing in it's beautiful i'm out
25:12i'll be in liha yeah hi um the product seems lovely thank you but it's not the product we're
25:19investing in it's the business and the entrepreneurs and the numbers tell a story yeah yeah and they don't
25:25tell a great story yeah yeah we did you know so i'm really sorry i'm going to take this home and
25:30give this a go and hopefully be a customer who might be able to give you a raving review okay but
25:36it just doesn't feel like a business investment today so thank you so much and wish you all the best
25:39and see if you can see a bit of that language
25:46stephen i um yeah i think i think you guys are both i think you're you're great i think you've got
25:51so much unbelievable potential thank you but you know you've said to me that you're kind of waiting
25:56for this takeoff moment this viral moment and as i look at this product i just can't see how that happens
26:02because i think for for it to go viral you really need some kind of innovation somewhere
26:10because that's where that's where the reality comes from because what happens is people go
26:14oh my god have you seen this i'm going to share it with my friend i'm going to put out my story i'm
26:17going to put it in the whatsapp chat and i when i look at this i go what is that story
26:21can you tell me what the story is here that might go go viral it's like anything the bomb
26:26cream goes by or somebody uses the bum bum cream what does the bum bum cream do it's
26:31moisturizing cream that goes on your bum okay so there's there's a storyline there yeah i think
26:37the thing is when you have um it only takes somebody to pick up an oil whatever you want to
26:43talk call it and somebody loves it and they do a story about it goes well and people pick it up
26:48and you only need to get six numbers right to win the lottery yeah you know but it happens but
26:53it happens it happens would you bet a hundred thousand pounds on winning the lottery next week
26:59potentially not because i don't have a hundred thousand yeah but even i wouldn't either because
27:03the odds are terrible and it's the same thing in that case where you're betting on total chance
27:09you want to bet on predictability i can't bet on the lottery okay yeah yeah and i would bet on you
27:16i think i would use this but when it comes to a business proposition with the margins and the
27:20the lack of a breakthrough story it's not one for me so i'm going to say that i'm out
27:27but i wish you the very best and well thank you so much thank you thank you thank you bye
27:34disappointment for abby and liha as poor profits laid bare the flaws in their beauty business
27:41and they leave without a deal was it terrible and it wasn't so bad they all really liked it
27:50hands still nice and soft peter softer the baby's bottom look i think the drag has missed an opportunity
27:56and i think we're going to be the heritage brand of the future so we're not going to give up we're
28:00going to keep going quite positive they love the products they love us and we just have to yeah keep
28:06going and learn from our mistakes
28:25my name is bethan hickson and i live in southeast london and i'm alice schools webby and i also live
28:31in southeast london living around the corner from each other is quite useful when running a startup
28:38hair looks good we've become like incredibly close friends throughout the process yeah yeah we have our
28:45final meeting often on the bus home together investment today would would mean a huge amount and it's
28:53not it's not just about the money we're really looking for expertise and insights from these dragons
28:58and it would transform the business so yeah so much riding on it
29:13hi dragons my name is bethan and i am the founder of mother root and i'm alice the coo
29:19and we are here today to ask for 60 000 pounds in return for two percent of the business
29:25it's official life is busier than ever and sharing a moment with friends over a good drink can feel
29:32like a special moment of balance but drinking alcohol just isn't working for you like it used
29:37to but you still want to find a way to switch off and unwind the problem is finding a drink that
29:43doesn't feel like a substitute a strong drink just minus the alcohol because that should feel like a treat
29:49too i created mother root when i was pregnant and chasing around after a toddler having spent my
29:56career in the wine and spirits trade delicious drinks that packed a punch was something i really
30:01missed for the 30 million uk adults now actively moderating their alcohol intake mother root is the
30:08fiery ginger flavored non-alcoholic aperitif that has acquired 23 000 new customers in the last six months
30:16alone we've seen incredible scaling demand and this year became amazon's number one non-alcoholic bestseller
30:23in the uk we've grown over 400 year on year and are on track to reach 2.2 million pounds of turnover
30:31this year would you like to try another route absolutely a non-alcoholic ginger flavored aperitif
30:41is the serving from bethen higson and alice goldsworthy thank you very much the duo are hoping for an
30:49investment of 60 000 pounds in return for a two percent share of their business excuse me
30:57excuse me that's really good the marmalade one oh i'm glad you like it stealing my drinks thank you so
31:02much now i'm going to try this raw yeah it's strong a little goes a long way
31:14a neat shot leaves stephen bartlett a little shaken but will his interest in the business have been
31:20stirred alice bethen um hi i completely get it because i i quit drinking alcohol so every time i go to a
31:32restaurant every time i go out yeah the the battle with a waiter to figure out if they have kombucha
31:37or if they can do some kind of other drink so i completely get it um how old is this business
31:43the first full year of trading was 2019 so it's 20 years so could you run me through the financial
31:49performance of the business in terms of the the last sort of couple of years just so i can see the
31:53growth profile of the business yeah so we're currently we're on track to do 2.2 million this year
32:00and a loss of 114 000 and in 2022 we did a turnover of 247 000 and a net of minus 408 000
32:14and minus 408 408 408 408 000 loss loss loss then in 2023 we did a um turnover of 525 000 and a loss of
32:29249 000 and we are forecasting profitability this time next year can i ask how are you funding the
32:38losses at the moment so we have raised a total now so this we're currently raising so taking that also
32:46into account we've raised a total of 1.1 million so far sorry just to be clear there so you've raised
32:511.1 million so far or you're or this round as well as part of that one one no total today is 1.1 and of
32:58the current uh round we have raised at 600 000 and what valuation have you raised that up that was an
33:058 million pre-money valuation so yeah bethen alice hi so talk talk me through the 600 000 that you've
33:17raised so far at the 8 million valuation yeah where is that come from um that has come from existing
33:23shareholders reinvesting but also some industry experts coming in angels um who have expertise
33:30within the drink space so one is ex diageo um for example so there's a lot of belief behind
33:36your brand and a lot of people in the industry have followed you i think it's a really exciting
33:40space within the drinks industry it's the fastest growing category within the adult beverage sector
33:45and alcohol is kind of stagnating um and it's not just a trend it is a complete shift of consumer
33:52behavior so there's just that momentum that's building
33:54so assuming i invest today when do i get a return well we believe that within four years
34:03you would be getting back at least 10 times your investment um we know that the big multinational
34:11alcohol companies are particularly interested in this space about 90 of the acquisitions happen
34:17by the big 12 multinational companies and just this year a british spirits brand was acquired
34:23for 12 times their net sales and they were loss making still at that point so and what what was
34:31that brand uh lakes distillery oh they're up near me yeah yeah another guy who owned that yeah well
34:38good business good business yeah he's done well so bethan alice hi hi um so um i don't drink alcohol
34:48alcohol except about once a year when peter makes me and i cannot tell you you have described me you
34:55know every time i go to water myself a drink i'm like oh do you know what i'll just have water yeah so
35:01i really love this and i love the taste of this i mean i actually drink a lot of kombucha slightly
35:07different this has got more flex you're doing it again excuse me one second
35:10take your eye off her for 30 seconds um so let's explore what's your next biggest opportunity
35:20yeah so we're 95 d2c currently but we know that retail is really lacking interesting products out
35:30there often they're kind of imitations of the um leading spirit so kind of naught percent line
35:36extensions from the big brands like tankery gordon's so for us the next big move is going chipping
35:43away more into independent retail and then finally into grocery and then beyond that into export okay
35:51and um this is i mean what do you call it a switchel a switchel which is rather charming um
35:59um are there other switchels out there on the supermarket shelves at the moment no no this is
36:06very much uh white space that we're operating in right okay
36:20it's a good sign when it goes quiet it's a good sign
36:23i think how much of the business do you still own after this current at this point in the current raise
36:32i own 70 of the business because i'm conscious of the fact that you are already offering
36:39in the den at a much lower rate than what you are raising at currently yeah we spoke to them ahead and
36:46they recognize that this could be a really a big step change for the business in terms of
36:53getting a dragon on board for where we want to go next it leaves a kind of done well i'll tell you
36:59why the reason for my silence i think i think it's fantastic and i think you have spotted um a real
37:05opportunity and you fulfilled it in a in a very lovely way i mean it is a lovely product um i think without
37:13your other investors and ignoring the valuation that they came came in at what i'm grappling with
37:19is i'd like to make you an offer but it's got to be an offer that is feasible so you've got your
37:25investors over here who have invested at eight million which if you'd just given me these numbers
37:30and presented in the den i would i would think nowhere near nowhere near eight million so i'm trying
37:37to bridge the gap between i'd love to get involved in this business but not at the two percent right
37:47so i am going to make you an offer and i'm going to offer you all of the money
37:53and i want four percent of the business thank you deborah thank you you know deb deborah perfectly
38:00articulated everything that i was struggling to get out about i've sat here for a long time
38:07thinking i thought your valuation was high based on where your numbers are but you've got these
38:11other investors sitting here at a different valuation and what i'd actually written down was
38:16i was prepared to offer the money you were asking for five percent knowing that i'd probably have to
38:21negotiate to somewhere around the three and a half to four percent but i wouldn't feel comfortable going
38:25any lower than that okay that is like the word is genuinely the worst negotiation do you know what
38:33i'm offering you five percent but i'm willing to go to three i never said three i said my lowest level
38:39negotiating that i would drop two would be three and a half right now not a half okay that's me trying
38:44to negotiate thank you thank you she looks like someone that would do it for three alice bethen um
38:52i think you look i think you've done really really well i think this business will work no question
38:58but what's on offer here is just not interesting enough i'm going to end up with less than one
39:03percent of this enterprise in the next few years so no i'm sorry but for me it's not there so i'm going
39:09to say that i'm out thank you alice bethen um i love it i love you two i've been looking for it
39:21i've been looking for you and here you are um i own two performance marketing companies one called
39:26metastat one called flight performance and metastat is particularly good with this um type
39:31of business at this size so they've taken one dragon's den investment i made two years ago in
39:35the beverage space which by the way we got into waitrose last week had all the buyers at my house
39:40but also i've got some friends who run a lot of the very interesting beverage companies in this country
39:45like huel and grenade and the brew dogs of the world who i think could really give you a road
39:50map how to scale a dc business in this space profitably it's gonna make you an offer i'm gonna
39:55offer you all of the money and i'm gonna ask for five percent of business oh thank you i say that
40:01because daylight robbery oh as he was saying get out of bed for one percent office space in a minute
40:07just wait he's that his name dropped so many names now yeah i'm name dropping nobody he doesn't know
40:14anybody i've got 50 years experience more than you'll ever have so let's not even 50 years old 50 years
40:21experience in business you've got five years yeah 50 years wow so so let's get my bigger perspective
40:27i've got more experience on one little finger than you've got a lot of 50 years let's focus on the
40:31entrepreneurs no i'm just saying easily triggered guys guys you know something i uh i think you've
40:37got some great offers but i'm not gonna do for two percent that's the problem you've got much more
40:44hungry people on my left here make an offer then if you don't like two percent
40:57smoky over there a little grasshopper over there a little smoky over there dragons anyway kittens
41:03or dragons i'll tell you what i'll do i'll let them make the offer so i'm not going to invest today
41:08thank you so for that reason i'm out thank you thank you so much
41:14do you want to go think about it though okay have a chat thanks
41:19oh my gosh alice and bethan have three competing bids to consider this outcome
41:25i don't know steven bartlett wants five percent what's your gut saying i don't know
41:33as does sarah davies but she's shown a willingness to drop to three and a half
41:38if pressed whilst deborah meaden is offering a straight four percent
41:45i'd love to have them all because actually they're my top three favorites but i don't know how that works
41:49how ever all the offers are over the two percent that was originally on the table
41:56i think we go at one will the entrepreneur's existing share structure leave any room for negotiations
42:08you think we would have prepared for that kind of situation but uh
42:11uh we didn't so that being said based on the office that are on the table and the expertise
42:18given that we are dc we would
42:22love to ask whether you steven would consider coming down to four percent for all of the money
42:30i've got a counter offer for you as a show of my willingness to get a deal done i'll increase the cash
42:37component to 80k for five percent that makes it easier for you because that helps the valuation a little bit
42:47if you were to come to 90 000 pounds for five percent then you have a deal
42:53time
43:04success for the drinks duo
43:09as they secure a cocktail of cash and clout from a dragon who can launch their business
43:15...into the stratosphere.
43:17You were so good. You were so good.
43:21Oh, my God.
43:23Oh, what a woman.
43:25Oh, just, oh, my God.
43:27Completely overwhelmed, but amazing.
43:29Yeah, so happy. Happy we got Stephen.
43:32Definitely.
43:33Do you know what? You made more promises there
43:36than any political party leading up to an election.
43:39You bottled it. You'll be working for them next.
43:45Hi, I'm Phil, and I'm from Bournemouth.
44:02Anyone who knows me knows I am a bit of a serial inventor.
44:05Every week I'm coming up with another idea
44:07for some sort of business or product.
44:10What does it say it is?
44:12It says it's shoe deodoriser.
44:14If this is a way to stop your boots being smelly,
44:17I just need all of those in my life right now
44:19because my kids' feet stink.
44:24Feeling a little bit nervous today,
44:25but I'm sure once I get going, the nerves will disappear.
44:30My little boys are definitely my biggest motivators.
44:32I want to try and make the brand of success as quickly as possible
44:35so I can prioritize them instead of business.
44:40Let's do this.
44:49Hi there.
44:50I'm Phil, and I'm co-founder.
44:52I'm Phil co-founder of Boot Bananas, and I'm here today seeking a £200,000 investment in exchange for 8% equity in our unique sustainable shoe care accessories brand.
45:11Boot Bananas was founded in 2012 by my wife Alex and myself with the creation of our flagship product Boot Bananas original shoe deodorisers.
45:20Now, this really was an invention of necessity.
45:25You see, at the time I started working as a rock climbing instructor,
45:28my dream job that unfortunately came with a nightmare of a smell.
45:32The stench from one particularly pungent pair of my rock climbing shoes was starting to take over our flat,
45:38so we decided to fight the funk ourselves.
45:41I perfected a blend of salts, minerals and plant extracts that worked miracles and remove the smell,
45:48and Alex came up with a brilliant banana design idea.
45:52And in the first year, we sold almost 4,000 pairs to rock climbing gyms up and down the country.
45:57And over the years, I have sold to retailers such as Go Outdoors, Cotswolds, Ellis Brighams,
46:04as well as, of course, developing sales direct-to-consumer and marketplaces.
46:09Last year, I turned over 1.37 million with a £220,000 net profit.
46:16And I believe we could become a major market disruptor in the $4 billion shoe care accessories market.
46:31A banana-shaped deodoriser is the solution to smelly footwear from Phil Osband.
46:37Hello, sir. There's one of our flagship products there for you.
46:40I knew I would drop those.
46:43Phil is seeking £200,000 in return for 8% of his business.
46:48They're not edible. They're not real. No, no, please do not even.
46:52First to see if the dragons are bananas about Phil's product is Deborah Meaden.
46:57Phil, thank you very much. Well done. You got through it.
47:03The good news is this is about as clear, it's as obvious I love this kind of product.
47:07Thanks.
47:08Food banana shoe deodorisers.
47:10Yes, the flagship product you've got there is for extreme odours and helps with a bit of sweat.
47:15Can I put this in the washing machine?
47:18No.
47:19So this has to last me...
47:20Six to 12 months on average.
47:22Now, it does depend how bad the shoes are, how sweaty they get.
47:27So in an extreme case, a shoe that absolutely stinks, if I put this in Peter Jones' shoe, how long will that last me?
47:3312 months and six months in yours.
47:35To be honest, the shoe's not the person, so it's fine.
47:40What are your sales channels by percentage?
47:43It's roughly 60% retail, 40% direct to consumer.
47:49How much have you spent on online marketing?
47:51Very minimum, like...
47:52How much?
47:53£700 a month.
47:56I've done one Facebook post, which is a photo of the product in some football boots.
48:00And we've targeted that Facebook ads to football.
48:03And we've got 1,300 comments on that post.
48:07And the sales that that post drove to your website, presumably?
48:12I mean, I know it's driven sales, 100%.
48:15It's definitely driven sales.
48:17I don't have that data to hand.
48:20Phil, you've been going for 12 years.
48:26Long time.
48:28It is, yes.
48:30And after 12 years, you've turned over 1.37 million.
48:34Now, in my world, that would not be a great achievement.
48:40No.
48:42However, you've made a profit, which says to me that it's a good business.
48:47Matured business.
48:49I've made all the mistakes already, so you're coming in at the perfect time.
48:53At a stupid valuation.
48:5712 times earnings, which is...
49:01Oh, I valued on turnover.
49:04Yeah, but if every company valued on turnover...
49:07Yeah.
49:08..the world would be a very rich place.
49:10Yeah, I know.
49:11So, you've proven you can make a profit.
49:13Yes.
49:14Right.
49:15So, what will the turnover be next year?
49:18Sorry, next year is 2 to 3 million.
49:21So, how are you going to do that?
49:23Sorry, I'm on track to doing that already.
49:27As I mentioned in that ad post, I know it's not huge, but the product literally sells itself.
49:33Those conversations are happening in real life, in the football community, around the five-a-side football pitch, after school, at the clubs.
49:40And every time you take the product and you seed it, you only have to take it into a few places in that market, and it starts to spread from there.
49:49It literally sells itself.
49:50Have you seen those bananas that go in your shoes?
49:52Phil, Phil.
49:53Phil, you've got...
49:54There's a lot going on here.
49:55Yeah.
49:56But I can't...
49:57You can't detract away from...
50:00The valuation of this business is basically...
50:05It is basically your business.
50:07It's complete bananas.
50:08No, no.
50:09So, like, last year, the profit wasn't as high as maybe it could have been.
50:12No, but over the last 10 years, how much money have you made selling this product, net?
50:17There's not a net profit.
50:19There's been a...
50:21So, that's why I go back to...
50:23I don't know how you can value this.
50:24Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait.
50:25I can work that.
50:2640, 30.
50:27Wait, wait.
50:28I've got this.
50:2940, 30.
50:3070, 90, 100, 120.
50:34Around £130,000 of losses to £320,000 of profit.
50:40Can someone do the maths?
50:41I'm not really...
50:42200,000?
50:43There we go.
50:44It's not coming across great.
50:47I know, I know.
50:48I would say this is not...
50:51The potential I'm not selling is in the past.
50:52The potential I'm selling is in the future.
50:54But give me a vision of that.
50:55OK.
50:56Genuinely, I think we could be turning over £100 million.
50:59I think £30 million I could probably do on my own.
51:03I think £50 million with investment and assistance is very, very...
51:09So, you could take this to £30 million in sales?
51:11I reckon I could myself, yes.
51:16Phil, after 12 years, you've done a million.
51:20But how on earth are you going to get this to £100 million?
51:23I'm just trying to, in my head, thinking out...
51:26£100 million?
51:27You seed it into the communities and the sales happen in the locker room.
51:31Right, golf, football, rugby, ice hockey...
51:34Do you know...
51:35But...
51:36The NHL...
51:37Phil, Phil, Phil.
51:38Shoe shops.
51:39I've not sold in a single shoe shop.
51:40You're right, you're right.
51:41However, I think you'll struggle with this.
51:44You'll get to a point, £2, £3, £4 million, and you'll stagnate, in my view.
51:49And for that reason, I'm out.
51:55Phil.
51:56Sorry?
51:57The product, I think, is brilliant.
52:00But it's not the product we invest in.
52:02It's the entrepreneur.
52:03Yes.
52:04Yeah.
52:05And what I'm really struggling with is...
52:07Most of the communication has been this way coming.
52:11Yeah.
52:12And it needs to go this way.
52:13I am listening, I promise.
52:15I sit here thinking, I just...
52:17I couldn't enjoy being on that journey with you, as great as the product is.
52:21So, I'm really sorry, Phil.
52:23I can't invest today, and I'm out.
52:26I understand.
52:30On the one hand, well done.
52:32I think...
52:33Clearly, you've got a great business.
52:36I'm not convinced you need investment.
52:38I think you aren't.
52:39I mean, you just said you think you can get yourself to £30 million without an investor.
52:43That will be a literal mountain to climb.
52:45Yeah.
52:46And I think I'd have a lot more fun doing it with you guys,
52:48and doing it a lot faster and a lot bigger.
52:50OK.
52:51I don't think you would have a lot of fun doing it with me.
52:54Oh.
52:55Well, no.
52:57You need to be quiet just for a second.
53:00So, lovely product.
53:03You are going to make money out of this.
53:05You could make a lot more money if you had an investor on board.
53:09Yes.
53:10But I'm afraid this ain't going to work.
53:15Have you seen our home compostable product?
53:17Only home compostable insert on the market.
53:19You can't just get investment by not allowing any of the dragons to say I'm out.
53:22Sorry.
53:23That isn't going to work.
53:24OK.
53:25So, I'm afraid, Phil, I won't be investing.
53:26Oh.
53:27I'm out.
53:31Phil.
53:32It's really interesting because, you know, once in a while a business walks into the den where I can so clearly see the opportunity, but also I can see the journey from where that business is now to where they can be strategically.
53:49And what you described here is you have what I call an aha business, where if you exhibit the value proposition of this product, within five or ten seconds someone goes, aha, I need that.
54:01But you've not been able to create that aha moment because you're terrible at marketing.
54:05I've got a lot of ideas, but I'm very bad at bringing them together in, like, local companies.
54:09Let me just riff.
54:10Sorry.
54:11I'm going to riff.
54:12Because I really want to make sure I land the point here.
54:14You have an aha business, which means that if you can demonstrate this product within five, ten seconds, people go, oh, my God, I need that.
54:21And the battleground to do that, in my opinion, is social media.
54:27Yes.
54:28If you're able to convert that ten-second aha to social media at scale, then your business will go from the 1.3 to the 100 million over the next five, six, seven years.
54:38And it will sell itself.
54:40Yeah.
54:41It's a lot of work.
54:42Yeah.
54:43It's a lot of work.
54:44Yeah.
54:45But I believe.
54:51So I'm going to make you an offer.
54:54I'm going to offer you all of the money for 33% of the business, and I assume a ton of responsibility.
55:08Understood.
55:09Brilliant.
55:10It's a lovely offer.
55:11Thank you very much.
55:21What do you specifically want?
55:24For me, honestly, I want to spend less time doing the things I'm not very good at, micromanaging the business, so I have more time for my family.
55:40How big is your family?
55:42Sorry.
55:43Two...
55:44Two little boys and my wife, Alex.
55:49And our dog.
55:54What do you want to do for them?
55:59I'd be there for them.
56:01It's like...
56:02They grow up.
56:04Sorry.
56:05It's okay.
56:06I'm sure they'll be very proud of you, without a doubt.
56:25And Phil, I'd like to help them be proud too.
56:28Okay.
56:29And I'd like to help you, because I think I can help you focus, I can help you scale it.
56:34And I'm going to make you an offer, and it's going to mirror Stephen's offer, because I think that's really fair.
56:41So I'm going to offer you all of the money, £200,000, for a third of the business.
56:52The obvious question I've got is, you two have both brilliant things to the table.
56:59Would you consider a share of the deal?
57:02I would 100%, without a doubt, I think you'd get the benefit of two very different skill sets that could make this into some Goliath business.
57:16Mm-hmm.
57:17I agree.
57:18I agree.
57:19Would you be happy to do that 16% each?
57:22Yeah.
57:23Yeah.
57:24Yeah, we would be.
57:2516% each, for £100,000 each.
57:26Yes.
57:27Yes.
57:28You've got a deal.
57:29Well done, mate.
57:32Elation for Phil, as he gets to experience the sweet smell of success.
57:42He leaves the den with £200,000 in his company coffers, and two dragons in his boardroom.
57:48I'm so delighted and relieved to have got investment from the Dragons.
57:52I'm very happy to see that the Dragons could see the real potential in the brand, despite some of my own personal pitfalls.
57:59It is the next biggest thing.
58:02And we'll see.
58:03We'll see.
58:04Tuka's not convinced.
58:05We'll see.
58:06We'll have big bananas and small bananas.
58:08All of the bananas.
58:09Small bananas for your feet and big ones for mine.
58:11Next time, a special guest returns.
58:26Barlet, come on.
58:27Give him a chance.
58:28Don't talk yourself out of it.
58:29No, behave.
58:30Well, she doesn't bite Deborah there.
58:32How are you going to get out of this mess?
58:34I call.
58:35I call.
58:37You all right?
58:41It's subscribe!
58:42It's ass.
58:43Yeah.
58:44It is.
59:04That's a great idea.
59:05The way it's over here.
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