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Dragons Den UK S23E05

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00:02the doors to the den are open for business a place where fortunes are made and futures are forged
00:11but this time the game has changed a fresh wave of fierce investors are out to shake things up
00:19and steal the deals tonight i'm jenny meek i'm a serial entrepreneur i'm currently the
00:27co-founder and ceo of refi beauty jenna welcome back to the den no thank you for having me back
00:33i'm excited for the day when i look into the eyes of an entrepreneur there is literally one thing i'm
00:38looking for it's their belief that their idea is going to succeed i can see in people's eyes if
00:43they're lying to me i know exactly what i can bring to a business so if there's a fight for
00:47an
00:47investment i will be absolutely fighting for it i love disagreeing with the dragons i really really
00:52do i am not scared of any of the dragons if anything they should be scared of me
01:08i'm zahira my business is called hattie i want to start a movement of human connection
01:14and my pitch starts in quite a unique way i'm just trying to throw the dragons a little bit
01:22off kilter
01:26okay absolutely no idea zero idea i'm stuck there's something a bit eerie about it there is something a
01:35bit eerie
01:40my perfect match in a dragon for my business would be stephen he understands like the millennium
01:46generation the gen z generation can really get us front and center
01:51so
02:01so
02:19Hello, dragons. I'm Zee, and I'm the founder of Hattie.
02:23We are gathered here today to finally lay to rest traditional dating apps.
02:28Because for those of us, like myself, who are in such a real human connection,
02:33they've wasted enough of our time.
02:35Now, before I tell you any more, I wanted to give you a quick question.
02:40I can either continue to pitch this to you myself,
02:43or I can put the rest of the pitch up on the screen behind me,
02:46lay in this coffin, and allow you to read it.
02:48The choice is yours.
02:50I'd say get in the coffin.
02:51I'd say get in the coffin.
02:53You should never ask that of a dragon.
02:55We're all going to say get in the coffin.
02:56OK, I'm really going to need you to let me pitch this to you, please,
02:59rather than just reading the screen.
03:00You're all right. Go on.
03:01No, we'd love to hear from you instead.
03:03It would have been really awkward if you actually wanted me to get in the coffin.
03:06Because let's face it, you'd never make a business decision over text alone.
03:10So why are we dating that way?
03:1280% of users of traditional dating apps are emotionally burnt out by them.
03:16And I should know, because I'm one of them.
03:19After deleting them for what felt like the hundredth time,
03:21I hit my absolute breaking point.
03:23And from the ashes of my absolute despair at that point, Hattie was born.
03:28The online dating industry is potentially worth over $9 billion.
03:32And yet today, only 15% to 20% of matches ever turn into a two-way conversation.
03:38On Hattie, we're completely flipping the script.
03:41Instead, every single match will turn into a five-minute scheduled voice or video call.
03:46So once you connect, there's no messaging, there's no dialing in, there's no scheduling.
03:50The app automatically does it for you.
03:52There's no exchanging numbers.
03:54The app calls you both at the right time and connects you.
03:57After the call, you choose.
03:59You can speak to that person again or end the match forever.
04:03We launched on the 14th of February, we made revenue in 10 days,
04:06and we've already grown to over 5,000 downloads.
04:09Today, I'm offering you the opportunity to invest £150,000 for 5% of a business
04:15that will become the next unicorn.
04:18Dragons, this isn't just an investment in an app.
04:20It's an investment in re-humanising the way that we find love.
04:23Are you in?
04:25You're going to have to wait to find out.
04:28I was really hoping you were just going to go straight to yes.
04:34Looking to spark a connection with a dragon
04:37is online romance revolutionary Zaheera
04:41and her next-generation dating app.
04:44The entrepreneur is seeking £150,000
04:47for a 5% share in her business.
04:52First to lean in with a question is Deborah Meaden.
05:00So, I'm sorry, I didn't catch your name.
05:02Did you say?
05:03Zee.
05:03Zee.
05:04Well, my full name is Zaheera, but everyone calls me Zee.
05:06Zaheera, that's lovely.
05:07Zee.
05:08OK, so, I mean, the idea sounds great.
05:12Just explain where you are with the business at the moment.
05:15What's your revenue model and how much money have you made to date?
05:18I'm assuming you mean February the 14th, this year you started.
05:21So, it is quite new.
05:23Brand new.
05:24And, like, my whole point with launching it
05:26was to prove that there is a different revenue model
05:28you can have against a dating app.
05:30So, some of the traditional ones
05:31took anywhere between two and five years to monetise.
05:34So, one of the ways we make revenue
05:36is through booking dates through the app.
05:38So, we get a commission for every date that's been booked.
05:41The other way is we've integrated with dating coaching
05:44and mental health,
05:45because my philosophy isn't just get people on better dates,
05:48it's actually make people better daters.
05:50So, we also get commission from any dating coaching
05:53that's been booked through the app,
05:54and then eventually we want to trial things
05:56like minimum subscription, so it's everyone,
05:58and it's not a lot, it's, like, £2.99 a month.
06:00Is that the longest version of you saying it's pre-revenue
06:03that I have ever heard in my life?
06:04So, we've only made about £48 of revenue so far.
06:07OK.
06:07Yeah.
06:08All of those words you gave were good and really interesting,
06:12but you're pre-revenue, really.
06:13Pre-revenue, yeah.
06:14OK, so, you've got 5,000 people signed up.
06:16How many of those are actually active users?
06:19So, it varies on the day.
06:20We've had about 17,500 likes sent.
06:23We've had 100 phone calls,
06:26but a lot of people have now run out of people
06:28to actually go on a date with.
06:29So, we largely grew through, like, organic TikTok.
06:32So, we had a couple of videos go massively viral,
06:35just me explaining the concept.
06:37Then you get users all over the country.
06:39You don't just get them in London, which is a real problem,
06:41because, really, this is hyper-localised, right?
06:43So, you want to launch in London and then scale it.
06:46So, yeah.
06:49Zee, I have a lot of experience in this industry.
06:52I've spent some time with the founder and CEO of Hinge.
06:56I've also spent some time with the CEO of Tinder,
06:58good friends with the CEO of Bumble.
07:01So, this is a very difficult challenge, right?
07:03And a lot of everything you've said about people's dismay
07:05and dissatisfaction with dating apps is so unbelievably true.
07:08I hear it all the time from everybody.
07:10I would just hate to be on the dating app circuit.
07:15And that video that went viral.
07:17Yeah.
07:17What were you saying in the video?
07:19Literally just me explaining the concept.
07:21And what part of it was resonant?
07:22I think, A, it's very novel, right?
07:25We've completely scrapped messaging.
07:27The app auto-shedules you a five-minute call with your date.
07:30So, I think there's a couple of things in the community aspect of it
07:34of, like, we will only accept people on there
07:36who are willing to actually get verified.
07:38And also, we have a ghosting penalty.
07:39So, if people don't turn up, they get banned from that.
07:42And I think that's resonating for a lot of reasons right now
07:45because the younger generation are demanding more,
07:47the Gen Z lot, who are like, no, we want human connection.
07:50Like, they want raw authenticity
07:53in a way that I don't think the traditional dating apps have.
07:56So, you're the anti-dating app.
07:59You've taken every feature that people hate
08:00about the traditional dating environment
08:02and basically, you're trying to do the opposite.
08:05So, there's a narrative there.
08:09Z, Z, you've come in with a three million valuation
08:13and a project that's been worked on for a few months.
08:16How can you justify that?
08:19So, part of the reason for that is I've got a letter of intent
08:22from an investor at four and a half million,
08:24but I completely recognise how much value
08:26you would all bring to the table.
08:28How much is that investor going to bring?
08:31150k.
08:32Yeah, I think you should have signed that and got that money.
08:36Then you wouldn't have needed to come here.
08:39I think this is still an incredible opportunity, though, right?
08:41Like, whether I walk out with money
08:43or the chance to just have interacted with all of you.
08:46No, I do, but I think you've come in with a valuation of three million
08:50and you're pre-revenue.
08:52You can't, for one minute, have thought
08:55that that wouldn't be fairly controversial.
08:59I agree. It is controversial.
09:01Yeah, so, what about you?
09:04What have you done from a business perspective?
09:06Because that would justify why.
09:08Have you done something from a business perspective before
09:11and made millions from a seed of an idea?
09:14No.
09:14So, where do you get the valuation
09:16and what's the reason and rationale for the valuation?
09:19Because it's quite punchy.
09:20I think, so, part of it is that
09:23what I'm looking for the 150 for
09:24is really to get to 100,000 users.
09:27And then assuming that 1% of our user base
09:29book a therapy session once a month,
09:32that's £25 for every therapy session that gets booked.
09:35So, that gives you £25k a month in revenue from that.
09:39We then get between £3 and £12 per date.
09:42And if you assume that 10% of our user base
09:46goes on one date,
09:47you make another, like, £50,000
09:49from just commission from that.
09:51So, for me, like, yes, the valuation is high,
09:54but I think, for me,
09:55there's a huge growth opportunity here
09:57and it's about looking at the future growth of the business.
10:01You see, I've never used a date app.
10:06And the numbers you're talking about,
10:08commissions, are in relation to where you're going.
10:11But it's very small.
10:13Get a percentage of a date.
10:17Get a percentage of therapy.
10:20That's not going to make...
10:22Those bits are not going to make the next unicorn.
10:27So, for that reason,
10:29I'm going to let you carry on with the other dregs.
10:31I'm out.
10:32Well, I really appreciate your time.
10:34Thanks, Tuka.
10:36Zee.
10:36Hi.
10:37Hi.
10:38This is a world to me that...
10:40I just don't understand tech.
10:43They talk about building an app at work
10:44and then they go, oh, it blows my mind.
10:47So, for that reason, I am out,
10:48but I wish you the best of luck.
10:50I appreciate it.
10:52And, Zee, I think this is a market that's clearly very overcrowded.
10:59It's not something that I would want to invest in.
11:02So, I'm going to say that I'm out.
11:04But it's not a reflection of you as an individual
11:07for the way you've presented.
11:11I absolutely echo that.
11:12You've presented really, really well.
11:14And I feel like anything that you came up with,
11:16you will find a way to make it successful.
11:19I have a bit of a worry for you.
11:22My worry is, you are working in a space
11:24where a lot of your competitors have to win.
11:28So, if you do find that magic combination
11:32that says, ah, that's where we earn our money,
11:35your competitors are in a situation
11:39where they can just say, oh, that's working.
11:41Okay, let's do it.
11:43That is a big risk for you.
11:46So, I'm really sorry, but I won't be investing.
11:48I'm out.
11:51See, this is a, I think this is a really
11:55perfect business for me
11:57because I'm particularly interested in community,
11:59loneliness, and how technology can solve that at scale.
12:08Putting like 150 grand bet on this at this point
12:16is just like too high of a budget
12:18bet to make.
12:20Can I convince you of one data point?
12:22What's that?
12:23Do you know Tim Ferriss?
12:24Yeah.
12:25So, Tim Ferriss went on the Modern Wisdom podcast
12:26last year, and he said,
12:28can someone just build a dating app
12:30where the sole purpose is a 10-minute voice
12:33or video call?
12:34We did five.
12:35That's just our thought process.
12:37But he is one of the best tech investors
12:40in Silicon Valley.
12:41I think even if you don't want to invest today,
12:43and I can completely understand why,
12:45what I would love is if you do know Tim Ferriss,
12:48an introduction to him and Simon Sinek,
12:50because Simon Sinek is actually
12:51one of my biggest inspirations for this,
12:53because he always talks about the eight-minute call.
13:06just give me a minute.
13:13It's a big problem.
13:16I understand the problem.
13:23I am going to make you an offer.
13:26However,
13:28if I'm investing £150,000
13:31in a business at this stage,
13:32which I consider to be,
13:34with all due respect, an idea,
13:38I consider myself basically
13:40a partner in the business.
13:42Um, okay, so
13:45you asked for
13:46£150,000
13:47for 5% of your business.
13:50I will make you an offer
13:51to give you
13:53all of the money
13:55for
14:0335% of the business.
14:06Vampire,
14:07as you would call me.
14:08I call everybody.
14:09But it's just,
14:09there's just no,
14:10I just can't see another way.
14:13Okay.
14:14Well, somebody just turned in their grave
14:15in their,
14:16in their box.
14:18Um,
14:19would you go down
14:20to 20%?
14:25No.
14:26I wouldn't.
14:2930?
14:3432 and a half,
14:35and we've got a deal.
14:37Come on, Stephen,
14:3830.
14:38Be a good, Stephen.
14:39Come on,
14:39come on, Stephen.
14:42Come on.
14:43Go on.
14:44I know, but it's...
14:45Even the dragons want you to do this.
14:47Come on.
14:49Oh, you're fine with that.
14:50Yay!
14:51Okay.
14:54Thank you so much.
14:57After a tense back and forth,
14:59Zaheera seals the deal.
15:01I'll see you soon.
15:04And with Stephen Bartlett now on board,
15:07her dating app just found its perfect match.
15:14It is one of the greatest opportunities that I've ever had in my life.
15:18I think it is utterly incredible that the dragon I want wanted me.
15:39I'm James Martin, and I'm from Harrogate in North Yorkshire.
15:42We wanted to create something where people could enjoy the great outdoors in a bit of luxury.
15:48It's called glawning.
15:50Which means?
15:51Glawning is a lawn, isn't it?
15:53I feel like it's glumping, but you buy the tent.
15:57Well, they're really readily available.
15:59We've got one of those.
16:00To be fair, it doesn't have the awning.
16:02The what?
16:03So the awning is the bit between the tent and the car.
16:06So that's an awning.
16:07Yeah, but it goes with glawning.
16:09It was completely lost on you, wasn't it, Stephen, when Peter said glawning?
16:12100% lost on me.
16:16I'm passionate about the business,
16:18and I've started to invent some new products.
16:20So this, I think, is a real exciting time
16:22and a great time for dragons to come on board.
16:32Hello, dragons.
16:34My name's James.
16:35And I'm here today seeking an investment of £60,000
16:39in return for a 10% share of my business, glawning.
16:43We aim to redefine what it means to go camping.
16:47It all started when I was on a camper van holiday with my wife.
16:50We had the freedom of the open road,
16:52and we had the world's most miserable awning
16:54attached to the side of our camper van.
16:56It was boiling hot when the sun came out.
16:59It was freezing cold the rest of the time,
17:01and it flapped around like a tent possessed.
17:04Worst of all, it was really, really boring.
17:06So we decided we're going to do something about it,
17:08and we created the glawning,
17:10which is a glamorous canvas awning
17:12that can be attached to the side of a camper van,
17:15caravan, motorhome, or large vehicle.
17:17It can also be used as a standalone tent
17:19by zipping off the connecting canopy.
17:22Since we launched,
17:23we have achieved net revenue after VAT
17:27of just over £4.3 million.
17:30And we also have our own festival,
17:32which attracts around 2,000 people every year.
17:35But this is just the beginning.
17:36We now want to build a go-to camping lifestyle brand.
17:41We have some fantastic new products in the pipeline,
17:44and we believe that these are going to open up massive new markets,
17:48and we'd love for you guys to be on that journey with us.
17:51So, Dragons, I invite you now to join us on the glawning revolution.
17:56A glammed-up camping classic,
17:58which attaches canvas to camper van or caravan,
18:02is the brainchild of James Martin.
18:05Please feel free to come and take a look at the product.
18:10Oh, wow. After you.
18:13This is nice.
18:14Oh, it's quite big.
18:15The entrepreneur is seeking £60,000
18:19in exchange for a 10% share in his business.
18:23So, this is a bell tent.
18:25So, really, the unique bit...
18:26Is the attachment to a van.
18:27..is the attachment. It's the awning, isn't it?
18:29It is, yes.
18:29Because normally, that would be closed off.
18:31Yes, yeah.
18:33First to take a closer look at what's on offer
18:37is seasoned camper Jenna Meek.
18:43Hi, James.
18:44Hiya.
18:44So, I love caravanning.
18:46As a kid, I used to always caravan with my parents.
18:49And each time we got away, I'd be like,
18:51are you putting the awning up?
18:52Because then there'd be arguments
18:54because it took so long to put this awning up.
18:56So, how difficult is this one to put up?
18:58How long does it take?
18:59Well, that's one of the reasons we chose a bell tent
19:02as the kind of base tent
19:04because they're very easy to put up.
19:05And it's usually about eight and a half minutes
19:07on my own to go from start to finish.
19:10Okay.
19:10And you mentioned this 4.3 million.
19:14So, what is the current business architecture right now?
19:17Are you selling these at festivals?
19:19Or have you got another company that is a...
19:22You mentioned a festival.
19:23What have you sold to make 4.3 million?
19:25Yes.
19:26So, the 4.3 million is solely to do with the Glawning business.
19:30So, 75% of sales come online
19:33and about 25% at festivals.
19:36We do have a festival.
19:37We run that as a separate company.
19:38So, the first year we did that was 2017.
19:41And we had about 150 people.
19:43And then it's just grown year on year
19:44and there's now about 2,000 people come along to that.
19:47So, that has a separate turnover with its own profit.
19:50James, do you buy these individually or separately?
19:54You buy them separately.
19:55So, you buy the base tent
19:57and then you buy your connecting canopy.
20:00And that varies in size.
20:01So, we do a standard height one
20:02which will fit on the likes of the transporter, which is here.
20:05And then we do a high-top version
20:06which will go on caravans, motorhomes and bigger vehicles.
20:10And we now do an inflatable one
20:12which we've just launched
20:13but we haven't got them in stock yet
20:14but we've kind of sold half of them already.
20:16Okay. So, when did you start this?
20:19I came up with the product in 2013.
20:22At the time, I was actually running a start-up law firm
20:26so my focus kind of wasn't on this.
20:28Okay. So, are these sort of like side hustles for you?
20:33And you're a lawyer by day?
20:36So, at the start, it was a side hustle.
20:38Then it started to do pretty well.
20:40Right. So, you're now doing this full-time?
20:42Yes.
20:46James.
20:47Yeah?
20:48So, I'm assuming you're buying this in from China.
20:52Yeah.
20:54So, there's no barriers to entry on this.
20:58If I wanted to do this, I'd pick up the phone.
21:01Yeah.
21:01And within 12 weeks, I'd have it in my warehouse.
21:05Yeah.
21:05Well, we do have design rights on this particular configuration.
21:08Yeah, but your design right might be
21:10you've got 24 inches higher
21:12but something similar I can get.
21:15Yeah.
21:16I mean, there have been people who have tried to copy it.
21:19I'm not going to copy it.
21:20I'm just going to ring up my team in China
21:23and I pick the ones I want.
21:25Easy as that.
21:29James.
21:30Yes.
21:31On the 4.3 million in revenue you've generated over the last,
21:34is it 10, roughly 10 years, just over 10 years?
21:35Yes, yeah.
21:36What's the net profit been, the cumulative net profit?
21:39About 150,000.
21:41Okay.
21:42So, hmm.
21:46So, when I look at the business,
21:49it doesn't look very investable
21:54because if I were to invest 60,000 pounds,
21:58say it was for 10% or in that region,
22:00it would take some time
22:01based on the profits being generated in the business
22:03to ever get a return.
22:05So, how does a return happen in this business
22:07if the cumulative net profit over the last decade
22:10has been 150K?
22:12So, my plan is now to build the business
22:15on innovation primarily.
22:19We have some great new products in the pipeline.
22:20So, we've got one that we've just recently released.
22:23Which is the inflatable version of the Glawning.
22:28We've already sold half of those
22:29and we should sell the others fairly quickly.
22:33I also have applied for a patent
22:37for a new design
22:38which I think is going to be a game changer.
22:41So, there's future innovation coming,
22:43which I'm betting on?
22:43Yes.
22:44Versus what I see here
22:46and the business in front of me.
22:48I always, it's always a bit of an amber flag for me
22:50when an entrepreneur says
22:52to not invest in the thing in front of me
22:54but in something that is coming.
22:56For me, I'm always like,
22:57I want to invest in...
22:59I can tell you about it.
23:01Yeah.
23:01As I say, the patent that we've just applied for
23:06is something that I think will take this to the next level.
23:10What is that patent?
23:11So, it's for a roof box
23:14which has an inflatable awning
23:18integrated inside of it.
23:20You open the roof box,
23:21you plug into your 12-volt,
23:23you press a button
23:23and the awning inflates out of the side of the van.
23:26So, it's taking the pain points
23:27of having to get the awning out of its bag,
23:30connect the pump up,
23:31pump it up,
23:32line it all up with the van,
23:33connect it,
23:34all of that is kind of done.
23:35And is that a patent
23:37or a design patent?
23:39That's a patent.
23:40That's a patent.
23:40These are just design rights,
23:42but that's a patent.
23:43See, James,
23:45that's so much more exciting than this.
23:47Yes.
23:48Yeah.
23:48Yeah.
23:49I wish you could have come in
23:50and at least demonstrated that.
23:52Yeah.
23:52Even if it was in a prototype shape or form
23:55because that could be investable.
23:57Yeah.
23:58But this is just a tent.
24:02It's tough.
24:04Where are you in your patent?
24:07We've applied for it.
24:08And when?
24:10Yesterday.
24:12Right, OK.
24:13So, well, I wanted to get it in
24:15and have it applied for...
24:16So, you have no idea
24:17whether or not somebody else
24:18is going to pop their head up
24:19and said,
24:20I actually did that about 10 years ago?
24:21No.
24:26James, it's...
24:29There's quite a lot of frustration here
24:33and it also feels a little bit disingenuous
24:36because you only applied for a patent yesterday.
24:41So, it feels like,
24:43I've got this inflatable idea.
24:46Let's quickly pivot.
24:47Let's get this invention
24:48because I know they like patents.
24:50I'm just going to have a go.
24:51So, that's how it feels.
24:52It feels a bit disingenuous, the pitch now,
24:55with what you just said.
24:56Yeah, well...
24:57Why is it...
24:57If this is something that you've been working on
24:59and something you've been thinking about,
25:01why did you apply yesterday for a patent?
25:03Well, I did...
25:04I did bring it forward to yesterday
25:06so I would have the patent applied for.
25:08But I wonder whether your pitch
25:10could have been much better, James.
25:12It could have been, you know,
25:14I've spent the last eight years of my life
25:16creating the perfect awning
25:18and I've given up being a lawyer
25:20to focus on this.
25:22But I've got a seed of an incredible idea
25:24that I think is going to make millions
25:26and it's called
25:27the inflatable roof box awning.
25:31I've now got a patent, Dragons.
25:32Yeah.
25:33And all of a sudden,
25:34I've got a different pitch.
25:36Yeah.
25:36I genuinely, I think we'd be fighting
25:39over who invested.
25:41Sadly, I'm going to say that I'm out.
25:44But I encourage you,
25:46if you do get the patent,
25:48please come straight to me
25:50and I'll deal with you directly.
25:52Thank you, Peter.
25:56James, I always sit here
25:58trying to figure out
25:58whether the entrepreneur is selling me
26:01a measurable past
26:02or a hypothetical future.
26:03Yeah.
26:04So I'm trying to piece together
26:05from what you're saying
26:07what I would actually be investing in
26:08because it's not in the den today.
26:10I'm a big fan of the inflatable idea.
26:12If I tried to put up a tent like this,
26:14it would end up looking like a sleeping bag.
26:16But for me,
26:17as an investment proposition,
26:18it's not for me.
26:19So I'm going to say that I'm out.
26:21Okay.
26:21Thank you, Stephen.
26:26James, I think it's quite cool.
26:28I think it's actually quite...
26:31It's one of those innovations you think,
26:32why didn't somebody do it before?
26:34It feels so obvious.
26:35Yeah, it's very simple.
26:36Very simple, absolutely.
26:38Had you been further down the route of the patent,
26:40I might well have been more inclined to invest,
26:44to be honest.
26:44But right now, I've got a clue.
26:46I haven't got a clue whether or not tomorrow,
26:4827 people go,
26:50yeah, no, I did that 10 years ago.
26:52And neither have you.
26:55So I'm afraid I won't be investing.
26:58And I'm out.
26:59But I really do wish you all the best.
27:01I really do.
27:05James, um...
27:06I take care.
27:11It's a shame.
27:14Because...
27:17Innovation came quite late in the pitch.
27:20So today, unfortunately, it's not investable.
27:23But I wish you all the best, but I'm out.
27:30James, hi.
27:32So I really wish I could have helped you do your pitch
27:35because you came in and you said,
27:37I've got this tent and then I've got this festival,
27:38but the festival's a different business.
27:40Or actually, if you come in and being like,
27:42my vision is to own this world
27:46and you've got this community of 2,000 people
27:49at your fingertips at a festival in real life,
27:52I'm like, oh, my God, there's something there
27:54and you're not seeing the two together
27:56and how that is the start of what could be something huge
28:00because you cannot replicate community.
28:04I think, for me, it's about going away
28:07and understanding with this community
28:08that you've already got.
28:10Start there.
28:11Ask them questions.
28:12Hey, how can we develop this?
28:14How can we make this one better?
28:15Who's interested in the inflatable?
28:17And try and understand how can you be that campervan business
28:21of solution and make it easier for the customers
28:23that want this life that you're trying to sell?
28:26Because I want it.
28:27I've been looking at campervans.
28:28Then you will just fly because I think this is really cool
28:31and I would want my campervan to look like this
28:34when I do get one, but it's not an investment for me,
28:36so I am out.
28:37Okay.
28:38Thank you very much.
28:40Thank you, Dragons.
28:40Thank you, mate.
28:41Really appreciate it.
28:42Cheers.
28:44That's it for James.
28:46The Dragons admired his creativity
28:48but felt the focus had been on the wrong product
28:51and he leaves the den with nothing.
28:56Yes, that was intense.
28:58Peter gave a great alternative pitch,
29:00which, in hindsight, would be lovely to have done,
29:04but it's hard to know what they're going to focus on
29:06and what they're going to build on,
29:07so hey-ho.
29:09Onwards and upwards.
29:28You want some water?
29:30Yes, do this.
29:31I'm Connor.
29:32I'm Harry,
29:33and we're two of the founders of Club Cultured.
29:35Cheers.
29:36Cheers, mate.
29:38And we make delicious, premium,
29:39high-quality ferments and pickles.
29:41We're in the den.
29:43We're going to get the deal we want.
29:45The missus don't like the smell of kimchi
29:47and we close all the time,
29:48but it's all right.
29:50We're dedicated.
29:50We're here.
29:52We're doing the work.
29:53Kimchi.
29:54Oh, fermented foods.
29:56Fermented foods, yeah.
29:58Very good for the gut microbiome.
29:59Very good.
30:01Ready, bro?
30:02All right.
30:03Love you.
30:04Love you too.
30:05We've done our research on the dragons,
30:07and we know they're into gut health,
30:08we know they're big foodies,
30:09and they've made a series of food investments before.
30:12Yeah.
30:14That's what we've been waiting for.
30:16So we're just super excited to get into the den
30:18and share our products and our business with them.
30:31You all right, dragons?
30:32How's it going, dragons?
30:33Hello.
30:33What if we told you there's a fermented food brand
30:36that produces proteins, sides, and sauces?
30:39Well, we're the founders of that brand, Club Cultured.
30:43I'm Harry.
30:44That's Connor.
30:45And our journey began in our business partner, James' back garden,
30:48where we turned an old fridge into a DIY fermenter
30:50and made our first batch of tempeh.
30:52Since then, we have built a delicious range
30:55of premium plant-based ferments and pickles,
30:57crafted by a chef who's trained in Michelin star kitchens
31:01that deliver bold flavors and known gut health benefits.
31:05We believe food that does good should taste amazing too.
31:08That's why our naturally fermented and pickled products
31:11such as our umami-rich kimchi,
31:13satanian krauts, and punchy sauces
31:14are designed to slot effortlessly into your daily meals,
31:17making gut health easy and enjoyable.
31:20We've produced and sold over 200,000 kilos,
31:23generated 1.4 million in sales,
31:25and supplied some of the UK's biggest food brands.
31:28After maxing out our second site,
31:30we moved into our brand new 4,500 square foot
31:33fermentation facility in Norfolk.
31:36We make everything in-house,
31:38giving us total control over quality, flavor, and consistency.
31:44We're now forecasting to hit 4.5 million in sales in 2028,
31:48with a deep pipeline spanning across manufacturing,
31:50food service, and retail.
31:52We're here today to ask for a £50,000 investment
31:55in exchange for 3.5% equity into our brand.
31:58So Connor's prepared some delicious samples for you guys.
32:02We have some tempeh sushi rolls and some kimchi pancakes,
32:05and there's some little tamples of the pickles and ferments
32:06for you to try as well.
32:09A range of gut-friendly pickles and ferments,
32:13including tempeh,
32:14a traditional Indonesian staple made from soybeans,
32:18is the proposition from Harry Watmo and Connor Jordan.
32:23I'm not sure everyone's spice tolerances,
32:25but the red one obviously has some chilli in it,
32:27so don't go eating the whole pot in one go.
32:30The pair are seeking £50,000
32:32in exchange for a 3.5% share in their company.
32:36That smell, that is amazing.
32:39Thank you, it was, um, I bought it in Selfridges.
32:42I'll show you the bottle if you want.
32:44Ode to kimchi.
32:45Yeah, ode to kimchi.
32:47Their products may smell and taste the part...
32:50It's really good.
32:52..but will their enterprise prove just as appetising?
32:58Connor, Harry.
32:59Hello. Hello, Debra.
33:01That tempeh is absolutely delicious.
33:03So, you probably know I'm plant-based.
33:06This looks like the contents of my fridge.
33:09But that tempeh is, I think, the best I've ever, ever tasted.
33:15But I don't understand.
33:16Do you sell the tempeh or are you just giving that to me?
33:18We supplied the ones in the sleeves there as tempeh.
33:21So we actually, when we first discovered tempeh,
33:23we taught ourselves how to make it.
33:25And after a while, we didn't know what we were doing.
33:26We were losing batches, we were working night shifts,
33:28taking it home.
33:29Nothing was working.
33:30So it was like, we need to find the tempeh yoda.
33:32So we went to Indonesia for a week's training,
33:35learned how to make it properly.
33:36And we pride ourselves on making Indonesian grey tempeh,
33:39really doing homage to the quality of that product.
33:42And if you look at the reviews on our website,
33:44it's consistently the same comments,
33:45what, like, people say,
33:46it's the best tempeh I've ever had.
33:49Connor, Harry, really interesting business.
33:52I'm a big gut microbiome fan.
33:54Yes.
33:54What are your backgrounds
33:55and what brought you to the gut microbiome world?
33:58Let's go first, Chef.
33:59So we've known each other since we were five years old.
34:02My background is I didn't do particularly great at school,
34:04but my love was cooking.
34:06So I went to college
34:08and done three years,
34:10professional chef's diploma,
34:11and then I got work experience
34:14in the Ritz Hotel in London.
34:15Then I ended up going there two weeks after I left college at 18.
34:19I stayed there for six years.
34:20And then my background,
34:22so I also left school at 16,
34:24got a job at a stockbroker.
34:26Worked there for six years.
34:27And our other business partner, James,
34:28we're best friends from year seven at school.
34:30We worked with each other from 19 to 22 on the same desk.
34:33We realised that life wasn't for us.
34:35Went travelling for 18 months
34:36to where we sort of first discovered kimchi,
34:39tempeh,
34:39and we just fell in love with it.
34:40And then when we came back to England,
34:42we could just see that everything was really processed.
34:44And we felt like, you know,
34:45there's a huge opportunity for fermented foods.
34:48And we went for it.
34:50So if I'm looking at this business
34:52from a financial perspective,
34:53what year does it really begin for you?
34:562020 was the first year we did manufacturing.
34:58OK, so let's go from 2020.
35:00Give me the revenue and net.
35:01Yeah, so it was 90k revenue,
35:03a loss of 44k.
35:0444?
35:05Yeah, the following year was 275k,
35:08a loss of 73k.
35:10The following year after that was 342k
35:12and a loss of 123k.
35:15And the year after that was 359k
35:17and a loss of 104k.
35:19And then last year was 253k
35:21and a loss of 83k.
35:24You've lost probably almost £400,000
35:27since the business's inception.
35:29Yeah.
35:30Where has that money come from?
35:31So we've had investors.
35:32So we've raised just under half a million
35:34since we started.
35:36And for kitting out our last space,
35:38we took out a loan ourselves
35:39to fund the kit out for our move to Norfolk.
35:42So you've raised 500k for investors.
35:44Yeah.
35:44And how much of the business
35:45do you guys still loan?
35:4756%.
35:4756% between three of you?
35:49Yeah.
35:49OK.
35:50And you've taken a loan of what?
35:51So that last loan, it was 225k
35:54and the outstanding amount we have left
35:56is 174,000.
35:57And how much cash have you got in the bank?
36:00About 85k.
36:01OK, and what are you forecasting for this year?
36:03This year, 450,000
36:05and a net profit of 22 and a half.
36:08And how are you tracking so far for this year?
36:10We've done about 75k so far this year,
36:12but we actually had a new big customer
36:14come visit us two days ago
36:16and we have some big contracts lined up for them.
36:20So, for me, it looks like the business
36:23is going down rather than up.
36:25So what's the goal?
36:26What are you trying to do?
36:27So for us, it's been the leader in the industry
36:30in UK manufacturing for these products.
36:32But you need to do about 100x
36:34compared to where you are,
36:35don't you, to be able to do that?
36:36Yeah.
36:37But we're confident we can build our brand position
36:39as well as on the food service side.
36:41But my big thing here is that
36:43if you want to try and get half a million in sales,
36:45Yeah.
36:46You haven't got the cash.
36:49Well, we're confident with these contracts coming in
36:51that will enable us to grow
36:53and bring more revenue to the business.
36:54Yeah, but how?
36:54How will you do that?
36:55How are you going to pay for it?
36:58Well, we're confident with what we've got at the moment
37:01and we have other investors who said before
37:02when it gets to a stage...
37:04No, that's the point, though.
37:05So what does that mean?
37:06So I invest today, 50k, 3.5%.
37:09Other investors put more money in.
37:11I'm going to go down, aren't I?
37:12I'm going to dilute.
37:13So how much money are you looking to raise,
37:15in essence, over the next 12 months?
37:17Well, this would be the only money we raise
37:19over the next 12 months.
37:20That's not enough.
37:21I think it will be enough.
37:23It's not enough.
37:24It definitely isn't enough.
37:26Because you've raised 500,
37:28you've nearly spent all of that,
37:29you're out of cash.
37:31You've only got cash in your business
37:33because you've got £170,000 of a loan.
37:36You have no cash.
37:37You're currently insolvent.
37:39Well, at today, our current cash position is £85,000.
37:42Yeah, I know, but you owe £174,000.
37:44You can't afford to pay the loan back.
37:46So I'm putting in £50,000 into a business
37:48that already hasn't got enough cash
37:50to pay back its debts.
37:52It's not a good investment, guys.
37:57So I'm going to have to say, sadly, that I'm out.
38:00But I wish you every bit of luck.
38:02And your product does taste beautiful, stunning.
38:05Thank you, Peter.
38:06Great chef.
38:07Thank you very much.
38:10Can I ask when you're going to be making £400,000 profit?
38:14In a single year?
38:15No, as a cumulative.
38:18So by 2026, we're forecasting £1 million
38:22and a net profit of £100,000.
38:23And then the following year, £2.5 million
38:26and a net of £375,000.
38:28So between those next two and a bit years.
38:30OK, so in two years, you'll have made up your losses.
38:32Yeah.
38:33OK.
38:34Um...
38:36..I really, really want to invest in this.
38:43Actually, I'm going to be quiet.
38:45Ooh.
38:48Hi.
38:49Um, I'll just tell you where I am
38:51because I think...
38:52I think you guys are great
38:54and you've done everything to make a beautiful, beautiful product.
38:57But you've got a lot of experts in here
38:59that are probably very clued up on this stuff.
39:01I am probably your more mass-market customer here
39:04because I go into Holland and Barrett
39:05and I don't know what I'll go in for
39:06and then I walk out with 20 prebiotics.
39:09I think as an investor to actually help you,
39:12I wouldn't really be able to do much.
39:14So for that reason, I am out.
39:16But I wish you all the best.
39:18Thank you, Jenna.
39:20Harry and Connor,
39:23I love the fact that you are very knowledgeable.
39:29But today, you've not convinced me to say
39:31this is an investable opportunity at 3.5%.
39:39For that reason, guys,
39:41I'm not going to invest in amounts.
39:43Thank you, Jenna.
39:43Thank you for your comments.
39:46I'm also going to tell you where I am.
39:48My fridge is full of this stuff.
39:51And, um, I had a little bit of a thought
39:53on the brand club culture
39:55because I realised that all of the items that I have,
39:58the kimchi that I have in my fridge,
40:00looks authentic to its native country.
40:04And I think this has been branded
40:06as if it's a mass-market product,
40:08but kimchi isn't quite there yet.
40:10So there's something about it looking
40:13authentic to its native country
40:14that has made it more compelling,
40:16that's made it look real,
40:18versus it looking like a rave.
40:21And I see a business that's...
40:23that has historically lost money every single year
40:26and is in decline from a revenue perspective.
40:30So I'm going to say that I'm out,
40:31but I wish you the very best.
40:32Cheers, Stephen.
40:33Thank you for your feedback.
40:36Um, I actually completely disagree with Stephen.
40:39Ouch.
40:41Oddly, there are plenty of Korean-looking kimchis around,
40:45but the one that really has broken through
40:48isn't a Korean-looking kimchi.
40:50Yeah.
40:51It looks like a pickled product, you know,
40:55so it's sort of recognisable.
40:57And funnily enough,
40:58I think it's going to be more powerful
41:00to move it out of this,
41:01the sort of the shelf that is those things
41:04that other countries eat
41:05and move them onto mainstream.
41:06Yeah.
41:07So it clearly looks like something
41:09that everybody should have in their fridge.
41:10I shouldn't be worrying,
41:11I shouldn't be thinking about
41:12whether or not it's good for my gut or not.
41:13I'm not buying it as a medicine.
41:15I'm buying it because it tastes great.
41:17Yeah.
41:17And I want it in my fridge.
41:25Um...
41:30The thing is...
41:34I do love your story,
41:35and I love where this has come from,
41:38and I think that will come through to the consumer,
41:40and that's, you know, that's really important.
41:44Um...
41:44I think there's a problem, though.
41:48And the problem is you only own 56%
41:50between the three of you.
41:54Um...
41:54Who's your single biggest other shareholder?
41:57Uh, so two guys who come on previously.
42:01And what, so they own between them?
42:037% each.
42:04How much?
42:047% each.
42:057% each.
42:09No, I can't...
42:15I don't like...
42:17I don't like the whole pattern.
42:20And I see this pattern of what's going ahead,
42:23and this is how much cash you're going to need
42:27versus how much equity you have already given away.
42:30Yeah.
42:31You are going to be diluted.
42:32I mean, I can do things that stops me being diluted,
42:35but that isn't fair either.
42:36That's not the type of business...
42:37That's not what I want to do.
42:38Um, so I...
42:40No.
42:40We always know that we...
42:41No, stop talking.
42:42I know what you're doing here.
42:43You're just keeping me talking
42:44so that I don't go out.
42:46I know what you're doing.
42:46I think it's good to keep you talking.
42:48It is, actually.
42:49I'll give you that.
42:50The smaller size of a bigger pie is...
42:50But no, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys,
42:52you're great.
42:53All I can do is tell you
42:55that is a really, really good product.
42:58And I will be a customer,
42:59but I won't be an investor.
43:01No worries.
43:01So, I'm out.
43:02Thank you very much.
43:03Thank you very much.
43:03Cheers, guys.
43:04Good luck.
43:05Cheers, guys.
43:07Harry and Connor
43:08must leave the den empty-handed.
43:12She was tempted by their tempeh,
43:15but ultimately,
43:16Deborah Meaden couldn't be persuaded
43:18to take a punt
43:19on the pickle-loving pair.
43:23That is what it is, aren't they?
43:25Still doing it.
43:26Still doing it.
43:26Pull shot.
43:28Obviously, we didn't get the deal
43:29like we hoped,
43:30but lots of great feedback.
43:33What's next for us
43:34is proving the Dragons wrong
43:35and making them regret their decision.
43:54My name's Sam Beeney
43:55and my business is Kibu.
43:58While Kibu's a product
43:59that people have seen before,
44:01it's quite unique
44:02in how we're doing things.
44:05Oh, this looks fun.
44:07Headphones for kids,
44:08but I feel like there's something
44:09more unique to it than that.
44:11Is it interchangeable?
44:13Yeah.
44:13Build your own headphones.
44:15I like that.
44:17It's so great
44:18when kids get the product
44:20and they get to try it
44:21and their feedback is just...
44:23It really motivates you.
44:24It'd be amazing
44:25to pitch in front of the Dragons
44:27and show them
44:28what Kibu is all about.
44:36Hi, Dragons.
44:37My name is Sam Beeney,
44:39the founder of Kibu,
44:40the children's headphones
44:41you build, repair, recycle.
44:45And today,
44:46I'm seeking £65,000
44:48in exchange for 10% equity
44:50in my business.
44:56Every year in the UK,
44:57over 18 million pairs
44:59of headphones and earbuds
45:00are thrown away.
45:01Most aren't easily fixed,
45:03especially not by kids.
45:04Yet kids are curious,
45:06capable,
45:07and love to build.
45:08So why do we keep
45:09designing tech
45:10that when it breaks,
45:11it gets binned?
45:12At Kibu,
45:13we're doing things differently.
45:15The Kibu headphones
45:16come as a simple kit
45:17that children
45:18or fun-loving adults
45:19can build themselves.
45:20No screws,
45:21no glue,
45:22no fiddly wires,
45:23just simple parts
45:25that snap together.
45:28Like that.
45:29And if a part breaks,
45:32you only need
45:33to replace that part,
45:34helping to reduce waste.
45:37Each pair is 3D printed
45:38in Hackney London
45:39in less than 30 minutes
45:41with our proprietary
45:423D printing code
45:43that doesn't compromise
45:45on speed or quality.
45:47The main material used
45:48is a recycled bioplastic
45:50that comes from plants
45:51like corn.
45:52And when the headphones
45:53reach the end of their life,
45:54the parts can be returned
45:55and recycled
45:56into new products.
45:57With your investment
45:59and experience,
46:00we can scale faster,
46:02develop new products
46:03and shape a generation
46:04of builders,
46:05not just consumers.
46:10A kit for kids
46:11to make their own headphones
46:13is the offering
46:14from Sam Beaney.
46:15Lovely.
46:16I like my chosen colour.
46:18It's got to be green.
46:19It's got to be green.
46:21He's seeking £65,000
46:23for a 10% share
46:25in his business.
46:27Will Sam's sonic startup
46:29hit the right note
46:30with the dragons?
46:33Sam, super interesting.
46:34So what really is
46:35the crux of this business?
46:36Are they aspiring
46:37to be really good headphones?
46:39Or are they aspiring
46:40to be something
46:40that teaches kids
46:41how to build things
46:42and to have a bit of fun?
46:44Yeah, I mean,
46:45we obviously want them
46:46to be great headphones,
46:48but our main goal
46:49is not to compete
46:50with the big players
46:51when it comes to sound
46:52or things like that.
46:53Ultimately,
46:54we're trying to deliver
46:55an experience
46:55to children and families.
46:57You know,
46:57it's being able
46:58to build your headphones
46:58yourselves,
46:59and we hope
47:00that then when they break,
47:01kids are then more likely
47:03to want to repair it
47:04and see the headphones
47:06go through their life.
47:10And is it just you involved
47:11in the business
47:12at the moment
47:12or have you got a team?
47:14Yes, it's mainly me,
47:15but I have two main partners
47:19who are helping me,
47:20so businesses rather,
47:22that are helping me.
47:22So one is a 3D printing
47:23manufacturing company
47:24that I used to work for
47:26and another is an award-winning
47:27design agency.
47:29And what are the total sales
47:30and when did you begin?
47:33So we did our Kickstarter
47:35in April last year
47:38and our total sales
47:40are about £25,000
47:42to date.
47:44Yeah,
47:45sold over 450 pairs.
47:48Sam,
47:49hi.
47:50So how much
47:51do they sell for?
47:52So we sell them
47:53for £39.
47:54OK,
47:55and what do they cost
47:56you to make?
47:57They cost us £10.40.
47:59OK.
47:59And at the moment,
48:01are you only
48:02on the crowdfund platform?
48:04Are you already
48:06selling into retail
48:07or direct to the consumer?
48:08Yes,
48:09so we're selling now.
48:11We're selling direct
48:12to consumers
48:12through our website
48:13and we'd love
48:14to get into retail
48:15and really try
48:17and explore
48:18other avenues as well.
48:21So £40,
48:22that's expensive.
48:24You're limiting
48:25your market
48:26in retail
48:27because of that price.
48:29I can't see this
48:30what I call
48:31mainstream toy shops,
48:33really.
48:34OK.
48:34But I think
48:35while the upfront price
48:37is slightly higher,
48:40the value
48:41over the long term,
48:42we were speaking
48:43to parents
48:43and they were
48:44having to replace
48:45their headphones
48:46like every year
48:47or even less than that.
48:48And yeah,
48:49it may cost you
48:50more upfront,
48:50but if parts break,
48:53you know,
48:53there's this route here
48:54to fix it
48:55and make the headphones
48:56last longer.
48:58Sam,
48:59hi.
49:00I love it.
49:01Like,
49:01I really,
49:02really love it.
49:03I love,
49:03there's so many things
49:04I really like.
49:05I opened this up
49:06and I was like,
49:07oh my God,
49:08my inner child
49:08is so excited
49:09to build that
49:10because it's doing
49:11exactly what
49:12you're trying to do.
49:12it's helping kids
49:14get creative,
49:15understand how
49:16to make inventions
49:17and yeah,
49:18just really,
49:20really love it.
49:20A few questions.
49:21If I went into
49:22your social channel now,
49:23what have you done
49:24so far on social?
49:25Like,
49:26if I'm looking
49:26at your Instagram,
49:27your TikTok,
49:28what am I seeing?
49:29So you're seeing
49:30mainly reels
49:32and posts
49:33showing the headphones
49:34and then the sort
49:35of content
49:35that tends
49:36to be more popular
49:38where the product
49:39is used.
49:40so I guess
49:43this song
49:43kind of,
49:44for example.
49:45But we're trying
49:46to really get into
49:46that,
49:47you know,
49:47the organic engine,
49:48I guess,
49:49that reels
49:49and TikTok
49:50and stuff deliver.
49:50Has any of the content
49:51gone off?
49:52Like,
49:52have you got
49:52a lot of momentum?
49:53We've had posts
49:54that have,
49:57you know,
49:57done 50,000
49:58kind of views,
50:00that sort of thing.
50:01But I think
50:02the challenge we have
50:03is the average
50:04number of times
50:05people are seeing
50:06that content
50:06needs to be
50:07six,
50:07seven times.
50:08They're seeing it
50:09once in this
50:09organic post.
50:10They think,
50:10oh,
50:11that's interesting.
50:11And we're not,
50:13because we don't
50:14have the capital yet,
50:14we can't,
50:15like,
50:16show it to them
50:16again and again
50:17and try and...
50:18So this is why
50:18I'm asking.
50:19Yeah.
50:19Basically,
50:20you find,
50:20you've got a video
50:21with 50,000 views,
50:22you've got a video
50:23with 100,000 views.
50:24That's amazing.
50:25You've just got to
50:25keep creating
50:26more and more
50:26and more of that content.
50:27I build my home
50:28business to,
50:29like,
50:29five million,
50:29basically,
50:30off organic content.
50:31Like,
50:31you've got to
50:32keep going with it.
50:33Yeah,
50:33that's great.
50:34Advice like that.
50:35You know,
50:35that's what we
50:36really need.
50:39Sam.
50:40Hello.
50:41Hello.
50:43I started building
50:44computers when I was
50:45a teenager.
50:46I had no knowledge
50:47of it,
50:48but I loved it.
50:49Yeah.
50:50And I think this is
50:51something that kids
50:51would just love to do.
50:54So tell me about you.
50:55You work for this
50:57company.
50:57Yeah.
50:58Who are the company?
50:59It's this company
51:00called Batchworks,
51:01and they mass-produce
51:01things using 3D printing.
51:03And you left them
51:03to start this business,
51:04or what?
51:05So it was really
51:06a collaboration.
51:07So they are an
51:08equity holder,
51:09along with a design
51:10agency,
51:11and we actually see
51:11that as a strength.
51:12How much do they own?
51:14They own 39%.
51:16Oh,
51:17wow.
51:19And you own?
51:2133%.
51:23Oh,
51:23that means there's
51:24somebody else in here.
51:25So,
51:25yeah,
51:26there's a design
51:26agency who own 20%.
51:29And who owns
51:30the other 8%?
51:31So we have
51:32a web developer
51:34who owns like 4%,
51:35and then there's
51:362.5% that's owned
51:38by a brand agency,
51:40and then I believe
51:41the rest is
51:43just a pool
51:44kind of left.
51:47This is an unusual situation
51:49because you're not
51:50the majority shareholder.
51:52Yeah.
51:52And if you were
51:53to receive an offer
51:54in here today,
51:58presumably you've agreed
51:59with your majority shareholder
52:00what your parameters
52:02of an offer are.
52:04Yeah.
52:04Is that right?
52:05Yes.
52:05And would it be from a dilute,
52:07would everybody dilute,
52:08or does it come
52:09from your shareholding?
52:10Everyone's diluted equally.
52:11Everyone would dilute.
52:23All right,
52:23I'm going to tell you
52:24where I am.
52:25There's something,
52:26there is something
52:27that worries me about it,
52:27Sam,
52:28and I really like you.
52:30I think the design
52:30is really,
52:31really lovely.
52:34There's something
52:34that just isn't
52:35hitting the mark for me.
52:37It's,
52:38you know,
52:38I don't like
52:39the structure
52:39of the business.
52:40I really do like
52:41to be talking
52:41to a majority shareholder.
52:43Yeah.
52:45Just because I like
52:46to get a feel
52:46of where they are
52:47in all of this,
52:48you know,
52:48and understand
52:49if you've got
52:50a decent order,
52:51how much priority
52:52that would get.
52:53There's loads of questions
52:54I'd like to ask
52:54a majority shareholder,
52:55but they're not here today.
52:57So I'm afraid
52:58I won't be investing.
52:59I'm out.
53:00Thank you, Deborah.
53:05Sam,
53:05I really,
53:07the minute I saw it
53:08and the minute
53:08you explained what it was,
53:09I really fell in love
53:10with the idea of it.
53:13But on a personal level,
53:14maybe because
53:14I don't have kids,
53:16Yeah.
53:18it hasn't personally
53:19resonated with me
53:20in the same way.
53:21So I'm going to say
53:21that I'm out,
53:22but I hope you're successful.
53:24Appreciate it.
53:28Sam,
53:28I would say where I am.
53:29Yeah.
53:29You are credible,
53:31right?
53:31And the product's great.
53:34However,
53:35this needs a lot of money.
53:37Yeah.
53:38I think you need
53:39a lot more than 65
53:40to get this out there.
53:43So for that reason,
53:44I'm out.
53:45Thank you, Tika.
53:49Um.
53:53I feel like I'm
53:54in the same place.
53:56Um.
53:58because it's,
53:59it's just very difficult
54:00to find a way
54:02to monetize it.
54:04Um.
54:06Have I missed something?
54:07Why you don't think
54:08it's, um,
54:09monetizable,
54:10Peter?
54:11Have I missed
54:11the profit
54:12on the product or?
54:13Yeah,
54:14the scale at the volume
54:15at 40 pounds.
54:16You think that's
54:17too expensive?
54:18It definitely is,
54:19yeah.
54:19I mean,
54:19these products
54:20to kids are $9.99.
54:22Yeah,
54:22but I think
54:23more parents
54:23are becoming,
54:25um,
54:26are caring more
54:26and more
54:27about the products
54:27they give to their children.
54:28I get that,
54:29but that's a lot
54:29of cash to spend.
54:34Sam,
54:34I'll tell you
54:34where I'm at.
54:36So I've loved this
54:37from the start
54:37and I do think
54:40there is something here
54:42because the thing
54:43is with kids,
54:44it's cult.
54:45It is word of mouth
54:46and you get that right.
54:48It really,
54:49really works.
54:50What I'm brilliant at
54:51is building a brand
54:52that people want to buy into
54:53regardless of what
54:54that product even is
54:55and that's what I feel
54:56like I can help with
54:57and I think
54:58if you're willing to work
54:59like really,
55:00really,
55:00really,
55:00really hard,
55:01like harder
55:01than you've ever worked
55:02to get this
55:03where it needs to be,
55:04this could be really huge.
55:07So I am going
55:08to make you an offer.
55:09You asked for £65,000
55:11for 10%.
55:13My offer is going
55:14to be
55:15all of the money
55:19but I want
55:2015% of the business.
55:23OK,
55:23thank you very much.
55:28Yeah, Sam.
55:32I think Jenna's
55:33given you a really,
55:34really good offer
55:35given the structure
55:38at 15%.
55:39But that's going
55:40to be tough for me
55:41because I think
55:43you're going to need
55:44a lot of work here
55:46and a lot of money
55:46to make this business
55:48a success.
55:49Yeah.
55:52Obviously,
55:52equity is important
55:53and it matters
55:54but I think
55:55having a small part
55:56of a big thing
55:56is better
55:58than a big part
55:58of nothing.
56:00Peter,
56:01what about we share?
56:03Would you consider that?
56:09Yeah,
56:10I would consider that.
56:14I'll tell you what,
56:15I think I'm going
56:15to do two things.
56:16I'm going to give you
56:17an offer of all
56:18all of the money,
56:20$65,000
56:24for 20%
56:25of the business
56:27or I would be willing
56:29to share it with Jenna
56:30and give you
56:31half the money
56:32for 10%.
56:33So I'd have 10%,
56:34Jenna would have 10%
56:36because I think
56:37I would have to do
56:38so much work
56:38and Jenna brings
56:39so much
56:40to this party.
56:47Okay.
56:49I think,
56:50yeah,
56:50I'd love to have
56:50both of you on board.
56:51That'd be all.
56:52Yes!
56:55Well done.
56:56Yeah,
56:57it was great.
56:57Well done.
56:58Well done.
56:59Well done.
56:59Yeah.
57:00Yeah,
57:01fantastic.
57:01Well done.
57:02Appreciate it.
57:04Success for Sam
57:06who secures
57:07the backing
57:07of two dragons
57:08who will help
57:09ensure his product
57:11makes waves
57:12in the world
57:13of children's headphones.
57:14I didn't quite
57:15expect to get
57:16one dragon
57:17let alone two.
57:18It's just,
57:18you know,
57:19amazing.
57:20We're in business
57:21together.
57:22Yes,
57:22I think it could be
57:24really,
57:24really exciting.
57:26Really good.
57:27Okay,
57:28I need to go
57:28and plug in.
57:29Does he look
57:30like a cyber man?
57:31You don't watch
57:32Doctor Who,
57:32do you?
57:33He looks like
57:33a cyber man.
57:34Yeah,
57:35I definitely
57:35don't think they fit.
57:44Good luck.
57:45Next time.
57:46That one definitely
57:47isn't rubbish.
57:48You're on fire
57:48with your puns,
57:49Peter.
57:50I couldn't agree
57:51less with Susie.
57:52Oh, really?
57:53This is going to be
57:53ridiculous.
57:54I just know
57:54it's going to be
57:55ridiculous.
57:55I'm not looking
57:56forward to your
57:56questions,
57:57but I'm here now.
57:58Oh, my Lord.
57:59What?
58:00I'll come and cry
58:01on your shoulder
58:02later.
58:04I've no idea
58:04why I'm engaging
58:05in this.
58:05I hate this game.
58:25I hate this game.
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