- 3 months ago
Dragons Den UK S22E14 >>> https://dai.ly/x9syexu
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00:00I'm Andrew. I'm 39 years old and I'm from Newcastle. Who's your favorite?
00:18Oh, I think Saris.
00:22Got her, but she's from the office. She's the funniest.
00:25Turn the go, man.
00:28I don't think the Dragons are going to know what hit them when we hit the den.
00:33We're going to bring some drama. We're going to bring some theatre. We're going to bring the best of pro wrestling.
00:39Hopefully, we're going to put the Dragons in their back foot to the point where they get in their back pocket and give me a bit of money.
00:50Yo, yo, yo, Dragons. I want you all to make some noise.
00:57My name is Man Light Derese and I'm a wrestler at North Wrestling and I am the champion.
01:06And I'm here to offer all-
01:13Yeah.
01:15Oh, God.
01:17Yeah.
01:18No.
01:19No.
01:20No.
01:21No.
01:22I don't care about these piles of money and this investment. I'm Rory Coyle and I'm here for the biggest prize in pro wrestling, that North Wrestling Championship.
01:34So, what do you say? On Dragons, Dan, let's go.
01:42All right, then let's go.
01:43Yeah, let's go. You enjoy. You enjoy, mate.
01:47You enjoy, mate.
01:48Go on, go on.
01:49Go on, go on.
01:50Go on, go on.
01:51Oh, back.
01:52Oh.
01:53Oh.
01:54Oh.
01:55Yeah.
01:56Oh.
01:57Oh.
01:58Oh.
01:59Oh.
02:00Oh.
02:01Oh.
02:02Oh.
02:03Oh.
02:04Yeah.
02:05Yeah.
02:06That's the dragon's heave's eye!
02:23One, two, three!
02:31Well done, guys.
02:34Sorry about that.
02:37I'm Andrew. I'm the owner of North Wrestling,
02:40a modern pro wrestling company
02:42based in Newcastle upon Tyne.
02:44I'm here to ask you for £60,000 of investment
02:47for 25% of my business.
02:50So I fell in love with wrestling when I was a kid.
02:52I used to sit on the couch with my dad
02:54and we used to watch it on a Saturday morning.
02:56As a teen, I used to go to live wrestling shows
02:58and as an adult, I'd take my kids to wrestling shows too.
03:01So eight years ago, I started North Wrestling.
03:04North Wrestling!
03:06North Wrestling!
03:08North Wrestling!
03:10I used everything that I had learned on the way as a fan
03:12to start that company.
03:14The vision for North Wrestling is the ultimate variety show.
03:17I want to put a show on that has the biggest superheroes
03:21against the hardest supervillains.
03:23David versus Goliath.
03:25I want to create a community around what we've done.
03:27I want the audience to feel like me and my dad felt
03:30when we watched wrestling on a Saturday morning.
03:33I knew that we had done this with our biggest show last year
03:36with 700 people in an arena in Newcastle.
03:39But we have to take it to a wider audience.
03:42I'm asking for your investment in the magic that is pro wrestling.
03:48An impactful pitch from wrestling impresario Andrew Bowers.
03:56Guys, thank you very much.
03:57That was really entertaining.
03:58That was brilliant.
03:59Well done.
04:00Andrew is seeking £60,000 in return for a 25% share in his company.
04:07We're friends again.
04:09An all-action demo might have floored the dragons,
04:13but will the business pack a similar punch?
04:20Andrew, that was quite a good performance.
04:23Yeah.
04:24So, if I'm to invest in your business, describe to me what is your business?
04:31What am I investing in?
04:33We're a ticket selling business, first and foremost.
04:35My job is to sell tickets.
04:36Okay.
04:37But in a modern world, we also have, you know, there's other forms of revenue.
04:41So, merchandising is a classic one.
04:44But also, it's the kind of residual online video stuff that we do.
04:48So, we try and tell a lot of stories on social media.
04:50And with that comes many other revenue.
04:53Okay.
04:54So, give me an example.
04:55Your next big fight night, how many people do you expect on that night?
05:00So, we estimate 700 people getting through the door.
05:03And how much ahead?
05:04So, that would be, we tier the prices.
05:07So, the entry point is £28.
05:09So, we're averaging about £35 on average.
05:12Right.
05:13We are looking then to sell 700 of them.
05:15So, if you can do the quick math on that, I guess.
05:17£21,000?
05:18Yeah.
05:19Yeah.
05:20So, to run a show probably cost us somewhere around £15,000 and £16,000 at the moment.
05:25So, it's quite a low margin.
05:27Yeah.
05:28Low margins to a certain extent.
05:29Low margin.
05:30So, give us the last few years of revenue, gross profit and net profit.
05:34So, last year we made £43,000 worth of revenue.
05:38Gross profit was £17,000 with a net of £2,000.
05:42Is that after paying yourself?
05:44Err, no.
05:45Because you can't be paying yourself at £17,000.
05:47No.
05:48You know?
05:49I'm not paying myself at the minute.
05:50So, how are you living?
05:51So, I'm a graphic designer.
05:52I'm a creative.
05:53You've got a side hustle.
05:54Oh, this is a side hustle.
05:55I work for it out.
05:56Yeah, yeah.
05:57This is probably the side hustle that is becoming the main thing.
06:00Right.
06:01But I work in wrestling as well.
06:02I work as a consultant for another wrestling company as well.
06:04So, I get paid for that.
06:05Yeah.
06:06I'm a creative hustler.
06:10Andrew.
06:11Hi.
06:12Hi, Peter.
06:13Great impact.
06:16Really good.
06:17Err, in essence, it is what it says on the tin really.
06:23And you said it, it's a ticket selling event business.
06:26Yeah.
06:27If I compare this to other similar events, doesn't your business need a sort of a hero
06:35name that will bring an audience?
06:38So, for example, we all know The Rock.
06:40Yeah.
06:41I couldn't even tell you what the event is or what he's part of, but I could tell you
06:45that if The Rock is going and he's turning up, he's going to sell tickets.
06:50Is that not what you really need to do to bring the following?
06:54Absolutely.
06:55I think breaking into the mainstream is bringing something that non-wrestling fans can recognise
07:01and go, right, who's this?
07:03Or something that surpasses what pro wrestling is.
07:05Yeah.
07:06I think...
07:07So, what's your plan there?
07:08Who's the most famous wrestler in the UK?
07:11So, Joe Hendry is a big name in the UK.
07:14He's contracted over to a big company in America, but he performs over here as well.
07:19See, the issue with pro wrestling in Britain is we have, for pound for pound, we create
07:25some amazing talent, but they have to leave the British Isles to then go on and be a star.
07:30And what is the biggest, what's the largest event in the UK for wrestling?
07:34So, the largest event isn't run by a British company, I would say.
07:37I think British companies are all on the same level at the moment, of which we're probably
07:42up there with 700, 800 people.
07:44The largest events, though, are with WWE or AEW.
07:48They bring their show to town.
07:50They sell out all the way through wherever they go.
07:53But then when you look at that scale, though, when you say that you're up there with those
07:56players and you're generating 17k gross profit, I think that sort of says the issue, doesn't it?
08:00Yeah.
08:01The scale or the opportunity potentially isn't there.
08:04Possibly, but I think when you break into a mainstream market and you get more people in,
08:09the actual costs of running a show, they're relatively negligible to what revenue you can
08:15bring in from a wider audience.
08:20Andrew, hi.
08:21Hi.
08:22I might be wrong, but I think I might be the only dragon who's actually ever put on wrestling matches.
08:27Have you actually?
08:28I think that was a pretty...
08:30Pretty safe...
08:31Fair, safe, yes.
08:32Yeah.
08:33So, in my holiday parks...
08:35Of course.
08:36We used to put on wrestling matches every week for many, many years.
08:43But they slowly dwindled.
08:46Less and less attendance.
08:48And actually, at one point, we just thought this is old...
08:51Yes.
08:52Brace yourself for these words.
08:53This is old-fashioned.
08:54Yeah, absolutely.
08:55This is not a thing of the future and it's not attracting people.
08:59So, we're talking 20 years ago.
09:02So, what's actually happened to the market?
09:04Are there more people going to see wrestling, less people going to see wrestling?
09:07There's loads more people going to see wrestling now than there was back then.
09:10And the audience has changed as to who it was.
09:12I think if you look at buying habits as well, people are buying experiences
09:16rather than just going out on an ad hoc night out.
09:19But the evidence says differently because the evidence says, and these are your words,
09:24our wrestlers are leaving these aisles to go and wrestle in the US.
09:29Yeah.
09:30That tells me there's an issue with the audience size in the UK.
09:35That's supplementing what they do in Britain.
09:40The reason that they go to the US is because wrestlers want to get signed by the WWE or AEW over there
09:46because they're the only alternative to actually giving you a career as a wrestler.
09:50We don't have that here.
09:52What you're not asking yourself, Andrew, is why?
09:54Demand.
09:55Stephen has got the answer.
09:56Yeah, of course, it's economics.
09:57Why?
09:58It is economic.
09:59If there were enough people here who were that interested in what you...
10:12There's loads of it.
10:13You know, you get thousands of people.
10:15We're talking a population of 65 million.
10:17There are not enough of those people to actually support the industry
10:22to the level at which it can be supported in foreign territories.
10:26I mean, that's just how economics works.
10:31No?
10:32Well, yeah, maybe, I think.
10:33But, you know, you see the audiences that are watching wrestling over here.
10:37They are huge.
10:38It's about tapping that and giving them an alternative to American wrestling.
10:43Andrew.
10:44When I was young, I spent all my childhood watching wrestling.
10:49And then at some point when it came off TV,
10:51that demand for wrestling and that sort of obsession with it,
10:54me and my brothers, switched over to other things like boxing.
10:57And the UFC rose out of nowhere.
10:59British boxing's at an all-time high.
11:00Now influencer boxing is selling out stadiums up and down the country.
11:05And wrestling seems to have vanished.
11:07And now it's only left at WrestleMania,
11:09which is like once a year when my timeline again talks about wrestling for one day.
11:13And then after WrestleMania, it's gone again.
11:16So when I look at this business, I go, actually, to win here,
11:19we have to cultivate broad cultural demand in wrestling again.
11:28And honestly, to win in that race,
11:29you'd need tens of millions of dollars potentially.
11:31So with the 60K here, I think we could accelerate this business,
11:38but not to a point where I'd make a return as an investor.
11:41So I'm going to say that I'm out.
11:47Andrew.
11:49Hi, Peter.
11:50Hi, Peter.
11:51I think this is a great business for you.
11:54And I hope it continues.
11:56But as an investment, there's a ceiling to the opportunity here.
11:59And I can't see how I could extract any money out of it.
12:01So for that reason, I'm out.
12:04But thanks for coming in.
12:07Andrew.
12:08Yes.
12:10At the end of the day, I can't see how giving you $60,000
12:14on my hard-earned money, I can't see a return on it.
12:18And for that reason, Andrew, I wish you all the best, but I'm out.
12:26Andrew.
12:28From what I saw on that screen there,
12:30you're putting on a very good product.
12:32Yeah.
12:33That isn't the problem.
12:35In fact, the fact you're putting on a good product
12:37has kind of worried me a bit.
12:39Okay.
12:40Because you are putting on a good product.
12:42Yeah.
12:43And it hasn't whooshed off.
12:45It's a business for you.
12:48It's a business of passion and love and community.
12:53But it's not an investment for me.
12:56I mean, I never thought I'd say these words.
12:59I think I've left my wrestling days behind.
13:02LAUGHTER
13:07But you know where I'm going.
13:08Yeah, yeah.
13:09I'm afraid I won't be investing.
13:10I'm out.
13:12Thank you very much.
13:16So, that just leaves the logo last.
13:18Howe.
13:19Howe.
13:21What does that mean?
13:22I don't know if anyone's ever actually defined what that means.
13:25There's a general understanding of it.
13:26Just a general howe.
13:27Just a good word.
13:28Howe.
13:29Howe.
13:30I got excited when you came in.
13:36I loved the performance.
13:37I loved the presentation of it.
13:39When you were talking, I'm thinking, oh, this is brilliant.
13:43But when you describe the business opportunity,
13:47it's not exciting, really.
13:49So, I'm going to politely decline the offer
13:52and say all the best, but I'm out.
13:55Thank you very much.
13:56Good luck, Andrew.
13:57Thank you very much.
13:58Thank you very much.
13:59What are your passion?
14:00Thank you for the opportunity.
14:02A high-octane arrival, but much lower-key departure.
14:08Unlike his wrestlers, Andrew couldn't twist any arms
14:13and must leave the den without a deal.
14:16I feel disappointed we didn't get investment, but the dragons were real fun to talk to.
14:22And I've taken a lot away from it.
14:24There's a bit of excitement for the den.
14:26I enjoyed that.
14:27Do you know what's quite nice, though?
14:28It's quite nice to see a fight from the contestant perspective in the den rather than the dragons.
14:33I don't know.
14:34I learnt some moves there.
14:35Oh.
14:36It's coming.
14:37The elbow.
14:38Here we go.
14:39My name's Fiona Rucci, and I'm from near Stirling in Scotland.
14:44I just have to remember not to embarrass my kids.
14:45I've always had a passion for really clean ingredients in really good skin care, and I wanted to apply my knowledge and skills to skin that had been tattooed.
15:01Tattoos?
15:02Tattoos.
15:03I am tattooed from just below there.
15:04My favourite tattoo's the one on your lower back.
15:06The kondalini snake.
15:07Yeah, that one.
15:08I don't have any tattoos.
15:09However, if today are not your feet wet, I'm taking it off again.
15:10to apply my knowledge and skills to skin that had been tattooed.
15:17Tattoos.
15:18I am tattooed from just below there.
15:22My favourite tattoo is the one in your lower back, the kondalini snake.
15:25Yeah, that one.
15:28I don't have any tattoos.
15:30However, if today goes well, I'll get a dragon.
15:40Hello, and thank you very much for having me here.
15:49My name is Fiona Ritchie, and I'm here to ask for £60,000 for 15% in my award-winning tattoo aftercare product.
16:00The ink balm is a stick of natural, vegan oils and butters that could help to continue the life of your tattoo
16:08and keep the colours bright and the lines defined.
16:11But the ink balm is actually more than just a beautiful, nourishing skincare product.
16:16It's a celebration of tattoo artistry.
16:18We work with tattoo artists, and we encourage them to create their own bespoke labelling.
16:24They can sell it through their own studios, which increases their own revenue,
16:29and it also helps them to promote good quality, long-term care of the artwork.
16:34In the 18 months that we've been selling the products, we've sold over 3,500 sticks and raised over £20,000 of turnover.
16:44We want to take the brand into two different markets.
16:47The first market is the tattoo studios.
16:49At the moment, we're working with 10 studios in the UK and overseas.
16:52The other market I would like to take the brand into is the gifting market.
16:59Everyone knows someone with a tattoo.
17:01And I want this to be the go-to and the on-the-go product for your tattooed skin.
17:06At the moment, we're working with the Superdrug website, the National Galleries of Scotland,
17:10and we're in a conversation with WHSmith Retail about trying the range out in one of their airport outlets.
17:18If you'd like to go under your chairs, there is a discovery box for you.
17:24A range of natural skincare products, specifically targeted at those with tattoos...
17:30Thank you very much, Chrissie.
17:32No, thank you.
17:32..is the offering from Fiona Ritchie.
17:35You have an unfragranced tattoo balm.
17:39You also have a fragrance balm.
17:42And I've asked five tattoo artists to each create you an individual dragon tattoo.
17:47So the dragon tattoo on the ink balm stick is specifically for you.
17:53Fiona is seeking £60,000...
17:55It's beautiful.
17:57..in return for 15% of her business.
18:01It smells lovely as well. I can smell it, is it?
18:03Can I smell it very...
18:04Yes, don't you smell that?
18:05Don't you smell it?
18:06That's the fragrant Stephen that smells.
18:11Stephen Bartlett might be pleasant on the nose,
18:14but Fiona has her eyes firmly fixed on a deal.
18:18So will her products for tattoos enthuse or bemuse?
18:26Right, Fiona, I'm going to ask questions now.
18:30Yes, please do.
18:30My sister's got tattoos, actually.
18:32Yes.
18:33My younger sister, she's just had a tattoo done.
18:37Yes.
18:37A tiny little tattoo on her wrist.
18:39So I've been watching it, you know,
18:41it goes slightly red when it first started.
18:43It does, yes.
18:43So she's going through the whole care piece.
18:45Yes, yes.
18:46But I don't pretend that I really know this market.
18:48Absolutely.
18:49So how big is the market?
18:51Well, they say that 40% of millennials and Gen Z have a tattoo
18:56and very few people have only one tattoo.
18:59Once you start, it's very difficult to stop.
19:02So the market is enormous.
19:04In the UK, there are 3,000 studios and 10,000 tattooed artists
19:09and it's the most regularly open shop in the UK at the moment,
19:15just on the high street.
19:16So it's huge.
19:18And this lovely thing.
19:19Yes.
19:20How much would this cost?
19:21So the Discovery Box retails at £38.50.
19:24And can I buy them individually?
19:26I guess I can.
19:26Yeah.
19:27So the ink balms themselves sell individually at £12.50 each.
19:31They go to trade at £5.20 ex-fat and they can multiply that 2.4
19:37and I make them for £3.30.
19:40And how does that work?
19:42So I can see how that works in tattoo studios.
19:45Yes.
19:45But you're talking to some big retailers.
19:47Yes.
19:47So what's the brand when you go into big retailers?
19:50Because you're not going to be able to change the label for every...
19:52No, no.
19:53So what we've done is the brand will always be consistently the ink balm.
19:57And if you have a look at the labels,
19:58the space for the different tattoo artists' artwork
20:01is the same space for every label.
20:04So we just swap in the different artwork.
20:07We number them as well.
20:08How does that work in retail?
20:10In big retail, we have five designs.
20:13They are here somewhere.
20:14And my last question for the moment,
20:16because I expect there'll be more.
20:18Yes.
20:18Is you sound like you're very familiar with retail
20:21because you're talking about, you know, mark-ups
20:23and you kind of use a language that tells me
20:26you have been there and done that.
20:28Yes.
20:28So what's your background?
20:30Well, I started my career as an occupational therapist
20:33in the health service,
20:34and then I had my two children.
20:37And I found myself solo parenting them
20:39when they were two and three.
20:40And I wanted to work,
20:42but I wanted to be there for them permanently.
20:44So I started making handmade natural skincare back then.
20:48So basically, I've run a business from then until now
20:52within the Scottish giftware market.
20:55And that's separate from this?
20:56It's entirely separate.
20:57It's very different.
20:59And what's the turnover of that?
21:00The turnover of that's about £180,000.
21:02Right.
21:03Okay.
21:04Fiona?
21:04Yes.
21:05I think the most pressing question for me as an investor here
21:08is if you've run that other business for a while...
21:11Yes.
21:12And it's doing £180,000 income.
21:14Yes.
21:14How can you make a case to me
21:16that this business will be different?
21:19The business I've run so far has been,
21:21and I don't like the term, kind of lifestyle.
21:23It's enabled me to raise my children.
21:26And the thing about this is this is for me now.
21:29You know, they have flown my nest,
21:31and I'm filling my nest with tattooed people,
21:34which is wonderful, I have to say.
21:36But this is a very defined market, I think,
21:39and it's a burgeoning market.
21:41So I think the potential for this business is enormous.
21:45So I have a three-year plan for the end of three years
21:48to have a turnover of £488,000.
21:51So let's break down those numbers then.
21:52So you said in the last 18 months you've done £20,000?
21:55Yes.
21:55In the last 12 months, how much of that revenue has showed up?
21:59In the last 12 months, probably half of that.
22:02We've done £10,000 in the last year.
22:04So this year, the next 12 months, what sort of revenue...
22:07I would like to have a revenue of £125,000.
22:10OK.
22:11And where's that going to come from?
22:14The business I've run so far has always been done organically
22:17and kind of bootstrap.
22:18I've never asked for funding or financing before.
22:21And I would like to...
22:23This is why I'm here is to actually run a business with funds behind me
22:28to be able to bring in experts in, you know, in marketing,
22:32in, you know, sales, to help me set up the manufacturing,
22:35to be able to absolutely accelerate forward.
22:39Fiona.
22:39Yes.
22:40And you see, you're very passionate about this.
22:43Yes.
22:44I think the difficulty for me, you've come in here
22:47with a £20,000 turnover.
22:51Yes.
22:51And you're very niche in respect of focusing on the artist,
22:56which I think is great, don't get me wrong.
22:58That's my unique selling point, I think, is the artwork.
23:02Right.
23:02But then I say to myself, how big can this business really get?
23:07Yeah.
23:08I also know that there is more and more people
23:12who are willing to have tattoos.
23:14And the question really is, is your product must have tattoo care?
23:19Uh-huh.
23:19And the moment you get to that,
23:21it's a product you could pick up in boots or whatever,
23:25or you're aiming in a different end with the artist.
23:31And I'm trying to work out, is the potential A with the artist?
23:35Yes.
23:35Or is the potential to say, look, whoever's got a tattoo
23:39needs this to look after their tattoo, which becomes a commodity.
23:43Yes.
23:43And I just think that the artistic front might be holding back the business.
23:48Yeah.
23:48What I wanted to create is a commodity that has shelf appeal,
23:52that makes you go, ooh, I would really like that.
23:54And by using tattoo art, you're drawn to it.
23:57No, but I don't think it's that.
23:58I personally think, this is my own view.
24:02Yes.
24:02The tattoo art, it's great, artistic.
24:05Yes.
24:06But you've got to put that aside and say, whoever's got a tattoo needs this.
24:11Once you start selling the art, they've got two things to worry about.
24:14Yeah.
24:14The consumer needs to know one thing.
24:16Yes.
24:16I've got a tattoo, I want to protect my tattoo, that's for me.
24:19Yes, which I have to say is what the product is for.
24:22But you're not selling it that way.
24:24Your pitch is very much based around the artist, the studio.
24:28And that's one channel.
24:30I'm not saying you haven't got that channel.
24:32But your main channel is mainstream.
24:34Yes.
24:34How many people in the country have got tattoos?
24:37A third.
24:37A third of people.
24:38A third of the popular?
24:39Yes.
24:39Yeah.
24:40Well, that's your pitch.
24:41Absolutely.
24:42It's huge.
24:43But all this.
24:43But then what people tend not to do is look after them once I've got them and they're healed.
24:48Fiona.
24:49Fiona.
24:49Sorry.
24:50Fiona.
24:50You're 100% right.
24:52Yes.
24:52Just hit it.
24:53Yes.
24:54You need them all to have one of these.
24:56Yeah.
24:56Because it's a must-have for tattoos.
24:59Yeah, absolutely.
25:00And that's what I wanted to hear.
25:02Yeah, they do.
25:02Rather than, I want to work with the artists, I want to put, that to me is airy-fairy.
25:08In real business, you've got to have a product that you can say, I am the number one tattoo
25:14ointment in the market.
25:16And that's what you've got to be.
25:17But at the moment, you've not convinced me that my investment, I'm going to get a return
25:23on it.
25:23Right.
25:24Okay.
25:25Okay.
25:25And for that reason, I'm out.
25:29Fiona, just a question.
25:30Yes.
25:30I'll tell you something you said to Tuukka there.
25:33You said the unique selling point of this business is the artwork.
25:36Yes.
25:37Really, like, most of the growth of any business, at its heart, comes from its unique selling
25:42point.
25:42Yes.
25:43And if you're telling me that that is the artwork, then I go, you have no unique selling
25:48point.
25:48No.
25:48Okay.
25:48Because if I'm a rival brand, if I wanted to completely destroy your moat around your castle,
25:52all I've got to do is put some of that artwork on there.
25:56Yes.
25:56So I'm going to say that I'm out, but I wish you the very best.
25:58Well, thank you.
25:59Thank you so much for considering it.
26:01So listen, I disagree with Tuukka.
26:03I think it is the whole artist piece.
26:06Yes.
26:06That makes you different because you have got so many alternatives.
26:11So I think that you're going to do very well with tattoo artists and the actual tattoo
26:17studios.
26:18Yes.
26:19Because they are going to love that they're going to be able to represent their creativity
26:23on that product.
26:24Yes.
26:25However, I don't see the massive piece that you see.
26:31Yes.
26:31So I'm afraid I'm going to say those words.
26:34I'm out.
26:35That's fine.
26:36Thank you very much.
26:36Fiona, I can see why it's attractive for you to have an investor in the business.
26:43Yes.
26:44I've got to sit and look, is it attractive for me as an investor to have you within my
26:48portfolio?
26:49What does that bring?
26:50Yeah.
26:50How does that deliver for me?
26:52And I think that is the bit that I'm struggling with is it's not an attractive investment proposition
26:58from the standpoint of what I give versus what I can make.
27:01Absolutely.
27:02So I'm really sorry to say it for you, but I'm out.
27:06Yeah.
27:08Fiona.
27:08Yes.
27:10Congratulations on being able to, let's say, pivot and create something and bring up two
27:17kids on your own.
27:18That's, that's, you've already done, you've already got the tick in the box there.
27:22And you're clearly going to need help here and support and guidance, exactly as you said.
27:27And sometimes that's exactly why investors come in.
27:30They do provide that for you.
27:33I don't think this is particularly niche either.
27:36So it's an interesting one because like you say, the market is huge.
27:39Yeah.
27:40Yes.
27:41But it's specifically going to the product that you've created.
27:45You could quite easily go to all the tattoo studios and get the product listed in there.
27:50And I'm sure you're tenacious enough to go and do that yourself.
27:53Yeah.
27:53And then once you've got 3,000 tattoo studios and you're going to get the traction then with
28:01the other players, you've, you've really starting to calculate the market.
28:05So I think you've got a real chance there of doing this.
28:08Let's try and look at this from my perspective and get excited about it is, is, is a little
28:13bit tough being honest with you.
28:15Yeah.
28:15Yeah.
28:15Fair enough.
28:16So I'm going to say that I'm not going to invest and I'm out.
28:19And I say, good luck to you.
28:20Thank you very much.
28:21It's a pleasure meeting you.
28:23No deal for Fiona.
28:25I won't need to get a dragon tattoo now because if I got a dragon, I'll get your tattoo.
28:32But while she may have drawn a blank in the den.
28:36Thank you very much.
28:36Lovely to meet you, Fiona.
28:37The tattoo care entrepreneur doesn't seem too needled.
28:46I do understand why they didn't invest because it does look like a very small turnover so far.
28:52But it's upwards and onwards for the brand.
28:56And I'm still going to go on that journey.
28:58Hi, my name is Rudi Al-Sai and I live in London.
29:20I never expected to be developing an edtech gaming studio, but here I am looking for funding now.
29:30Oh, this looks good.
29:32Gaming.
29:33Brain spark.
29:34So again, to test your brain.
29:36Who's going to do it?
29:37I need to test my brain.
29:40Recharge.
29:42I could have easily been a girl left in the village in Pakistan, which is where my parents came from.
29:48If they hadn't migrated to the UK and really focused on us getting an education, I don't think I'd be here today.
29:56And I just feel that if I have certain opportunities, I have to really leverage those for the greater good.
30:02That's something that's really important to me.
30:07Hello, Dragons.
30:10My name is Rudi Al-Sai.
30:12I'm the founder of Brain Spark Games.
30:14I'm looking for £10,000 for 1% equity.
30:18I started the company because I literally couldn't get my kids to stop gaming.
30:22I don't know if any of you have had this problem.
30:24But when I was helping my son with his 11 plus exams a few years ago, it occurred to me that if millions of children globally are playing mobile games,
30:33then why are we not disseminating educational content through games?
30:37We've condensed 12 weeks of term-time learning into just a few hours of fun, fast gameplay.
30:43Our games are designed for girls and boys to be played as part of a mainstream lesson plan, an after-school activity or on the go if you're travelling or something like that.
30:52We've play-tested our games with over 1,800 children, parents and teachers and developed a really strong product market fit.
30:59And I hope that you will consider joining us on that journey.
31:04So if I could ask one of the Dragons to have a demo, maybe with our game.
31:09Tuka, go on.
31:10Go on.
31:12Come on.
31:12It'll be fun.
31:13They're setting me up here.
31:14I know what they're doing.
31:16A digital platform which aims to channel children's passion for gaming into a love of learning is the offering from Radar El Sai.
31:25If you just scroll through the carousel, that gives you a sense of all the different subjects, physics, math, languages.
31:34So these are a lot of the games that are currently in development.
31:37So what we've done with the climate game is we've researched 14 core subjects that explain to children the causes of climate change.
31:46So if we're going to industrialisation...
31:48Cleaner.
31:48Redar is seeking £10,000 in exchange for 1% of her business.
31:56So we always have exploration mode and you can click to the portal and now you've got to find your way to the portal to build a sustainable city.
32:05So if you use the navigation button here, you can explore.
32:08So I probably don't want to walk around the middle.
32:11Not on the road.
32:13On the path to.
32:14Still want to get run over.
32:15He's lost already.
32:16Tuukka Suleiman may be struggling to get his bearings.
32:21I give up.
32:21You did really well.
32:23But will this combination of technology and teaching have the dragons heading straight for their pockets?
32:30Stephen Bartlett is first to find out more.
32:35Radar.
32:36Yes.
32:36Really interesting.
32:37What's your professional background?
32:39So I'm a qualified barrister.
32:41I've had a number of businesses in the creative industries.
32:43And prior to starting this three, four years ago, I worked as a portfolio manager in culture, heritage, tech and education led regeneration with government in the UK and the Middle East.
32:55Are you focused on this business now?
32:56Are you doing something else?
32:57I mean, I resigned from a very well paid job that I absolutely loved in August 21 because I realized that I either had to scale and grow this and commit full time or stop.
33:09So I've been full time since.
33:11So funding wise, how have you funded this business?
33:14So I've put in over £470,000 of my own money for my salary and my savings.
33:20And are you the only investor in the business?
33:21So actually, we've just closed around.
33:24We've just raised £1.4 million.
33:26We raised £700,000 through what I call super angels, predominantly from the gains industry.
33:31And then we secured our seventh Innovate UK grant for £700,000.
33:36So they match funded the investment.
33:39How are you marketing this?
33:40Because it sounds like this is for schools.
33:42By going into schools and doing playtesting, by going into public spaces, by doing a bit of social media marketing.
33:49OK, I have a question about the business model, which is how you intend to make money, because it's pretty difficult to make money from schools.
33:57Yeah, it is. So that's why we're at the intersection of gaming and education.
34:02So our business model ensures that the games are free for children, the end beneficiary.
34:06But we charge £20 per year for a turbo GCSE game.
34:11Are you charging £20 a year too?
34:13The client will be the parent for the GCSEs, because where they buy revision textbooks, exam questions, that sort of thing, this is a supplemental tool.
34:24And then we've just finished building our CreatorSpark, which was funded by £350,000 Innovate Smart grant.
34:32And the USP around that is that it allows educators to go in and track how well a player is doing.
34:39So that subscription is being sold to schools.
34:42Do you know what my concern is? My concern is there's been a lot of grants, but is there any evidence of a business model here?
34:49Yeah, I think it's a very valid concern.
34:51We're pre-revenue, and we have been in two years of very deep R&D, and we now need to pivot and really start selling our subscriptions.
35:00And with the games industry, it is slightly different in that the production cycle does take longer, but when you release, it can be explosive.
35:09So this is a different business model.
35:13A really dear friend of mine heads up one of the gaming teams in Sony, and she describes this,
35:20we're just developing, developing, developing, developing, and who knows why, suddenly one of those games absolutely blows up,
35:26and the others just never see the light of day.
35:30So, at what point do you think this is going to go live?
35:33So we're working on the bundle of five games on the core platform by winter, but we are also releasing the games separately as standalone subjects.
35:42So we will release Climate Spark just as a single standalone app in the App Store, but it will be exactly the same content as will be on the whole platform as well.
35:52OK, I'm glad I'm unpicking this, because this is becoming a little bit clearer.
35:55So over here, you've got the big platform with a load of topics on it, and that you're going to sell into education?
36:02Yeah, primarily local authorities and schools and teachers, and the kids will be beneficial.
36:07Then over here, you've got lots of individual topics that are going to be on the App Store, and if you're a parent and you want your child to get familiar with climate change,
36:16you're going to download, download.
36:18Have I got it?
36:19You absolutely have.
36:20OK, that's it.
36:23Rita, hi.
36:25Do you know my background in this market?
36:27I do.
36:28OK.
36:28Well, to a degree, yeah.
36:30I just want to explain it.
36:32I've got quite a huge level of humility, but I'm explaining it because I think you need to know.
36:36The irony of saying I've got a huge level of humility, that's quite ironic.
36:41And that's why also I'm putting it out there, because there's no other dragon that has the background in this sector than me.
36:47In fact, I was the lead advisor in government about this subject.
36:51And I created Britain's first enterprise entrepreneurship qualification as well.
36:55Where have that?
36:56Teaching young people enterprise and education.
36:59The software that we use, that we've developed, I could class it as a game, because they do go into certain elements of learning.
37:09It's all driven by technology.
37:12But I do this through a charity.
37:13And we've struggled to get schools to pay.
37:17We've struggled to get even, would you believe, parents to pay.
37:20And we've ended up paying.
37:24Because we think it's important.
37:26Yeah, I mean, that's why I've just gone on with it and done it myself.
37:29I know, and that's why I'm so, I so admire you.
37:32I really do.
37:32I think you're a leading light in this.
37:34Thank you very much.
37:36But the only way that this can happen is in an embedment in our national curriculum.
37:41But I can tell you, I've been doing this since 2009, and I have been relentless.
37:48And I have still not succeeded in embedding it in the national curriculum.
37:51And I'm talking about enterprise and entrepreneurship, by the way.
37:55And I wouldn't say give up, but I think it's really tough.
37:59So for that reason, I'm out.
38:01Okay.
38:04So I have quite an interesting background in gaming.
38:09In fact, I actually think my business was built on the success of us launching a game.
38:15And we went on to do another game, which didn't do as well, to Debra's point, that it is hit and miss.
38:19And it's hard to know because the mechanics of that game were identical.
38:24And as an investment, there's something missing.
38:28And it is that commercialization.
38:31There's a possibility, but that is heavily based on fortune and hitting zeitgeist.
38:37There's just too many question marks in my head for how we get there.
38:41But I'm going to say that I'm out.
38:42But I wish you the best.
38:43Thank you very much.
38:44I appreciate that.
38:44So, um, you're good.
38:54And you're doing an important thing.
38:58Which bits of that sound like something that I wouldn't want to be involved in?
39:03So I'm involved with a business that sells into 6,000 schools, um, already.
39:09And I know very well the, um, founder of Mumsnet, who gives you a great network in terms of reaching out.
39:16And I know this would be right up there.
39:18Why wouldn't it be?
39:19You know, she wants to do good things.
39:20So, yes, I'm going to offer you, I'm going to offer you all of the money.
39:27I'm going to offer you the 10,000 pounds, um, for the ask.
39:31So for 1% of the business.
39:34Thank you, Debra.
39:35I'll tell you what I think, Debra.
39:41OK.
39:41I think you've got something here.
39:43Because I am absolutely in that space you talk about.
39:46My kids are 7 and 10.
39:48And I can understand, as a parent, why I would be encouraging them to use this.
39:53And actually, I think your chance of success is far greater if you do have a Dragon on board.
39:59Yeah.
39:59Because you do need a lot of help with that commercialisation.
40:02But you've got real vision and purpose.
40:05And I have that shared vision and purpose that you do.
40:08So I'm going to make you an offer.
40:10For the 10,000 pounds you've offered, for the 1%, I'll join you on this journey.
40:17Um, look, you're very credible.
40:22You've put up 470,000 of your own money.
40:26You've given up a very lucrative job.
40:29And I respect you for that.
40:31And I think, I'm sure you've had sleepless nights.
40:36I have.
40:38Look, I do admire you.
40:41Thank you very much.
40:41And I respect you a lot.
40:42But I can't do it for 1%.
40:44What I can do is talk about giving you some office space for six months.
40:52You'd be sitting right next to my office, so on a constant input basis, bouncing off ideas.
41:01So I would give you the whole 10,000, but I want 5%.
41:05And for that, I think I would give you more time than I would normally give anybody else.
41:11Okay.
41:12So I just really want to thank you all for your feedback.
41:21And I really would love to have all three of the dragons, if that's at all possible.
41:26And I wonder if there's any way that you would consider the 1% rather than the 5% for the 10,000 pounds.
41:36Because I do feel it's a really fair offer.
41:40It is a fair offer.
41:43If I'm going to be a semi-passive investor.
41:46And you've got two great offers here.
41:48Yeah.
41:48And I'm going to say, and all due respect, they can both deliver, you know, but you won't see them every day.
41:55It's a slight difference.
41:56That's what I'm offering.
42:03So I'd really like to accept both offers.
42:07If you would consider both investing 10,000 each and taking 1% each.
42:14Absolutely.
42:15If Tuukka would consider doing the same.
42:27Why not?
42:28Go on.
42:29Amazing.
42:30Amazing.
42:31Well done.
42:34Brilliant.
42:35A right result for Rida.
42:38Well done.
42:38Well done.
42:39Well done.
42:40Congrats.
42:40Who departs with 30,000 pounds.
42:43How to slay a dragon or three.
42:47And the backing of a trio of dragons.
42:51One of whom was convinced into breaking his number one rule in the den.
42:55I couldn't say no.
42:59You couldn't say no.
43:00That's your new slogan.
43:01I do get out of bed for 1%.
43:03Like she's broken the curse.
43:05But you know something?
43:06She's put a lot of her own money into this.
43:09And I admire what she's doing.
43:12I'm feeling relieved and over the moon.
43:15And I did not expect this result at all.
43:19But I'm really, really excited to see how quickly we can scale and grow now.
43:24Hi, I'm Rebecca.
43:34Hi, I'm Sophie.
43:48We are former flatmates, university friends and business partners from London.
43:55Sophie and I flat shared for years together and with other friends.
43:59And having seen when sometimes it goes wrong, we wanted to find a better way for people to flat share.
44:07But Rebecca and Sophie aren't just business partners.
44:10They're also besties.
44:12It's actually really, really helpful because it means that the first step before we might disagree with something is always kindness and forgiveness rather than wanting to jump in.
44:28I feel very, very lucky to do the one thing I feel most passionate about with someone I love.
44:42Hi, I'm Rebecca.
44:45I'm Sophie.
44:46And together we bring you Mates Place, a revolutionary app that's changing the private rental market.
44:54Now, young people today have been termed generation rent.
44:57They've been priced out of the property market and they're living in rented, often shared rented accommodation for longer than ever before.
45:04But flat sharing comes with its own set of problems.
45:06There aren't enough properties on the market, there are fraudulent listings and potentially, worst of all, there's nightmare flatmates.
45:14A few years ago, I was flat sharing, like many others do.
45:18I found my flatmate online.
45:20Unfortunately, after a few months of not paying rent, he disappeared in the night with a load of my belongings.
45:26It turns out he'd lied about where he worked and changed his contact details.
45:30And with no friends in common, he was untraceable.
45:33So on the realisation that I wanted the safety and trust that comes from living with friends or friends of friends, rather than complete strangers, Mates Place was born.
45:47It's an app on which anyone can list their properties or search for available rooms.
45:53And through their phone contacts, it shows them if they have mutual friends in common with a potential housemate.
46:00And that way, their mates do the vetting for them, such as, will we get on?
46:06Will they pay the rent on time?
46:07Are they trustworthy?
46:09Since we launched the app three years ago, we've now passed 100,000 downloads.
46:14We have between 700 and 900 rooms live at any given time.
46:18And although most of them are concentrated in London at the moment, we have presence in 14 major cities in the UK.
46:23Now, the app is free for anyone to download and use.
46:26But in January, we launched a paid version that gives users access to premium features.
46:31And we have big plans for Mates Place.
46:33So we are looking for £100,000 for 5% of the business, which will allow us to build out new features and rapidly scale up marketing to reach new customers.
46:42And we welcome any questions.
46:43A smartphone app which gives users the peace of mind that comes from living with mutual acquaintances is the eureka moment of Rebecca Mool and Sophie Emler.
46:57The pair are seeking £100,000 in return for 5% of their business.
47:04Deborah Meaden is first to explore the proposition in more depth.
47:07Rebecca, Sophie, hi.
47:14Can I?
47:15I'm not completely sure I understand your model.
47:20I know what you're doing.
47:22I'm just trying to work out the piece that says that you're actually searching through people's contacts to find somebody they know.
47:31So can you explain that bit to me?
47:34How does that work?
47:35So when you sign up on the app, we ask for your name, your phone number, email address and password, standard create an account.
47:43Then when you go into the app, it'll ask permission to see your contacts.
47:47So if one of your friends in your phone book is already a user on the app, they'll be added as a friend within the app.
47:53And that is termed a first degree connection.
47:55And then their friends in the app, a second degree connection.
47:58And we go up to third because we feel that's about as far as a sort of social network really extends.
48:02And why does that give me security?
48:06So you are able to trace.
48:08So you can, if you look for a room, you can define which level of connection you're comfortable with.
48:13So first level would tell you exactly who the friend is.
48:16Second, you can click and see which friends you have in common.
48:19Third, we don't give exactly the details, but there's some comfort in knowing they're within your social network.
48:27Rebecca, Sophie, it comes across as a great concept.
48:31But you mentioned at the start that your experience that you had, which wasn't great, and you didn't know the person.
48:38Is that really atypical, though?
48:40Because I thought most people would go to an agency, and the agency will take out employment references.
48:46The agency might do a DBS check.
48:48They'll also give you a reference from the previous landlord.
48:51So you're taking very limited risk by dealing with an agency.
48:57But my phone book could be full of, you know, not very nice people.
49:02So how do you, what's your check specifically?
49:05And give me the reason why you're different.
49:08The difference is a lot of people have a lead tenant on a let.
49:13So there's six of you living together.
49:14One of you is listed as lead tenant, and they sign a lot of the paperwork.
49:18But you have people moving in and out of that flat who the agencies, they might never see, they don't know about.
49:24So actually, I think the flat share market is hugely unseen by agents.
49:31Yeah, but what are the checks you're doing, though?
49:34So, well, I would be asking through my friends, like,
49:37do you know this person?
49:38Yeah, I think that's a problem.
49:40Okay.
49:41I would want to have a check on their reference.
49:43You want to take a reference on them.
49:44You want to have an employment check.
49:46That's just not how it works, though, is it?
49:47No, I agree.
49:49I think we're flat sharing.
49:49The reason I know this is because I lived in Manchester for two years on the basis of what you just said.
49:54Just room hopping.
49:56You know, and I actually do think that the strongest point of reference for me would be knowing someone that knows you and being able to have a conversation with them.
50:03So the idea, I get it.
50:05So let's get into these metrics, then.
50:08Yep.
50:09You said you had 100,000 downloads.
50:11Why are you getting nervous?
50:12Where are we?
50:12Sorry?
50:12You look like you were getting nervous.
50:14You said you had 100,000.
50:14This is Sophie's fun bit.
50:15She loves the data.
50:17Can you tell me what your key metrics are?
50:18What metrics are you guys obsessing over every week, month?
50:21So we do track things like we know the average usage is around 24 minutes for the app and a single session, the early sessions is about four to five minutes.
50:29So that first session is really key to getting someone to interact.
50:32They tend to tail off quite rapidly.
50:35So 14, 15 days is about the average.
50:38In terms of cohort retention, if you acquired 100 users today, 12 months from now, how many of them would still be using the app?
50:44Most likely, we would still have 90% of their accounts, but actively using very few of them.
50:51How many roughly do you think?
50:54I think probably five to 10%, but the issue is that a lot of them would then be maybe a repeat user within the year because then their tendency comes up within a year, they go to find something else.
51:04And so with all their details on there, they're already on the app and have their connection.
51:09It's like a dating app.
51:11Get a good date and then come back later.
51:15Rebecca and Sophie, so what do you charge?
51:21So we have, it's a premium, so premium tier starts at seven days for $9.99, 14 days for $14.99 and then 28 days for $24.99.
51:34Can I say so, guys, you're going to be thinking much bigger than this?
51:40Because what worries me is your business model.
51:44Because you're going to go a long way and it's like a lot of money.
51:46You've got to add a lot more features to this app to actually be a credible business.
51:53Yeah, but alongside that, we are looking at various other avenues for revenue.
52:00One is just around, we're maintaining it around the flats.
52:03But also I think we're looking at exploring recommendations for other services.
52:06We've been approached for our Facebook group about listing for cleaners and for removal firms.
52:14So there's all sorts of businesses where people would like a personal recommendation.
52:18So if, say, I wanted a plumber, I'm likely to call my friend and say,
52:21do you know anyone trustworthy? Because I don't want to get scammed.
52:24I go online and I look at a review. I don't trust those reviews.
52:27I don't know who was paid to write them.
52:28But if my friend has used that person, I'm more likely...
52:30So you're going to charge the plumber to list themselves on or you won't charge them anything?
52:35So we would likely let them list and then we would look and see,
52:38probably explore, say, kickbacks for referrals.
52:42I think you've got something and yet it's like a jigsaw that's not complete.
52:51And I'm involved in co-living.
52:54I'm on the board of a...
52:56We just launched in Battersea at 1,400 a month.
53:00Which is all the amenities.
53:03So could you eventually reverse the business and have people advertise in rooms where you get a commission?
53:13Could that be another string to your bow?
53:16Yeah, it's something we certainly...
53:17We had an initial conversation with a co-living business who were interested in exploring that.
53:22Yeah.
53:23I mean, co-living is definitely an easy add-on.
53:26Yeah, yeah.
53:27You could think about, you know...
53:30When I look at businesses like this, my big concern is if I put in 100k today, that 100k basically will be down the hole by the end of the year.
53:41And with technology, you do need to be well capitalized.
53:46Because when you launch technology, as you know, you launch it with a hypothesis.
53:50And the hypothesis is nearly always wrong.
53:53And you smell your way to the right product market fit.
53:57And I just think this is still pretty insecure because you've got some pivoting to do.
54:04And I don't know if we've got the cash and the time.
54:06So I'm going to say that I'm out.
54:08I think I'm kind of similar.
54:17I think you've...
54:18You both are really impressive.
54:21You really are.
54:22But in terms of the business and what you've pitched, it's going to come back to one thing.
54:29You need money.
54:31And a lot more money.
54:33So I'm going to have to say that I'm out.
54:38Guys, I'll tell you where I'm at.
54:40It's complicated.
54:44It feels high risk.
54:45It feels like there's lots of different business opportunities going on.
54:48You haven't really convinced me of it.
54:51So I'm going to say I'm out.
54:57So, for me, there's something not quite...
55:03That I've got to...
55:05I've described this many times.
55:06Row of switches, lots of questions.
55:08You come across really well.
55:10Very, very impressive.
55:12And you have held me in here longer than I think I might have been if it was presented by somebody else.
55:18So that's all great.
55:21However, there is the last switch that isn't somehow working for me.
55:27So I wish you all the best, but I'm out.
55:32Hi, guys.
55:33I've been on the fence.
55:34I'm trying to explore in my head.
55:41What you've pitched is not investable.
55:42But at the same time, I don't want to remake your strategy.
55:49And that's the problem in my head.
55:52Because I think what you've pitched, you're going to struggle.
55:55However, what you're building as a community is valuable.
56:04And I'm very willing to give you a lifeline to see whether another part of the business can be attached or not.
56:12However, there's a price.
56:18I'd give you all of the money.
56:21A hundred grand, but I want 20%.
56:23I think we came in with some very firm boundaries between us.
56:42And 20% definitely wasn't in there at all.
56:45But we really respect what you've said about us and the platform of the business and the community.
56:57And we're really flattered that you want to give us a chance to try and make it work.
57:03So, we would like to accept your offer.
57:07Great!
57:07Yay!
57:10Success for Rebecca and Sophie.
57:13Thank you so much.
57:14Great.
57:15Who leave the den with £100,000.
57:19Congratulations.
57:20Congratulations.
57:21Well done.
57:22And the backing of a dragon with the expertise to help their property app turn big profits.
57:28We're so pleased to have someone with Tuka's experience on board.
57:36Yeah, he seems really invested in us and seems to believe in us.
57:40So, it's an amazing opportunity.
57:42Well done, Tuka.
57:42I think you've got two great, great entrepreneurs there.
57:47Next time.
58:02I hope they tell me that I was wrong.
58:06I would love to be right.
58:07And these guys would never live it down if I am.
58:10You've remortgaged your houses.
58:12Yeah, yeah.
58:13Flabber is gusted.
58:14What's the strategy?
58:15Get a dragon.
58:16There's no doubt that you're here for me.
58:19Surprise, surprise.
58:23A sensitive subject in safe hands.
58:26Well, that was the plan.
58:28How are you?
58:28It's Alan Partridge on BBC iPlayer now.
58:31Next, though, it's all lies, suspicions and distrust.
58:34Oh, how we love it.
58:35Fate will take its course in the celebrity traces.
58:46It's Alan Partridge on BBC iPlayer now.
58:47It's Alan Partridge on BBC iPlayer now.
58:48It's Alan Partridge on BBC iPlayer now.
58:49It's Alan Partridge on BBC iPlayer now.
58:50It's Alan Partridge on BBC iPlayer now.
58:50It's Alan Partridge on BBC iPlayer now.
58:51It's Alan Partridge on BBC iPlayer now.
58:52It's Alan Partridge on BBC iPlayer now.
58:53It's Alan Partridge on BBC iPlayer now.
58:54It's Alan Partridge on BBC iPlayer now.
58:55It's Alan Partridge on BBC iPlayer now.
58:56It's Alan Partridge on BBC iPlayer now.
58:57It's Alan Partridge on BBC iPlayer now.
58:58It's Alan Partridge on BBC iPlayer now.
58:59It's Alan Partridge on BBC iPlayer now.
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