- 40 minutes ago
A political confrontation has emerged between the Bharatiya Janata Party and the Samajwadi Party in Uttar Pradesh ahead of the 2027 Assembly elections, triggered by campaign posters featuring party chief Akhilesh Yadav alongside Lord Krishna with the slogan '27 Mein Krishna Aayenge'.
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00:00Hello and welcome, wish you a very happy Dhanteras. I'm Gaurav Savant, you're watching a special edition of India First.
00:07And our top focus story on this broadcast is a holy war of sorts between the BJP and the Samajwadi
00:15Party in Uttar Pradesh over a poster that's gone absolutely viral.
00:20You have the Samajwadi Party poster that says, 27 May Krishna Aayenge.
00:26Now, the BJP has launched a frontal attack on the Samajwadi Party saying, 27 May Krishna Aayenge.
00:34So will the Samajwadi Party actually join hands with the BJP and speak of a Divya Bhavya Shri Krishna Mandir
00:43at the Shri Krishna Jan Bhoomi at Mathura so that everyone can together work for a Krishna Jan Bhoomi Mandir.
00:51The Samajwadi Party has hit back saying, for the Bharatiya Janta Party, whether it was the Ram Mandir at Ayodhya
00:58or the Shri Krishna Mandir at Jan Bhoomi Mandir in Mathura, it's all about pole rhetoric.
01:05They are hitting back at the BJP for the statements of a Katha Wachak, a popular Katha Wachak.
01:14Now, that's the counter poster that's been put out by the Bharatiya Janta Party.
01:18Words to the effect,
01:24And this has led to another war of words.
01:28The statement of a Katha Wachak has been in the line of fire of the Samajwadi Party.
01:34Many see this as Akhilesh Yadav and the Samajwadi Party trying to consolidate a very strong Yaduvanshi vote bank behind
01:44them.
01:45But then they already have that vote bank.
01:47Will it help them increase it further?
01:492027 is being seen as a make or break battle for the Samajwadi Party, for the Bharatiya Janta Party.
01:58After 10 years of ruling Uttar Pradesh from 2017 to 22 and 22 to 27, it will be a massive
02:07challenge.
02:08Fight anti-incumbency, fight a series of allegations, including about the pilferage of donation at the Shri Ram Temple at
02:16Ayodhya.
02:16And of course, now, the challenges that are being posed by the Samajwadi Party and the Congress.
02:22We'll talk about this in greater detail.
02:24But first, listen in to the intense war of words between the BJP and the Samajwadi Party.
02:31The poster war, the holy war for 2027.
02:46This was the first time of year and the Samajwadi Party, the shriek of the Shri Ram Temple.
03:29In 2027, Shri Krishna will come in 2027 and this is a poster
03:38that's being put up by the Samajwadi party as you see in the poster emphatically not just showing
03:44Yogeshwar Shri Krishna but also the Samajwadi party's supremo Akhilesh Yadav. Now is the Samajwadi
03:53party batting on a pitch which is seen as favourable to the BJP or perceived to be favourable to the
04:01BJP?
04:02It's a very aggressive move. How should one perceive this 2027 battle? Joining me on this India first
04:10special broadcast is Ghancham Tiwari, national spokesperson of the Samajwadi party. Dr.
04:14Kaushal Kant Mishra is national spokesperson of the BJP. Professor Sangeet Ragi's author and political
04:19analyst joins us on the show as does Ashutosh, author and political analyst. Dr. Mishra,
04:25Samajwadi party is challenging you on your own turf. Akhilesh Yadav says in 2027 mein Shri Krishna
04:33aayenge. Posters with Shri Krishna and Akhilesh Yadav. Does that make the BJP nervous? The Samajwadi
04:40party batting on the front foot on the Hindutva pitch, sir. Gaurav, first of all, I would like to ask
04:47my friend from Samajwadi party whether he agrees what is written in this poster.
04:57Is Samajwadi party saying that before that 2027 Krishna is not there? Because they feel Krishna
05:04is not there. Why? If we go through the history of Samajwadi party, Samajwadi party bains Kamad Yatra, Samajwadi
05:13Samajwadi party bains 84 kosi parikrama. Samajwadi, Gaurav, I don't know whether you know or
05:20don't know. In Uttar Pradesh, whenever there is Janmashtami, Krishna Janmashtami, in every
05:26police station it was celebrated like a big festival of whole police station. When the Samajwadi
05:32party came, this function has been stopped officially by Mr. Muralayam Singh Yadav and Akhilesh Yadav
05:38people simultaneously. And what is their history? First, we should go to the history of Samajwadi
05:45party.
05:45Let's take this point by point. You've raised some pertinent points. Let's keep this
05:48conversational. Ghancham Tiwari, the BJP asks, do you actually believe 27 mein Krishna ayenge?
05:54And does that mean that Lord Krishna wasn't there earlier? Is the Samajwadi party now batting
06:00on a different pitch, sir?
06:02Good evening. One of to you, the viewers and the fellow co-panelists and a very happy
06:06dhanteras and very happy Diwali to everyone who is watching this. There are three important
06:10things. One is the poster itself. The poster itself is the poster that communicates the
06:15message that BJP has stolen the idea of Hindu religion from people. They have stolen from
06:21the Ram temple, Chanda and Chadhava. They are now stealing from the faith by enabling people
06:27like Bhagavad-sha Sarkar to create differences and hatred between Ram and Krishna. And it
06:34is clear that Bhagavad-sha Sarkar is BJP, BJP is Bhagavad-sha Sarkar. They stand for one another.
06:39There's no doubt about it. Now coming to the poster, the poster communicates that message
06:44and this poster has become public narrative. It communicates that message cleanly. If you compare
06:49this with the BJP poster, it is shameful and tragic that that poster shows Mr. Modi as Ram
06:55and it shows Adityanath as Krishna. Neither Ram was accused of any riots as Mr. Modi was accused
07:02of his inability in the Gujarat riots, nor Krishna was accused of any criminal charges like Mr. Yogi
07:09was accused of till he whitewashed his own criminal charges. And a man like Yogi Adityanath cannot be a
07:14true Yogi, given his track record. Dr. Bishra, quickly respond before I bring in our
07:20analysts on this, that the BJP may have tried to use, you know, faith for electoral gains.
07:29The allegation of Chadhava Chori is what the Samajwadi Party raises, sir.
07:36Gauro, for us, Ram, Krishna is not, is for politics. They are our faith. They are our
07:43motto. They are our basic fundamental of all Bharti Janta Party, that we stick to our ideology.
07:50Our ideology is Ram and Krishna both. And everything, whatever is the history, whatever is the
07:56past, whatever the Sanatan Dharma, everything is history. But what is the history of Samajwadi
08:00Party? Few examples, few latest examples. Swami Prasad Bahurya is writing his own Ram Charit
08:08Manas. At that time, he was promoted as the general secretary of Samajwadi Party. If Samajwadi
08:14Party is printing that Ram Charit Manas or not. Second, what was the slogan?
08:18Lok Tantra ki dekho shan bandi bane huye bhagwan. At that time, when Naam Trampil was not built.
08:23Third, mille mulayam kasi ram hawa me olga jai shi ram. Fourth, they always defy Ram and Krishna.
08:32This is first time when they are trying to divide the Hindus between Ram and Krishna. That is what the
08:48Samajwadi Party's own member, saying that yadwas are not Hindu. Samajwadi Party leader
08:55commenter raises eyebrows. And his name is Sivaraj Singh Yadav. It is from Samajwadi Party.
09:01They always, because they support whom? DMK. What the DMK's ideology is? Destroy the Hindutva. Destroy the
09:11Sanatana Dharma. Eradication of Sanatana Dharma. According to them, dengue, malaria, AIDS,
09:18and none of the time, even BJP, even Samajwadi Party leader or any spokesperson, defined that
09:25this is wrong. They supported this system. And how come today?
09:28Fair enough. Ghansham Tiwari wants to respond because Ghansham Tiwari, the BJP says,
09:34will the Samajwadi Party endorse the construction of a beautiful, magnificent Shri Krishna temple
09:43at the Janmsthan, sir? Gaurav, two things. You've been in debates for long and a journalist
09:50for long. When a party spokesperson throws kitchen sink at you, kitchen sink of unrelated arguments,
09:57then it means that they are in deep soup. And the reason they are in deep soup is people
10:03on the ground believe that BJP cannot provide anything that they promise. They cannot provide
10:06respect for the Hindu religion. They cannot provide livelihood. They cannot provide harmony
10:12in society. They cannot provide anything to the farmers. They cannot provide good government.
10:16And they cannot provide politicians who are not criminals. So that is what the common man today
10:21sees in BJP, a party that continuously fails them on every promise and cheats them on every
10:26promise. So as a result, BJP spokesperson is throwing kitchen sink. As far as your question
10:31about temple is concerned, our stand has been clear and it is the courts that will decide.
10:36Respond to a very pertinent point that's being raised by the Samajwadi Party spokesperson
10:41Ghansham Tiwari. He says, because there is nothing else to talk about, the BJP and those close
10:48to it raise the issue of temple, Shri Ram and Shri Krishna. It shows that desperation in 2027 elections.
10:57Gaurav, who is supposed to start discussing? Gaurav, thank you and very good evening to all the panelists.
11:06First of all, I think that there is a credibility loss of the Samajwadi Party. Credibility deficit, I would say,
11:15in respect of Samajwadi Party when it comes to the Sanatan issues, whether it is Kasi or it is Ajodhya
11:21or the Mathura.
11:25We should not forget that it was Samajwadi Party government which has banned the puja in Kasi on the specific
11:35site which they declared to be part of the masjid.
11:40Second, something is said that this will make the Muslim vote bank jittery when the soft Hindutta would be peddled
11:52by the Samajwadi Party.
11:54I would suggest that this is not a right turf for you because here there are several batsmen, one down,
12:01two down, three down, from Yogi Adityanath to Pradhan Mantri.
12:04There are so many players here, you equate it with the volleyball play or the cricket play, one down, two
12:18down, three down.
12:19There are so many batsmen who are far, far better than even the captain of Samajwadi Party when it comes
12:26to the Hindutva pitch.
12:28So I don't think that the Samajwadi Party will be able to compete with the BJP on this issue.
12:34Very interesting point, Ashutosh, you will quickly respond to this point.
12:37Third thing, third thing, third thing.
12:38So let's take this point by point.
12:40Sir, it will be a lot more. Point by point.
12:42Ashutosh, very interesting point raised by Professor Raghi.
12:46Samajwadi Party is batting on a very dangerous pitch.
12:50BJP has big hitters on the Hindutva pitch.
12:54Samajwadi Party may just lose its own vote bank if they play on this pitch.
12:59Respond, Ashutosh.
13:01You see, Gaurav, most of the time I disagree with my friend Sangeet Raghi, but today I partly agree with
13:07him that the Samajwadi Party probably committing a mistake and probably trapping himself as the trap is laid by the
13:15BJP itself.
13:16The Hindutva is not a pitch on which the Samajwadi Party can play and get a century on this.
13:22If you look at the BJP, Samajwadi Party's vote share, in 2012, Samajwadi Party got 29% vote share and
13:29have a comfortable majority in the assembly and from the government, 29% vote share.
13:33If you look at in 2022, the Samajwadi Party gets 32%, increase of 3% vote share.
13:39And in 2024, it further increases to 34% vote share.
13:43And in 2022 and 2024, Samajwadi Party did not play on the Hindutva pitch.
13:48Their pitch is social justice and OBC politics and the Dalit politics.
13:54PDA politics.
13:55Basically, the PDA politics.
13:58And BJP wants them to play on this particular pitch.
14:04Let me remind my friend where I disagree with Sangeet on this issue.
14:09The issue is, despite having the two of the greatest exponents of Hindutva politics, and despite being Ayodhya, Shira, Krishna
14:17Janma Bhumi and Kashi,
14:19Bharati Janata Party could not get more than 33 seats.
14:23And in that time, in 2024, the Samajwadi Party was playing save the constitution campaign, save reservation campaign.
14:31Very interesting point. Absolutely. Point taken.
14:34Before I bring in Ghansham Tiwari and Dr. Mishra, I quickly want Sangeet Ragi to respond to this.
14:38That, you know, BJP in 2024 came down to 33.
14:43Samajwadi Party Congress on the PDA point is way ahead, sir.
14:49I completely agree with Asutos.
14:52The strength of the Samajwadi Party...
14:54Sir Raj, what are you doing? Both of you are agreeing.
14:56How will it go?
14:56The strength of Samajwadi Party lies in caste politics, better, you know, packaged in the, you know, in terms of
15:08social justice.
15:09But it is completely a caste equation and caste politics.
15:13The strength of Bharatiya Janata Party is Hindutva, so that all the castes come under the one umbrella.
15:20The Samajwadi Party would like to break it in all sense of term.
15:26Okay.
15:26When Bageswar Maharaj comes to Uttar Pradesh, and I have come to know that six kathas are to be organized
15:37there.
15:38And every katha has almost 10 to 12 lakhs, you know, audience.
15:42So he is going to address 72 lakhs, you know, the devotees in Uttar Pradesh in times to come.
15:50This is what's making Akhlesh Jado jittery.
15:56That he finds what has happened in Bengal, what happened in, you know, Vyad.
16:04This is creating trouble for them.
16:06And that's why, that's why today, see the, you know, the tweet of Akhlesh Jado.
16:12Okay.
16:12He is, in a way, threatening to the people who are organizing Bageswar Dham Katha, including Rajabhaiya.
16:20Very interesting. Very interesting.
16:22Okay.
16:22Ghansham Tiwari, I have to come to you and Dr. Mishra.
16:25But Ashutosh, once 10 seconds.
16:28Sir, come in, Ashutosh.
16:29See, Gaurav, I think, Akhlesh Jado is thinking that there is a sum that Brahmins are not happy with the
16:37BJP.
16:38But let me tell you, the Brahmins in 2022 Parliament Assembly election, 89% of the Brahmins has voted for
16:46the BJP.
16:47And you know, the best, best strike rate, best strike rate, best strike rate of Samadwadi party was 12%
16:55in 2012 Assembly elections.
16:57So even if their best strike rate is only 12%, so they should not thinking that they, since Brahmins are
17:02little upset with the BJP,
17:04so the Brahmins will vote for the Samadwadi party.
17:06That is not going to happen.
17:07Their original pitch is PDA and they should stick to that.
17:10Okay.
17:10Ghansham Tiwari, 4 frontal attacks are on both sides.
17:14I mean, Brahmins cannot opt for khai.
17:19Brahmins cannot opt for khai.
17:22They can opt for a bell.
17:26Okay.
17:27I mean, where is the khai?
17:29But Ghansham Tiwari quickly responds, sir.
17:32Four quick points.
17:33One is that it is good that BJP's spokesperson and RSS spokesperson accept that Diren Shasri...
17:39I am not the spokesperson of the RSS.
17:40Don't, don't, I am a political analyst.
17:42Or RSS analyst accept that Diren Shasri is the spokesperson, is the brand ambassador of BJP.
17:49Which means that what he says, BJP has to own it and people are already talking about it.
17:53Second is, it's not about the pitch.
17:55It is not as if BJP laid a bait by asking Diren Shasri to give these speeches about differences and
18:01gods and disrespecting gods.
18:02It is also not that BJP laid a bait by telling PMO's people and Prime Minister's appointed people to take
18:09away CCTV, enable a massive chadhava churi in Ayodhya temple, in the Ram temple and then not respond to it.
18:17Okay.
18:18These are not bait.
18:19These are common issues.
18:20People talk about it.
18:21When Kaushal Mishra, Sangeet Rai go and speak to any person in Uttar Pradesh or across the country and they
18:26say, do you appreciate that under the watch of Prime Minister, under the watch of Yogi Adityanath, their people stole
18:31the chadhava of 45 crore people who believed in Bhagavan Ram and went to the temple.
18:36Nobody will support BJP on that.
18:38So, we have to raise this question and it is not about going to their pitch.
18:41Fair enough.
18:41Will Dr. Mishra respond?
18:42Dr. Mishra respond?
18:45Just 10 seconds.
18:46Just 10 seconds.
18:46Let me bring in Dr. Mishra, then I am coming to you, sir.
18:49Dr. Mishra, quickly respond to the point that it's not BJP's pitch.
18:53It's a pitch.
18:54The Samajwadi Party is very confident batting on it.
18:57And the BJP is on the defensive because of statements of Baba Bageshwar and also the Ram Mandir donation pilferage,
19:04sir.
19:05Gaurav, I don't feel that BJP is supporting whatever Baba Bageshwar said.
19:13So, I don't know from where Ganshyam Tiwari ji heard that I said that I follow BJP, follow Baba Bageshwar.
19:20It's wrong.
19:21Whosoever is wrong is wrong.
19:23Whosoever is dividing the Hindu society based on anything, whether it is caste, whether it is God.
19:28Because this is the same Samajwadi Party who has not spoken anything against DMK.
19:33When they say the Shiv is there and Ram is not there, then Samajwadi Party is just keeping
19:38one more thing.
19:40This is the same Samajwadi Party.
19:42In last election, it is Times of India report that Mathura Nakasi, Mathura Nakasi,
19:48Ayodhya mein kaon, ye sapne nara suna hua hai.
19:51So, this is the real character of Samajwadi Party.
19:55Samajwadi Party is acting like Kaal Nemi for the Hindus of the country.
20:00Nothing more than that.
20:01A grave charge to level.
20:03Yes.
20:04Because it is correct.
20:05Because there is a list of documentation, series of statements, series of slogans made
20:11by Samajwadi Party that they are against the Hindus, against the unification of the Hindus.
20:16Last thing over 10 seconds, when the Hindus are divided on the basis of caste, they become
20:22secular.
20:23But when the Hindu caste becomes united, the party becomes communal.
20:28Okay.
20:29This is the hypocrisy of this Indian politics and those who do politics on the caste and
20:35politics on the religion.
20:36What is the factor for Samajwadi Party?
20:39It is MY factor.
20:40World loan structure.
20:43MY.
20:43Okay.
20:44Ghanshantewari wants to respond.
20:45No.
20:46But Ghanshantewari wants to respond.
20:47And Ghanshantewari, in the past 10 years, two elections, 2017 and 22, just the MY factor
20:55did not bring Samajwadi Party to par.
21:00Is this why this Shri Krishna Aayenge Sattaisme pitch to get the Brahmans that Ashutosh says
21:08indicates are unhappy with the BJP or may be unhappy with the BJP?
21:13So, in case some of those, if there's a divide, then that's advantage Samajwadi Party and
21:19then it brings Samajwadi Party and Congress to par, sir.
21:23Gaurav, if Adityanath and BJP can call the Shankaracharya Kalnemi, it is no surprise that
21:30they call anybody Kalnemi.
21:32Right?
21:32If they can beat the followers of Shankaracharya brutally, holding their chutia in front of
21:40the people, they can go to any level to prove their superiority in matters of faith, which
21:46is not proven.
21:47No, Kansh was not superior to Krishna.
21:50BJP has a choice to be Kansh in this election, which is between Kansh and Krishna.
21:54And it is people of Uttar Pradesh who will decide that 27 men Kansh aayenge or Krishna aayenge.
22:06Now, with respect to what Ashutosh said, it is not about Brahmin vote, not Brahmin vote.
22:11The underlying issue, which is livelihood.
22:13You look at Uttar Pradesh, the cost of living is so high.
22:15You see what is happening across the world with cost of living.
22:18There's no response BJP can offer.
22:19Apart from this ritualization and showing Adityanath as Krishna and Modi as...
22:26Sir, Yogi Adityanath on this broadcast would respect, you know, everybody should be respected.
22:31But if you do not want to respect, you know, a seer, a saint, because he is chief minister,
22:37be that as it may, Dr. Mishra wants to respond to you before I bring in Ashutosh and Professor Raghi.
22:43Gauru, only one single question.
22:45Since the establishment of Samajwadi Party till today.
22:49Show me any leader going to either Mathura or Ram Mandir.
22:53Just one thing.
22:55Whole country, whole world will have faith on Samajwadi Party,
22:59if they can show their main leader going to either Mathura or Ram Mandir.
23:04Okay.
23:05Is that a cause for concern?
23:07Again, you know, 30 seconds, Ghansham Tiwari.
23:09Is that a cause for concern?
23:10Because the BJP has repeatedly raised this, that Akhilesh Yadav,
23:14he may go to Ayodhya, but not to the Shri Ram Jan Bhoomi Mandir.
23:19He may go to Mathura, but not the Shri Krishna Jan Bhoomi Mandir.
23:23That's the point your opponents raise.
23:26Two very quick points.
23:26Is there merit in that?
23:27Two very quick points.
23:28That he doesn't want to antagonize the Muslim vote bank.
23:31If any of your viewers Googles that who, which is the chief minister who inaugurated the tallest
23:37Christian temple in Mathura?
23:38It is Akhilesh Yadav Ji.
23:39No, no, no.
23:40So the propaganda of BJP will not work.
23:43No, no, no.
23:44Ram Mandir Ji, Ram Mandir is concerned.
23:47I challenge Mr. Modi to go there now.
23:49Now that 45 crore Shraddhaloos have been stolen, devoted to Ram Mandir.
23:55Right?
23:56I challenge Mr. Yogi to go there now.
23:58These people have no face to show the followers of Ram temple.
24:03I am not interrupting you.
24:05I am not interrupting you.
24:06Okay, but I want to bring in Ashutosh.
24:08Ashutosh.
24:08I want to quickly bring in Ashutosh.
24:10Ashutosh, if we were to look at CSDS data, and I want Ashutosh and Professor Raghi,
24:15if we were to look at CSDS data, it shows 83% Yadavs voted for Samajwadi Party in 2022 assembly
24:22elections.
24:2382% backed the India Alliance in 2024.
24:26When Samajwadi Party says 27 mein krishna henge, they have the Yadav votes.
24:32They are very confident they have the Muslim votes.
24:34But will this help them expand?
24:36Or is there an apprehension that the Muslims may feel uncomfortable?
24:43No, no.
24:44See, Gaurav, I am a firm believer that the Samajwadi Party has to work on the two C's.
24:51C-A-S-T-E, caste.
24:54C-O-S-T, that is cost of living.
24:57And if they concentrate on the caste politics, means the social justice politics,
25:02the OBC politics, the Dalit politics.
25:03And this group comprised of 70% of the population, 70% of the UP population.
25:09And Bharati Janata Party has been able to get more than 40% vote share because they had infiltrated or
25:16outreached the OBCs and the Dalit.
25:18But in 2024 Parliament election, if you see, the non-JATO voters had ditched BJP and had come to the
25:28Samajwadi Party and the Congress.
25:30There is a drop of almost 12% among the Kourmis and the Kouris.
25:35It moves towards the India bloc.
25:39And then there is also a drop of almost 6% to 7% amongst the other backward caste.
25:44Now, if this trend continues and the Samajwadi Party and the Congress Party tries to wean them away from the
25:51BJP, that will be the success story.
25:53And it is because of this that the Congress and the Samajwadi Party are not sparring for seats.
26:02And I'll come to you, Ashutosh, for your analysis on that.
26:05But Professor Raghi, I want you to respond to this.
26:09You know, Akhilesh Yadav is very confident of the Yadav vote.
26:13He's very confident of the Muslim vote.
26:15But that doesn't take him to Lucknow as Chief Minister.
26:18So he wants to break into the Yogi Adityanath or the BJP vote bank.
26:25And he's hoping whether he gets the Pichdas or he gets the Brahmans or a section of both.
26:29And he's he'll sail through.
26:31Is that a challenge for the BJP in your view, sir?
26:35Certainly, I find that after UGC notification and a couple of issues, the upper caste, there has been a dent
26:44in the upper caste.
26:45But what happens, Gaurav, in a democracy, sometimes you make a choice between bad and worse and worse and worst.
26:53Right.
26:53And here, when you when these voters would look back, they would not vote for Samajwadi Party.
27:00They would go for Hindutva forces, which is represented by Yogi Adityanath.
27:05Second, I am always surprised how the caste becomes a caste based, because I'm rephrasing it.
27:13Caste is a caste based vote is a secular vote.
27:16When there is a larger mobilization across the caste, which is the Hindutva plank, that becomes a communal.
27:21So I haven't understood this.
27:24Third point.
27:26I have I cannot say that I have the length and breadth of Uttar Pradesh.
27:31But I in last one month, I have gone so many times to Uttar Pradesh and I have talked to
27:38even visited Ram Temple.
27:39And I talked to the people about the, you know, Chandachori.
27:44I don't think that this is going to be the issue in election at all.
27:48And this is not going to damage the BJP at all.
27:50Ashutosh, the seculars, as they're called, must respond to this.
27:55If Hindus get divided in caste, it is seen as secularism.
28:00But if Hindus unite and vote as Hindus irrespective of their caste, it is seen as communalism.
28:08What is this grammar, sir? You know, society.
28:11That's the question Sangeet Ragi asks.
28:14Sir Gaurav, let me tell you this.
28:17Caste is a reality in Indian politics.
28:20And there is a pushback from the Dalits and the upper caste against the hegemony of the upper caste.
28:28There's a pushback.
28:29This PDA and the social justice politics is basically a pushback.
28:33If they have been suppressed on the name of the caste, then they will also get a pushback on the
28:38name of the caste itself.
28:39So today, if the BJP, if the UBC is traumatized because they belong to the OBC, our Dalit is being
28:46exploited because they belong to the community.
28:49I haven't seen any upper caste person ever being traumatized because they belong to that caste.
28:55But this happens on a daily basis in our society.
28:57They were insulted.
28:58They were intimidated.
28:59They were threatened.
29:00In case the Hindus unite as one and vote, then it will not be seen as communal is what you're
29:07saying.
29:08If the upper caste reaches out to others and if they reach out to others and everybody comes together as
29:14Hindus, then it's no longer considered communal.
29:17Is that what you're saying?
29:18Dr. Mishra wants to respond.
29:20No, because the pushback from the OBC and the Dalit is against the hegemony.
29:29They are demanding justice.
29:30They are not demanding the dominance.
29:33Hegemony, says Ashutosh.
29:35Ashutosh ji, my simple question with you is that caste is a reality, but religion is not reality.
29:42Dharma is not reality.
29:44Dharma is not reality.
29:44How you can say that?
29:45If the major society is uniting, even with the Dharma, what is the problem?
29:50How it becomes communal?
29:51That is my biggest question to everyone.
29:54Nobody can respond to it.
29:55Because when the Hindus are united, then it becomes communal.
29:59But when the Hindus are divided on the caste, it becomes secular.
30:02This standard of division by the sociologists, I can't understand.
30:06Please explain.
30:07Okay.
30:0730 seconds.
30:08Just 30 seconds.
30:09I'm reading a very interesting book and I recommend my dear friend Kaushal Kishore to read this book.
30:14Okay.
30:14We'll do book promotions in a while.
30:16I'm sorry.
30:17I don't have time for book promotions right now on this broadcast.
30:20You can make an empirical point in 30 seconds without...
30:24Sir, just make your point.
30:26...to that.
30:27The book written by Jyotiba Fule called Gulaam Giri.
30:32This book, I think my dear friend Kaushal Kishore should read.
30:35Fair enough.
30:35I am talking about the hegemony.
30:36We must read books.
30:38I really, really, really.
30:39But let me also read the writing on the wall and ground.
30:41Will it explain that caste politics is secular and religion politics is communal?
30:44Will this book explain this?
30:46No, it will not.
30:47You read this book.
30:47It will not explain this.
30:49It cannot explain this.
30:50Okay.
30:50Professor Raghi wants to come in.
30:53Professor Raghi, 30 seconds that I have on this part of the show.
30:56Gaurav.
30:57Gaurav.
30:57Gaurav.
30:57Gaurav.
30:59The Muslims should remain homogenous.
31:02Yes.
31:02There should be no divide on the basis of the caste within the Muslim society.
31:07Have you ever seen, even on television, when my friend was editor or anybody editor, even today.
31:13Okay.
31:13Do you see the caste depiction within the Muslim community?
31:18No.
31:19They always say that Muslim community, whatever happens, it is not segregated that the atrocities
31:25have been perpetrated against this caste of the Muslim.
31:28When it comes to Hindu, you remain divided.
31:31This is the politics of social justice.
31:33Interesting.
31:34This is to promote a particular thing.
31:35Very interesting.
31:36And in the run-up to Uttar Pradesh elections, we'll be watching a lot more of this.
31:40I have unfortunately run-up time on this part of the show.
31:42Absolutely.
31:43We'll all read a lot of books, and that's very essential, but not on television debates.
31:50But this conversation will continue.
31:53Join us on India First.
31:55Join us on Chakraview, where we'll have a much longer discussion on this Chakraview of
32:00Uttar Pradesh politics.