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Union Home Minister Amit Shah challenged Leader of Opposition Rahul Gandhi to a parliamentary debate over electoral integrity allegations during the Bharatiya Janata Party's campaign in Karnal, Haryana.
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00:00Hello and welcome. You're watching India First. I'm Gaurav Savant.
00:04Union Home Minister Amit Shah today challenged the leader of opposition Rahul Gandhi
00:08to debate allegations of vote-chori in parliament on the floor of the House
00:13instead of these battles on the street.
00:15The Home Minister was in Karnal in Haryana as part of the BJP's nationwide
00:20Save Democracy Remove Anarchy campaign against the Congress-led opposition.
00:25But the Congress has also hit back in more ways than one.
00:30But there's breaking news coming in.
00:32Jharkhand Health Minister and Senior Congress Leader Dr. Irfan Ansari
00:37is in the eye of a storm over his statement
00:41which is being seen as a warning saying words to the effect
00:46the government should learn its lessons.
00:50The government in Nepal thought they were everything
00:54but the people of Nepal uprooted them.
00:58The government in Bangladesh fell
01:00because they did not listen to their people.
01:04He then went on to say
01:0540 lakh students
01:0840 lakh students are ready to take to the streets in India.
01:14Rahul Gandhi has held them back.
01:17Modiji should take a lesson.
01:22This comes as Amit Shah accused the Leader of Opposition
01:26of disrupting parliamentary proceedings,
01:28spreading anarchy and questioning the electronic voting machine
01:32only when the Congress party or the opposition lost elections.
01:37He questioned Rahul Gandhi's frequent foreign visits
01:40and asserted Leader of Opposition
01:43why should he shy away from a parliamentary debate?
01:46Amit Shah's message is clear.
01:48If Rahul Gandhi has evidence to back his allegations
01:51then Parliament is the place to substantiate them.
01:55And then the BJP has now launched a multi-pronged offensive.
01:58We have Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath
02:00who's joined the counter-offensive.
02:02He, in fact, spoke of the emergency in 1975
02:05to question the Congress party's, as he put it,
02:08dubious credentials on democracy.
02:10He accused the Gandhi family
02:12of taking credit for electoral victories
02:14but blaming the EVM for the party's defeat
02:17or the Election Commission of India.
02:19He went on to say
02:21the Congress repeatedly puts family before nation.
02:25But the Congress refuses to fight on BJP's terms.
02:29It's actually setting its own terms.
02:31The Congress party insists
02:33there has to be a presidential style of face-off
02:35between Prime Minister Narendra Modi
02:37and Leader of Opposition in Lok Sabha Rahul Gandhi
02:40arguing that the Prime Minister
02:42must accept the challenge
02:44and defend his record
02:45because Rahul Gandhi, according to Congress party,
02:47has very specific charges to make.
02:49Congress President Malikarjun Kharge
02:51accused Prime Minister Narendra Modi
02:53of avoiding questions on the very critical issue
02:56of vote-chory,
02:57of not appearing in Parliament,
03:00not taking questions from the opposition
03:02and not even holding a press conference
03:05in the past 12 years.
03:06He urged Prime Minister Narendra Modi
03:08to come forward,
03:09take questions
03:10and respond specifically
03:12to opposition's allegations on vote-chory.
03:15The Congress is countering the BJP's demand
03:17for a parliamentary debate.
03:20They say opposition
03:22is routinely denied an opportunity
03:24to speak in Parliament.
03:26Opposition claims
03:28the moment leader of opposition
03:29starts to speak
03:30or other opposition leaders
03:32try and speak,
03:33microphones are switched off,
03:36issues are not permitted
03:37to be raised on the floor of the House,
03:39and a meaningful debate
03:40cannot be held
03:41in such a situation.
03:43The big political question tonight,
03:45is this a political war
03:48to actually seek answers
03:50to the questions,
03:52very critical questions
03:53that are being raised on electoral integrity
03:55and democratic accountability,
03:57or will it just remain another round of
04:00accusations and counter-allegations?
04:03We'll get you all sides of this story,
04:05and then there's another angle
04:07that's now being looked into.
04:09We'll talk about that in greater detail,
04:11but first let me get you
04:12some of the highlights
04:14of the war of words
04:15between the government
04:15and the opposition.
04:54I hope it's hard to say,
05:29ुपूरी चर्चा वहां कर देंगे
05:32आप जूट बोलना बन करो
05:36आपने पिछले कुछ समय से कॉंग्रेस की अराजकता को देखा होगा
05:45कैसे वहां अपने स्वार्थ के लिए
05:50दुनिया के सबसे प्राचीन और सबसे बड़े लोग तंद्र को ही अभी स्वस्निय बनाने की कुछ सी चेश्टा कर रही
05:58है
05:58आशरे होता है कि देश के संबेदानिक संस्ताओं पर अनलगल टिपणी करके
06:08लोग तंद्र के प्रतियनास्ता ब्यक्त करके
06:13कॉंग्रेस भारत के स्वाधीनता संग्राम सेनानियों की विरासत को अप्मानित करने का पाप कर रही है
06:22राहुल गांदी राहुल गांदी इस सड़क पे चलते वे आदमी सा हाथ मिलाते
06:26राहुल गांदी ने तो चेलेंज कर दिया है आपको
06:29आप में सास है हिम्मत है तो उसके चेलेंज को सुईकार करो
06:34जो चेलेंज क्या है सुईकार करो
06:35And you can also sit on the full force,
06:36you can sit on the telepronter,
06:39and you can go with the telepronter,
06:41and you can sit on the way here.
06:42Come on, there are a million people.
06:44There are million people in the world.
06:46In parliament, the conversation is about parliament.
06:49If you shut the mic, you shut the mic.
06:51You don't go out the mic.
06:52If you talk about parliament, you shut the mic,
06:54then that the conversation is about how you shut the mic.
06:5724 hours ago, I have a challenge you gave.
07:02you say that the opposition is a country in any stage.
07:10You go to a place. Debate with me.
07:17Who is the country? Who is the village forces?
07:21Who is the connection? And who is the connection?
07:25Go ahead and go ahead. Don't worry.
07:28Don't worry. We will meet both.
07:32The media will be. The country will be.
07:36The table will be. You will sit one side.
07:38I will sit one side.
07:40Whoever you want to make judge, make judge.
07:42Maun Bhagwat Ji, let's go.
07:45And then debate.
07:48Meanwhile, there appears to be some trouble for the Congress internally.
07:52More than 200 youth Congress office bearers have reportedly been suspended
07:57for missing Rahul Gandhi's November 1 vote chori rally at the Ramlila Maidan in Delhi.
08:04A show cause notice was issued. Some cited family emergency for skipping the event.
08:09Some others have hit back and hard. Some going to the extent of criticizing
08:13platforming of AISA chief Neha Bora, according to reports coming in.
08:17Now, this action has given the BJP fresh ammunition to attack the leader of opposition, Rahul Gandhi.
08:22A Madhya Pradesh youth Congress leader who missed the rally responded saying a relative had passed away
08:28and that he'd already informed his party leaders in advance. Among those who've now been suspended
08:34include Kader, who criticized the Congress party leadership for giving prominence to AISA chief Neha Bora
08:41on the Congress party's platforms and saying words to the effect, you may want to platform her,
08:47go ahead, but give responsibility to youth Congress leaders too. The youth Congress publicly announced
08:52disciplinary action against its own workers through its social media handles. The disciplinary action
08:57reportedly involves more than 200 office bearers across eight state units. And this has raised questions
09:03over how the Congress is treating its own workers. It's given the BJP a stick to mock Rahul Gandhi
09:11or the Congress party claim. Even his own party colleagues and youth in his party are not convinced
09:17about his cause. On action taken in Madhya Pradesh, my colleague Gravesh Pal Singh is on Ground Zero
09:23in Madhya Pradesh. He reports that the disciplinary action impacts nine district presidents,
09:28five vice presidents, 14 general secretaries and 32 secretaries. We will talk about this in greater
09:36detail, but on the wider aspect, the wider issue that's now being raised, especially about a senior
09:43Congress leader, a cabinet minister in Jharkhand, the health minister of Jharkhand, saying words to the
09:50effect that 40 lakh people are waiting on, they will take to the streets. Rahul Gandhi is holding them
09:56back, learn lessons from Bangladesh and Nepal. Joining me on India first is Rohan Gupta, national
10:02spokesperson of the BJP. Vrijesh Kalappa, national spokesperson of the Congress. Jairan Dahad Rai
10:07is a Supreme Court advocate, joins us for a legal perspective. Anish Gawande is national
10:13spokesperson of the NCP Sharad Pawar. Gentlemen, welcome. Lovely having all of you over. Vrijesh Kalappa,
10:19how would you read Jharkhand minister Irfan Ansari's statement, his words that 40 lakh are waiting to
10:28the, to take to the streets? The government must learn a lesson from Bangladesh and Nepal or words to
10:34that effect, sir? Yeah, I think it's, it's a commonplace that everybody agrees that the, the government has
10:44failed in talking to people who have been affected by this entire SIR exercise. And neither has the
10:53election commission of India talked to anybody, nor has the government of India talked to anybody.
10:57I think as far as, you know, resolving a very complicated issue like this, it has to be by way
11:05of talks, by way of convincing the people of what has happened. Because there is a large section of
11:13society which feels that this is an exercise which has gone horribly wrong. And people on all sides of
11:21the political spectrum, whether it's the Congress party, whether it's the BJP, whether it's any other
11:25political party, each and every normal citizen feels that the SIR exercise has gone rogue. Now, keeping this
11:33in mind, I think it was essential that the government tried to reach out to people. So,
11:40naturally, there is unrest. If the minister is speaking of unrest, this is the unrest he is
11:45speaking about. Okay, sir, he's just cautioning the government is what you say. He's cautioning the
11:49government that 40 lakh are ready to take to the streets. Rahul Gandhi is holding them back. The
11:55government must learn a lesson from Nepal, Bangladesh or words to that effect. Rohan Gupta,
11:59how does the BJP view Jharkhand minister's comments? Timely warning or a threat?
12:05Sahil, first of all, the way Congress party had claimed for 10 lakh people, they could, with great
12:11difficulty, all Indi-Gandmandan parties, they could gather only 30,000 people. And you just showed the
12:16news that old worker didn't participate. I didn't, what is this? You never do that, right?
12:22Why you get, I never spoke here. You can't run down a political rally and say that, you know,
12:27a momentous rally like this. You can't say 30,000 people.
12:31I think he's a serious person, it's not. I never wanted to get a lesser number.
12:32Gentlemen, gentlemen, one by one. Give us the satisfaction of giving us a lesser number.
12:35Please keep quiet. I never spoke in between. Okay, gentlemen, one by one. Mr. Kalapa,
12:40I'll come back to you before I go to other guests to respond to what Mr. Gupta says. Rohan Gupta,
12:44go on, sir.
12:45My point is very simple. When Congress workers are not convinced with the cause, how do you expect
12:51the general people to participate in rally? And if Congress party is so confident, I am challenging
12:55why they are not able to gather these 5,000 people, the names and everything, okay, these people's
13:00votes are cut. When you give the center stage to Neha Bora and you do injustice to the workers who
13:06have
13:06given sweat for years, what is this? Obviously, they will be demotivated. The leftist leader,
13:11when Rahul Kanti puts his hand around his shoulder and Priyanka Kanti supports her, then obviously the
13:17caterer will be demotivated. And you don't come here and you have to claim that 10,000,000 people
13:21come here. The basic core issue here is, even Congress party knows that this ground absolutely,
13:27this issue is not there on ground. It is only the reason for them to divert attention from the core
13:33issue that Congress party is getting defeated again and again. Yesterday, Ladakh results came,
13:37and the result, Congress again got the under. Who is responsible for that? And if you have proof,
13:42you are in democracy, you are a leader of opposition, rather than challenging PM to discuss
13:47outside, you come inside the parliament, show the proof, the whole country will support.
13:51Fair enough, I'll come to that point in just a moment. I'll come to that point in just a moment.
13:56Vijayash Kalappa wanted to respond to you. Sir, quickly respond before I bring in our other guests.
14:00See, a senior journalist by the name of Dasha Browns, you know, spoke to the President of the
14:05United States. She was on a televised debate just like this, and she picked up the phone and spoke
14:10to the President of the United States. Would it not make a lot of sense for the Prime Minister to
14:16come and address the media on a location like this? To come and say, what are his thoughts? Why is
14:21the
14:21election commission behaving like this? Why is the SIR process so faulted? So if the Prime Minister came
14:28outside and spoke to the people, there would be a sense of confidence. But obviously…
14:33Okay. Mr. Gupta, you didn't like Mr. Kalappa interrupting you.
14:36There's a person who is the most affected person in the world that is Trump.
14:40And he is able to speak to the media.
14:40Request you to let him speak, I'll come back to you to respond.
14:44Only Mr. Kalappa.
14:46Yeah, so even a person like Trump is able to hold a press conference, speak to the media at free
14:53length. And somebody sits in a TV debate like this and is able to speak to the President of the
14:58United
14:59States. Why are we not able to speak to our Indian Prime Minister? What is so special about the office
15:04that keeps him away from everybody? Or is he very scared? That is the question.
15:09So once again, has the goalpost been shifted, sir? Once again, has the goalpost been shifted?
15:14What is the goalpost? Sorry, what was the goalpost?
15:15But before I come to that, before I come to that, sir, you started with SIR.
15:18The Prime Minister should be accountable. I'm asking yet another question. How is this a different
15:22goalpost? Okay, but Anish Gawande, let me stay on the question of the Jharkhand Minister.
15:29Let me stay on the issue of the Jharkhand Minister for a moment and I'll come to the televised
15:34debate versus parliamentary debate versus a debate on the street. But Anish,
15:41dissent integral to every democracy, youth of India, and you represent the youth,
15:46how would you see the statement of a senior Congress Party leader and a health minister
15:50of Jharkhand? Would you see it as dissent? Would you see it as threat? When he says 40 lakhs are
15:56waiting, India must take a lesson or learn a lesson from Nepal and Jharkhand.
16:02Gaurav, to start off with, I think the minister himself and the Congress Party have both clarified
16:07that a Nepal-like or a Bangladesh-like situation is simply not possible in a country like India.
16:13And yet he said so?
16:14I think that there are multiple transitions of power over the last sort of 75 years, right? So
16:19it is slightly juvenile to compare India to Nepal or Bangladesh. I think we have a robust democracy.
16:25I might disagree with our Home Minister and the Prime Minister on many issues, but I don't think
16:30they are incompetent enough to let an issue like this become the cornerstone of a Nepal or Bangladesh-like
16:38rebellion over here. I think what does need to be understood though, and this is something that
16:43both Pawar Sahib and Supriyatai raised after the kind of neat protests that happened in Delhi, and even
16:48though I was very closely associated with the CJP and remain very good friends with them, I had also
16:53highlighted was that there is a sense of disenchantment with politics as a whole amongst young people, right?
17:00And at that moment, it would have been prudent of the BJP and the Prime Minister himself to call for
17:05an all-party meeting to say, how do we restore faith in electoral democracy? How do we restore faith in
17:11the
17:12establishment as it were? And what do we do to ensure that street protests are perhaps not the
17:17only pressure valve for that frustration to come to the surface, right? And I think we have not had
17:23that honest conversation. I think that honest conversation is necessary. There are a lot of
17:28young people who are dissatisfied with the opposition and with the Bharatiya Janta Party.
17:31Where do they turn? What do they do? Does it possibly mean the creation of new political parties? Maybe,
17:37and I welcome that, which is why I have always consistently believed that an outfit like the CJP
17:42or necessarily any other outfit should become a political party. Because that is the right way
17:46in a democracy to channel dissent and dissatisfaction. They should contest against us as well. I look
17:51forward to that and perhaps joining alliance talks. But we must acknowledge that there is discontentment.
17:56To run away from that discontentment is to be sort of delusional or to delude ourselves.
18:03And I think that is a very dangerous part to walk on. Sure. Jainand Dehad Rai, legally speaking,
18:10does what the Jharkhand minister said, and for the benefit of our viewers, I want to play it out
18:16once again so that you hear it in its entirety. Does that constitute free speech, the drawing of a
18:23parallel with Nepal and Bangladesh? Read with statements of leaders like Neha Bora and Prashant
18:30Bhushan, elements of the civil society who are part of this wider movement. Listen in to the Jharkhand
18:35Minister Jai. I'm coming back to you with more. Listen in to Jharkhand Minister Dr. Irfan Ansari.
19:06He said,
19:20Legally speaking, your take on this Jainand Ehad Rai as a lawyer.
19:26Got a good evening straight away.
19:28This statement by Irfan Ansari, the Jharkhand minister.
19:31Apart from being highly, highly irresponsible, given that he himself occupies a ministerial post.
19:37Apart from that fact, I mean, this is textbook section 152 of the BNS.
19:41What he's doing is he's trying to, you know, affect, you know, create disaffection towards the Union of India.
19:48You know, he's trying to basically stir up the people, stir up the youth against, you know, democratic institutions.
19:55This is the idea behind that statement.
19:57I think it's crystal clear.
19:58And I always believe, Gaurav, you know this, I always believe in taking people at face value.
20:02You have Mr. Ansari articulating his thought process so clearly for all of us to hear.
20:08He wants a Bangladesh, Nepal-like situation in this country.
20:12I don't think one needs to be a genius to recall what happened in Bangladesh and Nepal.
20:17There was virtually, there was bloodshed on the streets.
20:20You had this so-called, you know, disaffection that was drummed up.
20:24And I think I completely disagree with Anish when he says that there is a lot of disaffection on the
20:29streets.
20:29There may be pockets of disaffection, but what is being attempted right now, for instance, by Mr. Gandhi and others,
20:36you know, from the opposition is to essentially stir up these, you know, the notion, the narrative that there is
20:41disaffection amongst the people and lead to chaos and anarchy in this country.
20:46So that, as I always say, so that he can rule on the ashes of this country.
20:52You know, Jay, I think, of course, promoting disaffection towards the Union of India is a fairly broad section that
21:04has been used multiple times in the past against political opponents.
21:07So we should be careful about the way in which it can be used against a sitting minister, right?
21:10And I don't know if the statement necessarily qualifies as such, but I disagree that there's disaffection, right?
21:17I think the pockets of disaffection are far larger than you and I presume.
21:21And the ones that you see on the street are actually a microcosm of a much larger problem that exists.
21:27And until we acknowledge that, until we acknowledge that the future of work is coming under threat with things like
21:32AI,
21:33until we acknowledge that you have a sort of global financial crisis that might be looming on the horizon,
21:37that people don't have jobs with dignity, there is a public mood globally right now where young people feel threatened.
21:44They feel like they don't have a future, whether rightly or wrongly so.
21:48You cannot dismiss those concerns, is all I'm saying.
21:50That's a very critical point you make.
21:52And Rohan Gupta, that's something that the government should be aware.
21:55You know, there may be different reasons.
21:58SIR may be just one part of it, but other reasons could all come together.
22:03And I'll come to you to respond to it.
22:04But Rajesh Kalapa wanted to go first, and then you respond.
22:07Go ahead, Mr. Kalapa.
22:09Yeah, see, Gaurav, Mr. Gurumurthy, who is the ideologue of the BJP and the RSS,
22:15has recently gone on record to say that there was no demand for regime change.
22:20In the 1st November, you know, rally, there was absolutely nothing at all about that.
22:26And that, I think, is more than amply clear.
22:28Now, if you're going to take any comment which is made by a political personality,
22:34and more so a Muslim, and you're going to say, no, no, this is 100% treason and so on
22:39and so forth.
22:40I didn't use those words, sir.
22:41I didn't say treason at all, sir.
22:44But I can tell you, after having his words, there is absolutely no reason for any person with some intellect
22:52to suspect that the person was, you know, giving any kind of a… was trying to spread disaffection.
22:59I think it was a fair warning.
23:01I think the government also requires a fair warning.
23:04And that fair warning has come from Mr. Ansari.
23:07Fair enough, sir.
23:08You think… you look at it as a fair warning.
23:10Jay wants to respond, but Rohan Gupta wants to come in first.
23:12Go ahead, sir.
23:12Rohan Gupta.
23:13Sir, this is the problem.
23:15You know, the new brand ambassador of Congress Party, Neha Bura, clearly told that she got inspiration from Bangladesh students.
23:21And see situation of the Bangladesh students, what has happened to Bangladesh.
23:25And this is what Congress Party wanted to do this with country.
23:28They don't have faith in the democratic values.
23:30They don't have faith in our sansar.
23:32They don't have faith in the normal process.
23:34They don't have faith in the evidences that, okay, if you are allegating the election commission,
23:39we must produce evidences before CGI or before president or before parliament.
23:44They just feel that whatever they decide will be decided.
23:47And on Sadat, on the roads, they will decide the democracy, no.
23:51The minister's statement is very clear.
23:53Everybody in Congress Party, they have given up as far as the democracy is concerned because they are not willing
23:58the elections.
23:58They just want to set the narrative that we are losing elections because of the SIR and all.
24:04And at the same time, they want to do takhta palat by using undemocratic methods.
24:09This is the whole narrative of Congress Party, which the people of this country has completely rejected.
24:13They failed in Bihar.
24:15They will fail in India.
24:16And as a party in power, we are very happy that the opposition party has to succumb to the issues
24:22which are non-connected to the people, not connected to the people.
24:25Fair enough.
24:26Now on the legal point, Jay, you wanted to respond to Anish and to Brijesh Kalappa quickly before I move
24:31to the next point, sir.
24:33Just two points.
24:34You know, the fact that this person is a minister does not give him in law any extra immunity and
24:39it doesn't allow him to go and essentially say whatever he wants.
24:42That is very, very important for us to understand.
24:45The fact that he occupies, which is why I opened by saying that he occupies a very important ministerial position,
24:50Anish.
24:51It means that he has to speak with some degree of responsibility.
24:54He's involved directly in governance.
24:56So because you form the government, let's say in Jharkhand, therefore you should incite the youths, you know, in Delhi
25:02and say that 40 lakh young people will come out on the streets and teach you a lesson like Bangladesh
25:06and Nepal.
25:07Now, I think it would be highly irresponsible if we don't book this minister for sedition in terms of section
25:15152.
25:16We need to make an example out of him.
25:18It doesn't matter if he's a minister.
25:20Let him come and explain what he wanted to say.
25:22And Gaurav, please remember, look at his reach.
25:24This is not some man on the street, you know, some common person who's making a statement like this.
25:30This is a person who's a minister.
25:32He's obviously an MLA.
25:33He has a large following.
25:34He's exhorting his supporters to come out and resort to violence.
25:39Okay.
25:39So let's take him at face value and let's test it out in the courts what he said.
25:43Fair enough.
25:44Let me now move to the other big point, Vijayesh Kalapa, which is a debate, a discussion in a parliamentary
25:51democracy.
25:52Should that not happen, you know, between the government and the opposition on any issue,
25:56including the special intensive revision of the electoral rolls and the irregularities that the Congress party speaks of,
26:04on the floor of the House, sir?
26:09See, Gaurav, the Prime Minister of India is an outstanding public speaker.
26:13And everybody recognizes that.
26:16Although he uses, you know, something to prompt him,
26:20I think he speaks exceptionally well.
26:23Why doesn't he test Mr. Rahul Gandhi in terms of, you know, who will do better?
26:29And this can't obviously be done in Parliament because first the speaker doesn't allow Mr. Rahul Gandhi to speak.
26:37And the Prime Minister never confronts Mr. Rahul Gandhi in Parliament at all.
26:41We have seen, even during the NEAT debate, the Home Minister came for a day, only on the very last
26:48day.
26:49So, generally, both of them try to avoid, you know, confronting Mr. Rahul Gandhi.
26:54I think it's a very fair offer from Mr. Rahul Gandhi.
26:56Okay.
26:56By saying that, please, let's have a one-to-one debate, one.
27:00And two, if you're going to have a debate in Parliament, then where does Mr. Mohan Bhagwat have a role?
27:07Mr. Mohan Bhagwat is not a member of Parliament.
27:10Okay.
27:11Right?
27:11They wield power without being elected.
27:14So, therefore, it has to necessarily, willy-nilly, it has to be done outside.
27:18Okay.
27:18So, therefore, I think the best place is outside Parliament.
27:21Let the Prime Minister come, let Mr. Mohan Bhagwat be the judge.
27:24And I would suggest Gaurasavant can be the anchor for this entire event.
27:28Fair enough.
27:29I would love to be the anchor, you know, should this be possible.
27:33But in a parliamentary democracy, you are saying that the opposition is not given fair play on the floor of
27:40the House.
27:41Rohan Gupta respond.
27:43The opposition says their mics are switched off.
27:45You heard, Mr. Masood.
27:47And again, you know, when I refer to your UP, BJP, UP Congress Chief, Vijish Kalappa, it's not because of
27:53his religion, but because of his statement.
27:55Again, a question about the Jharkhand Minister was not about his religion, but only about, you know, his statement.
28:01But respond, Rohan Gupta, opposition is not given a fair opportunity on the floor of the House, sir.
28:06Okay.
28:07I'll give the numbers to prove that what opposition is given and what opposition has done.
28:122026, monsoon session.
28:13Only 15 to 19 percent Parliament could run.
28:172025, monsoon.
28:18Only 29 percent.
28:1924, winter session, only 52 percent.
28:2223, budget session, 33 percent.
28:2521, monsoon session, 21 percent.
28:27In the 2018, budget session, 21 percent.
28:292016, winter session, 15 percent.
28:32What opportunity are you talking about?
28:34When Manipur session was called, you people did walk out.
28:37When 370 happened, you did walk out.
28:39When Bukk 4 opened, you went out.
28:40So, whenever you get opportunity to speak inside Parliament, you run away.
28:44Obviously, when you have somebody who's trying to start your voice, people can't speak.
28:49Because that is what you can do.
28:51You don't trust the Parliament and you are forced to organize Mok Parliament because that
28:54is the only place where your leader can become Prime Minister.
28:57He cannot become Prime Minister inside the Parliament.
28:59That's a very pertinent point.
29:01He's raising, Rohan Gupta, which you must respond to.
29:03At least in a mock Parliament, you know, Meera Kumar permits Rahul Gandhi to speak.
29:08In Parliament, Congress alleges Rahul Gandhi is not permitted to speak, sir.
29:12Sahil, allegations, you tell me under which rule Congress party has substantiated about the bike.
29:18We have seen leader of opposition switching off his own mic himself and saying that
29:21the whole country has seen that.
29:24If you are in the Parliament, if any rule is breached, definitely Congress party can cite the rule.
29:29And definitely question the government.
29:31Your allegations don't work.
29:32It is not your headquarters or your party office or a residence of your leader.
29:36It is run by the rules, regulations.
29:38You cite me.
29:39Rules of the BJP.
29:40I am challenging Congress party where Congress party is not going to be stopped.
29:43It's run by the rules of BJP and RSS.
29:45Absolutely, you don't want to follow the rules.
29:47For zero hours, there are the rules.
29:49For asking questions, there are the rules.
29:50No, we will follow the rules of the BJP and RSS once we become members of the BJP and RSS.
29:56You will follow your own rules.
29:57This is not your office.
29:58This is Parliament.
30:00And I am challenging you under one rule.
30:02You tell me where Mike of Mr. Rahul Gandhi's speech stop and Congress file, TS file,
30:05re-inwriting complaint to the speaker regarding that.
30:08Fair enough.
30:09Anish Gawande, again, I want to bring you in because people say that the country doesn't
30:13listen to Gen Z enough.
30:15They don't listen to youngsters enough.
30:17And it's always such a treat to listen to intelligent young, you know, youngsters who really think big for the
30:25country.
30:25But tell me, a debate on merits, should it be on the floor of the House in a parliamentary democracy
30:30or a debate on the streets?
30:32I would love a debate which is moderated by me.
30:35But then in a parliamentary democracy, what's the best way forward?
30:38Why does it have to be either or, Gaurav?
30:41Why can't we have both?
30:43I think to begin with, political mudsling about Parliament has to stop.
30:47The refusal of both sides to work together.
30:51And in this part, I will discredit the BJP a lot more because I think they have a lot to
30:56answer for as to why they have not come with an honesty of intent to the table and allowed Parliament
31:01to function.
31:02You'll remember LK Advani ji and Smushma Swaraj ji saying that it is the job of the Parliamentary Affairs Minister
31:07to ensure that Parliament remains functional.
31:09When the BJP is in power, they cannot abdicate their responsibility.
31:13So they must bring both sides to the table and have that level of trust that allows Parliament to function.
31:18That being said, if the Parliament is the only place for such a debate to take place, then why did
31:26LK Advani ji challenge Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to a public debate in 2009?
31:32Why did Prime Minister Modi, as Chief Minister of Gujarat, stage a mock Red Fort Independence Day address and challenge
31:42then Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to a public debate?
31:46Okay.
31:46In Amrikapur.
31:47You cannot have that hypocrisy, right?
31:50You cannot have that hypocrisy.
31:52And Dr. Manmohan Singh agree, but be that as it may.
31:55Rohan Gupta, you wanted to come in.
31:58See, this is the core problem with the opposition party today.
32:01When you ask questions, they will ask the counter questions.
32:03They will not have the reference.
32:04We are talking about leader of opposition and asking the Prime Minister, talking debate outside.
32:09Definitely, why can't he discuss the same points inside the Parliament?
32:13He is talking about SIR.
32:14Congress party has made SIR such a big issue.
32:17If Congress party has one single evidence, don't you feel, Sahil, talking inside the Parliament will give more mileage to
32:23Congress party if they have substantial evidence?
32:25Then why are they running away and talking on the roads?
32:28Let's go.
32:28I am challenging.
32:29I am giving challenge to Congress party.
32:32One, one, one, one, I never interrupted.
32:35One instance where there is evidence of vote churi which is submitted to any of the constitutional chief, whether CGI,
32:44whether it is president or inside the Parliament.
32:46When democracy, the Parliament is the temple of democracy, why you are disrespecting that?
32:51There can be other issues you can keep on discussing, but when you are questioning the constitutional body, chief of
32:58the country, which is one of the epic constitutional bodies, obviously you should be responsible and you should ask debate
33:04inside the Parliament, which Mr. Amit Shah is clearly toward.
33:07We are ready for all the debates.
33:09I am challenging Congress party to accept the challenge and produce the evidence inside the Parliament.
33:13Let me also get a legal perspective on this.
33:16I just want a question.
33:17Jay, any dispute.
33:18One small question to him.
33:21Can I quickly begin, Jay, and then I will come to you for your question.
33:24And we will extend this debate.
33:26We will extend this debate.
33:27Jay and Nandahad Rai, any dispute, any dispute between two parties, two political parties can either be resolved on the
33:37floor of the House, in courts of law, or in courts of people through elections.
33:42Now, unless, of course, there are some who are willing to follow what the Congress calls as a warning or
33:49a caution Dr. Irfan Ansari model of 40 lakh on the streets, if that is the new template.
33:54But where do you stand on this?
33:57Gaurav, this is what I think, I mean, as an outside observer.
34:00When Mr. Rahul Gandhi makes such a statement, being the leader of the opposition, that the Prime Minister could come
34:06outside, sit across the table from me, we can have a judge there, we will debate like that.
34:12It comes across as a very unserious, very churlish, very immature statement.
34:19The fact is that we are a parliamentary democracy.
34:21No, but why do you say that, sir?
34:22I'll explain.
34:23We are a parliamentary democracy.
34:25There is a calendar specified for when parliament functions, and the rest of the year, the Indian Prime Minister, Mr.
34:32Narendra Modi, is responsible for governing a country of 1.4 billion people.
34:37That is his core responsibility, to govern.
34:40Now, that's a very, very serious, onerous duty and responsibility cast upon him.
34:45When the leader of the opposition, who's certainly, you know, constitutionally, democratically required to keep him in check, as the
34:52shadow government, resorts to these childish antics.
34:55I mean, he reminds me of Mr. Bean, frankly.
34:57When he comes out and he asks, you know, he says all of these things to the Prime Minister.
35:01What stops him, I wonder, as even the Home Minister asked, I believe, in a remark of his, what stops
35:08him from coming to parliament?
35:10The whole country watches Lok Sabha proceedings, Gaurav.
35:12If he has something to say, he should expose the government in parliament.
35:16But obviously, it's my way or the highway.
35:18So, Mr. Gandhi, his entitlement, that whole dynastic, you know, hangover that they suffer from, you know, it continues to
35:26linger on.
35:26So, it has to be there.
35:27Rajesh Kalapa wants to respond to that.
35:29Also, take my question, sir.
35:31However, BJP says Rahul Gandhi is unable to convince even his own youth leaders about his cause.
35:38And BJP is citing this action taken against youth congress leaders for alleged organizational indiscipline for the no-show at
35:47the Ramlila Maidan.
35:48Apparently, youth leaders are also not happy about the center staging of Neha Bora by Rahul Gandhi, according to reports
35:56that have been published.
35:57Your take on that, Mr. Kalapa?
36:00No, like I said, there are a lot of reports regarding the differences between Prime Minister Modi and H.M.
36:06Amit Shah.
36:07There are also reports of differences between both of them with Mr. Yogi Adityanath.
36:14So, there are all kinds of reports.
36:16So, let's not go by these reports because they are neither here nor there.
36:20Now, I think as far as what…
36:22The recent reaction against youth congress leaders has been put out by the congress party's hands, sir.
36:26One minute, Gaurab.
36:27I object strongly to the usage of language of Mr. Dehaz, right?
36:32Look, either you don a political hat and you come and speak, right?
36:36But you can't, on the one hand, behave like an expert on some subject and then say somebody is childish,
36:44somebody is churlish and all this.
36:46I strongly object to this.
36:48Point taken, sir.
36:48This kind of language by somebody who states that he is neutral and he is all this.
36:55I think this doesn't kind of mix.
36:57Please, if he wants to, let him join a political party.
37:02I'll get him to respond on that.
37:04I'll get him to respond on that.
37:05But on merits of youth congress leaders being suspended.
37:08I think that you as a channel should do that stop people who have political, strong political views in favor
37:15of a political party appearing as neutral experts.
37:19Okay.
37:19This is the first thing.
37:20And this is not personally against anybody.
37:22But I'm telling you as a channel.
37:23Again, sir, my question to you was on congress parties suspending youth congress leaders for their alleged no-show for
37:30alleged organizational indiscipline, sir.
37:37Mr. Kalappa.
37:38No, see, as far as youth congress workers are concerned, see, we wanted to have a very peaceful rally.
37:47We were very keen that everybody there should have a sense that there is absolutely no scope for misbehavior.
37:56So, therefore, we needed our cadre there in full strength.
38:00And this is the reason that when lakhs of people converge in an area, then it is essential for proper
38:08form to be maintained.
38:09And this is the reason why we were so insistent that there must be a youthful force there.
38:16And this is the reason why the party cadre has taken this extremely seriously and tried to pull them up.
38:23Fair enough.
38:23Rohan Gupta wants to respond and I want to bring it to Jainan and they have the right to respond
38:26to what you said.
38:28The whole issue here is, they understand the leadership.
38:33Yeah, the problem here is, congress party leadership, they don't understand the vibration.
38:41Mr. Bajesh, if you want to make it to make it to the Bangladesh and Nepal side of me, this
38:46is the problem, Sahil.
38:47Can you keep him quiet?
38:48One by one.
38:49You know, you don't need someone to paraphrase our own.
38:52One by one.
38:52One by one.
38:53Please, let me speak, Mr. Bajesh.
38:55The problem, the core issue, Sahil, is...
38:58Okay, so I know passions are running high.
39:00Mr. Kalapa, you've heard your say, Mr. Gupta.
39:02I'm going to tell you.
39:03Okay, just hear Mr. Gupta.
39:05Go ahead, Rohan Gupta.
39:06Yeah.
39:06I'll tell you the core problem.
39:07What is the problem?
39:08What is the problem?
39:09When you have to remodivate your workers, and you have to keep your hands on your knees,
39:13then you have to understand the pressure of the workers, that if you leave them, then it will be the
39:17same.
39:17There is no value of workers in the Congress party.
39:20The leftist people like Neha Bora, who patronizes Bangladesh.
39:23You have to keep your hands on your knees, and you want to keep your workers in your rally.
39:26Where will they come from?
39:27And you have to leave them.
39:28This is the plight of Congress parties today.
39:31Mr. Kalapa, sorry, you couldn't complete your point.
39:34Quickly complete your point before I bring in Ashish and Jai.
39:38No, I didn't have anything to say.
39:40I was only saying that Mr. Rohan Gupta gets very ratchet.
39:43When I start to speak, and he has to speak over me, so I was just making a point to
39:47him.
39:47Fair enough.
39:48Why are you insulting Neha Bora?
39:49She is a leftist, and you are supporting Neha Bora and disrespecting your workers.
39:53Who is Neha Bora?
39:54Is she in our party?
39:55This is the plight of the situation.
39:56Why don't you take her, Mr. Gupta?
39:58Who is Neha Bora?
39:59You are also in our party, now you have stepped to the other side.
40:02We are going to work on the other side.
40:04And you have disrespected your workers.
40:06Where will you become a party?
40:08You are disrespected your workers.
40:09You are making a leftist.
40:11This is the plight of Congress party.
40:13Jai, you wanted to quickly respond to the point made by Mr. Kalapa.
40:16The last 30 seconds that I have on this part of the show, quickly respond, sir.
40:20See, I don't take offense to what Mr. Kalapa says.
40:23I don't get personal ever, but I understand the difficulty that he has being in the Congress.
40:27Everyone has to be very sycophantic towards the Gandhis.
40:31Otherwise, they lose their position in the party.
40:32That's how it's run since Mr. Nehru was the Prime Minister.
40:35But I should remind him of the history of his own political party.
40:40It is Mr. Nehru who brought in censorship.
40:43And today, again, he gives me this unsolicited advice.
40:45I am a third-party observer.
40:47And I simply made a remark, Kalapa, I only said this.
40:50That I want Mr. Rahul Gandhi, who occupies the position of shadow government leader.
40:57I want him to ask important, you know, searching questions to the government of India.
41:03I want him to ask difficult questions from this government.
41:05But why doesn't he become a more serious person and ask good, important questions
41:10and put the government on the mat in parliament?
41:13Why does he resort to these childish antics outside saying that I'll challenge you to a debate and so on?
41:18Put the government on the mat on the floor of the house.
41:20Anish, for starters, is that the best way forward at least in a parliamentary democracy?
41:26If there's a debate on the floor of the house, we all get to see it.
41:30We all get to hear.
41:30And then the voters, the people of this country, make up their minds.
41:35Kaurav, instead of asking a hundred questions about why we should have a debate in public,
41:43I think we should ask just one simple question.
41:45Why not?
41:46Why should we be afraid of a public debate?
41:49Who is afraid of a public debate?
41:51No, where is the question of being afraid is my point.
41:54We are a parliamentary democracy.
41:56Hesitant.
41:56Why should you be afraid?
41:58Why should you be reticent?
41:59Why should you be reluctant?
42:00Why should you be apprehensive?
42:02You know, that's a point that can be made by either side.
42:04Why is one afraid of having a debate in parliament?
42:07We are a parliamentary democracy.
42:08There are systems to be moved by that system, but that's a debate for people to answer.
42:13I think both sides have presented strong arguments about whether or not they have current faith
42:19in the way the parliamentary affairs minister is running parliament.
42:22Now there is dissatisfaction.
42:24One way out of it is by resolving the deadlock that has existed in parliament.
42:28Evidently, we've not been able to resolve that deadlock.
42:30When we asked for one hour to debate air pollution, we got 10 hours of debate on Mandi Mataram instead.
42:37Right?
42:37So we are not allowed to put our legislative agenda forward.
42:39So why are we pretending that the government is allowing the opposition to speak in parliament?
42:43So be that as it may, I think a public debate is welcome.
42:47In South Mumbai, looks of our constituency, we have a very strong tradition where you have the two candidates facing
42:53each other and sometimes the three candidates facing each other doing public debates before an election.
42:57Excellent.
42:58Rohan Gupta, why are we scared of a public debate?
43:02Nobody is scared of public debate.
43:04But why are you disrespecting the parliament?
43:06I think parliament is much bigger platform to display your knowledge or display your logic or arguments.
43:12Why are you disrespecting that?
43:14We are not a presidential form of this thing.
43:16And when he's asked about Lal Krishna Advani, let me tell you, it was Mr. Mohan Mohansi who questioned, who
43:21did Mr. Lal Krishna Advani, who questioned his record as a home minister, and then he replied.
43:25Why are you running away from the parliament?
43:27Why are you running away from the parliament?
43:28Why are you running away from there?
43:28You have evidence.
43:31So parliament is a place where you can display your evidence and get something in your favor.
43:36When you do it on road, obviously the sanctity won't be there.
43:39So I am challenging Congress party, accept the challenge to discuss all your issues.
43:43Inside the parliament, nobody is going to stop your mic.
43:46But there should be logic in your arguments and don't run away when the section is fixed like always.
43:50So whether there's logic in their argument or not has to be decided by the people of this country through
43:55their vote is what I personally believe.
43:58But be that as it may, you know, we got our viewers all side of the story.
44:03Now it's for our viewers to decide.
44:05I want to thank all our guests for joining me on this absolutely fantastic debate with great guests that I
44:11had.
44:12I now want to get you what the government is talking about the changes in the Agniveer system.
44:18The center says they've opened a new pathway for Agniveers to enter regular military service with 75% of Agniveers
44:27to get a two-year extension.
44:29So, Defense Minister Rajnath Singh, he's thanked Prime Minister Narendra Modi for the Agniveer extension decision,
44:36saying it will provide an opportunity for all willing Agniveers to enroll in regular service.
44:42He said the move aligns with defense reforms aimed at building a younger, fitter military and preparing India's armed forces
44:52for the changing nature of warfare.
44:54So what exactly does the revised arrangement mean for Agniveers?
44:59Defense officials have actually given a detailed explanation answering some of the questions about eligibility, absorption and respect and maintenance
45:10of seniority.
45:11So let's break it down point by point.
45:13First, will all Agniveers have a chance to join the regular cadre of the army?
45:19The answer is yes.
45:21The new arrangement opens a pathway for all 100% of Agniveers to be absorbed into regular service.
45:29So how will this work?
45:30The first 25% will be absorbed after completion of their first initial four-year engagement.
45:40The remaining 75% will get an additional two-year engagement period after which, should they meet the criteria, they
45:49too will be considered for regular absorption.
45:53Is there a numerical cap on the second phase of absorption?
45:58The answer is no.
46:00Defense officials say there will be no numerical limit on how many of the remaining Agniveers can be absorbed.
46:07But what is this eligibility criteria that's being spoken of?
46:13One, willingness to continue.
46:16If you're willing to remain in the armed forces, then you have your standard chance.
46:23But then it's not just willingness.
46:24It's also physical fitness.
46:27You have to remain physically fit to be absorbed in the armed forces.
46:32And three, discipline.
46:33Discipline will be a key consideration.
46:37No vigilance charges.
46:39No indiscipline.
46:40Another very important aspect that's being raised is about seniority.
46:45Will your seniority be maintained?
46:48And government officials are clarifying that the remaining 75% will also not lose their seniority from the initial lot.
46:58Once absorbed, they will immediately be placed with their own batch mates who entered the regular cadre after the first
47:06four years of initial tour of duty.
47:09They will not be junior to the subsequent batches.
47:14And finally, has the Agnipat scheme been rolled back?
47:19The government's answer is an emphatic no.
47:22The scheme remains in place with an additional two-year engagement period introduced to create a wider pathway into regular
47:32military service.
47:34News is coming in.
47:36Union Minister Hardeep Puri has been elected unopposed to Rajya Sabah from Madhya Pradesh.
47:44Hardeep Puri was declared elected by the returning officer, Umesh Sharma, on the last day of withdrawal of nominations.
47:52He, in fact, was the only candidate in the fray after the nomination papers of two other candidates were rejected
47:59during scrutiny.
48:00The Madhya Pradesh BJP chief, Hemant Khandelwal, collected Hardeep Puri's certificate of election from the returning officer in the presence
48:09of party MLA, Rameshwar Sharma.
48:13So, on the last day of the scrutiny of papers, the nomination of the other two candidates.
48:20Now, both the candidates who were backed by the opposition Congress were rejected.
48:26The bi-poll, if necessary, would have taken place on the 12th of November.
48:32The Rajya Sabah seat fell vacant after the resignation of former Union Minister El Murugan from the Rajya Sabah last
48:40month, which necessitated a bi-poll.
48:43So, Murugan's term was due to end on the 2nd of April, 2013.
48:49Now, amidst all this speculation over a cabinet reject, Hardeep Puri being elected to Rajya Sabah seems to suggest he
48:58will remain a key part of team Narendra Modi.
49:02I quickly want to cut across to my colleague, Aishwarya Paliwal, who's getting us the latest on this big story.
49:08So, Aishwarya, all that speculation that it's exit, you know, Hardeep Puri clearly not happening.
49:16Well, definitely, you know, Gaurav, this is something that, in fact, is on expected lines, because on the last day
49:22of the withdrawal,
49:23Hardeep Puri, in fact, was the sole candidate in the frame, as the papers of the other two nominees were,
49:28in fact, rejected after the scrutiny.
49:30And what is now being declared by the returning officer, Omeesh Sharma, is that unopposed, we are seeing BGP leader
49:40and the Union Petroleum Minister Hardeep Puri being elected unopposed from the Rajya Sabah seat in Madhya Pradesh.
49:46Gaurav, this was the same seat that he was vacated just a couple of days back by El Murugan, when
49:52he said that he wanted to go back to Tamil Nadu and work for the Bharatiya Janta Party in the
49:55state of Tamil Nadu.
49:57So, this is something which will keep the BJP, BJP's numbers intact, and also, all the speculation that was doing
50:03round Wittrick's cabinet fee shuffle, that is something which now, that speculation will die down, and also, you know, shows
50:12that the BJP has faith in Hardeep Puri and the kind of work that he's done over the past many
50:17years, Gaurav.
50:18Aishwarya, for the moment, many thanks for joining me, keep tracking that story, I will come back to you for
50:22more.
50:23I have to slip into a quick break here, on the other side, the other big story.
50:27Now, President Trump is in the line of fire, internally, after the debacle of the Republicans in the midterm elections.
50:36So, first, Jerry Vance, the Vice President, he blamed the Iran war for the midterm debacle.
50:42Now, President Trump agrees with him. Details coming up.
50:48So, the Republicans' setback in U.S. midterm elections has triggered a massive political storm within the Trump administration.
50:55U.S. Vice President Jerry Vance has identified the Iran war as the key reason behind their massive defeat.
51:03Jerry Vance admitted that the war caused Republicans' votes.
51:06Some of the very voters who voted Donald Trump in par in 2024 switched sides.
51:11They voted Democrats.
51:13President Trump defended his Iran policy.
51:15He acknowledged that the conflict may have contributed to the electoral loss.
51:19But Trump has partially blamed the Iran war for the outcome.
51:22He insisted if he had to take the same decision again, he would have taken the same decision once again.
51:28And I quickly want to cut across and bring in my colleague Sandeep Unithan for more on this.
51:33And Sandeep, Donald Trump may be seen as lame duck, but the fact does remain, even within the Republican Party,
51:41there are leaders who are distancing themselves from the Iran war and from President Trump.
51:46Is J.D. Vance the first to do so?
51:49Absolutely, Gaurav.
51:50You know, there are cracks that have shown up in the Trump administration post this debacle.
51:55I mean, people are calling it a landslide of historic proportions of the kind that we've not seen,
52:00at least in the 21st century.
52:02And now, J.D. Vance, the vice president, is someone who's had presidential ambitions.
52:07And it's very likely that with this very unprecedented post on X,
52:12600-word analysis of what went wrong, where he, as you mentioned,
52:17he's mentioned the fact that a lot of Republican voters turned out, but they all voted Democrat.
52:22And he has given out a roadmap of what the Republican Party needs to do to, you know,
52:27put up a fight in 2028, which is basically go back to their core voters, end the war in Iran,
52:34you know, reassess their, you know, ties with Israel, all of this.
52:38It was almost like a presidential stump speech, Gaurav.
52:41And the last 30 seconds, Sandeep, if I may, the Democrats, now when they want Trump to lawyer up,
52:49or team Trump to lawyer up, there may be more within the Republican fold who may abandon the president.
52:56Absolutely, Gaurav.
52:57And, you know, when Trump comes under attack, there are going to be a lot of people who are going
53:01to cut and,
53:02you know, cut loose, because they want to protect their political futures.
53:05They are very young politicians.
53:07Vance is in his 40s.
53:09Marco Rubio is also in his 40s.
53:11These are very young politicians who have a very long political career ahead of them.
53:16And if Trump goes down, they want to ensure that he doesn't take them all down with them.
53:20They want to continue, you know, in U.S. elections beyond a Trump presidency, which ends in two years from
53:26now.
53:26He's not going to get a third term.
53:27So, it's very clear that everyone's trying to, you know, secure their political...
53:31We want the Republicans to live to fight another day.
53:34And that's a story that Sandeep and I will be tracking very closely.
53:36Sandeep, many thanks for joining me.