- 14 hours ago
It's been 100 years since women gained the right to voite in New York, and over the last century, we've made major strides, but really, our struggle for complete equality is far from done. Since we launched in 2005, Refinery29 has made it its mission to be a catalyst for women to see, feel, and claim their power. And, in this special bonus episode, we sat down for a conversation with Amy Emmerich, Refinery29's Chief Content Officer, and Elisa Kreisinger aka PopCulturePirate and host of our sister podcast, "Strong Opinions Loosely Held" to mark this historic anniversary and how R29 continues to provide a safe place for women to tell and share their stories as a critical part of this Fourth Wave of feminism.
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00:01Welcome to Unstyled. I'm your host, Christine Barbrick, co-founder and global editor-in-chief
00:06of Refinery29. Each week, I invite a notable person to come in and talk with us as we explore
00:12the funny, inspiring, sometimes heartbreaking tales of life, work, and love, as told through
00:19the things that we wear. One of the benefits of hosting Unstyled is that I get to speak with
00:31women I've long admired, oftentimes from afar. But today is a little different. Today, I'm speaking
00:37with two incredible women whom I've had the privilege of working closely with on a regular
00:41basis. Amy Emmerich, our chief content officer, and Elisa Kreisinger, executive producer and the host
00:48creator of Refinery29's award-winning podcast, Strong Opinions Loosely Held, are two women who
00:55truly live out the mission we began crafting almost 13 years ago, to be the catalyst for women to see,
01:01feel, and claim their power. I ask them on today because this month marks just 100 years since
01:08women gained the right to vote in New York, a state which has long been at the epicenter of action
01:12and
01:13women's advocacy. Seneca Falls was the site of the first women's right convention, organized by
01:19Elizabeth Cady Stanton in 1848. And in 1872, Susan B. Anthony went to the polls in Rochester, New York,
01:26breaking the law and voting for the president. 100 years after Anthony's illegal vote, Gloria Steinem
01:33launched Ms. Magazine, giving voice to the growing second wave of feminism. Our headquarters are based in
01:39New York, but Refinery29's voice, reach, and purpose is global, especially when it comes to carrying on
01:47the tradition of resistance. In this fourth wave of feminism, our message is louder and more powerful
01:53than ever. Amy and Elisa are joining me today to talk about how, through this fourth wave, Refinery29
01:59is steering the potential for women's media. Amy joined us a little over two years ago to help build
02:05the best team in establishing our unique voice and video, particularly as it relates to women,
02:11including our award-winning Shatterbox Anthology short film series, which featured directorial
02:16debuts from the likes of Gaboray Sidibe and Kristen Stewart. And Elisa, also known as the Pop Culture
02:22Pirate, inspires us weekly with Strong Opinions Loosely Held, a podcast that naturally weaves themes of
02:28resistance with pop culture. Women not only have a right to shape the future of this country,
02:33they have a great responsibility to tell their stories and create the space for other women to
02:39do the same. And thanks to advocates like Amy and Elisa, Refinery29 keeps doing that, broadcasting
02:45the resistance and the revolution as it happens. Hi, Amy. Thank you so much for being a guest on
02:57on Style today. Thanks for having me. This past year has been extremely eventful. News erupting
03:04every, every day. It is our responsibility to be tracking that news and also to raise awareness
03:10around, around issues like sexual violence, gun control, the environment. Working together with
03:16our teams, we've realized, you know, the incredible responsibility that we hold. There's a lot of
03:21uncertainty. I think a lot of people feel uncertainty. What do you think our role is?
03:25Politics may not have been your jam before this world showed up. And I think what we have
03:30to do is highlight every bit of information that we can, so that people don't have any
03:37shame in the awareness level that they may have within the system right now. And they get
03:42more informed so that they take an action. When you talk about the suffragette movement and
03:46how they walked the streets themselves, right, to do things. And listen, that wasn't perfect
03:51either. However, right now we're seeing tons of protests and what's next? What do you do
03:56after you protest and then you get home? Is it the small things and how you support the
04:00choirs and that are like raising up hope and you're somebody who can donate money or participate?
04:05Are you making signs or are you running for office? There is such opportunity right now when
04:10we see hashtag me too. And not only because that is starting around what's happening with Weinstein
04:16today, but it's learning what happened 10 years ago that Tarana Burke actually started
04:19that organization. And how come we're all not aware of that? So that suffragette movement
04:25was always about the one thing of the vote and how now today we have millions of those movements
04:31all fighting for so many things. And we're doing our best to support them all.
04:35You came to launch our video in a very aggressive way and you were pregnant at the time. And we
04:41knew
04:41that if we hired you, you were going to sort of basically kick off your tenure on maternity leave,
04:47which was totally fine with me. But it was pretty clear shortly after you came that you had a much
04:53bigger purview over the impact of our content. And it became really clear that a lot of the principles
05:00that you were building into our video operation and the team that you were bringing together
05:08really had so much value across all of our content. And as a founder, I was really excited about that
05:15and excited about the experience that you brought to the table that was so different from my experience
05:20and the rest of our founders and a lot of the rest of our executives. You grew up in Queens.
05:24I grew up
05:25on Long Island. We're about the same age. So I know that we probably encountered a lot of the same
05:31stereotyping. Both of the industries that we came up in really favored a lot of privilege and a lot
05:36of pedigree. And I didn't come from that background. I know that you didn't either.
05:40No. Obviously, coming from a place where we didn't have much money, I tend to be a very big mama
05:46bear
05:46for those that are ignored or underrepresented. And I think in this case, it was definitely
05:50had opened my eyes to the world that women were playing in that I didn't realize it myself.
05:55I think I also just ignored it because I was taught to push through, just keep going,
05:59always a hustler, nonstop. That's how my mind works. And to walk into a place that you guys
06:03had big dreams and you also gave me the room to dream in, right? I didn't have the answers,
06:09but you gave me literally a space to say, dream big. And what do you want to do? And how
06:14do we do
06:14it? That was a first. You'd spent about a year or so advice before you came to us and which
06:20is more
06:20of a male centric environment. What was appealing to you about coming to a place that made content for
06:27women, you know, that is basically run by mostly women?
06:30I learned so much advice in a short period of time, but I was going through a personal situation,
06:37trying to have a baby and walking into refinery. It was very literally transparent and bright.
06:43The office was painted white. The windows were all open. The energy was there like a kind of youth.
06:49And then meeting so many women like yourself, I think, who are really owning who they were. I don't
06:55know how else to describe it. You guys already each had your own voice. And it was, you know,
07:00to be fair too, it was very equal at the time. It was Philip and Justin meeting you, Piera. There
07:05was a female CRO. You know what I mean? There was, it was an equal playing field in the room
07:09that day
07:09when I had to present for that job. And I didn't think I wanted that job. I was pregnant when
07:14I was with
07:14my second child. I said, this is nuts. Who even takes this interview? And then I walked out that
07:20day and called my husband and said, Oh, I think I want this. So let's see what happens. But I
07:25think
07:26the energy, you know, I go a lot by gut. I could feel it more than I can lay words
07:31on it. This is
07:32another big opportunity. And you guys just had an energy in the office that I had not ever seen.
07:37Wow. You definitely contribute to that now.
07:40I'm sure.
07:42Tell me about your first experiences with female mentorship.
07:44You know, it's funny because I don't know if I knew what feminist or feminism was growing up. It
07:49wasn't something that was discussed. You didn't know what was happening. So when I think about all
07:53my first bout of feminism, I mean, I think sisterhood, which is, I know a word you use is easier
07:59because
07:59I can say that I've always been very lucky that I've had good girlfriends. There's that saying,
08:04you can never trust a girl who doesn't have good girlfriends.
08:07You have a really tight circle of girlfriends for a long time.
08:10Yeah. I've been very lucky from the high schoolers who are practically like my extended
08:14family and sisters who I've known for 25 plus years, my best friend from college, who's the
08:20godmother of my child. And so I've always had that kind of group of women that stood up for one
08:25another. And those relationships are always very complex as a group and as individuals. And what
08:30do you supply to one another and what's needed? But the professionally, it's probably oxygen was the
08:36first time that I think we were really standing up for one another and supporting one another in our
08:42profession, which was really unheard of in a time when there wasn't social media. And we all had met
08:49each other. Oxygen had hired so many women. You know, Jerry Laborn launched that in 99. And I've never
08:55worked with so many women at the same time. And that was for a couple of years. And as we
08:59all went freelance
09:00over time, it wasn't that they were your competitors. It was a sisterhood of, hey, you never know who's going
09:05to get
09:05this job. Timing when you're a freelancer is always different. And we would email one another, hey, I
09:10heard about this gig if you want to go in for it with me. No problem. And that's probably like
09:15my first
09:15memory. You genuinely, genuinely care about women and their stories.
09:27You were a producer at Rosie O'Donnell.
09:31Intern.
09:32You started out as an intern.
09:33I started as an intern and then a PA and an AP.
09:37What did you learn there? And why were you drawn to that form of storytelling?
09:40What didn't I learn there? It was the first job I had ever had. Rosie was a force. She was
09:45someone
09:45I had already admired as a stand-up comic. She was doing stand-up comedy on VH1.
09:50She's from Long Island.
09:51She's from Long Island too. She took on some aggressive topics like the NRA and seeing how she
09:57had to handle that. I don't think anyone is prepared to handle that, especially back then.
10:01Rosie really did believe in real people. There was something about just really talking one-on-one
10:07to the average citizen and highlighting how good they were and how special they were. And it gave
10:14me the bug to want to be out in the field and to meet those people and to really help
10:18tell their
10:18stories.
10:19And you actually went out and reported a documentary on a reservation, right?
10:23Shooting docs. I loved it. I just felt like we were really telling the real stories of people's
10:29lives in a way that no one had seen. But unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how much you love
10:33reality TV, reality TV started to take over. So we weren't really shooting the real. We were kind of
10:40crafting the reality a little too much for me. And I was shooting something for New York Times
10:47television called Residence. And it was about life in the ER. And I was going from room to room after
10:53patients had very serious surgeries. And I was, I just couldn't take it. It was very depressing.
11:00I got to see a heart surgery, a harvesting, which is where they take somebody apart and harvest the
11:05organs. And then it goes on to do two kidney transplants, a heart transplant. But every day,
11:09I'd have to go visit them to see if they were alive. And the stress of that alone in the
11:14hospital
11:14day in and day out, I just was like, I don't know. And then trying to fake the reality of
11:19interviews.
11:19I'm like, this isn't for me anymore. I got to change it up.
11:22That's really tough.
11:23Yeah, it was, it was, I mean, again, an experience, but it was, I realized it was time for me
11:28to come out
11:28of the field.
11:29I had the pleasure of going to the Courage in Journalism Awards. There was a special moment where
11:34Rachel Maddow interviewed Andrea Mitchell, who was being honored. The thing that Rachel Maddow
11:39brought up is she said in the beginning, it's so important to say yes, but there's a critical part
11:43in your career when you have to start saying no. And that's when you start to really develop your
11:48leadership and your vision and your voice is knowing when to say no, that, you know what,
11:52that's somebody else's job. This is my job.
11:54Get out there and say something because saying nothing is not the place you want to be. And I think
11:59that is part of learning who your voice is.
12:01Yes. Our brand and our audience are in such good hands with you in this role.
12:05This role comes with so much privilege that I probably had never had before in my life. I
12:10can only hope I will ever know it again. You know, maybe my brother read me too many comic
12:14books, but with great power comes great responsibility. And I just feel that to the core and to the bone
12:19we were just joined by a special guest, Alisa Kreisinger, who a little bit of trivia was
12:36Unstyled's first executive producer. I have you to thank for helping me bring this beautiful
12:42podcast to life.
12:44Thank you. And I have, I have Amy Emmerich to thank for sending out an email on Sunday
12:48night a few years ago saying, podcast, I think we should do it. Who wants to start it?
12:53I said, I'll do it.
12:55That's pretty much how it works. We have a real big process at Refinery.
12:58Well, first of all, your handle is PopCulturePirate. Where does that come from?
13:03PopCulturePirate comes from this idea that I'm diving into a stereotype here, but I'm going to lean in.
13:08And it's based on the fact that in order to survive in popular culture and in culture in
13:13general, women need to make their own culture. And in order to do so, they need to loot and plunder
13:18in order to survive.
13:20You launched our podcast division. Thank you for that.
13:23You're welcome.
13:24The podcast that you launched is called Strong Opinions Listly Held, and it's been really successful.
13:30Why don't you describe what the origin was for that?
13:33We used to end emails with, or start and start emails with, hey guys, Strong Opinions
13:38Listly Held here, but I think we should do X, Y, and Z.
13:42So it was a disclaimer.
13:43It was a disclaimer. And it was a way that like in typical lady fashion that I was putting down
13:48my opinion, I didn't want to come off too strong.
13:52Exclamation points aren't my thing, you know, so I wouldn't follow it up with like three
13:57exclamation points. But I wanted to soften it and just be like, hey, I have this opinion
14:01open to others, totally willing to talk about it.
14:06Not overbearing or anything.
14:08Right, right. It was just a way that I would soften it. And it was, you know, it was a
14:12lady
14:12thing I did. But so Strong Opinions Listly Held, that's how that was where I got the name
14:17for it. And I thought if we could have a space where I had opinions, people, I would talk
14:21to women mostly who had opinions about things, mostly rooted in data and research, though.
14:26I mean, they had to be based in something that we could build out a space for those opinions
14:31to flourish and talk about things. And one of the big topics I wanted to talk about were
14:37big popular culture questions that I had, like, why do people hate Taylor Swift? Why
14:42do people watch HGTV? Why don't male bosses still get it in 2017? Are internet influencers
14:48like are the women on Instagram actually making bank? There were these questions I had, and I
14:53realized that either public policy could answer them or academic research could answer them.
14:58But they had to be couched in, again, this popular culture lens. So the goal was to use
15:03popular culture as a spoonful of sugar to make those sociopolitical conversations and pop
15:08culture conversations go down a little bit easier.
15:17What do either of you hope that we can achieve next year as we continue to move through this
15:22really confusing time?
15:24I mean, look, when you talk about midterm elections next year, the ultimate dream for me would be that
15:28any female running, our job is to make them as famous as Kim Kardashian, which might seem very
15:33lofty, but I think there's...
15:34Not at all.
15:35You know, there's got to be a way that we can wake up, again, part of our responsibility to
15:39our audience is that we are supposed to service her so that it's easier for her to find the
15:43information. And if she is looking for something that she already loves because of her own
15:47opinions, we can provide right next to that, hey, just so you're aware, how many of these
15:52women are running next year? What are they running for? Why you should care about this for many
15:56different reasons, no matter where you sit, but get active. We're very good at, you know,
16:01marketing too. And if we are able to help build some of these women that are running and their
16:06brands, which I think is always a big part of us, even with PCP here, I think that's going to
16:10be the
16:10biggest impact that we can have next year. It's trying to drive action.
16:13Yeah. And supporting the women who are running and support younger women to run in the future as
16:19well. I talked to Kirsten Gillibrand last season, and one of the big issues that she hit upon was if
16:25there were more elected officials who were women, you would see the type of changes that we talk about in
16:29our Facebook feed that affect us every day that allow us to go get birth control for free, that
16:35allow us to have affordable, high quality childcare and healthcare. And I think that, you know, hearing
16:40her perspective from being on the floor and fighting for these things, if people got it, if her colleagues
16:44got it, then it would happen. That was a wake up call for me. So I think supporting women, but
16:50also
16:50encouraging women to run for office really helps us get those things that we need to make our lives
16:55easier. Kirsten Gillibrand, 2020. Yeah. And Kamala. I love Kamala. Kamala is incredible.
17:01Yeah. Think about that change, right? This was not a conversation that I could have had. I'm just
17:06saying working at Refinery, but also the world has evolved where we can have those conversations
17:09where people are getting to know who these names are. And that is even the first step. So now the
17:13next one next year has got to be get more active and the topics that you should care about and
17:18what
17:18you should support and why. And it's going to happen, right? It's going to happen. It's happening.
17:22Women aren't going to say, hey, you know what? We were totally wrong. We're going to stop voting.
17:26We're going to stop having orgasms. We're going to stop driving cars. We're going to stop being
17:30on juries. You know what I mean? Like the change is coming. It's not like we're going to wake up
17:34and
17:34be like, oh, fuck, we are so wrong about that. It's just slow. And we need to just be patient
17:40and
17:41keep fighting for the stuff that we want to see and support the women that we want to see do
17:45it.
17:46And I have hope in that respect. I just think, I think you're right. It's changing. I think it's still
17:50just changing from a top-down approach. So as we talk about intersectionality at the office every
17:57single day and what, when I came to refinery, we talked about supporting women all of the time.
18:03And Chelsea from our comms team said to me, it's time for you to start talking about women of color
18:09very differently than when we say women and separating that out and fighting for that. And I
18:13think I see the change, but I can, it's almost like in the matrix taking the blue pill and now
18:19you
18:19can't unsee the challenges for everyone up ahead. And so the fight is going to be, yes,
18:25change is coming, but how do you fight to make sure the change is affecting everyone? That's going
18:29to be the next battle. Amy and Elisa, thank you so much for being on Unstyled today. And thank you
18:35more so for being such important forces in Refinery29's future. Thank you.
18:41Right back at you. Yeah. Thanks.
18:43Right back at you.
18:49I hope you're inspired after hearing my conversation with Amy and Elisa.
18:53For even more Unstyled extras, check out Refinery29 or my Instagram at Christine Barbrick.
18:59You can also join the conversation using the hashtag Unstyled across your social media. And of course,
19:05we'd be infinitely grateful if you'd please subscribe to Unstyled on Apple Podcasts
19:09and rate us while you're there. You can head to Refinery29.com to find this episode and more
19:15and make sure to sign up for our exclusive Unstyled newsletter delivered straight to your inbox every
19:20week. Our show today was executive produced by Sarah Bernard, associate produced by Rebecca Easley
19:26and edited by Priscilla Mena. Copy support was provided by Tommy Fitzpatrick. Our theme music today is by the
19:33artist Koff and we recorded Unstyled with Paul Ruist at Argo Studios. We'll see you back here next
19:39Monday for a conversation with Alexa Chung on the life of the ultimate fashion outsider insider.