00:07Oh my god this story is killing me. There's a group of men's rights activists suing women's
00:14organizations for meeting without men and it's threatening the financial stability of those
00:20women's organizations. One of those organizations was Ladies Get Paid. Claire Wasserman started
00:25Ladies Get Paid because I was really upset that 60% of today's college graduates are women but
00:31actually less than 22% of us are making it past middle management. And then I realized that money
00:44really is at the end of it and I also realized that none of my girlfriends and I were talking
00:48about money and we needed a place to talk. Claire hosted events for women all over the country to
00:53talk about how to negotiate salaries and eventually close the wage gap. One member of Ladies Get Paid
00:59left an event and successfully negotiated an $11,000 raise. Another member of Ladies Get Paid negotiated
01:06a $15,000 raise. Ladies Get Paid grew to reach over 30,000 women across the country. So you hosted
01:14an
01:15all-women's event? So all of our events were for all women. Now they're not. The reason that I made
01:20our events for female identifying and non-binary people only is because the premise of everything
01:26that we talk about are basically really sensitive, vulnerable, intimate issues that we experience
01:31at work as women. And it just was like if we had men in the room how could we possibly
01:35feel
01:36comfortable enough to share these intimate details about our life, you know? Especially talking
01:41about harassment. Sexual harassment, assault at work. I did not even consider it to be sexual discrimination.
01:47Claire was sued for violating the Unruh Civil Rights Act, which I had never heard of before. But I'd also
01:53never heard of a woman being sued for gender discrimination against a man before. So I reached
01:59out to Claire's attorney, Megan Caesar Eastman, to find out what was going on. Megan is based in
02:05California, so I called her in the one place I knew we would not be sued for excluding men from.
02:10The
02:11women's bathroom. Hey, Megan. Hi. Thanks so much for chatting with me today. Thank you for having me.
02:18Okay, so can you tell me a little bit about the Unruh Civil Rights Act? So the Unruh Civil Rights
02:24Act is one
02:25of California's civil rights laws, and it prohibits businesses from discriminating in the provision of
02:31services to those different protected categories. How is it used in a new way in this Ladies Get
02:42Paid case? Ladies Get Paid, the company, is an organization dedicated to bridging the equality
02:49gap between men and women in the workplace. They decided to hold some meetings. They made a decision
02:54to exclude men to create a safe place. There were a few men that attempted to come to these meetings
03:01who were part of a national men's rights organization. They were denied entry and then
03:07subsequently sued. Ladies Get Paid for gender discrimination. The purpose of this law, which
03:13is promoting equality among all different types of people, and is the same purpose of this organization.
03:19So it felt really inconsistent with the law's purpose. And as an attorney,
03:24is that something that you've seen happen often?
03:28These plaintiffs and this lawyer have been involved in a number of lawsuits, including
03:31numerous lawsuits targeting women's organizations. But this is the first time in my career I've seen
03:37civil rights laws applied in this way, as a sword to sort of cut down a group dedicated to women's
03:43equality rather than as a shield for a victim. So I reached out to the attorney suing Ladies Get
03:48Paid, but unfortunately he was unavailable for an on-camera interview citing a disability.
03:53But he did point out that he spent the last 15 years successfully suing over 300 businesses and
04:00organizations for discrimination against men under the Unruh Civil Rights Act. He successfully sued
04:07Club Med for not including men in a ladies-only discount and won almost a million dollars. And he
04:14successfully sued the Oakland A's for not giving men a promotional floppy sun hat on Mother's Day. And he won
04:22half a million dollars. Ladies Get Paid settled with the men's rights activists for an undisclosed amount.
04:28It's very expensive to go to court, even if you believe that you can win. In this case, if we
04:34were to lose, we
04:35actually would have to pay the legal fees of the other side. It was financially responsible to settle. As painful
04:41as that was.
04:42Yeah.
04:43Ladies Get Paid became Ladies Get Sued. The lawsuit financially crippled the organization. Until their story went viral.
04:53Claire raised $100,000 in three weeks to cover her legal fees. Clearly the case resonated with people.
05:01I think it exemplifies how threatening equality can be to groups that have historically benefited from
05:08inequality. And I think it certainly highlights the importance of people like Claire to continue to do their work.
05:14My impression and understanding is that they do truly believe in their own mission, which is that men
05:19are now being discriminated against to the benefit of women. It's kind of a shocking idea for me to hear.
05:25Megan has a point. Women are almost twice as likely as men to say that they've experienced
05:31gender discrimination at work. And over half of black women say that they've experienced at least
05:38one type of gender discrimination at work. And how could we forget that corporate America remains
05:43male dominated. Of the 500 CEOs on the S&P 500 list, only 25 are women. 25 out of 500.
05:54That's pretty bad.
05:56And not all men are bad. There's definitely a role for men in this conversation.
06:01Of course there are men who want to be allies. But guess what? Those men reach out and ask,
06:05how can I be an ally? I guess male allies don't sue organizations fighting for gender equality.
06:11Just a hunch. You know, when you come together with a group of women and you want to talk about
06:15work
06:15and money, that's political. We're more powerful and radical than we even know. And now I've certainly
06:22woken up. Everybody who interviews me gets angry emails from him. But that's not, you know, that doesn't
06:27stop me from speaking out. And I certainly hope it doesn't stop publications from wanting to write
06:31about the story. I'm really looking forward to him reaching out. I'm so excited. Well, did he reach out?
06:38Not yet, but I did ask him for his advice to young women. And he said it was to treat
06:43everyone equally,
06:44no matter their sex, race, religion, or sexual orientation. Okay, that's time. It's such a good story.
06:52I'm a fan of the story.
06:52It's been a great story.
06:54I'm a fan of the story.
06:55It's been a great story.
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