00:00Okay, Lisa, I'm ready for you.
00:02Do you think this article was ghostwritten?
00:05Pretty sure it was.
00:10I only asked because I was at this book release party
00:13and I was casually talking to the woman next to me
00:15at the bar and after a few minutes of back and forth,
00:18I was like, so what do you do?
00:20And she said,
00:21I wrote the book we're celebrating.
00:22I said, but you're not the author.
00:24And then she said,
00:26I'm the ghost writer.
00:27I was shocked.
00:28So I asked her,
00:30do you mind not getting any of the credit for your work?
00:32And she said,
00:33not as long as my name is on the check.
00:36Ghostwriting is a pretty ballsy career choice.
00:39You do all of the work,
00:40but you don't get any of the fame,
00:42the press or the praise.
00:44I mean, that's kind of the best part of writing a book,
00:47right? The fame.
00:47How else are you going to meet Oprah?
00:49Now you all know I love a good book.
00:51New York Times bestselling author.
00:53The next big thing in literature.
00:55Ghostwriting fascinates me because throughout history,
00:58in every industry,
01:00women have done a lot of the work,
01:02but haven't exactly gotten the credit for it.
01:04Study after study after study shows that women get less credit
01:08than men in the workplace.
01:09As if you needed a study to tell you that.
01:11But female ghostwriters are essentially monetizing this dynamic
01:15of doing all of the work and not getting any of the credit.
01:18And they are making bank.
01:20So obviously I had to reach out to a ghostwriter to find out more.
01:24So I sat down with New York Times and Amazon bestselling ghostwriter, Jodi Lipper.
01:33Throughout history, women have done the majority of the work,
01:37but not gotten the credit.
01:38And there are studies to show that this happens still today.
01:41How does that affect you in your industry?
01:43Because I feel like that's such a unique position for you in ghostwriting.
01:47Well, first of all, I work with a lot of female authors.
01:49I also work with a lot of authors who are people of color,
01:52and I really make an effort to find those people
01:55and help get their voices out there.
01:57That's really important to me.
01:58So I feel good about that.
01:59Some of the male ghostwriters who are at the top of the field
02:02do fight more for cover credit with so-and-so,
02:06more so than some of the top female ghostwriters.
02:08And this is really a female-dominated field.
02:10A lot of the top writers out there are women.
02:13The men that I talk to the most that are in this field
02:15don't call themselves ghostwriters at all.
02:17What do they call themselves then?
02:19Collaborative writers or co-writers.
02:21And they're the ones who more often do get credit.
02:23So how about how many books do you write a year?
02:26What's like an average number?
02:27I'd say the average has been about two to three.
02:30That's amazing.
02:31So you're banging out two to three a year.
02:33Yeah.
02:33Do you get credit for that number of books?
02:36Because that's a lot of writing.
02:37No, I get paid for each one, but that's it.
02:40So of the New York Times bestseller list,
02:43how many are ghostwritten would you say?
02:45You don't have to name names.
02:47For nonfiction, I would say almost all, probably.
02:50I think most people would be shocked,
02:52but within the industry, it's not a secret at all.
02:55People know that anyone with a big enough platform
02:58to sell that many books, they've got a lot of help.
03:01One thing that fascinates me about ghostwriting is that
03:04women have monetized the idea of doing all of the work,
03:07but getting none of the credit.
03:09Are you guys making bank?
03:11If you want a very experienced ghostwriter who's going to deliver something that's really
03:14polished and ready to be published, it's going to cost you.
03:17And to me, it's not about getting credit and having my name on the book.
03:21It's about knowing that I've helped them tell their story.
03:23I feel that I get credit for my contributions by the author, by the editor,
03:29by the people who know what I do and who work with me.
03:32My brand is not having a brand.
03:34My brand is being able to capture other authors' voices.
03:37So I think that's a big part of actually the skill set of being a ghostwriter,
03:40is that ability to connect with different people because you have to earn that trust.
03:46Your brand is anti-brand.
03:47My brand is anti-brand.
03:49I don't feel the need to have a public brand.
03:51Right.
03:51What's the hot gossip in the ghostwriter network?
03:55The hot gossip is really how can we elevate this profession.
03:59Some ghostwriters would say that we have the hardest job in the publishing industry.
04:03We have to make the author happy.
04:05We have to make the editor happy.
04:07And if there's ever a conflict between an editor and an author, or an agent and an author,
04:14the ghostwriter can get caught in the middle and kind of blamed if things go downhill.
04:18And that is definitely a negative side to this job.
04:23I'd say.
04:24So that's probably the biggest gossip is just how can we elevate this and protect ourselves
04:30so that we have more control over our lives and our careers.
04:33And we're not kind of getting thrown under the bus if someone else doesn't do their job.
04:37So what advice would you give for young women who want to be writers,
04:41but don't necessarily know what path to take to make that a sustainable career choice?
04:46I would just want them to know that this is an option.
04:48It's something that people don't really know about because it is so secret and hidden.
04:52But meanwhile, it's a lucrative career that's, I would say, strictly creative.
04:57It's just writing.
04:59That's something that's really important for women who want a career.
05:02As a kid, I had such anxiety about not being able to finish an entire series of my favorite book.
05:07And now I know why.
05:10There was a new Babysitter's Club book every other week with the help of...
05:15How was I going to read all of the Sweet Valley High books?
05:18Francine Pascal was putting out 181 books with the help of...
05:23So this week, I had back-to-back meetings,
05:26a ton of emails to respond to, and a presentation to give.
05:29So guess what I did?
05:32How's that going?
05:33She's great, but I never see her.
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