- 4 minutes ago
Ramona Shelburne, who covers the NBA for ESPN, joins Willard and Dibs to break down the Warriors season.
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00:00Now, back to Willard and Dibs.
00:03Oh, just determined to get me aggregated, huh?
00:06Yep.
00:08Yep.
00:08You know what my Twitter feed will look like if I answer your question?
00:12On 95.7 The Game.
00:14Yeah, that's what we do.
00:16We call Ramona, and then we try to get her aggregated,
00:19and we're going to try to do it again.
00:22And then she gets aggravated, and then she gets over it,
00:25and then she comes back on the show because she's our friend.
00:27So here we are, Willard and Dibs, 95.7 The Game,
00:30live Thrive City Plaza out here at Splash where the vibe is starting to turn up
00:35because the home opener is only hours away,
00:38and we go out to the River Island's guest line to welcome in our friend from ESPN,
00:43Ramona Shelburne.
00:44Hi, Momo.
00:44How you doing?
00:45I'm good.
00:47I finally caught that Elizabeth Holmes movie.
00:49So I was talking to a friend about it when you called.
00:52I was like, oh, super thought-provoking, especially for, you know,
00:56she's a Stanford grad like me, so we're also, you know, some of the same people.
01:02That was very interesting.
01:04Love that.
01:05Love that.
01:05And speaking of thought-provoking, Jaxel Lundeborg, your thoughts?
01:11Dude.
01:12Dude.
01:14Right?
01:15I mean, look, I was there that night, and we were listening to Luka,
01:19and Luka came out first, like, really early, even before J.J. Reddick talked,
01:23so we weren't able to say to Luka, hey, guess what Jaxel just said about you, right?
01:28Right.
01:28Like, we didn't, it wasn't like the timing was a little off.
01:31He had already, Luka had already spoken.
01:32And, like, I get why Jaxel said that.
01:36Like, you're in the moment.
01:37You're competitive.
01:38You didn't like playing against Sky because he was chirping all game.
01:41But, like, you've got to wait until after you win.
01:44Like, you don't talk trash like that after you've got your butt kicked, you know?
01:48Like, it's, I don't know.
01:52That's, like, kind of, like, I just, you know, just from a, you're going to win this round,
01:57you know, if you want allies, if you want people to, like, take what you said seriously,
02:02you kind of have to wait until you have the right hand to play.
02:06Maybe, yeah.
02:07Maybe he doesn't want allies.
02:08And I wonder about, you know, what the reaction around the league might be when you see a
02:13rook, not only a rookie, but a guy in his first game coming out that hard.
02:19Yeah.
02:19Like, I mean, to me, I'm always like, you know, wait till you do something.
02:23Like, don't, you know, like, wait till you have a good game or you say something and you
02:27can, you shut him down or whatever.
02:29Like, you know, who could have had a good game?
02:32Like, he hit a shot right in front of your face.
02:33Like, I don't know, like, it wasn't a sparkling season opener for your dubs up there.
02:40I mean, I was watching this game going, I don't think the Lakers are this good and I don't,
02:45I don't think the Warriors are this bad, but, but it was not a good showing for the dubs.
02:50Like, it was, it was ugly in that second half.
02:52And I, I, I hope they're better than that because that wasn't a good showing at all.
02:57We do too.
02:58Yes, I, I think we, we, we share that, that, that thought with you, Ramona Shelburne is
03:03with us.
03:04Ramona, I wonder where you think this goes next.
03:06And when I say this, I, I am talking about just the Yaxo Lundenborg experience.
03:11I had made the comment the other day, I've never seen in the history of sports, someone
03:16speak like that after their very first game, but I'm sure you've watched brash young rookies
03:22come into the game before.
03:23Like, I'm thinking D'Angelo Russell.
03:25I remember talking to you about that years ago.
03:27You're like, oh, this is a, this is a lot, but like, what do you think that the world
03:33does sort of make him crawl under a shell or is his personality just, this is what it
03:40is.
03:40And this is the way it's going to be.
03:42I think this is what it is.
03:44And it's what it's going to be.
03:45I mean, and I also think that Mark and I, and you can go ahead and aggregate this.
03:49Okay.
03:50All right.
03:50Um, you and I are old.
03:53Okay.
03:53We are not of this generation.
03:56We come from a different generation where what I said of like, wait till you do something,
04:02don't talk about it until you can be about it.
04:04Like that.
04:05I don't know that those rules apply anymore.
04:07It might be totally different.
04:09And I, I think we're in this, I don't know, Yax is always on Tik TOK and Instagram and
04:13like, you know, LeVar ball was kind of a phenomenon of this guy.
04:18Like, let me speak it into existence and on and on and on.
04:22And, you know, I, I, I kind of, I, I, LeVar for whatever you want to say to him, he
04:28captured
04:28our attention.
04:29He was interesting.
04:31Um, and two of his three kids were lottery picks.
04:34So maybe he was right.
04:35You know, like he was, he did it.
04:38He's spoken into existence.
04:39I kind of think that's how the younger generation approaches life.
04:44And like, I know a bit of Yax's story.
04:47I know why people like him.
04:48I, I, I've been charmed by the story.
04:51I don't know him personally yet.
04:53I mean, I met his, met him very briefly at the game, um, at his agents.
04:57They were nice people.
04:58Like I, you know, clearly he has a hell of a story, right.
05:01Of how he sort of, you know, he's a, to say he's a late bloomer is, is, is, is an
05:06understatement.
05:07Okay.
05:07Um, he resurrected himself after going down the wrong path for a bit.
05:11And it's, it's really a great story.
05:13And maybe that's how he did it.
05:14Maybe he just put stuff out there and realized, you know, I gotta, I gotta just put it out
05:20there and bet on myself.
05:21And like, uh, you know, Joel Embiid kind of used to do this too.
05:25He used to talk, but he, you know, he backed it up pretty quickly.
05:28Like he was blocking everyone.
05:29He was really good.
05:30He was, I actually, but I, I still can't believe I did this, but I think I was, I still
05:34feel
05:34good about it, but I voted for Embiid as rookie of the year.
05:37He played like 30 something games.
05:38I, he was so good in the 37 games he played.
05:42I was like, you know, and I think the other option, I think the guy who wanted that year
05:46was, um, like Malcolm Brogdon.
05:48Right.
05:48I think that's, I think that's, that was the choice.
05:50And I was like, when I look back on this vote, we're all going to wonder how Embiid wasn't
05:54the, wasn't the rookie of the year.
05:55Like, and I just, you know, Brogdon had a fine stat line.
05:59It was, you know, I think I put him second.
06:00He ended up winning, but like, I don't know, like, yeah, he, he performed well in the preseason.
06:06And, you know, Draymond is like cheering him on.
06:08Draymond, Draymond's like his corner, man.
06:11It's amazing.
06:12Um, I think it's a fun dynamic and, and, you know, poor Ray Ritter's over there in the
06:17corner, you know, okay.
06:20Well, you know, Ray's the greatest because he just kind of lets people be who they are.
06:27And I'm sure he probably had a few conversations with him and I'm sure Steve Kerr will, but
06:32that'll be fun.
06:33Whatever.
06:33Put it out there.
06:34Be a character.
06:34Yeah.
06:35Put it out there and back it up.
06:37That's, yeah, that's kind of been what we've been hearing.
06:39And I wonder about his message, Ramona, if it isn't something that we've all been waiting
06:44to hear from a fellow player, because I look at the league right now and it seems like there's
06:48so much embellishment and so much floppery.
06:52Were his words like really something that needed to be said?
06:55Oh, I'd be, everybody says that about Luca, right?
06:58I mean, that's not a, that's not a new critique like that, that Luca talks a lot or he wines
07:03a lot or he's, you know, that's like a, that's, that's been said for years.
07:07It just hasn't been said like that by a rookie, you know?
07:13And, and, and there's a sort of, you know, we, we come from this generation where we think
07:18you have to like earn your place in the world and your, your stature to have opinions like
07:23that.
07:23And I don't think the kids these days, if I can sound ancient by saying that, I don't
07:28think they operate by the same rules we do.
07:32Ramona Shelburne, ESPN with us on Willard and Dibbs.
07:35Okay.
07:36Bigger picture warriors, because this won't surprise you.
07:40The fan base right now is, is, is frustrated.
07:43I get it, but I also sometimes question, I don't know what it is.
07:48The Warriors were supposed to do, uh, at least in the big fish market, especially with Jimmy
07:53Hurt, but with their financial structure, what's coming off of the books and what may
07:59or may not be available going forward.
08:01What do you think is out there for the Warriors in the Steph Curry era?
08:07I'll say it that way.
08:09Okay.
08:09This is a bit of a hot take Mark, but I actually think the Warriors are very well positioned.
08:16Okay.
08:17Um, they have, they control six of the next seven draft picks, first round picks.
08:22Do you know how valuable first round picks are now?
08:24Because of the changes to the lottery system, to the tanking, like it used to just be, oh,
08:29we, we only want the first round pick of the teams that are going to be really bad.
08:33Now everybody's got a chance to win, right?
08:35You gotta, they're, they're not weighted the way they used to be.
08:38They're weighted, but not as severely as they used to be.
08:40So those first round picks, like all summer, everybody was kind of wondering, like, how are
08:45you going to value first round picks going forward?
08:47And I, and I think there's a lot of disparate opinions on how you do that.
08:51Um, so, uh, this is all, this is all new territory, but they have a lot of picks that they
08:56can still
08:57offer.
08:57They, they offered four of them to Milwaukee and they didn't want Giannis.
09:00I mean, Giannis didn't, Milwaukee didn't want their picks, right?
09:02Like they wanted Giannis and Milwaukee didn't want their picks.
09:05So, okay.
09:06But there's a lot of other players who make a lot of money and maybe teams don't want to pay
09:12them,
09:13or maybe they want to get their books in order, or maybe they want those picks.
09:16And, and I think they're very well positioned to make a splash here.
09:19Now, all of it, taking trading picks for money, right?
09:23That are sending out, let's say you send out Porzingis' contract and as people do that,
09:27it's a sort of, you know, it's a, it's an expiring deal.
09:29Only three, three million of it's guaranteed, right?
09:32That, that, that you'd have to send out a lot more to get a big fish.
09:35But that also means that big fish is on your books, right?
09:38Like if you revisit the Anthony Davis conversation, well, if you trade for him, you're going to
09:43have to pay him.
09:44He's up for an extension.
09:46So that's, that's, that, that limits what you're going to do.
09:49But, you know, if you go after a, like who is good centers in the league right now that
09:54they need, that would be look at Laurie Markkinen as a frequent name you hear, right?
09:58Or Car Towns or, or, you know, what, I think it's, I think there's, you can name any, any
10:06good player on a, on a, that could be available that they could pursue with those kinds of
10:11picks.
10:11And the, the problem becomes then you have to pay them.
10:15And that does blow up all this carefully hoarded salary job space that they have and
10:20all these clean books that you have.
10:21But for the right deal, I think they're well positioned and at the right player.
10:25And I, I, I don't know.
10:27I mean, look, they clearly don't have a good enough team now.
10:30That was the Lakers, the Lakers are good, but you know, Walker Kessler's not Jokic out
10:35there.
10:36You know, I, I, I don't know how they're going to do against the top flight of the Western
10:41conference or the Eastern conference.
10:43Like with this, with this squad, they're, they're not big enough.
10:46They don't have enough firepower.
10:47If Porzingis was able to play or healthy or whatever, that would help, but it's still not
10:53enough to, to really be a contender.
10:55They're still, they're waiting on this opportunistic move and, and it may not be a big fish.
11:00Like, you know, maybe it's, maybe it's a smaller fish.
11:04Maybe it's like a Daniel Gafford type or somebody, somebody in that category that can still be
11:09better than what you have.
11:11And you don't have to pay a lot.
11:12I don't know.
11:13We'll see, we'll see where they net out, but I, I like the way their books look.
11:16And I like all the draft picks because not a lot of teams have that.
11:19What do you think is the viability of Kyle Anthony Towns being traded?
11:22I see an impasse contractually, and I see an ownership that tends to make irrational
11:28decisions at times.
11:29Is this a pipe dream to think that he might be on the move?
11:33I don't think it's, I don't see him going anywhere.
11:35I think the Knicks and him work it out.
11:37I think they were close.
11:38I don't think that was like extremely far apart.
11:41Um, uh, you know, I do, uh, you know, anything can happen during this season though, right?
11:47They're the defending champs, but it was this sort of magical run that they were on.
11:52The East is a hell of a lot better.
11:53I mean, Philly looks pretty good right out of the gates here.
11:56You know, that's something to watch.
11:58Right.
11:59Um, so let's, let's see how this next season goes.
12:02Um, but I, I think Carl has a really big market.
12:05I think there's a lot of teams that want Carl Towns.
12:06And I think, yeah, if that's, I wouldn't call that a pipe dream.
12:10I just think you have a lot of competition and I don't see New York being in a place
12:14where they're even thinking that, you know, anytime soon, right?
12:18Like maybe if it's after the season or something and they really can't get it or, you know,
12:22the season goes off the rails, like things can happen.
12:24But I, I, I still think Carl stays in New York.
12:27I think that's, that's, that's family there.
12:30You have to understand how close Carl Towns and Leon Rose and, and Carl's agent, Jessica
12:36Holtz and all that.
12:36That's like, that's family for 20, 20 years.
12:40They're not going to, it's not going to come to an acrimonious end.
12:44Ramona, you sort of touched on this, but let's zero in on the Christophe Porzingis situation.
12:53What, like, are, are, are we, is he done here for sure?
12:57Is he done playing basketball?
13:00How do you see this resolving itself within the next handful of weeks or months?
13:05I don't know, Mark.
13:07I think this is a really, I, I'm, I'm bummed about this story, right?
13:10Like I, I've gotten to know Porzingis over the years.
13:13He's actually a very, very lovely human being.
13:15I, I feel sorry for him.
13:17This has happened to him in his, his life.
13:19You never want to see somebody's health have the, have this downturn like he's had.
13:22Um, and, and it's sort of unexplainable, but I also think that, you know, he, they, they've,
13:29they've put him through and they, they had him in, in their program for long enough to
13:32feel confident signing him to another contract.
13:35And so, um, clearly things have gotten a little, I'm trying to think of the right word.
13:42They've gotten a little uncomfortable, um, this week.
13:46I think that's, that was the gist of, of the reporting.
13:49Um, and, uh, this is where all your high EQ people, um, need to get involved here.
13:57And that I, I think the worries have a lot of those.
13:59I think Chris stops is a very, um, you know, he's a very emotionally intelligent person.
14:06Steph Curry, Steve Kerr, a lot of those up and down, up and down that roster.
14:10Um, and if it's just a matter of, can he get himself mentally and physically in a place
14:16where he feels, you know, he can, he can play again.
14:19I think this is a big thing.
14:20I mean, we, we've all covered this kind of stuff before.
14:23Like there's a, there's a, you know, I, I, I think the worst story, oh, this, this terrible
14:27Ben Simmons story.
14:28I feel so bad for him.
14:29Right.
14:30Yeah.
14:30Like that was just like, when I saw that news, I, you know, Mark Spears had that great
14:34East 60 on him.
14:36And I was so like, I was like, wow, he looked great.
14:38I saw him in the preseason.
14:40He looked like he was the old Ben Simmons, like he was playing again.
14:42And everybody thought, you know, Ben has the yips.
14:44I mean, yeah, he had the yips, but he also had a pretty severe back injury, you know?
14:49And so like, like, what is, where, where's the line there?
14:52You know, like I, I, I think Porzingis really has some kind of strange, whatever, whether
14:58it's POTS or some autoimmune thing.
15:03It's, it's a tough one.
15:04Right.
15:04And so I think he, he clearly has something that's, that's restricting his ability.
15:08And then where does that go with your mind and how you comfortable you feel out there?
15:12Do you trust your body?
15:13Like, there's just a lot that goes into this.
15:15And I, I hope for his sake and the warrior's sake, that this is not the end of it.
15:19I really do.
15:20That, that I feel I, if you, if you guys knew him, I think you'd like him, you know, like
15:26I think, I don't think you really had a chance to get to know him.
15:29He's a, he's a good guy, you know?
15:31And I think he's trying, so we'll see, we'll just see how it ends up.
15:35I, I don't, I don't have any predictions on that one.
15:37Cause I, you know, there's a lot to happen in between now and then.
15:42And I was going to ask you, like, we know about the, now he's not playing, but when
15:46is the, then is this one of those things where you wait all the way until the deadline or
15:50could something possibly shake off before that?
15:54I can see it happen.
15:55Anytime could happen soon.
15:57It could happen in a while.
15:58Like, you know, if there's a team that like has buyer's remorse on a contract, they've
16:02already signed, like that, that could be December, right?
16:05You know, you, you, if you just, if there's somebody who, you know, usually teams wait to
16:09see what they have before they make any kind of trades, I see their team that they, that
16:14they drafted and they feel that this summer is working out at all.
16:19Right.
16:19But there's, there's certain teams that you already kind of know, right.
16:23You already kind of have a sense on.
16:25So, you know, like if there is a deal to be made where he, you know, it's a very, the
16:31contract he signed was literally designed to be very tradable.
16:35Ramona Shelburne, ESPN is with us here on Willard and Dems 95.7, the game Ramona, are
16:41you aware from your position, how much of a lightning rod Brandon Pajemski can be in this
16:46market and, and how did the contract extension grab you?
16:51Um, I am very aware of what a lightning rod he can be.
16:54I'm very aware of that.
16:56Um, yeah, that's a, that's a, that's not just a San Francisco story or Bay Area story.
17:01That's a national story, right?
17:02We all, we all kind of know.
17:04Um, uh, but I, but I, I think it's sort of a, he plays, he's, they don't have a lot
17:12of,
17:12they like him enough.
17:13He provides a, you know, something they need.
17:16Um, but I also kind of, I, you know, I think they didn't have much of a choice there either.
17:22Right.
17:22They kind of had to do that to say, you know, they, they missed the window where the rest
17:26of the league valued him as highly as they did.
17:28Right.
17:28There was these conversations with Utah a couple of years ago.
17:31And, and I think, you know, he's got a feistiness and a competitiveness they need.
17:36He's got, you know, an ability.
17:38I mean, I don't, I don't love the back, the back stuff starting season with our young player
17:42that, that, that gave me a little pause.
17:45Um, but you know, it's, I, I think they kind of had to, right?
17:49Like you're, you, you, he, he's valuable and you can't just let him get into this restricted
17:54free agency and feel disrespected and that you didn't get a deal done and all that.
17:58Then, then you're back in the Kaminga situation.
18:00Whoa.
18:01Yeah.
18:02Oof is right.
18:03Although we did get 191 shows out of that.
18:05Don't say that.
18:07We used to joke.
18:08I don't ever want to talk about that again.
18:09I mean, I don't, I don't know how you guys feel, but do you never want to talk about
18:12that again?
18:13We used to joke Ramona that all roads led to Kaminga.
18:16We could be talking about, we could talk about the weather and somehow Kaminga would come
18:20up and then we do two and a half hours on Kaminga.
18:24Yeah.
18:25I saw a Slater walking around.
18:26I'm like, don't tell me anything about, don't, don't say it.
18:29Don't do it.
18:32It's funny you say that because Mark and I were watching the opener in the studio and
18:36we go to break and Mark said, Hey, he's got a bucket in the rebound.
18:40I said, Ooh, let JK cook.
18:41And at the end of the game, he had a rebound.
18:44So we can't get away from it.
18:46Yep.
18:47I mean, I, you know, I just never, that, that was just the longest, most drawn out thing
18:51ever.
18:51And, and it still got drawn out this summer too.
18:55It was, it was a, I'm talking about him on the Lakers, Minnesota.
18:59Minnesota, you know?
19:00Yeah.
19:02I mean, honestly, that one, it has not only been odd for a while, but as you just said,
19:09even into the summer where the way that got tweeted about Minnesota promising to start
19:14him and all that, it just, I don't know.
19:17It keeps getting weirder.
19:18How can you promise that in, in the off season of almost any free agent, unless it's a star?
19:27I mean, you can, people do it, you know, people definitely do it.
19:31Like, I think, you know, when it's, when it's close between, like, he had to take less money,
19:36you know, and, and, and then he would have in LA, but he's betting on himself.
19:40And so you're betting on yourself, you know, thinking that you have a bigger role, but they
19:44kind of have to make you certain promises.
19:46Um, so I, you know, I, I don't, I wasn't in on the reporting on that one.
19:51So I don't want to, I don't want to speculate, but my, my guess is really, um, my guess is
19:56really, I mean, like he's, he's been betting on himself for three years now.
20:02When, when do you cast the bet, by the way, I, I, I don't know what time limits on these
20:07things.
20:07Oh, you know, you know what though?
20:08You always have to, like, I respect it.
20:10I totally respect that he's super talented, but I also like, all I'm looking at is how
20:15much money that you've, that you cost yourself so far.
20:18Like how much have you lost?
20:20I mean, people, you know, like I, I've seen it happen with other players and, and, um,
20:26I, I get, I get bummed for them.
20:28Cause they, you know, players, they have a very short window, you know, they have a very
20:32short window in their career to really make money.
20:34And like, you know, that middle class is really endangered in the NBA.
20:38So it's kind of a tough, you know, it's a tough, tough spot.
20:42He's in, but you know, one of these times it'll, it'll work out.
20:44Right.
20:45I mean, he's going to get an opportunity and he'll show you the show out or he
20:47won't like, maybe it's like, yeah, sometimes shorter than they even realize, um, you
20:53know, listen to the way we're talking about Chris top.
20:56So, uh, Ramona, great stuff.
20:59As always, I'm sure we'll do it again soon.
21:01Enjoy the start of the season.
21:02Thanks guys.
21:03There goes Ramona Shelburne of ESPN.