- 9 minutes ago
Catch up with all the latest politics across the county with Meghan Shaw.
This week we were joined by two Canterbury City Councillors, leader Alan Baldock for Labour, and Dan Watkins from the Conservatives to discuss what the new Prime Minister, Andy Burnham, can do for Kent.
This week we were joined by two Canterbury City Councillors, leader Alan Baldock for Labour, and Dan Watkins from the Conservatives to discuss what the new Prime Minister, Andy Burnham, can do for Kent.
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TVTranscript
00:21Welcome to the Kent Politics Show here on Kame TV and I'm Megan Shaw. And things have
00:26changed here as we have a new Prime Minister. Andy Burnham became an MP barely six weeks ago and
00:32now he's leading the country without his own mandate and despite quite frankly not a single
00:37member of the public having asked him to be PM. Is this fair and what can the King of the
00:43North
00:43really do for Kent? But before we get into that, Olly Leader and myself were in Gravesend when the
00:48new leader of the Labour Party came down and refused to speak to local press. He's the new leader of
00:55the Labour Party, he's set to be Prime Minister on Monday and he's certainly not speaking to local
01:02media here in Gravesend. Andy Burnham greeted local MPs and councillors in his first big visit to Kent
01:10but while he was more than happy to take selfies, the former Manchester Mayor didn't put himself
01:18forward to us for interview on the big issues that matter here. Though he did give his backing
01:25for the return of the Tilbury Gravesend ferry when preaching to the converted, much to the
01:31excitement of the town's MP. Welcome Dandy in, gave him a nice big hug, lovely to see him,
01:39congratulated him and then I went straight to the juggler which was can we have the Gravesend
01:43Tilbury ferry back, can you help me with this campaign? And he understood it because it's about
01:48connectivity and it's about allowing people to get to jobs and it's also about protecting and helping our
01:53high streets and our businesses. Burnham has become Labour leader without any opposition.
01:59There have been concerns that the so-called King of the North is an unknown quantity here in the
02:07South East. As usual we've been left in the dark about what you know the next Prime Minister who let's
02:12not forget is unelected, has no mandate to govern, is being inserted into number 10. I'd love to know what
02:18he thought but unfortunately he's been avoiding all scrutiny, all interviews with proper journalists.
02:25Politicians in Kent have been giving him their backing, saying he could transform the county.
02:33He will be a Prime Minister for all parts of the country. Look he's been a fantastic member of the
02:39local and regional government family for the last 10 years and he's done an amazing job in Greater
02:43Manchester. He's one of the reasons why we're so desperate to see a mayoral combined authority for
02:49Kent and Medway and I hope with his leadership we'll see that come sooner rather than later.
02:54With Wes Streeting also dodging interviews with us when he was Health Secretary, Burnham isn't the
03:01first senior politician to avoid Kent's local media. He's hoping he's more forthcoming on future
03:08visits or when he sets out his stall on Monday. Olly Leader in Gravesend.
03:15And I'm now joined by two Canterbury City councillors, Labour leader of the council Alan
03:20Bordock and Councillor Dan Watkins representing the Conservatives. So Alan I'll come to you first,
03:28we were there both at Gravesend, we had a little chat. Do you not think it is a bit odd
03:32that Andy
03:33Burnham came to Kent, his first visit as Labour leader. He spoke to Kent representatives, Kent
03:39politicians, he mentioned the Tilbury Ferry and yet did not speak to Kent's local media who have a
03:44direct pipeline with, you know, people of Kent. I'm sure you're getting an opportunity. I mean,
03:50to be honest about it, I think it was a pretty whistle-stop service, probably only about an hour and
03:54a
03:54half. He'd only just been, if you like, endorsed by the Labour party just a few hours earlier. I'm
04:02pretty sure you're going to get your opportunities, but probably that was not the time and place to
04:07be barraged by loads of local journalists who want to know. We're here, I'm here, your local
04:14politicians are here, we're always happy to talk to media. Andy Burnham would take his time, I'm sure.
04:20Well, he took the time to talk to a TikToker on a stepladder, but didn't want to put himself up
04:25for scrutiny. Absolutely. That's fine. That's what, that, that's where you judge it. And that's not,
04:29I think, what it is. I mean, I think that he has to have scrutiny. He will be under scrutiny.
04:34He's
04:34on scrutiny every day. And you can see that in the last two or three days news. Um, of course
04:39he's
04:40on scrutiny. And I'm sure he would talk to local media and I'm sure he'd come talk to you.
04:44And Dan, I'll come to you. Andy Burnham,
04:47he's the king of the north. He's all about Manchesterism. He's also our prime minister,
04:51not just for the north, but for the south. Is there a worry people in the south, these people
04:55here in Kent might feel a bit left behind? I suppose when someone puts so much of one
05:01region into their brand, then, you know, if you're in the other region, uh, you know,
05:05we're in the south. Yeah. You do wonder if, uh, he's going to be listening so much to, to, to
05:11voices just from within his own part of the country, you know, his power base, if you like,
05:16um, the, that when the difficult decisions come and they surely will come for Andy Burnham,
05:21um, then at the margin, we might get overlooked, but yeah, it's early days. We've got, we've got,
05:26we've got to see, he does have to, he has to lead for the whole country. I would say about
05:29the
05:29thing about the media, not speaking to Kent journalists. I mean, I don't think we've been
05:33particularly slighted. He's been doing that all over the country. He hasn't really engaged with the
05:37media anyway. So, I mean, I've got an issue with that, but I don't think it necessarily means that
05:41he's specifically not going to talk to us. I'm sure as Alan says, he will come and engage with us
05:45heartily in due course. But in general, do you think that lack of putting himself up for scrutiny
05:50might, you know, affect people's faith perhaps in him as PM? I don't think he has put himself
05:57aside from scrutiny. You know, do, do we scrutinise all the parties? Do we, we all scrutinise every
06:03party, don't we? Reform party, the Conservatives, Lib Dems, Labour, Green, we all get scrutiny.
06:10You know, it's, it's whether you feel that you can't ask the question or whether if you're there,
06:16you can ask the question. You know, it's scrutiny is there. It's in the press, it's in the media,
06:22and people will come back on it. When Andy Burnham came to Gravesend, he didn't, I suppose,
06:28speak to his supporters, speak to fellow Labour councillors like yourself and then speak to the general
06:33public. It was, I'm going to speak to my mates and then I'm off in my car. Do you think
06:37that,
06:38do you think there's room for improvement there?
06:40It's the way you interpret it. You know, I've been to lots of events. I mean, I went to reception
06:44number 10. It wasn't that the local media were there. You know, it was, it was just, we had our
06:49mates there, you know, and that's often the case. So I don't think you should take it as a personal
06:55slight, to be quite honest. He'll be around. Andy comes to meet, and he will be in the south east,
07:00and we're only an hour from London, aren't we? You know, we're, we're in the hub of things
07:04in the south east as well. That's what I've been in north now, probably. Do you think even though,
07:10obviously, we're close proximity in London, but I wouldn't say a lot of the communities here kind
07:15of benefit from that perhaps wealth and power we have in Westminster. I think a lot of Kent residents,
07:19there's lots of deprivation in Kent. There's lots of people who feel disillusioned in our county.
07:24That proximity to London, I would say, wasn't necessarily mean that Kent residents feel like they're maybe on the map.
07:29I think that's the whole part of Andy Burnham's ethos, isn't it? It's this levelling up agenda,
07:33this way that every part of the country has wealth and growth and equality. We've got local
07:41government organisation, the starter, we are fighting hard to get a mayoral authority. You can see the
07:46benefit of the mayoral authorities up and down the country. That now is more likely, I think, than not.
07:52So, yeah. That's part of it. You'd support a mayor?
07:57Definitely. Absolutely, definitely. Sooner rather than later. And the local government organisation is a
08:03good trigger point to that. We always wanted that, and we always wanted a mayor. Now I'm hoping that we
08:08would get a commitment to a mayor very quickly.
08:10And Dan, is that something you'd support as well?
08:12Yeah, actually, I do agree with that. I think Kent needs to see more powers coming down from the centre,
08:17so that local people, local representatives are making the decisions, not central government.
08:22And we need a mayor as that figure point and bringing that together. And that's just the sort of
08:25accepted model, frankly, across the country as a whole. I think where I am very concerned is,
08:31when you look at why do we not have the extra powers and a mayor, that's because Angela Rayner,
08:35as minister at the start of last year, she stopped Kent from getting it. We're on course to get it.
08:41She did a U-turn for Kent and said, you're not having it for now. And my big concern is,
08:48who has Andy Burnham just appointed as our new Secretary of State for communities? It's Angela
08:52Rayner again. So there needs to be some very loud voices from within the Labour Party to say, look,
08:58look again at this and let's go back to where we were going before and quickly get the mayor and
09:03the
09:03new powers in rather than just being what some people call like a devolution desert in Kent,
09:08one of the only parts of the country which is not going to have a mayor next year.
09:12Yeah, we were very disappointed with that decision last year, it was no secret. But I feel we've
09:19stepped forward now. And we will be writing as all, actually all 14 leaders of councils in Kent,
09:28I hope we will be putting a letter to Andy Burnham in the next day or so, reminding of our
09:33commitment to devolution and our commitment to having a mayor, which is united, I think,
09:37across every single council in Kent, and saying, come on, step up. And we want that mayor now. So I'm
09:42hopeful that we will get that. We may not, of course, but yeah.
09:47Obviously, that's a big, I suppose, a linchpin of Andy Burnham's kind of promises he's made.
09:51And while the people of Makerfield might have voted for Mr Burnham to be their MP,
09:56no member of the public has asked for this man to be Prime Minister. Is that democratic, Alan?
10:02It's actually democratic, isn't it? When you think about it, we don't have a presidential
10:06system in this country. When you go to the polls, you vote for the manifesto.
10:12Some parties would prefer that you vote for the person, because they haven't got the manifesto to go
10:17with it. We went to the country with a manifesto of change and lots of things in that manifesto,
10:24and that's what you vote for. But some of the promises Andy Burnham's made,
10:27such as undoing Rachel Reeves' freezing of tax rates, such as bringing water and energy into public
10:34domain, they're not necessarily stammer's policies. No. Are they in the manifesto? I think you'll find
10:40that they are. So those are manifesto pledges to be made, and every party delivers as much of
10:49the manifesto as it possibly can. It doesn't deliver everything no party ever has in history,
10:54but we would deliver on the manifesto. That's what we're there to do. I mean, if a Prime Minister
11:00leaves office, which, let's face it, the Conservatives said a lot of Prime Ministers leave office,
11:05we didn't have any election every time then, did we?
11:07And Dan, I'll quickly bring you in. As Alan mentioned, we're on our seventh Prime Minister
11:11now since Brexit. Is this the future? Are we having a whistle-stop tour of all the PMs?
11:16I think as long as the fundamental problems of the country aren't addressed, this is the future. I
11:21would not be surprised if Andy Burnham doesn't even make it through to what was probably a 2029
11:27general election. If we get a leader, a party, which can really tackle those big issues like getting
11:35the economy to grow, getting public services to work better for people, national security,
11:39all of those things, then actually I think you would see things settle down a lot, because remember
11:43when the economy was growing, you know, Thatcher was in a long time, Blair was in a long time.
11:49Dan, I'm sorry to cut you off. That's all we've got time for in this part. We'll catch you after
11:53the break.
12:12you
15:52If you go into Strode and you come back for six pounds, you might as well get a train for
15:59that.
16:00I think because of the cost of living so much, I think it will help it.
16:05It will be easier for the people who are working, you know, and especially the young generation, because the young
16:12generation are our future, you know.
16:14Well, a pound per se is not going to have a massive impact in people's quality of life.
16:24But it is through policies like this that public services are perceived to be affordable by all.
16:32In Rochester, opinions on the new policies and the new PM were decidedly mixed.
16:37Well, in a way, I don't think it's right because basically,
16:41no, I haven't voted for him and I can't see anyone else or many of the public have voted for
16:45him at all.
16:46As far as I'm concerned, if the Prime Minister has been ousted, then there should be a re-election.
16:51I can't see how that man can be Prime Minister.
16:55Paul Dixon runs the Wolfencastle Micropub in Rochester.
16:58I think it's a definite step in the right direction.
17:00It's a lifeline for a struggling industry.
17:03It's really tough for the pub trade at the moment.
17:06Overheads have shot up through the roof.
17:08If, you know, costs are really difficult to manage, it's, yeah, it'll definitely be a help.
17:13I think it's very early days.
17:14I think it's difficult to call at the moment.
17:17But, yeah, I mean, certainly the early indicators are that, you know,
17:20that he cares about businesses that are finding it tough, people that are finding it tough,
17:24you know, cost of living prices.
17:26Like, yeah, it definitely looks as though he's, yeah, he's got that in mind.
17:29He's moving in the right direction.
17:31However, with his number 10 for the North Department plans,
17:34will the King of the North leave the South East undefended?
17:37Under Burnham, no Kent MPs hold a position in the Cabinet.
17:41And on his recent visit to Gravesend, his first since assuming the Labour leadership,
17:46Burnham refused to speak with the local press.
17:49The number 10 North plan will see a northern branch of Downing Street,
17:52reportedly already up and running, overseen by Louise Hay, First Secretary of State.
17:57According to Burnham, the time for resisting devolution is over.
18:00Tim Forster for KMTV.
18:04I'm still joined by two Canterbury City councillors, Labour councillor leader, Alan Bordock,
18:09and Councillor Dan Watkins from the Conservative group.
18:13Dan, I'll come to you first, because I'm sure it wasn't that long ago
18:17that we saw the bus fare rise from £2 to £3.
18:20Now we've heard by January, in the majority of England, that will go back down to £2.
18:25So, I mean, as PM, it should be continuing the work that Starmer started,
18:31not really undermining it.
18:32Is this, I suppose, confusing for a lot of residents?
18:36Yeah, I'm not going to criticise that policy,
18:39because it is a Conservative policy to set the bus fare cap at £2,
18:43and Starmer abolished it, so then we've just gone back to the Conservative position.
18:46But you don't want to be messing around with fares,
18:49micromanaging it from the centre all the time, because that is confusing.
18:52And also, we want investment to come into the bus industry,
18:55new routes to be open, better buses, new kit, well-trained drivers.
19:01It doesn't help the companies if they're seeing the signals,
19:04the prices moving around all the time.
19:06So they've got to be careful, and not just...
19:08We don't want too much tinkering, that's not going to help.
19:11But look, I mean, you know, cost of living, every little helps, doesn't it?
19:14I just think we would like to see a plan from Burnham on the big measures,
19:19not these small fry things.
19:20It's like Kemi Badnock said yesterday in her speech.
19:22We've got to tackle the really big issues about economic growth,
19:28reducing welfare spend so we can invest it in more productive uses.
19:31National security, where is he on those?
19:33That's where the scrutiny needs to be happening.
19:35You just touched on that.
19:36I was going to ask that to you, Alan.
19:38Some of these policies, like cutting the VAT from electricity bills,
19:41will just save the average household £45.
19:43Kind of on that note, are these kind of performative policies
19:47that we're seeing that maybe give people a bit of hope,
19:50but again, there are huge questions about the future of our country,
19:54and they do remain unanswered.
19:56Yeah.
19:57I think, you know, through my politics, if you like,
20:01it's all about offering hope and experience,
20:04and that feeling that you are able to live
20:08and be in charge of your own destiny.
20:10I mean, if you can't feel that,
20:12then it doesn't matter what the government does in the big picture,
20:16you won't buy into it,
20:17because many of those big decisions need big policy,
20:21and sometimes they're unpopular.
20:24But you need to have hope,
20:25and if you're...
20:26These small policies, these little drip feeds that are done,
20:29true, they're not much money in the big space,
20:32but £45 to £45,
20:33and having a saving, you know,
20:36probably £5 or £6 or maybe £10 a week on your bus fare,
20:39it's worth having, you know,
20:40if you're going in and out of work.
20:43It's worth having.
20:44They're little signs, if you like.
20:45They're not the big sign.
20:46That goes on in the background.
20:48So let's not get deflected.
20:49These are signs to give hope and experience and the thought.
20:52Yeah, OK, look, we do understand the issues of what you are.
20:54We'll be working on the others.
20:56We have to work.
20:57We can't ignore them.
20:58You know, ignoring them is just not an option anymore.
21:02So I'm expecting announcements on all of these bigger things,
21:06working through.
21:07Not two or three days into the Premiership,
21:09you know, in two or three months.
21:10And we've been promised a plan by the end of the year.
21:13Realistic.
21:14And I think between now and the end of the year,
21:16there'll be lots of other announcements coming through.
21:18We get the feeling maybe that Burnham might be hindered
21:21by the existing mandate that he needs to work on.
21:25Do you think the people need a general election?
21:28To be able to decide who they want to be PM?
21:30And also with Andy, to give him the breadth
21:33to be able to implement what he wants to do with the country?
21:36That's a political decision that he will make, no doubt,
21:39at the right time.
21:39I think I'm with, you know, it probably will be to the end of term.
21:42I think 28 or 29 before that election comes along.
21:46But every time you have an election,
21:48every time you go for a Prime Minister change,
21:50there's always a hiatus in decision-making.
21:53And what you last thing you want to do
21:54is keep flip-flopping between Prime Ministers,
21:56which is what the Conservative government did for years.
21:59And that's when progress starts to be hampered.
22:02There's plenty of stuff in the manifesto
22:03that meets Andy Burnham's aspirations
22:05and the overall aspirations of the Labour Party.
22:09I don't think that the manifesto hinders them one iota.
22:12It's the delivery of the big pictures,
22:14the one you talked about.
22:16They're the things that you need to work on.
22:18And all of that is in the manifesto.
22:19All of that is covered.
22:20And all of it is just pieces of work
22:23that needs to do it to repair this country
22:24after 14-plus years of decline, basically.
22:28Would you support one?
22:29Or, again, do you think it's a distraction?
22:32In what sense, Megan?
22:33Would you support a general election?
22:35No, I wouldn't,
22:36because it's just yet another big distraction.
22:38Even this leadership contest,
22:41as it potentially was going to be,
22:44is a distraction from delivery.
22:46I mean, there's no doubt about that.
22:48We don't need any more distractions.
22:50We need to get on with the job.
22:52And, Dan, I'll come back to you.
22:55Since Burnham's become PM and Labour leader,
22:57there's been what's called a burn and bounce in the polls,
22:59where even reform are kind of flagging.
23:02I suppose that pales in comparison to the Conservatives,
23:05who are still kind of struggling, perhaps,
23:07to rebrand themselves and rebuild themselves.
23:10Is Burnham a serious threat to Conservatives in the polls,
23:14in by-elections,
23:15and potentially in a general election in the future?
23:17So, I mean, a few things to say about that.
23:20I mean, we actually have been improving
23:22over the last six to nine months.
23:24And actually, because reform's got into trouble,
23:26actually before Andy Burnham even won the McEfield by-election,
23:31they're in trouble largely because
23:34Nigel Farage and some other members of his top team
23:37and his party have taken a lot of political donations,
23:40millions and millions of pounds,
23:41which people are uncomfortable about.
23:43And there's obviously investigations going on to that.
23:46So their slide for reform has predated Burnham.
23:50Burnham's got a few points up in the polls.
23:52If you look at it now, Megan,
23:53basically the three parties are within about
23:56two or three percent of each other
23:58in the polls that have come out this week.
23:59So it's very tight.
24:01Yes, we're on a rebuild.
24:02And I think Alan and I, with longer memories,
24:04would say neither of us are particularly delighted
24:06that our parties, you know,
24:08are doing like 22 percent in the polls.
24:10You know, we aspire to govern for the whole country
24:13and to be doing 35, 40, 45 percent
24:16and win a general election that way.
24:17But we are where we are.
24:19I would just make a point.
24:20It's very tight.
24:21Kemi's on the right track as our leader.
24:23We've got some big parts of our policy suite done.
24:26But we're only two years in.
24:28I think it will be two to three years
24:29for the next general.
24:30So, you know, we'll complete that job.
24:32I think for Labour, their challenge has been
24:34under Starmer, they came in with a very vague manifesto.
24:37Wasn't really a fully threshed out plan
24:39for what they were going to do for the country.
24:40And they hit the rocks accordingly.
24:43Andy Burnham's come in.
24:44What's his plan?
24:45Again, we don't know.
24:45He's been preparing or wanting to be prime minister
24:48for 20 years.
24:48He hasn't really laid out a plan.
24:50So this autumn is absolutely critical for him.
24:53I think if Labour don't have a plan
24:56and if, unfortunately, people are still not willing
24:58to give us a hearing because we're in power recently,
25:00the problem is people will just go
25:02to populist parties instead.
25:05They don't really have a plan.
25:06But because they haven't been in,
25:08people just vote for them as none of the above.
25:10And that's actually not healthy for democracy.
25:12We want parties with proper plans,
25:15you know, robustly scrutinised
25:17and to take them forward to the people
25:19and get them implemented.
25:21Well, that's the only way we're going to turn around
25:22the challenges the country's got.
25:24Obviously, it won't be long here in Kent
25:26until people are going to the polls
25:27to decide who they want to run their councils,
25:30their new councils.
25:32Do you think Burnham is kind of the sign
25:35that Labour needs?
25:36Obviously, the lasso collections weren't brilliant.
25:39Yeah.
25:40I mean, we'll have to see, won't we?
25:43A Burnham bounce two or three days in
25:45is not one to, you know,
25:47to sit back and relax over.
25:49But, yeah, I think we're now in an era,
25:52I think as Dan hinted at,
25:54when what you might call at least three-party politics,
25:57more sometimes five,
25:58and that's something that, you know,
26:00we've never had in this country in real terms.
26:03You know, it's always been like areas
26:05of either being Conservative, live them,
26:07vote for one of them,
26:09Labour, Conservative, vote for one of them,
26:10and so on.
26:12And it's all of those bits that go around.
26:14That's not the case anymore.
26:15You know, broadly speaking,
26:16most elections,
26:17we looked at the votes last time, didn't we?
26:19And people were winning by just a few votes
26:21because really the votes were split three ways.
26:26And it's,
26:27do people get the answer they want from that or not?
26:32And I think tactical voting will be another big issue
26:35because people have learnt the lesson last time,
26:38didn't get the vote they wanted.
26:39So they'd be more tactical.
26:41Thank you so much for joining me.
26:42I'm afraid that's all we've got time for on this episode.
26:44Stick around for Kent tonight
26:45and we'll see you next week.
26:47Good evening.
26:49Good evening.