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Why was Chad Tracy given the full-time gig? Was Chad Tracy's interim tag removal a strategic move? Why did Tolle/Gray get pulled early? The dugout drama unfolds: Cora's 'feel' vs. Breslow's 'data'. Thoughts?
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00:00Oh boy. So I was listening yesterday with bated breath to the post-mortem press conference at Fenway Park and
00:07boy did Sam Kennedy not need to be there.
00:10That was awkward. I love that. But he did have a very nice blazer on. I'll give him that.
00:17Breslau was asked by the assembled press about the analytical approach and the desire to remove the starter so early
00:24in both games.
00:25And Chad Tracy jumped on the grenade. And that is not my line. That was Rich Schurtenlieb.
00:31And it was a perfect way to describe it as I heard them discuss it on Rich, Ken and Ted
00:35yesterday afternoon.
00:37And what happened, I think we need to understand why Chad Tracy is here and what led to the decisions
00:45in the way in which they operate in the playoffs.
00:49Prior to Cora being fired, according to the reports, I have all the stories that were written from April.
00:55Cora operated with a more traditional dugout-centric mentality, on feel.
01:01While not entirely anti-analytics, he resisted what he perceived was a rigid front office, driven application of data over
01:08feel.
01:09He prioritized player evaluation based on feel, clubhouse chemistry, and managing game situations directly on the field as it pertains
01:17to the actual performance that day.
01:19Craig Breslau believed in a long-form approach using analytical-driven data that would suggest more optimal outcomes based on
01:28what he was saying, not what the specific moment felt like.
01:32Cora heavily relied on tactical matchups and game-day feel and trust in specific veteran relievers, according to the New
01:39York Times.
01:46He was fired because he was not enacting these ways in which Craig Breslau viewed the game.
01:53You can say who was right or wrong.
01:54This really isn't up for debate in terms of that.
01:57Yep.
01:58Chad Tracy was an interim manager until the end of the year.
02:02A week before the playoffs, out of the clear blue sky, he was given the full-time gig.
02:09That was done to buy his allegiance to this plan.
02:13If he was an interim manager, do you think he pulls Sonny Gray in game two with that 63 pitches?
02:18No.
02:19Or 70 pitches?
02:20No.
02:20And they did it so that when what happened occurred, that nobody could be screaming for Chad Tracy's head.
02:28Like, imagine if after mismanaging the pitching in the wild-card series, Chad Tracy was still the interim manager.
02:37Everybody would have been like, oh, thank God we, thank God nobody took that tag off the guy.
02:42Like, they paid Cora to legitimize the operation and we all bought in, myself included.
02:49They fired Cora because he didn't buy into the molecular approach of Craig Breslau.
02:54Also, Chad Tracy was given the extension and then he enacted the plans of the front office in the most
03:03catastrophic way possible and kept his job.
03:06If you are Wiggy, and you could be, and Wiggy I think speaks for maybe more than half of the
03:10audience when he says that it was Chad Tracy and he might be right.
03:13I disagree.
03:14Then he should be fired.
03:16Yeah.
03:16Like, if you think Chad Tracy did that on his own, that's a fireable offense.
03:19And he looked as secure as ever on the dais yesterday.
03:23Yeah.
03:24Yep.
03:24So, just to understand where you are, it's good to look at where you've been.
03:27And I believe that if you revisit the firing of Cora, understand why they gave Chad Tracy the full-time
03:34gig before the end of the season, then what happened in the playoffs will make more sense.
03:38Now, in the Twitch chat, a suggestion that the Breslau approach just comes from John Henry.
03:46I'm sick of John Henry talk.
03:47I don't know why people talk about him.
03:49I don't want to talk about John Henry.
03:54You could make the same argument for Tracy to Breslau as you could for Breslau to Henry, but we don't
03:59have to do that right now.
04:00Yeah.
04:01I mean, I don't understand how you can, whether it's Sonny Gray or whether it is Big Stash or whether
04:12it's going back to Eric Miller.
04:14Like, I don't know how you can justify those as being decisions that you made unless you had a plan
04:23that was analytically created by a bot somewhere going in to the wild card series.
04:32Otherwise, you wouldn't keep making those decisions.
04:36So, I'd ask you one simple question.
04:37If he was throwing a no-hitter, would they still take him out?
04:42Yes.
04:42In your world, they would.
04:44I don't know what, yeah, if the analytics.
04:45So, you can't have it both ways.
04:46Well, they did that multiple times this year, man.
04:48No, no, I'm saying, you can't have it both ways.
04:51So, if Stash or Sonny Gray were dealing a no-hitter or they were up in your world of the
04:58analytics because this was already predetermined, regardless of the score, where they were, they were coming out after 70 pitches
05:05in 83.
05:06But why do we have to use some fake events?
05:08We have it in consecutive days.
05:09Why do we have to create something?
05:11It's not a – I'm creating –
05:12You are creating something.
05:13No, I'm creating something that could have really happened.
05:15But we already have what happened.
05:16Why do you think Chad Tracy pulled Sonny Gray at 70 pitches?
05:21Like, why do you think he made that decision?
05:23I think he made the decision based purely on his – what Chad Tracy told us is that for some
05:30reason, he felt like the situation Sonny Gray was getting into in that moment was he wanted to put the
05:38– he felt like it was getting out of hand.
05:41Well, no, guys are going to be seeing him for the third time around.
05:45Right.
05:45Sonny Gray happens to be the very best in that situation in Major League Baseball.
05:50So, you have to explain to me why Chad Tracy – what was the logic that Chad Tracy used to
05:56pull Sonny Gray?
05:58We're asking you, please.
06:00I'm going – based on what – I'm going on what he told us.
06:03It was something about he felt like the way that Sonny Gray was going, he felt like if he didn't
06:08go to his bullpen, things were going to get out of here.
06:10And it's okay, so that doesn't make any sense, but let's go to the next point.
06:13No, no, no.
06:14Why did Eric Miller come in again?
06:15Just go to what he said, man.
06:17I know, but Wiggy – but Greg, ask you, Wiggy.
06:19I just told you.
06:20What part of –
06:21I don't hear – you just – I don't know what you just said.
06:23Listen, I just told you, dumbass, I agree with what Chad Tracy was saying.
06:28You asked me what was the reason why.
06:30I said because of what Chad Tracy said.
06:32You said, what's my opinion?
06:33I said, well, I'm going based on what he said.
06:36My opinion is what he said.
06:38Right.
06:38What did he say?
06:39Play what he said.
06:41So your opinion is that Chad Tracy made several mistakes –
06:45Yes.
06:45– managing this team.
06:46Yeah.
06:47And you don't think they may have made a mistake in removing the interim tag from him?
06:52No, I don't think they made a mistake for removing the interim tag from him.
06:55I think it was a bad decision for him to pull Big Stash and pull Sonny Gray.
07:00And even worse of a decision to put Eric Miller back in there.
07:03Like, I don't think that it was a mistake to remove the interim tag.
07:06I think he would have made this decision either way, and I think they would have hired him either way
07:09moving forward.
07:10But, Wiggy, before the playoffs, you said that –
07:13Go ahead.
07:13Go ahead.
07:14Before the playoffs, I said what?
07:16I love that I have the approval of you to speak.
07:18No, go ahead.
07:22Before the playoffs, you said that they shouldn't remove the interim tag because you haven't seen him manage in the
07:26playoffs, correct?
07:27No, that was a question that we talked about.
07:29Wait, Wiggy said that.
07:31No, no, Wiggy said that too.
07:32You each said that.
07:33That was a question that we talked about.
07:35Right.
07:35Did you agree or disagree with that?
07:37No, when they signed him, I said, okay.
07:39No, no, no.
07:39Before they signed him, did you think they should have?
07:42No.
07:42Before the playoffs, Rich Keefe and Jones talked about this.
07:46And we had this conversation.
07:48If you listen sometime, the conversation was started between Jones and Keefe, and I was listening to them talk about
07:55it.
07:55Then Greg and I talked about it.
07:57Well, should they have taken the interim tag off of him?
08:00Should they do it, you know, when he was on this hot streak?
08:03Before they – I believe it was before they –
08:05Wiggy, we talked about it several times over the course of the season, and you said they shouldn't.
08:09No, I'm talking about when this was being talked about.
08:14We talked about it several times, and you said they shouldn't remove the interim tag because I was saying they
08:19should.
08:19I did predict that this was going to happen.
08:22I knew it.
08:22Right.
08:23But wait, let's just go over the facts in case that happened, Greg.
08:25Listen, my thing is this.
08:27He said they shouldn't because you haven't seen him manage in the playoffs.
08:30He does this.
08:31He poops his pants, and he says it's his fault, and it's not his fault.
08:34Here's my thing.
08:35What a way to look at it.
08:36I get my opinion on what I think happened in the game.
08:40Yeah.
08:41Right?
08:41And then I go from there.
08:44Curtis's opinion is how can I blame Bresbot for something?
08:49How can I blame John Henry for something?
08:52I entered plaything, though.
08:53What are you saying?
08:53I said this is a great season.
08:55It all goes back to the analytics in this, which is a John Henry thing.
08:58Yeah.
08:58And so.
08:59But let me just pause.
09:02I said I didn't want to talk about it.
09:04You guys brought it to me.
09:05Let me just ask him.
09:06Do you think that he made the right decisions during the playoffs?
09:09And I said, I'm going to say this, slow without screaming.
09:13No, you don't.
09:14No, he shouldn't have pulled Sonny Gray.
09:16But you don't believe he should be fired for that?
09:18No.
09:18Okay.
09:19He shouldn't have pulled Sonny Gray.
09:20He shouldn't have pulled Big Stash.
09:23Okay.
09:23And I don't believe he should be fired.
09:25Okay.
09:25And I believe he made bad decisions, but I put it more on the fact that their bats did
09:32not come to the playoffs.
09:34Okay.
09:35That's why.
09:35Okay.
09:36So for everybody in the car, I don't want to get too loud.
09:38Right.
09:38Could I jump in with my lead?
09:40Because it is also part of the Red Sox and what they had to say yesterday.
09:43And I think it might help this situation because I also was on the side of remove the interim
09:49tag.
09:49I'm ready for that.
09:51I don't think Chad Tracy should be fired.
09:53I think that Chad Tracy was given orders going into the press conference yesterday and he followed
09:58said orders.
09:59I think the front office is hearing the noise when it comes to the analytics, the numbers,
10:04the fact that we call Breslow Bresbot and they're trying to mitigate the, um, the, the, the backlash
10:12that they're going, I'm sorry, the damage.
10:14Yes.
10:15The damage.
10:16Um, this is what they had to say about Wilson Contreras after all of this and reminder that
10:22Wilson Contreras had a lot to say when it came to analytics and how, um, this team is
10:28run.
10:28Yeah, I, I saw Wilson's comments.
10:31My interpretation is a little, a little bit different than there are clearly things that
10:34he wants fixed and changed.
10:35Um, you know, we actually had a great conversation, Trace and I with, with Wilson, uh, yesterday
10:40we met for, for over two hours, um, and we talked about a host of things.
10:44Many of those, I will keep private just to protect, um, or, or, or just to, you know,
10:48kind of preserve the relationship, uh, that, that we have.
10:51Um, but it was incredibly constructive, um, and, and covered a wide scope of things.
10:57And, uh, you know, like Wilson would be the right person to ask directly, but he spoke,
11:02uh, very, very highly of his time here, uh, how much he's looking forward to, to 2027,
11:07um, and the way that, that he and his family, uh, appreciated the Red Sox.
11:12Wilson Contreras did not seem like somebody that was very happy after the Sox got bounced
11:16in the wildcard series.
11:17And I think that the fact that they sat down with him means that they are taking it.
11:23I don't know if you want to say seriously, and Curtis might laugh at this, but they know
11:27that the players are pissed about the analytics running the show.
11:29And if they're going to sit down for over two hours with the guy who was the most outspoken
11:33about it after I'm on board with it again, I think that this is, I go back to, uh, Chad
11:39Tracy was taking orders when it came to pulling salt, sunny gray, when it came to, uh, pulling
11:44Peyton totally. And instead of using his baseball knowledge himself as a former player and going
11:51with that vibe, he depended on what Craig Breslow was telling him to do. That's where
11:55I fall on the argument. And I think the way that they've handled it, uh, post series, when
12:00it comes to Wilson Contreras only proves that further.
12:02Yeah. I just don't know why they won't own what their approach is. They've done it with
12:09driveline and they're doing it now when it comes to bad decisions that were made managing
12:15this team in the wildcard series. Like if you're going to be all in on analytics, that's
12:22what you're going to rely on. Not baseball instinct and experience, then just own it.
12:30They did own it. They Chad Tracy said in the press conference that he made decisions that
12:37he probably should have done things differently with, right? He, it was his decision to pull
12:41big stash and sunny gray. They own that. The problem is you don't believe what they're
12:46saying, right? He had a, so it's like a minion. No, no, no. So he said it. It's like, you
12:51going to see a movie. If you go see this movie and you don't like it, then that's the approach
12:58that you're going to take no matter what people might tell you like, Oh, I like that movie.
13:02No, no, no. I, I, if, if I believe Chad Tracy. Okay. So I would like to then ask the
13:08question,
13:09why is he still the manager of the Boston Red Sox? If his first go at it, he made mistakes
13:16that, that are not normally made by managers in major league baseball. Why is he still the
13:22manager of the baseball team? Because he got you to the post season on a team that people
13:27were talking about. This could be the worst baseball of worst Red Sox team when it comes
13:31to losses in their history. He was able to turn around a crappy team that was doing nothing,
13:38going nowhere and get you to the post season. That's why he didn't get fight.
13:42But when they clinched the playoffs, you said, don't give them the full-time job.
13:46No, I know when he got the full-time job, I was like, good, good move on their part.
13:51No, no, no. When he got to the playoffs, he had yet to be named the full-time manager.
13:55And when he did the 32 and five turnaround, when he had the greatest run in the history of the
14:00Red Sox, when they made the playoffs, we had this conversation and you said that wasn't enough
14:04to be given it. He was the manager of the full-time manager. They took that tag off of him
14:09before
14:09one pitch was even thrown in the post season. Exactly. And I said, I'm cool with it. I said,
14:16I'm fine with that. I'm saying we had this conversation before he was given the full-time
14:20job. Once they had been clinching the playoffs and you said, don't give it to him, we haven't
14:26seen the manager of the playoffs. I didn't say, don't give it to him. This is where you keep,
14:29I did not say that. I said, listen, and I'm going to go slow because I know Greg doesn't
14:35want me to yell. I said, before we- Well, no, you can yell. I just don't, I don't think
14:40you-
14:40I'm just passionate. I mean, that's the way I talk. Curtis yells, yeah, I don't think yelling
14:44and makes your point more meaningful. I don't, I don't do it to make it more meaningful. It's
14:49just the way I talk. So we, we talked about this well before. And this is like, I told
14:55you, this is something I heard on Jones and Keith and they were talking about it. And
14:58then we had the conversation in here and I'd say, you know what? Well, he hasn't really
15:02proved anything. What happens if he gets to the post season and he doesn't do a great
15:08job and you take, that's going to be the conversation. But once he signed and once they
15:13signed him to, and they, they said, okay, he is now the manager. I said, I got no issues
15:18with that. We had that conversation. He had done such a great job for this team. I understand
15:22the same way we had the conversation with Peyton Tolley not having the playoff experience.
15:27And I'm like, well, people are going to question, should you start them in game one? And I was
15:32cool with that. And the same way I was cool with Chad Tracy. I think it's one thing if it
15:37was just the Peyton Tolley and then they lose game two and Sonny Gray goes seven innings
15:42and it was just one starter where he was pulled too early. The fact that it was the exact same
15:47decision with the exact same reliever replacing the starter. If Wiggy and Wiggy is a thousand
15:52percent, right. The number one reason they lost is the bats didn't show up. And so if
15:57your bats aren't there, why are you pulling your best pitcher in a game where you know
16:00that runs are going to be at a premium with the same reliever who sucked for a month?
16:04And it wasn't the same, please don't yell.
16:05And it wasn't the same situation because they pulled Peyton big stash when there was
16:12after the inning, they pulled Sonny Gray and he had given up a couple of hits and it was
16:19first and third. And that's what, and that's what Chad Tracy told us. He told us that, Hey,
16:24the reason why I pulled them, I felt like it was getting away from him. And I went to Eric
16:29Miller. And yes, Eric Miller did give up one run.
16:31And who acquired Eric Miller at the deadline? Uh, that was Brisbane, right?
16:36This team over relied on analytics all season long and it didn't work for them in the end
16:45in the playoffs. And they are now blaming Chad Tracy for that. That is what is bothersome to me.
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