00:00Joining me now is Ambassador Meera Shankar. She is former Indian ambassador to the United States.
00:05Ambassador Shankar, Donald Trump has called Iran the world's biggest sponsor of terror.
00:12Then he has asked the UN whether he should make a deal or annihilate the Islamic Republic.
00:18That's a life threat from a sitting US president, not rhetoric. What happens next, ma'am?
00:26We really don't know what will happen next.
00:30Because President Trump, as always, keeps open the door to negotiations, but under coercive pressure.
00:39And this time he's ramped up the pressure by saying that the choice is either to have a deal or
00:46face annihilation.
00:49So that's a very strong threat.
00:52But then he himself says, I think that we have a deal after the elections.
00:58Which means that till the elections at least, there's no chance of a deal.
01:05The November midterm elections in the US.
01:09Ambassador, President Trump warns Iran economically isolated until it drops its nuclear programs and stops targeting shipping.
01:17India runs its own energy policy independent of Washington's line.
01:22What does that isolation push mean for India's calculations on the Strait of Hormuz and its energy security?
01:32Look, it puts India in a very difficult spot because so much of our oil imports have come from the
01:40Gulf.
01:41And that is disrupted because the Houthis have also now moved downwards adjacent to the Red Sea coast.
01:53So there's the possibility that the Babal Mandib Strait could also get choked.
02:00And that means that Saudi oil, which was using Red Sea ports, may not be able to get out.
02:08As it is, the price of oil is rising.
02:11So for India, I think we have to make our own choices in terms of diversification of energy sources.
02:23We are buying from Russia.
02:24We are buying from Venezuela.
02:26We bought from Nigeria.
02:29We buy from the US.
02:31So we are diversifying our sources of energy.
02:36But at the same time, I would say it's a wake-up call that we accelerate the push towards a
02:44non-fossil fuel economy.
02:46You know, if transportation, electrification can happen more quickly,
02:51if renewable energy based on solar and wind and battery storage can happen more quickly,
02:59then the amount of energy you need to import will come down and your energy security will increase manyfold.
03:09And while I do see some effort at diversification of energy sources of fossil fuel,
03:16I'm afraid I don't see any major push to accelerate a non-fossil fuel economy.
03:24You know, tell me, ma'am, as a former diplomat,
03:27that you would have heard, seen multiple US presidents and, you know, heads of state at the UNGA,
03:35how do you look at US president's speech today?
03:37Was it more meant for domestic audience?
03:42Well, he's this time kept more to his talking points.
03:46And the speech has been made with an eye to his domestic audience because he first talks about his own
03:55success in the US economy,
03:58in raising employment, in bringing down poverty, and the booming stock market.
04:06And never before has the US economy been so good.
04:13And then he talks about his success in securing the border and controlling immigration.
04:20He talks about artificial intelligence and super intelligence, as he calls it,
04:27because artificial sounds artificial, and that this means that the US will be ahead in future as well.
04:37And then he talks about Iran, and, you know, council, that Council of Peace on Gaza.
04:46And so much of his speech initially was really aimed at his domestic audience.
04:54On Iran, as we discussed earlier, he says the choice is either that Iran agrees to a deal
05:01and gives up its nuclear weapons, or he will annihilate Iran.
05:08And then on Ukraine, he says that a deal is nearer than anybody thinks, you know, that it could be
05:17around the corner,
05:18whereas actually conflict or exchanges in terms of drone attacks are intensifying between Russia and Ukraine at the moment.
05:35So, overall, this time he stuck to his talking points, more or less, with an eye on his domestic audience.
05:44Last year, if you recall, he had gone off his talking points, and he had talked about, it was a
05:53rambling speech.
05:54He had said that he has destroyed Iran's nuclear program.
05:59That was in his last year's speech, its nuclear weapons, and that he also had talked so much about Europe,
06:11how it was being overrun by illegal aliens, and that Europe would lose its own culture and soul, etc.
06:24So, he had just completely gone rambling of the points which had been given to him.
06:31This year, he stuck more closely to the text.
06:34All right, ma'am, let me ask my last question.
06:37India continues to engage Tehran and sit in bricks as any sovereign nation charting its own course would.
06:45Does Donald Trump's speech change the cost of that course?
06:50Well, I think India will make its own calculations where its balance of interest lies.
06:57Certainly, India has equities in the Gulf, with all the Gulf countries and with Iran,
07:04both in terms of energy, in terms of Iran's strategic location on the Straits of Hormuz.
07:14And it's being a vehicle for India to connect to Central Asia and also to have the North-South corridor
07:24with Russia.
07:24So, connectivity, energy, geopolitical location, all favor Iran, cultural links of the Shias in India and the Shias in Iran.
07:35And then in the other Gulf countries, too, India has energy interests, it has economic interests,
07:44it has defense ties with countries like UAE, and there's the huge diaspora in the rest of the Gulf,
07:51which sends remittances to India.
07:55So, India has interests in all the countries in the region.
07:59And, of course, Israel has been a strategic partner for India.
08:04So, we would need to carefully balance our interests there and also look at the stakes that we have in
08:16the relationship with the U.S.
08:18and then craft our course, keeping in mind that we take our own decisions based on our sense of our
08:27interests.
08:28All right, Ambassador Meera Shankar, pleasure speaking to you, ma'am.
08:31Thank you for joining us and sharing your thoughts.
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