2026.06.24 - Chi l'ha visto _ Puntata intera - 1a Parte - Video Dailymotion

Chi l'ha Vintage

Sono state ritrovate e stanno bene le due ragazzine che si erano allontanate da una comunità educativa. La Procura ha fermato la mamma, il suo compagno e il nonno per sequestro di persona. Una quarta indagata è la lontana parente che ospitava le due ragazze. E ora che succede? Si tornerà poi sulla morte della giudice Francesca Ercolini, trovata senza vita una mattina di quasi quattro anni fa nella sua casa. Da quel giorno la mamma, che non ha mai creduto al suicidio, lotta per sapere che cosa sia accaduto. "La sera eravamo insieme, stava bene, aveva mille impegni. Non punto il dito contro nessuno, ma devo sapere che cosa è successo quella notte e la mattina...", dice all'inviata di "Chi l'ha visto?". Infine, il caso di mamma e figlia morte avvelenate a Pietracatella. La Procura ha chiesto il supporto di un team tedesco esperto in bioterrorismo, che esaminerà tutti gli alimenti sequestrati e i prelievi fatti alle vittime, oltre che al padre e alla sorella quando furono visitati. Bisogna capire come e chi abbia portato la ricina in quella casa. Come sempre, spazio agli appelli, alle richieste di aiuto e alle segnalazioni dei telespettatori su persone in difficoltà.  #Chilhavisto #Chilhavintage

Transcript

00:00:00Thank you all

00:00:46Good evening everyone, and welcome to Who Has Seen It! We're starting this episode with great energy.

00:00:52So we immediately connect with Anna Maria for the first disappearance, the first emergency.

00:00:57Here we are, we're on a video call. Anna Maria, can you hear me?

00:01:02Yes, yes, I feel it.

00:01:04So you explained to our Valentina Giona that your brother Mario has moved away,

00:01:11We're in Portici on Sunday and you haven't heard from him, right?

00:01:16Can you explain a little bit what happened? Because I read that he went to smoke a cigarette and...

00:01:21he never returned to the bakery where he works.

00:01:26The gentleman where my brother works called me at 1.30 and said near me that

00:01:33my brother it was 5 and not a quarter

00:01:40who went outside to smoke a cigarette. Then he called them because they had to do the

00:01:50bread and my brother never came back.

00:01:57Anna Maria is doing very well, it's the way she loved, I tell our viewers, we had some

00:02:02problem

00:02:03because while we were starting the episode, the electricity in the building went out so we couldn't connect

00:02:08but you're calm, I don't know who this Vincenzo you're talking to is but stay still because otherwise we'll see you

00:02:14you get up and disappear from our viewers.

00:02:20So Anna Maria, in the meantime let's show Mario because we have some images that you gave us in which he is actually

00:02:27working with bread in short

00:02:30We have a little film that I ask the director to air and here it is, I think he's joking, right?

00:02:40Yes, he's a street kid, he's always joking.

00:02:45He's always joking. So, he's 53 years old, has gray hair, and has a peculiarity: he's missing some of his front teeth.

00:02:54and this makes him somewhat recognizable. So he has a somewhat eventful life, he's had a

00:03:02eviction problem

00:03:03So he's sleeping between loaves of bread, I'll make you laugh, Maria. It's a special moment for your brother.

00:03:14So Mario has been since Sunday, but he doesn't have a cell phone, he doesn't have anything with him?

00:03:18He has nothing, nothing, his cell phone broke 15-20 days ago.

00:03:23His cell phone broke, so he's unreachable. And he left the portico on foot anyway?

00:03:30Yes yes, on foot, on foot.

00:03:32That is, he didn't have a vehicle, a bicycle, something?

00:03:36So, it could be a moment of, as I always say, fragility, but I recommend

00:03:42Let's try to help Anna Maria and Mario, his name is Mario Duchi and maybe he hasn't gone that far from Portici

00:03:50and you viewers are always very generous with us and our families.

00:03:54So you want to make an appeal to him, Anna Maria, if you believe?

00:04:01Yes, so, I mean, Mario, what happened happened.

00:04:05Come back, so the problems can be addressed.

00:04:10That's all I want to say.

00:04:11All the brothers are setting everything up, but they don't even live here, they live out there.

00:04:17and it's just me here.

00:04:20We are doing everything we can do.

00:04:23Go home, everything will pass, don't worry.

00:04:27That's right, and these are the appeals we always make, right?

00:04:30Let everything be right.

00:04:32So, Anna Maria, we'll talk to each other during the episode, we hope to get some tips.

00:04:37But very well.

00:04:39So, I repeat, there has been no news from Portici and from Domenica.

00:04:45I wanted to tell you that during the episode we will have a special connection, really.

00:04:50There is our Francesco Palo del Re, who is with the lawyer Luca Maria Trapani and Rainer Akenberg.

00:04:58We've been talking a lot about ricin for Pietra Catella in recent weeks.

00:05:03Here they are, they're in a lab.

00:05:04Why what happened?

00:05:06That Rainer, who will tell us his story with his lawyer,

00:05:10in short, it represents perhaps the only judicial case of someone going to prison

00:05:14because he tried to use ricin to kill someone else which luckily didn't work out

00:05:22end.

00:05:23Rainer says I'm a different and better man, if we can reframe that.

00:05:28We thank you for being with us, because all our viewers then ask themselves

00:05:33what is ricin, how is it made etc., but the message that Rainer wants to give

00:05:39he was also careful because then he goes to prison as is right.

00:05:44Then we will be in that laboratory that was inspected, seized

00:05:50from which we will connect with our Francesco Palo del Re.

00:05:53But first me, obviously you are all reasoning as a family,

00:05:59what happens in our families, our parents.

00:06:04Stefano, one case, is lawyer Riccardi, Alessia Natale di Tomello, then good evening.

00:06:09It's a case that is making everyone think because in any case it's a defeat in some way.

00:06:16because sometimes it is said that parents are not educated, they are not helped

00:06:22because being a parent is also difficult for them.

00:06:25But the sisters have been found, the story doesn't end there, even their mother has been arrested.

00:06:33Were you able to see them afterwards or not?

00:06:37No, I saw them from afar because when they were released they were coming out of that apartment.

00:06:42they were covered by the police.

00:06:44And sure, and they went.

00:06:45So, I would like to help our viewers understand, how did we get to this point?

00:06:50That is, you are all married, you are in love, you have two beautiful daughters.

00:06:53How do we get to this point?

00:06:55A complicated situation too, right?

00:06:58Because then parental responsibility is taken away, it is given back.

00:07:02How can you explain to us how we got to this point?

00:07:05And this is a point we shouldn't have reached.

00:07:07Because the most important thing in a family is the parents and the children.

00:07:12So children, if two parents separate or divorce, must still remain the center of attention

00:07:19because they are the fundamental part of the family, the most important part.

00:07:26I mean, you saw your daughters for the first few years, right?

00:07:29There was the separation, as always in the sentence it is written how many days you can see them,

00:07:34when you can see them.

00:07:35Then usually one also comes to an agreement, right?

00:07:38Exactly, yes, of course.

00:07:39Well, that's fine, clearly we also make arrangements according to what needs to be done.

00:07:43You see them up to a certain point.

00:07:45Then at a certain point it's as if this, let's say, this path of yours with your daughters,

00:07:52that you were living in another house anyway, is interrupted because your wife doesn't help you,

00:07:58In fact, he tries to push them away, did we understand correctly?

00:08:00Yes, exactly. Basically, from the separation in 2016 until January 5, 2020, I saw them regularly.

00:08:07As per the decree, every 15 days on the weekend, they slept with me and were calm.

00:08:13Then, on January 5th, there were the first excuses that there was Covid,

00:08:21then the next time there was a birthday party of a friend of my eldest daughter

00:08:27and then from there our whole relationship slowly began to decline.

00:08:33That is, in some way not only did he not help you, he made it so that you could not see the

00:08:37your daughters,

00:08:38we understood this.

00:08:40Lawyer?

00:08:41Yes.

00:08:41And then what happens? Because then it also has to be demonstrated, accusations are made by one or the other.

00:08:51'other,

00:08:51in short, justice enters somehow in quotation marks and I'm telling you this because the viewer in some way

00:08:58way is troubled,

00:08:59because he says okay but a mother who defends her daughters in some way, who wants to be with them,

00:09:05she's a good mother, she's not a bad mother, now she finds herself in prison, but what's the matter?

00:09:10instead he didn't go?

00:09:12So I want to underline one thing, that in all these years of hearings there has never been a fight,

00:09:20a dispute over placement, that is, the minors were placed with their mother, the placement is the place where they have to live

00:09:26predominantly

00:09:27and then they also go to their father, the father has the right, the right to see them.

00:09:32No, here there was a trial in which two minors reached the point where they had to decide to choose

00:09:40between mom and dad,

00:09:41that is, giving up my dad, so it's no longer up to me to decide where I want to live and where I want to see him

00:09:48dad at his house,

00:09:49we have entered into a different perspective, that is, it has developed in minors, the sentence says it clearly,

00:09:57Manipulative and obstructive behaviors by the mother were ascertained after years of investigations and investigations

00:10:08and then they began to reject the other parent. I say that no child should be an orphan of a parent.

00:10:15live,

00:10:16should never choose between mom and dad, this is a source of harm, so much so, especially towards

00:10:235-6 years old

00:10:24the child needs to detach himself from the mother, from where he was born, to then embrace life, to then have confidence,

00:10:33first in the father who represents this detachment from the mother and then in life.

00:10:37I say this because it seems that when the two little girls were found they weren't jumping for joy.

00:10:44Why didn't they trust the adult? Why? Because they weren't given the opportunity to trust the adult before.

00:10:50Pope,

00:10:50to have a relationship with the father. Doctor, I also want to say this, this evening we are doing a service

00:10:58state public,

00:10:59This is the most serious and important program for me, especially in these cases.

00:11:04Here we have reached the point of going against the State, I don't want to create controversy, because I have always said

00:11:10to him too

00:11:10We must always respect the mother of your daughters, because she is the mother of your daughters.

00:11:14But what have we taught two little girls? If there is a sentence we don't like, we go against it.

00:11:20judgment,

00:11:21are we going against the state?

00:11:23No, but it's clear, there are rules that must be respected, right?

00:11:27Otherwise it's the Wild West, but the problem is that we're talking about little girls, minors,

00:11:31who can hardly understand what's going on, right?

00:11:36Who, if anything, were taken away from their father.

00:11:39I have to thank Alessia Natale, because last time she told us just this week

00:11:44a very important thing, that one of the two sisters is celiac, right?

00:11:48And among other things Alessia Natale, what we discovered, the prosecutor said

00:11:52that it is precisely for this important detail that they discovered where they were, also for this reason,

00:12:00because an expense had been made, a huge expense.

00:12:04Then Alessia went to her mother's house, but this huge expense wasn't there,

00:12:08so it had to be somewhere else.

00:12:11For us who deal with missing persons and for Penelope, obviously these are difficult situations,

00:12:17because we heard the mother's appeal, we were all worried,

00:12:20and even raising alarm isn't good, right?

00:12:23Because otherwise, Alessia, no one will believe in the missing anymore.

00:12:27Well, then, obviously we are an association that welcomes requests for help.

00:12:34of a family member or relative of a missing person.

00:12:37We have a real task, we have a burden more than a task,

00:12:42we have a really heavy load on our shoulders, because we are the association of pain,

00:12:48because obviously we enter and try to tiptoe into people's lives,

00:12:52because it is the most fragile moment for them, because they are missing a relative.

00:12:58In this case even more so because the missing people were not adults, but two little girls.

00:13:04But you immediately thought that your mother was behind it, right?

00:13:07But then yes, I...

00:13:08Reading the sentence, Youssef told us something important, among other things,

00:13:13this boy in love with your eldest daughter, who is a nice boy by the way,

00:13:18in a way, she said here her mother never came to look for her,

00:13:21and that means a lot, because if he doesn't come here, where have they disappeared to, right?

00:13:25Why doesn't he come, because maybe he knows where they are.

00:13:27But for us it was clear, for us everything was clear, obviously our thoughts remained thoughts,

00:13:32because the police were doing an investigation and were doing it well.

00:13:38But do you know what the problem is, Federica?

00:13:42That when a person disappears, especially minors,

00:13:45there is always the question of the danger that is outside,

00:13:49that minors may encounter outside.

00:13:52In reality, this makes us reflect that the danger is not always only outside.

00:13:57Of course not.

00:13:58Well, because in this case it was within the family.

00:14:00Well, I have to say that the prosecutor was very harsh,

00:14:04and also, let's say, he didn't have harsh words for either parent,

00:14:08he says there isn't just one.

00:14:09But it talks about this love that isn't right.

00:14:13But it's not love.

00:14:14Which is not love, which is possession.

00:14:16We always talk about it to those who have seen it when we talk to you about feminicides,

00:14:19that is, men believe they own their wives.

00:14:22No, this is not love.

00:14:24And the children too, the children must fly,

00:14:27there must be parental responsibility and there must be no possession.

00:14:32So let's move on to these days, this joy of rediscovery.

00:14:36We were there too with Paolo Fattori, Valentina Pellegrino and our Marco Monti.

00:15:01Mr. Prosecutor, excuse me, who saw it?

00:15:04Can you just tell us how the girls are doing?

00:15:06The girls are fine.

00:15:07In this situation we can just be happy that they were found.

00:15:12I'm in perfect health, but the problems are starting now.

00:15:19And we got the only result we were looking for.

00:15:22The girls are healthy and fit.

00:15:24Congratulations on this.

00:15:26Found approximately 110 kilometers from the family home from which they disappeared.

00:15:33A parent, Father Stefano, who cannot contain his joy.

00:15:3715 days of distraction, until last Sunday,

00:15:40when the carabinieri entered this apartment in Formia.

00:15:49But the other parent, the mother, is under investigation.

00:15:54This is a story that has nothing to do with crime,

00:16:01but it has only and exclusively as a point of reference a sick parental love.

00:16:08When I talk about sick parenting, I am referring to the fact that those little girls have two parents,

00:16:16not just one parent, the mother painted the paintable like the world.

00:16:22They are two parents who have renounced the first duty of each of us who have the fortune and the burden

00:16:33of becoming a parent.

00:16:34To be bearers of selfless love.

00:16:40To be, to put the interests of minors first.

00:16:45These girls, since they were 6 and 3 years old, have never had anyone to take care of them.

00:16:55But what happened? How did they get here?

00:16:59Let's take a step back.

00:17:02The girls are guests at the family home in Civitella Alfedena, a small village above Lake Barrea.

00:17:09On the night between the 6th and 7th of June, the girls, after two o'clock, come out of a window

00:17:16and they disappear.

00:17:17For days, there has been talk of how it was possible to leave a facility that houses only minors.

00:17:23The facility is a family home and is an educational center and not a prison, as the manager tells us.

00:17:31There are security systems, but there is no video surveillance system.

00:17:36But where did the girls go?

00:17:39Civitella Alfedena is surrounded by woods, while the town itself is monitored by cameras.

00:17:45How did the young women manage to get away without being caught?

00:17:51For days he imagined the most bizarre routes through the mountains.

00:17:56Instead they simply took the easy way out.

00:17:59But someone must have helped them.

00:18:01An adult certainly, but who?

00:18:03As far as I know, it is not a frequent case that children see their parents lose parental authority.

00:18:16parental,

00:18:17not as a consequence of abuse, not as a consequence of constant practice as a preventive measure,

00:18:23but of a practice of separation, a cause of separation.

00:18:29This should make us reflect.

00:18:32The Carabinieri's sniffer dogs sniffed out the girls' route.

00:18:37According to the reconstruction by the Sulmona prosecutor's office, they would have traveled along the road that leads to the center of the town.

00:18:44They more or less reach this height.

00:18:46Someone is waiting for you here.

00:18:48According to investigators, they are the mother's partner and the maternal grandfather.

00:18:53They were brought home, where we found them, early in the morning.

00:19:00In that house where the mother had previously gone together with two other relatives to announce and

00:19:10impose the presence of these children,

00:19:13carrying among other things some material for feeding a celiac,

00:19:18material that we were not aware of had been taken en masse through the use of a specific card one day

00:19:30before disappearing.

00:19:35The girls are taken directly to the house in Formia, where a distant relative of their mother Valentina lives.

00:19:42The lady asks few questions and takes care of the young women.

00:19:46While all of Italy is looking for them, they have always remained here.

00:19:50These girls were placed in this house and segregated inside the house,

00:19:56because they couldn't leave the room, they couldn't open the shutters.

00:20:02The only thing they could do was watch television and see what you wrote or said.

00:20:14Father Stefano, who lives in Minturno, exposes himself a lot, asks for help.

00:20:19His appeals are increasingly heartfelt.

00:20:22I always hope that they are well and not in danger.

00:20:27It's not possible that things went like this, also because it's not like them.

00:20:31On the contrary, his mother Valentina, also from Minturno, is never seen

00:20:36and only issues press releases through his lawyers.

00:20:40Among these, there is also an audio appeal, which, in light of what happened, is shocking.

00:20:45Since I haven't heard from you, every day that passes is full of worries,

00:20:52but also of hope, the hope of being able to hug you again soon.

00:20:59Whatever the reason that led you to walk away,

00:21:04I ask you to contact us.

00:21:07Mom is not angry.

00:21:10Remember that everything will work out, but we have to do it together.

00:21:15Mom go, wait.

00:21:17Make sure you're okay.

00:21:19I beg you.

00:21:20We heard the lady's tears,

00:21:26not only in overdubbing,

00:21:28or the desperate declaration.

00:21:31While simultaneously speaking.

00:21:34As for yesterday, without interruption,

00:21:38he made a video call with his daughters on a phone that we found in the house

00:21:44and later made a desperate statement that she fears she will never find them again.

00:21:51We have tried to contact the mother and her partner several times, without success.

00:21:56Who is?

00:21:56Mrs. Valentina, good evening.

00:21:58Sorry to bother you, but who saw it?

00:22:01No, look, I don't release statements.

00:22:03Sorry, my partner doesn't give interviews.

00:22:07I am sorry.

00:22:07Oh, and you're Mr. Vincenzo, right?

00:22:10I'm doing the ford, we don't leave the statements.

00:22:12Don't leave any statements, but don't even leave a plea to the mother for the girls.

00:22:16Sorry next one in the middle.

00:22:19Yussef, the eldest daughter's boyfriend, remained in Civitella Alfedena.

00:22:24After their disappearance, he too tried to help find a solution and help them find each other.

00:22:30He knew his father and had seen his mother a few times,

00:22:34who has never been seen in those parts again after her daughters disappeared.

00:22:39I want to see my mom.

00:22:40Ah, she's never come here?

00:22:42Never.

00:22:43I asked the policeman to bring her here, or I'll go and talk to her.

00:22:48But she doesn't want to do it.

00:22:50It's just started, never seen.

00:22:52Yussef was in that facility until he came of age,

00:22:55and he explains to us that the doors are alarmed.

00:22:58For this reason, the only way out was through the window.

00:23:02And to exit the door, is there a panic door?

00:23:05You can't get out of that door because as soon as you touch the door a voice sounds.

00:23:09A boy in love, a worker, for whom the chief prosecutor wants to spend these words.

00:23:15The only fault Yussef has is that he fell in love with the eldest of those girls.

00:23:21He has been portrayed as a monster and by some he has been considered as the decisive element

00:23:27to find these people, while his was a completely different contribution,

00:23:35but we can say that it was definitely not useful to us at all,

00:23:39but we weren't looking for that.

00:23:41Yussef was always certain about one thing.

00:23:43The girls were afraid of animals and would never go into the woods.

00:24:03Investigators discover a cell phone with a SIM card under their control

00:24:08receives a video call.

00:24:10When we became aware that a certain person, especially the mother,

00:24:17he had made a video call to a telephone number

00:24:25which we had already looked into, registered to a Pakistani

00:24:30and part of a group of cards that had been clandestinely and arbitrarily

00:24:37activated a couple of days before the disappearance in my homeland, Naples,

00:24:47which is never lacking in certain things.

00:24:50That phone hooks up to a Formia cell.

00:24:53The Carabinieri managed to narrow down the area to the Rio Fresco neighborhood.

00:24:57and to the distant relative's apartment.

00:25:00When we found the right door, honestly we were ready

00:25:07to find ourselves facing even dangerous criminals

00:25:12or crazy people who blew the door open.

00:25:16We met an 80-year-old lady.

00:25:19The girls are taken to a safe place.

00:25:22The story ends here.

00:25:23Luckily it ended well.

00:25:26But it really ended well.

00:25:31So, look, our Nicola Giannotti,

00:25:34who recorded the entire press conference of the prosecutor,

00:25:38he gave us this important document,

00:25:40because it's long, of course we had to cut it,

00:25:43if anything, we'll put it on our website in full.

00:25:46The prosecutor says of Sulmona,

00:25:48sick parental love, but then we'll see that it spreads, right?

00:25:53That is, there are not only the parents here, there is also something else.

00:25:56But the lawyer, as we were talking about the other time,

00:25:59we have passed from parental authority,

00:26:01to parental authority, to parental responsibility,

00:26:04because in the meantime we've realized, right?

00:26:06Yes, we realized something very important,

00:26:10that is, that children are not our property,

00:26:13children belong to life and are a responsibility,

00:26:17source of possible damage as well.

00:26:21So much so that the conduct considered prejudicial

00:26:24they then brought the Cassino court

00:26:26to order the woman to pay damages to her daughters and father.

00:26:30So I think that love should be an adult love,

00:26:34a mature love, a sick parental love,

00:26:37it's not love, it's not love.

00:26:38Sure, and it's also important how over time, right?

00:26:44Of course, it's a cultural issue.

00:26:47It's a cultural issue, we come from the patriarchy

00:26:49and then the terms must change.

00:26:51So what's happening?

00:26:52What a sick, sick parental love, but there's more to it,

00:26:56in the sense that it's as if there were a clan, let's say,

00:26:59that is, an entire family that decides not to respect the rules

00:27:03because the mother was arrested, the grandfather was arrested,

00:27:06the mother's partner, then maybe we don't know,

00:27:08there will be other suspects.

00:27:10What struck you all, I think, is this lady, right?

00:27:14Because he looks like the jailer of the anonymous kidnapping company

00:27:17who said no at first, but I didn't know anything,

00:27:19they were here, they brought these girls to me.

00:27:22And one of the first interviews that Marco Monti did,

00:27:26actually though when Marco Monti says

00:27:28but do you know who we are, are we the ones who saw it?

00:27:31She says of course, dad came to you.

00:27:35So this made it clear right away

00:27:37who was actually seeing everything that was happening.

00:27:41And the prosecutor says

00:27:44we thought there were, I don't know, criminals,

00:27:47so we went in force,

00:27:48instead we found this 80 year old lady

00:27:50which they did not arrest, obviously,

00:27:53which however is under investigation.

00:27:55So, let's hear it.

00:28:00Anyone who has seen it knows it?

00:28:02I know.

00:28:04The father was there for those who saw him.

00:28:06Yeah, yeah, it was a new one, yeah.

00:28:08Alright?

00:28:09What can you tell us about these girls?

00:28:11Who brought them here?

00:28:13For this state I'm seeing...

00:28:15The grandfather.

00:28:17The grandfather.

00:28:18And he didn't tell her anything,

00:28:19he didn't know that these little girls

00:28:21were they removed from the facility?

00:28:23No.

00:28:25Just to keep the girls

00:28:27just for a little while.

00:28:29Ended there.

00:28:30And then she didn't hear it on TV

00:28:32that there was all this movement around.

00:28:34And what did he think?

00:28:35Nothing, because they were fine here.

00:28:37And they never came out,

00:28:39they have always been with her.

00:28:40But from day one,

00:28:41how long?

00:28:43For 15 days.

00:28:44For 15 days?

00:28:46Since they ran away.

00:28:47And the girls didn't tell her anything.

00:28:49about this thing,

00:28:51so grandfather took on this responsibility.

00:28:53He even took school.

00:28:55But it was...

00:28:56But it was...

00:28:57I took it too

00:28:57to give it to mom,

00:29:00sincerely.

00:29:00And mom didn't know anything?

00:29:02Ah, I don't know,

00:29:03because nobody came here.

00:29:05They brought me the girls

00:29:06and that's it, it ended here.

00:29:07So the world is not what told her

00:29:09Mom wanted to take them from the facility,

00:29:12I went to get them

00:29:13and then I brought them here

00:29:15to leave them here,

00:29:17far from that structure

00:29:18and for having approached the mother?

00:29:20I think so.

00:29:21I think, I don't know.

00:29:23Because I didn't speak

00:29:24nor with the girls,

00:29:25nor with mom,

00:29:26nor with grandfather,

00:29:27I haven't spoken to anyone.

00:29:29I didn't see anyone.

00:29:30I understand.

00:29:31The girls were with me

00:29:32as if they were my children, let's say.

00:29:35They were fine.

00:29:38And it is not...

00:29:39No, no, they would miss me.

00:29:41He looks at them in the barracks.

00:29:41I, madam, don't know,

00:29:42the investigators know this well.

00:29:44But she,

00:29:45what I want to say

00:29:46is that anyway

00:29:46They've been missing for 15 days,

00:29:48there was a lot of appreciation.

00:29:50Well, I know.

00:29:51And she with her mother

00:29:51she has never heard from me in these 15 days,

00:29:53he has never heard of it.

00:29:54He has a lawyer,

00:29:55he didn't hear anyone.

00:29:56Grandpa continued to hear it afterwards.

00:29:59He didn't hear anymore,

00:30:00that is, since the girls brought them

00:30:02it ended there.

00:30:03He never heard from anyone again.

00:30:04And then, yesterday, what happened?

00:30:07A massacre happened yesterday.

00:30:10Have the police arrived?

00:30:11As if I were a terrorist.

00:30:15And did the police arrive?

00:30:16What time did they arrive?

00:30:1730 or 40 people.

00:30:19Well, there wasn't much concern, ma'am, was there?

00:30:22Oh, I don't know.

00:30:24I was fine,

00:30:25because I knew they were safe.

00:30:27I mean, I didn't expect much more.

00:30:30Okay, do you want to take it?

00:30:31Take it.

00:30:32But no, 30 policemen,

00:30:33but no, 30 carabinieri.

00:30:59And she with her mother,

00:31:00what relative does he have?

00:31:04I am related to my husband, not to me.

00:31:05Ah, Mrs. Valentina is related to your husband.

00:31:10That says it all.

00:31:12That says it all.

00:31:13Madam, but now what do you think...

00:31:16Nothing.

00:31:17That she found herself in this situation without knowing anything.

00:31:21Without my mother.

00:31:21Without thinking about anything.

00:31:25So, what we understand, Stefano,

00:31:26that's the whole part of the family, right?

00:31:29Of your ex-wife,

00:31:30they are all convinced that they are fine with them,

00:31:33with any of them,

00:31:33even with this lady,

00:31:35the great-aunt, right?

00:31:37And that they don't go well with you,

00:31:39who don't want to be with you.

00:31:40So they defend themselves by saying this.

00:31:42But the girls want to be with their mother,

00:31:44with grandfather,

00:31:45and not with dad.

00:31:47Yes, that's what they say.

00:31:49This evening I wanted to take advantage of it

00:31:52because it was important news

00:31:54that I didn't want to say before

00:31:56as my daughters were not safe.

00:31:59Me on May 22nd,

00:32:02Alicia, my eldest daughter,

00:32:04he asked to see me

00:32:06with social services.

00:32:08A meeting was held between me and her

00:32:12in Cassino, the Villa Comunale,

00:32:13in the presence of the curator,

00:32:15of the social worker,

00:32:16of the person in charge of the family home

00:32:18and there was also her boyfriend Josef.

00:32:22We spent two and a half hours together

00:32:26as if nothing had happened.

00:32:28So I saw my daughter again

00:32:31after exactly six and a half years.

00:32:34It was a beautiful day.

00:32:37He asked me some questions,

00:32:39he wanted to know what had happened

00:32:41between me and mom,

00:32:42but more than anything because he wanted to give confirmation

00:32:44because she already knew anyway

00:32:47of what had happened.

00:32:49He just wanted to confirm with me.

00:32:52And that day was...

00:32:54It's a recovered relationship.

00:32:55It's not true what you say

00:32:56who don't want to be with me,

00:32:58that put them in conditions.

00:33:00No, somehow it was...

00:33:02Well, it's clear that it's easy then

00:33:06to separate from one of the two parents.

00:33:08But I, Stefano,

00:33:10I think there are many parents

00:33:11who are listening to us,

00:33:12maybe even the children,

00:33:13but I want to tell everyone.

00:33:15This case must teach us something,

00:33:17It should make us think.

00:33:19Let's not push our children aside

00:33:21or on the other,

00:33:22because we are responsible precisely

00:33:25of the children.

00:33:26Look, then take it out on the children,

00:33:29look what happened.

00:33:30This, Alessia, is a case

00:33:31that's incredible, isn't it?

00:33:33Yes, this is a borderline case, really,

00:33:35because then, as we had always thought,

00:33:39It's normal that there was planning,

00:33:41but also in the choice of this lady,

00:33:44which is visibly in difficulty, however,

00:33:46because he wants to say, but he can't say,

00:33:48he is afraid to say.

00:33:50That is, unfortunately she is also the weak link.

00:33:54of this chain

00:33:55and it was chosen for this reason too.

00:33:57Oh, sure.

00:33:59Lawyer Stefano,

00:34:00there is a way to recover,

00:34:01because this is the problem,

00:34:03that these two little girls, right?

00:34:05They need to see their parents

00:34:06which in any case must get along,

00:34:08because now mom is in prison,

00:34:10but then there will be a way to talk,

00:34:13of rational.

00:34:14She wants to take a step forward, Stefano,

00:34:16because I believe that then there must be

00:34:19a reconciliation,

00:34:20precisely for these two sisters.

00:34:22Yes, I'm ready to take care of them already,

00:34:25already tomorrow, if they want, at my house.

00:34:27I've been waiting for them for a long time,

00:34:29so I've always been ready.

00:34:32Logically now surely they

00:34:34they will need some time

00:34:36to be able to recover.

00:34:38This is yet another shock

00:34:40which they have suffered over all these years.

00:34:43I hope this is the last one,

00:34:44because otherwise from this story

00:34:48we're never getting out of it.

00:34:48We're never getting out of this again.

00:34:49Listen, Lawyer,

00:34:50I would like to hear another lawyer,

00:34:51why a mother's lawyer

00:34:53he resigned.

00:34:55The other lawyer, our Marco Monti,

00:34:57he told him

00:34:57but you felt cheated

00:34:59with all these press releases

00:35:00what were you doing.

00:35:02Let's hear what he answered us.

00:35:06The children,

00:35:08luckily,

00:35:09they are the greatest joy

00:35:12of each of us,

00:35:13because we lived

00:35:1614 days of pure madness,

00:35:20of anxiety and continues

00:35:21and work in progress.

00:35:24These 14 days

00:35:25she was

00:35:26in close contact

00:35:28with mom,

00:35:29with grandfather

00:35:30and with his partner.

00:35:32Always present,

00:35:33I have always been present

00:35:34with everyone.

00:35:35With all three?

00:35:36With everyone.

00:35:37With the whole family,

00:35:38I didn't...

00:35:39I left out

00:35:41family commitments.

00:35:42It's never happened to her

00:35:43came to mind

00:35:44a minimum doubt

00:35:45about this family?

00:35:47Why

00:35:50I was hoping

00:35:50or I knew

00:35:52in my heart

00:35:52that something like that

00:35:54would have put

00:35:55in jeopardy

00:35:56the whole situation.

00:35:58In front of a father

00:36:00that she too

00:36:01in his statement

00:36:01he called frontman

00:36:03and instead the mother

00:36:04she wasn't a fool.

00:36:05Now in hindsight

00:36:06you feel a little

00:36:08teased

00:36:08from these people?

00:36:10Our function

00:36:11it is a defensive function.

00:36:12We talk

00:36:13when we read the documents.

00:36:15Today

00:36:15if I had to stop

00:36:17exclusively

00:36:17to what it is

00:36:18the press release

00:36:19of the prosecution

00:36:22then I should

00:36:23squeeze

00:36:25maybe some disappointments

00:36:26but tomorrow

00:36:28when I have

00:36:28content of the acts

00:36:29I'll know better

00:36:30to deduce

00:36:31and I will answer

00:36:32to those who are

00:36:33the questions

00:36:34which will be possible

00:36:36answer.

00:36:36What I wonder

00:36:37Now

00:36:38to the light

00:36:39of what

00:36:39it came out

00:36:41last night

00:36:42and this night

00:36:44a doubt

00:36:45she

00:36:45have you ever had it?

00:36:46No

00:36:47he knows why not

00:36:48for a reason

00:36:49Why

00:36:53because basically

00:36:54if I had had

00:36:56even the slightest doubt

00:36:57I should have

00:36:58to give communication

00:36:59to judicial duty

00:37:00because it's true

00:37:01that there is a defensive secret

00:37:02but it's also true

00:37:04that anyone

00:37:06he is aware

00:37:07of a crime

00:37:08in this case

00:37:09there was no awareness

00:37:10but at least

00:37:10he had to help

00:37:12the proceeding authority

00:37:13but she

00:37:14Surely

00:37:15he will have advised him

00:37:17to his client

00:37:18that could go

00:37:19encounter

00:37:19to a crime

00:37:20both to his client

00:37:22both to the companion

00:37:22both at...

00:37:24Advised

00:37:24I could have recommended it

00:37:26if it had been for me

00:37:27said something

00:37:27I also sent out a signal

00:37:29but my signals

00:37:30none were given

00:37:33Then he

00:37:33will continue to be

00:37:34mother's lawyer

00:37:35but I

00:37:35what I wanted to say

00:37:36there is a time

00:37:36of the research

00:37:37they have been found

00:37:38there is a time

00:37:39for justice

00:37:40but then there is time

00:37:41to move forward

00:37:42in the sense

00:37:42move on

00:37:43for serenity

00:37:44of these two sisters

00:37:45somehow

00:37:46the parents

00:37:46they have to find a way

00:37:48to make peace

00:37:50Thank you, Lawyer

00:37:51thanks Stefano

00:37:52Thanks Alessia Natali

00:37:53and we'll see each other right away

00:37:55after this short break

00:37:56Thank you

00:38:08my daughter did not commit suicide

00:38:10she is the judge's mother

00:38:12Francesca Ercolini

00:38:13to say it

00:38:13this evening

00:38:14to our correspondent

00:38:15Veronica Briganti

00:38:16but me first

00:38:16I have to thank you

00:38:17Why

00:38:18I asked you

00:38:19if you had at home

00:38:20a scarf

00:38:21similar to that

00:38:23that would have been used

00:38:25to Francesca Ercolini

00:38:26to take his own life

00:38:28thing which

00:38:29Mom doesn't believe

00:38:30and in many

00:38:32you wrote to us

00:38:33you sent us

00:38:34scarf

00:38:35you went

00:38:35in the drawers

00:38:36of mothers

00:38:36of the grandmothers

00:38:37I really do

00:38:38thank you all

00:38:39but I hadn't been precise

00:38:40I'll be precise this evening

00:38:42why this scarf

00:38:43which is very important

00:38:45naturally

00:38:45measure

00:38:461.90 x 12 cm

00:38:49we'll let you see it again

00:38:50the measures are

00:38:511.90 x 12 cm

00:38:55it's a special scarf

00:38:56as if it were

00:38:57a kind of long tie

00:38:59and the parent company

00:39:02he redid it

00:39:02an equal

00:39:03but anyway

00:39:03it would be important

00:39:04have it

00:39:06and then

00:39:07an anonymous letter

00:39:09inside the house

00:39:10Ruggeri

00:39:10violence occurs

00:39:11physical and verbal

00:39:12a situation

00:39:13dangerous and risky

00:39:14hopefully

00:39:15in your intervention

00:39:16before something

00:39:18irremediable

00:39:19the intervention

00:39:20there was no

00:39:21something that cannot be fixed

00:39:22instead yes

00:39:23this letter

00:39:2422 days before

00:39:25of death

00:39:26of the judge

00:39:27Ercolini

00:39:28our correspondent

00:39:29Veronica Briganti

00:39:31with our colleague

00:39:33Christian Mangani

00:39:38I

00:39:39I won't stop

00:39:42until now

00:39:43in which

00:39:43I will not have

00:39:45answers

00:39:46and certainties

00:39:47I'm confident

00:39:49in the activity

00:39:51which is taking place

00:39:53the prosecutor's office

00:39:55of the Eagle

00:39:56I'm confident

00:39:59that they will give me

00:40:02answers

00:40:03and certainties

00:40:05after which

00:40:06Francesca

00:40:07will be able to

00:40:08rest

00:40:09in peace

00:40:11how she died

00:40:12the judge

00:40:13Francesca

00:40:13Ercolini

00:40:14she took off

00:40:15life

00:40:15or it was

00:40:16killed

00:40:17as he hypothesizes

00:40:18the prosecutor's office

00:40:18of the Eagle

00:40:19for death

00:40:20of this woman

00:40:2151 years old

00:40:22married

00:40:22with the lawyer

00:40:23from Pesaro

00:40:24Lorenzo Ruggeri

00:40:25and mother

00:40:26of a son

00:40:26who has just

00:40:27accomplished

00:40:2718 years old

00:40:28Now

00:40:29There are

00:40:29two suspects

00:40:30the husband

00:40:31and a policeman

00:40:32the family friend

00:40:34that has arrived

00:40:34in the house

00:40:35of the street

00:40:35in Zadar

00:40:36in the morning

00:40:37in which Francesca

00:40:38it was found

00:40:39lifeless

00:40:40from husband and son

00:40:41hanging from a scarf

00:40:42silk

00:40:43on the stairs

00:40:45the husband

00:40:46rejects the charges

00:40:47and talks about the process

00:40:48media

00:40:49it's a process

00:40:50media

00:40:51when I

00:40:54I repeat

00:40:54I didn't have

00:40:56not even the time

00:40:57to cry

00:40:57more than me

00:41:00And

00:41:03in life

00:41:03it's a process

00:41:04in which

00:41:05everyday

00:41:07there is one thing

00:41:08which concerns

00:41:10Francesca

00:41:11there is one thing

00:41:11which concerns

00:41:12me

00:41:12there is one thing

00:41:13which concerns

00:41:15my

00:41:15Francesca's mother

00:41:19he doesn't believe in suicide

00:41:20and without accusing

00:41:21Nobody

00:41:22he would just like

00:41:23that they were clarified

00:41:24some dark points

00:41:25of this story

00:41:27without accusing

00:41:28Nobody

00:41:28without wanting to

00:41:30point the finger

00:41:31Surely

00:41:32they will have to tell me

00:41:34What

00:41:35it happened

00:41:36to a daughter

00:41:36who makes a project

00:41:37of life

00:41:38that was furnished

00:41:40a house

00:41:41where to go

00:41:41to study

00:41:42which has surpassed

00:41:44quite different

00:41:46problems

00:41:47in the last

00:41:48moments

00:41:48from the

00:41:49his life

00:41:50always with strength

00:41:52and determination

00:41:53and I had to

00:41:55see

00:41:56in a bar

00:41:59December 23rd

00:42:012022

00:42:01Francesca's mother

00:42:03arrives in Pesaro

00:42:04from Riccia

00:42:04in the province of Campobasso

00:42:06to celebrate Christmas

00:42:08just arrived

00:42:09we went shopping

00:42:11a package

00:42:12of flowers

00:42:12to put on the table

00:42:14how it was

00:42:15his habit

00:42:16he did

00:42:18a house

00:42:19Extremely beautiful

00:42:21we had dinner

00:42:23Christmas Day

00:42:25we were at home

00:42:27from the

00:42:27of the mother

00:42:29by Lorenzo

00:42:30guests

00:42:30how it was

00:42:31by tradition

00:42:32to be prefaced

00:42:34that I had climbed up

00:42:35because my nephew

00:42:36he had insisted

00:42:37what he wanted to do

00:42:38a Christmas

00:42:39all together

00:42:41normal

00:42:41all together

00:42:42normal

00:42:44but things

00:42:45in the house

00:42:46of Via Zara

00:42:47they didn't go

00:42:47Very good

00:42:48Francesca

00:42:49Unfortunately

00:42:50would be a victim

00:42:50of violence

00:42:51physical

00:42:52and psychological

00:42:53documented

00:42:54also from some photos

00:42:55sent to the mother

00:42:57even the day

00:42:58of Christmas

00:42:58after lunch

00:42:59things

00:43:00they get complicated

00:43:01that day

00:43:02there have been

00:43:03a bit

00:43:03of difficulty

00:43:06a bit

00:43:07of difficulty

00:43:09let's say

00:43:10after lunch

00:43:11a bit

00:43:12of confusion

00:43:15she

00:43:17it's gone

00:43:18at mass

00:43:19with

00:43:21of relatives

00:43:23Then

00:43:24she's back

00:43:25from me

00:43:26with the intention

00:43:27Of

00:43:27to make me

00:43:29company

00:43:30Why

00:43:31Francesca

00:43:32had purchased

00:43:33an apartment

00:43:35where I was going

00:43:37from a certain

00:43:38full stop

00:43:39he had it

00:43:39renovated

00:43:40and I

00:43:41I was going

00:43:42in that apartment

00:43:43Why

00:43:43he wanted to give me

00:43:47autonomy

00:43:47when he was

00:43:49in Pesaro

00:43:49when I was

00:43:50in Pesaro

00:43:50and where she

00:43:52he came to work

00:43:53in peace

00:43:56Francesca

00:43:57Francesca

00:43:57must return

00:43:57in the house

00:43:58of the street

00:43:58Zara

00:43:59which is little

00:43:59distant

00:44:00from the apartment

00:44:01who purchased

00:44:02to take

00:44:03some things

00:44:03Then

00:44:04it is no longer

00:44:05returned

00:44:05he told me

00:44:07that remained there

00:44:09it's the night

00:44:10of Christmas

00:44:10in the morning

00:44:12is found

00:44:13lifeless

00:44:14but what happened

00:44:16in this house

00:44:17in the morning

00:44:18of Santo Stefano

00:44:19four years ago

00:44:27at 9.30

00:44:28the husband

00:44:29by Francesca

00:44:30Lorenzo Ruggeri

00:44:31lawyer

00:44:31very well known

00:44:32in the city

00:44:33he goes out

00:44:34for a walk

00:44:35in the center

00:44:35Francesca

00:44:37stays at home

00:44:38with his son

00:44:38the mother

00:44:39Carmela

00:44:40he sends them

00:44:40a message

00:44:41How is it going?

00:44:42It's 9.51am

00:44:44Francesca

00:44:45he answers

00:44:46Always

00:44:46with a message

00:44:47he writes

00:44:48that the son

00:44:49he's still sleeping

00:44:50and that she

00:44:51he's in bed

00:44:52because she is very tired

00:44:53and what

00:44:54is Francesca answering you?

00:44:55it was a bar

00:44:56he rested a little longer

00:44:58at 10.15

00:44:59according to a first

00:45:00reconstruction

00:45:01the husband

00:45:02is found

00:45:02at the bar

00:45:03near home

00:45:03where it meets

00:45:05with friend

00:45:05police officer

00:45:06he reaches him

00:45:07the son too

00:45:08then a minor

00:45:09so Francesca

00:45:11would have remained

00:45:12alone

00:45:12at home

00:45:1336 minutes pass

00:45:15at 10.51am

00:45:17from the phone

00:45:18by Francesca

00:45:19a phone call starts

00:45:20to the friend

00:45:21police officer

00:45:2110 minutes

00:45:23of phone call

00:45:23until 11.01am

00:45:25for what reason

00:45:27Francesca

00:45:28he calls

00:45:28to the policeman?

00:45:30we don't know

00:45:31at 11.02

00:45:33Francesca

00:45:34call her husband

00:45:35a phone call

00:45:36of a few seconds

00:45:37at 11.06

00:45:38Francesca

00:45:39call again

00:45:40the husband

00:45:40for a minute

00:45:41rare

00:45:42to ask him

00:45:43according to what

00:45:44he states

00:45:44Lorenzo Ruggeri

00:45:45at what time

00:45:46they would have returned

00:45:47At home

00:45:48him and his son

00:45:49at 11.20am

00:45:50always according to

00:45:52the story

00:45:52of the husband

00:45:53him and his son

00:45:54they return

00:45:55and they find

00:45:55Francesca

00:45:56hanging from the fulcrum

00:45:57between the floor

00:45:58of the attic

00:45:59and that

00:45:59of the rooms

00:46:00from bed

00:46:01Francesca

00:46:02wear pajamas

00:46:03that had been given to her

00:46:04given as a Christmas gift

00:46:0510 minutes pass

00:46:07at 11.30

00:46:08is called

00:46:09the 112

00:46:10the son

00:46:11reports that

00:46:12the fular

00:46:12around the neck

00:46:13of the mother

00:46:13it was cut

00:46:15and that the body

00:46:16it was brought

00:46:16from the floor

00:46:17of the rooms

00:46:18from bed

00:46:18on the ground floor

00:46:19who told her

00:46:21Francesca is dead

00:46:23that morning

00:46:24when she arrived

00:46:25there in Zara Street

00:46:26they didn't give me

00:46:28At that time

00:46:28a person

00:46:31he told me

00:46:31Francesca

00:46:36Francesca

00:46:37Francesca

00:46:39I

00:46:41I understood immediately

00:46:43that I wasn't going

00:46:44it didn't work

00:46:45Excuse me

00:46:45and they started

00:46:47to say

00:46:49versions

00:46:49different

00:46:51and this was

00:46:53for me

00:46:53another

00:46:54signal

00:46:55what did they tell her

00:46:56and who told her

00:46:57these versions

00:46:58of people

00:47:00barbiturates

00:47:01heart attack

00:47:04and then

00:47:05practically

00:47:08ground floor

00:47:11they were talking to me

00:47:12of a balustrade

00:47:14of the ground floor

00:47:14but that was all

00:47:15confused

00:47:16and remains

00:47:17confused

00:47:19for the prosecution

00:47:20from Pesaro

00:47:20there is no doubt

00:47:21Francesca Ercolini

00:47:22she took her own life

00:47:23hanging himself

00:47:24with a scarf

00:47:25silk

00:47:25we waited

00:47:27that he came

00:47:28autopsy performed

00:47:29in Fano

00:47:31and I got it

00:47:32reported

00:47:33to the country

00:47:33of origin

00:47:34of my family

00:47:36with a truth

00:47:37Francesca

00:47:38she took her own life

00:47:39with a scarf

00:47:40this was the truth

00:47:41that was given to her

00:47:41delivered

00:47:42No

00:47:43Francesca

00:47:44she took her own life

00:47:45tip

00:47:47but she

00:47:48he never believed

00:47:49to this

00:47:49absolutely

00:47:50Why

00:47:51because I had

00:47:53many

00:47:54many things

00:47:55that didn't come back

00:47:56but

00:47:58I stayed

00:47:59there

00:48:01they were

00:48:01let's say

00:48:02my

00:48:03my thoughts

00:48:05What

00:48:07it didn't make sense to her

00:48:08it didn't make sense to me

00:48:09the fact

00:48:09that she

00:48:10had

00:48:10scheduled

00:48:11and I knew it

00:48:13all month

00:48:15of January

00:48:16with appointments

00:48:18veterinarian

00:48:19beautician

00:48:20and more

00:48:23and then

00:48:24he said

00:48:24that he had

00:48:27a project

00:48:28a project

00:48:29of life

00:48:32had planned

00:48:33paddle

00:48:34what he was doing

00:48:35In short

00:48:35many things

00:48:36the things she did

00:48:37normally

00:48:38in addition to being indignant

00:48:41in his work

00:48:49Francesca's mother

00:48:51he doesn't believe in suicide

00:48:52and it is not given

00:48:53for won

00:48:54she knows

00:48:55because the daughter

00:48:56he sent her photos

00:48:57of bruises

00:48:57and marks on the body

00:48:58that inside the house

00:49:00Francesca

00:49:01would have been a victim

00:49:02of violence

00:49:03psychological

00:49:04and physical

00:49:04the fact

00:49:06is that

00:49:07in many

00:49:08in Pesaro

00:49:09they knew

00:49:10this situation

00:49:12in many

00:49:13what he wrote to her

00:49:14his daughter

00:49:15what he was denouncing

00:49:17his daughter to her

00:49:19a state

00:49:20of discomfort

00:49:21a state

00:49:22Of

00:49:24mistreatment

00:49:25physicists

00:49:25and minutes

00:49:27and I stop

00:49:28here

00:49:28because of this

00:49:29Carmela Fusco

00:49:3022 days before

00:49:32of death

00:49:32of the daughter

00:49:33writes a letter

00:49:34at the police station

00:49:35from Pesaro

00:49:36I report to your

00:49:38Attention

00:49:38for many months

00:49:40in Viale Zara

00:49:4038

00:49:40in Pesaro

00:49:42Ruggeri family

00:49:43they happen

00:49:44physical violence

00:49:44and minutes

00:49:45often the screams

00:49:46and threats

00:49:47they happen in the garden

00:49:48with stone throwing

00:49:49and objects

00:49:49a situation

00:49:51very dangerous

00:49:52and at risk

00:49:52hopefully

00:49:53in your intervention

00:49:55before something

00:49:56irremediable

00:49:57because she

00:49:58raises the alarm

00:50:00but decides

00:50:01of not

00:50:01sign

00:50:02that letter

00:50:04sent

00:50:04at the police station

00:50:05because I knew

00:50:07I had informed myself

00:50:09that even existed

00:50:10an application

00:50:12of the police headquarters

00:50:13to which

00:50:15we could turn to

00:50:17for reports

00:50:19even anonymous ones

00:50:21and that therefore

00:50:22even the anonymous ones

00:50:24would have been evaluated

00:50:26I was convinced of this

00:50:28that I wanted

00:50:30protect

00:50:31but don't make me hate

00:50:34for a step

00:50:36that in many

00:50:37they should have

00:50:38and I could do it

00:50:40and why

00:50:43I was hoping

00:50:45that someone

00:50:47he moved

00:50:49but the police headquarters

00:50:50from Pesaro

00:50:51it doesn't do anything

00:50:52and for this reason

00:50:53the boss

00:50:54of the team

00:50:54mobile

00:50:55he is under investigation

00:50:56by omission

00:50:57of acts

00:50:57ex officio

00:50:59the husband

00:51:00the lawyer

00:51:01Ruggeri

00:51:01now under investigation

00:51:02for the murder

00:51:03by Francesca

00:51:04rejects

00:51:05all the charges

00:51:06anyway she

00:51:06to the question

00:51:07if indeed

00:51:09Francesca

00:51:09suffered

00:51:10of the violence

00:51:11physical and psychological

00:51:12on his part

00:51:12what does he answer?

00:51:14Therefore

00:51:15In short

00:51:15here she is

00:51:16you can't hear it

00:51:17to make statements

00:51:18at this moment

00:51:20because we are

00:51:21In short

00:51:22on television

00:51:23so she

00:51:24he has no responsibility

00:51:25in death

00:51:25of his wife

00:51:26I really think so

00:51:26that it is a thing

00:51:27completely unfounded

00:51:29Ruggeri

00:51:30he says he is innocent

00:51:31On the contrary

00:51:32accuses the mother

00:51:32by Francesca

00:51:33to be aware

00:51:34of intentions

00:51:35suicidal

00:51:36of the daughter

00:51:37and not to have it

00:51:38reported

00:51:38what does he answer?

00:51:39she to this?

00:51:40I answer

00:51:41That

00:51:42simply

00:51:43I understand

00:51:45the right

00:51:46to defend themselves

00:51:47of course

00:51:48I recognize

00:51:50the right

00:51:50to defend themselves

00:51:51but I would like

00:51:53that the defense

00:51:55happened

00:51:56on the facts

00:51:58on the documents

00:51:59on the facts

00:52:00found

00:52:01not on the

00:52:04sensations

00:52:05and the reported

00:52:06but it's true

00:52:08that Francesca

00:52:08he had confided in her

00:52:09these intentions

00:52:10absolutely

00:52:11No

00:52:18my daughter

00:52:19she didn't commit suicide

00:52:20repeats the mother

00:52:21and makes a complaint

00:52:23to the prosecutor's office

00:52:23of the Eagle

00:52:24the case

00:52:24it is reopened

00:52:25the body

00:52:26by Francesca Ercolini

00:52:27is exhumed

00:52:28and the professor

00:52:29Fineschi

00:52:30consultant

00:52:30for the prosecution

00:52:31opens a new one

00:52:32scenario

00:52:33the sign

00:52:34on the neck

00:52:34of Ercolini

00:52:35could be

00:52:36was provoked

00:52:37from an object

00:52:38much harder

00:52:39of a scarf

00:52:40silk

00:52:41and then

00:52:42there are other things

00:52:43to be clarified

00:52:44Francesca

00:52:45he had a blow

00:52:46on the head

00:52:47in the back

00:52:48and a wound

00:52:49on the left eye

00:52:51a nail

00:52:51of the left hand

00:52:52broken

00:52:53it is possible

00:52:54that this type

00:52:55of injuries

00:52:56are compatible

00:52:57with a hanging?

00:52:59there's more

00:53:00look at this photo

00:53:02it's a stain

00:53:03of blood

00:53:03on the wall

00:53:04of the stairs

00:53:04where the scarf

00:53:06was

00:53:06knotted

00:53:07who does it belong to?

00:53:08that blood?

00:53:09is it Francesca's?

00:53:11and how did it get there

00:53:12there

00:53:12so far away

00:53:13where the body comes from

00:53:14was it found?

00:53:16the police

00:53:17during the inspection

00:53:18did not find anything

00:53:19that stain

00:53:20of blood

00:53:20always on the scarf

00:53:22there is another mystery

00:53:23look

00:53:24this other photo

00:53:25it's the piece

00:53:26of scarves

00:53:26which has been cut

00:53:28they are 30 centimeters

00:53:30made of cloth

00:53:30photographed

00:53:31from the police

00:53:32well

00:53:33this piece

00:53:34of scarves

00:53:35he disappeared

00:53:35it can't be found anymore

00:53:37what happened to him

00:53:38and why?

00:53:39he wants to make an appeal

00:53:41to anyone

00:53:42know something

00:53:43moreover

00:53:44of this story?

00:53:45in many

00:53:46they know her

00:53:47I'm convinced

00:53:49that in many

00:53:52may

00:53:53say

00:53:54something

00:53:54and then

00:53:57I invite them

00:53:58to do

00:54:00rest

00:54:01in peace

00:54:02my daughter

00:54:03which was

00:54:03Kind

00:54:05and available

00:54:07with all the people

00:54:08who has known

00:54:10to come forward

00:54:12in any way

00:54:13in any medium

00:54:16if

00:54:18I am aware

00:54:20of something

00:54:20Why

00:54:21can help us

00:54:23and Francesca

00:54:24he needs

00:54:25to rest

00:54:26in peace

00:54:33we had you

00:54:34Tamer talked about

00:54:35we told you

00:54:36who had been arrested

00:54:37but Nessi had told us

00:54:38look

00:54:38not even 100 euros are enough

00:54:40in this case

00:54:4080 euro deposit

00:54:41Surely

00:54:42will be released

00:54:43that's how it was

00:54:44we are connected

00:54:45with Nessi Guerra

00:54:46that still

00:54:47this secret location

00:54:49with his little girl

00:54:50that goes on

00:54:52Good evening

00:54:52Connections

00:54:53that goes on like this

00:54:54listen to Nessi

00:54:55I would make you feel

00:54:55before giving you the floor

00:54:57Tamer

00:54:57because he is very talkative

00:54:59with his social profiles

00:55:00he speaks

00:55:01speaks

00:55:01to talk too much

00:55:02we can say

00:55:03let's see what he said

00:55:04immediately after

00:55:05who was released from prison

00:55:08I have been

00:55:09arrested

00:55:10and thrown into prison

00:55:11and I can say that

00:55:12of all

00:55:14every month

00:55:14the months

00:55:15that I spent in prison

00:55:17it was made clear

00:55:18clearly

00:55:18That

00:55:21this country

00:55:22he doesn't want it

00:55:23Jesus

00:55:23and he doesn't want it

00:55:24not even Italy

00:55:25nobody wants it

00:55:26me at this point

00:55:28I leave it in your hands

00:55:29of our lord

00:55:30the judgment

00:55:31I'm leaving

00:55:32and I disappear

00:55:33forever

00:55:34I don't say it publicly

00:55:35where am I going

00:55:36but

00:55:36I say that

00:55:38I will give as an inheritance

00:55:40to the country

00:55:41who will come forward

00:55:42to take me

00:55:43given that

00:55:43I will have

00:55:44I also received

00:55:45of the proposals

00:55:47any amount

00:55:48OK

00:55:50that we can

00:55:51discuss

00:55:51Now

00:55:55until

00:55:55500 million

00:55:56of euros

00:55:57I care

00:55:58to clarify

00:55:59That

00:56:00the fact that

00:56:01I say yes

00:56:01I disappear

00:56:01and I'm leaving

00:56:02over here

00:56:02and I don't do it

00:56:03know where they are

00:56:04it doesn't mean

00:56:04that I interrupt

00:56:05to make videos

00:56:06the videos

00:56:07I don't interrupt them

00:56:08if I interrupt

00:56:08the videos

00:56:09it means

00:56:09what they did to me

00:56:10disappear again

00:56:10and that is not known

00:56:11where did I go

00:56:12to finish

00:56:14we will hear later

00:56:16breast

00:56:16the lack

00:56:17of his videos

00:56:17this country

00:56:18he doesn't want it

00:56:19Jesus

00:56:19why Jesus

00:56:20it's him

00:56:20naturally

00:56:21It's Tamer

00:56:22And

00:56:23Connections

00:56:24among other things

00:56:25we remember

00:56:25who had threatened

00:56:26the honorary consul

00:56:27In short

00:56:27because of this

00:56:28he had been arrested

00:56:29you feel

00:56:30everyday

00:56:31with ours

00:56:31Vittorio Romano

00:56:33now you feel

00:56:33safer

00:56:34that Tamer

00:56:35he says

00:56:35That

00:56:36will be accepted

00:56:37who is invited

00:56:39from other countries

00:56:42Well

00:56:42if I may express

00:56:43a comment

00:56:44about this video

00:56:44I would say it is

00:56:45quite disturbing

00:56:46Anyway

00:56:47No

00:56:48I don't feel like it

00:56:48Calm

00:56:49Why

00:56:49Obviously

00:56:50him

00:56:51he won't do it

00:56:52and can't

00:56:53leave the country

00:56:54because it has three cases

00:56:55standing

00:56:56at this moment

00:56:56in the next week

00:56:58exactly there will be

00:57:00the case

00:57:01which concerns

00:57:02him and his father

00:57:02where the father

00:57:03he reported it

00:57:05for assault

00:57:05and violation of domicile

00:57:07and then there will be

00:57:08even a hearing

00:57:08with regard to

00:57:09his former lawyer

00:57:10that he has it too

00:57:11reported

00:57:12of threats

00:57:13and defamation

00:57:14Therefore

00:57:15I really don't think so

00:57:16that he can

00:57:17leave the country

00:57:18And

00:57:20I keep doing

00:57:21these videos

00:57:21disturbing

00:57:22I wonder why

00:57:23no one stops him

00:57:24and accompanies him

00:57:25in a clinic

00:57:26And

00:57:27I wonder why

00:57:28every time he

00:57:29he is arrested

00:57:30then punctually

00:57:31he manages to get out

00:57:32this is really

00:57:33strange

00:57:34we renew

00:57:35our appeal

00:57:36to the Italian government

00:57:37as

00:57:38In short

00:57:39we are not

00:57:40in conditions

00:57:41of safety

00:57:41and there's a little girl

00:57:42three and a half years old

00:57:44here that

00:57:44he needs

00:57:45to live

00:57:46it's certain

00:57:47to make a life

00:57:48normal

00:57:49in Italy

00:57:50where among other things

00:57:51your parents are there

00:57:52where you would like

00:57:53to return rightly

00:57:54with your daughter

00:57:56then we

00:57:57Tamera was released

00:57:59but we wait

00:58:00the liberation

00:58:01by Nessi Guerra

00:58:03thanks Nessi

00:58:04resist

00:58:05resist

00:58:06See you then

00:58:07immediately after

00:58:07a few seconds of pause

00:58:21before speaking to you

00:58:23some news

00:58:23on Pietra Catella

00:58:24and the mother

00:58:25and the daughter

00:58:26who are dead

00:58:27due to ricin

00:58:28we present to you

00:58:28one of our guests

00:58:29which is really special

00:58:30with his lawyer

00:58:31Luca Trapani

00:58:32his name is

00:58:33Rainer Hakenberg

00:58:35is with ours

00:58:36envoy

00:58:37Francis Paul of the King

00:58:38At that time

00:58:39what happened

00:58:40that maybe

00:58:40it's the only case

00:58:41Italian judiciary

00:58:42for which

00:58:43someone goes to jail

00:58:45Why

00:58:46with ricin

00:58:47he wanted to accomplish

00:58:48a crime

00:58:49to kill someone

00:58:50fortunately

00:58:50he served

00:58:52his punishment

00:58:53he didn't succeed

00:58:54and Rainer Hakenberg

00:58:57he accepted

00:58:57to stay with us

00:58:59this evening

00:58:59before understanding

00:59:01how he took possession

00:59:02right in his laboratory

00:59:03which then was

00:59:04searched

00:59:05seized

00:59:06before going

00:59:07from them

00:59:08let's go to Pietracatella

00:59:09Why

00:59:10the murder is against the unknown

00:59:11but now there is a woman

00:59:13reported

00:59:14a friend of

00:59:15Antonella

00:59:16Francis Paul of the King

00:59:17with Maria Giovanna

00:59:18but the door

00:59:18she is serene

00:59:19Antonella

00:59:26Antonella in the past

00:59:28he had thought

00:59:29to leave Gianni

00:59:29her husband

00:59:30to separate

00:59:31or to divorce him

00:59:32and to turn to

00:59:33to a lawyer

00:59:34why his marriage

00:59:35he had gone into crisis

00:59:37this is it

00:59:38that they would have understood

00:59:39the investigators

00:59:39studying his cell phone

00:59:41to open a crack

00:59:43on the surface

00:59:44of a normality

00:59:45apparently happy

00:59:46this news arrives

00:59:48that whoever investigates

00:59:48learns directly

00:59:50from Antonella's words

00:59:52from what she wrote

00:59:54in some messages

00:59:55sent to a woman

00:59:56a friend

00:59:57yes because the phones

00:59:59seized

01:00:00they start talking

01:00:02we had asked

01:00:03of relationships

01:00:04between husband and wife

01:00:05to Vittorino Facciolla

01:00:06the lawyer

01:00:07by Gianni di Vita

01:00:08each of us

01:00:09can live

01:00:09of the difficulties

01:00:11temporary

01:00:11I don't even know

01:00:12if it's their case

01:00:13I say it

01:00:14with great

01:00:15frankness

01:00:16but it seems to me

01:00:17that the value

01:00:18of mutual love

01:00:20was preponderant

01:00:21in this case

01:00:22it's one of those

01:00:24events

01:00:24if we want

01:00:26even in the province

01:00:26in which

01:00:27even live

01:00:28in a context

01:00:30provincial

01:00:30precisely

01:00:31takes you

01:00:31to build loyalty

01:00:33even more

01:00:34the family relationship

01:00:35the lawyer

01:00:37little face

01:00:37he had mentioned

01:00:38to some difficulties

01:00:39temporary

01:00:40between Gianni and Antonella

01:00:41today reiterates

01:00:43which are things

01:00:44very old

01:00:44without any connection

01:00:46with death

01:00:46of mother and daughter

01:00:47because incredibly

01:00:49dating back

01:00:49back in time

01:00:51a narrative

01:00:52he says

01:00:52totally destitute

01:00:54of meaning

01:00:55compared to current events

01:00:56he also explains to us

01:00:57that Gianni and Antonella

01:00:58they did

01:00:59a therapeutic path

01:01:00which was

01:01:01already reported

01:01:02to the investigators

01:01:03and that their crisis

01:01:04had been overcome

01:01:06but then

01:01:07the news is that

01:01:09summoned

01:01:09for the third time

01:01:10at the police station

01:01:11to be heard

01:01:12as a person

01:01:12informed about the facts

01:01:13the friend

01:01:14to which Antonella

01:01:15had sent

01:01:16of messages

01:01:16on a possible divorce

01:01:18continued

01:01:19to tell

01:01:19to the mobile squad

01:01:20that between husband and wife

01:01:21there were no problems

01:01:23or tensions

01:01:23but these chats

01:01:25in which Antonella

01:01:26he would have spoken

01:01:26of divorce

01:01:27when do they date back to?

01:01:28they are recent

01:01:30or they refer to

01:01:30in the past

01:01:31in the period of crisis

01:01:32that he had told us about

01:01:33the husband's lawyer

01:01:34it seems to us

01:01:36which are messages

01:01:37of 2022

01:01:38according to the judicial police

01:01:40there would be

01:01:41of incongruities

01:01:42between that

01:01:43that the friend

01:01:43he declared

01:01:44several times at the police station

01:01:45and the chats

01:01:45that she

01:01:46was exchanged

01:01:47with Antonella

01:01:48highlighted

01:01:49these elements

01:01:50the judicial police

01:01:51he reported

01:01:52this woman

01:01:53for aiding and abetting

01:01:54I don't want to release

01:01:56no statement

01:01:57why was it summoned?

01:01:58can you tell us?

01:01:59I don't want to release

01:02:00none

01:02:01she was a friend of his

01:02:01we can say this

01:02:02she was a friend of his

01:02:04she is a friend of Gianni

01:02:06but not

01:02:07I didn't express myself well

01:02:09I don't want to release

01:02:11no statement

01:02:12what I remember

01:02:12what kind of person he was

01:02:13but who is this woman?

01:02:15she is originally from Pietracatella

01:02:17he lived a few meters away

01:02:19from Gianni's house

01:02:20she then moved

01:02:22in a nearby town

01:02:23and to be at the beginning

01:02:24a friend of Gianni

01:02:25this woman

01:02:26becomes later

01:02:27friend of Antonella too

01:02:29so much so that Antonella

01:02:30described by all

01:02:31like a person

01:02:32of a discretion

01:02:33out of the ordinary

01:02:34he comes to talk to her

01:02:35of very delicate issues

01:02:37like thought

01:02:39of a divorce

01:02:40the citizens

01:02:41they are all collaborating

01:02:42I don't know what it means

01:02:43this complaint

01:02:44for aiding and abetting

01:02:45it's a thing

01:02:46that we need to understand

01:02:47we don't know

01:02:48what it could mean

01:02:49from this point of view

01:02:55June 13th

01:02:56we celebrate

01:02:57Saint Anthony

01:02:58one of the anniversaries

01:02:59most heartfelt

01:03:00in Pietracatella

01:03:01with a procession

01:03:02and participation

01:03:03of all citizens

01:03:06it is however

01:03:07a bitter celebration

01:03:08an entire country

01:03:10he questions himself

01:03:11and a mother

01:03:12and a daughter

01:03:12there are no more

01:03:18the memory

01:03:19it is constant

01:03:20in the course

01:03:21of these

01:03:22of these months

01:03:24of these periods

01:03:25Therefore

01:03:25it's a holiday

01:03:26it's a holiday

01:03:27for the community

01:03:28it was a day

01:03:29of memory

01:03:30yesterday too

01:03:31with the torchlight procession

01:03:41the budget

01:03:42at this point it is

01:03:43a woman reported

01:03:44for aiding and abetting

01:03:45a file

01:03:46for voluntary homicide

01:03:47premeditated

01:03:48against the unknown

01:03:49and another

01:03:50for manslaughter

01:03:51against 5 doctors

01:04:00in the card game

01:04:01that the Larino prosecutor's office

01:04:03he's playing

01:04:03with the alleged

01:04:04poisoner

01:04:05by Antonella and Sara

01:04:06for now

01:04:07they are not here

01:04:07nor winners

01:04:08nor losers

01:04:10we continue to play

01:04:12keeping your cards face down

01:04:13through investigations

01:04:15under the radar

01:04:15technical analysis

01:04:16and scientific analyses

01:04:18collection of testimonies

01:04:19but they are evaluated

01:04:21any

01:04:22contradictions

01:04:23that could

01:04:24emerge

01:04:24in the stories

01:04:25of the protagonists

01:04:26of this story

01:04:27summoned

01:04:29one by one

01:04:29at the police station

01:04:30from Campobasso

01:04:31to be heard

01:04:32from the agents

01:04:33of the team

01:04:33Love

01:04:34certainly the hypothesis

01:04:36of murder

01:04:37voluntary

01:04:37and premeditated

01:04:38which he investigates

01:04:39the prosecutor's office

01:04:40leaves you incredulous

01:04:41but the bad facts

01:04:42they happen to all parties

01:04:44but on this case

01:04:45I do not know

01:04:46In short

01:04:47that is the only thing

01:04:48what can I say

01:04:49sorry

01:04:50because after all

01:04:50I'm dead

01:04:52sorry

01:04:52they died

01:04:54as we know

01:04:55a woman

01:04:5550 years old

01:04:56and a girl

01:04:57of 15

01:04:57evil

01:04:58which could be

01:04:59been addressed

01:05:00to the family

01:05:01by Gianni

01:05:01Antonella

01:05:02Alice

01:05:02and Sara

01:05:02with the arrival

01:05:03of the poison

01:05:04in the days

01:05:04of Christmas

01:05:05stay for now

01:05:06without explanation

01:05:08but if there was

01:05:09a murder

01:05:10there must be

01:05:11a motive

01:05:11and it's the motive

01:05:13that the prosecution

01:05:13he is making an effort

01:05:14to identify

01:05:15to give a name

01:05:16and a face

01:05:17to the possible

01:05:18murderer

01:05:18of Pietracatella

01:05:19in life

01:05:20you are born

01:05:21you live

01:05:22and you die

01:05:23there are three fundamental things

01:05:25three fundamental laws

01:05:27that cannot be changed

01:05:28three other laws

01:05:30everyone

01:05:32we can change

01:05:33hatred

01:05:34envy

01:05:34and jealousy

01:05:35this gentleman

01:05:36he speaks to us of hate

01:05:37of envy

01:05:38and jealousy

01:05:39human factors

01:05:40that can mess up

01:05:41the universal laws

01:05:42who govern

01:05:43destiny

01:05:44of all of us

01:05:45hatred

01:05:46envy

01:05:46and jealousy

01:05:47ingredients maybe

01:05:49of the soup

01:05:49poisoned

01:05:50of Pietracatella

01:05:51I think that

01:05:53that's it

01:05:54it's hate

01:05:54Certain

01:05:56I think so

01:05:58because I hate

01:05:58envy

01:05:59and jealousy

01:05:59this is

01:06:00bar philosophy

01:06:01Perhaps

01:06:02but with a pinch

01:06:03common sense

01:06:04while the whole country

01:06:06waits

01:06:07with bated breath

01:06:08hoping that

01:06:09if there is a murderer

01:06:11this killer

01:06:12can be constituted

01:06:15me personally

01:06:16I wouldn't live

01:06:17if I would have done

01:06:18one thing

01:06:20In short

01:06:20an evil action

01:06:22I would not live anymore

01:06:23if really

01:06:24it happened

01:06:25that someone

01:06:26he will have done this thing

01:06:27as only I can

01:06:29it was me

01:06:30instead of doing

01:06:32many things

01:06:33judiciary

01:06:35this and that other one

01:06:36I'm made like this

01:06:37and then

01:06:38more than this

01:06:39I would not know

01:06:39maybe feeling

01:06:41his words

01:06:42someone can

01:06:43give it some thought

01:06:45I hope so

01:06:46the confession though

01:06:48it hasn't arrived yet

01:06:49but there is ricin

01:06:50the instrument

01:06:52which should

01:06:52to have brought

01:06:53death

01:06:53under the lights

01:06:54of the Christmas tree

01:06:55the only certainty

01:06:57of this story

01:06:58the killer protein

01:06:59found by scientists

01:07:00of the poison control center

01:07:01from Pavia

01:07:02in the blood

01:07:03of mother and daughter

01:07:05what remains

01:07:06to understand

01:07:06that's how it was possible

01:07:07enter the house

01:07:08the place

01:07:10more impregnable

01:07:11at least in theory

01:07:12we don't know

01:07:14the situation

01:07:15as

01:07:15Therefore

01:07:15we don't have

01:07:17no

01:07:19there is no one

01:07:20concept

01:07:20of these things here

01:07:21I hear the chatter

01:07:23but

01:07:24and what a chatter

01:07:25do they hear?

01:07:26the gossip

01:07:26of the people

01:07:27what they say

01:07:29who of a vanera

01:07:29who of another

01:07:30but

01:07:31I do not know

01:07:33the gossip

01:07:34there are many

01:07:35since day one

01:07:36he fantasized

01:07:38a lot about this story

01:07:38maybe because

01:07:40Gianni di Vita

01:07:41Antonella's husband

01:07:42and Sarah's father

01:07:43the two victims

01:07:43of ricin

01:07:44in addition to being an accountant

01:07:46he is a prominent person

01:07:47he was mayor

01:07:48for two terms

01:07:49and his family

01:07:50she is the owner

01:07:51of a mill

01:07:52and so

01:07:53we talked

01:07:54of adulterers

01:07:55of revenge

01:07:55of water

01:07:56of machinations

01:07:57diabolical

01:07:59but the gossip

01:08:00he takes them away

01:08:01the wind

01:08:01and we must stay

01:08:03with your feet

01:08:03well planted

01:08:04on the ground

01:08:04trying to have

01:08:06respect

01:08:06for these two deaths

01:08:08sudden

01:08:08and disturbing

01:08:09the mother is young

01:08:11and very young

01:08:12the daughter

01:08:12Now

01:08:13how did it happen

01:08:17it is not known

01:08:18but the thought

01:08:19that two people

01:08:20so young

01:08:20they can die

01:08:21so suddenly

01:08:22it makes an impression

01:08:23and then impression

01:08:24Yes

01:08:24but all the people

01:08:26all that

01:08:26that we have known

01:08:29we are all impressed

01:08:30for this fact

01:08:31but I say

01:08:32how does a poison work?

01:08:33to enter a house

01:08:34oh well

01:08:36I don't know this

01:08:37I really don't know

01:08:38I don't know how he does it

01:08:39the poison

01:08:40to enter a house

01:08:40there

01:08:41if the poison

01:08:42he entered

01:08:43in the house

01:08:45they gave it to her

01:08:46out of the house

01:08:48This

01:08:48would be

01:08:49to be discovered

01:08:50and then why

01:08:52who could have it

01:08:53with a mother

01:08:54of the family

01:08:55and a little girl

01:08:56but I don't know

01:08:57I do not know

01:08:58you know there's something

01:09:00among themselves

01:09:00between

01:09:01other people

01:09:02That

01:09:03but it really is

01:09:04an impressive thing

01:09:06they didn't look like people

01:09:07Of

01:09:09it was also

01:09:10the mayor

01:09:10the husband

01:09:11he is a person

01:09:12in sight

01:09:13well-liked

01:09:14yes yes yes

01:09:15the mayor

01:09:16he was a good person

01:09:18the people

01:09:19it can't be explained

01:09:20no one can give

01:09:23pure

01:09:23an address

01:09:25a bit

01:09:26it could have been like this

01:09:27nobody knows

01:09:28nobody knows

01:09:29one thinks many things

01:09:30but how do you do it?

01:09:31to say

01:09:33it's like this

01:09:35that's the fact

01:09:36you can't blame

01:09:37a person

01:09:38that maybe this

01:09:39he's a friend of mine

01:09:40it was him

01:09:47then look

01:09:48our

01:09:48Francis Paul

01:09:49it's in this lab

01:09:50where is it

01:09:51the lawyer

01:09:52Luca Maria Trapani

01:09:53with Rainer

01:09:54Ackenberg

01:09:55and there in that laboratory

01:09:56it was packaged

01:09:57of ricin

01:09:58to kill

01:09:59a rival

01:10:00in love

01:10:00fortunately

01:10:01the rival

01:10:02in love

01:10:03is

01:10:04alive and well

01:10:05but Rainer

01:10:06he went to prison

01:10:07but it's a complicated story

01:10:09you can tell us about it

01:10:10Francis Paul

01:10:13yes Federica

01:10:14It starts in this place

01:10:15It's a place that Rainer

01:10:16he hadn't seen for a long time

01:10:17it makes an impression on him

01:10:18I would like to have him tell it

01:10:20where we are

01:10:21thanks Francesco

01:10:22At that time

01:10:22we are in the place

01:10:24in which

01:10:24it all began

01:10:26ago

01:10:26effect of seeing it

01:10:28because it is almost unchanged

01:10:29respect

01:10:30when I was

01:10:31arrested

01:10:33the question

01:10:35it doesn't concern

01:10:35a question of mine

01:10:36of personal love

01:10:37but I was commissioned

01:10:38to do this job

01:10:39on behalf of third parties

01:10:41and here they are still

01:10:43some leftovers

01:10:44of what it was

01:10:44the laboratory

01:10:45before they came

01:10:47to do a search

01:10:48complete

01:10:48with the overalls

01:10:50the masks

01:10:50and all the equipment

01:10:51of the case

01:10:53Therefore

01:10:54this is what remains

01:10:55of a past

01:10:56that I'm looking for

01:10:57still of

01:10:58to chain

01:10:59and close

01:10:59but with a way

01:11:01final

01:11:02that there is a happy ending

01:11:03of this story

01:11:04because in the end

01:11:04I got out of it

01:11:06Federica

01:11:06it's a past story

01:11:08and Rainer

01:11:09he is another person

01:11:10but the reason

01:11:11we can say

01:11:12it was a trivial reason

01:11:13that is, there was a girl

01:11:14which had been stolen

01:11:15from another boy

01:11:16and so there was a group

01:11:18of people

01:11:19of which you were a part

01:11:20who decided

01:11:21to take revenge

01:11:22we can say so

01:11:23yes they were looking for

01:11:24a solution

01:11:25with which

01:11:26to commit a murder

01:11:27in the quietest way

01:11:28possible

01:11:29and I remembered

01:11:30the situation

01:11:31of a television series

01:11:33breaking Bad

01:11:33of the professor

01:11:34Walter White

01:11:35or Heisenberg

01:11:36with which

01:11:37there have been

01:11:37many assonances

01:11:38with my last name

01:11:39and I proposed

01:11:42ricin

01:11:42as a solution

01:11:43to their problem

01:11:44it's so true

01:11:45that you were

01:11:46nicknamed

01:11:46the chemist

01:11:48he was nicknamed

01:11:49the chemist

01:11:52Exactly

01:11:53a nickname

01:11:53but that

01:11:54should be put

01:11:55in quotation marks

01:11:56because I am not

01:11:56nor a chemist

01:11:57nor an expert

01:11:57of the sector

01:11:58but a person

01:11:59very normal

01:12:00and this

01:12:01the fact is clear

01:12:01than it is

01:12:03potentially simple

01:12:04create a substance

01:12:05of this kind

01:12:05simple though

01:12:06let's say the message

01:12:07is that you go to jail

01:12:09why this is important

01:12:10say

01:12:10Kidney

01:12:10sorry if I ask you

01:12:11but at a certain point

01:12:13those of Casa Pound

01:12:14they said

01:12:14no he's not one of us

01:12:16we have nothing to do with it

01:12:17it's like this

01:12:19that's exactly how it is

01:12:21because I

01:12:21personally

01:12:22I'm never

01:12:23been a member

01:12:24to the party

01:12:24nor militant

01:12:25I used to hang out

01:12:26of people

01:12:26close to the party

01:12:27with which

01:12:28there have been

01:12:29these intentions

01:12:29but it's a motive

01:12:31completely external

01:12:32to the political question

01:12:33let's say that though

01:12:35you were getting excited

01:12:36each other

01:12:36we can say so

01:12:37each

01:12:37for their own reasons

01:12:39everyone had

01:12:39one's own motivations

01:12:40I lived

01:12:41of ailments

01:12:41very strong

01:12:42and personal

01:12:43the others instead

01:12:44they had

01:12:44who a reason

01:12:45towards

01:12:46of this boy

01:12:47and who instead

01:12:47for the question

01:12:48of the girl

01:12:49subtracted

01:12:50but Federica

01:12:51it's just

01:12:52to an event

01:12:53at a party

01:12:54by Casa Pound

01:12:55what happens

01:12:55the first attempt

01:12:57of friendship

01:12:57that is, the first

01:12:58administration

01:12:59of this substance

01:13:00that Rainer

01:13:01had summarized

01:13:02in an artisanal way

01:13:04in a glass

01:13:05let's say

01:13:06of vodka

01:13:06is that right?

01:13:08and what happens?

01:13:08it happens that the substance

01:13:10she wasn't ready yet

01:13:11as he did not have

01:13:12of the equipment

01:13:13necessary

01:13:14to carry out

01:13:14a complete work

01:13:15and that evening

01:13:16there was

01:13:17a sort of

01:13:18experiment

01:13:19a first test

01:13:20a beta tester

01:13:21that he didn't know

01:13:22to be

01:13:22and he tried

01:13:23the substance

01:13:24within

01:13:24of an alcoholic

01:13:25which

01:13:26did not allow

01:13:27the dilution

01:13:27of what it was

01:13:29this prototype

01:13:30of ricin

01:13:31and it didn't work

01:13:32that is, it went down

01:13:33ricin

01:13:34but then if it wasn't

01:13:34is about to stop

01:13:36yes it didn't melt

01:13:37in the vault

01:13:38and so it remained

01:13:39at the bottom of the glass

01:13:40but then sorry

01:13:41the intended victim

01:13:42he had gastroenteritis

01:13:44for three days

01:13:45but she's not dead

01:13:46luckily he died

01:13:47but the problem

01:13:48that is Rainer

01:13:49you tell it

01:13:50with

01:13:50why were you in prison

01:13:51you said

01:13:52the prison

01:13:52it changed me

01:13:53I am a better man

01:13:54but look

01:13:55it's an absurd story

01:13:55because then you tried

01:13:57also to use

01:13:58an 11-year-old boy

01:13:59that had to go

01:14:00to spray

01:14:01with the water gun

01:14:01ricin

01:14:02to this

01:14:03No

01:14:03to this rival in love

01:14:05of one of your group

01:14:08Exactly

01:14:09these are the things

01:14:10which are immersed

01:14:10from the documents

01:14:11once

01:14:12that I discovered

01:14:12to be arrested

01:14:13because my task

01:14:14was to deliver

01:14:15the vial

01:14:16containing ricin

01:14:17to these guys

01:14:18which then

01:14:19they would have done it

01:14:19their use

01:14:20in the ways

01:14:21which they preferred

01:14:22I was an outsider

01:14:24to their procedure

01:14:25of murder

01:14:25but I was still an accomplice

01:14:27knowing that it would be

01:14:28gone to end

01:14:29to accomplish this

01:14:30this crime

01:14:31but the problem

01:14:32is that by putting it

01:14:33in the water gun

01:14:34in theory

01:14:35it could be sprayed

01:14:36on other people

01:14:37so it could be

01:14:38potentially

01:14:39a massacre

01:14:41also because

01:14:41Rainer

01:14:42you had summarized

01:14:43a very high dose

01:14:45of poison

01:14:45then yes

01:14:46actually

01:14:47the doses

01:14:48which have been

01:14:48found

01:14:49within

01:14:50of my vials

01:14:50they correspond

01:14:51more or less

01:14:52to a hundred

01:14:53in case

01:14:54were injected

01:14:55by ingestion

01:14:56or inhalation

01:14:57anyway it's about

01:14:57of a handful

01:14:58of doses

01:14:59there is something to do

01:14:59a clarification

01:15:00obligatory

01:15:01very important

01:15:02the water pistol

01:15:03it would not have contained

01:15:04waterfall

01:15:04but a solvent

01:15:05That

01:15:06I reported

01:15:07to the boys

01:15:08would have

01:15:08demolished

01:15:09literally

01:15:10the molecule

01:15:11of ricin

01:15:12and he wouldn't have

01:15:12it could never work

01:15:14because it was a solvent

01:15:15used for creams

01:15:16of the horses

01:15:17so one thing

01:15:17totally external

01:15:18to the water

01:15:20that has nothing to do with it

01:15:21it wouldn't even be

01:15:22never penetrated

01:15:22through the skin

01:15:23but lawyer

01:15:24Luca Maria Trappan

01:15:25Certain

01:15:26I imagine

01:15:27when she heard

01:15:28of Pietra Catella

01:15:29he said

01:15:29oh god ricin

01:15:31No?

01:15:32that is, it was the case

01:15:32maybe the case

01:15:33single judiciary

01:15:34in Italy

01:15:35your lawyer?

01:15:38I really think so

01:15:39I was hoping

01:15:40remained as such

01:15:41Unfortunately

01:15:41listen again

01:15:42precisely

01:15:43This

01:15:44modus operandi

01:15:46after eight years

01:15:47Certain

01:15:47right

01:15:48worry

01:15:49what however

01:15:50I wanted

01:15:50just to point out

01:15:52is that

01:15:52In short

01:15:53it's a weapon

01:15:55chemistry

01:15:55Therefore

01:15:56the intervention

01:15:57that today

01:15:58Rainer is here

01:15:59In short

01:15:59to do

01:16:01it is not

01:16:01clearly

01:16:02an invitation

01:16:03to the mule

01:16:03nor even less

01:16:05in quotation marks

01:16:05an indication

01:16:06to commit crimes

01:16:06but it's to say

01:16:07be careful

01:16:08Why

01:16:09being a chemical weapon

01:16:10even just

01:16:10produce it

01:16:11or keep it

01:16:13at home

01:16:13I'll give you an example

01:16:14it's a crime

01:16:15who has a penalty

01:16:16ranging from 4 to 12 years

01:16:18and the second reason

01:16:19is that the same

01:16:19processing

01:16:20if done

01:16:20from a person

01:16:22even just

01:16:22unprepared

01:16:23may involve

01:16:24death

01:16:24because precisely

01:16:25inhalation

01:16:25It is one of the channels

01:16:26more lethal

01:16:27for this substance

01:16:28look lawyer

01:16:28we thank you

01:16:29for this message

01:16:30because it was just

01:16:31what we wanted to say

01:16:32with his client

01:16:33with Rainer

01:16:34In short

01:16:34don't put yourselves there

01:16:36to make ricin

01:16:37at home

01:16:37why are you going

01:16:38in jail

01:16:38and the years

01:16:39there are many

01:16:41and then

01:16:41Francis Paul

01:16:42it hit us

01:16:43that Rainer

01:16:43he said

01:16:44I have been

01:16:44in prison

01:16:45the prison

01:16:45somehow

01:16:46it helped me

01:16:47to become better

01:16:48is that so?

01:16:51Exactly

01:16:52the prison

01:16:53good or bad

01:16:53it's a reality

01:16:54that on paper

01:16:55should be

01:16:56re-educational

01:16:57and not punitive

01:16:58it's true that it gives you

01:16:59the opportunity

01:17:00but the person

01:17:01single decides

01:17:02what use to make of it

01:17:03of his own imprisonment

01:17:04I had

01:17:04the occasion

01:17:05to study

01:17:05to work

01:17:06also hired

01:17:07from the minister

01:17:07of justice

01:17:08I have done

01:17:08of the tasks

01:17:09very beautiful

01:17:10I met

01:17:10of people

01:17:11very important

01:17:12and even criminals

01:17:13what they did

01:17:13of their life

01:17:15a complete disaster

01:17:16but there are

01:17:17fathers of families

01:17:18people who maybe

01:17:18I'm inside

01:17:19for crimes

01:17:20maybe administrative

01:17:21of the things that

01:17:22they are not people

01:17:23Truly

01:17:24bad or dangerous

01:17:25but that anyway

01:17:26they had

01:17:27the occasion

01:17:27to redeem himself

01:17:28and that's exactly it

01:17:29the final ending

01:17:31of the prison

01:17:32for as one

01:17:32he experiences it on a personal level

01:17:33a redemption

01:17:35that can bring you

01:17:36then to go out

01:17:37from all sorts of turns

01:17:38that brought you

01:17:39to enter

01:17:39then I thank you

01:17:41I really thank you

01:17:42this is exactly

01:17:43the symbol

01:17:44Federica

01:17:44of repentance

01:17:46by Reiner

01:17:47he says

01:17:47I keep them here

01:17:48the bowl itself

01:17:49where I have summarized

01:17:50ricin

01:17:51so I don't forget

01:17:52that I did wrong

01:17:53and I don't do it anymore

01:17:54and this is important

01:17:55the message is important

01:17:57that must be given

01:17:59then I thank

01:18:00Rainer

01:18:00and the lawyer

01:18:01Luca Maria Trapani

01:18:02Why

01:18:03of ricin then we go

01:18:05in prison

01:18:06this is a certainty

01:18:07I thank our

01:18:08Francis Paul of the King

01:18:09and I have to say

01:18:11but the Italians

01:18:12now they take advantage

01:18:13of the experience

01:18:14of the experience

01:18:15of the Germans

01:18:16they come to us from Berlin

01:18:17to help

01:18:18in the analyses

01:18:19We see

01:18:22we will arrive at a truth

01:18:23I hope this

01:18:24let it happen

01:18:25as soon as possible

01:18:26and to get there

01:18:28to the truth

01:18:28the Larino prosecutor's office

01:18:29also makes use of

01:18:30by German specialists

01:18:32to the top experts

01:18:33Italians like Carlo Locatelli

01:18:35they are now coming together

01:18:36scientists

01:18:37who will come from Berlin

01:18:38ricin

01:18:39he doesn't have

01:18:39possible treatment

01:18:41and that they have

01:18:41a great experience

01:18:43in bioterrorism

01:18:44having been busy

01:18:45of sensational cases

01:18:46like the attack

01:18:47foiled in Cologne

01:18:48in 2018

01:18:49when a man

01:18:50close to ideas

01:18:51of ISIS

01:18:52he was preparing

01:18:53a rudimentary bio-bomb

01:18:55with more than

01:18:553000 castor beans

01:18:57but they took care of it

01:18:59even of war

01:18:59bacteriological

01:19:00and other toxins

01:19:01like anthrax

01:19:02and poisoning

01:19:03of Russian dissidents

01:19:05Navalny and Litvinenko

01:19:12there are 19

01:19:13the finds

01:19:14seized

01:19:15immediately after

01:19:16the death of mother and daughter

01:19:17among these

01:19:18a preparation

01:19:19with mushrooms and peppers

01:19:20green olives

01:19:21and black olives

01:19:22pieces of cheese

01:19:23with pistachio

01:19:24tomato sauce

01:19:25pleurotus mushrooms

01:19:26from the first floor

01:19:27where is it

01:19:28Grandma's house

01:19:29but he lives

01:19:30in a nursing home

01:19:31they are taken

01:19:32a pot of clams

01:19:33salted cod

01:19:34gratin with pine nuts

01:19:35grapes and potatoes

01:19:36and a portion

01:19:37of the famous cake

01:19:38prepared by the aunt

01:19:39which has been much talked about

01:19:41with sponge cake

01:19:42soaked

01:19:42filled with yellow cream

01:19:44and amaretti

01:19:44In short

01:19:45the leftovers

01:19:46of the dinner

01:19:46on the eve

01:19:47and Christmas lunch

01:19:48and again

01:19:49pesto without garlic

01:19:50spreadable cheese

01:19:52black cherry jam

01:19:53solid polenta

01:19:54sliced

01:19:55other mushrooms

01:19:56and the gardener

01:19:57homemade

01:19:57eaten by Gianni

01:19:59Antonella

01:19:59and Sara

01:20:00December 23rd

01:20:01when Alice

01:20:02the eldest daughter

01:20:03he was out with friends

01:20:04that evening of the 23rd

01:20:05they eat the same things

01:20:07for what she knows

01:20:08as far as I know

01:20:09absolutely yes

01:20:10there were some sausages

01:20:11and there was a gardener

01:20:1250 other foods

01:20:14they are seized

01:20:16in the refrigerator

01:20:16and in the freezer

01:20:17ragù

01:20:18rose beef

01:20:18precooked legumes

01:20:20vegetable preparation

01:20:21fish

01:20:22cold cuts and cheese

01:20:23egg

01:20:24meat

01:20:24chicken

01:20:25other molluscs

01:20:26soufflés

01:20:26minestrone

01:20:27fresh pasta

01:20:28milk

01:20:29fruit juice

01:20:30honey

01:20:30capers

01:20:31aromatic herbs

01:20:32bread

01:20:32stock cubes

01:20:33is seized

01:20:35even water

01:20:36in a bottle

01:20:37where is it located

01:20:38ricin

01:20:39and who was to be hit

01:20:41we can hypothesize

01:20:43that eventually

01:20:43the goal

01:20:44they were not

01:20:45mother and daughter

01:20:45but it was someone else

01:20:46of the family

01:20:47how can it be excluded

01:20:48nothing can be ruled out

01:20:49the system

01:20:50the modalities

01:20:51even of poisoning

01:20:53I'm never

01:20:54easily manageable

01:20:56could be

01:20:57that can strike

01:20:59subjects

01:21:01that he could not imagine

01:21:02of having to strike

01:21:02caution is required

01:21:05and the investigators

01:21:06they weigh every paper

01:21:08every move

01:21:08what it seems

01:21:10a poison

01:21:10so sophisticated

01:21:12and exotic

01:21:12ricin

01:21:13could have

01:21:14a very simple origin

01:21:15the poison

01:21:16of the spies

01:21:17and chemical warfare

01:21:18it is a substance

01:21:19present in botany

01:21:20but in Pietracatella

01:21:22come on in the surroundings

01:21:23the castor oil plant

01:21:23exists?

01:21:24it's a plant

01:21:25what is there I find

01:21:26but

01:21:27I've never seen it

01:21:29it is true that it was used

01:21:31for moles

01:21:31for rodents

01:21:33that's a job there

01:21:34and how did it work?

01:21:36that is, you had to use

01:21:36is that I know

01:21:37how does it work

01:21:38I tell myself certain things

01:21:39the protein

01:21:41it is extracted

01:21:42from a plant

01:21:42a common time

01:21:43around here

01:21:44used in the fields

01:21:45to keep moles

01:21:46far away

01:21:47from the crops

01:21:48an ancient knowledge

01:21:49what he put

01:21:50the castor oil plant

01:21:51guarding the garden

01:21:52it wasn't put on before

01:21:53near the garden

01:21:54to make the Tapanati run away

01:21:55Why?

01:21:56the data is many years old

01:21:57and I don't remember

01:21:58but me too

01:21:58he told me

01:21:59a little more

01:22:00because it's not true

01:22:01this thing

01:22:01of the moles

01:22:03in my opinion no

01:22:04but they say

01:22:05or I was saying

01:22:06I have never seen it

01:22:06I've never seen it

01:22:07my mom

01:22:08my father

01:22:09you've never seen it

01:22:10I this plant

01:22:11I've never seen it

01:22:13by force

01:22:13I have never seen it

01:22:16I have never seen it

01:22:17I have never seen it

01:22:18I had no others

01:22:19aestheticicides

01:22:20to fight

01:22:21certain things

01:22:21they used this plant

01:22:23me personally

01:22:24this plant

01:22:25I don't know her

01:22:25I have never seen it

01:22:27for television

01:22:28and that's it

01:22:29I am convinced

01:22:30that this lady

01:22:32I'm not dead

01:22:34not even

01:22:34of this plant

01:22:37and the judiciary

01:22:39he takes his time

01:22:43personally

01:22:43It seems strange to me

01:22:47Unfortunately

01:22:48there are two

01:22:49they died

01:22:51for the love of God

01:22:51the young people

01:22:52the young people

01:22:53in the village they say

01:22:55who knows you

01:22:56it opens for you

01:22:57the widespread thought

01:22:59with the cameras off

01:23:00is that evil

01:23:01maybe he won't come

01:23:02from too far away

01:23:05who chooses

01:23:06a low profile

01:23:07under the weight

01:23:08of a dismay

01:23:08too big

01:23:09I am really

01:23:10the people

01:23:11closer

01:23:11to the victims

01:23:13a few words

01:23:14Giuseppina tells us

01:23:15Antonella's aunt

01:23:17that relies on

01:23:18at work

01:23:18of the investigators

01:23:19hoping they arrive

01:23:20the answers

01:23:21that for almost six months

01:23:22they take away her sleep

01:23:23I've already said enough

01:23:25and there's nothing to say

01:23:27more

01:23:27but they just have to work

01:23:28the law

01:23:29and that's all

01:23:30but she to her niece

01:23:32he loved

01:23:32but of course

01:23:33she was my brother's daughter

01:23:35he was short

01:23:37but there's nothing else to say

01:23:38this news

01:23:39I imagine he has

01:23:41upset

01:23:42the world

01:23:43he was short for us

01:23:44we are

01:23:45so you can

01:23:47stop things

01:23:48Why

01:23:48it's no use

01:23:51Unfortunately

01:23:51Well

01:23:52you can't take it anymore

01:23:53to do

01:23:54the harm has been done

01:23:56but the law

01:23:58must see

01:23:58which prevents

01:23:59this thing

01:24:00because it's not normal

01:24:01Therefore

01:24:03she had an accident

01:24:04he doesn't think about it

01:24:05I imagine

01:24:06No?

01:24:07but let's imagine

01:24:08many things

01:24:09but

01:24:10it's worth nothing

01:24:12if there is no reality

01:24:13Certain

01:24:15Certain

01:24:15but

01:24:17let's hope it gets there

01:24:18to know the truth

01:24:19justice

01:24:20that's what we hope

01:24:22that there is

01:24:23it goes to nothing

01:24:27go

2026.06.24 - Chi l'ha visto _ Puntata intera - 1a Parte

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