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00:00:00This week I have the difficult responsibility of doing the show with Joel Sherman and John
00:00:05Heyman. Without John Heyman, John's on vacation this week. I hope John's having a great time.
00:00:10No one works harder in the business than John, but I'm getting a true relief pitcher to help me out
00:00:17in our lead segment and at the end at Hit and Error. That's Adam Adovino. I'll also be joined
00:00:22by the Brewers manager, Pat Murphy, Brewers best record in the NL Central, best record in the
00:00:28major leagues. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about the Cubs coming. We'll talk about the Miz.
00:00:32We'll talk about a lot more if you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John Heyman.
00:00:42Well, no John Heyman this week, but Adam Adovino, who was certainly kind and a friend of the
00:00:49reporters all the time when in his 15 years as a major league player for a variety of teams,
00:00:54including both New York teams, the Mets and Yankees, feared in 727 games and he's easy to
00:00:59find now. Peacock doing games, yes, pre and post game show. Every once in a while, him and I will
00:01:05be together on a set at MLB Network. Adam, thank you so much for being our relief pitcher this week
00:01:11and coming in and feeling good for John. Of course. Thank you so much for having me.
00:01:16You know, Adam, I wish I didn't have to start here, but it feels like I have to start with
00:01:21the issue that came up in the Yankee game, Red Sox game on Sunday, the finale. Adam, I think you
00:01:28know me well. I'm not afraid to like ask a tough question or three and whatever. I never even thought
00:01:34to ask about this after the game. I thought it was just obvious. It's seven to one. I know the
00:01:40Yankee situation that they don't even, they have no other relief pitcher in the bullpen available to
00:01:44them except for David Bednar. They don't even want to warm him up, much less get him in the game.
00:01:49And so they're going to keep trying to score. It didn't seem like an issue to me. And it wasn't
00:01:54until I woke up yesterday morning, Monday morning, and I saw that the Twitter world had exploded with
00:01:58what Will Fleming especially had said in the WDEI broadcast booth made a big deal out of it.
00:02:04To me, Adam, I've always been like, I'm in charge of my team. I'm going to always keep trying to
00:02:09score
00:02:09because the game is serial. I have to play another game tomorrow and any pitches I throw,
00:02:14pitches I use affect it. It's your job to stop me from scoring. Don't tell me to
00:02:19stop trying to score. I wonder where you fall on this.
00:02:22Yeah, I think that's the key consideration that there are more games to be played. So,
00:02:26I mean, there was much more at stake than just the one game. They are able to keep Bednar on
00:02:30the shelf by continuing to grow the lead. Six runs is not unheard of. We've seen six run innings
00:02:36regularly. To me, that wasn't the moment to take the foot off the gas just to, you know,
00:02:42save your opponent some embarrassment. At that point, you're trying to, you know, build a bigger
00:02:47lead and drive home the point and make sure you're set up for the next game and the next
00:02:51game and so on and so forth. So I never had any problem with it. I like you. I watched
00:02:54the game.
00:02:55I honestly didn't think much of it. I was watching the Yes broadcast. So I wasn't, you know, listening
00:02:59to any Red Sox media on it. And then next thing you know, you wake up the next day and
00:03:05you see
00:03:06some of the online controversy. So I'm with you. I think it's a little silly. And, you know, perhaps
00:03:11it just speaks to a little bit of the passion that's involved on both sides of this rivalry
00:03:15and the feelings that sometimes get invoked.
00:03:19Adam, you know, we have to reach all the way back to last week. The Giants were beating the
00:03:23Reds nine to three in the ninth inning and the Reds scored seven runs and one from a six run
00:03:29deficit.
00:03:30So I know it could be done. And again, I'm not in charge of your team. I'm in charge of
00:03:33my team
00:03:34and I know what its needs are. I just wonder, again, as a thoughtful person who played in the
00:03:40majors, was there stuff that offended you on the field? Could could another team, you know, the way
00:03:47they they they handled running around the bases on a homer or stealing at a certain runs like what
00:03:54what offended Adam Adovino, if anything? Well, well, I think I was a little less offended than most
00:04:00guys. To be fair, I think just my personality, you know, like you want to focus on your own team.
00:04:05I wanted to focus on my own on my own stats, on my own, you know, success and failures. And
00:04:11I
00:04:11really didn't want to muddy the waters too much. You know, it was one of my goals was to never
00:04:15inflame the other side. And I understood that sometimes, you know, feelings are going to get
00:04:20hurt. Things are going to happen because it's an emotional game, but not too much would piss me off.
00:04:24I mean, occasionally when we were younger, a team would throw inside a lot on our star players and
00:04:30it would be that sort of thing where it's like, OK, at some point we need to get a pound
00:04:34of flesh
00:04:34here, I guess. But I was honestly kind of insulated from it because I always pitched mostly in
00:04:39leverage. So I was never really asked to do any of that. So it's easy for me to speak on
00:04:44it without
00:04:44having to actually do any of it. But yeah, I mean, look, in the old days, I mean, they're not
00:04:48even that
00:04:49old days. You know, we've been watching baseball a lot longer than I played it. But, you know, when I
00:04:53first
00:04:54got to the big leagues, of course, this was spoken about all the time. You'd see managers go off the
00:04:58handle and spring training about the other team doing things they didn't like. And I don't know,
00:05:03to me, it just always seemed that I better stay in my lane and continue to do my job and
00:05:07not get
00:05:07too distracted by something that ultimately wasn't going to help me remain in the league. You know,
00:05:12just I need to get outs. Adam, I'm going to give you a pun intended here, a little New York
00:05:17post
00:05:17inside baseball. I write a long column Monday that gets posted early Tuesday morning. And Sunday night,
00:05:23I started to write a column, a lead on it about how much the Yankees remind me of the Knicks.
00:05:30And fortunately, in some ways, this Jazz Chisholm Boston Red Sox thing happened. So I switched
00:05:34to that, unknowing that Mike Vaccaro, our general columnist, was writing the same exact column.
00:05:40And we would have had clashing columns, and then we would have had to decide what to get in the
00:05:44paper.
00:05:45But let me see if I can make a case. And what do you think about it? Is it feels
00:05:48like the Knick
00:05:49regular season last year was the most unsatisfying successful season? You know,
00:05:55they won a bunch of games. They finished third in the conference. Everyone sensed they were the
00:06:00best team in the conference. Everyone assumed the other conference was going to have the champion
00:06:04because they had the best teams. And it was always a question of, will they get their act together?
00:06:10And I kind of feel like that with the Yankees. They're going to finish with the second or third
00:06:14best record in the conference, in their league, like the Knicks did with the conference. It's
00:06:18kind of like an unsatisfying successful year. They've had the second best record in the American
00:06:21League pretty much the entire year. And all we think about is, God, they stink. And it does still
00:06:27feel like if they could get their healthy judge and, you know, maybe Clark Schmidt, that kind of
00:06:32group, maybe Ryan Weathers back, but especially judge, that they're still the best team in the
00:06:36American League. And they could run through this if they kind of get on a run like the Knicks did.
00:06:41And then do they beat the better conference, better league, where I think the four or five
00:06:46best teams are right now? I don't know. Like, any thoughts on what I'm saying here? Because I know
00:06:51you're an observer of all 30, but you are in New York. You see the Yankees a lot with the
00:06:55yes stuff.
00:06:56Yeah, Joel, I agree. I mean, look, it is similar in that if you can see the pieces potentially coming
00:07:03together at the right moment. I mean, obviously, the judge piece is the biggest one. But that's the
00:07:07beauty of the American League this year. I mean, it's the ugly beauty of it. I mean,
00:07:11everybody's got a shot. And theoretically, it should be a relatively easier path to the World
00:07:17Series. And once you get there, you know, matchups, you know, will determine that matchup,
00:07:22you know, like how the team stylistically go at it and where they're at at that moment in time.
00:07:26So I'm with you. You know, for me, this Yankees starting pitching is as good as we've ever seen it
00:07:31right now. It's incredibly deep. So that's the exciting part. And the bullpen has performed well,
00:07:36albeit a little bit overworked, a couple guys. But the thought is that some of these guys are
00:07:42going to impact the bullpen later, you know, potentially Weathers, maybe Clark Schmidt,
00:07:46maybe Will Warren. We'll see. So yeah, they should have enough arms to then collectively add
00:07:51to the nastiness and the trust circle for Aaron Boone there in the playoffs. And then yeah,
00:07:56you do think they're the most complete team in the American League at that point. Judge plus that.
00:08:00Now, that's a lot of ifs. I get it. But I do see the train of thought that got you
00:08:04to that same
00:08:04conclusion. The Knicks had a lot of ifs as well. You know, will Carl Anthony Towns start playing a
00:08:09little bit different? All of a sudden he does. You know, they get they get everybody collectively
00:08:13together and they go on that magical run. So yeah, I mean, that's the hope if you're a Yankees fan.
00:08:19Certainly in Yankee recent Yankee history, it's never gotten easier when you get to the playoffs.
00:08:24But you can see how maybe this year there is maybe a little bit more of a direct path to
00:08:28that
00:08:28World Series matchup. You know, Adam, when I watched him play, I kind of feel like one of
00:08:35their bugger boos is the one that got him in 2024 also, which is they're just not a clean team.
00:08:41Like the ball gets thrown around a lot. It like it's strange what goes on. And I asked a couple
00:08:48of their people on Sunday and I wonder what you think about this. I was like, I think if I
00:08:52manage
00:08:52the team, thankfully for all Yankee fans, I don't. But if I manage the team, I think I would
00:08:57think defense first and like leave the other guys on the bench for pinch hitting spots if needed to
00:09:05try to come back in a game. So that would mean like I get it. Ryan McMahon really can't hit
00:09:09lefties,
00:09:10but I'm playing Ryan McMahon at third base. I'm playing Goldschmidt and Garcia at first base.
00:09:15I'm not putting Elio Ramos in the field once Judge comes back, you know. And by the way,
00:09:21I think I'd put Spencer Jones in center field and put Grisham on the bench and just try to play
00:09:27my best defensive team. And if suddenly there's a pinch hit where I need a lefty batter, I got
00:09:31Grisham. If there's a pinch hit and I need a righty batter, I got Ramos. I would just play defense
00:09:39and decide in the sixth inning, what do I need for the game? Yeah, this is why I love the
00:09:43McMahon
00:09:44trade last year because they were so sloppy in the infield, especially on that left side that you
00:09:48needed him to help clean that up. I understand some of the hitting limitations there, but like him in
00:09:53particular, you get him next to Lombard, it looks a lot better over there. And then I agree, you know,
00:09:59Grisham, you know, for as smooth as he is out there, he's not covering the ground or getting
00:10:03enough on the throws as he once did. Spencer Jones does seem like a little bit more of an impact
00:10:09option because, you know, with the young legs and the tool set that he's got, getting Bellinger back.
00:10:14I think I might also get more offense at this point out of Jones. Now in the postseason,
00:10:18as you know, all the bad pitching goes away and the scouting reports get crisper and maybe
00:10:24they'll take advantage of Jones, but they'll take advantage of Grisham too. I think I'm getting a
00:10:29better overall player if I just play Jones in center field. Yeah, it's hard to disagree right
00:10:34now because of like Grisham's there for his on-base percentage, but it's not there this year. It's
00:10:38empty. It's not where it has been. That's why he's, you know, you continue to bat him at lead off
00:10:41because of the underlying swing decisions, you know, the metrics that they see, the chase rate,
00:10:46that sort of thing, but it hasn't really translated into creating rallies. Like the Yankees had a
00:10:50crazy drought where they couldn't score in the first inning. Obviously, you know, you go look
00:10:54around the big leagues, some of the most electric offensive teams have a great lead off hitter,
00:10:59you know, Pete Crow Armstrong, obviously Shohei Otani, Acuna when he's going well, George Springer
00:11:04last year, like there's a ton of examples of this throughout the league and it really plays into
00:11:08the postseason as well. If you can be a threat from pitch one of the game, Yankees don't have that
00:11:13dynamic right now. So yeah, because of that, I get you can wait a long time trying to wait for
00:11:19the underlying metrics to come into the results category for Trent Grisham, but I think right now
00:11:23looking at it, bigger impact on both sides of the ball. I'm with you. I think it's Spencer Jones
00:11:28and to your point earlier, like the Yankees have the personnel to play good defense right now.
00:11:32So why not, you know, unleash that and see what it is. They have been playing a lot of these
00:11:36close
00:11:36games. They're not putting a big run totals consistently anyway. So what's going to pay more
00:11:41dividends? Probably clean defense. Yeah. And, and again, I could decide in the sixth inning,
00:11:46I'm winning. I'm keeping my defense in. I'm losing. I'll suffer some defense to try to get
00:11:51the runs then, but I'm going to lean into the fact that my pitching, especially my starting pitching
00:11:55has been really good and assist them by making sure all the outs are outs. You know, you said
00:12:01something interesting before, Adam, that I wanted to get back to. There's two things on it. Let me hit you
00:12:06with the first one. Uh, Hedrick and Blackburn are, have been particularly used a lot. You are a heavily
00:12:13used reliever in your best healthy seasons. If I think Hedrick is showing a little that maybe he's
00:12:22kind of like dripping some oil here. If can you get it back in the same season? Like if you
00:12:28hit a point
00:12:28of exhaustion, if the Yankees back off of him properly over the next few weeks, will he regenerate
00:12:35or man, when you hit a wall in a season, you've hit the wall. It's a great question. And I've
00:12:40seen
00:12:40it go both ways to be fair. My, my individual experience was it was hard to recover it once I,
00:12:46and you don't know when necessarily when it's coming, like you feel good through 60, 65 appearances.
00:12:51I mean, Hedrick's already at 70, um, which is a little bit frightening considering his previous
00:12:56workloads. And you got to think all the games that he warmed up and, or at least threatened to warm
00:12:59up and didn't totally come in. Um, the big thing in the bullpen is that there's an October coming.
00:13:04It's not just through September 30, right? Like you're hoping to play through the month,
00:13:08right? You look at like 2019, where we basically were bullpenning the season with the Yankees,
00:13:13right? We had a couple of starters we trusted, but not really third time through the order.
00:13:16We had this super bullpen, uh, myself, uh, Zach Britton and Chad green and Tommy Canely. We all threw a
00:13:22lot
00:13:23that season. Chapman was there as well. Um, when it came playoffs, I think I pitched in every game
00:13:28and I just wasn't as good anymore. And it was, it was a combination of like mental exhaustion,
00:13:34but usually that kind of goes away because you get the second wind of the post-season adrenaline,
00:13:38but your stuff's just not quite as sharp. And now you're getting more exposed as the series goes on
00:13:44versus these teams. And I do worry about that with Hedrick in particular. And now like Blackburn,
00:13:49he's been so good that he really hasn't been tested much lately. Um, you know, because he's
00:13:55like got such this, this pitch mix and he can pitch multiple styles, uh, out there, but like
00:13:59Hedrick, I'm a little concerned because he's trying to come right at you with the fastball split and
00:14:04the slider. And that's what he's been doing all year, but now his stuff has ticked down just a hair.
00:14:09And I wonder whether they can recover that. And because at the same time, you're also chasing a
00:14:15division. That's effectively, if you can win the division, that's effectively a series win.
00:14:19So it's sort of is playoffs. So you don't want to save them. It's a lot to negotiate here. If
00:14:23he
00:14:23throws 12 more games, he's thrown more than half the games in the season. And anyway, you look at
00:14:27that, that's kind of helter skelter. Yeah, it's a lot. Uh, but he is part of something. I think
00:14:33we would both agree the Yankees do well. They improve pitching in general and relief pitching
00:14:39in specific. I mean, Hedrick is a failed starter. Uh, Blackburn had some moments, but is basically now
00:14:45a failed starter. Uh, Luke Weaver was a failed starter. Clay Holmes was a failed starter. Uh,
00:14:51both of those guys have made real money. Now, Clay Holmes and Luke Weaver, uh, after going through
00:14:55the Yankee factory, uh, I wonder if I can ask you to a question is one, what do they do
00:15:02well to kind of
00:15:04do that? Cause I'm sure they're going to try to clean up like very quickly, John Schreiber and Michael
00:15:08Fulmer to see if they can make something of the best of their stuff. Uh, and number two,
00:15:14like, is the word out? If I'm a relief pitcher debating between teams, A, B and C, and the
00:15:19Yankees are one of those three teams, would I go there thinking, you know what, I'll make some more
00:15:24money in the longterm. Cause they're going to, I know they can help me. I think, I think they do,
00:15:30they do a couple of things well. Um, but they're not like mutually exclusive. Like you look at, um,
00:15:35um, Blackburn in the time that he's come to the Yankees, he's added about two miles an hour. So
00:15:40I know it's a change in role as part of, but the foresight to like, see a guy who has
00:15:44real
00:15:44pitch ability and trust that he's going to fill a role for them, you know, like the way they do
00:15:48with Yarbrough as well. Like other teams are probably their models are like, stay away from
00:15:52a guy like Ryan Yarbrough. Yankees tend to like to trust guys with pitch ability and then see what
00:15:57they can add to them. In Blackburn's case, it's velocity. They do a nice job with that. They have
00:16:01velocity development programs with the Yankees, but then also like they're really good
00:16:05with seam orientation and it shows up. And that means like how the guy's holding the ball,
00:16:10like making slight grip adjustments. And that shows up in not just the relievers. It shows up
00:16:15in some of the starters too. Like Rodon and Freed have excellent sinkers. Now those pitches didn't
00:16:19really exist prior to Yankees. Um, and then you look at, you know, like a guy like Schreiber who has,
00:16:25who they just claimed, and he's got like the interesting arm angle. They're going to work with
00:16:30the way he's holding the ball and they're going to be able to optimize what he's doing.
00:16:34So they have a couple of different, you know, magic abilities. I feel like one is to add velocity to
00:16:40a
00:16:40guy that they already trust and they're willing to look past just stuff models, stuff model numbers.
00:16:46Like there have other ways of evaluating pitcher success. And then I think they also have ways to
00:16:51tweak pitches and add pitches to an arsenal that, you know, can really, you know, help a guy become
00:16:55better against, you know, maybe, uh, like deal with the platoon split and that sort of thing,
00:17:00or like figure out how to improve a little bit on the weakness in their game. And, you know,
00:17:05ultimately I also think it's the way that they manage the bullpen as well. Like guys who are
00:17:09multi-inning guys, if they pitch well, they're not afraid to elevate them into bigger roles.
00:17:14We saw it with Weaver. We're seeing it with Blackburn. Now so many teams are gun shy to do that.
00:17:18The Yankees aren't the Yankees pay attention in the moment. And I think they reap the benefits of that
00:17:23quite well. Yeah. You know, I was in spring training, uh, this year in Tampa and I Schlitler
00:17:28was pitching one day and I went, Oh, so I guess he's got a great cutter now. Like it just
00:17:33came
00:17:33out of noise. And it's like, like when that pitch is on, like good luck, that pitch in particular,
00:17:37when it's on good luck to everybody else. And I was like, I was in spring training. I was like,
00:17:42where the hell did that come from? So it's, it, yeah, it really stood out to me.
00:17:46Schlitler's like the ultimate example of just player development. Obviously it's a little bit on a
00:17:50different level, but like a guy who can throw strikes, but they see a potential in like a
00:17:54projectability sense of his frame. Right. And then like, you take that innate ability to like
00:17:59control that body and you find a way to make him throw a lot harder. And then you realize that
00:18:04this
00:18:04is the type of guy that can, you know, make consistent adjustments. So you just keep giving
00:18:09him one adjustment after another and he picks it up like nothing. I mean, it's special on both ends,
00:18:13but a match made in heaven there for sure. Yeah. He's another guy that you got to think about
00:18:16backing off a little down the stretch. If they're thinking there's going to be five posts,
00:18:20season starts. I agree with you. They're there. They're in this tricky middle ground of you want
00:18:25to make sure Boston stays behind you just in case it's the wild card. You don't want to give up
00:18:29on
00:18:29Tampa, especially with four late, but they are in an interesting middle ground. Look, you talked about
00:18:34what a good job they do with the pitching. I do want to ask you about two people and that's
00:18:38Brian
00:18:39Cashman and Aaron Boone. Cause we know how this goes. It's 162 one game seasons around here. And it
00:18:45doesn't take a lot of internet sleuthing to see every time they lose a game, those two guys are
00:18:50fired. Certainly if they fail in the post season, again, they're going to be fired. And I think that
00:18:55there's real myopia for it. Like, uh, like how, like the blue Jays got within one inch of winning
00:19:02the world series last year. They can't get over 500 this year. The Mets spend $350 million. They
00:19:08can't win the last two years. Like it's hard to be as consistently excellent as the Yankees. And I
00:19:14don't think there's like a general manager store on Broadway where you could just automatically get
00:19:18someone better, a manager store on Lex that you could get someone like I'm all for it. I tell
00:19:23people all the time. Yep. Let's fire them. Who's replacing them. That's going to bring this level
00:19:27of consistent excellence that gives you a shot to win every year. And you feel like has some magic
00:19:32pill in October that will be like, aha, this is what Brian Cashman didn't have. He added this guy,
00:19:38or they do this thing in the game. I wonder, can you, let's start with Cashman. What, what do you
00:19:43think
00:19:43about him? And by the way, please feel free to disagree with me and say they should do much.
00:19:48These are the New York Yankees. They should do much better than this.
00:19:51Well, I, I think that, I think that there's been some close calls over the past decade of teams that
00:20:00they built that were really close to championship caliber, maybe lacking in one aspect when push came
00:20:06to shove. Um, but like, I mean, in the aggregate, it's hard not to be impressed by cash. I mean,
00:20:13the amount of winning seasons, the amount of setbacks the team has encountered, I mean,
00:20:18every team encounters them, but the Yankees press forward. They continue to make the post season,
00:20:22even in the one year that they did the little mini reset, the trades were really done well.
00:20:28You know, they got Gleyber Torres out of that trade. They were able to bounce back the very next
00:20:31season and get to the CS. So like, I understand like it, you know, it's sort of like prospect
00:20:37fatigue. Like you get excited about the front, the shiny new toy. And then, you know, the new car
00:20:42smell wears off and that's beyond with Cashman at this point, cause he's been in our lives for
00:20:47decades. But I think you're right. Like the grass isn't always greener and I think they're doing a
00:20:52great job and they've put a lot of, a lot of Yankee teams, a lot of players in a good
00:20:56position to
00:20:57potentially bring home that trophy at the end of the year. And collectively the players for the most
00:21:01part haven't got the job done. So, I mean, I get it. Like maybe there's a style of player you'd
00:21:08like
00:21:08to see a little bit more diversity, but I think the Yankees have answered that to some extent. Like
00:21:12a lot of the things that I see from year to year, like, okay, this team is two this way
00:21:15or two that
00:21:16way. They don't usually stay in that mode for forever. Like they continue to make the micro
00:21:21adjustments and attempt to close down their, their weaknesses and their gaps. But this is a tough,
00:21:26this is a tough sport and there's only one team, you know, standing at the end. And sometimes
00:21:30it's really small things that get you like me hanging a slider to George Springer in game two
00:21:35of the ALCS in 2019, or like Nestor Cortez making that pitch to Freddie Freeman and it flips the whole
00:21:42thing. So, uh, the margins are small and I don't think the GM can necessarily be, uh, to blame for
00:21:47something small like that. Yeah. Look, I thought the 19 team and the 22 team were really excellent.
00:21:54Could have won the world series teams. Who knows if there was no garbage can banging,
00:21:58what could have happened in 17, maybe even, uh, got pretty close. I think the team's been
00:22:04really good. And I think if you do a deep dive on any executive, I think Andrew Friedman's the best,
00:22:09right? I think he's the best. I think he's going to end up in Cooperstown. You know,
00:22:12he traded Jordan Alvarez for Josh Fields. He did sign Trevor Bauer. He did sign Edwin Diaz.
00:22:18He did sign Kyle Tucker. Like there's no perfect, uh, you mentioned the, the well-operated bullpen.
00:22:25I think that's all probably a reflection of the pitching coach, but also the manager having feel
00:22:29when to put a guy in leverage, when to get him in and out. Uh, tell us about what you
00:22:34think about
00:22:34Aaron Boone. Cause again, if they fall short, uh, it's going to be on, on him, right?
00:22:41Oh, a hundred percent. And I, and I, and I think that he understands that everybody understands that.
00:22:46Um, I think that, I think that having played for Boone, um, in, I think it was year three for
00:22:54him,
00:22:54I came in, in his third year. Uh, so I played years three and four, and then a little bit
00:22:59again
00:23:00in 25. And obviously I've watched a ton of Yankee baseball since then. I think that his process has
00:23:05gotten better and better over time. He's maintained his, his, I stand up for the players, uh, mantra,
00:23:11and like his way of kind of insulating the players. Like he's maintained that. So he maintains the
00:23:15trust of the clubhouse in that sort of way. But I also think like the decisions have gotten better
00:23:20and I don't know whether that's a total reflection on Boone or just the overall thinking of the
00:23:24organization as well. Like they've done a better job, I think, managing the bullpen and understanding
00:23:30the value of the starters, uh, over time. I mean, there was a little bit of a stretch there where
00:23:35they
00:23:35kind of felt like they could bullpen everything. Uh, but then they've come away from that, you know,
00:23:40and now they did sign Max Fried when other guys were scared to sign him, you know? And I don't
00:23:46know, just, just looking at Boone, I do think that, you know, even hearing him talk more about
00:23:50how he doesn't approach every situation, like a righty lefty situation, right? Like there's more
00:23:56nuance there. He's, he's bringing in his baseball IQ a little bit more into the equation and his feel
00:24:01from playing the game and being around the game for so long more into the equation. That's being more
00:24:05accepted. When you watch the Dodgers, there's elements of that over the past few years. And I think
00:24:09that's key. Now I'm not there on the ground floor of every single decision, but my sense is that these
00:24:14decisions are made with a little bit more chutzpah and a little bit less just plainly reading off of
00:24:21the, off of the, off the, the Excel spreadsheet at this point. And I think that ultimately that,
00:24:26that makes for a better, um, a better decision-making process because you can't discount the fact that
00:24:31this man's been around the game for this long and has been around these players day in and day out.
00:24:35And he knows a lot more variables than maybe the spreadsheet does. Yeah. I mean, look, if we think
00:24:40a third baseman or center fielder could get better with time, why wouldn't we think a manager will
00:24:44improve as time goes by and he has more experiences, um, as a way to wrap this up, Adam, I'm
00:24:50going to
00:24:50just offer this, the Mets question mark, go wherever you want. Uh, obviously John and I have talked about
00:24:57the failure of this team all season, uh, where they are, the trade deadline, what it looks like
00:25:03moving forward, take anything you want, because obviously in a year of great disappointments,
00:25:09Detroit, Seattle, Toronto, Baltimore, like Pittsburgh, San Francisco, I'm not sure the Mets aren't number
00:25:16one, uh, again, as they were last year. Uh, and you played there as well. Uh, what, what are your
00:25:22thoughts? Yeah. Well, I mean, they are for me. I mean, I picked them to win the NL East. I
00:25:26mean,
00:25:26you know, when I'm staring at their roster this off season, I did think they had enough
00:25:30collective talent, you know, to challenge. It's hard to envision all of the stuff that's
00:25:35gone on with them this year. I do think looking back on it, it's probably too much change in one
00:25:40year is probably, uh, probably something that got them stuck in the mud early on. I mean, so much
00:25:46change and, and some of it seemed like some hard pivots, you know, the Bichette, the Bichette
00:25:51signing in particular felt like a hard pivot, uh, after not, after losing out on the
00:25:56Tucker, um, some of the stuff with Diaz. So like there was some stuff in the off season
00:25:59that wasn't exactly smooth, but I did look at the collective and I was like, damn, like
00:26:03they do have still a lot of talent on this team. Unfortunately, they have not been able
00:26:08to get it going at all this season. And, and sometimes that's just the case. I think
00:26:13the clay homes injury was a big deal when he got hit in the line drive, uh, by Spencer
00:26:17Jones in the shin. Um, that took away 40, you know, they had a situation with him and
00:26:21McLean where they had 40% of their games, where they were going to get a chance to win
00:26:25right there. And then, you know, depending on what they get out of the other seven guys,
00:26:29they can find three that can give them a chance to win over time. But unfortunately
00:26:33that wasn't the case. He got hurt. Soto spun his tires with some injuries. Lindor spun
00:26:37his tires with some injuries. So we all know the storylines, but it just hasn't gotten
00:26:41going what it means going forward. I think it's going to be very fascinating because
00:26:45this is a weird off season with the impending lockout. And also if you look at the
00:26:48free agent market, it's not that inspiring. So how do the Mets answer back? Does a lot
00:26:54of it have to come from internal growth? And I think that's probably the positive of the
00:26:57year, right? I mean, Carson Bench's growth in particular, um, he's been fantastic. So
00:27:03McLean continue to take the next step. Some of the young guys, but they're going to need
00:27:06a lot more of that, which is a little bit unfortunate given the payroll. And I can see
00:27:10why it's frustrating. But again, I think that this off season is going to be major, majorly
00:27:15important and they're going to have to thread the needle in a lot of ways. And I'm not
00:27:18particularly sure what their options are yet because they probably have some pieces coming
00:27:22back that if you gave them the truth serum, they probably wouldn't want them coming back.
00:27:26Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Cause those are some expensive, uh, truth serum players, uh, that
00:27:31we're doing. Uh, Adam is going to rejoin us later in the show to play hit and arrow with
00:27:35me. If you stick with us, uh, Pat Murphy, the manager of the Milwaukee Brewers, the first
00:27:39place Milwaukee Brewers in the NL central best record in the majors. Milwaukee Brewers joins us
00:27:44next on the show.
00:27:49Our guest this week is, uh, someone who's been with us a few times before, uh, third
00:27:55year managing the Milwaukee Brewers. It's a pretty good resume so far, Murph, uh, two division
00:28:01titles to a national league manager of the years, best record in the sport last year, by the
00:28:06way, best record in the sport this year, as we're speaking, Pat Murphy, thank you for joining
00:28:11us on the show.
00:28:12Hey, my pleasure. My pleasure.
00:28:13Murph, I wonder if I could start there. You're always like one of the advantages you've
00:28:18had concerning your market size, the young players you play with is as the little engine
00:28:23that could. Do you sense at all that opponents treat you any differently now, or the pressure
00:28:28has changed because like whatever you're spending and whoever you're using, we can't just say,
00:28:34well, that was a fluke. Uh, the team has been too good for too long again, including this
00:28:39year. Do you sense has like any pressure change in attitude for opponents, anything because
00:28:46of the success of the team?
00:28:48Well, I mean, they're, we're not sneaking up on anybody anymore last year. Definitely. Uh,
00:28:52we felt that this year there's people really, um, you know, working hard to defend kind of
00:29:00what we do. Um, and you know, the cat's out of the bag and we do, I mean, we're playing
00:29:05with probably $75 million on the field, you know what I mean? And not many organizations
00:29:12can function like that, but they went out and got the right people and some great guys
00:29:17that, that, uh, are getting an opportunity. And once people get an opportunity and they're
00:29:21hungry, you know, stuff happens. And, um, yeah, they're a little worn out right now. I think
00:29:27the, the, the way we do it can, can wear you out, but, um, that's, I mean, we got to
00:29:34put
00:29:34ourselves in this position if we have ever got a chance.
00:29:36You mentioned who's on the field. Look, there, there were two significant pieces of news that
00:29:40involved your franchise in the last week of August. Uh, or I mean, one in the last week
00:29:45of August, one in the beginning of August during the month. Why don't we go back to the one
00:29:48about who's on the field? You were the runner up to get Tarek Scoople. Uh, and, uh, I'm sure
00:29:56your organization tried, uh, et cetera. It always feels like, uh, you know, the, the goal
00:30:02is to make sure you're good every year and you're, you know, you do have some fear about
00:30:06like what collateral do you give up moving forward to emphasize this year. It's probably
00:30:11easy for Joel Sherman sitting in New York to say, Hey, the team's been to the world series
00:30:16once. It was 1982. It's never won. Don't you have to do whatever move heaven earth and
00:30:21a couple of good prospects to get Tarek Scoople. I wondered what does the manager think? And does
00:30:26the manager push it all considering it's a very successful front office and giving you
00:30:31talent? Do you push it a certain time of year to say, guys, we're going to be playing the
00:30:36big boys. The national league has maybe never been better. We're only playing the big boys
00:30:40in October. What, what, what does the manager feel when he goes some, and by the way, it ends
00:30:44up a Dodger. Right. Yeah. Well, you can't let your mind go there. I mean, it's cliche.
00:30:51It's yeah, sure. Murph. Yeah. Right. You can't let yourself go there for too long. You know,
00:30:59you, you just have to kind of say, all right, these are the cards. How are we going to play
00:31:04it? You know my buddy tells me stories about wartime when he, when he served and, you know,
00:31:16he's like, you know, don't, don't complain or explain, you know, here we go. No, let's,
00:31:21let's get ready to go. Now, obviously that's a lot more serious than what we're doing, but
00:31:24you know, it, it kind of, it kind of pertains like we all get so wound up in this and
00:31:29we
00:31:30could do this and we could do this. There's no guarantees. Um, what is guaranteed is that
00:31:35we got to keep trying to win every single night and it isn't easy. But again, when you're
00:31:40doing it with the right people, um, you can't worry about what your front office is doing.
00:31:45You can't, that's, that's not my job. And that is tough to learn. It's tough to learn.
00:31:49Like, it's easy to say, like, we got all these prospects, what are we doing? But there's
00:31:53more to it and that's not my job. So I'm just going to, to, to say that and try to
00:32:00live
00:32:00the, the piece of just, you know, don't worry about what they're doing. Let's take care of
00:32:06what we have. What do we have right now? Okay. Let's make the best of it.
00:32:09If I could just piggyback on that Murph is like, you know, you were the bench coach, uh, to
00:32:15counsel for very successful Brewer teams. You're now part of this very successful Brewer
00:32:19team the last three years. So you know what October looks like. Do you, whatever's left
00:32:25standing right now, do you think that this is the team that could be the first Brewer
00:32:29champion? And if so, why, what, what, what is it about the group that could get through
00:32:33what's going to be a hornet's nest in the national league before you even get to the world
00:32:37series? Right. I think that, I think that, um, you go through phases, you see flashes
00:32:44and you go, wow, man, that we really did that. Right. You know, we, we, we, we navigated
00:32:50that well. Um, and then you see other times and you're like, you know, we're young. We're
00:32:56very, we got three position players, three of the youngest 15 position players in baseball,
00:33:00uh, on the field virtually every day. Um, and one of them's a potential superstar. The
00:33:08other two are really good players, but you know, that lack of experience can come into
00:33:14play. Um, we've got some other guys that are getting to play full time for the first
00:33:18time in a while. Uh, we got guys coming back. Mitchell's been injured for four years. Um,
00:33:23um, and he's finding his feet, but this is his first, uh, you know, uh, 130 game journey.
00:33:31Um, and, and we need more out of them. So it's like, you know, there's the, as the, as
00:33:37the guy, as the manager, you, you just, you look at all the things that could go wrong or
00:33:42all your weaknesses and you try to show them up. But then I look around and I go, how do
00:33:46we have the best record in baseball? How, you know, it's like these guys perform, these
00:33:51guys go out and do it every night. And, um, yeah, proud of, proud of, can we do it? Of
00:33:57course. You got to believe that you got to believe that. Yeah. Can we do it? Cause you
00:34:01know how baseball is, you can't do it. The name on the back of the Jersey doesn't, doesn't
00:34:06win the game for you. You know what I mean? It's the collective unit trying to chip away
00:34:11and give yourself a chance to win four out of seven.
00:34:14I'm assuming one of the three young players you were talking about is Cooper Pratt. Uh, and
00:34:18that would be the other piece of news, right? At, uh, uh, August 25th, uh, you asked them
00:34:24to bunt, uh, fouled one off. He took a strike, uh, that certainly didn't please, uh, the manager
00:34:30of the team and a sacrifice, obvious sacrifice situation. Uh, this was against the Mets. So
00:34:35it was high profile. He then hit a ball, uh, into shower right field. It seemed like he lost
00:34:40it initially, try to find it, ran to first base. Uh, maybe there was an opportunity to take
00:34:45second and, uh, suddenly Cooper Pratt was out of the lineup that became national news.
00:34:50You did address it. Uh, and I, when you and I talked afterwards, I, I, I think the line
00:34:55I said to you Murph was, I bet you didn't take Cooper Pratt out. I bet you this was about
00:35:00something much larger than Cooper Pratt. And, uh, for our listeners here, what was it about?
00:35:06And, and, and do, do you think it was the right thing to do now with even a little more
00:35:11perspective with it? Well, I mean, I still, yeah, of course, I think it's the right thing
00:35:16to do because it, it was thought out. Um, it was coming, um, and Cooper's an incredible
00:35:23kid. I have to make that note. He's an incredible, he's a special kid. Um, and he's been, you
00:35:28know, in the big leagues for a couple of months and he's done really well. Um, I just wanted
00:35:33to make sure that some of, some of the things that you get away with in the minor leagues
00:35:39or some of the things that might go unnoticed. And there's a lot of them guys. There's a
00:35:45lot of them. It wasn't just those two incidents and it wasn't just Cooper Pratt, but I had
00:35:50to let those young players know that's not going to be tolerated. You have to do the little
00:35:55things. And sometimes you set that example for everyone else watching, uh, meaning your
00:36:02own players and they know what's going on. They have the pulse of what's going on.
00:36:07Uh, in that clubhouse and, um, they came to the rescue and talk to Cooper and explain
00:36:14to him, this isn't about you. This is about the way the brewers have to play.
00:36:18You know, Murph, and I'm sure you hear this at least as an echo, if not directly. Well,
00:36:22you know, that's Murphy could do that in Milwaukee. Uh, it's a small market. Nothing. I, I, I,
00:36:28I actually disagree with those people. I watch bullshit play in New York enough, uh, that
00:36:33I'm like, I would be a lot tougher on it. Do you, if you manage New York, Chicago, Boston, LA,
00:36:40is this how you'd manage regardless of the market, fan base, media base, et cetera?
00:36:46I mean, I don't think we change all that much as, uh, as people in a position of influence
00:36:52or leadership, whatever you want to call it. I do think we have to change year by year
00:36:56and situation by situation and person by person. I mean, everybody deserves respect. Everybody
00:37:03deserves, um, a clear understanding of the standards. Um, you know, I don't, I think I would
00:37:11be, I mean, basically is that you, you, you've got to set an example of what the standards really
00:37:20are, and then you have to be accountable and hold up those standards. And if you don't,
00:37:26it, something has to change. And I just feel like, yeah, you, you have to be that way. Discipline
00:37:32along with love, as I say, love and discipline, love first, discipline second, is how you lead.
00:37:39And, um, you know, to, uh, to know that, um, that the players supported it, it meant a lot
00:37:50to me. And I knew they would, I guess, with the group I have, when you're in a bigger environment,
00:37:54I don't know. I mean, uh, I think so because you're going to build those relationships kind
00:38:00of the same way, Joel. I don't, I don't know. I, I think that, uh, that's how you have to
00:38:04do
00:38:05it. If you want to win it all, you want to secure that, that, uh, you're going to have a
00:38:09chance.
00:38:10Murphy, you use some words that I find fascinating. You talked about the collective,
00:38:14uh, you know, which is an interesting word because clearly the sum of the brewer's parts
00:38:19is part of the reason that this works. Uh, you talked about standard, the standard you expect.
00:38:25It feels it comes under that nebulous umbrella of culture. What does culture mean to a manager
00:38:32who clearly believes in setting some form of it and feels his team wins because of it?
00:38:38Yeah. I mean, I, I think it's like everything else, uh, hard to, hard to evaluate in the whole
00:38:44leadership world. It's hard to evaluate your culture. It's hard to evaluate your influence
00:38:49on the culture. Um, so I let other people do. I just want relationships with players
00:38:55and it's based on love and discipline. And that discipline deals with the standards in the game
00:39:01of baseball, very difficult to execute for all the reasons we know in today's world, but that's what
00:39:10you set and players live up to it. And with that, you know, again, we have so many cracks in
00:39:17our armor.
00:39:18We have so much vulnerability. I mean, we're, we're basically doing this with $80 million and no one
00:39:24else's is doing that. Um, and, and, and they're doing it at a high level with a high expectation
00:39:30with people gun in force now, cause we had the best record in baseball last year. Um,
00:39:37again, the culture becomes something that's an outgrowth of, of great success, I guess,
00:39:43or also it's based on principles that we all know about. It's authentic. It's honest. It's,
00:39:49um, it's straightforward. Um, it's fun. The people feel valued. They feel like they have a role.
00:39:57Um, yeah. And I don't know, I'm going to be honest about this. I don't think I'm great at it.
00:40:05Like,
00:40:05I don't think that like, I have some special way of doing it. I really don't, you know, I, I
00:40:11think
00:40:11I'm in a good situation and, uh, um, that lends itself to things going well, but I just think that
00:40:19we're always trying to, I'm this morning before I college, I've been up for three hours, just
00:40:23making notes and who to talk to, who to have a meeting with today, who to, you know, it's just,
00:40:30it's all, um, constant upkeep of trying to keep that train roll. Yeah. Your modesty, uh, speaks
00:40:38loudly Murph, but the, uh, two NL manager of the years and the record also say something about how
00:40:43you're doing. So I, I, I, I'll say what you didn't, uh, uh, and look, you know, you talk about
00:40:49the payroll, but that the payroll doesn't reflect the talent. I mean, if Jacob Mizorowski is a free
00:40:53agent, he might get 50 or 60 million by himself a year. And I wonder what it's like, uh, like
00:40:59he's
00:40:59so clearly important to what you're doing, but also probably as maybe he'll be even more important
00:41:05if you're going to be able to get through October. And I just wonder how you balance it. He's thought
00:41:09he's in innings where he's never pitched. It isn't like he's a finesse guy. He's throwing one
00:41:14or two, one or three. And the success in August was really good. Again, it was a two something
00:41:19ERA. Uh, he didn't pitch less than six innings in any of his starts, but the strikeouts were down
00:41:24a little bit. Are you seeing any oil leak here? And how do you navigate this? Because you're
00:41:32trying to accomplish two things. Assure the, uh, NL central assure the best record. So everything
00:41:39goes through Milwaukee, but then make sure he can maybe make five, four or five or six starts in
00:41:44October. Cause he's so important. How do you balance it? Very difficult, you know, and, and, um,
00:41:49I think he knows it too. And you're seeing, um, a bit of less effort. You're, you're, you're seeing,
00:41:56um, him navigate that himself. We are obviously taking measures. He had a break there for a while
00:42:03after the all-star break, um, and before. So we're, we're, we're navigating that also, um,
00:42:10um, for him and other pitchers, you know, um, so that, that's kind of part of this process. There's
00:42:17no, there's no, um, way to measure, you know, where the kid, what the kid can do. He's just been
00:42:26unbelievable. And really, you know, what a competitor, you know, without his best stuff,
00:42:33he navigates through six innings. Um, and people think he's just a hard thrower, but he's,
00:42:40he's doing much more. Um, yeah, I, I, I've gained so much respect for this young man and how he's
00:42:47handled everything. And, uh, I don't know how he does it. You know, I really don't. I mean,
00:42:50it's really, really his rookie year. I mean, or he's had a half season and now to see him the
00:42:57way
00:42:57he's performing is just, you know, and it wasn't like he was the household name three years ago,
00:43:04the way my day is, or the way McGonagall was or weather hole, you know, like it wasn't like
00:43:10Jacob Vizorowski was like, Oh, he's the next coming. They felt good about him, but I mean,
00:43:15his minor league numbers were that nearly what his major league numbers are. So you look at it and
00:43:21you say this kid's, I mean, he's got another gear and, uh, yeah, but we are managing it.
00:43:28There's no question. It feels like a very, very similar story to what we're watching
00:43:32here in New York is like Cam Schlittler wasn't thought of as the whatever. And his innings are
00:43:38starting to go to a place, uh, that he's leading the American league in innings and they're trying
00:43:43to figure out how to navigate and they're balancing it like you do. And I just wonder what it all
00:43:48means
00:43:49to you. You you're in the midst, you played a game last night, the Cubs won big, uh, you're
00:43:54playing seven times in 10 days against the Cubs. You have a nice little cushion on the Cubs, but of
00:43:58course, head to head stuff can change things very quickly and you're playing them and you got a
00:44:03little bit of cushion on Atlanta and the Dodgers for the best record in the sport. How important is
00:44:10it for you to, and, and how much do you push for both things when your division get the best
00:44:16record
00:44:16or worse, the second best record? And essentially you win a round of the playoffs if you get
00:44:21the first or second seat, right? Cause you avoid the danger of the two out of three.
00:44:26Obviously, you know, you take care of your club day to day. You know, we're in a 16 game stretch.
00:44:32We're playing every day. It's, it's just managing today, um, with your mindful of what's going on.
00:44:39You can't divide your attention too much because you can't assume victories. Uh, this team has been
00:44:46so consistent for five months, but the schedule in, in, um, September, um, the familiarity with the
00:44:55teams playing us and then the teams buying for a playoff spot and the other spots. Um, yeah.
00:45:04And then this, this thing with the Cubs is, you know, seven games with the Cubs right out of the
00:45:08shoot here in September. You know, that's, uh, they're, I mean, they're super talented and
00:45:14experienced and they have all the ingredients pitching. And I mean, they've been a kid that
00:45:19pitched last night, been unbelievable for Holmes. Uh, unbelievable. What an outing. Uh, he had a
00:45:25little, he had a little cushion of his own. Uh, but he was, he was great. Now seeing all that,
00:45:33you know, we can't afford to think ahead too much, but we all know you want one of the buys
00:45:37and you,
00:45:37and you, you want to win the division. Yeah. Uh, I wonder, you know, I, there, there's a thing
00:45:43that managers say all the time that maybe the toughest thing to do is manage a superstar into
00:45:49his twilight a little bit. I was great. You're dealing with it with, I hate to push Christian
00:45:54Yelich into his twilight, but he's in his mid thirties. He's not the same player he was, uh, when he
00:46:00was
00:46:00an MVP, all-star, et cetera, he's DH-ing mainly. Uh, you're protecting him against some left-handers,
00:46:06it seems along the way. What, what is this like? Cause obviously he's by far the highest paid player
00:46:12on a team that doesn't spend a lot of money. He's the highest, you know, historically at least
00:46:17profile guy before the miss came along. What, what, what is it like to, to try to manage a great
00:46:23player
00:46:24who is not quite as great anymore? Right. Well, I'll tell you this. Um, it's easy because this kid
00:46:33is who he is. And I say this with complete honesty and sincerity and not trying to protect,
00:46:40you know, my relationship with him. I'm just telling you straight out, this is a teammate.
00:46:46This is a ball player who cares deeply about the game, about his, his teammates,
00:46:55about the organization. He carries a tremendous burden. The other night, one 30 in the morning
00:47:02on an off day. And I'm telling you this, uh, you know, I guess everybody's going to hear it.
00:47:09Does anybody listen to this podcast, Joel?
00:47:11Well, you know, now that I don't have Heyman on this week, maybe, but I mean, um, this kid
00:47:18was one 30 in the morning hitting basics, uh, on an off day at your stadium at, at the stadium
00:47:27with no one around. I w I happened to be there. My son was there. It's like this, this guy
00:47:34cares.
00:47:34He cares. He cares. And he's since then he's got a 900 OPS or something like that, but
00:47:42he gets it, you know, his body hasn't changed. He's a great athlete. His body hasn't changed that
00:47:47much, but the burden that he carries and he's our leader and he's our, you know, he has,
00:47:54he has the best interests of the team at heart all the time. He's been a joy to be around.
00:48:00He's a
00:48:01great man. Um, what he's about Joel, like that's what makes our game great. I'm sure there's a lot
00:48:08of these guys out there, you know, like just really represent the game. Well, and Christian is,
00:48:15it's been easy and he's been a huge part of this thing, whether his numbers last year, he
00:48:20knocked in a hundred hit 30 homers, but whether it's that or what he's doing this year, he's still
00:48:26a huge part of it. You know, Murph, I joked about John, but John is the greatest security blanket
00:48:31I've got. And when we do interviews like this, I recognize that John always asks a question or two
00:48:36that I was forgot to jot down, forgot to think about. So I want to let you go. Cause I
00:48:41know
00:48:41there's a big series coming up, but I'll give you open forum. What, what did I miss here? What's
00:48:45important to Pat Murphy, the Milwaukee brewers? Do you think I, I didn't hit on something that's
00:48:50really important about your franchise or you right now with about 25 games in four weeks left in the
00:48:55season? And then of course, a really important post season to see if the brewers could, could,
00:49:00could actually stamp a season for the first time ever. Right. Yeah. We've, we've got a nice
00:49:06organization, you know, like it, it is family-like when you're, you're talking about Mark and Matt
00:49:12Arnold and Matt Arnold's crew. You know, we work together pretty good. You know, it doesn't mean we
00:49:20agree, but it, it does mean we're willing to show up every day and listen, be open.
00:49:25And, um, you know, you can criticize the brewers, not doing a lot of the deadline or not selling a
00:49:34bunch of prospects or whatever that, that may be. Um, and, and it's understandable, um, how this
00:49:41works out in October, um, will be based on, you know, this collective group, how they can become
00:49:48uncommon. You know what I mean? Because we can't win with just sitting back and trying to hit homers
00:49:52and, and just power pitching and everywhere. You're going to have some people that you've
00:49:57never heard of, but they're willing to be uncommon and come together. And I think that'll
00:50:03be the difference maker. Yeah. You know, just as a way to let you go here is the length of
00:50:08the team.
00:50:09I just went and did this. I'm a third in the majors and runs per game, third in the majors
00:50:13and
00:50:13runs against the game. And I'm a big defensive efficiency guy. Cause I'm just like, I think it
00:50:18combines everything. Are you positioned? Well, is the ball hit it being hit? Not hard. Do you have
00:50:22good field? You're seventh in that? Like you're, you're exceptional at everything. Uh, and like,
00:50:27like your team. And I think it's about the breadth of it that you could use a lot of humans
00:50:34to do.
00:50:34You know, you look at your bullpen and it's like one good arm after another lefty and righty, uh,
00:50:39it's going to be a bear for teams to score off of you in the post season. So, so, and
00:50:43by the way,
00:50:44uh, again, you're not going to do it the right man managing the team. So Murph, uh, as always,
00:50:49uh, you've been on a few times. It's particularly appreciated this week when I am running solo.
00:50:54So, uh, Murph, thank you so much for joining us on the show.
00:50:57Thank you. I really appreciate being on.
00:51:05I thank, uh, Pat Murphy for joining us on the show. Of course, uh, filling in again,
00:51:10relief pitcher, extraordinaire, uh, Adam Adovino, uh, back to play hit or error. Uh, what do you
00:51:16got, uh, Adam, a hit or an error for me? It's just this week. Uh, all the kicking up of
00:51:21all
00:51:21of the award races has really excited me personally. And I know rookie of the year, uh, American league
00:51:26Cy Young and L MVP is another one that maybe is a little bit more, uh, becoming a little bit
00:51:31more
00:51:31interesting. Cause PCA went crazy this last week and really, uh, for the Otani supporters, uh,
00:51:37out there. It made it a little bit harder, I think, but I mean, he could still, he has the
00:51:41Trump card, of course, if he comes back and pitches, but anyway, my point is I'm loving these
00:51:44races. The nationally rookie of the year race in particular is crazy. Uh, to me, weather holds
00:51:49now on the IL South stewards leading the NL and RB eyes and in traditional stats. We've seen a lot
00:51:54of people come out and make the case for South Stewart bench and McLean, I think also have a stake
00:51:59to this. So, um, I I've loved these races. And to me, it's like really cool to watch multiple
00:52:04things at stake here in the last month, all of these award races, as well as the wild cards in
00:52:08particular. Yeah. The award races are great. The guy who pitched against the Yankees last night,
00:52:12Urena is a rookie. He's been terrific this year. Uh, I know McGonagall is going to win,
00:52:18uh, probably, but Urena is going to get on people's votes. You know, the thing I keep thinking about
00:52:23Adam is we have Otani fatigue, uh, because here, here's the reality. He made 14 starts this year,
00:52:32but he made them too early in the year. So we've acting like he didn't have a one 70 ERA.
00:52:38The same guy who's got a 900 OPS last year. Do you know how many starts he made? He made
00:52:4214,
00:52:42the same exact as mouth he had this year. You know what he did though? He didn't start until
00:52:47June 15th or so. So people that was fresh in their mind, he's actually been a much better pitcher
00:52:52this year than he was for those 14 starts last year. Now he's probably a better offensive player last
00:52:58year than he was this year, but still, even if he was league average, the idea that somebody's
00:53:03pitching and hitting, we have just given up the idea of the unicorn, unbelievable value.
00:53:09I think PCA is probably the MVP, but I'm not sure about it because I just wonder if I'm doing
00:53:15everything else that everyone else is doing, which is it's Charles Barkley's turn to win the MVP.
00:53:20Cause I don't want to give it to Michael Jordan again.
00:53:22Yeah, I know. I think there's a huge element to that even within myself. I mean, I'm getting
00:53:26swept up in the PCA stuff right now. I mean, people start to put his, his, you know, his
00:53:31analytical value into context and then, you know, it becomes like historic, which is the stuff that's
00:53:37been needed to beat these incumbent MVPs recently. Right. Like when judge beat Otani had to, he had
00:53:42to break the home record, home run record, right. To get that done. Um, there was the 50, 50 season
00:53:47that Otani had. I mean, there's been certain accolades that have sort of come along with the
00:53:50MVP and PCA is headed that direction. I totally agree though with the fatigue. If Shohei made these
00:53:5514 starts now, the narrative would be completely flipped. So say 14 starts better, better this year,
00:54:02but he did it the wrong time of the year. Uh, I'm going to, I'm going to give, uh, an
00:54:07error to
00:54:07something. And hopefully I know they got a lot of work on the CBA. This is small peanuts, but, uh,
00:54:13I'm going to ask you, do you by any chance know what the e-bug is? The EBUG? I do
00:54:19not.
00:54:19It's the emergency backup goalie in hockey. It's the emergency third goalie, which in previous years
00:54:26could be like the Zamboni driver, just like if the two main goalies got hurt. Well, they've
00:54:31actually strictured it in like teams now travel and it's like, doesn't count against your roster
00:54:37or anything, but if you need it, there he is. And watching Andrew Monasterio pitch
00:54:45on Sunday, throw 40 miles an hour, give up a couple of homers, make everything worse that made
00:54:52the Chisholm stuff worse, right? Because by the end it's 15 to one and people are feeling lousy about
00:54:57it. There used to be a charm to me, Adam, when I was younger, oh, a position player is coming
00:55:03into
00:55:03pitch. Everyone's yucking it up. We have already set the record for position players coming in
00:55:09relief this year with a month left in the season and with rules put in place to try to limit
00:55:14this.
00:55:15So to me, no one's going to limit it because, you know, no one wants to throw the extra arm
00:55:20once the
00:55:20game gets out of control. So how about some quadruple A pitcher travels with the team? You could set it
00:55:28up week to week, you know, like you can move them if you wanted to be a prospect one week,
00:55:32you give
00:55:33a major league money and he gets major league service time if he appears in the game. If not,
00:55:40you know, he's there. I'm sure he'll like the major league life and at least whatever better than that.
00:55:44And at least somebody like in a sport where the stats really matter, the fact that like we're just
00:55:50like allowing people to tee off on 40 mile an hour pitches and distort everything. There's no charm to
00:55:58it anymore for me. So let's have what I'm going to call. They have the e-bug. I'm going to
00:56:04call it
00:56:04the ERA, the emergency relief assistant. Can we get an ERA in the new CBA? Well, I've been lamenting
00:56:12this on my YouTube show a little bit as well. It's like these guys get to pad their stats,
00:56:17these hitters by hitting off the position players. But like we used to get to pad our stats by facing
00:56:21pitchers and striking them out and hoarding those strikeouts. But now we don't get that opportunity
00:56:25anymore. These guys get the opportunity to do it in this ridiculous fashion. I mean,
00:56:29it has gotten crazy. I mean, you see it almost, you see it a lot. You see it at least
00:56:33in one game
00:56:33a night right now where guys are throwing and lobbing it in there. I think what you're going
00:56:37to run into is just a fight over the money. Of course, you know, pay somebody. Yeah. That's
00:56:42what it comes down to. Give money. But like you're, you're ruining the sport. You know what you're
00:56:47doing? You're saving some money. Austin Wells is going to arbitration this off season and he's
00:56:51going to have an extra home run. He hit off of Andrew Monasterio. So you'll save some money
00:56:56on free agency or something someplace down the line. You'll put on a better product.
00:57:00That's worth money always. And you're the stewards of the game. We're talking about pennies in the
00:57:05margin because these are going to be minimum wage guys. You know what you could do, Adam. You were
00:57:09those guys once you could make it half a minimum wage and half a day of service time. And guys
00:57:15would
00:57:15still clamor for it, right? Because it's better than being in the minor leagues.
00:57:19By the way, like the taxi squad stuff does exist. Like I remember being in minor league
00:57:24down the stretch playoffs and some kid will come out of nowhere from a ball and he's just
00:57:29with us in case a catcher goes down. Like this is, this is common sense. Like, you know,
00:57:35you know, have somebody so that the game doesn't turn ridiculous. But yeah, MLB has not gone
00:57:41that direction. I haven't heard too many fans up in arms about it. I guess I haven't paid
00:57:46that much attention, but it does seem, it does seem like it's just entirely too often,
00:57:51even with the rules being put in place. I agree with you. I think it's a negative for
00:57:54sure.
00:57:54Well, maybe no one's complaining, but you know what nobody's doing anymore? People
00:57:59used to be excited. Like, oh, Wade Boggs is coming in to throw a knuckleball.
00:58:02Yeah.
00:58:03You know, like it was rare and what's rare is valuable. Like now Andrew Monasterio is doing
00:58:08nothing on a major league field should be something I can do.
00:58:13Nothing that's done on a major league field should be something that me, I could go out
00:58:18on the mound and do exactly what Monasterio is doing. That should never happen. But, and
00:58:23even if you bring in a quadruple eight pitcher, that guy could throw 92, 94, like, like at
00:58:27least challenge the game. I give up a couple of runs, but at least it's an actual pitcher
00:58:32doing it and it's not distorting the game, lengthening the game. And it's just not rare
00:58:38and fun anymore. That was not fun on Sunday. I mean, even if you were a Yankee fan, did
00:58:42you really enjoy that? I mean, I may be cause it's the Red Sox and you're beating their brains
00:58:47in, but that, that, I don't know. I thought it really pushed me, Adam. It was so awful
00:58:51to watch.
00:58:52Where are you at on like teams bringing the guy in when they have the lead, like the
00:58:56huge lead, they bring the position player in like, cause that to me is like kind of interesting.
00:59:02Uh, Dodgers, the only team I've seen have the guts to do it, but yeah.
00:59:04Yeah. I, I hate all of it now because it's not charming. It used to be charming and now
00:59:10it's just more analytic, strategic stuff that takes me further away from feeling like I'm
00:59:15watching a major league. I should always feel like I'm watching a major league baseball game,
00:59:19whether I'm reporting on it, playing in it or paying, you know, watching it on TV, paying
00:59:25to sit in the crowd. I should always feel like a major league baseball game. And for about 20,
00:59:2925 minutes on Sunday, it did not feel like a major league baseball game.
00:59:33Yeah. That got out of hand. That was, it was just like, it didn't have any reflection on
00:59:37what, where the game was more than halfway through it. So yeah, absolutely. Uh, the guy
00:59:42who's major league all the time is our producer, Tommy Hogan. Tommy, thank you so much for helping
00:59:46me this week. While John is out Apple, Spotify, uh, wherever you listen to podcasts, please rate
00:59:51and review us the New York post, uh, sports YouTube page. Uh, please give us a view, Adam,
00:59:57a special thanks to you for jumping in. Uh, I really enjoyed this. I always enjoy talking
01:00:03to you. I always learn, um, a little bit smarter after I talked to Adam out of, you know, whether
01:00:07you were in uniform or out. So I appreciate you joining us on the show. Of course, anything
01:00:12for you. Thank you so much, Joel. Thank you. And thank you everyone for watching and stick
01:00:16with us on the show.