00:00Dan saudara dalam wawancara eksklusif James A. Robinson, penulis buku Mengapa Negara Gagal,
00:08menyebut dalam tragedi 1998 di Indonesia dipandang sebagai titik balik krusial
00:15yang meruntuhkan institusi politik ekstraktif Orde Baru.
00:20James menilai transisi politik Indonesia berhasil mengonsolidasikan diri menjadi negara demokrasi stabil
00:26meskipun pertumbuhan potensialnya belum dimanfaatkan secara optimal.
00:31Sementara Akademisi sekaligus Ketua Dewan Pers Komarudin Hidayat dalam diskusi menyebutkan
00:38demokrasi di Indonesia mampu bertahan karena ditopang oleh akal kultural
00:44serta kuatnya tradisi civil society seperti NU dan Muhammadiyah.
00:50Adanya partai politik yang telah tumbuh sebelum kemerdekaan.
00:53berbeda dengan negara Arab yang minim gerakan sipil dan pernah gagal dalam berdemokrasi.
01:03So one thing which I think is very important knowing that Indonesia also went through a reformation
01:10in 1998 is when we go through that when we go through a very critical juncture like that
01:17we have to make sure that we really change the system not just change the player because once
01:27we don't change the system we're not really fixing what's going on with the country we're just
01:34changing who's holding the reins and us people will just go through the same process again without
01:40seeing actual growth.
01:42But how can we be sure that when this happens we are changing the system that when this happens
01:49the new people who are sitting there is doing something to change the system are they in the case yeah
01:56I mean I you know I think this is a complicated question this politics of transition yeah yeah in the
02:03sense of
02:05sometimes you know I can take you take the English case for example the British case you know Britain didn't
02:13take you know it took a kind of compromise path you know like for example if you look at the
02:20elites British elites aristocracy whatever the aristocracy retained political power through the existence of the house of laws until relatively
02:31recently you know the aristocracy could actually
02:33exercise political authority that was not a democratic institution but it was left alone as a kind of compromise to
02:43kind of keep everybody on board with the plan of building a different society you know other countries you know
02:51other parts of the world had revolutions and they eliminated the aristocracy you know they expropriated
02:56or they executed them or whatever but sometimes you know in a transition to a more inclusive society you want
03:04to try to keep everybody on board you want to try to make sure that some people don't try to
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