00:00You know, what we're debating is not whether pellet guns were fired.
00:03You know, Saeed Zafar Islam and final comments from all our panelists, they were fired.
00:08Now, was this a graded response that the judicial inquiry will, you know, come to an answer on?
00:14But let me ask you a question, Saeed Zafar Islam.
00:17You've been a student of politics.
00:18Optics is everything in politics.
00:20If this FIR was registered, nobody would have even known.
00:23What you gave today on a platter to the Congress was six hours of airtime
00:28where the Congress leader of opposition, Rahul Gandhi, after much grandstanding,
00:32has come out smelling of roses, where he's taken up the cause of the victim
00:35and then managed to lodge an FIR in six hours.
00:38If this FIR was lodged, nothing would have happened.
00:42We wouldn't have been here sitting and discussing what went down today.
00:46Well, Priti Jai, you have to understand, Rahul Gandhiji's only aspiration is to politicize the issue,
00:55which is not a political issue.
00:56When it comes to students and their concern, it needs to be addressed adequately instead of misguiding them.
01:04And Rahul Gandhiji is misguiding them, misleading them.
01:07And that is something which we need to understand.
01:09And as a citizen of this country, everyone needs to understand what he's up to.
01:13He's using their shoulders to pursue his own ambition.
01:16And that is why he took this opportunity to actually politicize this issue.
01:21A fire is an anonymized fire.
01:24No person is being actually named in this fire.
01:29So, this judicial inquiry would have given the same outcome because the objective of the judicial inquiry is also
01:37to probe and find out who has actually fired the pellet gun.
01:43Sir, pellet guns have been admitted.
01:45I told you, sir, the Rapid Action Force has made a diary empty that it was used.
01:49Whether police excesses was there or something which needs to be determined.
01:54Yes.
01:55And the judicial inquiry will be determined.
01:56Was it a graded response or was there excessive force used?
02:00That is what is going to be debated.
02:02Prithi, that is what I'm saying.
02:03That these things need to be examined, investigated and then concluded.
02:09But Rahul Gandhiji actually, instead of suggesting the student or the person that there is a judicial
02:16inquiry which is being undertaken.
02:18So, you need to wait.
02:19Instead of actually politicizing the issue which was totally unlawful.
02:22But why not, sir?
02:23The FIR could have been filed nonetheless.
02:24There was an individual who wanted to exercise his right.
02:28No, no, no.
02:29I have very little time.
02:30I want to bring in everyone.
02:31So, allow me to bring in everyone.
02:33I have, let me bring in Dr. Nasir Hussain.
02:36Dr. Hussain, you know, the fact that Saeed Zafar Islam is raising that the attempt is not
02:41to help the students.
02:42The attempt is to leverage maximum political mileage.
02:45Even today, the discussion in the end was not that an FIR was lodged.
02:49It was more that it was lodged finally at the behest of the Home Minister.
02:52So, the attempt is very clear to take the fight to the doorstep of the Home Minister because
02:57that is what politics demands from the Congress right now.
03:01The casualty, the students.
03:03That's what the BJP is saying.
03:04Is law and order, Priti, is law and order not a political issue?
03:09Is not filing a FIR for more than one month not a political issue?
03:14Is the students protesting not a political issue?
03:19Atrocities against students is not a political issue?
03:23Agitation, large-scale agitation and historic agitation by the students where the education
03:29minister resigns is not a political issue?
03:31Is it not true that Delhi police reports to Amitsha?
03:36It is not true it took LOP to go to the police station and get an FIR filed today and
03:43it was
03:44only after the pressure was exerted at the police station by the LOP, not less than the
03:49LOP of the country that Amitsha, on the instructions of Amitsha that FIR was filed?
03:54Is it not true?
03:55So, these are all political issues.
03:57Everything is political in this country.
03:58Nothing moves in this country because of politics.
04:01And for Zafar Islam who said that this country is democratic, if the country was really democratic,
04:06a FIR should have been filed on day one.
04:08And for Mr. Sethi, that FIR would have undermined the morale of the forces.
04:18N number of court-martials have happened in this country.
04:21N number of police constabulary is behind bars.
04:24Higher level police personnel is behind bars.
04:28Higher level police officers, serving officers have been arrested and put behind bars because
04:33of excess use of force.
04:33Okay, sir.
04:34Allow me to bring in Rajat Sethi and Yashogarda Nazar for one final comment each.
04:38Rajat, final comments.
04:41Well, since there is no question, I will just give a general comment.
04:44But, so, Nasir ji, I agree with that.
04:48There have been court-martials, but only after due processes.
04:52You have to allow the police forces or the RAF due process.
04:56What Supreme Court is doing is offering a due process.
05:00What Rahul Gandhi ji is trying to do is not due process.
05:03Mr. Sethi, what we are asking is for simple FIR to be filed to find out as to which, who
05:11is that person who used that pellet gun against the student or who is that person who issued
05:16instruction to use the pellet gun.
05:18Sir, sir, I am running out of time and Rajat make his point and then I will need to go
05:21to
05:21Yashogarda Nazar.
05:22Rajat bai, quickly.
05:23Again, the simple point remains that use of pellet guns under what operational conditions,
05:29under what exigencies, under what level of escalation is allowed, is not allowed.
05:34Do you know that it is illegal absolutely to use plastic?
05:37Is it a non-lethal weapon?
05:39Is it in an orderly manner, in an escalatory manner?
05:43Is this the right weapon to use or not to use?
05:46There are operational manuals.
05:48You are jumping to a conclusion that there was a crime which has happened here.
05:55I don't think the issue is that the pellet gun should have been used or should have not
06:00been used.
06:01That is not the issue.
06:02The issue is also not about the police action in this particular respect.
06:09The issue is that it was found out that the pellet gun was used but the government did not
06:15back it.
06:16The home minister should have said that the Delhi put in its lawful discharge of duties
06:22has used the pellet gun and under what circumstances...
06:26And maybe that F.I.R. should have been lodged and the Congress would not have walked away
06:31with six hours of footage or even this debate this evening.
06:35We are going to leave it at that.
06:36I thank all four of you for joining us.
06:38Terribly out of time.
