- 7 weeks ago
In this episode of Newstrack, the big focus is the major relief granted to Sonia and Rahul Gandhi in the National Herald case.
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00:00Hello everyone, you're watching NewsTrack with me, Maria Shaquille.
00:04The spotlight is once again on the National Herald case.
00:08A story which has created many firestorms in the past.
00:13The political firestorm in that case is back after the relief for the Gandhis.
00:19What we are seeing is play out a battle on the streets and also inside sunset.
00:25With the Congress accusing Prime Minister Narendra Modi and the BJP of waging a decade-long political vendetta
00:33and weaponizing various investigative agencies to target the Gandhis.
00:38The BJP on the other hand has refused to back down.
00:42What they are saying is that this is just a temporary relief
00:46and that the real truth of the larger corruption by the Congress leadership will be exposed soon.
00:54So the questions that we ask on the show tonight.
00:57First, is the National Herald case a fight for justice or a tool of political vendetta as the Congress claims?
01:05Second, is the relief granted to the Gandhis merely temporary as the BJP insists?
01:13I'll ask all these questions to the panelists who will be joining me shortly.
01:18But first up, here's what happened today.
01:24After a long legal battle, the relief for the Gandhis in the National Herald case has sparked a fresh political storm.
01:34The Congress is now up the ante against the Narendra Modi government alleging a decade-long vendetta.
01:40Congress MP staged a protest at Parliament's iconic Makar Dwar,
02:08waving Satya Mev Jayate plakards and demanding justice.
02:12Jaiete! Jaiete!
02:14After the Delhi court refused to take a congressman of the ED-Charshiiti National Herald case,
02:19today the Congress MPs along with a few other MPs of India block are right now protesting right in front of Makar Dwar.
02:27Right behind me you can see as to how the MPs are now protesting and KC Vinokopal is reading that entire protest,
02:34the posters which the Congress MPs are holding reads Satya Mev Jayate, truths prevail.
02:40The protest was not just limited to Delhi.
02:43In Karnataka, Congress leaders gathered near the Gandhi statue at a Suvarna Sauda in Baila Gavi,
02:49condemning the central government's political vendetta over the National Herald case.
02:53BJP, they wanted to keep us busy, they wanted to file fall cases, money laundering cases,
03:01what money laundering, whether they have found cash, there is no money laundering.
03:06Today a justice has been prevailed.
03:09The Congress claims that allegations of money laundering and illegal property transfer were baseless.
03:14The BJP, however, termed the court order dismissing the ED charge sheet to be a temporary relief,
03:41insisting that the final verdict will go against the Gandhis.
03:46This is temporary to feel the peace of their lives.
03:50But when the final decision comes, the Congress leaders, who have been forced to fight,
03:56this final decision will be taken away.
03:59With the court verdict delivering the Gandhis temporary relief,
04:03the political battle lines are drawn sharper than ever.
04:05Protests, claims and counterclaims continue,
04:09keeping the National Herald saga at the centre of India's political storm.
04:14With Piyush Mishra in Delhi, Bureau Report, India Today.
04:17And let me bring in the guests who are joining us now.
04:21Sanjay Hager, senior advocate of the Supreme Court, joins us.
04:25We have Neerja Chaudhary, senior journalist and political analyst,
04:28and two politicians, Adil Singh Bhoparai and R.P. Singh.
04:33Let's first put this in context in terms of the political fight which is playing out.
04:38R.P. Singh, starting with you.
04:40The Congress says that the senior leadership of the BJP and the government must apologise
04:46for what has been a persistent and a consistent political vendetta
04:53and misuse of agencies which has been done against Sonia and Rahul Gandhi.
05:04Maria, first, let's understand the background of the case.
05:06The case started on a private complaint launched in January 2013
05:11by Mr. Subramaniam Swamy in the court,
05:14not by the police or not by the ED or not by any other agency of the government.
05:20And the case was proceeding in the court.
05:22And what did the court say recently about the relief they got?
05:28The court said that the case is not a political vendetta
05:32because if it was so, then the court could have quashed it like Bhajan Lal judgment case.
05:37It never quashed the case.
05:39Only thing is, there's a technical thing which has happened.
05:42It's a procedural technical thing.
05:44The case is still on.
05:46This is one PMLA case.
05:48There's other case which is of the cheating under 420
05:51and other acts of the Constitution.
05:54The case is still on and that also.
05:55The plea is not maintainable.
05:59Isn't that enough vindication of what the Congress has been saying?
06:03That the plea is not maintainable is what the court has said.
06:08Isn't that what the Congress says?
06:10Maria, in that case,
06:12okay, Maria, in that case,
06:14the court should have quashed the case.
06:16They should have said,
06:17they should have thrown the case in the dustbin and said,
06:18no, we shouldn't have proceeded to the case.
06:20The court didn't say so.
06:22They are still out on bail.
06:23Well, what is plea is not maintainable
06:26because it has not been done.
06:28This is essentially a temporary or an interim relief.
06:31Okay.
06:31So it's a technical issue, Adil Singh Bhopurai.
06:34Not much of a relief.
06:35Or should I say interim relief only?
06:38Maria, I have great respect for R.P. Singh Ji,
06:40but I pity him today
06:41because he's defending the indefensible.
06:44The complaint has been dismissed.
06:46I repeat, the complaint has been dismissed.
06:50An ED complaint is akin to a charge sheet
06:52which has been dismissed by a competent court.
06:55Now, please understand how the PMLA functions.
06:58The PMLA functions,
06:59the ED can register in ECIR
07:01if there is a predicate scheduled offence.
07:04In this case,
07:05the special judge has said
07:06that there is no predicate FIR.
07:08If there was no predicate FIR,
07:11the ED had no authority or jurisdiction
07:13to register in ECIR
07:15and consequentially file a complaint.
07:17So, therefore, my first submission,
07:20the actions of the ED
07:22were sheer vendetta.
07:25This was nothing but a witch hunt
07:27to harass the Congress leadership.
07:29Point number one.
07:30Point number two,
07:31much is said about this EOWFIR.
07:34This belated EOWFIR
07:36after 10 years,
07:38after we put forth before the special court
07:40that the ED in the first place
07:42does not have jurisdiction,
07:43is again an act of vendetta.
07:46And the Congress party
07:47at an appropriate time and stage
07:48will exercise its legal remedies.
07:50Number three,
07:51which is the political point.
07:53I think the BJP
07:54and more importantly,
07:55the prime minister
07:56and the home minister
07:57must understand
07:58that this politics of vendetta
08:00will take them nowhere.
08:02We are extremely grateful to the court.
08:04It is a vindication.
08:06It is a vindication
08:07that a witch hunt was launched
08:08against the Congress leadership
08:10and we have emerged victorious.
08:13We have emerged victorious
08:14because the court
08:15in the very first place said,
08:17let alone going into
08:18the merits of the allegations,
08:19the court said that...
08:21Let me also bring you
08:22Sanjay Hegre
08:22because he understands
08:24the legalese
08:25perhaps better than most
08:27on this panel.
08:28So Sanjay Hegre,
08:29you know,
08:30let's understand it
08:31from the legal point of view.
08:32Is this interim relief
08:34as the BJP says
08:36or should it be seen
08:38as, you know,
08:40the court
08:41also sending a message
08:43to investigating agencies
08:45that there is
08:46a great degree of bias
08:47in which the investigations
08:48have been conducted so far?
08:50And my third question
08:51also to you, sir,
08:52would be
08:52that does it set a precedent?
08:56Well,
08:57it set a precedent
08:59in as much as
09:00the court
09:01has basically ruled
09:03the ED cannot proceed
09:05in the absence
09:06of a predicate offence.
09:08Just let me
09:09explain it to you.
09:11If you have committed
09:12a crime
09:13and then
09:14you have the proceeds
09:15of crime
09:16which you have laundered,
09:18that is when the ED
09:19comes in
09:20in a money laundering case.
09:22There has to be
09:23the underlying crime.
09:24Now,
09:25is there an underlying crime?
09:27What do you base it on?
09:29On the fact that
09:30Mr. Subramaniam Swami
09:31has made a complaint.
09:33That,
09:34I can make a complaint
09:36against you.
09:36Does that make it a crime?
09:38Then a court
09:39would have to finally
09:40rule upon the complaint
09:42before the ED
09:44could then proceed.
09:45That has not happened.
09:47The ED,
09:49there is now
09:50an EOW second FIR
09:51which Adil spoke about.
09:53On that FIR
09:54there may be
09:55other proceedings,
09:56there might be
09:57an investigation
09:58which is going on.
09:59So the court says
10:00I will not get into it now.
10:02for the moment
10:03you do not have
10:04an underlying
10:05predicate offence.
10:06Therefore,
10:07you have no ED case.
10:09Therefore,
10:09I am not taking
10:10cognizance
10:11of your ED complaint.
10:13That's precisely
10:14where the situation
10:16stands.
10:17If there is no foundation,
10:19you cannot build
10:20the superstructure
10:21of an ED case.
10:22Okay.
10:26Okay.
10:26So then in that case,
10:27Neerja Chaudhary,
10:28is the Congress
10:30then right
10:30to claim vindication?
10:32You know,
10:33it was,
10:33National Herald case
10:34has always been seen
10:36as like an albatross
10:37around the Congress
10:39leadership.
10:40With this kind of
10:42relief coming in
10:43from a Delhi court,
10:45how does it
10:46really play out
10:48in terms of narrative?
10:49I think that's
10:52where the story lies.
10:55Who will be able
10:56to build the narrative
10:57in their favor?
10:58Clearly,
10:59the BJP is on the
11:00defensive on this one.
11:02And as,
11:03I think it was
11:03Abhishek Manu Singhvi
11:05who pointed out
11:06that taking
11:07cognizance of a matter
11:09is a very basic level
11:11at which everything
11:12starts.
11:13So if the court
11:14hasn't taken
11:14cognizance of it,
11:16then it's a weak case
11:18is the argument
11:19he was making.
11:20Now,
11:20this does not mean
11:21that the court
11:22has given them
11:23a clean sheet.
11:25There,
11:25it's absolutely right.
11:27Will the ED
11:28continue with the
11:29investigation,
11:30with other aspects
11:31of the investigation
11:32and the case continue?
11:34Obviously,
11:34they will continue.
11:36And if it is
11:36a technicality,
11:37then the technicality
11:39will be corrected.
11:40And so all
11:42that we need to do.
11:43But the more
11:44important question
11:45is that the Gandhi
11:47family, Rahul Gandhi
11:48and Sonia Gandhi
11:49have got relief
11:50from the court
11:51in the National Herald
11:52case where they
11:53were charged
11:54of money laundering,
11:55a very serious
11:56offence.
11:57And that is
11:58the narrative,
11:59that is the
12:00political benefit.
12:01It's good news
12:02for the Congress
12:03Party and the Gandhi
12:04family after a
12:05very, very long
12:06time.
12:07Now, much will
12:08depend on how
12:09they use this
12:10to put the
12:12BJP on the
12:13dock,
12:13I won't say
12:14misuse because
12:15we don't know
12:16that,
12:16but certainly
12:17the selective
12:18use of the
12:19agencies against
12:21those who are
12:22opposed to the
12:23ruling dispensation.
12:24That we've seen
12:25over the years.
12:26And that people
12:27have noted also.
12:28So how does
12:29the Congress
12:30now build on
12:31that narrative?
12:34You know,
12:35the fact is that
12:36the case has been
12:36ongoing for years.
12:38Adil, that is the
12:39question to you.
12:39Then how is the
12:41Congress really
12:42viewing this from
12:43the point of
12:44going beyond
12:45political optics?
12:47Maria, I need
12:48to first dispel
12:49a misconception
12:51which Honourable
12:53Neerja Ji had
12:54alluded to.
12:55The courts
12:56don't give
12:56clean chits.
12:58The court
12:58either takes
12:59cognizance in
13:00issue summons
13:01or the court
13:02rejects taking
13:03cognizance.
13:04Rejection of
13:05taking cognizance
13:06means that the
13:07prosecution has
13:08not even been
13:09able to surpass
13:10or meet the
13:11first threshold
13:12of a prima
13:13fasciae case.
13:14In other words,
13:15if a court of
13:16law rejects
13:17cognizance,
13:18the court is
13:19essentially saying
13:20you do not
13:21even meet the
13:22first parameter
13:23of a prima
13:23fasciae case.
13:25This is point
13:25number one.
13:26Point number two,
13:27let me take a deep
13:29dive into the
13:29merits of the
13:30allegations.
13:31Young Indian,
13:32and this is very
13:33important for the
13:34benefit of your
13:34viewpoints.
13:35Young Indian is a
13:37Section 25 company.
13:39What is a Section 25
13:40company?
13:41A Section 25 company
13:43means that no
13:44shareholder can
13:45receive any
13:46remuneration for
13:48dividend.
13:49In other words,
13:50if Maria,
13:51Shaquille,
13:51and Adal Bhoparai
13:52tomorrow become a
13:53director or a
13:54shareholder of a
13:55Section 25 company,
13:57Maria, you and I
13:58will not get a
13:59single penny because
14:00it is for a not
14:02for profit purpose.
14:04Number two,
14:05number three,
14:06finally the BJP's
14:08witch hunt has
14:08come to an end.
14:10Of course, we are
14:11certain the BJP is
14:12driven by this
14:13politics of
14:13vendetta that they
14:14will not stop.
14:16But today we are
14:17grateful, truth has
14:18prevailed, and this
14:19is actually a slap
14:21on the face of all
14:22those who propound
14:23the politics of
14:24vendetta in this
14:25country.
14:27Okay, so then in
14:28that case, does
14:29the BJP see this
14:31as some kind of
14:33temporary setback
14:34because this
14:35narrative of
14:35corruption against
14:36the top leadership
14:38of the Congress
14:39has been something
14:40that you have
14:40been using
14:42relentlessly for
14:44all these years?
14:46RPC.
14:48Maria, where has
14:50court told us
14:52or told the
14:53government or
14:53told the
14:54ED agency or
14:55told any
14:55agency to stop
14:56investigation?
14:58Nowhere, the
14:59investigation is
15:00still on.
15:02So, I don't
15:03understand what
15:04are they jumping
15:05on and why is
15:07NIRJA supporting
15:08them?
15:08Fact is that how
15:10can you own a
15:11company?
15:12The man was
15:12saying that,
15:12Adil Bhopalai,
15:14very senior lawyer
15:15also, was saying
15:15that the companies
15:17are non-profitable
15:18companies or
15:19probably will not
15:20make any money,
15:21money will go to
15:22any owners.
15:22are they saying
15:25there is a
15:25problem with
15:26your audio,
15:26you will have
15:27to fix that
15:27because I think
15:28there is a call
15:29that is coming
15:29so please
15:30disconnect that
15:30and continue
15:31with your answer.
15:37Maria, can you
15:38hear me now?
15:39Okay.
15:41Yes, please,
15:42this is better.
15:42Okay, Sanjay
15:50Higre, many
15:55would say that
15:56the process in
15:56itself is a
15:57punishment in ED
15:58cases.
16:00Absolutely.
16:02Because the
16:02process also means
16:03that if the ED
16:04were to pick you
16:05up and put you
16:06in jail, then it
16:08would be very
16:08difficult for any
16:10court to grant
16:10you bail because
16:11the twin conditions
16:12would have to
16:13be met.
16:14Therefore, the
16:15threat of an ED
16:16raid and an
16:16arrest always is
16:18a very huge
16:19swore.
16:19You have had
16:20several politicians
16:21in several other
16:23parties saying,
16:24oh, we have to
16:25go over to the
16:26other side because
16:26otherwise the ED
16:27will raid us and
16:28we cannot sleep.
16:30So today, as of
16:32today, the threat
16:33of ED action in
16:35the National
16:35Herald case no
16:37longer exists for
16:39the moment.
16:40Yes, Mr.
16:40Mr.
16:41R.P.
16:42Singh is right.
16:43Investigations will
16:44go on if in the
16:45predicate case, which
16:47is if in the
16:48underlying case, then
16:50there happens to be a
16:52charge sheet or it
16:53gets to the charge
16:54sheet stage, maybe the
16:56ED can then file a
16:57fresh complaint.
16:58That's a different
16:59thing.
17:00But that's much in the
17:00future.
17:01For the moment, the
17:02ED has been defanged
17:03in this case.
17:04Okay, so ED has
17:08been defanged, but
17:09the charge which
17:10has been placed
17:12against, yes, sir,
17:13yes, the charge
17:15against the BJP has
17:18been of misuse of
17:19government agencies,
17:21almost using it
17:22against your
17:23opposition parties.
17:24For so many years
17:25that you have been
17:26in power under
17:27Prime Minister Modi,
17:28that is one charge
17:29which has been
17:30repeatedly used
17:31against you, R.P.
17:33saying, but with
17:35this kind of relief
17:36coming in for the
17:37Gandhis, doesn't it
17:40also mean that this
17:41boogie of corruption
17:43which was raised
17:44repeatedly doesn't
17:46really hold anymore?
17:51Maria, first, let's
17:52understand, this case
17:53started way back in
17:54January 2013 when
17:55UPA, Mrs. Gandhi,
17:57was running the
17:58regime.
17:59One.
18:00Secondly, again,
18:01Mr. Hattie also
18:02said that the case is
18:03not over, the
18:03investigation is not
18:04over.
18:06Thirdly, can you
18:07tell me one instance
18:08where without spending
18:09a penny from your
18:10pocket you own a
18:11company of 2,000
18:11crore rupees, although
18:12it might be a
18:13non-profitable
18:14company, but still
18:15the owners of that
18:16company are Sonia
18:17Gandhi and Rahul
18:18Gandhi.
18:18And how did that
18:19money came in that
18:20one crore rupees
18:21was rooted through
18:22from some company
18:22named Dotex in
18:23Calcutta and
18:25re-rooted to
18:27Young India and
18:29Young India out of
18:30that one crore
18:30rupees gave 50
18:32lakh rupees to own
18:33asset worth
18:3320,000, 2,000 crore
18:35rupees.
18:36And also, if there
18:37were an asset worth
18:372,000 crore rupees
18:38and the loan worth
18:41something like 90
18:41crore rupees, they
18:43could have solely
18:44loaned the asset of
18:4590 crore rupees and
18:46still made 1,900
18:48crore rupees for
18:48that company.
18:50This is all, we all
18:51know this is all a
18:52fraud being played.
18:53It's a matter of
18:54time.
18:54It is ultimately the
19:00investigation which
19:02will lead to this and
19:05there is a good case
19:07in this.
19:07point that has been made
19:08by the lawyer on this
19:09show, Sanjay Hegde.
19:11You are saying that
19:12it's a matter of time.
19:13All right.
19:14All right.
19:14All that is fine.
19:16But what has been said
19:17by Sanjay Hegde becomes
19:18important that the
19:20entire ED case has
19:21been perhaps defanged.
19:23Before I give in the
19:24last word to Neerja
19:25Chaudhary on the show
19:26tonight, Adil, please
19:27go ahead.
19:2830 seconds to you.
19:31Marja, this is a
19:32testament to BJP's
19:33vendetta politics.
19:34Of course, they went
19:36after our leadership.
19:37But the BJP misused
19:39agencies not just
19:40against the Congress
19:41but against every
19:42opposition political
19:43party.
19:44They use the pressure,
19:45they use this as a
19:46sword to either poach
19:48MLAs, to destabilize
19:49governments, to get
19:50people on their side
19:52or at times even to
19:53pressurize business
19:55people so that they
19:56can perhaps hold
19:58parlays with the
19:58Ambani's and the
19:59Adani's.
20:00There are instances
20:00with relation to that
20:01also.
20:02But today, this is
20:03historic.
20:04because a special
20:06court, a court of law,
20:08a competent court of
20:09jurisdiction has
20:10rejected the ED
20:12complaint on the
20:14ground that it does
20:15not even meet the
20:16prima facie test.
20:19I think the BJP has
20:20a lot of soul
20:20searching to do and
20:21they should stop this
20:22politics of vendetta
20:23forthwith.
20:27Okay.
20:28What does it do to
20:29the public's perception?
20:31Point, please.
20:31And almost.
20:34Yes, 30 seconds and
20:36then Neerja.
20:38Go ahead, R.P.
20:39Singh.
20:40Well, I have simple
20:41one thing, simply one
20:43thing to say.
20:44Please tell us, is the
20:45case being coerced by the
20:48court or not?
20:49If not, then the case is
20:51still on.
20:52And there is no
20:53vendetta in this.
20:53In fact, as I told you,
20:55please tell me one
20:56person who can own a
20:58company worth 2,000
20:59crore rupees without
21:00spending a penny from
21:01their pocket.
21:01And thank you for
21:02acknowledging the
21:03courts today.
21:04Because this party has
21:05been, this party has
21:07been showing the
21:09court.
21:09In the public court, what
21:14does it do now to the
21:16perception around the
21:18Gandhis?
21:19Neerja.
21:20I think you may be
21:22right.
21:22You see the word you
21:23used, the case has been,
21:26ED case has been
21:27defanged, diluted, even
21:29though it will continue.
21:31But political level, you
21:33know, the question mark in
21:34people's mind about
21:36National Herald, kya
21:37ghapla huwa ismeh, now
21:39will get diluted also.
21:41The perception will be
21:43that the court has
21:44found no cognizance.
21:46And that does make a
21:47difference.
21:48But as I said earlier,
21:49much will depend on how
21:51the Congress Party
21:52shapes this narrative.
21:56Okay.
21:57What it does, what does
21:59the Congress Party do
22:00from here onwards becomes
22:01important now.
22:03Although they have taken
22:04to the streets, just as
22:05there were protests
22:06inside Sonsad as well
22:08because the winter
22:09session of Parliament
22:10is on.
22:12Adil Singh Boparai,
22:13R.P. Singh, Neerja
22:15Chaudhary and Sanjay
22:16Hager, really appreciate
22:17your time.
22:17Thank you for joining us
22:18on this edition of
22:20NewsTrack.
22:20Thanks so much for
22:21watching.
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