- 2 months ago
Willard and Dibs continue to discuss the future of the NFL preseason, explain why it's impossible to protect NFL players from injuries at any point, and more.
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00:00Let me admit something as to why this is starting to hit me the way that it is.
00:04We just had a texter text in, 510, thank you for listening.
00:07Okay, Mark.
00:07A little sarcastic, but that's all right.
00:09How can colleges have no preseason games but play fine week one?
00:13I used to use that same argument.
00:16It's not an unfair argument, but I've kind of backed off of it a little bit
00:19because I just don't think the two are all that comparable.
00:23Like, I just, these are, I know it's the same sport,
00:27but they're very different, and the majority of great teams in college football,
00:32the majority, I know there are some exceptions,
00:35but the majority don't have any preseason games,
00:38and then they start with the Citadel, which is a glorified preseason game
00:43because what you're not dealing with in college are athletes that are the same
00:48as the teams that you play, but you are in the NFL.
00:51Plus, I think things are much, much more complex in the way things are kind of
00:58delegated throughout a staff.
01:01That's actually what Herm Edwards told us yesterday.
01:03He said the preseason games are very much about the staff.
01:08I think there tends to be, this might just be my perception,
01:11I think there's a lot more turnover from year to year in the NFL than there is
01:15collegiately.
01:15I know that's changing in the age of NIL, but from coaches to players, et cetera,
01:20I think that there's more to deal with in the NFL,
01:24and I'm not sitting here saying that starters should be running around out there
01:28during August.
01:29Here's what I am saying.
01:31I think that we, and I am one of the most guilty people I know,
01:35we have fallen in to the 2026, or even call it 2018, or 19, or 20, or whatever,
01:42the modern era, we have fallen into the trap.
01:45We do this as parents, we do this as spouses, and we do it as sports fans.
01:52We're overprotective.
01:54We try to do everything for everyone.
01:57And like I'm looking at you, and you've got an almost four-year-old daughter.
02:01And you, I know, have had kids from a previous marriage, but your wife has not.
02:09And I can promise you, and this is not a criticism,
02:13but the two of you will parent that girl very differently than you were parented.
02:18And you will try to protect her from all kinds of things that, quite frankly,
02:23I could argue you either, A, may not be able to protect her from,
02:27or maybe you shouldn't, because people need to go out in the world
02:31and take some lumps sometimes.
02:33It's funny you say that, because I went to the park where they're two days ago,
02:36and, you know, I sit back about 10 or 15 feet away.
02:40She's on the structure, and she's doing what she's doing.
02:42I have eyes on her, but about 80% of the other parents or nannies
02:47are within four to five feet of their child who's two or three or four.
02:52And, you know, first of all, what are you going to do if little Timmy slips and falls
02:56and you're right there?
02:57Like, you're just going to overreact, and then they're going to cry.
03:00And so I'm a little bit more of, like, a removed, withdrawn father
03:05because I am older, and I've been through it once or twice before.
03:07And so, yeah, I know exactly what you're saying.
03:10And you're not wrong.
03:11And as we get further down the road, and it's funny you talked about me being,
03:14quote, parented.
03:16I was not parented.
03:17At all.
03:18I was fed and kind of clothed, and, like, if I showed up for dinner, I got dinner.
03:25There's no judgment here.
03:26I was awful at this.
03:27I still am.
03:29Jude started seventh grade today.
03:31He still gets up on every school morning.
03:33All right, well, what's for breakfast, Dad?
03:38And big dummy me, you want pancakes this morning?
03:41I'll go make pancakes.
03:42And I go make pancakes.
03:44Because that's who I am, and it's what I love to do.
03:47And, yes, at times, it causes problems because there's a dependency there that maybe they
03:53could have moved through a little bit earlier in life than I allow them to.
03:58It's a little codependency because you want them to depend on you, you know?
04:02No doubt.
04:02I'm totally with you.
04:03Yeah.
04:04So I very much, to me, this is an analogy with the way I hear people watching sports now.
04:10You can't protect them.
04:12You can't do it.
04:14You can try all you want.
04:16It's not going to work.
04:19Like, plenty of dudes, and I can give you the list, have ended up on IR this year when
04:24no one touched them.
04:26In fact, the first thing that we often, what's the worst hyphenated word in all of injuries
04:33in sports?
04:35Non-contact injury.
04:37Non-contact.
04:37Non-contact.
04:38So what on earth are you protecting them from?
04:42Oh, we can't have joint practices.
04:43We can't play them in games.
04:45Why?
04:46Well, because there's too much contact.
04:48Well, what's the worst injury?
04:50Non-contact.
04:51You can do this simply by changing direction.
04:55In fact, that's often what it is.
04:57And it's happening in practice constantly.
05:00So I'm with Lewis Riddick.
05:02And I just very much think that, and I'm trying to get on a soapbox here, but I think that
05:07this is kind of who we've become.
05:10We really, we really, I had a cat as a kid.
05:14His name was Butterscotch.
05:15We need more dogs.
05:17When we went to Meow, we had one of them to Meow.
05:21And you know what we would do?
05:22We loved Butterscotch.
05:23Butterscotch was the greatest cat I've ever known.
05:26He was a lap cat.
05:27He was so fun.
05:29He was social.
05:30We don't need a bunch of cats in here.
05:32Meow.
05:32No, we had one.
05:33Meow.
05:33Like a cat.
05:34He likes, I don't know if he likes.
05:36I don't need a little cat.
05:37I liked to play football with him.
05:38Butterscotch was being a little cat.
05:41What's going on?
05:41I said, there's a cat in the house.
05:42Cat in the house?
05:43I said, yeah, there's a cat in the house.
05:44Yeah.
05:44He was the running back.
05:45I was the linebacker.
05:47I was like Fred Warner.
05:48And I trained him.
05:50People think you can't train cats.
05:51You can.
05:53My cat saw me get down on all fours like I was going to tackle him, and he would fall
05:59over on purpose.
06:00That was his way of saying, I don't like this game.
06:03But I kept playing it because I was a kid.
06:05And this is what I did with my cat.
06:07So you were Michael Strahan, and he was Brett Favre.
06:11Brett Favre.
06:11Yeah, exactly.
06:12That's a perfect picture.
06:14Butterscotch would just fall down so you could get the cat record?
06:17Totally.
06:18Totally.
06:18And I did.
06:19But I bring the cat up because you know what we did with the cat?
06:23When he wanted to leave the house, see you, dude.
06:27See you.
06:28And we didn't put an eye tag on him.
06:30They didn't exist.
06:31He went wherever the hell he went.
06:34He's a cat.
06:35And then he came back.
06:36Right.
06:36For dinner.
06:37And he came in, and we would watch shows together.
06:40We don't need no meow.
06:41We don't need no cats.
06:43Rinse for Pete tomorrow.
06:44We didn't try.
06:45You wouldn't even think of doing that now.
06:48I don't think.
06:50Lovely Christy, they've got a cat.
06:53The cat's not even loud in the backyard.
06:56Yeah.
06:56Cliff the cat.
06:57The legendary Cliff that my ex-wife took number one overall in the divorce draft.
07:03He is a free-range cat.
07:06I have no idea where he goes.
07:08I do know that every eight or nine days he comes back with a bird or a mouse or both
07:14if it's been a good day.
07:15Butterscotch did the same thing.
07:17And they would love to parade him around.
07:19They think they're bringing you a gift.
07:20Like, I don't want that.
07:21It's just like a fruitcake.
07:23Don't bring me that, please.
07:24Now, you want to see a cat prance proudly?
07:28This dude comes back like bird in mouth.
07:30Like, look at me.
07:31Look what I've done.
07:32And he actually stalks.
07:34There's every year there's like a little nest in the backyard where Mama Bird is thinking, I'm okay.
07:40I'm up here.
07:41And Cliff will just sit there and wait until Mama Bird flies out to get some worms or whatever.
07:45And then Cliff is like, you don't need more dogs.
07:49You need me.
07:50That's right.
07:51It's no different than when the kids bring home that artwork from third grade.
07:54Oh, for me?
07:58Let's put it in the fridge.
07:59It's beautiful.
08:00You'll wait until they go to bed and it's in the recycle bin.
08:03Anyway.
08:04That's it.
08:04We live in an area that's got a lot of wildlife.
08:06So I understand why my lovely wife and her daughter do not let the cat outside.
08:10They may never see the cat again.
08:12I understand.
08:13But this is what I know.
08:15I don't have a cat anymore.
08:16But this is what I know a lot of families, this is how you do it now.
08:20You don't let the animals out because we have to protect everyone from everything.
08:27And it just popped into my head as I was listening.
08:31First of all, as I read Louis Riddick yesterday, and I'm thinking about yet another August where no matter how
08:38much we shave off of this, the takes are going to be the same again next August.
08:44We've got Herm Edwards.
08:45We had six preseason games.
08:46Then we went to five.
08:47Then we went to four.
08:48Now we're down to three.
08:50A lot of people think as soon as we go to an 18-game schedule, it's going to go down
08:53to two.
08:54Can we get to zero?
08:56Probably.
08:56We probably will.
08:58Will it help?
08:58My opinion, no.
09:00No.
09:01Actually, it might make it worse.
09:04I have no idea.
09:05I'm not a doctor.
09:06I don't study the science.
09:07I have no idea what's going to happen, but I do not believe that the more we try to trim
09:14all this stuff away because it frustrates us when players get hurt, I don't think there's any way to protect
09:19them.
09:20Well, I mean, you could protect them to the extent that they wouldn't be getting hurt in these meaningless preseason
09:25games.
09:25And I know a practice can happen and a guy can get hurt in practice, and that's just part of
09:30what happens when you are a pro football player.
09:33But when you have these games that are preseason games and you play a guy and he goes out there
09:37and he gets hurt in a preseason game, that doesn't really matter.
09:40And, yeah, you can sharpen up your tools and you can develop that callus and all the rest of it.
09:45And so there's value in that.
09:47But beyond that part of it, like the preseason games, honestly, if they were that important, these guys would play
09:54more of them.
09:54We just got a text that you'll enjoy, 510.
09:57The wife has three cats, and they've only sniffed outside in a carrier.
10:03Right.
10:05And honestly, and I'm not trying to judge other cat owners, but first of all, if you declaw your cat,
10:14that is cruel and unusual.
10:15Yeah, that's taking their defenses away.
10:17Exactly.
10:18Well, some people will declaw the cat and have them be an indoor cat.
10:21That's right.
10:21And that, to me, is like completely not dehumanizing because it's not a human, but you're taking away the actual
10:29essence of being a cat.
10:30And so if you have a cat and you don't allow them to be outside, then, to me, you're not
10:36doing it right as a cat owner.
10:37Well, I mean, I do think there are circumstances that are different.
10:41First of all, the cat, the characteristics of the cat.
10:44I do think where you live matters.
10:46You've got a bunch of coyotes running around.
10:47Sure.
10:48You know what I mean?
10:49Sure.
10:49So I'm not here to judge.
10:51I'm just observing.
10:52And I think that that's a piece of what has become the conversation in football, especially.
10:59We are ground zero for this.
11:00We are the substation of the entire injury conversation in football because we are more, we feel more affected by
11:09it.
11:09We feel more triggered by it, and so there's this constant, at least what I hear, there's either just people
11:16who want to express constant concern or all kinds of different ideas on how you can fix this.
11:25You can move your practice facility.
11:27You can practice less.
11:29You can practice in a different way.
11:31You can fire your trainer and then fire him again the next year if it doesn't go better.
11:36You can do all of these things.
11:38And my opinion is you're still not going to stop injuries.
11:41It's not going to stop.
11:43You're not going to stop the injuries, but you can lessen the chance that you have injuries during a time
11:48that is really not going to matter.
11:50Maybe.
11:51And that, to me, is the bigger issue.
11:52Do you know that for a fact?
11:53No, you don't.
11:54And you could have a guy not play at all.
11:56Like, let's just talk about, you know, Trent Williams, who he's healthy, and he's not going to play preseason.
12:02I don't know if he's doing a lot of joint practices, and you're going to go ahead and kid glove
12:05him.
12:06And you get to week one, and he might pop a hammy.
12:09And it might be because he didn't actually play during the preseason.
12:12So, to your point, like, just because you bubble wrap a guy doesn't mean that he's going to be guaranteed
12:17to not get hurt.
12:18No, I mean, football players will tell us they're guaranteed to get hurt.
12:23Right?
12:24What's the injury rate by week 17?
12:26You say 100%.
12:27100%.
12:28And you're probably not wrong.
12:29Yeah.
12:30Now, Trent does practice.
12:32And to me, that might be a little bit more.
12:35He's a special one because one thing, and if you're a Warrior fan, you know this.
12:39Like, and actually, just if you're a human being, and you know this, if you're a human being that's either
12:45had his or her 30th birthday, or 40th birthday, or 50th birthday, just the matter of age will suggest that
12:56your injury chances go way up.
12:59So, with Trent Williams, he is much older, much more of an advanced NFL age, number one.
13:07He's also carrying around north of 300 pounds.
13:11So, I don't really make a distinction between what it is Trent's doing.
13:17I'm just making a distinction into whether he's doing anything at all.
13:20So, what I'm saying by that is I don't think there's any more chance that he gets hurt in a
13:25preseason game than in a practice.
13:28I mean, you're engaging a defender either way.
13:31You're activating your body.
13:33You're changing directions.
13:34You're doing all of this at age 38 or whatever he is.
13:38And so, I just, I don't know if I've seen any data that's going to tell me joint practices and
13:45preseason games are actually more dangerous than regular practices.
13:50I mean, he's not wearing the quarterback jersey.
13:53You can touch him.
13:54You can hit him.
13:55You can knock him around.
13:57He's doing reps with Niner defenders.
13:59I don't see that as being very different than doing reps with Charger defenders.
14:02I think it's different to the extent that, you know, you're going against your teammate.
14:06And your teammate might be a little more aware of who you are and how old you are.
14:10And not that they're going to go easy on you because you're Trent Williams.
14:13But the other team, like the Chargers, they're not going to even really care who they're going against.
14:18It's going to be more intense.
14:19And again, we are kind of splitting hairs.
14:22I think the bigger question for me is what's the value of going through all of this?
14:27And for me, the value is finding out your twos and your threes, who actually is good enough to make
14:33the team, not your ones.
14:34I can't answer that.
14:36Only the people who do it can answer that.
14:39And every single time you and I or any other show we've done, whenever we have people on who do
14:45this, they swear there's value.
14:48Have you ever had a coach?
14:49Have you ever heard a coach sniff around the idea of, yeah, we really don't need to do this?
14:55No, but there's different value for different teams.
14:58Like, the Rams will not play a lot of their guys ever at all.
15:02And, you know, Buffalo had Josh Allen play two series in the opener.
15:05Very specific group, though.
15:07I think McVay has gotten this reputation that he doesn't play anybody, which is not true.
15:11But he doesn't play his top high-profile guys.
15:14Very specific guys.
15:15And again, with Matt Stafford, we're talking about someone who is the same age as Trent Williams, I think.
15:19So we're talking about somebody who's much older.
15:22Or, you know, if Aaron Donald does come back, same thing.
15:27Same thing.
15:27They're going to be very, very easy there.
15:30Devontae Adams, advanced age.
15:34But I don't know that he's sitting everybody all the time.
15:40And, you know, same thing like joint practices.
15:44Those guys, they participate.
15:46The Rams participate in joint practices.
15:48Even the good ones, to a certain degree.
15:51So, I understand where you're coming from.
15:53I think it's, this is what we've seen health groups do in sports now.
15:58They kind of have almost an individual plan for every player.
16:02I know the Warriors do.
16:04They've spoken about it.
16:06Like, they'll sit down at the beginning of the year, in theory, and almost have a blueprint for Steph Curry,
16:11for Al Horford, for Kristaps Porzingis.
16:13They might be able to tell you in October which games they're going to miss in February.
16:18Because there's a lot of science around it.
16:20So, I can't discount what you're saying.
16:22I just think it's different for every player.
16:24It is.
16:24And I do think that as we continue to evolve as a sports science country and, you know, teams start
16:30to figure it out.
16:31I look at the Niners this year and it seems like they're going about their practices a little bit differently.
16:36Where if you've got a little tiny thing, if it's a tweak or if it's tightness or if it's this,
16:42a quad for Evans or if it's a hamstring for Dijon Stribbling, you go ahead and you sit.
16:47You sit for a week and then we'll get back to you.
16:49As opposed to the old school, which is, you know, you can't make the club from the tub.
16:53I think that now teams are being a little bit more hyper aware of, you know, protecting guys early in
16:59the year.