- 2 days ago
An India Today news report features an interview with Cockroach Janata Party founder Abhijeet Deepke following the resignation of Union Education Minister Dharmendra Pradhan.
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00:03Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today, your primetime destination news,
00:07newsmakers, talking points, the big talking point tonight, the Kokruj Janta Party, Amishek
00:13Dhipke in an exclusive interview. Also, it's his first interview after the Jantar Mantar protest
00:20ended. That detailed interview coming up on the news today. But first, as always,
00:25it's time for the nine headlines at nine tonight. There's a big development in the 2020 Delhi
00:33riots probe. Ex-Aap Neta Tahir Hussain sentenced to life in imprisonment in the murder of IB
00:42officer Ankit Sharma Tahir Hussain to challenge the verdict in the high court.
00:52Family of police assaulted on July 20th speak out. Their children appeal for justice over
00:58the assault on police. CJP claims anti-social elements were planted by the BJP and RSS to
01:06discredit their movement. Girl booked in Noida for alleged derogatory remarks against Prime
01:14Minister Narendra Modi. On July 23rd, CJP founder Dipke asked, when will FIRs be filed
01:21against all the BJP netas who have abused women over the years?
01:27Dressed in saffron, independent MP from Bihar, Pappu Yadav, stages of protest in parliament
01:33over Ram Mandir Chanda Chori, Lok Sabha secretariat may take notice of the skit that took place in
01:40the heart of parliament. FCRA bill likely to be tabled in the Lok Sabha on Monday. Centre
01:50plans to tighten rules for NGOs receiving foreign funding. Opposition says bill designed to compromise
01:57independence of NGOs make them beholden to government.
02:06Bangladeshi author Tasleema Nasreen returns to Kolkata nearly two decades after violent protests
02:12forced her to leave the city. Nasreen to attend a cultural event in Kolkata over the weekend.
02:20Vijay's film Jana Nayyuan faces heat amidst Kaveri water, war, theatre showing Tamil Nadu chief minister's
02:28film in Bengaluru vandalised pro-Kanada. Groups call for a Karnataka band on August 13th.
02:39Dehradun dowry, horror, newly-wed teacher found dead just eight months after marriage. She
02:45apologised to parents in a heartbreaking last video. Husband-in-laws are booked.
02:52And Spain battles an unprecedented migrant surge along its Moroccan border. At least 18 people
02:59dead after thousands attempted to enter from North Africa.
03:21Hello and welcome. First today we want to start with a special interview with a newsmaker of the
03:28moment. Someone who's been making the headlines almost every day for the last fortnight.
03:34Earlier today I spoke to Abhijit Dipke who is in Sambhaji Nagar, earlier Aurangabad of the
03:40Kokruj Janta Party. This is his first detailed interview after the protests at Jantar Mantar
03:46led to the resignation of the Union Education Minister Dharmendra Pradhan. Take a look at our
03:54exclusive at the very top. Hello and welcome to this India Today special. Two months ago he was
04:08completely unknown. Two months later he's become one of the most significant public figures in the
04:15country. My guest today is Abhijit Dipke, the founder of the Kokruj Janta Party, who in a way typifies that
04:26old
04:26Hindi saying,
04:28Is desh mein kuch bhi ho sakta hai. Thank you very much Abhijit for joining me there from Sambhaji Nagar,
04:34Aurangabad on the show. I want to ask you, when you put out that tweet, Abhijit, on 16th of May,
04:42what if all the Kokrujis came together after the Chief Justice of India's comments likening
04:48Kokrujis to unemployed youth? Did you expect that one day your movement would result in a union minister
04:57in the Modi government resigning? Honest answer.
05:04Not even in my wildest dreams, sir, I would have imagined that so many people will come out on the
05:10street and that would result in the resignation of the union minister. Not even in my wildest dream,
05:16I would have ever imagined something like this because when we started this, I remember when I
05:22decided to come to India, many of my friends and my sister, my sister even, she was telling me,
05:27what do you think, are you going, do you think that if you go back to India, people will come
05:31out
05:31on the street and you will be able to bring a kind of revolution and I had to tell them
05:36that I am
05:36not delusional, I am nowhere delusional, I am not going there with a, like, I am not going back
05:44thinking that thousands of people will come out on the streets, I am just going back to give a
05:48message that I am not afraid of asking questions to this government and most of all, the biggest
05:53message that I wanted to give is that I am not a national security threat as they were claiming
05:58because I was in the US as a, as an Indian, I was, I went there as an Indian student
06:03and it really
06:05hurt me, it really disappointed me that the nation that I was representing in the US, I was known there
06:12as an Indian and the same nation, the same government was calling me a national security threat and that
06:18is why I chose to come back to country. One question though, Sonam Vangchuk, when you concluded your
06:24movement, you thanked a lot of people, what about Sonam Vangchuk? I didn't hear his name. Has there
06:30been any divide now between CJP and Sonam Vangchuk? No, sir. Is he still a mentor for you or are
06:35you all disappointed because he broke his past without informing you all by taking, by doing a photograph with
06:41JP Nadda and Jeetendra Singh? Are you all still on the same page? Yes, sir. We are still pretty much
06:51on
06:51the same page. I have spoken to him on the call and I am, I want to tell you this.
06:57I was thanking the
06:57students because after the 20th July, this movement belonged to the students of the country. This
07:03movement belonged to the youth and they were the ones who faced the brutal lati charge. But we cannot
07:09forget the sacrifice that Sonam Vangchuk, sir, has made. He risked his life for 26 days. He was on
07:14hunger strike. By risking his own life, he has awakened the nation. By risking his own life, he has brought
07:22this nation on the streets to question the government and without his hunger strike, the resignation of the
07:27education minister wouldn't have been possible. And I personally was requesting him to end his hunger
07:32strike and I was very relieved the day he ended his hunger strike because I was personally requesting him
07:38to end his hunger strike. And I was telling him, sir, you please end your hunger strike. We will continue
07:42our
07:42protest. But were you disappointed?
07:43And we will ensure that this protest will...
07:46Were you disappointed that he was... No, were you disappointed by the photograph of him ending his hunger strike with
07:52BJP leaders?
07:53You were taking on those leaders and he was ending his hunger strike in the company of BJP leaders.
08:07Mr. J.P. Nadda and Jitendra Singh, Sonam Vangchuk was kidnapped in a way by the government because
08:14I wanted to meet him. I was not allowed to meet him. The opposition MPs were trying to meet him.
08:20They were
08:20not allowed to meet him. But how come J.P. Nadda and Jitendra Singh were allowed to meet him?
08:26Why only the BJP members were allowed to meet him and not anybody from the opposition party
08:31and not someone even from the CJP? So he was kidnapped by the government, by the BJP leaders.
08:37And we were very... We were really glad he ended his hunger strike because his life is far too valuable
08:42for this country's future.
08:44Mr. Okay, let's... You know, I'll come back to certain issues later, but I want to understand
08:49what for you was the turning point? You all were on Dharna for almost a month. Suddenly, last Saturday,
08:56you get the news that the minister has resigned. What was the turning point according to you?
09:02Because in the early days, we didn't see large crowds at Jantar Mantar. It was only towards the end,
09:08we saw such large crowds coming. What was the turning point, Abhijit?
09:15Sir, the turning point was the brutality on the 20th July. What the Delhi police did on the
09:21instructions of Amit Shah was really cruel and really brutal. They kind of, you know,
09:27beat up students and even children as young as 12 years old. I have seen a 12-year-old girl
09:34getting
09:34bitten up by a male police officer. And after that, I think that the movement got a whole lot bigger
09:42than be it Sonam sir, be it CJP. It became a movement of the people of the country. And after
09:47that, we saw that in many parts of the country, people started coming out on the streets in support
09:51of the students who were protesting peacefully for a month and who were brutally,
09:56really brutally thrashed by the Delhi police officers.
10:03You know, from that statement, let me pick on that statement. You're saying brutally thrashed
10:07by the Delhi police officer. Now, the Delhi police is doing press conferences where the
10:12police officers who were injured, their family members are coming and saying, look, this protest,
10:17our police officers were injured, anti-social elements entered. Don't, you know, why only are
10:23you focusing on one side of the story? How do you respond to that? Because that criticism is coming
10:28again and again that your protest movement somewhere, according to the Delhi police, got taken over that
10:34day by anti-social elements. Sir, my full sympathies and my prayers are with the police officers who are
10:45injured, who were injured on that day. And I feel more sad because they were attacked by the goons
10:51sent by the BJP. On the night of the 19th July, the Delhi police itself arranged trucks loaded with stones
10:58which were parked near Jantramantar. And they also parked already vandalized van there. And we have seen
11:06the reports how the police is lying about that truck. We were told on 20th July morning that the truck
11:12was of the MCD. Abhi ji, police has denied it. And the debris belonged to a construction.
11:16Police has denied, police has denied, police has denied, police has denied the truck story.
11:21Police is denying the truck story. Police is lying, sir.
11:26Police is lying about it. On the 20th July morning, the police themselves told us that the truck belongs to
11:32MCD. Go on. And I feel sad for the police officers because they were… You're saying that the…
11:44The stones were hurled by the goons sent by the BJP.
11:52Okay. You're saying the stones were hurled by the goons sent by the BJP. And you've also said
11:57that all of this happened on the instructions of Amit Shah, the home minister. Now, there is no
12:02evidence of that. You are echoing what Rahul Gandhi is also saying, you know, that all of this was
12:07done on the instructions of Amit Shah. Do you believe that… I mean, this… There will be those who will
12:12say, Abhi ji Deepke is making these allegations because his movement has now become firmly anti-BJP.
12:18What started off was the resignation of the education minister and the need paper league is now fully
12:24blown anti-BJP, anti-Modi government. Target Amit Shah, target Narendra Modi.
12:35Sir, I have been saying this since day one that some people will be sent in the crowd by the
12:43BJP
12:43because this was not the first time. 20th July was not the first time. I remember on the 10th or
12:4912th
12:50day of the protest. Some people from the BJP came to the protest site. They beaten up some people.
12:56And later they were immediately released by the police. And they also made a video saying that
13:00Abhi ekko marai shamko aakar aurko marunga. And when I asked the police why they are not under arrest,
13:07the police said that we cannot arrest people randomly. If somebody is beating up people so openly and if
13:12after that the police still says that we cannot arrest people randomly, that means that the police have
13:17received clear instructions not to arrest people or the goons sent by the BJP. And who is controlling
13:23the police officer, sir? I am not alleging anything. I am not making any allegations. What I am saying is
13:29plain truth. Who is the Delhi police reporting to? It is reporting to Amit Shah. If Amit Shah is not
13:35aware
13:36of this, then it's his failure, sir. And how can we not speak up against Amit Shah when the children,
13:43the youth of this country was so brutally beaten up by the Delhi police? Are we supposed to stay silent?
13:47Pellet guns were used against students. Some of the students are seriously injured
13:52because of the pellets guns. Why pellet guns were used against students?
14:00You see, the question, Abhijit, will arise is that, as I said, that there will be those listening to this
14:05who will say your entire movement, which was started off, as you said, with the tweet about
14:10cockroaches coming together, which started off with asking for the resignation of the education minister,
14:16has now become an anti-BJP, anti-Modi government. Your comments in the last two, three days,
14:22you have said that the pellet guns were fired on the instructions of Amit Shah, that the police
14:28acted on the instructions of Amit Shah. You've said that the prime minister should maybe vacate
14:33his seat and become an influencer. You are targeting the prime minister every day. You've even gone to
14:38the extent of claiming that during the protests, you were under pressure to switch sides and join the BJP
14:45so that nothing could happen to you. So you're making daily statements now against the BJP.
14:51Is your movement now essentially an anti-BJP, anti-Modi movement?
14:59Sir, I want to ask you, who is in power?
15:03Who is in power? Under whose government the lathe charge was ordered? Under whose government the paper
15:10got leaked? Under whose government more than 20 students had to commit suicide? Which is the
15:16party that is ruling India currently? If we are not going to question the ruling party, who we will
15:20question? If there would have been any other party that would have been ruling India right now,
15:27who would have been at the center, we would have questioned them. But because it's the BJP,
15:32it's the BJP under whose government the paper got leaked which resulted in the suicide of more than 20
15:37students and which did not stop there. They spilled more blood on the streets of Delhi on 20 July.
15:42It was under this government and it happens to be the BJP government. What can we do about it?
15:49Should we not question them? Are they above the country? Are they above the constitution?
15:59The question, Abhijit, is you have every right to question whoever is in power,
16:04but I'll tell you two theories that are coming. One is that Abhijit Deepke is an AAP proxy. One is
16:10that
16:10you are an Aam Admi proxy because you work closely with Aam Admi, particularly with Manish Sisodia
16:15in between 2020 and 22. The other theory is that you are actually, you are put up by the establishment,
16:23by the deep state close to the BJP establishment so that you could become a distraction and you could
16:30perhaps target in a way the Congress's youth vote that Rahul Gandhi had started Chhatro Ki Goonj around the
16:37need paper league with the NSUI. Along comes Abhijit Deepke to in some way divide that vote or maybe be
16:45a distraction from the Ram Mandir Chanda Chori. So you are either being seen by some as an Aam Admi
16:50party proxy because of your past and others are saying you have been used as a distraction by people in
16:57power.
17:02Two things sir. First thing, I have nowhere hide the fact that I did work for the Aam Admi party
17:08in my
17:08past. I did not delete any of my tweets like Raghav Chadha. I did not try to hide it. I
17:14was very honest
17:15and transparent about my past and I had worked for a political party. I had not worked for terrorists or
17:20any terrorist organizations. I don't know when did that become a crime. If I'm 30 years old, I would have
17:26definitely voted for someone being aligned with someone like all of us must have been in some
17:32at some part of our life. So there was nothing wrong in it and this movement has been totally
17:37independent. The protesters, the supporters, the students who were coming at this protest,
17:42they were mostly apolitical. There were thousands and lakhs of people on the streets of Delhi on 20
17:47July. Are you telling me that those were all Aam Admi party supporters? No, they were not.
17:51Don't try to insult the youth in that manner by dismissing them and by limiting them to a certain
17:57political party just because I worked for that political party in my past. And coming to the
18:03second point that I am being established or being set up by the BJP, to that I want to ask,
18:09is that why
18:10the BJP ordered such a brutal lati charge on us? Is that why I was bitten up in Jaipur by
18:17a BJP supporter,
18:18by a BJP member? Is that why the Delhi police on the day the Sonu Mangchuk was picked up from
18:25the
18:25protest site? Is that why the Delhi police bitten me up, dragged me on the street, took away my phone?
18:31Is that why the water supply to Jantar Mantar's washroom was cut off by the BJP government?
18:37On one hand, the BJP government not only stopped our drinking water, they also stopped the water supply
18:44to the washroom. They even tried to stop food supplies at Jantar Mantar. They raided houses of
18:49the people who were donating waters and food to Jantar Mantar. I was slapped at Jaipur by a BJP
18:55supporter. Later, the Delhi police authorities beaten me up when Sonu Mangchuk was picked up from the
19:02protest site. Is that why the mainstream media black like completely ignored us? They didn't cover us for
19:11more than 20 days. If I was being set up by the BJP, I'm telling you, the mainstream media would
19:17have
19:18covered me from day one 24-7, but they did not. The fact that the mainstream media boycotted us
19:24completely, blacked us out completely, is the biggest evidence that this was not supported by the BJP.
19:36You know, because the question arises, yesterday in parliament, also during the debate, some of the
19:43NDA members said that this was a foreign-funded movement. Some are saying foreign-funded,
19:48some are saying Aam Atmi Party funded. Who funded your movement? Let's get this very clear, because
19:53there is a section which went to parliament, Sanjay Jha of the JDU said this was foreign-funded. Others are
19:59saying that your movement is Aam Atmi Party funded. Who funded the movement is a question they are asking.
20:09Sir, first of all, if the people from the ruling party believes that this movement was funded by
20:14foreign powers, then I think this is the clear failure of the Home Minister of the country. Amit Shah
20:20has failed to do his job. How can foreign powers influence Indian protest or Indian political things
20:28when Amit Shah is the Home Minister? It is his failure then. Then question should be asked to Amit Shah.
20:33How come, despite him being the Home Minister, foreign powers were able to control this protest?
20:39The question must be asked to Amit Shah. And coming to the second one, it was not funded by any
20:43political
20:44party, but it was funded by the people of this country. Many of the professors who came to our protest,
20:50they offered, they sponsored the food. And not just the professors, some many prominent doctors who
20:55visited us, provided us, they said that we are going to sponsor the dinner for all the students
21:00who are staying put at Jantar Mantar. And it was not just the doctors and the protesters. Even the water
21:06bottles that were coming at Jantar Mantar, in discreet, some of the police officers who were in support of
21:13us. They said, we don't want to disclose our identity, but we are going to provide you water bottles.
21:18So no one from the Aam Atmi Party, at no stage did the Aam Atmi Party provide you funding, strategy,
21:25resources? No stage? Not true that at any stage, in any form, the Aam Atmi Party got involved with your
21:32movement? Not at all. Not at all, sir. Kejriwal didn't advise you at any stage? The Aam Atmi Party
21:39supported us just the way Shiv Sena... No, not at all. I mean, there were Jamers,
21:44there were Jamers at Jantar Mantar. I was not even able to speak to my parents. How am I supposed
21:49to,
21:49how I can speak to other political leaders? But the Aam Atmi supported this movement the same way the
21:55Shiv Sena did, the Samaj Wadi Party did, the TMC did, the Congress did, and the NCP did. Just
22:01the DMK, and all the CPIs, CPIM.
22:09It's interesting you're using Congress there, because there is a feeling that the Congress stayed
22:13away. Rahul Gandhi did not come to your Jantar Mantar platform. The only one I know who came was
22:19Pawan Kheda came, reached out to Sonam Vangchuk, and at no stage has the Congress leadership mentioned
22:26the Kokhrut Janta Party. They keep saying student protests, youth protests, they do not mention
22:31your party. And one reason for that is, there is a belief that the Congress feels, I believe you
22:36tried to reach out to the Congress, they stayed away. So the Congress seems to believe that you are
22:41an Aam Atmi proxy, or somewhere that you are not to be trusted. How do you respond? Is it true
22:47that the Congress stayed away from your movement, that you reached out to Rahul Gandhi, but he stayed away?
22:55No, actually Pawan Kheda did come to the protest and said that I am coming on behalf of the Congress
23:01Party, and the Congress Party stands with the students' movement. And many of the politicians
23:06from Maharashtra, who belong to the Congress Party, did visit Jantar Mantar. And I think,
23:11sir, we are doing a great disservice to all the students, to all the supporters, who stayed put at
23:17Jantar Mantar for more than 36 days to seek the resignation of the education minister by labelling
23:22them or by labelling me to a certain political party. We cannot dismiss them like that. They
23:27have done a great work. They have made great sacrifices. Many of the students who were at
23:33Jantar Mantar, they fought with their families. Some of them did not even inform their families
23:38that they were at Jantar Mantar. They fought with a big machinery and got a big victory, sir.
23:44Nobody has been able to get a resignation out of this government. But it was the youth of this
23:49country, it were the students who managed to do that. And I think we should give them some credit
23:53for this. Abhijit, you made your views pretty clear on Prime Minister Modi. What are your views
23:58on Rahul Gandhi then? You know, I keep repeating, Rahul Gandhi did not come and share a stage with you.
24:03What are your views on Rahul Gandhi?
24:09Sir, I would like to say that we are here to speak on behalf of the youth and whatever is
24:13going
24:13wrong in the country. I don't have any personal grudges against Narendra Modi. It's just because
24:18he is the Prime Minister. I think that he is responsible for whatever happens in the country.
24:22The day Rahul Gandhi becomes that person or somebody else becomes that person,
24:27it can be whoever. That is the day I will comment on that. But as of today, I believe that
24:32the youth of this country is really disgruntled, disappointed with all the political parties
24:39and somewhere they need to do some course correction if they really want to catch the
24:42imagination of these people. So, what happens to your past criticisms of Rahul Gandhi? Do they still
24:48hold? When you tweeted against Rahul Gandhi, do those tweets still hold where you were critical of him?
24:57Sir, that was my personal opinion. I believe that this movement is much,
25:01much bigger than that. I understand that responsibility. So, nowhere I am going to let
25:05my personal inclination, my personal bias, my personal opinions decide the shape of this movement, sir.
25:12They include ISA students, All India Students Association, associated with CPIML. There are
25:18students, SFI, left unions. Were you all together or is there credit taking now? Do you give them equal
25:24credit? Because Rahul Gandhi was seen with ISA students but not with CJP. I come to it. Are you all
25:30all divided or are you all united?
25:37No, sir, we are not divided at all. All the student organization, I would like to thank them all
25:41because they have done a remarkable job to continue this protest and since day one they have been there.
25:47So, I would like to give them all credit as well. They have been really solid throughout this protest.
25:56You know, I want to ask you though, one of the conditions for withdrawing the protest was the fact
26:01that you wanted all FIRs withdrawn against all students, yet even yesterday zero FIRs have been
26:08filed against those who made abusive remarks. A girl called Ruchika Singh made abusive remarks from
26:13Ghaziabad. Zero FIR against her. There are still FIRs that have not been withdrawn in different states.
26:18There are protesters who are still being called in by the police, detained, questioned.
26:23I mean, in that sense, who is going to speak up from them? You have now claimed victory
26:28because Dharmendra Pradhan has resigned. But what happens to all those students? Who is going to stand
26:33up for them? Sir, we are standing up for them. Our team is in constantly touch with all the students.
26:42And because you know that we are very like a small team, but we are trying our best to reach
26:47out to
26:47all the students. And through your channel, I want to tell them all that we are going to be there
26:51for
26:51you. And whatever legal help is going to be needed, the CJP will provide all legal help. For that, we
26:58are
26:58also consulting with Mr. Kapil Sibbal, who has like said that he will be providing his legal help. And we
27:06are grateful to him. But I want to assure all the students that no, you won't be left alone. We
27:12are going
27:12to be there for you. And we are already in touch with them. Ratna, Saurav are constantly in touch
27:17and constantly trying to get back all the FIs. And it's in the best interest of the government
27:22to take back all the FIs that they have filed against the students who were peacefully protesting.
27:28Because if the government is going to harass the students who were protesting peacefully,
27:33then the government doing a big mistake because these people will come out on the streets.
27:37We will come out on the streets again if they harass the students.
27:44Because there is a feeling that you have left the students in the lurch. I want to be very clear.
27:48If there is still harassment of students, will you go back to protest? Or is your protest over and
27:54you are now looking for a new issue?
27:59Not at all, sir. We are going to stand with the students. And if needed, we are going to hit
28:03the
28:03streets very soon if the government doesn't take back the FIs. And I think this is not true.
28:12We are constantly talking with the government and we are asking them to take back the FIs. And that
28:17is why the government of Bihar, the government of West Bengal have issued those statements. We are
28:22continuously trying. A narrative is going on. Some people are trying to push the narrative that the
28:27CJP has abandoned the students. That's not true at all. We have sent people back home as well. The
28:33people who didn't have the money to go back, we have helped them as well. We have helped the people
28:38who were admitted to the hospital. I have personally visited those people at the hospital. It's just that
28:44my mistake, it's a mistake on our part that we are not seasoned politicians and we were not aware that
28:50we have to get us clicked. We have to carry the camera phones if we are meeting the injured students.
28:55We have to keep the recordings if we are talking to the people to provide them legal help or even
29:00to
29:00provide help them in going back home. We were not recording any of this, but that does not mean
29:06that we are not doing anything for them. We are reaching out to all the people, whoever it is
29:11possible, because many people are reaching out to me as well. And I have personally tried to provide
29:17them help in going back home. I have spoken to people who were raided by the daily police. I have
29:22taken
29:22their contacts. I have spoken to them and I have told them that whatever help is needed, we will
29:27provide you all legal help. Don't you ever think that we are going to leave any student behind.
29:32But it is just that, as I said, that we are new to this. We were not aware that we
29:36need to record
29:37ourselves. We need to click our photos while doing so. That was our mistake.
29:45You know, one of your last words at the protest site on Saturday was,
29:48this is not the end. We will meet again soon. I want to understand, how will you meet? Are you
29:53going to form a political party? Is the CJP now going to become a political party? Are you going
29:58to start now other political agitations or are you going to go back to Boston,
30:02back to your studies? What is Abhijit Deepke now going to do next?
30:10No, I am not going to Boston for sure and coming to the question of forming a political party.
30:15We are not thinking anything on those lines. What we are going to do is that we are going to
30:20remain
30:20a political pressure group. Our fight is going to be political because I believe that everybody needs
30:26to be political in this country. We need to work on political literacy. We cannot afford to say that
30:31I am apolitical. Being apolitical is being ignorant and we cannot afford to be ignorant. So,
30:38we are going to go forward as a political pressure group.
30:45You know, you are saying political pressure group, but you are making, as I said at the
30:48outset, more and more political statements. You are calling for Amit Shah's resignation,
30:52which echoes what Rahul Gandhi is saying in parliament. You are targeting the prime minister.
30:57I want to understand, you know, when you say you are a political pressure group, what kind?
31:01Only focusing on education or are demanding resignations of ministers? Today,
31:05is Dharmendra Pradhan. Tomorrow it could be someone else. Is that what you are going to do?
31:12It won't be just education. Education is one of the, is going to be one of the biggest
31:16issue that we will be focusing on. Along with unemployment and along with, sir,
31:22the great economic divide that our country is seeing, there is a great economic anxiety
31:26in our nation today. And unfortunately, the government doesn't realize it. And that is why people are so
31:32frustrated, so disappointed with the government. Because in today's time, people don't have jobs.
31:37And whoever have jobs, they don't have a dignified job. People are earning not even minimum wage, sir.
31:44So how are people supposed to manage their livelihoods? Whatever you saw at Jantar Mantar,
31:49that was a collective anger against the government, not just against one single minister. Yes,
31:55that minister was responsible for the fiasco in NEET and other examination system. And he was supposed to
32:00be held accountable. And we have managed to do that. We want to bring accountability culture back in
32:05India. Now they cannot say that it's not in the government. If there is a mistake, if people's
32:12life is failing, so the resignation must happen. And we will keep working towards that,
32:19along with working on putting up, like bringing the economic condition of the country at the forefront.
32:25And so one thing we need to understand is that the youth of this country is really disappointed,
32:30not just because of the education or the economic divide. There is a great distrust among the youth
32:37on the political ecosystem and also on the institutions of the country. The people of this
32:43country feel that who should we trust now? We go to the judiciary. We don't get justice there.
32:50We go to the political parties. We elect them. But when we elect them, they switch the parties.
32:56So who should these people trust? The investigative agencies, they don't, the investigative agencies,
33:01they no longer work for the common people. They are working, they are working as a political outfit
33:07of the ruling party. They can be seeing, reading people, whoever is speaking against the government.
33:13So this is a collective anger. There is a great distrust among the people on the government,
33:18on the institutions, and on the entire political ecosystem. We need to work on that. We need to
33:24bring back that trust. If we don't bring back that trust among the people, it is a very dangerous thing
33:30for the democracy. And as someone who believes in democracy, as someone who believes in peace,
33:35and as someone who believes in the legacy of Mahatma Gandhi, Ambedkar, Jawarlal, Nehru,
33:39I want the trust to be back in the minds of the people that yes, there are systems who are
33:45there for
33:45the common people. Yes, there are institutions who will protect the common people.
33:53But you know, there are those who are listening to what you just said, who will say, well, Abhijit
33:57Deepke is now a politician. You know, you're saying you want to be a political pressure group,
34:02but there'll be those who say that that's not going to change. You may have succeeded this one
34:06time, but if you really want to make a change, you're going to have to join politics. Are you ready
34:11now to join politics? Let's be very clear. Lots of Maharashtra politicians are meeting you.
34:15There is, many believe there's a vacuum in opposition politics in Maharashtra. Do you want
34:21to be a full-time politician? Yes or no? No, sir, I don't want to be a full-time politician.
34:29What is
34:29the use of being a full-time politician? The votes get deleted. If I try to contest election,
34:34the votes will be deleted. And if not the vote, ED will be sent out after the people that support
34:39me.
34:40That is the condition. That is the harsh reality of our country. And that is why we believe that the
34:45change in India in today's time is possible only through a public movement. And that is what we
34:49need. And that is what we will work on. Okay, so you're going to work on more public movements.
34:57Have you decided what your next campaign? Have you already decided what your next campaign
35:01of the Kokrut Janata Party is? We are working on that, sir. We are working on that. We are just
35:08trying
35:08to regroup again. We are just trying to get in. We are trying to have meetings with all of our
35:12volunteers
35:12who have helped us manage this protest because everybody was there for more than a month. So,
35:17everybody is just with their families now. And by the end of this weekend, we will be regrouping and
35:23we will be deciding on our future agendas.
35:29Okay. You know, Abhijit, there was a book written on Manmohan Singh. It was called Accidental Prime Minister.
35:36In many ways, you become an accidental leader, whether you like it or not, whether you are
35:41willing to admit it or not. That's what's happened over the last few weeks. We will therefore look
35:47very closely to see what kind of role you play. You've also, I'm presuming of course,
35:53I have one thing to say, sir. You don't want to be seen as a Dalit leader or a Dalit
35:56politician?
35:59You don't want to be seen as a Dalit leader, Dalit politician? Do you want to be seen as an
36:03accidental leader? I have one thing to say on that, sir. The demographic of India is such that
36:1160% of the population of this country in today's time is from the age group of 20 to 35.
36:19These are
36:20the people in majority. That means 60% of India belongs to the young people. So, it's in the best
36:26interest of the country, it's in the best interest of the democracy of this country that more and more
36:30young people should come forward to take things in hand and to shape the future of this country.
36:35How it can be that the 60% of the country belongs to 60% of this country belongs to
36:41the young people
36:41and the decisions are being made by the people who are supposed to be retired?
36:50And yes, coming to the Dalit question that I happen to be a person who is Dalit and I have,
37:00I am someone who happens to be a Dalit. I am an Ambedkarite and I will remain one.
37:06Yeah, I will remain an Ambedkarite. I believe in Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar and I believe that
37:12until today, it's unfortunate that Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar was limited to a certain community.
37:17Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar is not just a leader of a certain community, not just of the Dalits.
37:22Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar is the leader of India, who has shaped India, who has given us the India
37:27that we have today and it's because of him, women have all the fundamental rights.
37:33It's not just the Dalits who he uplifted, it's the women of this country. Without Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar,
37:38the women of this country would still be struggling for right to education, right to employment
37:43and something as basic as right to inherit properties. Without Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar,
37:49I don't think the women of this country would have got their right to inherit properties. They would
37:54have still be struggling for that. So Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar is the leader for any person who is
38:01oppressed by the system. He belongs to every person who faces injustice operations by this
38:08operation by the system. And J. Bhim is the slogan of the people who are oppressed. It doesn't belong
38:14to one single community. It belongs to the people of India.
38:16India. It belongs to the people who believes in the constitution of India. And it belongs to the
38:22people who are ready to fight for injustice.
38:26Okay, I'm going to leave it. I'm going to leave it there. Abhiji Deepke, you're back in
38:29Shambhaji Nagar with your family. You've become a bit of a hero, as I said, accidental hero.
38:35Has your life changed? Have you become an ahankar? Have you become arrogant now that I can do anything?
38:49Sir, first of all, I want to convey this to everybody. Stop making people hero overnight.
38:56Whatever problem we face in our country is because we have made one person bigger than the constitution
39:03of India, bigger than all the institutions of India, bigger than the country itself.
39:07And we don't do this just with the politicians. We do this with every single celebrity.
39:12We do this with the film stars. We do this with the cricketers. We do this with every single famous
39:18personality. And we should be stopped doing this. I request all young people who are watching this,
39:23start looking at other famous people just the way you are. Don't think they are above you.
39:28The day you think they are above you, somewhere you are responsible for making them inaccountable,
39:34inaccessible. Keep them grounded. It's up to you.
39:37If you make these people bigger than you, it's your fault. If you make these people bigger than you,
39:42don't understand themselves. Don't understand themselves. Don't make them bigger than you.
39:45It's just like you. Don't make them like you people who are. If you make them bigger than you,
39:51then you will stay responsible to this country. Don't make them like the overnight hero. Don't make me.
39:57Don't make them as 10 years later. I'll be outdated after 10 years. There will be somebody else who will
40:04come.
40:04There will be other thing like the Kokoro Janta Party and that is what exactly is needed for this country.
40:09This country should not be limited to few people.
40:12The democracy should not be limited to few people.
40:15The protest should not be limited to few people.
40:17The beauty of democracy is that it evolves with time, it evolves with the people.
40:23Okay, I'm going to leave it there.
40:24You know, your last comments about hero worship, echo what Baba Sahib Ambedkar said about what hero worship can do
40:32to democracy.
40:35And therefore, on that note, Abhijit Deepke for joining me and sharing your thoughts and views on what has been
40:42a rather dramatic two months in your life.
40:45Thank you very much for being part of this India Today special.
40:57Okay, from that big exclusive, let's turn to the story that's breaking at the moment.
41:03Two non-local labourers have been attacked in Kulgam in Kashmir.
41:08One has been killed, one injured.
41:10A terror attack has taken place.
41:12Forces at the spot area cordoned off.
41:14Remember, there were these type of attacks happening a couple of years ago when non-Kashmiri labourers had been targeted.
41:21Well, we are seeing a revival of some sorts in this attack.
41:24Meir Fareed is joining me at the moment from Srinagar.
41:28Meir, what more details can you give us about this latest attack that's taken place in the Kashmir Valley?
41:35Well, Rajdeep, it's a targeted attack and we've got inputs from Kulgam, Kellam area of Kulgam, where two labourers, non
41:45-locals from Jarkhand, they have been targeted.
41:50They were working in a brick kiln and around 8.30 p.m. is when the locals heard at least
41:55six to seven gunshots.
41:57And post that, as they rushed to the location, they found both of them in pool of blood.
42:01Now, one was killed on the location and now we're getting inputs that the other one has also succumbed to
42:07his injuries in GMC and Atnag.
42:10As is the SOP, security forces have rushed to the location, they have cordoned off the area.
42:16But more importantly, such an incident happening after a gap of four years, as you rightly said.
42:22At that time, there was a spate of such incidents, targeted killings.
42:27But more recently, Anatna cock killed and then here, soft targets where two non-locals have been targeted, most probably
42:35by TRF, which is said to be offshoot of Lashkar-e-Toi Baraj.
42:43Okay, Meer Fareed, joining us with those details, we'll keep tracking that story.
42:48Let me turn to one of our other big stories today, where a Delhi court today sentenced former Amadmi Party
42:54municipal councillor Tahir Hussain and four others to life imprisonment for the murder of Intelligence Bureau officer Ankit Sharma during
43:03the 2020 Delhi riots.
43:05During, while pronouncing the order, the Delhi court highlighted the monstrosity of their crime.
43:12Ankit's family, though, wants Tahir Hussain to be hanged, he, in turn, has decided to appeal to the high court.
43:19Take a look.
43:24It was a murder most foul.
43:27And the savagery did not end with the murder.
43:31His body was dragged into a drain nearby, as if the hatred was still not satiated.
43:37This is how a Delhi court described the killing of Intelligence Bureau officer Ankit Sharma during the Delhi riots in
43:452020.
43:47In its verdict, sentencing former Amadmi Party councillor Tahir Hussain to life imprisonment for murder.
43:56The other four convicts were also given life in prison.
44:00The crime, the court said, tilted towards the rarest of the rare.
44:05The monstrosity outweighs the mitigating circumstances.
44:10Hussain's lawyer said he was only in the crowd and not directly linked to the crime.
44:15In a statement, the former Amadmi Party councillor said he would continue to fight for justice.
44:30The Delhi police had sought death penalty for all the accused.
44:35Deceased Ankit Sharma's family wants all the convicts to be hanged.
44:40The Khursain's family wanted to fight for justice.
44:48He was only in the house, and he was asked to judge him to be hanged in a good reason.
44:59He was like, we need to fight for justice.
45:00He was like, we need to fight for justice.
45:01We need to fight for justice.
45:03We need to fight for justice.
45:14While Delhi Chief Minister Rekha Gupta has welcomed the court's decision,
45:20Law Minister Kapil Mishra expressed hope that the sentence would be converted into death penalty by the High Court.
45:49The Aam Admi Party says it had immediately expelled Tahir Hussain from the party.
45:55It has claimed that Tahir Hussain was a BJP man and if anyone gained political advantage from the Delhi riots,
46:02it was solely the BJP.
46:06In February 2020, 26-year-old Ankit Sharma, a security assistant with IB, was dragged by a mob and attacked
46:14with knives, sticks, rods and stones
46:18before his body was dumped in a drain during the violence that swept through North East Delhi.
46:24The body with at least 51 knife wounds was found the next day.
46:29For the family of Ankit Sharma, it is a step forward closure.
46:32But not the end of their search for complete justice.
46:37With Arvind Ojha and Anisha Mathur, Bureau Report, India Today.
46:45Okay, let's turn to the big controversy that's been brewing in the world of sport after the Indian hockey team
46:51jersey has been changed from blue to saffron
46:54for the FIH World Cup that begins next week in Odisha.
46:58Officials are claiming that the decision was taken based on feedback, but sources to India Today have confirmed that the
47:06jersey was changed without consultation with the players.
47:10Hockey India insists that they felt that the blue jersey against the blue astroturf backdrop was making it tough for
47:18players to identify the teammates.
47:20But today, Naveen Patnaik, former Odisha Chief Minister, has also stepped in.
47:25And Mr. Patnaik said this decision was taken politically by the BJP government in Odisha to give the players a
47:32saffron look.
47:33And several Olympians have also objected now to it.
47:38Joining me now on that big controversy, former Indian hockey captain Jagbir Singh joins me and Nikhil Naas, our consulting
47:45sports editor.
47:46Good to have both of you there.
47:48Jagbir, to you first.
47:50Do you share the views of the likes of Viran Raskeena and Vee Bhaskaran, both other former India captains who
47:56felt this was unnecessary?
47:59Indian team's legacy is blue.
48:01Why change it to saffron?
48:04Yes, I did say the same yesterday also, during our discussion with another Chibi channel, that yes, it was a
48:12surprise.
48:13It came as a shock that colors have been changed and the controversy arising out of that.
48:18I would have been more happy and very pleased when a new launch of Jersey in a spectacular way would
48:27have been there,
48:28that India has a new jersey with such and such good designer or some real different outfit.
48:34Hockey would have been on screen for a good reason.
48:37But unfortunately, it has been happening in the past.
48:41And as you remember, in 2010, when we were covering the Commonwealth Games, Razdeep, you said, what do you feel?
48:47And I was the one who was running out of the national stadium and every time talking about hockey with
48:52you.
48:52And I could see that feeling of hockey while talking to you and also while talking to the other people,
48:58how much people are attached to hockey, how much people love hockey.
49:02People are waiting to see, to hear about hockey.
49:05Since 2010, hockey has been on the rise, though in between for some bad reasons.
49:11But this is a very unfortunate one because we love India in blue.
49:17India in blue with a combination of striking colors, be it orange, we welcome that.
49:23But not complete orange like Netherlands.
49:29But you see, Jagmeet, the hockey players are saying that, or the hockey, those who decided, took this decision.
49:36Apparently, now, without consulting, the players took the decision saying that the blue colored shirts will mix with the blue
49:43astroturf.
49:44That's why they did this.
49:46That it makes it difficult to sight the ball.
49:48Is that an argument that really sustains?
49:52Yes, the technical side, they are right.
49:54This has been in discussion for a very long time.
49:57Since 2012, when the blue artificial pitch was the first time in London, we all played.
50:04We didn't have much artificial pitches in blue color in India, though.
50:08But still, there was a discussion about blue.
50:11You need to have a contrast color to identify because it's a very contact sport in the sense you're very
50:19close.
50:20You're always looking at the ground.
50:21You just have a glimpse of another player.
50:24You need some striking colors to match with on blue.
50:26Blue does not go.
50:27I agree to that.
50:28But then we played.
50:29We won a bronze medal recently in the Olympic Games.
50:32No, so then why object?
50:34There is an object from the players.
50:37No, so then why object?
50:40People are objecting.
50:41The players are objecting of complete orange color.
50:45We are all saying that the blue with a combination of orange striking color,
50:50even orange stockings we played with during the Olympic Games,
50:54and we won a medal also.
50:55No problems with that.
50:57No problems for color combinations.
51:00But please stick to that blue, traditional blue,
51:03which has brought laurels to the country, and India is identified.
51:07You just pull out one shirt in blue color,
51:11and people will say that men in blue, it's Indian hockey.
51:18You know, Nikhil, you've been speaking to players, you've been speaking to the management.
51:22What is the truth?
51:24Are the organizers lying when they said they contacted the players and then took this decision?
51:30Now, Dilip Tirki, the IHF head, is also saying that he was not aware of this.
51:35So, someone, this seems to be prima facie, a political decision.
51:39Is that what you're picking up?
51:42Very interesting, Rajdeep.
51:44See, firstly, I think it's turning a bit comical at the moment.
51:48I mean, yesterday we were discussing the merits and demerits of whether you should see or not.
51:53But now, as things are turning out, and I say this with a lot of responsibility,
51:57having spoken to a few players, both in the men's as well as the women's team,
52:01I don't think any sort of feedback was sought from them when you decided to change the jersey.
52:06So, I must call out that bluff.
52:08So, when Hockey India comes out and says it, don't take it.
52:12Now, in fact, to back what I'm saying right now with a lot of responsibility,
52:16you also have the Hockey India president come out and say that on the day of this controversy breaking,
52:22he came out and said that, listen, players have told us to do it.
52:25Now, in his email to his executive board, he says, listen,
52:27I only said it as a face-searing exercise because I did not want the focus to be taken away
52:33from the players.
52:34That's why I've said it, but I don't know the real reason.
52:37Please explain why we've taken that decision and why it's the executive board that has not been consulted.
52:43So, that bogey of taking feedback from the players can be put to bed.
52:48That's not the reality.
52:49Now, the question is, who may have been behind this?
52:51Now, what I'm picking up, it could very well be a controversy that's playing out in the domestic circle.
52:56You've got Bolanath Singh, who's involved and is facing some serious charges of sexual harassment within his own state association.
53:05But, to your point about whether it's become political or whether there was any sort of political instructions or suggestions,
53:12there's an interesting twist to that as well.
53:14The reason Dilip Terki has come out and said this and demanded explanation is because he says,
53:21government of Odisha is asking me, please explain why you've changed the jersey color to orange.
53:26Why the government of Odisha?
53:28Because they are the official sponsor.
53:29Government of Odisha, let's not forget Ragdeep, is the current dispensation in the center.
53:35BJP is also the government in power in Odisha.
53:39So, to say that the ruling dispensation suggested or instructed that the color be changed to orange would also be
53:47inaccurate.
53:48I know we are all divided on political lines because we associate this orange with the ruling dispensation.
53:53But, believe you me, it's not even that.
53:55I think somewhere within the Hockey India was kind of nervous with the sort of allegation and investigation against him
54:03by the sports ministry.
54:04To cozy up to the sports ministry, I think Bolanad Singh thought it's best to have the jersey orange.
54:10Maybe they'll go a bit softly.
54:15Well, either way, whatever it is, I think the fact is for us who've loved this game for so many
54:21years,
54:22we are passionate and emotional about hockey.
54:24Blue was the color.
54:26Please show me which country so dramatically changes its color just before a major tournament.
54:32Nothing wrong with saffron, but as Jagbir has rightly put it, you could have had blue with a mix of
54:38saffron.
54:39But to then saffronize the legacy, who knows?
54:42Next, it'll be the cricket team.
54:43And will the players object?
54:45Who knows again?
54:47Because politics, sadly, in my view, is mixing with sport even when it comes to color.
54:54For God's sake, treasure the legacy of Indian hockey.
54:57That's one of our greatest sporting legacies.
55:01Jagbir Singh and Nikhil Nas on that note, thank you very much for joining me.
55:06Just about enough time to say goodnight, goodbye, shubratri, jaihin, namaskar.
55:13Have a nice weekend.
55:14Bye for now.
55:15Bye for now.
55:15Bye for now.
55:15Bye for now.
55:15Bye for now.
55:15Bye for now.
55:16You
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