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A Lok Sabha debate marking 150 years of 'Vande Mataram' triggered a political showdown in Lok Sabha on Monday between the ruling party and the Opposition.
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00:01Sunsad showdown
00:09Vande Maatram controversy rubs
00:25Prime Minister Modi takes on opposition
00:30Opposition strikes back
00:40National song
00:43National firestorm
00:46National Song, National Firestorm
01:16Good evening, you're watching To The Point with me, Maria Shaquille
01:24The Parliament showdown over the National Song
01:27One Day Matram leads our top stories
01:29Prime Minister Modi fired Salvo at the opposition
01:32and they hit back in equal measure
01:34We'll dive into that shortly
01:36but first here's a look at all the headlines today
01:40One Day Matram debate in Lok Sabha
01:42Prime Minister Modi targets Nehru
01:45and Congress saying first one day was partitioned, then India
01:51Congress MP Fianca Gandhi-Wadha retorts
01:54that the government is distracting from real issues
01:57Indigo responds to massive flight mess
02:04sources say letter is highly guarded
02:07and senior officials likely to assemble this evening
02:10Goa cops summoned senior government officers to join nightclub fire probe
02:20over lapses and violations
02:22five accused arrested owners still on the run
02:25who is to be blamed for 25 deaths
02:29And DMK's war on judge who allowed Deepam at Madurai Hill Shrine
02:40DMK moves to impeach Justice Swaminathan
02:44Group of advocates held a protest outside Madras High Court against the judge
02:50Court acquits Malayalam after the leap of rape charges
02:59Court says Malayalam after the leap not guilty
03:01The leap was accused of abducting, raping after the leap let off
03:05But six other are accused guilty
03:08The parliament today erupted in a historic 10-hour Lok Sabha debate
03:24marking 150 years of the Vande Mataram
03:27The fiery national song that fuelled the freedom struggle
03:31from Bankim Chandra's 1875 novel Anandamad
03:36Prime Minister Narendra Modi opened with a powerful tribute
03:40hailing it as a sacred war cry
03:42that united Hindus and Muslims against the British rule
03:45while slamming the Congress for truncating its verses in 1937
03:50under Nehru's leadership to appease Jinnah's Muslim League objections
03:55Defence Minister Ragnar Singh echoed that the song was post-independence
04:01marginalised like an extra as Congress elevated Jan Ganman
04:06prompting sharp retort coming in from Priyanka Gandhi
04:10Wadra who questioned the debate's timing amidst Bengal polls
04:14and MPs like Jebi Mathur of the Congress Party
04:17defending it as emotionally patriotic for all Indians
04:22This clash revived old wounds over patriotism, unity and appeasement
04:27but does Vande Mataram's full glory deserve revival
04:33or does politicising it deepen divides in modern India?
04:38That's my question on the show tonight
04:39but first, here's what happened in the parliament today
04:42This year marks 150 anniversary of Vande Mataram
04:53The chant that became focal point of India's freedom struggle
05:05A symbol of unity, freedom and patriotism
05:15is now at the centre of a political storm
05:18Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Monday
05:26initiated a discussion on the national song
05:29In the lockdown of Lundi, the
05:49The Prime Minister lashed out at the Congress for omitting stanzas and accused Jawaharlal Nehru of succumbing to pressure from the Muslim League.
06:19The BJP questioned Rahul Gandhi for missing the debate.
06:42While the Prime Minister was speaking, most of the top leaders of the BJP were present.
06:46There were many present from the Samajwadi Party, from the Congress and from the other opposition parties.
06:52Even a lot of top leaders from the TMC were present.
06:55But those who were missing, Rahul Gandhi and Priyanka Gandhi-Wadra.
06:58They were not present when the Prime Minister was speaking on One Day Mataram.
07:02Prime Minister spoke that there were historical facts that were being distorted by Jawaharlal Nehru
07:07and also spoke about the fact that One Day Mataram should once again become a uniting force and the country should now stand united.
07:13The opposition hit back at Prime Minister Modi, calling the One Day Mataram Rao a manufacture diversion ahead of elections.
07:22Priyanka Gandhi says the debate was unnecessary, accusing the Prime Minister of sidestepping real issues and making fact-free speeches.
07:30Priyanka Gandhi says the debate is not a
08:00Samajwadi MP Akhilesh Yadav echoed the charge, warning that Vande Matram is being politicized,
08:06accusing the BJP of divide and rule tactics.
08:29With another day of debate on Vande Matram in Rajasabha on Tuesday, more fireworks are expected in the parliament.
08:46With Ashwarya Paliwal, Bureau Report, India Today.
08:49Joining me now is Pradeep Bhandari, National Spokesperson of the BJP.
08:59We have Jebi Mathur, Congress MP of the Rajasabha joining us on this broadcast.
09:05Pradeep Bhandari, Priyanka Gandhi Wadra has questioned the timing of this entire debate.
09:11Why are we having this debate is what she asked.
09:14How do you counter claims that it's purely a ploy of the BJP for electoral gains in Bengal rather than a genuine national tribute?
09:27Well, Maria, anything which is patriotic and nationalistic and it is to do with patriotism, the Congress Party will always have a problem.
09:35I understand the Congress Party's pain because when Nande Matram completed 100 years, Sonia Gandhi personally did not attend the event.
09:44And in 2006, when there was a private member's bill in order to discuss and celebrate Vande Matram,
09:49it was Congress Party and then Education Minister and then Minister Arjun Singh who opposed it.
09:53And the Congress Party historically has opposed it.
09:56But what is the fact?
09:57The fact is that nations who do not learn from their history cannot make a great future.
10:01And our generation need to know the following facts.
10:03Is it true or not that both Hindus and Muslims sang for 41 years the entire version of Vande Matram?
10:08Is it true or not that Gurudev Ravindranath Thakur, when he sang the entire Vande Matram in 1896,
10:14the president of the Congress Party was a Muslim Ramatullah Sayani?
10:16Is it true or not that the opposition of the Muslim League in 1823 forced Jawaharlal Nehru to go down to the pressure of the Muslim League in 1937?
10:24And further, it got opposition from Netaji Subhash Sanderbos and Lala Lajpat Rai.
10:29In fact, in order to quote Netaji Subhash Sanderbos, and I quote Subhash Sanderbos,
10:33Subhash Sanderbos went ahead and said to Jawaharlal Nehru,
10:37you and the Congress Party, the Working Committee under you have yielded to communal pressure in matters of Vande Matram.
10:42This is a dangerous precedent.
10:43Just years after this, you had the partition of India.
10:46Is it true or not that on 20th October 1937, Jawaharlal Nehru wrote a letter saying that Vande Matram would irritate the Muslims?
10:54So this nation needs to know that if Hindus and Muslims who sang it together in 1905,
10:58opposing the partition of Bengal by the Britishers,
11:01what was the urgent need of Jawaharlal Nehru to make it a Hindu-Muslim issue?
11:04Respond to this because you have called Vande Matram deeply emotional and patriotic for every Indian.
11:13Then how does the Congress reconcile this with the 1937 Congress Working Committee truncation,
11:22a collective decision involving Gandhi, Nehru, opposed by some Muslim leaders to appease Jinnah,
11:30as Prime Minister Modi alleged?
11:31Today, Priyanka Gandhiji's words echoed in Parliament is the feeling of every right-minded Indian is what I believe in.
11:45Vande Matram is definitely an emotion for everyone.
11:49And Vande Matram is now bringing this into discussion.
11:53There is a lot of agendas behind it.
11:55And now the spokesperson of BJP saying that anything to do with patriotism, Congress has problem.
12:02I totally disagree to that and say if there's anybody, if there's any party which can claim the right to speak about freedom struggle
12:11and the patriotism is definitely the Congress party.
12:16They can change the textbooks.
12:18They can write new history.
12:19But the fact remains, the Congress contribution, leaders of Congress parties' contribution can never be written off.
12:27Now, coming to your question regarding Vande Matram.
12:31Today, Priyanka Gandhiji has very categorically stated how it all happened and what was the real situation and how this decision was reached.
12:42Now, if Modiji claims that such two stanzas, this was a compromise or a sowing the seeds of division,
12:52is he accusing Sardar Vallabai Patel?
12:55Is he accusing Nehru?
12:57Is he accusing Assad?
12:59Is he accusing Mahatma Gandhi?
13:03These are the leaders who fought for the country and now they want to accuse these leaders.
13:08Why is BJP now bringing in retroactively this kind of questions and communalizing a decision?
13:16So, they have their own agenda.
13:17Pradeep Bhandari.
13:18Let me also say...
13:19Pradeep Bhandari.
13:19One moment, ma'am.
13:20I'm coming to you.
13:21I'm coming to you, ma'am.
13:22Let Pradeep Bhandari respond.
13:24You know, is it some kind of hypocrisy of the BJP?
13:27Well, Maria, this mindset of why are we discussing now, if you recall, for 70 years, the Congress
13:33Party did not even have a constitution day discussing about the contribution of our constitution
13:38maker like Baba Sai Bhim Rao Mbedkar.
13:40So, the Nehru Gandhi-Wadra family thinks that nothing can be discussed about our freedom
13:43struggle except Jawala Nehru.
13:45Now, let me quote facts here.
13:47The fact is the following.
13:48In 1946, in Guwahati, Mahatma Gandhi says, and I quote, that Vande Matram is the soul
13:54of India's freedom struggle.
13:55Vande Matram should not be truncated.
13:58It represents the sacrifice and patriotism of our freedom fighters.
14:01So, whether it is Mahatma Gandhi or, in fact, Lala Lachutra had it translated in Urdu
14:07and in Punjabi.
14:08So, whether it is Hindus, Muslims or Punjabis, everybody sang Vande Matram in Punjab under
14:13Lala Lachutra.
14:14So, the question needs to be asked that why did Jawala Nehru on his own, when he was
14:18the president of the Congress Party in a session, truncated the version because it is the Hindus
14:23and the Muslims who together were united in this fight against the Britishers using Vande
14:28Matram as a clarion call.
14:31Okay.
14:33Javi Matram, respond to this.
14:36The constituent assembly in which Dr. Ambedkarji was heading it.
14:41Constituent assembly approved it.
14:43Now, they are questioning.
14:45Now, they are questioning the decision of constituent assembly.
14:48Now, let me also ask.
14:49They are saying about this, the Muslim League of those times, which Jairam Rameshji's tweet
14:56is very, very important.
14:57Which Indian leader formed a coalition in Bengal in the early 1940s with the person who moved
15:04the Pakistan resolution in Lahore in March 1940?
15:07It was Shama Prasad Mukherjee.
15:10Which Indian leader applauded Jinnah in Karachi in June 2005?
15:15It was LK Advani.
15:16Which Indian leader praised Jinnah in his book 2009?
15:20It was Jaswant Singh.
15:22What do they have to say about all this?
15:24Now, Congress party, we have always taken a very, very national unity, integration.
15:33And then, it is a collective decision in every, whether it's working committee, whether it's
15:38constituent assembly, it is all discussed, debated, including Sardar Vallabhai Patel and
15:44all leaders concerned.
15:45And now, they are questioning our great leaders.
15:48Our great leaders.
15:49I do not mean Congress leaders.
15:51I mean great leaders of India.
15:53You know, the question really is here, Pradeep Bhandari, about the, about what Ragnath Singh
16:03also said.
16:04That he had said that Vande Matram was marginalized post-independence.
16:08How do you respond to what Congress is saying?
16:10That Janganman's elevation was rightful, not a deliberate sidelining of this song?
16:20Well, Maria, I have the following facts.
16:23Can the Congress MP even show one public statement of Sardar Vallabhai Patel in favor of the truncated
16:29version of Vande Matram?
16:31Not a single statement.
16:33Can she show a single statement of Netaji Subhash Chandra Boast in favor of the truncated
16:37version of Vande Matram?
16:39Not a single statement.
16:40In 1896, it was Gurudev Rabindranath Thakur who himself sang the entire Vande Matram and
16:47where the president of the Congress party at that time was a Muslim.
16:51So, I want to know that if for 41 years the Hindus and the Muslims under the freedom struggle
16:57were using that as a clarion call, what prompted Jawaharlal Nehru in 1937 to make it a Hindu-Muslim
17:03issue?
17:04Was Mr. Nehru not practicing communal politics and appeasement politics?
17:08And if that is so, the Congress party needs to apologize in 10 seconds.
17:11After independence, let us give the benefit of doubt to Jawaharlal Nehru.
17:15But what stopped the Congress party to discuss this and have the entire version of Vande Matram
17:19after independence?
17:20After independence, I do not believe that there was any pressure from the Muslim League.
17:23So, which was the forces that the Congress party was allowing to or was under pressure
17:28that it even did not thought of having the entire Vande Matram which was the clarion call
17:33of the freedom fighters after independence?
17:35It has taken us 70 years to at least acknowledge the contribution of Bankim Chandra Chattopathy
17:39that Vande Matram was marginalized.
17:47Why did the Congress, you know, prioritize Jan Ganman?
17:52The question is that is there a response that the Congress party can necessarily give on this?
17:57Very conveniently, the Prime Minister today in his speech ignored, did not say anything
18:03about Sardar Vallabhai Patel's letter to Nehru.
18:06The same line is being followed by the BJP spokesperson, which I am not surprised,
18:11which is what the BJP spokesperson is, we are expecting from him.
18:15Now, regarding sidelining, where is sidelining happening?
18:18National anthem and national song, both are emotions for us, for everyone, for every Indian.
18:25There is no religion, there is no state, there is no language we speak, it doesn't matter.
18:30For us, national song and national anthem, both are very important and both are very emotional
18:37for us.
18:38So, there is no sidelining of Vande Matram.
18:40I, as a student, remember singing Vande Matram in school, both national song, national anthem
18:47and national song.
18:48In every Congress meeting, we begin with Vande Matram.
18:51In every Congress working committee session, we begin with Vande Matram.
18:56Not just now, not just now, not just now when somebody, when one particular party want to
19:03distort history and make big claims.
19:05We have been doing it genuinely for years together, years and years together.
19:10It was us, it was Congress party who brought all this into the, into the main focus.
19:17Now they want to say that sidelining of national song.
19:21How does it, how can they even say such, such false statements?
19:29Okay, Pradeep, probably you are actually showing on your...
19:31One more important thing, Maria.
19:32Yes, ma'am, go ahead.
19:34I wish to say, see this agenda of bringing it is, do they discuss anything about that matters
19:40to people?
19:41Today in all our speeches, which Priyanka Gandhiji also said, see, do they discuss anything that
19:47matters to the people?
19:48They want to discuss only this, but we, Vande Matram, we respect, we appreciate.
19:54But the hidden agenda of BJP is very, very clear.
19:59It is Bengal elections are coming.
20:02They want to again sow the seeds of divide and rule, which British has done many years
20:06ago.
20:07Now BJP wants to do, is what we wish to say.
20:09Okay, Pradeep Andari, quickly.
20:11It is unfortunate, Maria, that when we speak about the entire version of Vande Matram,
20:17they look it from the point of view of divide and rule, but they will not accept that the
20:20real divide and rule in the seeds of partition was soaked when Jawanda Nehru in 1937 agreed
20:25to truncate the version of Vande Matram going down to the Muslim League.
20:29Point number one.
20:30Point number two.
20:30If their intention is honest, can they answer why did Sonia Gandhi not attend the 100th year
20:35celebration of Vande Matram in 2005?
20:38If their intention is honest, can they tell us that why did the Congress party oppose schools
20:42making or singing the entire version of Vande Matram in 2005?
20:46In fact, it was the scenario was such that the Congress party opposed it.
20:49And point number three, and again, I will reiterate, she has not till now given me a public statement
20:54of Sardar Barlab by Patel against full Vande Matram.
20:59She has not given me a public statement of Rahul Gandhi in favor of Vande Matram.
21:03Can she show me the date of the Congress meeting where the entire Vande Matram has been sang in
21:07the last 70 years since independence?
21:09Even a single meeting?
21:10Not a single meeting.
21:11In fact, the Bharatiya Janta party meetings began with the entire version of Vande Matram.
21:15In 10 seconds, her another hypocrisy is exposed by this video.
21:19Recall when there was a public rally, Rahul Gandhi was there.
21:23He instructed Mr. K.C. Venu Gopal that he should stop Vande Matram in between.
21:28So you had only one line of Vande Matram being sang from the state because Rahul was getting late.
21:33So my charge here is the following, that the Congress party for appeasement and
21:37report down to the radical fundamentalists and the psyche of the Congress is that of the
21:41Muslim League Mahovadi.
21:42The Congress should apologize for the mistake it made in 1937.
21:45However, the ideology of the Congress continues to go further.
21:48And in five seconds, this is the India Today article where the Calcutta High Court lambasted
21:53the Chinnamul Congress government for converting the ancestral home of…
21:57You know, I have a point while we understand that this debate on 150 years did highlight some
22:05very interesting points, some interesting factoids of history as well.
22:09But, you know, this is coming at a time when Delhi is a gas chamber.
22:16It is unbreathable.
22:17So, we certainly expected politicians to also debate this in Parliament.
22:23So, why are you disrupting question-are, Jabi Mathur?
22:28So, it is very clear.
22:30It is not a choice of either-or.
22:31The Parliament session is on.
22:32No, I agree.
22:33I agree.
22:34It should not be either-or.
22:35If the Democratic Party will not disrupt the question-are, then definitely it will happen.
22:38But the Congress has been historically disrupting the Parliament.
22:40So, why are you disrupting question-are, Jabi Mathur?
22:44These are important public-centric issues which should be taken up for discussion.
22:54Jabi Mathur.
22:55So, it is very clear they don't want to discuss issues that matters to the people.
23:01As you rightly pointed out, when Delhi itself is like a gas chamber, they don't want to
23:05where after people choke to death only, they want to even start initiate any conversation
23:11or debate on it.
23:11And also, let me give a reply to what he said about Rahul Gandhi stopping.
23:17See, Rahul Gandhi has very, very many innumerable occasions have said Indian flag is my religion.
23:24Whether it's Indian flag, whether it's national anthem, whether it's national song,
23:29all that is very, very important for Rahul Gandhiji and for all of us.
23:35So, now this BJP, the Prime Minister and BJP should apologize to the nation because they
23:44have been criticizing, they have been accusing our great leaders.
23:50Our means, I reiterate, it's not our Congress leaders, the great leaders, the great leaders
23:57of our nation.
23:58All right.
23:59All right.
24:00Jabi Mathur and Pradeep Pandaria really appreciated telling us.
24:04India's aviation nightmare stretched into its fourth day today, with Indigo cancelling over
24:10400 flights on Monday alone amidst a deepening pilot shortage crisis as mass sick leave protests.
24:19New rostering rules show no signs of resolution.
24:22From chaotic terminals in Delhi, Mumbai and Bengaluru, passengers face endless delays, denied boardings
24:31and futile refund battles.
24:34Stranded families, business travelers and tourists with Indigo's 60% market grip, leaving few
24:42viable options amidst peak December rush.
24:45Outrage boils over on social media as well as parents are missing school events, professionals
24:52are suffering hapless flyers, sleeping on airport floors, slamming the airlines, zero accountability
24:59despite DGCA probes into potential fatigue rule violations and retaliation claims.
25:06Rivals like Air India and SpiceJet are scrambling with 30% fare hikes on opportunistic surges, while
25:16the government fumes but offers no immediate fix, highlighting chronic cruise shortage and
25:23over-reliance on one carrier.
25:26With Indigo's normalization by tonight promise ringing hollow after repeated misses, this endless
25:32chaos begs the question, how long will passengers suffer for an aviation monopoly's mismanagement
25:38before real reforms ground the disruptions?
25:42First up the story and then I bring in the reporter.
25:52India's skies are in turmoil.
25:54More than 450 Indigo flights cancelled on Monday alone as the airline's operations remained
26:00in disarray for the seventh straight day.
26:03At Delhi's Indira Gandhi International Airport, 134 flights cancelled, baggage piling up across
26:09terminals.
26:11Hundreds of the bags still lying at the Delhi airport amidst the crisis triggered by the Indigo.
26:17And the number is not actually eventually hundreds but probably even in thousands.
26:21And that we see now the baggages are being returned by the Indigo staff at Delhi's Terminal
26:251 airport.
26:26But that explains the fury and the tragedy it was triggered by the Indigo.
26:30Number of these baggage, perhaps such massive crisis, been seen first time in a decade
26:36that we seen a huge number.
26:39Bengaluru saw 127 cancellations, Hyderabad 77, Chennai 71 and Srinagar 16.
26:46Indigo staff were seen distributing food packets to stranded passengers at the airport.
26:53The civil aviation minister told the Rajasabha on Monday that this crisis is an operational
26:58issue created by the airline itself.
27:01The minister claimed that an example will be set not just for Indigo but for the entire
27:06aviation industry.
27:07We are doing an inquiry and we will take very very strict action not only for this situation
27:14but also as an example.
27:16We will set an example for all the airlines.
27:19If there is any miscompliance, any non-compliance or non-adherence for any single person, any
27:26entity or any organisation or any operator functioning in this civil aviation, this thing, we will
27:32take very very strict action so that we set an example in the industry.
27:36Political heat is rising.
27:38The opposition is demanding answers from the centre.
27:41Japan is an issue.
27:46There are many people running in the airport too.
27:47We have told the police that we are wearing some clothes too.
27:52But today, the planes are 20,000 rupees, coffee, 250 rupees and the plane is already delayed.
27:58I have never seen this type of total stagnant situation and it's a disaster it's a disaster
28:15that government of India must should have planned something from stranded travelers to political
28:24clashes nation watches in anger and disbelief as the indigo meltdown continues with no clear end
28:31in sight with Ashutosh Mishra and Amit Bhardwaj in Delhi we report India Today
28:36Amit Mahardwaj joins me from the newsroom Amit you spoke to civil aviation minister 24 hours ago
28:48there were promises that were made by him there are promises coming in from the indigo that by
28:52the end of the day solution will be inside but it appears four days and counting it's going to be
28:58a harrowing experience even for those who may have booked themselves on indigo tomorrow
29:04all right maria you know but if we look at the numbers december 5th 1000 flights were cancelled
29:10six it dropped down to 850 650 and eventually what we are given to understand by the end of the day
29:17that is december 8th uh the cancellations would be around 500 and these will be planned cancellations
29:23so overall indigo is expecting to hold uh you know operate 1800 flights on december 8th itself
29:30improving its on-time performance to 90 percent having said that the bigger questions await ceo of
29:37for indigo peter albers as well as the chief operating officer of the indigo what we are given to
29:43understand through our sources is that indigo has responded uh to the show cost notice that was
29:49served to them by the operations fsd director rs jamwal in which it was said very specifically that
29:56on prima facie it looks like non-compliance of the rules by the indigo which led to this massive
30:03civil aviation disaster in the country in the first week of december so the response has been filed it is a
30:09highly guarded letter that what my sources are are telling me and also that today later in the
30:16evening mocha secretary samir sinha along with dg dgca and senior officials of the mocha are most
30:22likely to deliberate on the response that has been filed by the indigo top officials but uh along with
30:28that more questioning for indigo top officials is on the cards my sources confirming to me this week
30:34itself the four member high level committee that has been formed by the dgca will be probing the top
30:41officials of the indigo and the summons have been already served to them so they are going to face
30:46some tough questions the bigger question for for mocha will be whether they are going to take some
30:52stringent action against indigo so that a disaster of aviation industry of this sort cannot be repeated
30:59again in this country back to you it has to be exemplary in nature and that is the only way
31:04it will deter some kind of what was being seen as blackmail by the indigo because of the monopoly it
31:12enjoys amit bharadwaj really appreciate your time let me bring in our guests group captain ajay ahlawad
31:18joins us risha shah is our guest also on the show aviation expert sanjay lazar and captain sharat panikar
31:25is with us as well um captain panikar beginning with you from your experience as a dgca inspector
31:32and also as a pilot did the regulators fail to foresee risks in indigo staffing approach before the
31:39november 2025 flight duty rule changes uh good evening maria i think uh you are spot on on that
31:48because uh there is no way in which both the civil aviation ministry as well as dgca was unaware
31:55of the fact that the induction rate of pilots by indigo was falling well well short of what was the
32:05requirement to meet the shortfall that would be imposed upon them in terms of uh the additional pilot
32:13requirements for uh the implementation of the car do keep in mind that this car has was had come out
32:21on the first of uh or rather in the beginning of january 2024 with an effective date of uh the first of
32:29july 2024 so the entire uh community including the airlines and including indigo was well aware of what
32:39was in store and what was the additional requirements that would be have to be met in order to fulfill the
32:45conditions of the car the fact that they went to court and then the delhi high court had given them
32:51a specific date for implementation of the car in two phases that is first uh 15 clauses by the first of
33:00july 2025 that is this year and the remaining seven clauses by the first of november everybody was aware
33:07of it so i'm sure that the ministry was also aware of it and i'm sure the dgca was also aware of it
33:13and on top of that uh indigo has gone ahead and increased this footprint during the winter schedule
33:20so this wouldn't have gone unnoticed either by the ministry or by the dgca so you're spot on on that
33:27yes yes so so the question here is uh group captain allow that it's perhaps known that in winter season
33:35because of holidays and vacations there are extra bookings and because of the fog there has to be
33:41extra precaution in ensuring that the entire you know rostering is kept is and done keeping that in
33:48mind so group captain allow that my question is how do you view this entire mass sick leave does it
33:54reflect um indiscipline or is it a legitimate fatigue protest given the chronic crew shortages that we
34:02have seen uh good evening ma'am i think your information is not accurate i don't see there
34:08is in any instance of mass sick leave uh the the pilots had to be off frosted because they were not
34:14legal to fly anymore because of the provisions of the car which came uh in force on first of november
34:21uh as you mentioned in your opening comments you know four days and counting the contours of this
34:27crisis are becoming clearer now initially everybody thought these are the revised norms which the
34:33previous speaker also mentioned gave us a little bit of details about when it was supposed to kick in
34:38and when it did it kick in you know the new new fttl norms kicked in on first of november the crisis
34:44happened in first week of december this needs a little bit more deliberation secondly when indigo knew
34:50they are short of crew they went ahead and added another additional thousand flights for the winter
34:55schedule you know typically they fly about 14 000 a week they made it to about 15 000 so they knew
35:01the new car will come in force they they're adding more flights they know they don't have the crew
35:06and you can't try and train an airline pilot overnight it takes good about six to eight months
35:12just to get a first officer online a captain would take even longer so that's right yeah there are
35:17these questions that need to be answered and besides the very simple thing as the flights were being
35:22cancelled the website continued to book tickets the least they could have done is to stop booking
35:27uh you know these things must be investigated my opinion okay sanjay lazar considering uh the
35:35thousands stranded by cancellation do you think uh the adequate compensation would be what and should
35:41airlines avoid offering vouchers that trap passengers further thank you for having me maria um first of
35:49all if i just may uh point out you know you need to look at the investment calls of indigo interglobe stock
35:56in june and in november at both these meetings the board was told that we will have no problem with
36:04the fdtl regulations it's there in the minutes of the concord one important thing second important
36:10thing is indigo stopped recruiting pilots paused in june of 2025 despite knowing that the car is coming in
36:18on the first of november they ran their roster in the beginning of october for winter schedule with
36:24the thousand new flights and they probably knew they wouldn't make it they've had a thousand flights
36:29canceled in november nobody raised any alarms now coming to the refunds maria you said day four it's
36:36actually day seven if i count from the second and everybody's forgotten about passengers who got gouged
36:43on the second third and fourth who is going to compensate them number two of course the government
36:49has said from the fifth onwards indigo is supposed to pay i believe they have issued a release saying
36:54they paid 650 crores until yesterday but there's a lot more that needs to be done and uh like group
37:02captain said the investigation has to be deeper you know this four secretaries or four joint secretaries
37:08sitting on it is not going to work according to me okay so sanjay since you're talking about internal
37:13planning failures as you spoke about that concord what are realistic timelines then for operational
37:20normalization and can technology then play any kind of role in avoiding repeat disruptions
37:27maria the first thing that should have been done according to me was the dgca should have said you don't have
37:33so many pilots roll back your schedule knock off 100 200 000 you know even couple of thousand flights
37:39because you know you have 100 pilots you can't expect them to do 200 people's work you've got norms
37:45even if you've taken waivers so the first thing should have been no roll back your schedule give those
37:50flights to akasa or spice jet or air india express uh which they've not done they've given them a
37:56dispensation until february second thing here is you know internal issues i would say there's lot more
38:03than meets the eye here because if the dgca office and the jdg and cfoi knew about these cancellations
38:11of november why did they let it go into december and have this cascading chaos we've got to look at a
38:18way of bringing that 63 percent down under 50 percent i think there has to be a restructuring
38:23of the aviation market in india and the this is the opportune moment for the government of india
38:28to take action okay rishabh shah as someone who would be viewing this entire crisis uh what are
38:37your thoughts and what could you would like you do um you know forums such as yours i'm sure you're
38:43speaking to the stranded passengers and interacting with him do you have a story share to share as
38:48well risha uh firstly maria thank you for having me and i was keenly listening to the the conversation
38:56and it's deeply disappointing to see that you know the only remarks that seem to be coming from the
39:00government is that uh they're going to take some action uh first things first before i you know say
39:05anything uh the government must be commended because from 74 airports in 2014 to now what 160 plus
39:11airports that they've built so they've done a great job but also the the as much as indigo is
39:17to blame i think also the government needs to be held responsible and the reason i am saying this is
39:22not just because of the indigo crisis but because of what i've seen at the airport uh there was a young
39:28man who was at the airport he was sitting below the stairs and he was crying i went up to him and i
39:33asked him what happened uh he said he said you know i was going for my grandmother's funeral
39:39i don't have enough money in order to buy another ticket and the reason was because air india had
39:45hiked its affairs uh to 60 to 70 000 it was 10 times the amount that was normally there so the man
39:52couldn't go for his grandparents funeral now it begs the question saying how do we have one industry
39:58with 95 percent or 92 percent to 95 percent being divided in terms of market share between two airlines
40:05indigo and air india control that much percent of market share so when one airline uh goes down
40:12the second one cashes in and it is crony capitalism and the government did not do much for those few
40:18days so therefore that is the that is one question the second thing which which comes to mind is the
40:23fact that this is not just in the aviation sector crony capitalism is now almost all across if you see
40:29uh the e-commerce sector you've got amazon at about 31 percent market share you've got a flipkart at a
40:3548 percent market share so the way india shops is also divided between point here captain panikar
40:41you know how do you protect passengers from what visibly is a monopolistic failure
40:45see uh this there has to be government intervention so if you look at uh what rishabh is also just
40:54brought out it was uh everybody uh who could exploit the situation exploited it so there should be a
41:02cap if the government let's say declares that this is a crisis and let's say they say that on so and so
41:10date at starting from so and so time and tickets cannot go more than twice what is the original stated
41:18amount similarly the same thing is applicable to hotels as well there were hotels that jacked up their
41:23prices by 10 times a hotel which was available in aero city for around 10 000 rupees a night
41:29it shot up to 70 000 so there should be a cap on that as well if the government were to declare that
41:35this is a national crisis as far as this particular sector is concerned airfares cannot go up beyond so
41:42and so figure into two let's say similarly hotels that are uh in and around that area that is concerned
41:48with us let's say the air the the hotel fares per night cannot go up let's say by figure of more than
41:55into two so this would go a big way in alleviating this problem and not letting the people that are
42:01around there exploit the situation to their benefit okay let me give you the last word group captain
42:08alawar please go ahead uh ma'am in your previous comment you mentioned what can tech do since i run
42:14a tech company now i tell you what the tech can do all the airlines are meditated by the icow rules
42:20to submit atr forms and they run from a b c d up till n they're called atr forms and dgca collects them
42:28and each of these forms give information informant actual sheet which says these are the resources we
42:34have this is their training status this is what we need to spend this is what we need to kind of
42:40train for all this information is is as such being submitted to dgca in this particular case this is
42:48not a crisis of indigo it is a crisis of india's civilization sector the patient was sick the ministry
42:54waited for the patient to die are now they're ordering you know compensation and post-mortem and all
42:59that there are ways and means available before the dgca approves any new schedule route or slots
43:06they should map the resources you know do the resource mapping first and then go ahead and come
43:11out with rules so in this way we won't have to kind of do the post-mortem we can probably save the
43:16the patient before the patient dies and who paid the ultimate price the citizen you know they'll keep
43:22running for the refunds or the small guy at the counter at indigo you know they had to answer for
43:27questions for which they were neither prepared nor trained for so i hope we get i hope tomorrow is
43:34another day tomorrow perhaps is a better day there's no solution is what is evident at the moment and
43:40perhaps because that is an airline's monopoly which is leading to a crisis of an unprecedented nature
43:47thank you so much for joining us group captain alawad rishabh shah captain panikar and shan sanjay azar
43:53lazar for their thoughts that's all from me thanks so much for watching
43:57you
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