- 3 hours ago
Allegations that pellet guns were used against Cockroach Janta Party (CJP) protesters during demonstrations over alleged exam paper leaks have intensified the political row, with medical records reportedly confirming pellet injuries and legal experts seeking an inquiry into police crowd-control measures.
Category
ЁЯЧЮ
NewsTranscript
00:01Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today, your prime time destination news,
00:06newsmakers, talking points, a big talking point. There's been no breakthrough in the talks between
00:10the government and the Kokrujjanta party. We'll get you all the latest updates on that big story.
00:17Also, the story that India today broke that's creating now a major controversy. Pellet guns,
00:23is it justifiable to use them on protesters as was done in the Delhi protests? Among also my other
00:32guests Chetan Bhagat on why he believes Gen Z is angry. But first, as always, it's time for the
00:40nine headlines at nine. After Prime Minister Modi's midnight video message to the youth, Union Cabinet
00:48clears the Public Examinations Act Amendment Bill. In the meeting, Modi reportedly stressed on the
00:54need for his ministers to stay connected with Gen Z on platforms like Instagram.
01:03Massive overhaul once again in the Education Ministry for a second day in a row on the heels of the
01:07Prime Minister's message. 47 officials shunted out of the national testing agencies. But sources insist
01:14no plans for Dharmendra Pradhan himself to be resigned or asked to go.
01:21CJP remains firm on Pradhan's resignation despite Sonam Vangchuk ending his fast late night.
01:27Reiterates its demand in the second round of talks with the government. Another round expected tomorrow.
01:35It's a complete washout of the first week of the monsoon session with chants of istifa, istifa,
01:40resignation, resignation. Echoing in both houses of parliament, Rahul Gandhi rejects any scope of
01:46discussion till Pradhan resigns.
02:02A day after India today's exclusive report proved the use of pellet guns during the July 20th protest,
02:09Rahul Gandhi brings out a victim of pellet injuries before the media demands an apology from the Prime Minister.
02:17After Delhi University, JNU asked students to avoid joining the Jantar Mantar protests,
02:22even warns of disciplinary action against them. Opposition says this is against democracy.
02:31Chief Justice of India Surya Khan clarifies reports that he claimed he was too busy to watch videos of
02:38the protests. In an exclusive conversation with India today claims he was misquoted,
02:44that Supreme Court never refuses to hear any issue.
02:49Monsoon votes continue to wreak havoc in North and Northeast. At least 47 dead in Assam,
02:54more than 7.2 lakh people affected. In Himachal, Chamba, all 13 on board are killed after a massive
02:59boulder crashes onto a moving vehicle. And at least 15 people, including 12 soldiers,
03:07killed in a suicide bombing in Khyber Pakhtunwa, among the deadliest attacks against the Pakistani army in recent times.
03:26Okay, but the big story at the moment, there has been a massive overhaul by the government of the National
03:32Testing Agency under increasing pressure to act. The Modi government has now said 47 NTA official services
03:39have been terminated and a bigger clean-up will be followed in the primary agency. Education Ministry says
03:46legal and criminal action will be taken against some officials. After the revamp, NTA has opened
03:5220 key posts, seeks four general managers, 16 young professionals to join NTA. So a complete overall of the
04:00National Testing Agency under whose aegis, remember, the neat paper leaks had taken place and there are serious
04:06question marks over the way the NTA has functioned in the past. Piyush Mishra is joining me at the
04:13moment. Piyush, what more can you say? The Prime Minister at midnight yesterday said that there would
04:18be proactive action. Is it very clear Dharmendra Pradhan's resignation not there, but officials
04:24will be made to resign or step away?
04:29Well, Rajdeep, what sources are indicating that Prime Minister Pradhan is not going to resign. Why?
04:33Because resigning is somewhere of practice where you do not fulfill your responsibilities and it's
04:40like running away from your responsibilities. But on the other side, what we are now given to understand
04:45is that this complete overhaul of NTA, 47 officials have been terminated, but terminated sources are also
04:52indicating that legal actions are likely to be taken against these officials and a few
04:59posts have already been notified by NTA and recruitment that will happen in coming few days.
05:05It is a part of the entire overall exercise. Sources are also indicating that in coming days more and
05:11more actions will be taken. Remember that this decision of sacking these 47 officials was taken
05:17after the cabinet meeting. Sources earlier had indicated that the government has made a list of
05:24all the problems within the NTA and very soon the government will be taking action. So in the next few
05:30days you will you will see more and more actions being taken by the government and at the same time
05:36government wants to communicate to the representatives of CJP and protesting students that yes, we are for
05:43education reforms. We will ensure that the strictest possible actions are taken in this entire matter.
05:49Okay, Piyush Prishra joining us with those very latest these days. Appreciate you joining us. Now,
05:53remember the Modi government are represented by JP Nadda and Jitinder Singh, both ministers,
05:58and the Kokruj Janta party held a second round of talks on a neutral venue, the constitution club.
06:03But the deadlock over the paper leak protest continues. The meeting ended without a breakthrough.
06:08Both sides have agreed to meet again on Saturday. The talks come amidst a serious series of developments,
06:14including the transfer of the higher education secretary and Prime Minister Modi's announcement
06:18of a stricter law and exam paper leaks. But the contentious question about Dharmedra Pradhan's
06:23resignation, well, still no answer. Both sides remaining adamant on that. Take a look.
06:32The Narendra Modi government and the Kokruj Janta party held a second round of talks amid the ongoing
06:38protest over paper leaks. This one held at the constitution club also failed to yield a breakthrough.
06:45But both sides will meet again on Saturday.
06:49The Prime Minister of the candidate said it may be a strong.
06:522.5%ious or 5%-6%-9%-9%-9%-9%-9%-9%
07:04-9%-9%-9%-9%-9%-7%-9%-9%-9%-9%.
07:30The talks followed dramatic overnight developments.
07:33First, the higher education secretary Vineet Joshi was transferred out, replaced by Naresh
07:39Paal Gangwa.
07:40Then shortly before midnight, Prime Minister Narendra Modi issued a video statement, interestingly
07:46shot in vertical reel format, intended for the Insta Gen Z crowd.
08:13Barely an hour after Prime Minister Modi's video, activist Sonam Wangchuk broke his fast
08:19in the presence of Union Ministers JP Nadda, Jitendra Singh and Latak Apex body members.
08:44The CJP welcomed Wangchuk's decision to end his fast.
09:02The opposition has reiterated the demand for Education Minister's resignation.
09:27Meanwhile, protests were held in many cities across the country in response to the call
09:32by the CJP.
09:34The agitation has attracted youngsters and thousands who have been holding rallies throughout
09:39this week in solidarity with the protesters in Delhi.
09:44Bureau Report, India Today.
09:49Okay, let me go straight to one of my newsmakers tonight who was there at that very meeting.
09:54Ashutosh Ranka is CJP's spokesperson.
09:56Good to have you, Ashutosh, on the show.
09:58Tell us what exactly happened because it seems at the moment there is no breakthrough.
10:03You all are insistent on Dharmendra Pradhan's resignation.
10:06Sources telling India Today that is not on the table as far as the government is concerned, Ashutosh.
10:12I mean, I don't think that in this government sources really mean anything because in this
10:18government there are only a couple of people who are ultimately calling all the shots.
10:21As far as the meeting is concerned, three of our demands, one of course Mr Pradhan's
10:26designation but also compensation for need affected families and no legal actions against
10:32the protesters.
10:32There was positivity and there was in principle agreement around the compensation and legal cases.
10:38We hope to have a written agreement on those to demand soon.
10:41And as far as Mr Pradhan's designation is concerned, we have made it extremely clear that that is
10:46absolutely non-negotiable.
10:48He has to resign or he has to be either sacked from the cabinet because this is not just about
10:52CJP or the protesting people at Janta Mantra anymore.
10:56There are protests happening all across the country, right?
10:59Not even the ones which are called by CJP.
11:01Yesterday, before the nationwide call for protest today, yesterday there were protests happening
11:05in 150 cities and all these protesters, all these people all over the country have just
11:10one single demand.
11:11They want Mr Pradhan to go.
11:13They want accountability in the system.
11:15They want someone to be responsible for those 21 suicides.
11:18They want someone to take responsibility of everything that is wrong, not just with the
11:22NEET exam but also the CBSE portal, the CUET portal, NEET 2024, 2025 and so many other
11:28papers which have leaked and issues that have come up in the last few years.
11:33No, no, but let's be very clear.
11:35When you are saying Dharmendra Pradhan has to resign otherwise there can be no discussion.
11:39Government says that's not on the table.
11:41That means, you know, what is the end game then?
11:44If there is no basic agreement on this principle demand of yours, where does this go from here?
11:51You are going to talk, we are told again to the government tomorrow.
11:54I don't know about the sources that you are quoting but the discussion we have had with
11:58the government today, there was no clear yes or no.
12:01One minute, you are saying something important.
12:03You are saying the government did not rule out the possibility of Dharmendra Pradhan quitting
12:07or being asked to go?
12:09Absolutely not.
12:10Absolutely not.
12:11The only discussion we have had regarding Mr Pradhan's resignation was that they need to
12:16take this up with the Prime Minister.
12:18There was absolutely no ruling out of Mr Pradhan's resignation otherwise we would not
12:22have even continued the discussion.
12:24You are saying something important.
12:26That you are saying the ministers who met you did not rule out Dharmendra Pradhan's resignation.
12:31Am I clear in your mind?
12:33They said this to you?
12:35Absolutely.
12:36Absolutely.
12:36Absolutely.
12:37The government was very, the delegation was very clear that we will take this up with
12:41the Prime Minister.
12:42You have raised your concerns.
12:43You have highlighted the gravity of the issue.
12:45There was absolutely no, no go as far as the delegation is concerned because otherwise
12:51the discussion would not have even continued for a minute.
12:55That's an important news flash you are giving us.
12:57But I, you know, I want to understand from you, was any timeframe discussed as to your planning
13:02to meet again?
13:03Did the minister say within 24 hours we will come back to you?
13:06Yes.
13:07So, the discussion was like we will have more forward movement on some of these demands
13:13tomorrow.
13:14And probably around 3.34, the exact time remains to be confirmed.
13:17And we have made it very clear that this is a ticking thing.
13:20This is not something that can go on for weeks and months because there are protests
13:23happening all over the country.
13:26Not just from CJP, but all across the country there are protests happening.
13:30And this is a ticking thing.
13:32More you wait, more the discontentment grows, more the anger grows.
13:35And now increasingly that discontentment, that anger is being directed at the Prime Minister.
13:40So, this government also needs to understand that very soon this might not even be limited
13:45to Mr. Pradhan.
13:47How do you respond to those who say that asking for Dharmendra Pradhan has become your
13:51majburi, your compulsion?
13:53Because you also know that if you bend on that, that's the end of your protest, that's
13:57the end of your agitation.
13:58So, you have no option now left but to keep pursuing this.
14:02Remember, Sonam Vangchuk has ended his fast without demanding Dharmendra Pradhan's resignation.
14:07You are telling me y'all are not going to back off till the minister resigns?
14:12No, Rajdeep, this is not even about CJP anymore.
14:16This is what the people of this country want.
14:19This is not just about what's happening at Jantar Mantar or what's happening on the stage
14:23here at Jantar Mantar.
14:24The people of this country want Mr. Pradhan gone.
14:27Even if you arrest us, even if you somehow just call off this protest and just, you know,
14:33detain us and make sure that there is no one protesting at the Jantar Mantar.
14:35The people of this country are not going to stop until Mr. Pradhan goes.
14:39And that's exactly what this government needs to understand.
14:43But there will be those who will say, Ashutosh, that Dharmendra Pradhan resigning is not going
14:48to change anything.
14:49You seem to have now made the entire issue about the minister, not about the education system
14:54or about paper leaks.
14:55The Prime Minister says, I'm being proactive.
14:57He gave a full selfie video yesterday saying we will proactively act on paper leaks.
15:02You don't trust him?
15:03The Prime Minister had to wait for 45 days since the first protest happened.
15:07The Prime Minister had to wait for almost two months since the paper got leaked for him
15:12to get proactive.
15:13What was he doing in those last two months?
15:16That's what you need to answer the question.
15:19Why did it take the Prime Minister suddenly a couple of months to come up with a selfie video
15:24in the midnight?
15:26What is this proactivity?
15:28What is he trying to really fix?
15:30We have seen so much of this theatrics.
15:32We are done with this.
15:33We want accountability.
15:34We want someone to be held responsible for what has happened in the last few months
15:38and last few years in this country.
15:39And Dharmendra Paddan has to go.
15:41And it's notтАж
15:44It's not our majburi.
15:45This is what the people of this country want.
15:49You are saying it isтАж
15:50This is what the people of the country want.
15:52The people of the country also presumably want an education system that improves.
15:56No paper leaks.
15:57You are telling me that the very start of this process has to be the resignation of the minister.
16:02Am I correct?
16:04Absolutely.
16:04And we have alsoтАж
16:07I'm sorry.
16:07We have also given a very clear-cut demand charter.
16:11A five-pointer demand charter that was released by us a couple of weeks ago.
16:16That talks about broader reforms in the exam system.
16:20That demand charter has also been shared with the delegation today.
16:25And we really hope that in the next few days the government will also start acting on these demand charters.
16:31Stay rest assured.
16:32We are a bunch of educated people.
16:34We know what broader reforms look like.
16:37What structural reforms look like.
16:40We are not people of the people of the government.
16:42We have backgrounds in policy.
16:44We have backgrounds in engineering.
16:46We've all studied from good colleges.
16:48We know what structural reforms look like.
16:49But how do you even talk about structural reforms when the person heading ministries is incompetent?
16:55You know, there are two other demands you've made.
16:58One is all FIRs have to be withdrawn.
17:00Has the government committed to you that they will withdraw all FIRs against any of the protesters irrespective of the
17:05nature of the supposed crime?
17:07Was that a commitment made to you?
17:09So we have made, we have asked the government that all the FIRs that have been filed so far on
17:17the protesters in the events leading up to 20th July and the event of 20th July, they need to be
17:23withdrawn.
17:23And we need a sovereign guarantee that no such FIRs targeting peaceful protesters will be filed in the future.
17:30There was in principle agreement, there was positive response from the delegation.
17:34And I hope that there is a written agreement that all of us can agree upon.
17:39And also on the one crore compensation for families of those who committed suicide or died by suicide during the
17:45need.
17:46Is there a commitment from the government to look at that?
17:49That again has seen an in principle agreement.
17:52The exact details of the compensation should hopefully be finalized very soon.
17:57You know, I'm listening to you, I can see you're coughing.
17:59You've gone through a tough time.
18:01There have been worries of course that, you know, many of you are now reaching exhaustion point.
18:07Has your protests, is it, are you all getting slowly exhausted?
18:11Do you feel you're being tired out or do you believe the protests will be even more energized because the
18:15weekend is coming?
18:17No, I'll not, I'll not hide the fact that we are really tired and exhausted.
18:22It's been 35 days, we are not seasoned protesters.
18:256 June when I, when Deepke landed, I was the one who took him from the airport to Jantar Mantar.
18:32That's actually the first time I even saw Jantar Mantar.
18:35Right?
18:35So we are not seasoned protesters.
18:36This is all very new for us.
18:37This is very overwhelming for us.
18:39Last 35 days we have been at Jantar Mantar.
18:41Deepke sleeps there daily.
18:43I sleep there almost every, every other day or four, five times a week.
18:48So this is all very exhausting.
18:49But then every day when we see, when we wake up, we see these hundreds and thousands of people right
18:54in front of our eyes.
18:55That's our morning view.
18:56And we see hopes in, hopes in their eyes.
18:58We see determination in their eyes and, and that's what keeps us going.
19:02Will, will Sonam Vangchuk still be part of your protest?
19:05Do you expect him, want him to come to Jantar Mantar?
19:08Because him breaking the fast with JP Nadda sent out the message that he seems to have made his peace
19:13with the government.
19:15So we are so happy that sir ended his fast, fast yesterday.
19:18We have been requesting him to end his fast for, for a few days now because we are really, really
19:22concerned about his health.
19:24And we are so, so proud and honored to have, you know, worked under his guidance.
19:28He has ignited the entire country.
19:31People have rallied behind him and the people have really woken up because Sonam Vangchuk sir was, was with this
19:37movement.
19:38And it's, it's so, so inspiring that he could have very much ended his fast a few days ago.
19:44But he, he, he negotiated hard with the government and he made sure that the government gives a commitment on
19:51the legal cases and on the compensation.
19:53I really, really wish that he gets well soon and then he's able to visit Jantar Mantar.
19:59When you fast for 25, 26 days, you need to initially rest in hospital under very controlled conditions for at
20:06least few days.
20:06But I really hope that as soon as he gets well, we all will see him at Jantar Mantar.
20:11My final question, we've got a protest likely to take place in different parts.
20:16I know in Mumbai, there are protests taking place tomorrow.
20:18Are you all in any more in control of this movement?
20:20Have you all lost control?
20:21You yourself seem to admit as much that this is now gone even beyond the CJP and Sonam Vangchuk.
20:27Well, I think this is not even about control.
20:29This is about the fact that the youth of this country has woken up.
20:33The youth of this country has finally stood up.
20:35They don't anymore fear this government.
20:38They stand for their rights.
20:40They stand for what's right.
20:41As I speak, my hometown Jaipur, there has been a protest going on for 36 hours.
20:47That protest will go on tonight as well.
20:49There's no leader.
20:50And yet people are sitting there peacefully.
20:52They are singing.
20:53They are chanting slogans.
20:55All of them are demanding Dharmendra Pradhan's resignation.
20:57This is a country which has finally found its voice.
21:00This is a generation that has finally found its voice.
21:03And we are so, so, so proud of everyone and anyone who has stood up.
21:07And we are so proud that we are the ones who have been the halvingers of change, who have facilitated
21:12this movement.
21:14And we are more than happy that people are taking control.
21:17People are driving this movement and people will eventually lead this movement.
21:22But you are not worried about anti-social elements, violent groups taking it over.
21:27That's been the fear, of course.
21:28We saw some of it on the 20th.
21:30Isn't that a fear?
21:31Even Sonam Vangchuk has expressed that fear.
21:34That, you know, if the movement turns violent, you get discredited overnight.
21:38No, I like the word anti-social elements because it's a diplomatic term for BJP goons.
21:44BJP goons can do whatever they want.
21:46That's exactly what they know.
21:47To incite people to do Gundagardi, to do Marpeet.
21:51That's completely fine.
21:52That's exactly what they know.
21:54When I hear you say that or those who hear you say that will say therefore this movement has now
21:58become anti-BJP, anti-Modi.
22:00It's more about politics, less about the students.
22:03Absolutely not, Razdeep.
22:04You just see the profiles of the one who attacked Deepke in Jaipur.
22:07Or you see the profile of the one who attacked one of our protestant issue's father.
22:11Or you see the profile of the lady who threw ink on Deepke.
22:15It's not me who is saying this.
22:17It's the fact.
22:18You just check out their profiles.
22:19That's exactly what they do.
22:20That's exactly all they know.
22:22They can't debate on education.
22:24They can't debate on policy.
22:26Well, some of them can.
22:27Well, some of them can, of course.
22:28But most of them can't.
22:30And that's exactly what they can do.
22:31They can come fight it out.
22:33They can do Gundagardi.
22:35They can beat peaceful protesters and they'll continue doing so.
22:38But we don't fear them anymore.
22:40The people of this country don't fear them anymore.
22:42And the protests will go on peacefully as it has been for a while.
22:48Ashutosh, let me leave it there.
22:49I appreciate you joining us.
22:51I remember two months ago when the story broke of the paper leaks.
22:54You had given me a detail of how paper leaks had taken place long before the CJP was formed.
22:59Good to have you on the show.
23:00Stay well.
23:00You don't seem looking very well.
23:02I hope you get better come tomorrow.
23:04Thanks very much for joining me here on the show tonight.
23:08Okay.
23:09We've heard from Ashutosh.
23:10Let's now turn across to the BJP.
23:12Sudhanshu Trivedi, senior BJP MP, who I spoke to a short while ago.
23:17Sudhanshu ji, CJP adamant, Dharmendra Pradhan must go.
23:21They said that is a non-negotiable demand.
23:23How do you respond?
23:24Is the government willing to reconsider on its tough stand, which has taken so far and
23:29asked Dharmendra Pradhan to resign now?
23:35As far as government is concerned, government is very sensitive and active how to solve
23:41the problem of the students.
23:43And as you have seen that yesterday our senior leader JP Nadda ji and Jiten Singh ji has gone
23:52and he has requested and persuaded Sonam Vangchuk ji to end his fast.
23:57You have seen that today Nadda ji and Jiten Singh ji has met even without any ego ready
24:07to meet them outside the government office or government house.
24:12You have seen yesterday Prime Minister has categorically said to set up the fast track
24:17codes.
24:18Today you have seen that in union cabinet a very strong stringent bill to curb this meanness
24:25of paper leak has been passed.
24:27So as far as the government is concerned, we are working proactively.
24:32Changes in NTA and the structured changes are going on.
24:35On the other hand, if you look at it.
24:37No, no.
24:37Two questions.
24:39Two questions come from what you've just told me Sudhanshu ji.
24:42One you seem to suggest, whatever else happens, no resignation of Dharmendra Pradhan.
24:48You will remove NTA officials.
24:49You will remove the chain, the education secretary, but Dharmendra Pradhan ji will not be touched.
24:54Am I correct?
24:58Whatever has been asked, there has to be some reasoning about it.
25:03If at present, this paper leak is concerned, Rajdeep ji, I would like to remind, this was
25:09a very peculiar case in the entire history.
25:11Usually paper leak happens from the paper setter to the printer and from printer to the examination
25:16center.
25:17But for the first time, the paper setter itself has leaked the paper.
25:21How you can fix the responsibility of the minister on that?
25:23For example, any judge who pronounces the judgment, it seems that before the judgment
25:28is pronounced, it remains confidential.
25:31But if the judge himself who is writing the judgment has leaked it, can it be fixed on
25:37CJI or others?
25:38No.
25:38So whatever, whosoever comes and government is very meticulously and sincerely finding out
25:45those.
25:46And prime minister had said that they will not spare anybody who is found guilty.
25:50But there has to be some reasoning, at least some substantive evidence or some substantive
25:56logic or reasoning rather than a verbose and flimsy allegation.
26:01And one more thing, if you look at what Sonam Vangchug has said, he said that there should
26:08be a discussion in parliament.
26:09We asked the opposition, yes, we are ready for discussion.
26:13Then they said, under this rule, under that rule.
26:16So for that, Rajdeep ji, I would like to remind, when opposition is asking to discuss
26:20in Rajya Sabha under rule number 267, rule number 267 says that whenever the discussion
26:26takes place, it is finally answered by the consent minister.
26:30And you are saying that the minister should resign first, then who will give the answer?
26:34Then comes, if the session is in progress, any minister resigns.
26:37The resignation has to be on the floor of the house.
26:39And on the floor of the house, if minister says something is considered the statement of
26:43the minister and rules say that after the statement of minister, no discussion can be
26:47there.
26:47So kindly, our opponent, let me know what logic says, what the rules say.
26:52But the problem is they are not interested in rule.
26:55They are more interested in ruckus.
26:56You know, you are saying they are not interested in rules, interested in creating ruckus.
27:00But the second part from what you said in your opening remark, you know, suddenly we see
27:04the Modi government proactive on the issue.
27:06The prime minister gave a selfie video at midnight.
27:09Has the Modi government been put on the back foot?
27:13Till a few days ago, the government did not even recognize the Kaukruj Janta party.
27:17No discussion, no engagement.
27:19Suddenly, JP Nadda, Jeetendra Singh holding meetings with them.
27:22You are engaging now with these representatives.
27:25Has the government been pushed Mr. Trivedi on the back foot and been forced to negotiate?
27:31The prime minister forced virtually to give this video at midnight as a damage limitation exercise.
27:39Yes, I will tell you.
27:41Government is fully sympathetic and sensitive towards the student.
27:44But as far as you are saying, the so-called proactive actions are concerned or the so-called back foot
27:50action is concerned.
27:51I would like to tell you where we are ready to talk.
27:54But there has to be some designated person to talk with defined demands.
27:59As soon as they designated the two persons, Naddaji met them.
28:04And when Naddaji asked, where are your demands?
28:06So, look at what was the reply.
28:08We haven't brought any demand.
28:09We will come after 4 p.m.
28:11So, this shows that either non-seriousness or immaturity on the part of them.
28:16The moment an official designated demand has come, the government had started acting on it.
28:22Second thing, if you are talking about the time, I would like to say, first duty of the government was
28:27to conduct successfully and get the result announced of the NEET.
28:30So, that was the first duty.
28:32Because those 11 lakh students who has got qualified, they are very much happy about it.
28:37But the problem is, Rajdeepji, one sentence I would like to say.
28:41Do you know what is the crux of this issue?
28:43Before NEET 2016, there has used to be an auctioning of the seats of the medical in private colleges.
28:51For MBBS, 25 lakhs to 50 lakhs.
28:54And for post-graduate, 50 lakhs to 1 crore.
28:56There was no scope for middle class and lower middle class and common man.
28:59They cannot imagine in their dream to have 50 lakhs or 1 crore to admission.
29:04Now, Prime Minister has bought this NEET examination.
29:07Now, everybody is having an opportunity.
29:09And those who are getting hundreds of crore per year, in which anybody can go and check.
29:1490% of the people are related to Congress Party.
29:18They are closed their house.
29:19That's why the problem is happening.
29:21Now, you have seen in the Jaunpur, an autodriver's son has got selected.
29:25Did he ever give him 25 lakhs or 50 lakhs?
29:28So, that's why...
29:30Sir, we will have a separate debate on the NEET exam itself structure.
29:34But I want to know immediately the political endgame.
29:36Parliament, full first week, no work done.
29:39Opposition saying minister must resign before discussion.
29:43CJP on the street said Jantar Mantar saying minister must resign.
29:46And the protests are broadening behind Delhi.
29:48What is the endgame?
29:54Yes, obviously, your question is quite valid.
29:58The endgame ends when the ball is hit in the goal.
30:02But when the opposition party is consistently changing the goalpost,
30:07they are changing the one demand after the other.
30:09When government is ready to discuss on the floor of the house,
30:13why you are driving away?
30:15Why you are walking away?
30:17Why you are running away?
30:19On one pretext or the other.
30:21So, hum charcha chayate hain aur woh bhaag rahe hain.
30:23This is the problem.
30:25Otherwise...
30:25And one more thing.
30:26You know that Sonam Vangchuk's wife has said,
30:30ki why Congress has not gone to Jantar Mantar?
30:32Because there is a tough competition between the opposition parties.
30:36And Rajdeepdi, I would like to say, if they are saying that the government is having some ego issue,
30:40it's not at all.
30:41But...
30:43No, no, but you see, you know, let me say,
30:47you know, you are saying there is competition between the parties,
30:50between the opposition parties,
30:51but also Sonam Vangchuk's wife in the interview to me also said,
30:55BJP is neither Hindu nor nationalistic.
30:57So she questioned the competition also in the,
31:02that's taking place in the opposition, but also questioned the BJP.
31:08Okay, that I agree.
31:09That I agree, sir.
31:10D.P.K.
31:11Abhijeeb D.P.K.
31:13is an ex-carder of Aamadni Party.
31:16Sonam Vangchuk's father was Congress in the Congress.
31:18Yogendra Yadav, who has said that from now onwards,
31:21the elections will not decide, the resistance will decide.
31:23He has said that the solution will not come from parliament,
31:26but from the road.
31:26Who is he?
31:27He's a founder member of Aamadni Party,
31:29and member of the super cabinet of UPA,
31:31National Advisory Council headed by Sonia Gandhi.
31:33He was a member.
31:34So now anybody can see what is the face and what is the mask.
31:39Okay, let me leave it there.
31:40Sudhanshu Trivedi joining me there.
31:42Combative as ever.
31:43Appreciate you joining me on the show.
31:45Let's turn now to the impact of that big India Today exclusive,
31:48where we blew the lid on those who are trying to suggest
31:51no pellet guns were used in the Delhi protests on Monday.
31:55The truth is, they were.
31:56A protest, a police crackdown, and the pellet gun controversy.
32:00The Delhi police consistently denied it, but as we showed,
32:04the medical reports clearly mentioned pellet injuries
32:07suffered at least by one protester.
32:09Another is reportedly at risk of losing vision in one eye.
32:13Today, those allegations were raised by Rahul Gandhi.
32:16So who is accountable for these alleged pellet injuries?
32:20The controversy, far from over.
32:22Take a look.
32:29A protest.
32:34A police crackdown.
32:39And now allegations of pellet gun injuries during the July 20 crackdown
32:43in and around Jantar Mantar, Delhi.
32:46The government and Delhi police denied the allegations.
32:51But India Today has now found evidence backing
32:54at least one protester's claim of pellet injuries.
32:59A 25-year-old protester who took part in the march
33:03was treated at Safdarjung Hospital.
33:09His medical records specifically mention pellet wounds.
33:13And his testimony details how the alleged firing took place.
33:19The protester told India Today he was moving around the protest site
33:24when police began firing tear gas shells.
33:27Initially, he says, shots were fired into the air.
33:32Later, he alleges, police fired towards the crowd.
33:36He claims he saw a cop aim a gun at him.
33:40Before he was hit on his back and right elbow.
33:43He says, if he had not run, the pellet could have hit his face.
33:49He described the sensation as hot metal piercing his flesh.
33:55His back, he said, felt like it was on fire.
33:59Blood was dripping from the wounds.
34:02And he says he never expected to be shot at.
34:06And he's not the only alleged victim.
34:10Another protester, Sahil Lochaab, is at risk of losing vision in Manai
34:15after sustaining pellet injuries during the July 20th protest.
34:44The issue was picked up by leader of opposition Rahul Gandhi on Friday.
34:49After meeting injured protesters, Rahul displayed their injuries
34:53and accused the government of using excessive force against students.
35:00The government said that there was no pellet gun used.
35:04They say it was a pellet gun.
35:06In this case, thousands of years, there was a pellet gun,
35:11there was a pellet gun, there was a gun, there was a gun, there was a gun, there was a
35:15gun.
35:17But Delhi police continues to deny the allegations.
35:20The force says it does not possess pellet guns and did not use them against protesters.
35:27But this is where the controversy deepens.
35:31Pellet guns are part of the anti-riot arsenal, of the CRPF's Rapid Action Force.
35:37And the RAF was deployed alongside Delhi police in and around Jantar Mantar on July 20th.
35:45The central force was deployed at the request of Delhi police
35:49and operated under its control during the incident.
35:54India today sought a response from the CRPF on the allegations.
35:59The force declined to comment.
36:04So the question now is not just who fired the pellets.
36:08The bigger question is if Delhi police says it does not possess pellet guns
36:13and the RAF was deployed at the protest site,
36:16who is accountable for the injuries suffered by the protesters.
36:21What began as an allegation of excessive force is now backed by medical records.
36:26And the pellet gun controversy is far from over.
36:30Bureau Report, India today.
36:35Let's raise some big questions.
36:37Is the use of pellet guns justifiable in a case like this?
36:40Should the forces have avoided using pellet guns on the protestors?
36:43Are there clear SOPs for pellet gun use or not?
36:47Joining me now, Vrinda Grover, Senior Advocate,
36:50Supreme Court, Arvind Kumar Jain, former DGP of Uttar Pradesh, joins us.
36:54Let me come to you, Vrinda, first.
36:56Do you believe that the government needs to come clean on pellet guns?
37:00We've heard of pellet guns being used in Jammu and Kashmir.
37:03This is the first time we are hearing of them being used on a protest in Delhi.
37:06Does the government, in your view, need to come clean?
37:10Absolutely, because what we are hearing are denials by the Delhi police.
37:14There were two forces that were deployed that day, the RAF as well as Delhi police.
37:21Delhi police is saying we did not deploy it.
37:24Pellet guns are in the armory of the anti-riot unit of CRPF, which is RAF.
37:31So, you know, this is very tragic that we are talking about unarmed protestors suffering multiple injuries.
37:40And one is, I'm told there is an issue of an eye, a loss of vision in one eye.
37:46And the police is busy playing a little game about it's not us.
37:50I'm not going to tell you what the man in the other colored uniform is.
37:53The state is responsible to, in any case, to use a weapon of this nature.
38:00There is a very strict guidance which law has laid down when certain kinds of weapons are used.
38:08The Bureau of Police Research and Development, the BPRD, which comes under the MHA,
38:13had way back put out a manual called crowd control.
38:16Yes, in India, a pellet gun is classified as a less lethal weapon or a non-lethal, sometimes it's called.
38:24Right.
38:25The purpose is what is the nature of the crowd and the principles of necessity and proportionality,
38:34both in the use of force and choice of weapons, at all times have to guide it.
38:41This protest, it is undeniable nobody was armed.
38:47There were multiple other ways in which crowd control takes place.
38:52This was used and now we know for a fact that there are three and there perhaps a fourth,
38:59that is still under investigation, where pellet gun has been used.
39:04The minute pellet gun.
39:05And what is a pellet gun?
39:06Where did it come from?
39:07Originally, it used to be something that you shoot birds which are flying in the air with.
39:11It has then been devised as a 12 gauge shotgun with a pump.
39:16And what it throws out is that in the cartridge, there are 500 to 600 metal pellets.
39:26The law says, do not use metal pellets.
39:29You can also use plastic or other rubber.
39:32The ones that are used here because they've been taken out by the medical doctors are metal pellets.
39:39This, when used in less than 500 meters, turns into a lethal weapon because it will explode.
39:47The cartridge will explode.
39:48There will be a complete shower of pellets.
39:52Those pellets will not only strike that person, the extander, it can strike any part of the body.
39:59And we are seeing injury on vital organs like the eyes.
40:02I've heard youтАж
40:03So, this is a reckless force to intimidate.
40:07I've heard you very patiently.
40:08Two words that have struck.
40:09Necessity and proportionality.
40:11Mr. Jain, should the police, whether it's RAF, you know this,
40:15we didn't do it, RAF, you knowтАж
40:18RAF could have done it.
40:19Delhi police is trying to be in denial.
40:22Proportionality and necessity.
40:24Doesn't the security forces and the Home Ministry of the country have to answer that?
40:29What was the necessity to use these pellet guns?
40:33Was the principle of proportionality observed?
40:37Number one, inquiry is on from RAF site as to who has fired pellet guns.
40:47If somebody has fired, there are allegations that RAF men, they have fired from pellet guns.
40:56Number two, inquiry will prove as to where this thing took place incidentally.
41:03It's part of the riot control equipment, the riot control equipment which are issued to RAF.
41:09Pellet gun is part of that.
41:12And they, a few of them, they carry it for serious kind of law and order duties,
41:18as they used to carry these guns at JNK also.
41:23Now it is to be decided, it is a subjudice also in High Court, that who has fired?
41:29Delhi police has denied it.
41:32And it is correct that Delhi police doesn't carry pellet guns during law and order duties.
41:38Delhi bombs, tear gas shells, pellet guns, they are used in extreme law and order situations.
41:50I don't know whether RAF person has fired.
41:54If he has fired, he should own up.
41:56And he should justify why he fired.
41:59Okay.
42:00So you are saying that there needs to be a proper full inquiry wherein the RAF should justify why they
42:05used it.
42:06Vinda Grover, a final word from you, a quick final word?
42:08Yes.
42:09The videos are available in the public domain.
42:12The person who has fired it can be seen.
42:16It has been fired in the area near Palika Bazaar.
42:19Actually, it's fascinating what is happening in the country just now.
42:23All agencies of the state are in denial mode.
42:28Citizens are undertaking active investigation of the digital media, which is available in the public domain.
42:35I have seen that video.
42:37It is also available in what vicinity were there.
42:40Two of them, it has been established, were in close vicinity to each other.
42:44The RAF person who is holding the gun can be seen.
42:49If I see it and I'm an ordinary citizen, I do not know what is holding the RAF back.
42:56This has nothing to do with, this is not some deep rooted inquiry that is needed.
43:01When a weapon is given to a personnel, there is a logbook where an entry is made.
43:08All this is documented.
43:10All the people of the country can see it, sir.
43:12However, the sooner the forces tell us categorically, the confidence which must be there of the citizen will be restored.
43:21The crowd control manual of BPRD says, and I will read one line,
43:26The crowd is not an enemy to be annihilated, but fellow citizens who have to be dealt with in a
43:33manner which brings the least harm to them.
43:36We are reminding the forces of their obligations.
43:41Let me leave it there, Rinda Grover, Mr. Jain.
43:44I appreciate both of you joining us.
43:45Clearly what we are saying, there should be an inquiry.
43:48I'll come with my take on that in a moment.
43:50But is it justifiable to use pellet guns on protesters?
43:53This is what is being said on Twitter.
43:56Darshan Joshi, yes, one, they are not students only and they defied prohibitory orders.
44:00Now question to you, what would have happened if they were not controlled?
44:04Even after action, some of them did reach sunset.
44:07Aman Kumar says, a ruling party that's in habit of calling every protester a terrorist or foreign agent will be
44:13left alone one day.
44:14Some of those strong reactions coming in.
44:16And my take, let me bring you my take on that.
44:20Pellet guns have no place in dealing with student protests.
44:24Whatever the provocation, the use of a weapon that can cause permanent blindness and life-altering injuries is wholly disproportionate
44:33and unacceptable.
44:34A democratic state must distinguish between controlling a crowd and inflicting irreversible harm on its own young citizens.
44:43Those responsible for violence, vandalism or stone pelting must face the law.
44:48But indiscriminate use of pellet guns as a sign of some kind of collective punishment crosses a constitutional and moral
44:57red line.
44:58Is simply unacceptable.
45:01Read my lips.
45:02If students are leaving protests with shattered eyes, something has gone terribly wrong.
45:08So for God's sake, stop living in denial.
45:11Stop the pellet guns.
45:13May I add, restraint is not a sign of weakness.
45:17It is often the true strength of a democracy.
45:22Think about it.
45:24Okay, now one person who has been in the spotlight over this issue is the Chief Justice of India.
45:30Justice Surya Khan.
45:31Just a couple of days ago, he was quoted as saying that he had no time to watch the videos
45:36as demanded by a petitioner before him.
45:40Now he has clarified those reports that he claimed he was too busy.
45:43In an exclusive conversation with Anisha Mathur.
45:47He says he was misquoted and the Supreme Court never refuses to hear an issue.
45:51Listen in.
45:54One and other issue has been with regard to the comments that have been made.
45:58A lot is being said about you being misquoted.
46:03Yes, I said very firmly in the court that I have been misquoted.
46:09Unfortunately, the correct reporting is not being made.
46:13Somebody started making mention of listing of a matter which he has never filed.
46:17So what to do with that kind of case?
46:19So I had to tell them that please don't waste your time and my time.
46:22Because you don't file the case what I am going to hear.
46:25I can hear only when you file a petition.
46:27Therefore, I had to advise the consult.
46:29The young lawyers, they should learn it.
46:30They should understand the seriousness of the court proceedings.
46:34These are very solemn proceedings in nature.
46:36And they should respect the procedure that has been laid down under the rules.
46:40So this is how I commented.
46:43And I believe there was nothing wrong in that.
46:48Misquoted.
46:49Okay.
46:50Now the fact is that the Kokruj Janta Party protests have found an echo beyond the political sphere.
46:56As the debate intensifies, leading film personalities, even cricketers, sports person are backing the students
47:02and are calling for a fairer and more transparent education system.
47:06From Salman Khan, who initially called the paper leaks a serious issue.
47:10Alia Bhatt, Kareena Kapoor, Mahmoodi, R. Madhavan, Diljit Dosanj all voicing their support.
47:16Actors including Shabana Azmi, Prakash Raj and Swara Bhaskar have visited the protest site.
47:22And then you've got the likes of Sachin Tendulkar and Abhinav Bindra who've also expressed their concerns.
47:28So lots of celebrities speaking out.
47:30Now I don't know whether he's a celebrity or not, but he's certainly a best-selling author.
47:34Chetan Bhagat is someone I spoke to earlier today.
47:39He writes often about the dreams and disillusionments of young Indians in his books.
47:43Chetan, how do you see what is being described as this Gen Z digital revolt?
47:48Are you surprised by what you've seen happening over the last week?
47:55There's a bit of surprise in everyone, but it can be explained.
48:00It's an explainable surprise.
48:02Firstly, the anger was always there.
48:04The NEAT issue, the paper leaks issue was even an issue in the Lok Sabha 24 election.
48:09It was just not highlighted as one of the top ones.
48:12Even when the BJP performance went down, other factors were ascribed.
48:16But the youth discontent was never cited as the main reason why the BJP lost seats.
48:25Now, what is surprising is the extent of the spread of this.
48:30And that has happened because people felt this generation will never leave their phones.
48:35They will never come out.
48:37They are addicted to their phones.
48:39They are all digital warriors.
48:41They will never come on the streets.
48:44However, they did this time.
48:46And then the government gave them a gift, a content gold they gave them,
48:52which is images of Delhi police cops, full, you know, hatta-katta cops,
48:59wearing riot gear, visor helmets, armor gear to protect themselves,
49:06and danda after like kids, some 16-year-old girls also.
49:11I mean, you wake up to that, that has to trigger a huge emotional response.
49:18And that's what exactly happened.
49:21There were some people who came for the protests.
49:23It was like many other protests in the country.
49:25It wasn't that big.
49:26But this lati charge on the kids led to extremely viral moment,
49:31which then the kids started going, then they said,
49:34if I post on Instagram, my followers love me, I get likes,
49:37and so on and so forth.
49:38So the real regeneration reels became gen real.
49:44And then from real, they are now also making reels only.
49:46It doesn't mean that the issue is not real, Rajdeep.
49:51It doesn't mean they don't have a valid issue.
49:53But this is a gift they got of content.
49:55Because this generation loves content.
49:57And the content this protest is generating is of the insane virality,
50:01extremely sticky and entertaining.
50:02But can I just stop you for a moment?
50:05Because, you know, you mentioned the word Instagram.
50:08I was on our Hindi digital program, Lalantop's Neta Nagari.
50:12I was asked by the anchor what I thought had changed between this protest
50:15and previous ones I've covered over 35 years.
50:17And I said Instagram's role.
50:20The ability for anyone to have the power to put out a 30 second powerful video.
50:24The video then goes viral.
50:26Do you believe that's one of the big changes?
50:28Instagram has become a powerful weapon of protest to bring all these groups together.
50:36Instagram and particularly one feature in Instagram called Instagram Reels,
50:39which is the short form video, in which within three seconds you have to grab attention.
50:44Second, it has to be something very dramatic.
50:47Like somebody eating 100 burgers at the same time.
50:50It could be anything like that.
50:51Something crazy.
50:52Something very, very unfair.
50:55Something very out there.
50:56Like 100 people, Indians dancing on the Eiffel Tower.
51:00Crazy like that.
51:02In this case, big cops hitting teenagers.
51:06Whoa!
51:07Like that is...
51:08And why?
51:09What do the teenagers want?
51:10They didn't want more reservation.
51:12They didn't want money.
51:13They didn't want jobs.
51:14They just wanted fairness.
51:15And they're getting beaten up.
51:17Like it will be an explosion.
51:19And so Instagram compared to X or Twitter,
51:23the difference is it needs a video.
51:24It needs emotive content.
51:27And this protest generated that.
51:30And it continues to generate that.
51:31Now more kids are going.
51:32This weekend you wait and watch the level of participation that will come.
51:36The exponential growth function people underestimate.
51:39You know.
51:40So this weekend will be insane.
51:42And yeah, it is all Instagram driven.
51:44So let's Chetan compare this with what we saw during the Anna agitation.
51:48Because you were there to support team Anna.
51:50That was 2011.
51:51What's the difference between 2011 and 2026?
51:53What has changed?
51:58The...
51:59What has changed is there is data.
52:01Very cheap, fast internet.
52:03And so you and I have seen the same video in the matter of hours.
52:07We've probably seen the same videos on the protest.
52:10We've seen the same video.
52:11It wasn't so fast in 2011.
52:12So then it's like for the governments.
52:16I really want to be constructive.
52:18They have to act very fast, very strong, very dramatically.
52:25Not lip service, not tokenisms.
52:28Because every hour they delay this, the more this spreads.
52:32Now it's only gone to few cities.
52:35It's like Anna movement was well attended.
52:38But people tell me in Delhi the crowds are much bigger than what they were in Anna movement.
52:43Already.
52:43Okay, Mr. Bhagat, let me give you my... your Insta moment.
52:47I'm giving you 30 seconds, max a minute.
52:50If you had a message for this young, restless, impatient, angry generation, what would that be?
52:57Give me a message for them here today.
53:01Yeah, that's right.
53:02You know, we are not of that generation.
53:05But all I would...
53:06I mean, if you just give me 30 seconds, I'll say it's very brave of you that you guys are
53:10doing this.
53:11That you guys are... you guys make us all proud.
53:14We all love you.
53:15All our old people.
53:17Yes, you guys judge us.
53:18You say we are old millennials or whatever.
53:20Gen X, baby boomers.
53:22But, you know, we were also Gen Z once.
53:25And it's nice to see that you have the same spark.
53:28What we had in our generation.
53:30And don't forget, you love Instagram and call yourself Gen Z.
53:33But don't forget which generation made Instagram.
53:37Let me leave it there, Chetan Bhagat.
53:39Maybe you need to now write a book that addresses this Instagram generation.
53:45Certainly, I have been struck by the manner which over the last week we've seen Instagram Reels simply proliferate.
53:52The creativity, the anger, the humor at times.
53:56And maybe all governments now need to understand and start engaging with Instagrammers.
54:02Next time, when someone says the word cockroach, don't run away.
54:07Engage with the cockroach.
54:09There's a lesson there.
54:11We've run out of time on the show right through this week.
54:14We've focused on this.
54:15We've brought you a variety of voices.
54:17I appreciate as always all of you joining us.
54:20Stay well.
54:21Stay safe.
54:23Jai Hind.
54:23Namaskar Shubratri.
54:25That was the news without the noise.
54:27Bye for now.
54:28Bye.
Comments