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Irresistible Why We Can't Stop Eating
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00:03my friends my family think i'm obsessed with this i mean they're right i am i mean look at this
00:11so this this is what we're walking through is the food environment
00:14we could be anywhere in the uk it's all industrially processed food
00:22it's extremely convenient it's very cheap and it's so appealing
00:30and yet we know that this food environment is driving a catastrophe
00:35the evidence is increasingly clear that pre-prepared packaged highly processed food
00:41is linked to weight gain obesity some cancers dementia type 2 diabetes and early death from all
00:49causes we're in the middle of a food crisis but we can't stop eating and if you want to understand
00:57wipe you have to go and speak to people who have worked inside the food industry
01:03we've worked with heinz cadbury's pringles that's custom campbell's soup
01:07unilever pepsico kellogg dr pepper these foods are engineered to be addictive
01:16how have we sleepwalked into this situation
01:22what is the food we eat today doing to our minds and how has it become so irresistible
01:34we'll be left a sick and impoverished nation according to former government foods are
01:40if we don't do something about our junk food habit
01:46my name's chris van tilliken i'm an nhs doctor i'm a scientist and i'm part of a growing group of
01:52doctors and academics who are increasingly worried about the effect that the global food system is
01:59having on all of us when it comes to obesity the way that we've understood the problem is it's a
02:03failure
02:04of willpower people are just making bad choices they're somewhat lazy it's basically their fault
02:11this is american government data for men and women of all different ages the different lines of
02:15different ages for obesity what you see is between 1960 and 1975 there's a fairly steady percentage of
02:23obesity in the population but in the mid 1970s obesity starts going up in all of the groups simultaneously
02:33now if you're saying willpower is responsible what you're proposing is that
02:37all of these groups of people simultaneously lost moral responsibility and that's not plausible
02:43something else happened to our food in the mid 1970s to make it irresistible to people
02:54good afternoon how are you my name is howard moskowitz i'm an experimental psychologist
03:10and in the 1970s people think that i revolutionized the food industry
03:20i'd like to talk to you about the way the science came about you know you read all the time
03:27in the
03:27newspapers it's a sinister plot generally by one or two scientists in a laboratory like ming the
03:35magnificent saying how should we make the people of the world fat well let me tell you my own history
03:43history i was called by the vice chairman of campbell soup and they said to me we're competing
03:50against the company which manufactures ragu they used to make it out of contadina tomato paste
03:58and water like my mother did in the 50s i said i think you can make a better pasta sauce
04:05and they said how and i said let's figure out the actual food ingredients that you can blend
04:14and let's make different combinations and we'll test them and we ended up creating 45 dishes and we got
04:25people to taste them and rate how much they like them i realized very simply that if you systematically
04:34varied the ingredients and you tested them nature would reveal itself in stunning clarity
04:42so this is the origin of the bliss point with which i am identified
04:49the easiest way to demonstrate a bliss point is add sugar to coffee
04:56as you add more and more sugar you like it more and more up to a certain point and then
05:01you like
05:01it less and less the highest level is where you like it most that's the bliss point
05:09where you have the bliss
05:14and that became the basis of a multi-billion dollar 30-year run
05:24i found that i could consult with companies like unilever pepsi cola tropicana dr pepper and spam
05:39sales almost always go up because you're making a delicious product and you know that people love it
05:46very simple
05:49but over the years products became more complicated and more artificial
06:04the road to hell is paved with good intentions
06:16from the 1970s food companies started to realize that if they used
06:20proper scientific development processes they could sell us a lot more food
06:34my name is john ruff and i've spent 40 years in the food industry across seven different countries
06:41companies spend a lot of time optimizing all aspects of their product the flavor the taste the
06:46texture people want their product to be as good if not better than the competitor and so it will sell
06:52more your research and development we used to use a phrase called the funnel
06:58and the funnel was the product development funnel you need a hundred products to be in what's called
07:04advanced development you need a thousand in early development you need ten thousand ideas
07:08often those ideas don't don't get off the drawing board don't get off the paper
07:12or they'll make some early prototypes and mock-ups okay seats numbers one to 14 you'll be now testing
07:18the fidget jet we use trained sensory panels to give us ratings is it squishy is it hard is it
07:25soft
07:25is it crunchy that's very much how the food industry operates the food company really almost has to
07:32sort of provide products that consumers want otherwise they will go out of business
07:39i've spoken to lots of people who work at food companies and they've told me about these tasting
07:43panels two of the most important things that are measured are how quickly do people eat and how
07:49much of the food do people eat because that's what drives sales but these tasting panels have a
07:55subjective element so some companies started taking it much further
08:16one of my remits when i first joined the company was the way that they would get information
08:21and that would be always word of mouth it would be focus groups it would be questionnaires and i just
08:27railed against that stuff i'm a neuroscientist i introduce brain scanning to unilever
08:39i'm not interested in talking to a consumer i want to find out what they like by digging deeper
08:45because we're not really aware of why we like what we like and one way to get that is with
08:50the
08:50neuroimaging capabilities what we would do is basically lie somewhere in the brain scanner and
08:57feed food into the mouth and we looked at the activity that was coming into that brain
09:05and one study that we did was feeding people in one of these brain scanners different types of ice
09:10cream and what we found is that this area right at the front of the brain here is called the
09:15orbitofrontal
09:16cortex and it's a reward system area and it was glowing like a furnace you're looking at what the
09:24brain is telling you you can't fudge it and it's grown and grown and grown as a way to predict
09:32what product is going to be successful and what isn't
09:41and the ice cream business used that brain imaging data to basically make the claim that ice cream makes
09:48you happy and this is the article that was in the newspapers
10:10the brain scans predicted which foods people would like or which ones they'd love but they also helped
10:18to show something about those foods that would be really crucial for the food industry if you want
10:23to sell a lot of food texture is massively important one thing many people don't realize is that factory
10:32processing changes the textural properties of that food now that makes the food much softer
10:39and an interesting fact about soft food is you're not chewing it as much
10:44that actually short circuits the normal satiety mechanisms that you would have if you were actually
10:49chewing food properly so a food which you have to actually put some work into chewing so a crunchy
10:55carrot is having that benefit in terms of the fact you're spending a lot more time chewing it with a
11:00soft food you don't do that so you're bypassing a normal mechanism that tells you you're full
11:07once you've worked out that playing around with the texture of a food making it softer tricks that
11:13normal satiety or fullness mechanism clearly there's there's an opportunity there for some kind of
11:18scurrilous behavior in making food softer so that people will eat more and therefore you sell more of
11:25your product so there is an opportunity there of course you know to basically not do the right thing
11:32should i say so much of the packaged food that we eat is incredibly soft
11:47my kids love these
11:51you don't typically think of this as being a soft food because it's a bit crunchy but actually after
11:57that initial crunch you can just crush it with your tongue right it's got no resistance at all
12:02but in terms of the calories per gram it's got way more calories than even a very fatty burger
12:07so the softness and the energy density mean that you consume it incredibly quickly and there's a food
12:13industry term for these very light puffy foods that melt in the mouth it's called vanishing caloric density
12:25gone
12:29the thing that makes us eat a lot isn't just what we do to the food
12:35it's also about logos marketing branding the box the food comes in
12:47here we've got a very crinkly packet of crisps
12:51the noise is quite quite loud extraordinary of course that's going to make you think fresh fresh fresh
12:59i'm professor barry smith i work on sensory science with neuroscientists and psychologists
13:07pringles are often irresistible it's in their slogan potato crisps in a tube pop it up and get in the
13:14mood
13:14once you pop you can't stop when i worked for pringles they were really worried about the
13:21competition from doritos and they were trying to think of ways to innovate and one idea was let's
13:27make the tube bigger so that we can get our whole hand in there and i said no no no
13:33don't do that
13:34people like struggling to get their hand in they're like foraging bears they're trying to extract the
13:40food and and that searching out something to eat that's increasing your desire
13:51eating is a multi-sensory experience
13:55there's the look of the food there's the smell of the food there's the feeling of the food on your
14:00fingers
14:02even the sound of food matters
14:08when you open a fizzy soda you've got two noises you've got the click and the tear sound engineers
14:17and manufacturers work really hard to get that sound just right and that sonic branding
14:29many companies have asked me to work on sonic branding for them and i think i can mention when
14:35i was working with kellogg they said ooh what's sonic branding and i said you invented this
14:43most people will remember as children the experience of lifting a bowl to their ear and what are they
14:50listening for snap crackle and pop that's sonic branding at its best and that's the original
14:58it's fun to put snap crackle pop into your morning
15:13look at all this the food companies are using branding to grab our attention it's salt fat sugar
15:20wrapped up in appealing packages we've got cartoon characters there are tigers there are monkeys there are
15:26bright colors everywhere but to sell even more food industry had to change the culture of how we eat
15:35the number of times a day we eat and this is called snackification
15:49i am dr janina chavez ugalde i am currently a research associate at the university of cambridge
15:56i trained as a food engineer in mexico and i worked for cargill
16:03it's a company that makes most of the raw ingredients that go into processed foods name
16:11it flour sugar oil high fructose corn syrup cocoa
16:19in the last several years i started to see an influx of packaged products from the usa into mexico
16:27i started to see my peers getting bigger i started to hear about diseases like type 2 diabetes cancer
16:36in younger people i started to ask questions about what is our impact as a food company in the health
16:43of our nation and that's why i changed careers
16:47there's a lot of competition out there and food companies make their money by the amount of
16:53products we consume from them so there's a stomach share that they're fighting for and there are hours
16:59in the day in between breakfast lunch and dinner what happens between those hours they want us to snack
17:07you wake up and this is what you have snack number one breakfast shake ultra processed
17:13this is heavily marketed for you to have on the go do not sit down do not take time to
17:18crunch through something snack number two of the day
17:24it's empty calories energy dense nutrient poor midday you're starting to get a little bit peckish and
17:31what do you have veggie straws this is a good example of a health claim snacking product whereas
17:38before we would have had food actual food now we are marketed into believing that this is actually a
17:46healthy replacement some snacking products have now been made to be linked with being physically active
17:53so after the gym i have a high protein low sugar bar instead of having a healthier option
18:02you finish having dinner and you have these snacks that are sold to you as more to share where in
18:09fact
18:09you can just finish them watching the tv by yourself i do like them i cannot stop eating them
18:19and i literally can't oh my god
18:27if you're a food company there are two main ways you can make more money you can sell more food
18:33so you
18:33grab more stomach share or you can use cheaper ingredients
18:49i'm susie glasky and i used to work for the food industry for nearly 20 years
18:55and now i really want to lift the lid on how food industry marketing is robbing us of our health
19:10the first time i really started to feel differently about the food industry was when sunny delight came
19:16out sunny delight it was sold as great for all the family hey mo are you right oh thanks mom
19:23so when
19:24can we move in there on your bike and when i looked at the ingredients i realized this was a
19:31really cheap
19:33product which had been dressed up to be something healthy and i think that's where i drew the line
19:40so the main thing that i worked on were modified starches and these were really really clever they can
19:48make snack foods crunchy and crispy and they can make yogurts creamy and smoothies glossy
19:59when we eat starch in a whole food it's digested slowly
20:06but if that same starch is highly processed then it's broken down very quickly by the body and it
20:14spikes our blood sugar and that then leads to a whole host of health problems and also to our body
20:22storing fat
20:24one of the starches that i worked on you could add it to a jam for example and it would
20:32give the
20:33sensory experience of having a strawberry without it actually being a strawberry fruit is expensive it's
20:43difficult to handle it spoils quickly it's expensive to transport so it's kind of padding out products
20:53with stuff that's just cheap but which mimics the real stuff
21:15we develop food and beverage products for companies of all sizes so we've worked with heinz cadbury's
21:20pringles green and black chocolate
21:24cost is such a big focus when we're developing products
21:27products from the ingredients the manufacturing the shipping and then from distributors to retailers
21:32everybody wants to make a profit they want to make a margin
21:36here are the ingredients that you need to make a homemade lemon cake we've got lemons unsurprisingly
21:42flour sugar butter eggs some bicarbonate soda and some salt but if you're going to make
21:50in a factory we've got quite a few things that we need to consider and so i have here a
21:56slightly
21:56longer list of ingredients double that you might see in a cake for a supermarket one of the main
22:02considerations has to be the shelf life of course yeah because your lovely homemade recipe you're talking
22:07days exactly before it starts to go moldy and just frankly stale yeah whereas something in the supermarket
22:13is going to need months of shelf life exactly you'll see here we've got potassium sorbate as one of the
22:19preservatives and that is to inhibit the growth of mold and yeasts so that your cake doesn't go off
22:25it's quite bitter a bit like biting on a paracetamol or something and so some of the ways that you
22:30might
22:30mask some of these bitter tastes might be with the flavoring for one the salt and then something else that
22:36you can't ignore with an ingredient list like this is how much cheaper it will be
22:52across the board we're substituting rich ingredients like eggs and butter with cheaper
22:57ones but also some of the ingredients from the stabilizers and starches it's all allowing you to
23:03use cheaper ingredients
23:19if you sit in my clinic if you work in this hospital you see the toll that diet related disease
23:25and takes on our patients
23:30there's incredibly strong evidence that the cause of the pandemic of obesity and diet related disease
23:36that's sweeping the globe is industrially processed packaged foods
23:55previously describing these goods was really hard scientifically we called it junk food
24:01or fast food and then a little while ago a friend gave me this this paper it's published in an
24:08obscure
24:08brazilian public health journal it says a new classification of foods based on the extent
24:13and purpose of their processing not an appealing read so i ignored it left it on the desk for weeks
24:21but i eventually got around to reading it
24:28and i thought if it's true this might be the most important scientific paper published so far this century
24:56is
24:57my name is carlos monteiro my research is about nutrition related health problems
25:08our first motivation was to study causes of the increasing obesity rates in brazil
25:18we started by studying changes in diets and then we realized that the main change in the food bought
25:28in brazil was a huge decline in cooking oils sugar and salt so this was a sort of surprise because
25:39usually these
25:42foods are considered unhealthy and cause weight gain
25:49according to nutrition science cooking oils would be terrible right because cooking oil is 100 fat
25:57but nobody consumes cooking oil by itself uh people use cooking oils at home to cook
26:10and we realized that these were being replaced by instant noodles frozen meals cookies desserts
26:20people were eating more industrial foods than home prepared food that was the main change
26:33we confirmed that the more people eat industry prepared food instead of home prepared food
26:41the higher the risk of obesity
26:48then we decided that a new food classification would be necessary we named it ultra processed food
27:08carlos montero was proposing something really radical previously we focused on sugar saturated fat and salt
27:16as being the problem and he said well maybe it's the industrial processing that is making us all eat
27:25a lot of these and having maybe other effects as well we've been doing food processing for
27:32thousands probably hundreds of thousands of years without significant health problems where we take
27:38whole food and we smoke it we salt it we preserve it we ferment it it's essential for human life
27:47ultra processed food is entirely different
27:53and the full definition is very long but if you're wondering if something you're eating is ultra processed
27:58look at the ingredients list and if you see things that you wouldn't expect to find in a home kitchen
28:04then it's probably an ultra processed food when i first read this paper it seemed really important
28:13but i had some doubts and i wasn't the only one lots of people were very skeptical about it
28:28my name is dr kevin hall i'm a senior investigator here at the national institute of health
28:33i first heard about this idea of ultra processed foods which basically says that nutrients aren't
28:39important at all it's really about the extent and purpose of processing and it seemed a little crazy to
28:44me because we have a whole history of nutrition science focusing on nutrients and then along comes
28:50carlos and says you know you've been focusing on the wrong thing for the past several decades
28:55so we enlisted the help of our dietitians here at the nih clinical center and i gave them what i
29:01thought was maybe an impossible task can you design two diets in one case all of the foods come from
29:08minimally processed foods and alternatively an ultra processed diet that is matched for the salt the
29:17sugar the fat the fiber
29:23and the idea of the study was to bring 20 men and women into the clinical center where they would
29:29live
29:29with us for a month so you have an hour to finish it or less we take complete control over
29:35their food
29:35environment and present them with meals and very simple instructions just eat as much or as little
29:40as you'd like and what they didn't know was at the end of each of the meals we were measuring
29:45their
29:45leftovers he ate most of the tater tots the dietitians downstairs will actually weigh it back and we'll
29:52know the exact quantity that's left over we were measuring their weights every day we were measuring
29:59how many calories their bodies were burning their oxygen consumption their carbon dioxide production
30:04my hypothesis going in was that we would see very very little difference in the number of calories
30:09people ate and of course i was wrong um it turned out that the people when they were on the
30:14ultra
30:15processed diet they spontaneously over ate calories about 500 calories per day greater than when they
30:21were on the minimally processed diet what we discovered was that the ultra processed foods despite being
30:32matched for their nutrient composition they tended to have many more calories per bite another thing
30:38that we found was that we ended up preparing and presenting people with foods that were high in
30:43sugar and fat that's something that's very rare to see in a food in nature these are so-called hyper
30:49palatable foods and we ended up presenting people with more of those hyper palatable foods on the ultra
30:56processed diet at the time it was published kevin hall's experiment was so important because it was
31:08really good quality evidence that ultra processed food does make you eat too much of it now it's just
31:16one scientific paper in in a huge and rapidly growing body of evidence i think one of the biggest
31:21problems with this kind of food is that so many of us struggle to stop eating hi everyone i'm so
31:40thrilled to be here today to speak with you on my research that looks at parallels between addictive
31:46substances and ultra processed food i'm dr ashley gerhart i'm a professor of psychology at the
31:54university of michigan and the director of the food and addiction science and treatment lab both fat
32:00and sugar are converging on the same neural reward center so it really seems to be hyper palatable food
32:06products that kind of mimic the reward profile that we see with addictive drugs and we look at the sorts
32:12of
32:12foods that trigger those key diagnostic indicators of addiction it's really clear what it's not it's
32:19not minimally processed foods like fruits or vegetables or beans or lean meats like chicken breast
32:27it's really processed foods that deliver high doses of refined carbohydrates like sugars and starches
32:35typically alongside high levels of fat it's chocolate it's ice cream it's pizza it's foods that don't exist in
32:44nature one of the first things that we did was try and understand how do we identify someone who might
32:53actually be experiencing an addiction so we created the yale food addiction scale which is the major tool used to
33:01measure an addiction to ultra processed food we really looked at the diagnostic criteria that we use to
33:09diagnose somebody with an alcohol addiction a tobacco addiction asking people about their experiences of
33:16losing control over their intake really intense cravings continuing to use even though you're having
33:22really negative consequences when i started to eat certain foods i ate much more than planned yes
33:32every day i'm sarita i'm 48 years old and i'm a food addict
33:45processed food has this control over me i don't want to binge on a bowl of broccoli
33:51it's the crap food there's something in it and i've struggled with drug and alcohol addiction
33:58and the parallels are too similar for there not to be a link
34:05most people in my position binge in the evenings i will start with cereal and it's always really sweet
34:12cereal so this is a good one i would pour as much of that into a mixing bowl not in
34:19not a normal bowl a
34:20mixing bowl and start with that um you're talking you are talking a box of cereal and three or four
34:28huge bars of chocolates and a couple of packets of biscuits way more food than you'd think a person
34:34could eat then after that it's just about how quickly can i purge it by purging i mean making myself
34:43sick
34:47i'm an intelligent person i'm a fitness fanatic i know that my binging behavior
34:54uh is really bad for me um and could end in heart attacks and diabetes and all sorts of stuff
35:03and that's why i know it's an addiction because i don't seem to care i don't care
35:11so i wanted to give you a little bit of a sense of the people who've come into our lab
35:15this individual had severe food addiction and they said i can't even be in the same room as any type
35:21of donuts because i will finish a dozen all by myself and i'm the potency and the reward power
35:28of these ultra processed foods can trigger an addictive response that leads them to consume
35:35these in such a compulsive way that even if they want to cut down even if they know it's killing
35:40them
35:40they find they can't stop we have to eat to live so giving up drugs you could just you quit
35:49completely
35:49and that's it but how do you stop eating processed food it's everywhere you go
36:05food addiction is a growing field of study there are lots of people who have well-founded concerns
36:12about demonizing an entire category of food and i understand that but personally i find it really hard
36:20to disagree with the testimony of many of my patients who feel that they are addicted to these products
36:31you have to make products taste palatable but what's happened is that palatability has been
36:36turned into well it's too good it's it's addictive it's too tasty i mean is there a point at which
36:42you
36:42can make a food taste good enough that people will eat it but not too good that it's going to
36:47be called
36:48hyper palatable yeah but you know what if somebody makes the hyper palatable one they'll stop eating
36:55the other one anyway we have to make products that taste good people want that we're not going to
37:00mandate that everybody's got to make their food taste bad i don't think it's not a world i want to
37:05be in
37:13we have a growing body of evidence that for some people this food is addictive
37:21and that makes me think about the tobacco industry
37:31laura schmidt i'm a professor at uc san francisco in the school of medicine
37:40i'd been working on ultra processed foods for a while and one of my colleagues said hey you know i've
37:47been
37:47poking around in the tobacco archive and i know you're interested in food you might want to check
37:53these out
37:57and it turns out that there were hundreds of thousands of documents in the tobacco archive
38:03about food companies
38:09from the 1960s rj reynolds the tobacco company starts buying up food subsidiaries
38:18why would a giant tobacco company buy up a food company and the answer was something we did not
38:26expect the people in the tobacco companies had a bunch of artificial colors and flavors
38:34developed in their labs that they were making to add to cigarettes flavors and colors like menthol
38:41their labs are developing them to put into cigarettes and create different products to target new
38:50consumers they call them line extensions
38:52you've come a long way baby to get where you got to today virginia slims for women who want to
39:00get thin
39:01marlboro for men who are couch potatoes but actually want to be cowboys listen while i tell you a story
39:11the tale of the marlboro brand
39:16they were targeting children
39:23joe camel was a cartoon mascot
39:26that rj reynolds put on camel cigarettes because they really wanted to make kids know the brand so
39:33that when they became cigarette consumers they would smoke camels one survey found six-year-olds
39:39in the u.s as familiar with joe the camel as with mickey mouse the tobacco industry had cultivated this
39:47strategy of taking a single utterly boring product and making it come alive with colors
39:55flavors flavors branding marketing cartoon mascots to target different consumer markets and we found this
40:04memo and this memo was written in 1962 by the guy who ran the labs to the ceo of rj
40:13reynolds and he
40:15literally says here it's easy to characterize rj reynolds merely as a tobacco company
40:23in a broader and much less restricting sense however rj reynolds is in the flavor business
40:33and here he's talking about a merger with a company called pacific hawaiian products company
40:44and they only make one thing and that's hawaiian punch
40:51hawaiian punch was one flavor and one color it was bright red and it was being marketed
40:58to adults and within a couple of years they had transformed this product into a children's beverage
41:06hey how about a nice hawaiian punch sure
41:11what gives hawaiian punch it's punch it's punch
41:15they intuitively understood that getting the kid hooked was the goal because that kid is going to
41:22be a lifelong consumer what's so brilliant about the marketing strategy is you can take that tobacco
41:29model and apply it to the food industry
41:36you can make massive numbers of line extensions wasn't that a refreshing commercial
41:41very sophisticated advertising campaigns that allow you to kind of get inside the minds of consumers
41:48and make them want what you have to sell
41:54we know that people in food companies were putting people in a brain scan
42:01to observe what goes on in the brain when people are exposed to the food products that they were developing
42:07whether or not they intended to make all of these foods addictive i don't know what we can say
42:16is that if if you're eating a brand that was ever owned by a tobacco company there's a stronger
42:24likelihood that it has been developed to make you want more
42:42the biggest cigarette companies in the world were also the biggest food companies they were the same
42:49companies and of course over decades the tobacco industry perfected the techniques for denying any of
42:57their products were addictive
43:10hi i'm steve parish today we're going to set the record straight cigarettes neither alter a person's
43:17mood nor do they impair an individual's ability to function those people who term smoking and addiction
43:23do so for political and ideological not scientific reasons
43:32i retired in 2008 from altria group inc formerly known as philip morris the tobacco company where i was
43:40the senior vice president of corporate affairs in the early 1990s there was a really a sea change in
43:48attitudes about the tobacco industry in the united states and it seemed like it was the year of the perfect
43:55storm in 1994 when there were congressional hearings please consider yourself to be under oath
44:02members of congress asked the ceos of the various tobacco companies do you believe cigarette smoking is
44:08addictive do you believe nicotine is not addictive i believe nicotine is not addictive yes cigarettes and
44:14nicotine clearly do not meet the classic definitions of addiction i don't believe that nicotine or our products
44:21are addictive i believe nicotine is not addictive i believe that nicotine is not addictive
44:27i believe that nicotine is not addictive and i too believe that nicotine is not addictive
44:33At the end of a two-day hearing, the expert committee decided that, yes, cigarette smoking is addictive.
44:40And then a few years later, our company, Philip Morris, decided to change its position and acknowledge the fact that
44:50cigarette smoking is addictive.
44:53When our company made that announcement, it caused quite a stir, and even a bigger stir when we announced that
45:01we were in favor of the Food and Drug Administration regulating the tobacco industry.
45:07When Philip Morris companies saw that there was a continual decline year over year over year in cigarette smoking, it
45:17just made sense for the company to look beyond tobacco.
45:21And there were similarities in the products, not in terms of the product themselves, but where they were bought and
45:28sold.
45:29Grocery stores, convenience stores, and places like that.
45:35But there have been claims ultra-processed food can be addictive. Do you believe that's the case?
45:41Yeah, you know, I don't know the answer to that question.
45:43I don't know whether specific food products would meet that definition of addiction.
45:51I would leave that to people who have studied the products and studied the science there.
45:56I don't know whether any companies would admit addiction, a particular food product,
46:03but I would hope that the companies would listen to the science and say and do the right thing.
46:17I think right now we are, with ultra-processed food, a bit like where we were in the 60s with
46:23cigarettes.
46:24And in my opinion, the food industry is using many of the same techniques that the tobacco industry used to
46:31protect their interests.
46:32And lots of scientists have experienced this firsthand.
46:45I'm Dana Small, I'm a neuroscientist.
46:48I'm interested in how the brain and the body work together to optimize behavior.
46:58Pepsi came to us and they were interested to know whether they could reduce the amount of sugar in beverages
47:04to make healthier drinks.
47:08Now, to keep the calories down, you might add some artificial sweeteners to increase the sweetness but without getting the
47:14calories.
47:15So, we designed this study where we had five different beverages and they had different amounts of calories.
47:21But we wanted them to be similarly sweet.
47:24So, we used sweetener, which doesn't have any calories.
47:29Yeah, this is not very elegant, but in she goes.
47:34She'll actually be in there receiving little tastes of the different flavors,
47:40then swallowing and then waiting for the next flavor to come.
47:45When you look at brain responses to these different flavors,
47:48you can see the dopamine and reward systems and what we found was completely unanticipated.
47:58We actually didn't see a negative impact of just drinking like a diet drink.
48:03But when we had a diet drink and we added calories, that's when we saw changes.
48:13So, for example, it's okay to have your diet soda by itself.
48:18But if you have the diet soda with french fries, you're going to have artificial sweeteners and carbohydrates,
48:25and that's when you're going to get into trouble.
48:29There's a lot we don't understand about sweeteners.
48:31But in very simple terms, if you put sweet taste on the tongue, it signals to your body that sugar
48:39is on the way.
48:39And if sugar doesn't then arrive, that seems to have several unexpected effects on the body,
48:46and it may even lead to weight gain.
48:51If the effect we've observed generalizes, then it follows that consuming diet food can actually lead to weight gain rather
49:01than weight loss.
49:02Now, that needs to be tested experimentally, but the logic is straightforward to that prediction.
49:10We were discovering something pretty important, and rather than being able to continue with us, PepsiCo dropped us.
49:24We're experimenting, we're trying to figure things out.
49:27But during this process, you could discover something that is harmful.
49:34So that leaves them vulnerable to lawsuits, which is exactly what happened in the tobacco industry.
49:54The industry wants less regulation on their products, so the lobbying is very, very aggressive in all of our countries.
50:08I was a food engineer, but I couldn't agree with the type of things that I was learning.
50:14I couldn't agree with the ingredients that we would put in the food.
50:18And now I want to expose that to people and explain what the industry is doing and why it's doing
50:25it.
50:27What our research have shown is that the industry is fighting against the concept that ultraprocessing is harming our health.
50:37They are trying to also develop their own scientific studies and create a parallel world of publications.
50:45National surveys fail to show any link between body mass index and consumption of ultraprocessed foods.
50:54It's becoming difficult to know what is true because those publications are basically funded by the industry.
51:02Melissa Mialon found that out of 38 papers questioning the science around ultraprocessed foods, 33 of them had authors with
51:11connections to the food industry.
51:13So the food industry exerts its influence in a lot of subtle ways, and I've had personal experience of some
51:19of these.
51:21The companies have been very, very keen to get in touch with me, to invite me to give talks and
51:28presentations, to fly across the Atlantic.
51:32Most of the time I say no. In one instance, I thought, well, let me, let me get the contract
51:37and see, see how all this looks.
51:40Is this a really well-known food company then?
51:43So this is one of the big, yeah, this is a big food company.
51:47So I got a contract and they offered me about £20,000 for a two hour meeting.
51:52And I cannot understand why they want to pay me.
51:56So I got a lawyer to help me understand this.
51:59So here's the relevant bit.
52:01It says that I will not make any statement as shall disparage the food company or its products or bring
52:09the company name into disrepute.
52:11So for about £20,000, they buy my silence on ultraprocessed food.
52:17Their most effective strategy is to fund people who sound credible, who create confusion and doubt.
52:23That is what the tobacco industry did so beautifully.
52:36The situation seems overwhelming, but there is hope.
52:40First of all, we did control tobacco.
52:43Not perfectly, but we did it.
52:46The second thing is if you look at countries across South and Central America, they are bringing in policies that
52:51are making a difference.
53:02My name is Juan Castro.
53:04I'm trained as a doctor.
53:06I became a senator in Colombia because I wanted to change the healthcare system.
53:18My name is Juan Castro.
53:18In the last decades, the food companies saw a market that they hadn't explored.
53:23So they started to set up stores, selling their products, telling people that they were very nutritious.
53:30Chronic illnesses make up about 70 to 80% of our healthcare resources.
53:36People have doubled their weight in the last decade.
53:40Diabetes, obesity in general.
53:43These things are all related to ultraprocessed food.
53:48One of my goals was to pass that bill.
53:50First of all, proposing warning labels.
53:58And then to tax ultraprocessed foods to get more money for the healthcare system.
54:02So I thought we need to make this happen.
54:09I just presented the facts to the constituents and I did it to social media.
54:15They presented a bill.
54:17There was some resistance and state representatives that didn't want to support the bill.
54:22But by making people aware of all these issues, it became a much easier fight.
54:29And senators have children too.
54:32How are we going to stand up in Congress in front of everyone to advocate for something that's bad for
54:38their health?
54:39It took three years and we had to make some compromises.
54:44But at the end of the day, they supported me and they bought it in favor of my bill.
54:53It was really gratifying.
54:56I feel really proud that I was able to contribute to that fight, for that fight, for the people.
55:03So people can eat better.
55:14If I look at some of these Colombian warning labels, you know, it feels quite shocking to have a warning
55:19label on these very sort of everyday products.
55:23You know, you might pause if there was a big black octagon on your kid's breakfast cereal.
55:29Well, the food industry would say, oh, the definition of ultraprocessed food includes lots of healthy foods like whole grain
55:36ultraprocessed bread,
55:38fish fingers, baked beans.
55:41Now, this makes me incredibly angry.
55:43This is food that I do feed my children.
55:46The fish fingers, very high in salt and fat.
55:48The baked beans, very high in salt and sugar.
55:51The supermarket ultraprocessed bread, even if it's got whole grains, very high in sugar and salt.
55:57So is this the worst food you can buy? Absolutely not.
56:00But is it the foundation of a healthy diet? It certainly isn't, no.
56:05And in lots of countries, all of those products would get warning labels for salt, fat, sugar.
56:17For years, the phrase was everything in moderation.
56:20You know, it's as true today as it was when whoever first coined it.
56:26We're faced with so many challenges in the world today, and certainly in providing a food supply.
56:34Some of the discussion that, you know, I hear, whether it be on chemicals or ultraprocessed foods, seem to be
56:42designed to stop us from doing that.
56:44And I don't think that's a very smart place to be.
56:52Researches say ultraprocessed foods now make up 73% of the US food supply.
56:59Global obesity rates have doubled.
57:03Ultraprocessed foods can cause harm similar to smoking.
57:07The University of Oxford highlights the enormous financial power of unhealthy ultraprocessed foods.
57:19Imagine you're trying to cut down on ultraprocessed foods, or avoid it altogether.
57:26For a start, it might be the only food you can afford, and that is true for millions of people.
57:32But it's everywhere.
57:34And it's engineered and then marketed by some of the smartest people on Earth to be irresistible.
57:44So if someone is watching this and they are struggling with their weight, with diet-related disease, I just want
57:49to reach out and grab them and go, this is not your fault.
57:51It is not you. It is the food.
57:56The Food and Drink Federation declined our request for an interview but provided this statement.
58:01Food and drink manufacturers take the issue of obesity and poor diets very seriously, and we know we have a
58:06key role to play in helping people to eat balanced diets.
58:08Our members continue to invest hundreds of millions in pounds in creating healthier products for shoppers.
58:14As a result, UK shopping baskets now contain significantly less salt, sugar and calories than they did a decade ago.
58:20Companies are also working to raise the fibre, fruit and vegetable content of their products.
58:24It's of course up to government if they want to introduce new taxes or warning labels.
58:28However, taxes will push up the cost of food and could disincentivise ongoing investment in healthier products.
58:34We think there are more effective ways to encourage positive dietary change.
58:37On labelling, we believe the UK's traffic light system is a more positive way of nudging consumers towards healthier choices
58:43than warning labels,
58:45where global evidence suggests the longer-term impact is limited.
58:48However, we would support a labelling review, including to test whether consistent positive labelling on all healthier products would help
58:54consumers.
58:56The government's Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition had said there's insufficient scientific evidence on the concept of ultra-processed foods
59:03for it to be used for dietary guidance or policy making, and that further research is needed.
59:08If research comes to light that processing is a cause for concern, the food industry will act quickly to change
59:13their ingredients or processes.
59:21For details of organisations which offer advice and support with eating disorders, go online to the BBC Action Line website.
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