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Max Clifford documentary The Fall Of A Tabloid King
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00:00:02If you want to do a set-up shop, you can always have the two of us walking, talking there.
00:00:08Yeah, it'd be great. I think they'd love that.
00:00:13When he was at his peak, he was one of the most powerful men in Fleet Street.
00:00:20Publicist Max Clifford.
00:00:21Who publicist Max Clifford.
00:00:23Consultant Max Clifford said.
00:00:24Max Clifford said that stars from both the...
00:00:26Max Clifford, the man behind the headlines, is here to face his critics.
00:00:31He once told me that he loved to have newspapers and editors dancing to his tune.
00:00:37Publicist, promoter, keeper of the flame of truth, Max Clifford.
00:00:43But I don't think anybody knew who the real Max Clifford was.
00:00:48Max Clifford has been charged with 11 counts of indecent assault between 1966 and 1985.
00:00:54These allegations are damaging and totally untrue.
00:01:03I was totally shocked when I heard what he'd been arrested for.
00:01:09And I just felt sick, really.
00:01:15For years, I really wanted everybody to know what kind of a person he was, but I couldn't tell the
00:01:21truth.
00:01:22He was prepared to do anything to stop his secret life being exposed.
00:01:28Max had no conception of right or wrong, no conception of truth or fantasy.
00:01:36Max was extraordinarily open with me, the way he talked.
00:01:42It was opening a very dark door in his soul.
00:02:04My name is Angela Levin, and Max Clifford asked me to write his biography.
00:02:10He wanted to have a biography written about him, because that's what great men have, and he wanted it on
00:02:18his shelf in his office.
00:02:20And that would underline the fact that he'd arrived.
00:02:24He was important.
00:02:27While I was doing Max's biography, I talked to him for about, well over 100 hours, and I recorded it
00:02:35all on tapes.
00:02:38It was 16 years ago, and I've never played them to anyone until now.
00:02:45I think the tapes showed an all-round idea of how Max thought, worked, lived.
00:02:54I said to him, Max, where do you want to start?
00:02:57He said, well, I want you to know that I wasn't faithful to my wife for more than two or
00:03:04three weeks at a time.
00:03:08He said, well, I'm just one of those people.
00:03:12Obviously, for a lot of time, I was having affairs.
00:03:15I was, you know, greedy, and it's wonderful.
00:03:20Liz, my wife, and the rest of them were for entertainment.
00:03:23Yeah.
00:03:24I always like to do naughty things.
00:03:26Like what?
00:03:27Um, well, seduce other people's wives and, you know, girlfriends.
00:03:34Only sex.
00:03:35Yeah.
00:03:36Yeah, I had my cake and everybody else's cake as well.
00:03:39Yeah.
00:03:41He said sex meant nothing to him.
00:03:44It was for sport.
00:03:45He liked different shapes of women.
00:03:48He liked two women at a time.
00:03:51He had mother and daughter relationships.
00:03:53He'd like to watch.
00:03:55He'd like to set up things for other people to watch.
00:03:58I was completely gobsmacked.
00:04:01I had no idea that this was what he wanted to say to me.
00:04:07I thought it was a very strange thing to want as a priority in your book.
00:04:13It was obviously something that he'd been longing to get out somehow.
00:04:19This is the first time I have talked about it, and it's in part comfortable and in part very uncomfortable.
00:04:36I'm just making sure my focus on it, and I knew Max Clifford because that's what people like us did.
00:04:49In the 80s and 90s, a kiss-and-tell story was the bread and butter of tabloid newspapers.
00:04:57And that suited Max.
00:05:00An exclusive was everything.
00:05:03You get a big exclusive, you could sell an extra 100,000 papers a day, which is how Max Clifford
00:05:10became very powerful.
00:05:13He provided us with those stories, like Rebecca Luce and David Beckham.
00:05:19He was the king of kiss-and-tell.
00:05:22He started a whole different way of doing tabloid journalism.
00:05:27Yes, we are selling our story.
00:05:29Of course, it's a story.
00:05:30The whole world are interested in it, and we've been offered a lot of money for it.
00:05:35People didn't know how to get hold of a newspaper and someone who would listen,
00:05:40but they could go to Max, and they would have a chance to have a say.
00:05:48If you've got a major story, who do you go to?
00:05:52There's only one person, really, in this country.
00:05:55That's me.
00:05:56Yeah.
00:05:57A hastily organised photo call at a London radio station.
00:06:01Publicist Max Clifford showing off his latest client.
00:06:05The Harlow MP, Mr Hayes, who is married with two children,
00:06:08is reported to have had a relationship with Paul Stone, who was 18 when they met.
00:06:12Mr Hayes is denying the allegations.
00:06:15The thing that struck me about Max when I first met him was that he was extremely charismatic.
00:06:20I certainly felt, if things did start to get out of control, that he was sort of this
00:06:24invincible guy who would just steam in there and deal with it.
00:06:28Was the timing of this done to damage the Conservative Party in the general election?
00:06:32No, I chose the timing of this.
00:06:35He said, I will make sure I will get as much money as I can from the newspapers for you,
00:06:40and he did.
00:06:43Max Clifford was a very smart guy.
00:06:46How are you doing?
00:06:47I'm Louis Theroux.
00:06:47Yes, I know.
00:06:48I've seen you on television.
00:06:50Very famous man.
00:06:51He saw that celebrity was the new currency.
00:06:54If you want an autograph, you just carry on.
00:06:56Hello.
00:06:57Don't be shy.
00:06:58What's your name?
00:06:58Simon Cowell hired Max Clifford, and he was his biggest client for a very long time.
00:07:04I think of all the decisions I've made over the past couple of years,
00:07:07it was definitely the best decision I ever made.
00:07:11He became, frankly, as big a star as many of the people he represented.
00:07:18He could deliver things that were going to either bring viewers to your programme,
00:07:23or get people to buy your newspaper.
00:07:26He could deliver those commodities, and he did.
00:07:29And so we paid.
00:07:31TV paid.
00:07:33Everybody paid.
00:07:35I've always thought, somebody out there likes me.
00:07:38Because the way it all falls into place.
00:07:41Time after time after time.
00:07:44That's the story of my life.
00:07:51When I first saw him on the television, it was really, really shocking.
00:07:58And I really wanted everybody to know what kind of a person he was.
00:08:03But my own story was so bizarre and complex,
00:08:06I just felt that people wouldn't believe me,
00:08:11so I couldn't tell the truth.
00:08:17Max told me that he had loads and loads of sex parties
00:08:22where people would just do what they wanted.
00:08:27He was obviously a voyeur.
00:08:29He had no compunction about saying that.
00:08:32He liked to watch.
00:08:35It was my party.
00:08:37It was my circus.
00:08:38So I was a ringmaster.
00:08:41You know, we were all of us in this toy shop.
00:08:44And we could play with every toy.
00:08:46And there'd be four or five stars,
00:08:49and five or six girls at it,
00:08:51and doing all kinds of things in this room, in that room.
00:08:54And I controlled it.
00:08:57I met a lot of girls that were very attractive and very random,
00:09:02and were enjoying themselves.
00:09:04I never used to have to ask them if they wanted to come out.
00:09:06They were on the phone saying,
00:09:07well, I'll be around next week if you're going out.
00:09:10It was actually all good, honest filth.
00:09:14Describing it as good, honest filth
00:09:19makes your blood run cold, I think.
00:09:22But I thought, if this is what he wants in his book,
00:09:25then that's up to him.
00:09:27So I put in about the parties,
00:09:30and I put in about his infidelity.
00:09:33Was there an outcry about these stories
00:09:35when your book was published in 2005?
00:09:38There was no real outcry.
00:09:40I think that it was just Max,
00:09:43and people accepted Max for being Max.
00:09:46And it's astonishing when you look back that there wasn't.
00:09:58His sex parties became legendary.
00:10:02I think there were networking parties,
00:10:03and that was the excuse for them.
00:10:05He invited people along, showbiz people, clients, journalists,
00:10:10A, so they could have a good time,
00:10:12and B, so that he could use it for his own benefit.
00:10:17I remember the very first time I met him,
00:10:20he basically started boasting about his sexual exploits.
00:10:26This was very...
00:10:28You know, I'm sort of sat there going...
00:10:30And essentially, he would go out with a group of cronies.
00:10:35Eventually, someone would, quote, pull a girl.
00:10:41And that person would take that girl back to Max's office for sex.
00:10:51Max and the rest of the crew would go to what appeared to be just a big cupboard
00:10:59and watch their friend have sex with this young girl
00:11:03who had no idea that she was being watched.
00:11:11Legend has it that Max would have people, you know,
00:11:14either himself or somebody else,
00:11:16with cameras hidden in certain places.
00:11:20He boasted to me on a number of occasions
00:11:22that he had compromising photographs
00:11:25of various senior journalists, even editors, compromised.
00:11:33I remember once I was in his little inner office
00:11:36with a colleague of mine, a female colleague of mine.
00:11:39He suddenly got up, came behind us,
00:11:42went into a cupboard,
00:11:44got out a large jiffy bag
00:11:45and spilled the content on the table in front of us.
00:11:49So we looked at these,
00:11:51and these were fuzzy polaroids
00:11:53of various couples in sexual congress.
00:11:58And it was clear that some of these pictures,
00:12:00I would think all of them,
00:12:02had been taken probably without the knowledge of the participants.
00:12:06And some had like an object across the picture,
00:12:10meaning they'd probably been taken from behind a cupboard
00:12:13or in a cupboard and so on.
00:12:16I recognised an individual on one of the pictures
00:12:22and we were stunned.
00:12:25Here is a guy admitting to two tabloid journalists
00:12:29that he himself is a sexual voyeur.
00:12:32So this is an immense hostage to fortune on the face of it.
00:12:37So when we discussed it later,
00:12:39the conclusion we reached was,
00:12:41it was a power play.
00:12:42This was Max saying to us,
00:12:44I am untouchable.
00:12:56As time went by,
00:12:57Max Clifford became increasingly cavalier
00:13:00about what he was doing.
00:13:02Without question,
00:13:03he made things up.
00:13:11Yeah, well, that's it.
00:13:13Yes, I mean,
00:13:14this was the son.
00:13:15Mellor made love in Chelsea's strip.
00:13:18You see,
00:13:19that is a work of fiction.
00:13:22The essential elements
00:13:24of the allegation
00:13:26about having a relationship
00:13:27with Antonio de Sancho were right.
00:13:29But all of the bits
00:13:31that people loved
00:13:32and juicy bits
00:13:33about the Chelsea shirt
00:13:34and all of that
00:13:35just totally fabricated.
00:13:39The truth hurts.
00:13:41Lies hurt even more.
00:13:43It was a total circus.
00:13:45Mr. Minister,
00:13:45are you about to resign?
00:13:47As I say,
00:13:47when I'm coming in,
00:13:48I'm very pleased to see you.
00:13:51When you're representing your clients
00:13:53and if you perhaps go
00:13:54to a national newspaper editor,
00:13:57do you always tell the truth?
00:13:59No.
00:14:00You don't?
00:14:01No.
00:14:07There are some people
00:14:07that might say
00:14:08that that really rather
00:14:09destroys the credibility
00:14:10of what you do.
00:14:11Well, not if they understand
00:14:12what I do.
00:14:13I think he lied
00:14:15automatically,
00:14:17really spontaneously.
00:14:18Something would come into his head
00:14:20and he'd suddenly say it
00:14:23and it would be a lie.
00:14:25And he would think
00:14:26that it didn't really matter.
00:14:28His classic, of course,
00:14:30was Freddie Star ate my hamster.
00:14:33Did you really eat that hamster?
00:14:35Be honest with you.
00:14:38You can ask Max Clifford.
00:14:44It was a huge story
00:14:45at the time
00:14:46and it instantly
00:14:47made Freddie Star
00:14:48the household name.
00:14:52You only have to think about it
00:14:53to eat a live hamster.
00:14:55There'll be blood everywhere.
00:14:57There's fur.
00:14:57You know,
00:14:58it can't be done.
00:14:59But he sold that story
00:15:01to the son.
00:15:03I think everybody
00:15:04in the media knows
00:15:05that public relations
00:15:06is about lying,
00:15:08being economical.
00:15:09The grocery said it isn't.
00:15:10Hold on,
00:15:10just a second.
00:15:11An important part
00:15:12of public relations.
00:15:13The whole thing
00:15:14is an absolute monstrous
00:15:16fabrication and a lie.
00:15:17And the fact that Max Clifford's name
00:15:18has been put to us
00:15:19by the police
00:15:20is absolutely no surprise
00:15:21whatsoever.
00:15:23Police have said
00:15:23there is no evidence
00:15:24whatsoever
00:15:25to support the claims.
00:15:26The Hamiltons
00:15:27had cast-iron alibis.
00:15:28It's about the worst thing
00:15:29you can accuse somebody of
00:15:31is rape,
00:15:31isn't it,
00:15:32frankly?
00:15:34How do people know
00:15:35whether you're telling
00:15:36the truth or not?
00:15:37You mean,
00:15:38how do you know?
00:15:38You don't.
00:15:40You don't.
00:15:41I mean,
00:15:42you know,
00:15:42that's the honest answer,
00:15:43is you don't know.
00:15:46The only person
00:15:47that knows is me.
00:15:56At the beginning
00:15:57of 1997,
00:15:59most of Fleet Street
00:16:00relied on Max Clifford
00:16:02for their bread-and-butter stories.
00:16:04And Fleet Street editors
00:16:05would do quite a lot
00:16:07at that time
00:16:07to protect him
00:16:08because he was
00:16:09such a valuable source.
00:16:11The classic manoeuvre
00:16:13by Max Clifford
00:16:13was that
00:16:14if a newspaper
00:16:15was about to publish
00:16:16a damaging story
00:16:17about one of his clients,
00:16:19he would pretend
00:16:20the editor of that newspaper
00:16:21and say
00:16:22that you will
00:16:23never get a story
00:16:25out of me again.
00:16:26I'm working to come after you
00:16:27if you publish this story
00:16:29about my client.
00:16:31So those were the circumstances
00:16:33under which
00:16:34I was asked
00:16:35by my seniors
00:16:37at the Mail on Sunday
00:16:38to investigate Max Clifford.
00:16:41There were rumours
00:16:42about Clifford's background,
00:16:44but nothing very concrete
00:16:45at all at that time.
00:16:48There was a story
00:16:49that an actors' union official
00:16:50had been sacked
00:16:51because he had given
00:16:53an equity card,
00:16:55which is like
00:16:56a licence to work
00:16:57in the film and TV
00:16:59and theatre industries
00:17:00to two young women
00:17:03in exchange for sexual favours.
00:17:05And somehow
00:17:05there was a Max Clifford
00:17:06association with that.
00:17:07So that became
00:17:09the start
00:17:11of my investigation.
00:17:13I was fortunate enough
00:17:15to be able to find
00:17:16the women
00:17:17that had been mentioned
00:17:18in that story
00:17:18and even more fortunate
00:17:20in that they were
00:17:21willing to talk to me.
00:17:22And from that,
00:17:23I was given a glimpse
00:17:26into Max Clifford's world,
00:17:28which suddenly opened up
00:17:29and I was shocked
00:17:31and amazed, I think.
00:17:33What we discovered
00:17:34in our investigation
00:17:35was that Clifford
00:17:37told these women
00:17:38to have sex
00:17:38where the very senior
00:17:40official at equity
00:17:41and in return
00:17:42she would get
00:17:43an equity card.
00:17:45I used to fix him up
00:17:46with these beautiful women.
00:17:47They got their equity cards
00:17:48and everybody was the winner.
00:17:51I did a lot of things
00:17:52which were beneficial for them.
00:17:54The women told me
00:17:55that Max Clifford
00:17:56was regularly organising
00:17:58events for his clients
00:17:59that were effectively
00:18:01sex parties
00:18:01and there was
00:18:03a sort of unwritten rule,
00:18:04fairly explicit, I think,
00:18:06that in exchange
00:18:07for various promises
00:18:09which he made to them,
00:18:10these young women
00:18:10were expected to provide
00:18:11the sexual services
00:18:13that he needed
00:18:14to satisfy his clients.
00:18:16I'm talking about
00:18:17young women
00:18:17who were in their late teens,
00:18:18really, 18, 19,
00:18:20that kind of age.
00:18:26In a sense,
00:18:27Clifford was acting
00:18:28like a pimp.
00:18:29A lot of these women
00:18:30were mesmerised
00:18:31by the sort of lifestyle
00:18:32of going to nightclubs
00:18:33and celebrity parties
00:18:34and all the rest of it
00:18:36and he, you know,
00:18:37he exploited
00:18:38their vulnerability.
00:18:40Clifford made
00:18:42outlandish promises
00:18:43that he hardly ever delivered.
00:18:45I'd have mates
00:18:46that were, say,
00:18:47for example,
00:18:48a plumber
00:18:48and I'd make out
00:18:49that he was a film producer.
00:18:52So there'd be one or two girls
00:18:53who made sure
00:18:54he had a wonderful night
00:18:55he'd never forget.
00:18:56Usually in order to get a party,
00:18:58a movie.
00:18:59And did they come with you
00:19:01because they thought
00:19:02that this would
00:19:03be their route to fame
00:19:05or they just fancied you?
00:19:08Anybody?
00:19:09Right.
00:19:09I think the reason why
00:19:1220, 30 years later
00:19:13no one's ever complained
00:19:14is because
00:19:15they were old enough
00:19:17to know what they were doing,
00:19:18thoroughly enjoyed
00:19:19what happened
00:19:19and the fact that
00:19:20no one knows about it
00:19:21is because
00:19:22everyone was enjoying themselves.
00:19:26Well, that's just
00:19:27a series of lies.
00:19:28It's just not true.
00:19:30In the affidavits
00:19:32that we obtained
00:19:33at the time,
00:19:34even such a short time
00:19:35afterwards,
00:19:36they have
00:19:38very clearly expressed
00:19:39their almost self-loathing,
00:19:42almost self-loathing
00:19:43about what they had done
00:19:44to please Clifford
00:19:46or one of his clients.
00:19:54I remember coming back
00:19:56from Surrey on the train
00:19:57and I couldn't stop crying.
00:19:59I couldn't put into words
00:20:00what I was feeling,
00:20:01but it wasn't right.
00:20:03I just wish I hadn't done it.
00:20:04I wish it had never happened.
00:20:06It was a bad, bad mistake.
00:20:08Max was the one
00:20:09who instigated,
00:20:10who organised it.
00:20:11I think he's like
00:20:11a wolf in sheep's clothing.
00:20:13You think that someone
00:20:14can get you something,
00:20:15but in reality,
00:20:16you will be paying for that
00:20:17your whole life.
00:20:20Some people are traumatised
00:20:21by that kind of experience
00:20:22and find it very, very difficult
00:20:24to deal with
00:20:24over a long period of time.
00:20:26One of those affidavits
00:20:27refers to a woman
00:20:28starting to drink
00:20:29and developing bulimia.
00:20:30These are serious issues
00:20:33for anybody.
00:20:46It was 1977
00:20:47when I met Max Clifford
00:20:49and I'd just turned 15.
00:20:53I was very shy,
00:20:55very unconfident.
00:20:57We went on holiday
00:20:58to Torremolinos in Spain.
00:21:00It was just my parents
00:21:01and myself.
00:21:06We met Max Clifford
00:21:07a couple of times.
00:21:09I remember him
00:21:10coming to speak
00:21:11to my parents.
00:21:16he introduced himself
00:21:18as working in the showbiz
00:21:20entertainment industry.
00:21:24And I can just remember
00:21:26standing there
00:21:27and listening to it,
00:21:28not really being that interested.
00:21:30But then I remember
00:21:31him saying to my parents
00:21:32that I was very pretty
00:21:33and that there would be
00:21:35opportunities
00:21:35because I was pretty.
00:21:38and they said
00:21:39she's just 15,
00:21:40she's still got another year
00:21:41at school.
00:21:42And he said,
00:21:42that doesn't mean
00:21:43it precludes
00:21:44maybe looking into this
00:21:46a bit further.
00:21:47Get your daughter
00:21:48to give me a ring
00:21:50when she gets back
00:21:51from holiday.
00:21:59and Max Clifford
00:22:00came round to our house.
00:22:03He arrived in a yellow Jaguar,
00:22:06which in those days
00:22:07was quite a prestigious car.
00:22:11He talked a lot
00:22:12about himself.
00:22:13He talked about
00:22:14his connections
00:22:16in the industry
00:22:17and had I ever thought
00:22:18of being an actress?
00:22:20And I said, no.
00:22:22He said, you know,
00:22:23you could be the UK's
00:22:24version of Jodie Foster.
00:22:26Wouldn't that be exciting?
00:22:28I felt really special.
00:22:30I felt like he'd spotted
00:22:31some kind of star quality
00:22:33in me
00:22:33that nobody else
00:22:34had ever seen.
00:22:36He said that
00:22:37he would take me out
00:22:38to meet producers
00:22:40and directors.
00:22:41And I think my parents
00:22:41were flattered
00:22:42by his attention
00:22:43and the fact that
00:22:44he was sort of
00:22:44so well-connected.
00:22:45And I'm sure
00:22:46that's when my parents
00:22:47felt secure
00:22:49with him taking me out.
00:22:51They trusted him
00:22:52implicitly.
00:22:57He took me
00:22:58to a local pub
00:23:00and he would sit
00:23:03and talk about
00:23:04how wonderful it would be
00:23:05and, you know,
00:23:06can you imagine?
00:23:06You're in a cinema
00:23:08and you're looking
00:23:08up at the screen
00:23:09and your face is
00:23:10all over the screen.
00:23:11Would you know
00:23:11that's a wonderful feeling,
00:23:13a fantastic thing
00:23:14and, you know,
00:23:15can you imagine
00:23:16how positive that would be
00:23:17for you and your family?
00:23:21He would say,
00:23:22you've got to trust me 100%.
00:23:23We have to get to the stage
00:23:25whereby you do whatever
00:23:26I tell you to do.
00:23:34In the car on the way home,
00:23:35he pulled up
00:23:36somewhere quiet,
00:23:39dimly lit.
00:23:40I had no idea
00:23:41what was happening.
00:23:42I had no idea.
00:23:44He said,
00:23:45take your trousers down.
00:23:49I didn't want to do it.
00:23:51And he said,
00:23:52you're being very childish.
00:23:53You know,
00:23:54if you want to have been
00:23:54into this adult world,
00:23:55you've got to grow up.
00:23:58And I was
00:24:00just in a complete state
00:24:01of shock and fright
00:24:02and just didn't know
00:24:04what to do.
00:24:05Just wanted to get out of there.
00:24:08He would digitally penetrate me
00:24:10and then he instructed me
00:24:12to masturbate him.
00:24:14I just wanted to get it
00:24:15over and done with
00:24:16because I knew
00:24:17I couldn't talk my way
00:24:18out of it.
00:24:19I was just completely
00:24:21confused by what was going on.
00:24:22I couldn't make head
00:24:23or tail of it.
00:24:26I sensed it was wrong.
00:24:28I hated it.
00:24:30But I was having
00:24:30to keep it all a secret
00:24:31because I felt
00:24:32what I had done
00:24:33was so bad.
00:24:34And in fact,
00:24:34when he was talking to me,
00:24:37he would say,
00:24:38imagine if people
00:24:39found out this was happening.
00:24:40Imagine if your parents
00:24:41found out this was happening.
00:24:42What do you think
00:24:43they'd say?
00:24:44What do you think
00:24:44they'd say?
00:24:47So there was no way out
00:24:48as far as I was concerned.
00:24:58While I was investigating
00:25:00Max Clifford,
00:25:00I learned he was
00:25:01organizing sex parties
00:25:03where he'd used young women
00:25:05in order to win favor
00:25:07with his clients.
00:25:09When you're working
00:25:09on a story like this,
00:25:11the most important thing
00:25:12is that you have
00:25:13witnesses who are willing
00:25:14to speak out
00:25:15and say something.
00:25:16And I had those in the bag.
00:25:18That was the first thing.
00:25:18So I was beginning
00:25:20to get reasonably confident
00:25:21about my story.
00:25:26I thought I had
00:25:27a really good story.
00:25:28I still thought
00:25:28the elements
00:25:29that I needed for it.
00:25:30And I began calling people
00:25:32who I had been told
00:25:34had attended
00:25:35Max Clifford's sex parties.
00:25:37And in fact,
00:25:38one of them that I called
00:25:40was extremely upset
00:25:41with me in a way
00:25:42which made me feel
00:25:43that I was getting
00:25:43very close to the nub.
00:25:46And he slammed
00:25:47the phone down on me.
00:25:49The next thing I knew
00:25:50I had Max Clifford
00:25:51on the phone to me
00:25:53directly at my desk.
00:25:54And he was screaming
00:25:56and shouting,
00:25:57you are fucking finished,
00:25:58you fucking cunt,
00:26:00I don't want you,
00:26:00don't you dare
00:26:01approach people like this,
00:26:02how dare you,
00:26:03fucking I'll have you,
00:26:04et cetera.
00:26:05And a long barrage
00:26:07of that kind of material.
00:26:11And after that phone call,
00:26:14I then received a call
00:26:17from one of my senior editors
00:26:19at the paper
00:26:19asking me to come
00:26:20to his office.
00:26:22And he called me in
00:26:23and he said,
00:26:23I've just had a call
00:26:24from Max.
00:26:25He said,
00:26:26what have you got?
00:26:29I went back to my desk
00:26:30and I wrote it out
00:26:31and I delivered that
00:26:32with my files
00:26:33to my senior editor
00:26:35as required
00:26:37and waited to know
00:26:38about when it was likely
00:26:39to go into the paper.
00:26:41What happened?
00:26:42Well, what happened
00:26:43after that
00:26:44was precisely
00:26:45nothing happened
00:26:46in the sense
00:26:47that I never heard
00:26:48another word
00:26:50about that story.
00:26:51I was quite shocked
00:26:52when the article
00:26:53was not published
00:26:54because I've been
00:26:54a journalist
00:26:56for 37 years
00:26:58and so I know
00:26:59what you can publish
00:27:00and what you can't publish
00:27:01and the quality
00:27:02of the sourcing
00:27:04and the evidence
00:27:04was very strong.
00:27:05He was a big name
00:27:06but in big story
00:27:07would have helped sales
00:27:09of the mail on Sunday.
00:27:10So I was quite stunned
00:27:12but I was never given
00:27:13a specific reason
00:27:14why the article
00:27:16was never published.
00:27:20To this day
00:27:21it makes me very angry
00:27:21because had we published
00:27:24at the time
00:27:26then who's to say
00:27:27what would have happened
00:27:28with Clifford
00:27:28and his public career?
00:27:29It might have been over.
00:27:30He could have been
00:27:31stopped in his tracks
00:27:32at that point.
00:27:35At one point
00:27:36some weeks later
00:27:37I said to Max
00:27:38by the way Max
00:27:39there was a whisper
00:27:39around a couple of weeks
00:27:40ago that these men
00:27:41on Sunday
00:27:41were going to
00:27:42do a rather damaging
00:27:43expose story on you.
00:27:45You know.
00:27:46True or false Max?
00:27:47He like laughed
00:27:48and said
00:27:49yeah they were
00:27:50they were going to try
00:27:51but the story went away
00:27:52didn't it?
00:27:53He said laughing.
00:27:55He was prepared
00:27:56to do anything
00:27:57to stop his secret life
00:27:59being exposed.
00:28:00It really showed to me
00:28:01the power of this man.
00:28:06I think Max loved power.
00:28:08It made him feel good
00:28:10it made him feel
00:28:11he got somewhere in life
00:28:13and he really liked
00:28:15being in the centre of things.
00:28:20Can you hear okay?
00:28:23Yes?
00:28:26So I mean
00:28:27how do you think
00:28:27he actually handled
00:28:28the hard thing?
00:28:29Um
00:28:29he's handled it
00:28:31very well.
00:28:32He would comment
00:28:33on a big breaking story
00:28:35at the drop of a hat
00:28:36because he was selling
00:28:38Max Clifford.
00:28:39Max do you still have
00:28:40something up your sleeve?
00:28:41Will we be reading
00:28:42something else
00:28:43in Sunday's newspapers?
00:28:44He was a master
00:28:45of self-promotion
00:28:46but he was also
00:28:48helped in that
00:28:49by broadcasters
00:28:50and by the upmarket newspapers
00:28:53who bought into
00:28:54Max's story
00:28:55you know
00:28:56I am the great PR
00:28:57I am the king
00:28:58of kiss and tell
00:28:59and they gave him
00:29:00the platform.
00:29:01We've got Max Clifford
00:29:02on the line now.
00:29:03Good afternoon to you
00:29:03Mr Clifford.
00:29:04Afternoon.
00:29:05You've represented
00:29:06clients like Michael Jackson.
00:29:08What do you think
00:29:08he's doing wrong
00:29:08at the moment
00:29:09if anything?
00:29:10He once told me
00:29:11that he loved to have
00:29:13as he saw it
00:29:14newspapers and editors
00:29:15dancing to his tune.
00:29:17There's a lot of
00:29:18a lot of material
00:29:19out there
00:29:20which has been
00:29:20investigated
00:29:21by various newspapers
00:29:22which if it can be
00:29:23proven to be true
00:29:24is dynamite.
00:29:26He reveled in that
00:29:27he found that
00:29:28both amusing
00:29:29and it played
00:29:30to his vanity.
00:29:31Max liked to think
00:29:33that he could get away
00:29:34with anything.
00:29:43The abuse
00:29:44kind of grew
00:29:44and escalated.
00:29:48He would drive
00:29:49into this car park
00:29:49which was empty
00:29:51which was empty
00:29:52and then he
00:29:57he would expose himself
00:29:59and he would ask me
00:29:59to give him all sex.
00:30:07And the next time
00:30:08I saw him
00:30:08he told me
00:30:09that there had been
00:30:11a photographer
00:30:12in the bushes
00:30:13from a tabloid
00:30:14publication
00:30:15and they'd taken
00:30:16photographs
00:30:17and he said
00:30:18the photographs
00:30:18you know
00:30:18they were really
00:30:19close up
00:30:19you could see
00:30:20freckles on the
00:30:20photographs
00:30:22and he said
00:30:23I'm trying to
00:30:23keep the photos
00:30:24out of the papers.
00:30:26He said
00:30:26but don't worry
00:30:27because I'm in
00:30:27control of this
00:30:28situation
00:30:28I will do
00:30:29something about it.
00:30:33I had an image
00:30:34in my head
00:30:34of my face
00:30:35on the front
00:30:36of a newspaper
00:30:40in a sex act.
00:30:45He would be saying
00:30:46you've got to
00:30:46keep seeing me
00:30:47you've got to
00:30:47keep doing
00:30:48what I'm telling
00:30:48you to do
00:30:50because if you
00:30:51don't see me
00:30:52the photos are
00:30:52going to be
00:30:53on the front
00:30:53page of a
00:30:53newspaper
00:30:55he was
00:30:55blackmailing me
00:30:57I'm sure
00:30:58there weren't
00:30:58any photographs
00:30:59taken
00:31:00but I believe
00:31:01there were
00:31:02because I
00:31:02trusted him
00:31:03and I just
00:31:04thought right
00:31:05well now
00:31:05everything is
00:31:06lost
00:31:06I've lost
00:31:06everything now
00:31:08my whole world
00:31:09my whole family
00:31:10everything is gone
00:31:13that's it
00:31:14I felt kind of
00:31:15like I was
00:31:15on the edge
00:31:16of a cliff
00:31:16quite frankly
00:31:17and I was
00:31:18looking down
00:31:18and at any
00:31:20moment I was
00:31:20going to go
00:31:21over the edge
00:31:21into that abyss
00:31:27the next time
00:31:28I saw him
00:31:28I said I'm
00:31:29going to kill
00:31:29myself
00:31:30I'm going to
00:31:30kill myself
00:31:32and I think
00:31:32he thought
00:31:33well actually
00:31:33this is getting
00:31:34a bit dangerous
00:31:34because if she
00:31:35does do something
00:31:36then people are
00:31:37going to ask
00:31:37questions
00:31:38and he might
00:31:38get found out
00:31:40and that was it
00:31:41and then I
00:31:42never saw him
00:31:43again thank God
00:31:46yeah
00:31:47thank God
00:31:48I said that
00:31:54over the years
00:31:55I felt that
00:31:56I should have
00:31:57acted in a certain
00:31:58way to stop it
00:31:58from happening
00:31:59why didn't I
00:32:00get out the car
00:32:02and run
00:32:02why didn't I
00:32:03punch him
00:32:04in the face
00:32:05why didn't I
00:32:08tell my parents
00:32:09but if the adults
00:32:11were all taken
00:32:12in by what he's
00:32:13saying
00:32:13why would the
00:32:14child know
00:32:15differently
00:32:21I learnt earlier
00:32:23on that it was
00:32:24important to have
00:32:25as much control
00:32:26as possible
00:32:28you can expose
00:32:31those that deserve
00:32:32to be exposed
00:32:33in my view
00:32:34at the same time
00:32:35protecting those
00:32:36that deserve to be
00:32:37protected
00:32:37it's a wonderful
00:32:39position to be
00:32:41one of the odd
00:32:42things about Max
00:32:43was he seemed
00:32:45to have a very
00:32:46strong sense
00:32:47of what he thought
00:32:47was right
00:32:48and what he thought
00:32:49was wrong
00:32:50he thought of himself
00:32:51as a sort of
00:32:52mini saviour
00:32:53I think
00:32:56exposing paedophiles
00:32:57and things like that
00:32:58that's something
00:32:58I enjoy
00:32:59that's something
00:33:00that I personally
00:33:00that means something
00:33:01to me
00:33:03it sounded
00:33:05genuine
00:33:05at the time
00:33:07I believed him
00:33:14when he heard
00:33:16about Gary Glitter
00:33:18he was determined
00:33:20to do everything
00:33:21he could
00:33:21to expose
00:33:23his evilness
00:33:29Max worked
00:33:30on the story
00:33:31for about
00:33:32ten years
00:33:33he'd heard
00:33:34numerous
00:33:35times
00:33:36that he was
00:33:37abusing girls
00:33:38but he couldn't
00:33:39get any of the
00:33:39girls
00:33:40and he couldn't
00:33:40get any
00:33:41proper evidence
00:33:42that would prove
00:33:44that it was
00:33:45happening
00:33:45and eventually
00:33:48one girl
00:33:49came forward
00:33:50Alison
00:33:52Gary Glitter
00:33:53started abusing
00:33:54Alison Brown
00:33:55when she was
00:33:56fourteen
00:33:57Max sorted out
00:33:59an interview
00:33:59for her
00:34:00he looked after
00:34:01her
00:34:02he was very
00:34:02very kind
00:34:03to her
00:34:05it did bring
00:34:06things out
00:34:07in the papers
00:34:07and the end
00:34:09result was
00:34:10that Glitter
00:34:10was then known
00:34:11for what he was
00:34:13I remember
00:34:14punching the air
00:34:14with triumph
00:34:15when that front
00:34:15page came out
00:34:16because it meant
00:34:17anywhere that
00:34:18Glitter went
00:34:18people were
00:34:20watching him
00:34:20families were
00:34:21watching him
00:34:22as a pervert
00:34:23people were
00:34:24watching him
00:34:25tell me
00:34:25just on record
00:34:27why you hate
00:34:28that sort of thing
00:34:29it's
00:34:29innocent children
00:34:31it's
00:34:31corrupting
00:34:33it's
00:34:33it's
00:34:34it's
00:34:35filthy
00:34:35people
00:34:36corrupting
00:34:37them
00:34:37with their
00:34:38you know
00:34:39their disease
00:34:40it's horrible
00:34:41it's taking
00:34:43advantage
00:34:44it's destroying
00:34:45their innocence
00:34:47they're just
00:34:48vile people
00:34:50well he's
00:34:51describing himself
00:34:52isn't he
00:34:55and of course
00:34:56he'd understand
00:34:57the complexities
00:34:57of Gary Glitter
00:34:59because
00:34:59he's
00:35:00he's
00:35:01exactly
00:35:01the same
00:35:05she would
00:35:05have been
00:35:05about the
00:35:06same age
00:35:06that I was
00:35:07when he was
00:35:08abusing me
00:35:08I mean
00:35:08just the hypocrisy
00:35:10is off the scale
00:35:11publicist
00:35:12promoter
00:35:13keeper of the
00:35:14flame of truth
00:35:14Max Clifford
00:35:23over the years
00:35:24he would be
00:35:25you know
00:35:25popping up
00:35:26just about
00:35:26everywhere
00:35:27thanks
00:35:28good to see
00:35:28and that was
00:35:29really
00:35:31sick making
00:35:32especially
00:35:33when he was
00:35:35spouting off
00:35:36on moral issues
00:35:37it wasn't the fact
00:35:38he was gay
00:35:39it was the fact
00:35:39that he was doing
00:35:40the things he was
00:35:41doing
00:35:41in public toilets
00:35:42where children go
00:35:43that's what I find
00:35:44revolting
00:35:45it's a double
00:35:46standards
00:35:46it's a downright
00:35:47liars
00:35:48of people that
00:35:48pretended to be
00:35:49one thing
00:35:50when they were
00:35:51totally different
00:35:51I'm quite happy
00:35:53showing them up
00:35:53for what they
00:35:54really are
00:35:54the way he
00:35:55operated was
00:35:56completely
00:35:56at odds
00:35:57with his public
00:35:59persona
00:35:59I knew the truth
00:36:00about him
00:36:01and how his whole
00:36:02life had been a
00:36:03catalogue of lies
00:36:06but he was
00:36:07obviously very
00:36:07very powerful
00:36:09and that felt
00:36:10very very threatening
00:36:11and quite frightening
00:36:12I felt sure
00:36:13that he would
00:36:14find some way
00:36:14to intimidate me
00:36:17so I was never
00:36:18going to tell
00:36:28the reputation
00:36:30of Sir Jimmy Savile
00:36:31has been tarnished
00:36:32by allegations
00:36:32of sexual abuse
00:36:34against young
00:36:35teenage girls
00:36:35the revelations
00:36:38about Jimmy Savile
00:36:39was a huge shock
00:36:41for everybody
00:36:42and I think
00:36:44it very much
00:36:44changed our
00:36:45attitude
00:36:46to historic
00:36:47abuse
00:36:48and rape
00:36:49a door
00:36:50had been opened
00:36:51that people
00:36:52could suddenly
00:36:53talk about it
00:36:54Max was of course
00:36:56asked to give
00:36:56his comment
00:36:57on this
00:36:58because it was
00:36:59sort of right up
00:37:00his street really
00:37:00PR consultant
00:37:01Max Clifford
00:37:02says he's been
00:37:03approached by a number
00:37:04of entertainers
00:37:05who are concerned
00:37:05about allegations
00:37:06being made
00:37:07against them
00:37:07because of the
00:37:08lifestyle they
00:37:09lived in the past
00:37:10if you're 1920
00:37:11suddenly you become
00:37:13a pop star
00:37:13and suddenly
00:37:14a dozen girls
00:37:16burst into
00:37:16your dressing room
00:37:17changing room
00:37:18or whatever
00:37:19and that's the kind
00:37:20of thing that did
00:37:21and would happen
00:37:22you don't actually
00:37:24sit there
00:37:24and ask for birth
00:37:25certificates
00:37:26the publicist
00:37:27has questioned
00:37:28the direction
00:37:29of the inquiry
00:37:30this whole thing
00:37:31is developing
00:37:31into a huge
00:37:32witch hunt
00:37:33Max Clifford
00:37:35started talking
00:37:36about the Jimmy
00:37:36Savile scandal
00:37:38didn't stop
00:37:39talking about it
00:37:40actually
00:37:40always given
00:37:42completely free reign
00:37:43to say whatever
00:37:44he wanted to
00:37:45never questioned
00:37:46whether this was
00:37:46a good thing
00:37:47should he really
00:37:48be coming out
00:37:48and making
00:37:51excuses for
00:37:53famous people
00:37:54who might have
00:37:54abused underage
00:37:56girls or boys
00:37:58it was just kind of
00:37:59you know
00:37:59let's hear you talk
00:37:59Max
00:38:00aren't you wonderful
00:38:00Max
00:38:02just astounding
00:38:03seem to recall
00:38:04that you yourself
00:38:05in your biography
00:38:07Max
00:38:07talked about
00:38:08some of the
00:38:08you know
00:38:09the seediest side
00:38:11of life back then
00:38:12I can only say
00:38:13from everything
00:38:13that I ever saw
00:38:14and experienced
00:38:15that the young girls
00:38:16were extremely anxious
00:38:18to be part of
00:38:19these things
00:38:22and that was
00:38:22at the point
00:38:23when I thought
00:38:24I've just had
00:38:24enough of this
00:38:25I can't stand it
00:38:25anymore
00:38:26I just thought
00:38:27I've got to do
00:38:27the right thing
00:38:28I've got to tell
00:38:29everybody how awful
00:38:30he is
00:38:30and what a liar
00:38:31he is
00:38:33because actually
00:38:34otherwise
00:38:34if I don't do it
00:38:35now I'm never
00:38:36going to do it
00:38:36and I'm always
00:38:37going to be
00:38:37that person
00:38:38who never had
00:38:38the balls
00:38:39to come forward
00:38:43and I couldn't
00:38:44forgive myself
00:38:44for that
00:38:45so I went
00:38:46to the police
00:38:46station
00:38:47and I was
00:38:47interviewed
00:38:48and then
00:38:49several months
00:38:49later
00:38:50I got a phone
00:38:51call to say
00:38:51he had been
00:38:52arrested
00:38:54publicist
00:38:54Max Clifford
00:38:55released on bail
00:38:56from police
00:38:57custody
00:38:57after being
00:38:58held on suspicion
00:38:59of sexual abuse
00:39:00he emerged
00:39:01in the last
00:39:0240 minutes
00:39:03to say he
00:39:03was innocent
00:39:0414 hours
00:39:05after being
00:39:06arrested
00:39:06by detectives
00:39:07from the
00:39:08Jimmy Savile
00:39:08inquiry
00:39:09these allegations
00:39:11are damaging
00:39:13and totally
00:39:14untrue
00:39:15anyone who
00:39:16really knew
00:39:17me
00:39:17all those
00:39:17years ago
00:39:18and those
00:39:20who have
00:39:20known me
00:39:21since
00:39:21will have
00:39:22no doubt
00:39:23that I would
00:39:24never act
00:39:25in the way
00:39:25I had
00:39:26today
00:39:27been accused
00:39:34I was totally
00:39:37shocked
00:39:37when I heard
00:39:39what he'd
00:39:39been arrested
00:39:40for
00:39:40I had
00:39:40no idea
00:39:42about
00:39:42him
00:39:43having
00:39:43sex
00:39:44with
00:39:44underage
00:39:45girls
00:39:46and
00:39:47I just
00:39:48felt sick
00:39:50really
00:39:58he didn't
00:39:59skulk
00:39:59away
00:40:00as often
00:40:01alleged
00:40:01sex offenders
00:40:02do
00:40:02walk away
00:40:03with a cover
00:40:03of them
00:40:03Max comes
00:40:04out
00:40:04and passionately
00:40:06denied
00:40:06these allegations
00:40:08and he seemed
00:40:10sincere
00:40:15so either he
00:40:16was taking it
00:40:17or he believed
00:40:18it
00:40:26my first impressions
00:40:27of him was
00:40:28he was
00:40:29he was polite
00:40:30he was smart
00:40:31he arrived with
00:40:32three solicitors
00:40:33which I thought
00:40:34was a little bit
00:40:35excessive
00:40:35because he wanted
00:40:36to project
00:40:37success
00:40:38and
00:40:38power
00:40:40and importance
00:40:41that was all
00:40:42part of the act
00:40:43really
00:40:46the initial
00:40:47interview was
00:40:48just to capture
00:40:49what he had to say
00:40:50about the allegation
00:40:51itself
00:40:52and he wanted
00:40:53to set out
00:40:54his
00:40:55story
00:40:59he denied
00:41:00any sexual
00:41:01offences
00:41:02and he was
00:41:03drawing attention
00:41:03to the fact
00:41:04that he
00:41:05had orchestrated
00:41:06a campaign
00:41:07against paedophilia
00:41:08in one of the
00:41:09tabloids
00:41:10and that he was
00:41:11publicly known
00:41:12to be a campaigner
00:41:14against paedophilia
00:41:17it was a way
00:41:18of trying to
00:41:18persuade and
00:41:19convince that
00:41:20well you know
00:41:20it's just not me
00:41:21I'm not that kind
00:41:23of guy
00:41:23look what I've
00:41:24done
00:41:24you know
00:41:29he can be
00:41:30charming
00:41:31that's why
00:41:31he's successful
00:41:34he's in
00:41:35in the art of persuasion
00:41:36how he's articulate
00:41:37and yeah I could see
00:41:39it would be quite easy
00:41:39to accept what he said
00:41:43at face value
00:41:45I remember him calling me up
00:41:49and say look
00:41:50I'm just calling you up
00:41:51so that you don't worry
00:41:53about me
00:41:55and there's a bit of a problem
00:41:57with allegations
00:41:59about what I've been doing
00:42:01but don't worry
00:42:03it's absolute nonsense
00:42:04and they'll never get to court
00:42:07it was a rather strange call
00:42:09but he was so confident
00:42:10that it was all going
00:42:11to be fine
00:42:13I thought
00:42:14well you know
00:42:16let's wait and see
00:42:18he was pretty confident
00:42:20I think he was pretty sure
00:42:21that it wasn't going
00:42:23to go anywhere
00:42:25do you think he
00:42:26thought he was kind of
00:42:28cleverer than you
00:42:29always
00:42:30yeah always
00:42:31I think he thought
00:42:32he was in control
00:42:33yeah
00:42:38my mother rang me at work
00:42:40and she said
00:42:42they've arrested you
00:42:43Max Clifford
00:42:44and that night
00:42:45I rang the police
00:42:47in central London
00:42:48and said
00:42:50I don't know
00:42:52if this will be
00:42:53of any help
00:42:53but
00:42:54I could have
00:42:56some information
00:42:57about what happened
00:42:58to me
00:43:02within a few days
00:43:03other individuals
00:43:04came forward
00:43:05and there was a lot
00:43:06of information
00:43:07coming in
00:43:08from all over the country
00:43:09it became apparent
00:43:10that this was
00:43:11this was going to be
00:43:12quite a big thing
00:43:14I was surprised
00:43:15and really pleased
00:43:16when he was arrested
00:43:17but it still took me
00:43:18a long time
00:43:18to come forward
00:43:19and I kept phoning
00:43:20the police
00:43:21from phone boxes
00:43:23I didn't even
00:43:24want them to my number
00:43:24I was so frightened
00:43:25of him
00:43:26there were some
00:43:27real similarities
00:43:28between the allegations
00:43:29and many of these
00:43:30individuals
00:43:31they'd never met
00:43:32they'd never had
00:43:32any contact
00:43:33of any kind
00:43:34they had no reason
00:43:34to know each other
00:43:35or anything
00:43:37and so
00:43:38it started to
00:43:40build a picture
00:43:41of a particular
00:43:43kind of behaviour
00:43:47I grew up
00:43:48in the north of England
00:43:49I hadn't really
00:43:51gone to school
00:43:52and was at a loss
00:43:54as to what I would do
00:43:57because I was tall
00:43:59people kept saying
00:44:00to me
00:44:00you should be
00:44:01a catwalk model
00:44:03how old were you
00:44:04when you went
00:44:04down to London
00:44:0717
00:44:08I was on my own
00:44:09with no friends
00:44:11and no money
00:44:12so it was scary
00:44:14and overwhelming
00:44:17it was about 1982
00:44:18I think
00:44:19so I was 19
00:44:21I was a small town
00:44:23beauty queen
00:44:24but I never really
00:44:25fitted in
00:44:26and I wanted to get
00:44:27away from where I lived
00:44:28I had aspirations
00:44:30I suppose
00:44:30of being a model
00:44:32so I wanted to get
00:44:33up to London
00:44:36a photographer
00:44:37that I had been
00:44:39sent to
00:44:39kept mentioning
00:44:41I had to go
00:44:41and meet
00:44:42Max Clifford
00:44:43he wouldn't stop
00:44:45going on about it
00:44:47so I felt
00:44:48I had to do it
00:44:50the office
00:44:51was on
00:44:51New Bond Street
00:44:52and I go upstairs
00:44:54and Max Clifford
00:44:56ushers me in
00:44:58and as he
00:44:59shut the door
00:45:01he locked it
00:45:02and I thought
00:45:02he's locked the door
00:45:04he said
00:45:05I make people famous
00:45:06I give stories
00:45:08to the press
00:45:09I create stories
00:45:10this was a world
00:45:11that I had
00:45:13no interest in
00:45:14it was
00:45:14if anything
00:45:15tacky
00:45:19my friend
00:45:20was a temporary
00:45:21receptionist
00:45:22in Max Clifford's
00:45:23office
00:45:24I would go there
00:45:25and wait
00:45:26for my friend
00:45:27one time
00:45:29Max Clifford
00:45:30called me into his office
00:45:31and I remember
00:45:32thinking
00:45:33what on earth
00:45:34can he want
00:45:35because he had
00:45:36no business with me
00:45:39the secretary
00:45:40rang through
00:45:42and must have said
00:45:44you have a phone call
00:45:45and it became
00:45:46very clear
00:45:47he was on the phone
00:45:48to his wife
00:45:49he then
00:45:50unzipped his trousers
00:45:52and started
00:45:53masturbating
00:45:55whilst talking
00:45:56to his wife
00:45:57on the phone
00:46:01Max Clifford
00:46:02stood up
00:46:03from his seat
00:46:04he's undoing
00:46:05his trousers
00:46:05as he walked
00:46:06round
00:46:07I remember
00:46:08it sounded like
00:46:09the sound of a buckle
00:46:09maybe
00:46:10he came
00:46:11around the desk
00:46:12and I remember
00:46:13I'm thinking
00:46:13oh my god
00:46:14and he put
00:46:16my hand
00:46:17on his penis
00:46:20he's barring
00:46:21the office door
00:46:22so I couldn't get out
00:46:24and so I have
00:46:25to make the choice
00:46:26of either
00:46:27doing what he wants
00:46:28which is
00:46:28to masturbate him
00:46:30or to open
00:46:31the door somehow
00:46:32and launch myself
00:46:33into the office
00:46:34with all these people
00:46:35that I don't really know
00:46:36and so
00:46:36I
00:46:38I
00:46:39did what I wish
00:46:40I hadn't done
00:46:41and masturbated him
00:46:42until
00:46:44until
00:46:46fruition
00:46:49it's not very nice
00:46:50is it
00:46:52and
00:46:55I don't know
00:46:56I could be upset
00:46:59what I'm angry
00:47:02I'm angry
00:47:03that I was so used
00:47:06he's now coming
00:47:07across the desk
00:47:09to me
00:47:10whilst masturbating
00:47:11and still on the phone
00:47:13to his wife
00:47:14at this point
00:47:16it's a case of
00:47:17disbelief
00:47:19and paralysis
00:47:20he corners me
00:47:22and then proceeds
00:47:23to do what he wants
00:47:25until
00:47:26he had finished
00:47:29and
00:47:30I was so ashamed
00:47:31I remember afterwards
00:47:33I couldn't understand
00:47:34why did he pick
00:47:36on me
00:47:36and it took me
00:47:38a long time
00:47:39to realise
00:47:39he wanted
00:47:40to have that experience
00:47:43with somebody
00:47:44who was
00:47:45unwilling
00:47:46scared
00:47:47somebody
00:47:48who's not long
00:47:49since been
00:47:50a child
00:47:51really
00:47:59okay
00:47:59alright
00:48:00bless him
00:48:00look
00:48:01don't worry
00:48:01relax
00:48:02don't worry
00:48:02no
00:48:05and it's PR consultant
00:48:07public relations
00:48:08consultant
00:48:08Max Kiffin
00:48:13can't see the join
00:48:14or anything
00:48:15can you
00:48:18then I'm gonna have
00:48:19some fish and chips
00:48:20you lot can go home
00:48:21then
00:48:23less than an hour ago
00:48:24it was revealed
00:48:25that Max Clifford
00:48:26has been charged
00:48:27with 11 counts
00:48:28of indecent assault
00:48:29the offences
00:48:30are alleged
00:48:30to have been committed
00:48:31over a 19 year period
00:48:33between 1966
00:48:34and 1985
00:48:36tonight
00:48:37Mr Clifford
00:48:37said the allegations
00:48:38were completely false
00:48:39I'm naturally
00:48:41disappointed
00:48:41about today's decision
00:48:43however
00:48:44at least
00:48:44I will now
00:48:45be in a position
00:48:46to clear my name
00:48:47in the court of law
00:48:49which is what
00:48:49I will now
00:48:50be looking to do
00:48:52since last December
00:48:54I've been living
00:48:55a 24-7 nightmare
00:48:57a black cloud
00:48:58has been placed
00:48:59above me
00:49:00virtually obliterating
00:49:02the bright skies
00:49:03that I have been
00:49:04fortunate enough
00:49:05to live under
00:49:06for the vast majority
00:49:07of the past
00:49:0870 years
00:49:11the amount of coverage
00:49:13that he got
00:49:13to protest his innocence
00:49:14was off the scale
00:49:17how confident
00:49:18are you of clearing
00:49:18your name
00:49:19if the truth
00:49:20comes out
00:49:20I'm 100% confident
00:49:22I know
00:49:23that none of this
00:49:24happened
00:49:25and now
00:49:26I've got to do
00:49:26everything I can
00:49:27to show
00:49:28that none of this
00:49:29happened
00:49:29he had so much
00:49:31time given to him
00:49:32to talk about
00:49:33his family
00:49:34and his charity
00:49:34work
00:49:35and what a good
00:49:35guy he was
00:49:37his business is normal
00:49:38I mean I think
00:49:39I'm speaking at a
00:49:40charity thing on Monday
00:49:41I'm speaking at a
00:49:41charity thing on Tuesday
00:49:44you know
00:49:45and I'll be working
00:49:45as I always do
00:49:48this was Max Clifford
00:49:50grooming society
00:49:51and potentially
00:49:53grooming a jury
00:49:54so they would think
00:49:55of him as a decent
00:49:56man when they walked
00:49:57into that courtroom
00:49:58thanks much
00:49:59thank you very much
00:50:00take care
00:50:02I just felt
00:50:03that it was
00:50:03going to stop
00:50:04us from
00:50:05getting a fair trial
00:50:16I was assigned
00:50:16to cover his trial
00:50:17for Channel 4 News
00:50:18I've covered numerous
00:50:20court cases over the years
00:50:21and I'd never seen
00:50:22a defendant behave
00:50:23in such an extraordinary way
00:50:28he would turn up
00:50:30to court every morning
00:50:31as if he were coming
00:50:33to a red carpet event
00:50:40there'd be lots of
00:50:41snappers outside
00:50:42court as you'd expect
00:50:43and he would turn
00:50:45so that they'd get
00:50:46every angle
00:50:47and pose for them
00:50:47as if it wasn't him
00:50:49on trial
00:50:49as if he were there
00:50:50as some sort of
00:50:51celebrity witness
00:50:52which I thought
00:50:53was very odd behaviour
00:51:03I remember looking at
00:51:04the jury
00:51:05because you're told
00:51:05to look at the jury
00:51:06and I just remember
00:51:08thinking
00:51:09how does my face look
00:51:10do I look sincere
00:51:11do I look like
00:51:12I'm telling the truth
00:51:14should I smile
00:51:15no don't smile
00:51:17and all these things
00:51:18run through your face
00:51:18because you're so
00:51:19desperate for them
00:51:20to know
00:51:21that this is the truth
00:51:24some of the offences
00:51:25that were being
00:51:25talked about
00:51:26were quite bizarre
00:51:28he'd sort of
00:51:29say to them
00:51:30that he was going
00:51:31to get
00:51:32a particular
00:51:34producer
00:51:35on the phone
00:51:36to talk to them
00:51:37about whatever part
00:51:38and then he'd go off
00:51:39and make the phone call
00:51:41and pretend to be
00:51:41this other person
00:51:42he'd actually
00:51:43adopt a persona
00:51:44and then ring
00:51:44the women
00:51:45pretending to be
00:51:46the other
00:51:47yeah
00:51:47the other individual
00:51:49I thought
00:51:50I'm going to tell them
00:51:50this and they're
00:51:51never going to believe
00:51:52it because it's so mad
00:51:57before Max Clifford
00:51:58exposed himself to me
00:51:59I was just going
00:52:00into my flat
00:52:01in Muswell Hill
00:52:01and the phone was ringing
00:52:04I picked it up
00:52:06and there's this
00:52:08really camp
00:52:09American voice
00:52:11on the phone
00:52:12and this voice said
00:52:14oh hi
00:52:15I'm Aaron Spelling
00:52:17I'm thinking
00:52:18okay
00:52:18this is really strange
00:52:19and I said
00:52:21okay hi
00:52:23he said
00:52:24now I hear
00:52:24you've seen
00:52:25my friend Max
00:52:28and I think
00:52:29he's got a hang up
00:52:30about the size
00:52:31of his penis
00:52:31and I remember
00:52:33saying to this
00:52:34Aaron Spelling
00:52:35well I don't know
00:52:36what you expect me
00:52:37to do about that
00:52:38and he says
00:52:38go and see Max
00:52:39he said
00:52:40I'm sure you'll
00:52:41work something out
00:52:42I thought
00:52:43this is Max
00:52:43Clifford
00:52:45phoning me up
00:52:46pretending to be
00:52:47Aaron Spelling
00:52:54a couple of days
00:52:55afterwards
00:52:55I was there
00:52:56in his office
00:52:56he called me in
00:52:57and I sat down
00:52:58and he said
00:52:59so did my friend
00:53:02Aaron phone you
00:53:03and I remember
00:53:04I kept looking down
00:53:05like this
00:53:06thinking oh god
00:53:07I don't know what to say
00:53:08he's tricking me
00:53:08but I don't know what to say
00:53:09and eventually
00:53:10I think I blurted it out
00:53:11I said yes
00:53:11he said
00:53:12you know
00:53:12you've got a problem
00:53:13with the size of your penis
00:53:15and as I said that
00:53:16he's got my hand
00:53:18on his penis
00:53:19and he kept saying to me
00:53:21is it the smallest penis
00:53:23you've ever seen
00:53:23is it the smallest
00:53:25it is isn't it
00:53:26it's the smallest
00:53:26you've ever seen
00:53:28what they said
00:53:29what they said
00:53:30on the surface
00:53:30sounded quite bizarre
00:53:32but then when you hear that
00:53:33a number of times
00:53:36in similar circumstances
00:53:38then it takes on
00:53:40a different power
00:53:44as long as the abuse continued
00:53:45I got very strange
00:53:47phone calls from somebody
00:53:48who said the name's Terry
00:53:50he would call me
00:53:51and say
00:53:51the way you need to get to Max Clifford
00:53:53so that he really likes you
00:53:54and thinks you're really good
00:53:55is that you need to talk dirty to him
00:53:59so you've got to practice talking dirty
00:54:01and these are the words
00:54:02you've got to say
00:54:04so say that word
00:54:05say that word now
00:54:07repeat it
00:54:07and I'd say
00:54:09I can't
00:54:10I'm at home
00:54:10my parents are in the house
00:54:12and he'd say
00:54:12well find the nearest call box
00:54:14and call me back
00:54:16so I would go to the nearest call box
00:54:18on the pretense of visiting
00:54:19a local friend
00:54:20and call him
00:54:21and then he would make me talk dirty
00:54:23to him down the phone
00:54:27I don't really want to say the words
00:54:31disgusting words
00:54:33but I didn't refuse to say the words
00:54:35I felt that I couldn't refuse
00:54:39because I had to keep Terry happy
00:54:41as well as Max Clifford
00:54:45and then
00:54:46during the abuse happening with Clifford
00:54:48he would tell me to say those words
00:54:55I mean I told you about Terry Denton
00:54:57haven't I
00:54:58Terry Denton
00:54:59Terry Denton I invented 30 years ago
00:55:02he is
00:55:04either a film financier
00:55:06a record tycoon
00:55:07whatever
00:55:10and
00:55:10he is someone that is put in touch
00:55:13with the ambitious women
00:55:14but they don't realise it's me
00:55:15for another voice
00:55:16Terry's been a very good mate to me
00:55:18for over 30 years
00:55:19as well as being a source of great amusement
00:55:23I mean
00:55:23you know the things that Terry suggested
00:55:26you know
00:55:27if I miss you
00:55:29what I would do is
00:55:30because I happen to know
00:55:31that he gets off
00:55:32and throwing people
00:55:33while someone goes in the office
00:55:35and gives him a blowjob
00:55:36if you were to do that
00:55:37I'm sure that's the way to
00:55:39because that's you know
00:55:40shows him
00:55:41to create an imagination
00:55:42and that's what they do
00:55:47that's too terrible
00:55:48my god
00:55:49why did he want to tell me that
00:55:51it was a terrible thing to tell me
00:55:53I never queried him about it
00:55:55because I thought it was just so stupid
00:55:57and superficial
00:55:58that I wasn't really the least bit interested
00:56:01but listening to it now
00:56:03I feel that it was perhaps opening
00:56:07a very dark door in his soul
00:56:11that led to a terrible underground cave
00:56:16where all the evil goes
00:56:20and that this was hearing it now
00:56:22I think it was a very evil thing
00:56:24why would someone do that?
00:56:28he must have got such immense pleasure
00:56:31out of the trickery
00:56:32I think that's what excited him
00:56:33I think it was power and control
00:56:36yeah I'm certain
00:56:37that's what I think
00:56:39it was power and control
00:56:42and the sex was just the cherry on the top
00:56:54I think the trial was very telling
00:56:59even in the way that his defence presented evidence
00:57:06you had a moment where
00:57:08some of the evidence that Max Clifford presented
00:57:10related to the size of his penis
00:57:12and suddenly the court trial became about
00:57:16Max Clifford's penis
00:57:21different witnesses
00:57:23had described their experiences with Clifford
00:57:27and there were
00:57:28there were differing accounts of
00:57:31you know the size of his penis
00:57:33the argument that they were trying to draw
00:57:35out of that was the fact that you couldn't rely on the
00:57:38on the testimony of the of the witnesses
00:57:41the size of his private parts were referred to
00:57:44in explicit detail
00:57:45as the defence tried to show the women were lying
00:57:47and had never seen him naked
00:57:49my view on it was that it was a deflection
00:57:51it was it was a means of trivialising
00:57:53what happened to the victims
00:57:56and I thought it was reprehensible
00:58:01but one of the reasons why
00:58:03there is so many problems with historic sexual crime
00:58:07getting through to a conviction stage
00:58:09is that if you have somebody saying
00:58:12yeah 20 years ago we were in this place at this time
00:58:15you may have no other evidence to to support that
00:58:19so the credibility and the
00:58:21the confidence that the jury have in that witness
00:58:25then becomes crucial
00:58:28I wrote him a letter in 2011
00:58:31the year before I went to the police
00:58:34the letter was read out in court
00:58:36and it was very important for the trial
00:58:38because it corroborated what I'd been telling them
00:58:40about what happened to me
00:58:44it's taken me 35 years to write this letter
00:58:47so hopefully it will reach you
00:58:49I wondered if you remembered as I do
00:58:51the child sexual abuse you engaged in
00:58:53befriending my parents flattering their daughter
00:58:56you took pleasure in degrading me
00:58:59even inventing another person
00:59:01who telephoned and demanded that I talk dirty to them
00:59:05what was his name
00:59:06that's right Max
00:59:07pretending to be Terry
00:59:11the letter was found in the drawer by his bed
00:59:15why do you think he kept it
00:59:16I wouldn't like to hazard a guess
00:59:18as to why he would have kept it
00:59:20but the letter was there on its own
00:59:22it was you know
00:59:23it was um
00:59:25it was clearly significant
00:59:28you raped me
00:59:29you blackmailed me
00:59:31I had no one to turn to
00:59:32you made my life a living hell
00:59:34up until the point
00:59:34when I even contemplated suicide
00:59:37shame on you
00:59:39he was
00:59:41rattled by it
00:59:42as the time went on
00:59:43the pressure was
00:59:44was telling
00:59:45and he did appear to
00:59:46just become a bit frayed at the edges
00:59:50he rang me up
00:59:51asking if I'd consider being a character witness for him
00:59:55you know
00:59:56even though he was denying it
00:59:58there was something about his tone of voice
01:00:00that betrayed
01:00:02that he was
01:00:03more than just a little bit nervous
01:00:07it wasn't
01:00:08the braggadocio bravado Max at all
01:00:12it was a
01:00:12very deeply worried
01:00:15nervous Max
01:00:20Rosina Cottage QC
01:00:21for the prosecution
01:00:22began her closing speech
01:00:24she said to the jury
01:00:26you have seen what's gone on in this courtroom
01:00:28you can tell who is lying
01:00:30and she went on to say
01:00:32it is not fun
01:00:33standing there
01:00:34being accused of being a fantasist
01:00:36or a liar
01:00:36we also heard
01:00:38more evidence
01:00:39surrounding
01:00:39Max Clifford's
01:00:41intimate
01:00:41size details
01:00:42and once again
01:00:44Rosina Cottage QC
01:00:46said to the jury
01:00:47that it is not important
01:00:48the size
01:00:49it is what he has done with it
01:00:51very much
01:00:53I'm fine thank you
01:00:54you okay
01:00:54yeah
01:00:56we'll carry on
01:00:56shall we
01:00:57carry on
01:00:57okay
01:01:03when he got behind
01:01:04a TV reporter
01:01:05I thought
01:01:06where's your dignity
01:01:07where's your adulthood
01:01:09you know
01:01:10this is really serious
01:01:12the only
01:01:13reason I can find
01:01:15for doing that
01:01:16is that
01:01:16it helped him
01:01:17not take it on board
01:01:19what was really happening
01:01:20it must have been like
01:01:22the biggest nightmare
01:01:23for him
01:01:24he was losing everything
01:01:25as quick as a flash
01:01:26and he regressed
01:01:29to being
01:01:30like a child
01:01:33when you look back
01:01:34I think there was an air
01:01:35of desperation
01:01:35about it
01:01:37but I just think he wanted
01:01:39that moment
01:01:40you know
01:01:41as some sort of
01:01:41rekindling
01:01:42of the ebullient
01:01:43you know
01:01:43showman Max
01:01:44it was almost a bit like
01:01:46he wanted to
01:01:47be again
01:01:48the circus ringmaster
01:01:55I remember every day
01:01:56waiting for the verdict
01:01:58and on absolute tenterhooks
01:02:00you still think
01:02:01oh my god
01:02:02he's going to get away with it
01:02:03that was my absolute horror
01:02:05that he would
01:02:05get away with it
01:02:15I've been told
01:02:16by my lawyers
01:02:18to say
01:02:19nothing
01:02:19at all
01:02:22the publicist
01:02:23Max Clifford
01:02:24has been found guilty
01:02:25of indecent assaults
01:02:27on women
01:02:27and girls
01:02:28as young as 15
01:02:29by a jury
01:02:30at Southwark Crown Court
01:02:31it's time to say sorry
01:02:32Mr Clifford
01:02:33will you appeal Max
01:02:38I heard it break
01:02:39on the radio
01:02:40when I got the news
01:02:43I just couldn't believe it
01:02:45I couldn't believe it
01:02:46I mean I did
01:02:47I did break down
01:02:47and cry
01:02:48but it was kind of
01:02:49tears of happiness
01:02:49actually
01:02:52the publicist
01:02:53has been bailed
01:02:53until Friday
01:02:54when he'll return
01:02:55for sentencing
01:02:56here he comes
01:02:59Mr Clifford
01:03:00come and talk
01:03:01to Sky News
01:03:02one thing that
01:03:03was really clear
01:03:04to me
01:03:04was the difference
01:03:05between the guy
01:03:06that walked into
01:03:07the custody office
01:03:08in Belgravia
01:03:09that first time
01:03:10and the one
01:03:11who came out
01:03:12after he'd been
01:03:13found guilty
01:03:13there was a very
01:03:15visible difference
01:03:16he just suddenly
01:03:17looked vulnerable
01:03:18and frail
01:03:19which he hadn't
01:03:20before
01:03:20Mr Clifford
01:03:21are you planning
01:03:22on talking in court
01:03:22today?
01:03:23No?
01:03:25Do you think
01:03:25your victims
01:03:26are owed an apology
01:03:27for the crimes
01:03:27that you've been
01:03:28convicted of?
01:03:32What are you
01:03:33expecting to happen
01:03:34today?
01:03:35Well I'll go to
01:03:36court and I'll be
01:03:37sentenced
01:03:37and that's what's
01:03:39going to happen
01:03:40today
01:03:42I think it was
01:03:43really at that
01:03:44point that you
01:03:45realised that a lot
01:03:46of what had been
01:03:46there was just a
01:03:47mask
01:03:48Would you like to
01:03:48say anything on
01:03:49your behalf before
01:03:49you're sentenced?
01:03:50No I've got nothing
01:03:52to add to all the
01:03:53things I haven't said
01:03:54in the last 17 months
01:03:56since it started
01:03:57And how are you
01:03:58feeling today?
01:03:59Well it's not the
01:04:00best day of my life
01:04:01is it?
01:04:01But you know
01:04:02that's how it is
01:04:03I just have to
01:04:03face up to it
01:04:05I don't think he
01:04:06ever believed he
01:04:06was a paedophile
01:04:07I don't think he
01:04:08ever believed that
01:04:09he did it
01:04:10It wasn't a case
01:04:11of him thinking
01:04:11how am I going
01:04:12to cope with this?
01:04:13I think he never
01:04:14let it come into
01:04:15his mind
01:04:16He never let
01:04:17himself believe it
01:04:19And what are you
01:04:20planning to do now?
01:04:21Will you be appealing?
01:04:25You pretend to be
01:04:26normal but you know
01:04:27inside you're not
01:04:28and you'll never
01:04:29escape that shame
01:04:32It must feel horrible
01:04:33to know that the
01:04:34real you is so
01:04:35vile and repulsive
01:04:40Perhaps you've even
01:04:41tried to bury the
01:04:42memories better than
01:04:43that convinced
01:04:43yourself almost
01:04:44that it didn't
01:04:45happen
01:04:47You may have
01:04:48gotten away with
01:04:48it for years
01:04:49but inside you
01:04:50can't escape
01:04:50from the monster
01:04:51that you are
01:04:52the repulsive
01:04:53vile reality
01:04:54That terrible
01:04:56festering secret
01:04:57of yours
01:04:57which burdens you
01:05:14Step back please
01:05:15Step back
01:05:18When all the
01:05:19allegations broke
01:05:20about Clifford
01:05:20that's when it
01:05:22really hit me
01:05:24The fact we had
01:05:25such a strong story
01:05:26and it didn't appear
01:05:27and that there
01:05:28were other victims
01:05:29out there
01:05:30who didn't feel
01:05:32strong enough to
01:05:32come forward until
01:05:33many years later
01:05:34that is a very very
01:05:35sad state of affairs
01:05:37It wasn't that
01:05:38difficult to find
01:05:40this stuff
01:05:40if every newspaper
01:05:42in Fleet Street
01:05:42had been doing
01:05:43this kind of work
01:05:44they could have
01:05:45skinned Max Clifford
01:05:46alive
01:05:48Do you think there's
01:05:49a sense in which
01:05:49Fleet Street was
01:05:50kind of complicit
01:05:51in allowing Max
01:05:52to live this life
01:05:53and to get away
01:05:53with some of the
01:05:54stuff he got away
01:05:54with for as long
01:05:55as he did?
01:05:57It's just complicated
01:06:02I feel I can't
01:06:04entirely distance
01:06:05myself
01:06:08from it
01:06:09even though
01:06:10I had no idea
01:06:11it was going on
01:06:12because I like to feel
01:06:13I have a grip
01:06:14on people
01:06:15That's been my job
01:06:16really
01:06:17But actually
01:06:18I knew a man
01:06:20very well
01:06:21I thought
01:06:21who was behaving
01:06:22very very badly
01:06:23and all these
01:06:25years later
01:06:25I don't still
01:06:27understand it
01:06:28and I'm still
01:06:29surprised by it
01:06:32I never
01:06:33did get over it
01:06:34The more that
01:06:35I tried to
01:06:36forget it
01:06:38and I couldn't
01:06:39forget it
01:06:39the more angry
01:06:40I became
01:06:41with myself
01:06:42Why didn't
01:06:43you fight him
01:06:44off?
01:06:44Why didn't
01:06:45you shout
01:06:45and scream
01:06:46and punch him
01:06:46and bite him?
01:06:48It took me
01:06:49a long time
01:06:49to be able
01:06:50to forgive myself
01:06:52Everything
01:06:53built up
01:06:54for me
01:06:54to the court
01:06:54case
01:06:55and when
01:06:55the police
01:06:56phoned me
01:06:57with a sentence
01:06:58it was
01:06:59absolutely brilliant
01:07:02I've been waiting
01:07:0230 years
01:07:03for someone
01:07:04to do something
01:07:04It's a long time
01:07:06to wait
01:07:06isn't it
01:07:0630 years
01:07:08to get justice
01:07:15It just felt
01:07:16brilliant
01:07:16just to
01:07:19feel
01:07:19that
01:07:19myself
01:07:21and the other
01:07:21women
01:07:21had brought down
01:07:22somebody
01:07:23so powerful
01:07:27It was a huge
01:07:29release
01:07:30and
01:07:30to feel
01:07:31that the whole
01:07:32thing was over
01:07:33and that there
01:07:33had been
01:07:34some justice
01:08:01more information
01:08:01or any of the issues
01:08:02rights can be found
01:08:03and that there
01:08:05is not
01:08:07Wednesday
01:08:07night
01:08:08we share
01:08:08in London
01:08:09with the
01:08:09neighbourhoods
01:08:09fears and anxieties
01:08:10as they cover
01:08:11the pandemic
01:08:12at the 47th
01:08:14moment
01:08:15next to
01:08:15night
01:08:16moment
01:08:16the grip
01:08:17is shut
01:08:17yet
01:08:18Amen.
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