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00:00Oprah's Worldwide Exclusive with Michael Jackson's mother Katharine.
00:03Next, Oprah.
00:07Today, all new, the Worldwide Exclusive.
00:11I was hoping you would be my mother-in-law, did you know that?
00:15Oprah at Home with Michael Jackson's mother Katharine.
00:19When you hear, come to the hospital, it's Michael.
00:23In your heart, did you know?
00:26Who told you?
00:27His father, Joe.
00:28I'm really surprised to see you here, Mr. Jackson.
00:32Do you think he was afraid of you?
00:34And a visit with his children, next.
00:38Thank you so much for inviting me to you.
00:41Oh, you're welcome. It's a pleasure. Thank you for coming.
00:44You look so beautiful in blue. Oh, my goodness.
00:48So this is the famous Havenhurst.
00:50I guess so.
00:51This is it.
00:52We've been here 40 years.
00:54Four-oh years.
00:54At this house.
00:55At this house.
00:56Yeah.
00:56In 1949, Katharine, the daughter of a steelworker, married Joe Jackson in a small town just outside Gary, Indiana.
01:05Over the next 17 years, they raised nine children in this tiny four-room house with just one bathroom.
01:13Money was tight.
01:14But all of that changed when Marlon, Tito, Jackie, Jermaine, and Michael became the Jackson Five.
01:27These princes of pop toured the world and sold over 250 million albums.
01:31In 1971, the Jacksons left their humble roots in Indiana and moved into this estate in Encino, California, known as
01:40Havenhurst.
01:41What's up?
01:41What's up?
01:41What's up?
01:43What's up?
01:54What's up?
01:55I can imagine, having come from that little four-bedroom place in Gary, that stepping into this place must have
02:02felt like a mansion.
02:04It did.
02:05Yes.
02:06It did.
02:06What are your fondest memories of Michael growing up in this house?
02:15He and his brother Randy grew up together.
02:20So they would go out and rehearse and write.
02:24And we had a studio here, too.
02:26They wrote, what's that?
02:30Dancing Machine.
02:31Dancing Machine here?
02:32They did here.
02:34She's a Dancing Machine.
02:37But by the time you got to this house, you all were already pretty famous household names.
02:42Yes.
02:43That was the time where I was hoping you would be my mother-in-law.
02:46Did you know that?
02:47Because I love Jackie Jackson.
02:49He was my favorite Jackson.
02:51And I laugh about him.
02:53And I thought, you know, I used to watch the Jackson cartoon, and every time I would see the Jackson
02:58Five, I would say, I'm going to marry Jackie Jackson.
03:01I want to marry Jackie Jackson.
03:03Well, that didn't work out for me.
03:04But anyway, back then, what were your dreams for your children and your family?
03:11I just want them to be good citizens and grow up to be good fathers, which they are, all are.
03:18So you've written this book to him as a salute, as a playing homage to him.
03:27It's called Never Can Say Goodbye.
03:30Why did you want to do this?
03:32Well, I wanted to do it for his fans and for the people that misunderstood him.
03:38And I just told the stories about him.
03:42Do you think he was misunderstood?
03:44Yes, I do.
03:45When I went through this book, this book is composed of so many personal family portraits that a lot of
03:51us haven't seen.
03:52But this one stuck out to me, because this is how I remember him.
04:00How do you most remember him when you think of your son, Michael Jackson?
04:05Is that the portrait that you see in your mind?
04:08I think of my son all through the day, all the time, and I don't like to talk about him,
04:14because I get all choked up.
04:15Mm-hmm.
04:20I...
04:24It's funny.
04:25Mm-hmm.
04:27From a baby in my arms, naming him with my mother, my mother named him, until he got grown.
04:37And that comes to my mind every day.
04:41Really?
04:42Yes, it does.
04:43Mm-hmm.
04:45I asked that question, not ever having children of my own, as you know, wondering whether or not a mother
04:51holds in her heart a certain vision of her child.
04:55She do.
04:56Yeah, you do.
04:56She do.
04:57Yeah.
04:57And is that, that little boy's face, that's who you hold?
05:02That, yes.
05:02Yeah, that's the picture that you hold.
05:04Yes.
05:04That's your son.
05:05And sometimes, during the day, I can hear his laughter in my mind, the way he used to, and he
05:12always teased, and he would always laugh and have fun with his brothers, you know, when they were rehearsing or
05:18getting ready to leave town or things like that.
05:21Mm-hmm.
05:21Always playing jokes.
05:23Mm-hmm.
05:24He was a...
05:25A prankster.
05:26Yes.
05:27I remember when I interviewed him back in 1993, when I did the Michael Jackson Live around the world, and
05:34I was so nervous, one of the, the only thing that he and I actually had some disagreements about is
05:41he didn't want me to put in pictures of himself as a teenager.
05:44Because he had started changing.
05:46He had started changing.
05:48Yes.
05:48And he said he didn't like himself.
05:49And he...
05:50As an adolescent.
05:51As an adolescent.
05:51He thought he was...
05:52He goes, I don't want that in because...
05:54And I said, why?
05:55You have to have those pictures.
05:56And he said, because I'm ugly.
05:58He thought of himself as ugly.
05:59I think...
06:00Yes.
06:00He did.
06:00He did.
06:01I felt so bad for him when he went through that change.
06:03Mm-hmm.
06:04Did he share any of that with you?
06:06All the time.
06:07All the time.
06:08What would he say?
06:09He would just say...
06:09He would say, I'm just so ugly.
06:11I don't want to go out there.
06:13I said, you're not...
06:14To a mother, all her children are always beautiful.
06:17Mm-hmm.
06:17And so, one day he just decided, he got up and said, I'm going to get my nose done.
06:23It's too big.
06:24Mm-hmm.
06:25But one day he just made up his mind and he just left.
06:27Mm-hmm.
06:27And when I inquired about where he was, he had gone down to get his nose done.
06:33He thought I might try to talk him out of it, I think.
06:35Mm-hmm.
06:35So he went down and got it done.
06:37What did you think?
06:38When he...
06:39Well, is that what he wanted?
06:41Mm-hmm.
06:41That would make him happy, because he was so unhappy.
06:44Mm-hmm.
06:44He thought he was so ugly.
06:47Mm-hmm.
06:47And he did.
06:48It's got to be hard for you as a mother when you're looking at him to think.
06:51Very, very hard.
06:52Mm-hmm.
06:53Mm-hmm.
06:54So as he continued to have other operations and changed the way he looked, did you feel
07:03like you could say something to him about that?
07:09When you said he had other operations on his nose, but any other thing he didn't, except
07:15when he, his vitiligo that he had, he didn't want to start looking like a spotted cow, he
07:22said.
07:23So he just had everything done.
07:25I don't know how he did that, but he had everything, but except under his clothes.
07:29They were still, you know, changing his legs and things.
07:33Were spotted.
07:34Yes.
07:34Mm-hmm.
07:34But he got it, just part of his body in his arms and things.
07:39He changed that.
07:41Mm-hmm.
07:41But what, I don't know what in the world he did to do that, to change it, but he did.
07:46But as his look, you know, as, as a person in the public, we saw him transform himself.
07:52Mm-hmm.
07:52And what it looked like to us is that he was continuing to have surgeries.
07:57And I think when I interviewed him, he told me he'd only had two.
08:00I think he said.
08:00He had two more than two.
08:02I know.
08:02I thought he had.
08:03He was just embarrassed.
08:04Yeah.
08:04To say how many.
08:05Mm-hmm.
08:05But as he continued to change his look and change his nose, and his nose got smaller
08:10and smaller and smaller.
08:11Too small like a toothpick at one time.
08:13Really?
08:14Yes, I thought it was too small.
08:16Mm-hmm.
08:17Did you feel like you could say anything to any of your children, and especially him?
08:22Did you feel like if something was going on with him, and in this case, him changing his
08:27face and changing his looks, you could say, Michael, enough?
08:31Yes, but once they get addicted to that.
08:35I hear that people get addicted to that plastic surgery, and I think that's what happened to
08:40him.
08:40Really?
08:40Because I had told him, that's enough.
08:42Why do you keep going?
08:43And I even talked to the plastic surgeon and said, if he come there, and he wants you
08:48to work on his nose, just tell him you did it.
08:51Mm-hmm.
08:52And, you know, do the same thing and don't change it.
08:55Mm-hmm.
08:55And just tell him, okay, I'm finished, and that's it.
08:57So you had a talk with his plastic surgeon?
09:00Yes, I did.
09:00Yeah.
09:01But they didn't listen to you?
09:03No.
09:04Coming up, June 25th.
09:07The worst day of my life.
09:10And later, do you think he was afraid of you?
09:20You know, I spoke to Lisa Marie Presley recently, who I thought, you know, it was a beautiful
09:26interview because I felt for the first time that she really, really loved him.
09:31She did.
09:32Really, really loved him.
09:33She did.
09:33What did you think of that?
09:34I said to her, none of us in the world knew what to think of that marriage.
09:39Mm-hmm.
09:39What did you think when Michael told you he was marrying Lisa Marie Presley?
09:44It was a surprise to me.
09:46He called me, um, after he had married her, he called me, and, uh, he said, well, I'm
09:51going to put her on the phone.
09:52And he put her on the phone.
09:54I said, that's not her.
09:55Yes, it is.
09:56Honest goodness, it's her, he said.
09:58It didn't sound like her.
09:59She has a heavy voice, and I didn't know that.
10:02Mm-hmm.
10:02And she sounded like a black girl.
10:04Sounded like a black girl.
10:05You can say that out loud.
10:07Okay.
10:07She sounded like a black girl.
10:09Yeah, she, when she was, but I said, that's not Lisa Marie.
10:12He said, oh, yes, it is.
10:13Honest goodness.
10:13Had you met her before?
10:15No.
10:15I hadn't met Lisa before.
10:16I had seen her when she was a black girl.
10:17So he married her without bringing her home to mom?
10:20Yes, he did.
10:21Mm-hmm.
10:21One of the things that she shared with me is that his love for you was unconditional,
10:27and that there was nothing he wouldn't have done for you.
10:30Did you feel that, too?
10:32Yes, I did.
10:33And everybody I talked to that knew him would tell me the same thing.
10:37Mm-hmm.
10:37I felt it, too.
10:39Mm-hmm.
10:40And he truly, truly...
10:41And I truly loved him.
10:42Mm-hmm.
10:43And he's a boy who loved his mama.
10:46Yeah.
10:46Yes, I have to say so myself.
10:50So was it a shock to you, June 25th?
10:57Oh, gosh.
11:02Yes.
11:04Yes.
11:07The worst day of my life.
11:10On June 25th, 2009, a call to 911 is placed from this Los Angeles mansion.
11:17I need an ambulance as soon as possible.
11:19Inside, Michael Jackson is unconscious.
11:22We have a gentleman here that needs help, and he's not breathing.
11:26He's not breathing, and we need to...
11:27We're trying to pump him, but he's not...
11:29Okay.
11:31According to a coroner's report, Michael's blood contained a deadly concentration of propofol,
11:36a powerful anesthetic generally administered only in hospitals.
11:40Dr. Conrad Murray, perhaps the last person to see Michael alive, attempts to perform CPR.
11:47Did anybody see him?
11:48Yes, we have a personal doctor here with them, sir.
11:51Did anybody witness what happened?
11:53Uh, no, just the doctor, sir.
11:55The doctor's been the only one here.
11:56Camera crews scramble to the scene.
12:00Michael Jackson.
12:01There are reports that he has been rushed to a hospital.
12:07Where were you?
12:09I was...
12:10I had gone out field service that morning.
12:13Mm-hmm.
12:14And, uh, Joe had called me.
12:16Field service is...
12:17I'm a Jehovah's Witness.
12:19I know.
12:19Field service means you go door-to-door?
12:21Yes.
12:21Uh-huh.
12:22But that was earlier, so I...
12:24You still do that?
12:25Yes.
12:25Oh, my goodness.
12:27And, um, then when I got home, I got a call to come to the hospital.
12:32But Joseph had called in between and told me that somebody left Michael's house in an ambulance,
12:39and they had the whole body covered up.
12:43And I prayed all the way to the hospital.
12:47Mm-hmm.
12:48And you know how I must have felt.
12:49My heart just...
12:50Mm-hmm.
12:51Dropped.
12:52Heart dropped.
12:52And, um, and so they called me and said, come to the hospital.
12:58Michael's in the hospital.
13:00He was dead.
13:01He was dead.
13:01He was dead then, but they didn't tell me.
13:04And, um, I was going...
13:07I went down there, and, uh, my nephew kept telling me, pray, Aunt Kate.
13:13Just pray that everything's okay.
13:17Did you know?
13:19In your heart, did you know?
13:21I kind of felt it.
13:23Mm-hmm.
13:25But I was wishing that it wouldn't be.
13:27Mm-hmm.
13:40Uh, they made the doctor tell me.
13:43We stayed there a long time before he came in to tell us.
13:46Really, I guess he didn't want to either.
13:48Mm-hmm.
13:49But the doctor had to tell us Dr. Murray.
13:53Dr. Murray told you.
13:54Mm-hmm.
13:55Mm-hmm.
13:56Mm-hmm.
13:56And he came out so long.
13:59And I said, well, what happened?
14:01He kept saying, and, and I said, well, how is he?
14:05How is he?
14:05Did he make it?
14:06Or how is he?
14:07And he said, no, he's gone.
14:10That's all I remember.
14:12Mm-hmm.
14:15Mm-hmm.
14:16I'm sorry.
14:17No, I'm sorry.
14:18I'm sorry.
14:19I'm sorry.
14:20I'm sorry.
14:20That's all I remember.
14:23Who was with you at the time?
14:25My nephew.
14:26Your nephew.
14:27That's who was with me.
14:28The children were there, his children.
14:31Mm-hmm.
14:31And, um, but they were in another room.
14:34Mm-hmm.
14:35I didn't know they were there.
14:36Mm-hmm.
14:36And, um, they brought the children in.
14:39And that was his worst.
14:42His children.
14:43His children.
14:44Prince and Paris.
14:45Prince and Paris and the baby.
14:47Mm-hmm.
14:47And they were crying.
14:49And Paris was, I didn't think, I thought she was going to pass out.
14:54And she was just saying, Daddy, I can't make it without you.
14:56She must have, at least...
14:56Mm-hmm.
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