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00:00Today, the interview that made headlines around the world, Oprah on location in England, you've not spoken about Michael Jackson
00:08since his death, Lisa Marie Pressway, are you struck between the parallel in your father's life and Michael Jackson's life?
00:16Was there a lot of pressure for you to have a baby? Why did the marriage end? Did you suspect
00:21a drug problem? Do you think you could have saved him? Did he have to die for you to recognize
00:27that he loved you?
00:29Next. For my exclusive interview with Lisa Marie Pressley, we met in the English countryside, a world away from Los
00:40Angeles. Lisa is here working on her new album and spending some quality time with her husband, Michael Lockwood, and
00:47their twin girls.
00:50So the last time we talked, you did not have baby girls. Your children were teenagers. Now those teenage children
01:02are grown practically, Ben and Riley. What's that like, changing diapers 15 years later?
01:10I think now when you're, uh, when you have children later, you, you are a lot more focused and I
01:18know what's going to happen.
01:20Do you feel more confident?
01:22I feel more confident and I feel more focused and I want to spend as much time with them and
01:26I really, I don't want to lose any moments. I lost, when you're young and scattered, you tend to lose,
01:32you tend to lose moments that you don't, you know, you don't realize it's going to pass.
01:36Do you think that happened with Ben and Riley? I do a little. I, I, I was never not around.
01:41They were always with me, but I, my attention was scattered and dispersed for various reasons.
01:46Yeah. Yeah. Cause you can be there and not be there. Right. Yeah. You can be present, but still not
01:51be there. Exactly. Yeah. Is being away too, from LA, um, good for the children? Because we'd had a conversation
02:01earlier this summer.
02:02Lisa and I went hiking this summer. That's another story. Uh, but we'd had a conversation earlier this summer where
02:07we were talking about how the, kind of the culture of who's wearing what and how that, you know, transfers
02:17over to children is, you, you felt culture and lack thereof.
02:22Mm-hmm. You know, I think, um, what made me want to remove myself was just when I saw, um,
02:31in a magazine, a weekly magazine, it was a who wore it best between two, three-year-olds.
02:35What? Okay. Okay. Okay. Wow. Okay. We're, they're definitely out of here. Yeah. You know?
02:41It's gone too far, you think?
02:42I think that, I think that those, some children won't be able to have a life, uh, if it starts
02:48this young.
02:49Mm-hmm. I think that I kept my, Ben and Riley, I kept, and nobody even knew I had a
02:55son, and a lot of people didn't even know I had a daughter until, uh, a lot of just, they
03:00were never out there.
03:01When they made the choice, um, to, to be out there is when they were known about and when they
03:07walked on their own.
03:08Mm-hmm. Um, can you be as famous as your father was famous, as famous as your former husband Michael
03:20Jackson was famous, as famous as you've grown up to be, and be normal?
03:28No. I can only answer for myself. I can tell you I'm not normal.
03:33And you have managed to be, you know, relatively very private, and that's why I'm thrilled that you're talking to
03:43me today. You've made a conscious decision to talk now. Why?
03:48Every time I've ever had an interview in the past, I tend to get very defensive because I was usually
03:54promoting something, and it would cross, it would always cross into my personal life, and I tended to want to
03:59never discuss the two, like, I don't want them to cross.
04:02I know that it's hard to have them not, but I wanted to sit and really have a conversation about,
04:08uh, things that are, uh, you know, more on a personal level now, out of the way, before I do
04:14have an album coming out, which I will, uh, sometime next year, because I get that.
04:20Mm-hmm. I get that. You know, I get that. You didn't want to be in the position of promoting
04:24an album and having people ask you about Michael Jackson.
04:28Exactly.
04:29The star-crossed love affair between Lisa Marie Presley and Michael Jackson started in 1993.
04:36What began as friendship bloomed very quickly into something more.
04:40And in 1994, Lisa Marie shocked the world when she married Michael Jackson.
04:46And just a year and a half later, their marriage was over.
04:50They had not spoken for nearly a decade when Michael was found dead on June 25th, 2009, at a rented
04:56home in Los Angeles.
05:00You've not spoken about Michael Jackson since his death, other than the blog that you did.
05:04Right. And I really didn't speak well when I see previous interviews. I'm barky, and I tend to want to
05:11skirt out of it, and I would find quick little exits defensively out of it.
05:17Yeah, it's interesting because the very first interview that we did together, when I asked you, was it a real
05:25relationship, you became a little barky and defensive because?
05:31Because I didn't understand my relationship with him.
05:35Well, you know, having gotten to know you since then, I understand your defensiveness coming from your point of view,
05:44but coming from my point of view, the viewer's point of view, the world didn't know what to make of
05:53that.
05:53Right.
05:54And really, still doesn't know what to make of that. And therefore, your blog, after his death, where you said,
06:01I want to set the record straight, this relationship was not a sham, this was a real marriage, I think
06:09really struck a lot of people.
06:12Mm-hmm.
06:12And even when you said on my show, yes, this was a real marriage, there was a sexual relationship, and
06:17all of that, but the rest of the world, I think, thought it was a big staged publicity something.
06:26I don't know. Do you understand that now?
06:29I completely understand. I do.
06:30Yeah, yeah.
06:31I understand that because, to some degree, he was a master at manipulating a little bit with the media, so
06:37I understand that there was, nobody really knew who I was, so they just assumed that I was going along
06:44with something that he would be doing.
06:46Absolutely.
06:47A lot of that is what I wanted to clear up in an interview, in this interview, was to explain,
06:52he was brought up that way.
06:55You know, before even answering questions about him or talking about him, it would need to be understood fully, his
07:01life, which is completely different than anyone else's life that ever was, except for, you know, my father.
07:07Mm-hmm.
07:07For, you know, my father.
07:09Mm-hmm.
07:09He was conditioned to sort of get himself where he needed to go for his career and with his talent,
07:17and he became very good at making and creating and...
07:23Manipulating.
07:23And hearing and manipulating to some degree.
07:26Mm-hmm.
07:26It's true, but, but, see, and I always confused that manipulation, thinking that that manipulation was, that meant that he
07:34didn't love me, you know?
07:35Mm-hmm.
07:36But I understand it better now. The manipulation was because it was a survival tactic for him.
07:41So is, is it after his death that you have gained such clarity about the relationship?
07:46Yes, and I don't know why. I really don't understand that. Um, but yes, this whole last year and a
07:53half has been spent trying to gain the clarity because, at some point, I pushed it away, and I just
08:00had to move on with my life, and, and then that happened, and it, and it was like a tidal
08:05wave. Where were you when you first heard? Where were you?
08:07I was in England, um, and I don't know why, but it was the strangest day of my life. I
08:12was crying all day.
08:14Mm-hmm. For what reason?
08:15I don't know, and I don't normally do that. And I was, you know, trying to work, and came home,
08:21and I was literally cutting my food into my dinner crying. And, um, I wanted to go upstairs and go
08:27to bed and just watch something mindless on TV and stop crying.
08:31I looked at my husband. I was like, I don't know what is wrong with me. I just can't stop.
08:35And, um, and then an hour later, the knock came, and I, I heard.
08:39You heard? Who told you?
08:41Um, it was a friend of mine who just, and actually, I got, started getting texts. Are you okay? Are
08:47you okay? I said, what's happening? Um, actually, John Travolta was one of the first texts I got. Are you
08:52all right?
08:53Mm-hmm.
08:53I said, what's happening? Is this actually happening? It was still unclear, you know?
08:57Mm-hmm. And, and your reaction, your first reaction?
09:02Sh- real honest to goodness shock, not even tears, just, you know, I was floored, honestly floored.
09:12Coming up.
09:13During the time that you were married to him, did you suspect a drug problem?
09:28June 25th, 2009.
09:30Apparently, Michael Jackson suffered cardiac arrest this afternoon. He was rushed to UCLA Medical Center.
09:38People around the world were glued to their televisions as events unfolded in Los Angeles. By late afternoon, it was
09:45clear.
09:46Michael Jackson, the legendary pop star known by millions of fans around the world, has died.
09:52A little over one year later, I've come to England to talk to Lisa Marie Presley about their relationship and
09:59his death.
10:02The next day, after Michael's death, you posted very emotional thoughts on your blog. What made you do that?
10:10I think I was just rocking a baby to sleep and I was just in floods of tears and I
10:15thought, I don't know, I had a moment of clarity and I realized all this bitterness I thought I had
10:22and, you know, indifference and it was no longer, it all just came.
10:29I don't even, it's been so crazy, Oprah, that I don't even know how to explain how all of it's
10:33happened, which is why I waited over a year to talk about it.
10:38Because so many, there were so many phases of this.
10:40So let me help you through it here.
10:41Yes, please.
10:42Let me read an excerpt of what you wrote the day after Michael died.
10:45You said, the person I failed to help is being transferred right now to the L.A. County Coroner's Office
10:52for his autopsy.
10:54All my indifference and detachment that I worked so hard to achieve over the years has just gone into the
11:03bowels of hell and right now I am gutted.
11:10Gutted.
11:11Gutted.
11:12I thought that was an interesting choice of words.
11:14That means gutted, empty, dug out.
11:18Really?
11:19Mm-hmm.
11:19So, did you feel that you had failed to help him?
11:25Yes.
11:26Okay.
11:27So in May of 1994, when you were married to him, or during the time that you were married to
11:32him, did you suspect a drug problem?
11:34Honestly, I didn't really suspect and catch on until just before I filed for divorce.
11:43You know, there was just an occasion, an incident where he had collapsed.
11:47Mm-hmm.
11:47And he was in the hospital.
11:49This was during the HBO.
11:50Mm-hmm.
11:50Mm-hmm.
11:51This was an appearance he was supposed to make.
11:54Yeah, an appearance for HBO, yeah.
11:55In December 1995, Michael Jackson collapsed on stage while rehearsing for an HBO concert special in New York.
12:02His doctor said Michael was suffering from a viral infection.
12:06Lisa Marie flew to his side in the hospital, where he stayed for six days.
12:12Everybody flew to the hospital, and it was very confusing what was wrong, because every day there was a different
12:21report, and I couldn't tell what was happening.
12:25Dehydration, low blood pressure, exhaustion, a virus.
12:29So I couldn't really get a straight answer as to what was happening with him, and I think we were
12:33all a little bit in the dark.
12:34And at that point, I think I really, I got from various indications, I believed that that was going on
12:42then.
12:43Mm-hmm.
12:43You thought that there was some drug use?
12:45Yes.
12:45Yeah.
12:46And, you know, there were times when I would pick him up from a certain doctor's office, and he would
12:52not be coherent.
12:54Mm-hmm.
12:54And there was some behavior now looking back at it.
12:57And I knew that that was, you know, because of injections, because they were painful, and he would need certain
13:01things because he needed to.
13:03So that...
13:03He would need things for what?
13:05Injections, or whatever various dermatological, you know...
13:10Is this for his skin disease?
13:11Mm-hmm.
13:12Various things he needed.
13:15Was it the kind of marriage where a lot of things went unsaid or unspoken, or did you feel a
13:22sense of intimacy and connection that you could ask him anything?
13:27I am...
13:28I honestly can tell you that it was an... it was every sense of normal marriage, and everything was spoken,
13:35and, you know, in the middle of the night, if he needed to wake up and tell me, and...
13:40And bounce something off me, and wake me up and want to, you know, talk, or if there was trouble,
13:47or...
13:48I mean, it was great.
13:48Was he having trouble sleeping then?
13:50Yes.
13:51He was like a little gnome.
13:52I used to tell him he was like a gnome running around the room, because it was hard for me
13:55to sleep.
13:56A lot of times I couldn't sleep either if he wasn't sleeping, so he would be...
14:00I'd just hear him piddling, and, you know, it was a bit endearing, but then...
14:05And I didn't mind it, but he did have a hard time sleeping, yes.
14:09Did you feel like you were, in many ways, a nurturer, caretaker for him?
14:15Very much.
14:16And I really loved that role, and I loved taking care of him.
14:21It was my... it was the highest point of my life, one of the very highest points of my life,
14:26was when things were going really well, and he and I were united together.
14:31And he and I had an understanding about some of the people, the things that could go on around him.
14:36Mm-hmm.
14:36Um, and he was with me on those things, and we were... we were a unit.
14:41And I could take care of him, and in spite of what some people speculated while I was with him,
14:46that I wanted a career, or that I was trying to do something, it was absolute BS.
14:51I've never been comfortable being front and center, honestly.
14:55Don't like attention on me.
14:57Loved being next to him, and taking care of him.
15:00I was on such a high doing that, that I don't, you know, that it was... it was a very
15:06profound time in my life.
15:08Mm-hmm.
15:08So I... it wasn't anything... it was real as far as that goes.
15:12I heard you said to the producers that being with him was some of the highest highs for you.
15:18Mm-hmm.
15:18As you just described, and also the lowest lows.
15:21Yes.
15:21What was the lowest low?
15:24The lowest was... you know, again, when I talk about him, I don't...
15:29I now, in retrospect, want to make very clear that I understand him now more than I ever did.
15:36Mm-hmm.
15:36So when I speak about him, I can speak about him with understanding, and it's all... it's all good now.
15:44For some reason, I don't know what happens when someone passes away, and it... this is what's become of it.
15:49But I've come to have all this love again, and understanding for him.
15:54Mm-hmm.
15:55And I don't know why it had to take all that to have this happen.
15:58Mm-hmm.
15:58That upsets me a bit, but...
16:00The low...
16:00Because were you angry with him before?
16:02I was angry.
16:03You were angry with him when you left the marriage?
16:04I was very angry.
16:06Mm-hmm.
16:06I was so angry, because I felt that we had such... we were so united.
16:12And then, at some point, he... he pushed me out.
16:15Why did the marriage end?
16:18Um, there was a very profound point in the marriage when he had to make a decision.
16:23Was it the drugs and the... and the sort of vampires, or me?
16:28And he pushed me away.
16:29Vampires?
16:30Meaning, people that are sort of... spiders, vampires, um...
16:34Sycovants sucking his blood.
16:35Sycovants, mm-hmm.
16:36Mm-hmm.
16:36Yeah.
16:37So you saw that all around him?
16:39Oh, God, yes.
16:40Yes.
16:41And it was...
16:41Many people talk about that in stories written about him.
16:44He seemed to be drawn to people who would take advantage of him.
16:48What was that?
16:49The one thing that correlates with... with Michael and with my father on this subject,
16:54is that they had the luxury of creating whatever reality around them they wanted to create.
16:59They could have the kinds of people who were gonna go with their program or not go with their program.
17:04And if they weren't, then they could be disposed of.
17:06Mm-hmm.
17:07It's the reality of being a god in your own world.
17:10Right.
17:10Yeah.
17:11And this is something that I've ex... had...
17:14Experience with your father?
17:16Way too much experience with.
17:17Mm-hmm.
17:17On both sides, where I've seen what can go on, and that... and that is, um...
17:23Um...
17:23My way or the highway.
17:25Right.
17:25Michael wasn't a bad person because that's how he functioned.
17:28He didn't know any better.
17:29It wasn't that, you know...
17:30I took it very personally, though.
17:32I... I felt I was disposable.
17:35You know?
17:36And it was the same with my father.
17:38Sometimes I sit and I think, there have been times when I've been angry at the people around him.
17:42Why didn't you stop him?
17:43Why didn't you say something?
17:44Well, because if you did, you were out.
17:46Mm-hmm.
17:46It's very simple.
17:47Mm-hmm.
17:48And he didn't mean anything either.
17:49So he wasn't the kind of person...
17:50He wasn't, nor your father was, the kind of person who wanted people around him telling them the truth.
17:56He wanted to be told what he wanted to hear.
17:58When it's this unusual reality and an ivory tower and this godlike life mixed with an addiction,
18:05that's when you get into trouble.
18:07Mm-hmm.
18:07A lot of trouble.
18:09August 16th, 1977.
18:11Nine-year-old Lisa Marie was home at Graceland when her father, Elvis, suddenly collapsed in his bathroom and died.
18:18There was a lethal mix of 14 prescription drugs in his system.
18:23Are you struck between the parallel in your father's life and Michael Jackson's life?
18:29Your father and your former husband.
18:31Yes.
18:32It, um...
18:33It really blows me away, to be honest with you.
18:36I still try to figure out why...
18:39What is it that I had to go through twice?
18:41Mm-hmm.
18:41Where these two incredible people...
18:44And I speak, you know, with the utmost respect and love, because I had that for both.
18:49Your father and Michael.
18:51Yes.
18:52Who had the same fate.
18:53Um, what is it about me?
18:55Why did I have to just...
18:56I went through it once.
18:57That was painful.
18:59And I went through it again.
19:00And I don't quite understand it.
19:02You know?
19:05Coming up, you think there was a big part of you that didn't want to see the truth?
19:10The truth in what way?
19:12The truth about the drugs.
19:24When we were hiking this summer, Lisa shared something with me that I think you all will find, uh, interesting.
19:30This is a home in Los Angeles where Michael Jackson died.
19:35Across the street, just a stone's throw away, was Elvis Presley's California home, where Lisa Marie spent a lot of
19:43time growing up.
19:44What about the irony of that?
19:48Just across the street.
19:50It's...
19:50My mother, when I came home after being in England for so long, she...
19:54I wanted to drive by and see where it was.
19:56And I lived there.
19:57Up until after he died, she sold it.
19:59So, and I had several birthdays there.
20:00And, um, I said...
20:03She said, it's right across the street.
20:05I said, oh, please.
20:06It's not right across the street.
20:08You're being, you know, whatever.
20:10Shoot her off.
20:11And I drove.
20:12And it literally, I was completely...
20:15You know, I don't even know how to describe that.
20:18How that felt.
20:20No.
20:20Because I...
20:21And I don't even know if he knew.
20:23That was just another thing where...
20:25These things keep happening.
20:26And I still...
20:27In the universe.
20:28And I'm...
20:29Okay.
20:29Then what is it that I...
20:30I'm trying to learn here.
20:32What is it that I'm...
20:33I need to know?
20:34I thought it was interesting when you wrote the blog the day after Michael Jackson's death.
20:38You titled the blog, He Knew.
20:42What did he know?
20:44When I was watching the footage of the ambulance backing out of the driveway.
20:50And I went back to this conversation that I had with him at Neverland in the library.
20:54We were sitting by the fire.
20:56And, um, he was telling me that he was afraid that he was going to end up like my father.
21:03You know, he was always asking me about when he died and how it happened and when it happened
21:08and where.
21:09And, um...
21:10Michael was always asking you about your father.
21:13Yes.
21:13Mm-hmm.
21:14And he said, I feel like I'm going to end up the same way.
21:18And did you say why?
21:19Yeah.
21:20I was like, what are you talking about?
21:22And I...
21:22I don't understand.
21:23Down to the play by play by play incident was identical.
21:28First of all, you were much younger then.
21:33But as you look back at your marriage to him and who you were in that marriage, do you
21:40think there was a big part of you that didn't want to see the truth?
21:48The truth in what way?
21:50The truth about the drugs.
21:52I was so naive then.
21:54But I know it's not easy to believe that now, but...
21:57Well, it is easy to believe we can understand the state of mind you were in.
22:02Um, so first of all, you growing up as Elvis Presley's daughter, uh, and being in your own
22:11right who you are, you wouldn't be excited about being married to Michael Jackson.
22:17It's not like some fan who ended up married to Michael Jackson.
22:21So, because you're used to the fame life.
22:23So you fell in love with him because of?
22:28For him.
22:29Because he was an incredible, incredibly dynamic person.
22:33If you were in his vicinity and he wanted to give, and he gave, and he showed you who
22:39he was if he was willing to do that in any way.
22:42Yeah.
22:42Man, I have never felt so high in my life.
22:45Yeah.
22:45I have never felt so high in my life as that.
22:48And I am not lying when I say that.
22:51He had something so intoxicating about him.
22:54And when he was on and when he was ready to share with you or give it to you and
22:58be himself
23:00and allow you to come in, I don't know if I've ever been that intoxicated by anything.
23:06I can, I can, I can hear what you're saying.
23:08Because when I first interviewed, first met him before the interview in 1992, uh, it's
23:14like he shines his light upon you.
23:16He, like, when he opens that, opens himself up and lets that light through, you just want
23:22to be in that.
23:23Yes.
23:24You want to be in that.
23:24You want to be around that.
23:26And, you know, we were all at Neverland and eating the candy and having a great time.
23:31And I left thinking, gosh, I wish I could be his friend.
23:34Yeah.
23:35It was like a drug.
23:36He was like a drug for me.
23:37I felt like I just always wanted to be around him.
23:39I always wanted to be part of, I just, I felt so high.
23:42I've never felt like that around another human being except for one.
23:44Mm-hmm.
23:45You know, which is my father.
23:46It's so interesting because you just said it.
23:50You were nine years old when your father died.
23:53Never felt that feeling before.
23:55So, in many ways, being with Michael brought back that feeling of that light falling on
24:01you.
24:01That being, you know, all of that energy coming your way.
24:06Yes.
24:06Did you feel loved by Michael in the beginning?
24:08Very much so.
24:09Mm-hmm.
24:10I don't think I realized it at the time how much, what that meant.
24:13Because I know that that was very unusual for him.
24:15I know he'd had a few dates in his life.
24:17Mm-hmm.
24:17But there was nothing profound for him in that, in that area.
24:22And, and he, he, he fell in love with me.
24:24And I, and I fell in love with him.
24:26And it was very real.
24:27How did he ask you to marry him?
24:29Um, we were in the library in front of the fire.
24:32And he, he pulled this giant 10-carat diamond out of his pocket and, um, put it on my finger.
24:38And I think he got on his knees as, as well, and proposed.
24:41And at the time he proposed, did you think that would, it would be forever?
24:44I did.
24:46I don't, you know, I did.
24:47And when I was younger, I can honestly say that, um, you can think like that and, and believe that.
24:54Mm-hmm.
24:55You know, from the outside, it just seems so, that, you know, two extraordinarily famous people together, everywhere you went,
25:05seemed somewhat like a circus.
25:07It was.
25:08It's true.
25:08But, you know, that didn't happen that often.
25:11We were together a lot and there was no cameras.
25:14And, uh, I think a lot of that was because the, the, the promo for history started to come and
25:19then we had to appear here and do this and do that.
25:21And that was all very manipulated, which, which I understand comes across as very manipulated, period.
25:27Did you ever feel manipulated in the relationship?
25:30Sometimes.
25:30But he knew I didn't love that.
25:32And he was okay.
25:32He got it.
25:33I mean, he, he would, he needed, he needed to do his thing.
25:35I would be there uncomfortably like the MTV thing and his hand was blue after we got off that stage.
25:43I know he showed me and it was, you know, completely blue.
25:47I squeezed it so hard.
25:49I did not want to do that.
25:51You know, it was just, it's not in my nature to do that sort of thing.
25:53So, but I understood it as his wife.
25:57I had, you know, I needed to do some things like that.
26:01Coming up.
26:02You divorced.
26:05And several months later, it was announced that Debbie Rowe was pregnant.
26:09How did you feel about that?
26:17I'm still all alone.
26:21Lisa Marie and Michael Jackson had been married for a year when he released the intimate music
26:26video for You Are Not Alone.
26:31So, was there a lot of pressure for you to have a baby?
26:33Yes.
26:34Um, there was quite a bit.
26:35I mean, he was...
26:36From the time you got married?
26:37Mm-hmm.
26:37There was, and I did want to.
26:39I just kept, I just wanted to make sure, I was, I was looking into the future and I
26:43was thinking, I don't ever want to get into a custody battle with him.
26:47I don't want to do this.
26:49I don't want to go head to head with him.
26:50So, I need to make sure that everything around is good.
26:52I know I've had, I had children.
26:54I knew bringing children into certain circumstances, you have to make sure everything's safe and
26:58secured and okay.
26:59Mm-hmm.
27:00And I wanted to make sure that he and I were really, really united because we were going
27:04to be up against so much.
27:05I can't remember the exact month you all divorced, but you divorced and several months later, I know
27:15by October, it was announced that Debbie Rowe was pregnant.
27:19Mm-hmm.
27:20How did you feel about that?
27:22Well, I knew it was a bit of a retaliatory act on his part.
27:27Mm-hmm.
27:27Because, um, I didn't, you know, have, have a baby.
27:34And, um, and I know that she was there the whole time telling him she would do it.
27:39So...
27:40You knew that?
27:40He would tell me.
27:41He would come tell me.
27:42If you're not going to do it, Debbie said she'll do it.
27:44And I was like, what is that?
27:46Hi.
27:47Uh, not going to entice me.
27:51Um, so we would get into it, you know, arguments because that really wasn't how to handle it.
27:56But that's how he knew how to handle it.
27:57I don't want to say, you know, he, he, like I said, he would be like, well, if you're not
28:01going to, this person will.
28:02Are you going to do it or not?
28:03And...
28:04That's what you mean by disposable.
28:05Yes.
28:06Mm-hmm.
28:06And that's exactly what I mean.
28:08Oh, I get it.
28:09Yeah.
28:09Well, there are not many men who would say, you either have a baby for me or I got somebody
28:13standing in the wings.
28:14Right.
28:14And it's, it sounds, you know, hindsight, 20, 20.
28:17I understand him so well now.
28:19Um, but at that time, I didn't.
28:22I was hurt.
28:23I was hurt.
28:23And, you know, I did things that hurt him, you know, and I did stupid things too.
28:30And like...
28:30Like, I was very torn because I broke up my family and I left my husband for Michael.
28:38And I was having a hard time trying to process that.
28:43Lisa Marie was 20 years old when she married her first husband, musician Danny Keough.
28:49Together, they had two children, Riley and Ben.
28:52After more than five years together, Lisa Marie divorced Danny.
28:5620 days later, she was married again to Michael Jackson.
29:01While I was with Michael, I was still trying to process what I had done.
29:05I never could feel good about it.
29:07I felt like, how could I have done that to somebody?
29:09And I had these two little ones.
29:10And, uh, Danny was still very much part of my life.
29:13Michael didn't quite know what to do with that sometimes.
29:16And that made him uncomfortable.
29:18And I understood that.
29:19Michael would wonder, why are you in Hawaii with Danny?
29:22We would take a vacation and Danny would go.
29:25And Michael would get upset.
29:27And where are you?
29:27And then he would disappear for a couple weeks and I couldn't find him.
29:30Or, you know, things would make him uncomfortable.
29:32And when I would do things that would make Michael uncomfortable,
29:36if he got uncomfortable or felt vulnerable, he would ice you out as a mechanism.
29:43He'd push you away and ice you.
29:45It was like a shark sometimes in that way.
29:47You could just, that's it.
29:48You know, you've done him wrong or whatever, so you were out.
29:51And I did some, we had moments like that.
29:54But I have to say in retrospect that he honestly tried so hard and went through so much with me.
30:02And I know now, and I look back at it, he's never done that with any other female or anyone
30:07as much as we went through.
30:08And when we hit rough waters, and we would, and we would argue for three-day arguments, sometimes taking a
30:14break to eat and sleep.
30:15Wow.
30:15You know, I'd have to say that I really admire that he really gave it a good shot, you know?
30:23I didn't appreciate it then, and I wish I did.
30:27Coming up, Lisa tells me about the last time she spoke to Michael Jackson.
30:41Did he have to die for you to recognize that he loved you?
30:47Um, I think, I think so, sadly.
30:52Is that the first time you recognized or believed that he truly loved you, after he died?
30:59Um, I think, yes. Sweeping answer would be yes.
31:05When we were together, we were really in love, and then we had the rough patches, and then I had
31:11to make a decision to walk,
31:12because I saw that the drugs and the doctors were coming in, and they scared me and put me right
31:17back into what I went through with my father, so I, that ended it.
31:22And then we, again, were going to get back together for, we still spent four more years after we divorced.
31:29Really?
31:30Getting back together and breaking up, and talking about getting back together and breaking up, and, and at some point,
31:36I had to push it away,
31:37because it was just not, it just, I wasn't moving forward with myself.
31:42So you still loved him, even when you left him?
31:45Very much.
31:46I left him to put my, to sort of, stomp my foot into the ground, and go, I, I was
31:53trying to take a stand and say, come with me, don't do this.
31:57Mm-hmm.
31:57And I was a stupid move, because he didn't, and he was just, you know, he's a stubborn, I'm stubborn,
32:03he's stubborn.
32:04The two of us, it was like, you know.
32:06Don't make a dare you're not willing to follow through on.
32:09Right.
32:09So I, I made a stupid move.
32:11And, and I, actually, afterwards, you know, he and I were still, you know, I, I, I was flying all
32:19over the world still with him for years to follow.
32:22When was the last time you spoke to him?
32:25Uh, coherently good conversation was in 2005.
32:30Mm-hmm.
32:30Um, it was a very long conversation.
32:32And I was so removed from him, and he could feel it, and he could hear it.
32:36And I think that's one of the things that killed me in the end, too, was that I was very,
32:39um, distanced, and he was checking to get a read.
32:43You know, he was trying to throw a line out to see if I would bite emotionally, and I wouldn't.
32:48I was pretty shut off at that point.
32:50And I don't even know how I managed to be like that, but I was.
32:53And he was asking me, he wanted to tell me that he, uh, that I was right about a lot
32:58of the people around him, and that it had panned out to be exactly what he and I had talked
33:03about years ago.
33:05And he asked if I still loved him.
33:07And we went into a whole thing about that, and I told him I was indifferent, and he didn't like
33:11that word.
33:12And he cried, and he was just trying to find out where I was at and how I could become
33:17so detached.
33:18And then the final part of the conversation was him, uh, telling me that he felt that, um, that someone
33:26was gonna try and kill him to get a hold of his catalog and his, his estate.
33:32And I really didn't know what to do with that.
33:35So he actually gave you names?
33:36He did, and I would like not to say them, but he, he expressed to me, uh, his concern over
33:43his, uh, his life.
33:47Coming up.
33:48As you stood over his casket, were you able to make peace?
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34:18You know, I asked you this, the, and I have to ask it again, uh, even though it's an uncomfortable
34:23subject, but when you were on the show the first time, I think I asked you this.
34:28Whether you had ever seen any inappropriate behavior between Michael Jackson and young children.
34:36Mm-hmm.
34:37Are you asking me again?
34:38I'm asking you again.
34:40The answer is absolutely, uh, not in any way.
34:44Mm-hmm.
34:44I did not see anything like that.
34:46So by 2005, I think when he was on trial for the second charge.
34:51Right.
34:51Your feelings at that time were what?
34:54Did he ever talk to you about it?
34:56He was calling me about it and I said, please keep your head together, please.
35:01If this goes to trial, please hold it together.
35:04And he said, what are you talking about?
35:05What do you mean?
35:06And I said, he said, you mean drugs?
35:07I said, yes.
35:08Because all I saw, you know, there was a few year period there where he was, random things
35:12were coming out, whether it was a Martin Bashir interview or various interviews.
35:16And in those interviews, I saw him intoxicated.
35:20I didn't see Michael that I knew in that Martin Bashir interview.
35:23He was high as a kite from what I saw and from what I knew.
35:27Really?
35:27He was either too speedy or he was sedated.
35:30It wasn't the Michael that I knew.
35:32The shocking things, he said some pretty shocking things in that Martin Bashir interview, particularly
35:38about how he felt it was okay to sleep with young children.
35:42I think he said that stuff sometimes to be defiant because he got so angry at having been accused.
35:49I think that sometimes he was such a little stubborn rebel sometimes and he was like a child and
35:54he would just say what he felt everyone didn't want him to say.
35:57Mm-hmm.
35:58I don't feel like he had a straight head during those things.
36:02And I think that they were edited in a very, very manipulative, nasty way.
36:09So you never saw anything and to this day you don't believe that any of those charges were true?
36:16No.
36:16I mean, I honestly cannot say, the only people that are ever going to be able to honestly say
36:22the truth are him and whoever was in the room at the time of whatever allegedly took place.
36:26I was never in that room.
36:27It would be unfair for me to, I can tell you, I never saw anything like that.
36:33Mm-hmm.
36:33Have you now made peace with his death?
36:38I know you watched the funeral that we all saw on television and I know that you went to the
36:44private funeral ceremony.
36:47What was that like, standing in the room with his casket?
36:51Mm-hmm.
36:54That was, um, really another six months of more to recover from, I think.
37:06Mm-hmm.
37:06Mm-hmm.
37:07But, you know, I was the last one standing with him.
37:10Um, and that was, you know...
37:15What do you mean last one standing?
37:16Well, most people had left and I went back in and I was alone with him, standing over him.
37:22Um, you know, I didn't want to leave him, so.
37:27As you stood over his casket, uh, I know it's, you know, it's, there's probably nothing more, um, you know,
37:35personal or private, um, than those, those moments.
37:40As you stood over that casket, were you able to make peace?
37:46Mm-hmm.
37:48No.
37:48I don't think I could make peace then.
37:50I think that I, more, I wanted to apologize, more was like, I felt like I wanted to apologize.
37:59For?
38:00Not being around, you know, do you think you could have saved him?
38:05God, that's such a hard question.
38:10Um, naively, I want to say, I know that it's naive to think that I could have, but I wanted
38:16to.
38:17Could I have?
38:18Had I made a call, had I stopped being so shut off from him, had I just said how are
38:26you, can I try to make a phone call, you know.
38:29I really did regret that I didn't do you think that family and friends let him
38:38down do you think that somebody could have done something I think that they
38:43tried and I and sadly like I said if he didn't want you run if you were gonna
38:50make him confront something you didn't want to confront he can make it go away
38:52including his own family they got on the opposite side of that I think that was a
38:57train headed in a certain direction that I don't know if anyone could have stopped
39:01and I and I've had to really get my head around that in order to stop the the
39:06pain for yourself and how is this for your current husband who seems like a
39:23really loving generous supportive man how is it for him with all this Michael stuff
39:32coming up he's so happy I'll be done with this interview he's just like I want you
39:36to just exercise this and get it out because I've been you know he's had to
39:40hear it for so long he never good for the current husband to have to hear about the
39:45ex-husband a lot no it's not it's not no and I understand that but he also
39:49understands he's the most understanding person I've ever met in my life and I'm
39:53I've never you know I thank God because he's really allowed me to go through
39:57whatever I need to go through with this which I know be highly highly unusual and
40:00it's a lot to ask for mm-hmm of him and I don't feel good about it but it's
40:05something that came came down on me that I've had to I've had to deal with and
40:09I've been doing it because all these Michael feelings were repressed and buried
40:13when you started dating Michael Lockwood exactly you said earlier that the
40:21universe God you don't understand is trying to teach you something obviously
40:26because of the parallels between your father Elvis Presley's life and Michael
40:31Jackson's life now with over a year after Michael's death and 33 years since your
40:42father passed what do you think the lesson is for you I I feel really alone in
40:50that I've gone through this with these incredible people like this and I feel
40:54really honored at the same time and with Michael's death is it for you like a lot
41:00of people still his birthday the anniversary of his death all of those are
41:07still hard days they are but it's been happening all my life August 16th I've
41:13dreaded my whole life which has been you know the death of your father right and
41:18now you know it's doing 25th so I said that you when we talked about doing this
41:23interview you said I'm gonna do it one time yes mm-hmm so this is it you're not
41:28going to talk about it anymore no I'm not I'm not going to talk about it anyone
41:31wants to know in future they can refer to the Oprah Winfrey show thank you thanks
41:37for letting me have the time really well thank you and for opening up about it not
41:41an easy thing to do thank you
41:43you
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