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How much control do Malaysian women really have over their own bodies? SIS Forum Malaysia’s recently launched its report following a national study to measure bodily autonomy in Malaysia, examining women’s ability to make decisions about their health, relationships, safety, and future. But beyond the numbers, what does the report reveal about power? About who gets to make decisions about women's bodies, and why that matters. On this episode of #ConsiderThis Melisa Idris speaks with Rozana Isa, Executive Director, SIS Forum Malaysia.
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00:00Music
00:10Hello and good evening, I'm Melissa Idris. Welcome to Consider This.
00:14This is the show where we want you to consider and then we consider what you know of the news
00:17of the day.
00:18How much control do Malaysian women really have over their own bodies?
00:23CIS Fora Malaysia recently launched its report following a national study to measure bodily autonomy in Malaysia,
00:31examining women's abilities to make decisions about their health, their relationships, their safety and their future.
00:39But beyond the numbers, what does the report reveal about power?
00:44About who gets to make decisions about women's bodies and why that matters?
00:48Well, joining me on the show to help us unpack that report, I have Rosana Issa, who is the Executive
00:54Director of CIS Fora Malaysia.
00:56Rosana, thank you so much for being on the show with me.
00:58Before we get into the findings of the report, let's start with the premise of the survey.
01:04When we talk about bodily autonomy, what does that actually mean?
01:08And for the people who think that this isn't really an issue, why should they care about it?
01:15Thank you, Melissa, for having me.
01:17I mean, in a nutshell, bodily autonomy, you know, is this ability for us to make informed and independent decisions
01:27about our own bodies,
01:29without violence, without coercion, without intimidation or discrimination.
01:33But what does that really mean?
01:36You know, so for women, it really is about the realization and acceptance that our body belongs to us and
01:43not to another person.
01:44Therefore, we make the call and decision, you know, with what to do with our body in terms of what's
01:51best for ourselves.
01:52So that means, you know, we exercise the agency and autonomy for ourselves.
01:58We make the decision for the health and well-being of our body, you know, this physical vessel that is
02:05also home to our mind,
02:07our emotions, our emotions, our mental health and well-being.
02:10And so it's not just physical, you know, it's about how we move or what we eat, the medications and
02:17supplements we take for our health.
02:19So these are daily decisions.
02:21And then how do we decide when we are in proximity or in a relationship to another person, our spouse
02:29or our partner, our family, our community, our society?
02:33As children, you know, it's the adults that make these decisions for the children.
02:40But even in making those decisions for the children, you know, it also entails empowering children over the years as
02:48they grow up to be aware of this agency that they have.
02:52So that they have also the tools and knowledge to know what is right, what is wrong, especially what to
02:58do when someone does something wrong to them.
03:01So it affects everyday decisions, really.
03:03Definitely. And when you look at what the respondents were telling you, you know, looking at all the findings altogether,
03:11Rosanna,
03:12what bigger story were the respondents telling you?
03:16What findings do you think is important to highlight to us today?
03:19Yeah, I think overall in Malaysia, we have this idea that, you know, we do have rights.
03:24But, you know, when we did the survey, what the data tells us that, you know,
03:28having rights does not necessarily mean that women are able to actually exercise them.
03:35So in this study, which is nationally distributed in terms of the survey of 1,004 women across Malaysia,
03:45both urban, rural, indigenous women, people, women with disabilities as well.
03:53And what we looked at, you know, is this also this index on the UN Sustainable Development Goal.
04:01You know, so the framework calculates bodily autonomy, you know, looking at several questions.
04:08And so what this tells us is that globally, when we put the benchmark, you know, Malaysia against the benchmark
04:19at the global level
04:20and the benchmark in East and Southeast Asia, the bodily autonomy score is really below both the global as well
04:29as the regional scores.
04:30So the global score is actually at 55%, the regional scores is actually higher at 76%, and the score in
04:39Malaysia is actually only 45%.
04:42Wow. Talk to me about where women's agency is most constrained, Rosanna.
04:48Yeah. So one of the areas of concern is actually in relation to marriage and intimate relationships.
04:58We looked at the question of whether, you know, women are able to exercise agency and choice when it comes
05:08to sexual activity with their spouse or partner.
05:11And only if 52% of the women said that they could stay known, only, you know, like another 37
05:19% said, you know, they could only do so sometimes,
05:22while 6% said they could not refuse at all, and there was like about 4% of them who
05:29said, you know, they prefer not to say.
05:31So you also wonder what that means.
05:33So this is a big question because at the end of the day, you know, it's the decisions that women
05:41make in terms of, you know,
05:44who to marry, when they marry, who makes the decisions for them, and it's interesting when we go into the
05:52findings of it, you know,
05:54it does, you know, uncover the fact that, you know, where, you know, women's location in terms of their power
06:02dynamics,
06:03you know, whether they are, how they are educated, to what extent they're financially independent, you know,
06:10these also have some kind of bearings in terms of the results that come out on some of these questions.
06:16You know, one of the things you said earlier about women's rights, so it was interesting to learn about that
06:23in the report,
06:25that women don't necessarily lack rights on paper, but they often don't know what rights they have.
06:32So if women don't know their rights, then can we really say those rights exist?
06:37Talk to me a bit about that.
06:38Why does this knowledge gap persist, and what is driving, what does it mean when women don't know to exercise
06:46the rights that they have?
06:47Yeah. You know, in a nutshell, you know, do women actually have access to accurate information?
06:57And we come to the basics of family and education.
07:00Who has this conversation with the girls and women in the family and at school?
07:05You know, what do we tell them?
07:07What are they picking up on social media or other resources?
07:10How are they making comparisons and judgments?
07:13Are they able to then speak openly with doctors or clinicians?
07:17Or who are the authoritative figures that they trust in giving them the right information?
07:22So, for example, one of the questions that was raised was the issue of therapeutic abortion.
07:31And only 45% of the women knew that actually therapeutic abortion in Malaysia is legal under certain circumstances.
07:40And only 34% of them knew how to find the information about abortion services.
07:47Now, you talked about this whole thing about having rights, but not being able to exercise it.
07:55So, you know, a woman may know she can seek help, but if she doesn't have, you know, key resources,
08:01such as, you know, money, access to transport, you know, just childcare and family support, you know,
08:08then, you know, she will also feel that, you know, she is not able to go out and get this
08:12information
08:13because, you know, she's not getting the periphery support that is needed for her to go out
08:19and get, you know, that information or treatment or rights.
08:23So, the other issue is also, of course, societal expectations.
08:29So, she may also fear being judged or dismissed by either, you know, officials or healthcare providers
08:36or just even by anybody, you know, she's asking information from.
08:41So, women, you know, essentially need to be given, you know, this recognition that they have a right to ask.
08:53If they don't know, they have a right to ask and that they shouldn't be judged if they are asking
08:58about those rights
08:58and how to exercise those rights.
09:01So, I think that's where some of the gaps are because, you know, when women do go up, you know,
09:07to ask, you know, whether they can get access to certain kind of treatment or medication,
09:13the first question perhaps will come up is, you know, are you married?
09:16Right. You know, so their marital status should actually not be an issue if they want something
09:22that they want agency and exercise for themselves for what is right for them.
09:29Rosanna, some viewers tonight may be hearing, you know, our conversation, hearing these findings
09:34and then saying to themselves, well, bodily autonomy is a personal choice.
09:38You know, how women will choose how they want to dress,
09:41how they want to conduct their relationships and marriages in their body.
09:44And I want to be very careful not to frame this conversation as only about women's behaviour
09:50and women's choices.
09:52So, maybe we can, you can delve a little further into the systems that shape our choices.
09:59The laws, the education, the workplaces, the religious and the cultural expectations.
10:04What counts as free choice in bodily autonomy as a woman in Malaysia?
10:09So, for a decision to be free, a woman must have accurate information, genuine alternatives
10:17and the practical ability to choose without fear, violence, manipulation or punishment
10:24as well as access to being able to bear the financial costs as well.
10:30So, I think some of these are the constraints that we feel, you know, if we were to ask for
10:37some of this,
10:38we may be judged or we believe that, you know, our tradition or our cultural practices
10:44or our religion would not support this because we have learned or we have heard another narrative elsewhere.
10:50So, for example, if a woman wants to have access to contraception or safe abortion or quality healthcare
10:58but she doesn't, you know, feel that she's able to even ask for it,
11:03even though she may have the financial resources,
11:07then this is already a hindrance for her to be able to exercise her rights and her choices.
11:15Yeah. So, then already her choices is limited and she has to already compromise on those choices.
11:23Okay. So, where do we go from here, Rosanna?
11:25If we want to, hopefully, this is a survey that will be repeated in time
11:30so we can see progress being made, what would that look like?
11:34What would meaningful progress look like?
11:36And what would you like to see personally change the most in perhaps the next iteration of this survey?
11:41I think the best way forward is really to provide women with the information
11:49without any kind of, what do you call this, barriers
11:55because we feel that, you know, any choice she makes is not going to be good for her.
12:02I think there is already a judgment that we're making when it comes to girls and women
12:08that, you know, there's this mistrust that they will not be able to make good choices
12:13and therefore somebody else must make these decisions.
12:18So, that's why I think medically accurate information, I think, is the first thing that is quite empowering.
12:25And to teach and inform women without any kind of biasness to say that, you know,
12:34this is what you are able to know about, you know, your body
12:38and these are the factual information.
12:43And any discussions around the repercussions or consequences, you know,
12:48is something that needs to be open without any forms of judgment to the woman.
12:54But I would say medically accurate information would be the first thing that she needs to have.
13:00And I think the expectation in terms of tradition and culture, you know,
13:06that is something that we can expect.
13:08But I think the openness that we need to have in terms of the kinds of narratives
13:14that are perhaps not accurate or that they are not supportive of the women,
13:20that they should be challenged openly and that women are able to speak for themselves.
13:26So, you know, an open mind is also needed, you know,
13:33to know that, you know, women can actually take these decisions for herself
13:36regardless of her financial or educational background.
13:43Definitely.
13:43Rosanna, thank you so much for being on the show with me.
13:46Rosanna Issa from SIS Forum Malaysia.
13:48We're going to take a quick break here on Consider This.
13:50We'll be back with more. Stay tuned.
13:51We'll be back with more.
13:53We'll be back with more.
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