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A new report by Boston Consulting Group titled ‘My Impian: Uncovering the Malaysian Dream’ asks a deceptively simple question: what do Malaysians really dream of? Moving beyond traditional economic indicators, the report looks at how people define progress in their own lives. We examine what these aspirations reveal, and what they may be quietly telling us about economic pressure, well-being, and the systems Malaysians rely on. On this episode of #ConsiderThis Melisa Idris speaks with Nurlin Mohd Salleh, Managing Director, Partner & Head of Boston Consulting Group Malaysia, and Anis Mohd Nor, Partner, Boston Consulting Group.
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00:00Hello and good evening, I'm Melissa Idris. Welcome to Consider This.
00:14This is the show where we want you to consider and then we consider what you know of the news of the day.
00:19A new study by Boston Consulting Group asks a deceptively simple question.
00:24What do Malaysians really dream of?
00:26Moving beyond traditional economic indicators, the report looks at how people define progress in their own lives.
00:34And tonight on the show, we'll examine what these aspirations reveal,
00:37what it says about what Malaysians may be quietly telling us about how they see economic pressure,
00:45well-being and the systems our countrymen rely on.
00:50So today on the show, we have the good folks behind the report, My Impian, Uncovering the Malaysian Dream,
00:56Noorlin Mohamed Saleh, Managing Director, Partner and Head of Boston Consulting Group Malaysia
01:00and Anis Mohamed Noor, Partner at Boston Consulting Group.
01:05Welcome to the show. It's great of you to join me.
01:08What an interesting report and I have to say, I approached the report thinking,
01:14oh, I intuitively feel like I might know what the findings are.
01:18But I feel there's so much depth in it that we might need to uncover today.
01:22So if I may begin with you, Anis, let's talk a little bit about what the reasons for the survey,
01:30because, you know, I thought I knew what it was, but what was it that you were trying to discover by putting this survey together?
01:39Well, thanks so much for having us on the show, Melissa.
01:41I think when we approached this report, what we were seeing in the national level conversations
01:46is when we talk about development and progress in Malaysia,
01:50a lot of the conversations really focus on macroeconomic indicators, right?
01:53So what's happening with GDP? What's happening with income?
01:57Where are we tracking in terms of rankings, be it national or international?
02:01However, what's probably lacking in the conversation is a real understanding of like,
02:07what is it that actually Malaysians want and what do they dream about, right?
02:10And are they moving any closer to these dreams and ambitions?
02:13So that led us to wanting to unpack this topic a bit further
02:17and the birth of the My Impiad Uncovering the Malaysian Dreams.
02:22We approached it by, you know, trying to shift the conversation beyond macro indicators
02:27to really about people, about Malaysians.
02:30And we asked them three simple questions.
02:32One, what is your dream, right? What is it that you dream about?
02:35Second, how close are you to achieving these dreams?
02:39And thirdly, I think it's very important when we talk about aspirations and dreams,
02:42it's about trade-offs, right?
02:43Because not everything that we want, we might necessarily get.
02:47So really understanding from the respondents,
02:49what are the trade-offs that you're making now
02:51or you're thinking about in the future to achieve these dreams?
02:54And the intent is really to kind of get this really people-centered answers
02:58to help guide, you know, insights and decision-making,
03:01be it with policymakers, employers, right?
03:05To really put a voice around what individuals want
03:08versus just looking at the macro indicators.
03:11That was another question I wanted to ask you as to what the report,
03:16who the report was for.
03:18And you've just answered that saying that hopefully policymakers see beyond the numbers,
03:23the statistics and see the aspirations, the hopes of people behind,
03:29or who the policies were meant for.
03:31And I want to go to the very top dream of most of your respondents,
03:36which is financial freedom.
03:37And that's intuitive.
03:38All of us want financial freedom.
03:40But what I did notice was that the respondents defined it as being debt-free
03:46and free from constant worry, as opposed to being affluent,
03:51which is what I thought most people would have said,
03:54I want to be rich.
03:55I want to travel.
03:56I want all the trimmings of life.
03:59How do you interpret that, Noreen?
04:01Yeah, so maybe I start off with sort of following on from what Anis was saying, right?
04:07We wanted to conduct this study because we wanted to understand
04:11what Malaysians truly wanted.
04:13And I think everyone had a certain view of what they thought Malaysians wanted, right?
04:18They were like, I know, I know this is what they want.
04:21An assumption.
04:22Correct.
04:22An assumption, right?
04:23Which I was just like, is that assumption actually correct?
04:25Correct.
04:25And so that's why we then conducted this study.
04:30The second part of it was also because we have all these great plans in place.
04:34Malaysia are very good at plans.
04:36And then the question is actually, do our overall ambition and aspiration for the country
04:41match what each individual Malaysians collectively wanted?
04:46And I wasn't sure, right?
04:47And hence, that was the reason as well why we were asking ourselves these three questions
04:52that Anis had highlighted.
04:54Now, what's interesting is the top dream is financial freedom, exactly as you said.
05:00So 67% of respondents said financial freedom.
05:03What's interestingly, which maybe we touched upon a little later, is that the second top dream,
05:08which is at about 66% because we were asking people to rate their top five dreams.
05:12The second dream is actually physical and mental health, right?
05:18And so that in itself was interesting because who would have knew?
05:22Who would have known, right?
05:23Malaysians, we thought, okay, financial freedom, 100%.
05:26But wow, the other dream, which is physical and mental health is...
05:30And equally, almost equally.
05:31Almost equally on par with each other, right?
05:34Then going back to your question about physical, sorry, financial freedom,
05:40exactly as you said, we were like, okay, maybe the top dream,
05:42I think in the past people expected the top dream was about,
05:45I want to own my own house.
05:46I want to own my own car, which in some ways you could say
05:50could be considered something a bit more affluent in nature.
05:53But actually, the financial freedom, what it meant is they want to be debt-free.
05:58They want to not worry about having to pay for basic necessities.
06:01They want to ensure they have saved enough for retirement.
06:04They want to ensure they can spend easily without having the burden and stress
06:09of really thinking through what the challenges are.
06:12The other aspects which we ask them, things associated with buying luxury items,
06:16taking risks, going on vacation and holiday, really lower along the list as well.
06:22Yeah, even amongst, I would say, the affluent groups as well.
06:24But isn't that a bit worrying?
06:26Because for me, dreams are meant to be aspirational, right?
06:30Like, I looked at the finding and I was a bit sad for all of us in general,
06:36because now dreams are no longer about getting ahead,
06:39but rather just staying afloat.
06:41And that's a bit heartbreaking for me.
06:43Correct.
06:43And I think it's also an indicator of the times that we've been through, right?
06:49We've been through COVID, which had involved people having to dip into their retirement
06:53and savings to be able to remain afloat.
06:56There's more of an awareness of the fact that I need to be a little bit more conscious
07:01and worried about, you know, the next emergency, the next financial crisis,
07:05the next situation that's going to get me in a challenging position.
07:09And therefore, actually, my dream is I want to make sure I can stay afloat comfortably
07:13in the coming years.
07:15I really do think the past few years have been such a shock to the system
07:20that we've really recalibrated what our dreams are.
07:24Absolutely.
07:25The other segment, I would say, of the report that really broke my heart a bit
07:31was gig workers.
07:32So this is also a new development in our country.
07:36Gig workers only around for the past five, six years now.
07:40Now, your report found that gig workers feel the furthest from achieving their dreams.
07:48And how do we make sense of that, that they feel so far from where they would like to be?
07:57So if you think about gig workers and how the gig workforce came about,
08:03it really came about during that period of COVID, right?
08:06Because people were losing their jobs and so they wanted opportunities
08:11that gave them a bit more flexibility, right?
08:14And therefore, more gig workers came about.
08:17The positive part about working in the gig economy is that flexibility
08:22and being able to work in different areas and to really shift around as much as possible, right?
08:28Which is fantastic and actually hits on that second dream, probably,
08:30of being able to be a bit more physical and mental well-being that you get.
08:34But on the flip side is it doesn't give you financial security, right?
08:40Because it's a bit more of an inconsistent model of working,
08:46therefore, potentially inconsistent pay, inconsistent compensation,
08:51which then leads you to the volatility of that life, right?
08:57And if you go back then to the first dream of I want financial freedom to be debt-free,
09:03to have sufficient savings, so on and so forth, it doesn't hit those dreams.
09:07And so if you ask them the second question that Anis talks about,
09:10not just what is your dream, but how far are you from achieving that dream?
09:15Interestingly, when you break down the demographics,
09:17the gig workforce felt the furthest away from achieving that dream.
09:21So that's where, as you said, your heart breaks because you're like,
09:24oh gosh, there's a larger population of Malaysians that have decided to go into the gig workforce
09:28because of circumstances, of context, and so on and so forth,
09:32and a way of life to which they wanted.
09:34However, now they're realising that, hey, it's allowing me to provide that flexibility to myself,
09:40but I'm not achieving that top dream which I have.
09:42I think that second question is so important, isn't it?
09:45How far away are you from the dream?
09:47Because it also speaks to how hopeful you are of the trajectory of the country,
09:53of the trajectory of your life.
09:55Anis, how do you see policymakers or interventions that might help narrow this dream gap for gig workers?
10:02So I think the point you brought up, Melissa, just now is really important.
10:05Gig workers is a fairly new development in our country, but actually it's really sizable.
10:10So I think data as of last year said there's 1.2 million gig workers in Malaysia currently,
10:17and this is formal data, right?
10:19There's a lot of people in the gig economy, which is a bit more informal,
10:22so probably the number is even bigger than that.
10:25What's also interesting is I think, as Nurlin mentioned,
10:28it sort of started during COVID and all that,
10:30and people saw this as sort of a temporary kind of way of work where I can go in and out.
10:36It's flexible, etc.
10:37But what you're actually seeing is some people are actually choosing this as, in a way, a career, right?
10:42I want to be part of the gig economy, so it's not going to go away and it's actually going to be sizable.
10:46So it is a segment that we need to focus on.
10:49Now in terms of policymakers, there's been a lot of good progress.
10:53So last year, the Gig Workers Bill 2025 represented actually a really positive trajectory
10:59in terms of how we support this segment, right?
11:01So the bill talked about actually recognising gig workers as a distinct kind of worker group, right?
11:08So recognising that, yes, it doesn't look like traditional employment,
11:11but this is a type of employment that is going to be recognised in our country.
11:16Second, there was also talk about including social protections for gig workers,
11:22which traditionally they didn't have access to, right?
11:24So this would be stuff like social protection.
11:26So now in case they have, you know, injuries while they're doing their gig work or disabilities, etc.,
11:31they now have access to the type of social protections that traditional workers would have access to.
11:37Last but not least, also there was this introduction of dispute resolution.
11:40As you can imagine, you know, informal economy, lots of different platforms, lots of different issues.
11:46And before this, there was a little bit of a lack of like, where do gig workers kind of bring their issues for resolution?
11:52So this gig worker tribunal was introduced.
11:55And I think that's the kind of the positive steps that we're making to try to support gig workers
12:00so they get closer to their dreams.
12:02I think in terms of policymakers, what's going to be really important going forward is implementation, right?
12:07Typically, one is compliance, right?
12:10So whether platform providers themselves are going to be complying to all these new guidance from the government,
12:16so making sure that we're enforcing it.
12:18Second, the specificity, right, of the coverage, like who's included, who's not included,
12:23what type of benefits, etc., is going to be really important.
12:26And last but not least, I think access as well.
12:29So in early, later, we'll talk a little bit about geographical coverage.
12:32We know that a lot of big gig platforms are mainly in the urban areas, right?
12:37So I won't name them, but, you know, I'm sure.
12:39We all know that.
12:39Yeah, there's a few that come to mind.
12:42But there are also people in the gig economy that might not be on these big platforms in more rural areas, right?
12:47So how do we make sure that it's not just about the big rural areas and people on the big platforms,
12:52but the other type of gig economy workers are also covered?
12:55So I think these are the three things that we need to continue doubling down on
12:59to make sure that the gig workers are getting closer to achieving their dreams.
13:04And we really can't ignore it.
13:05It's a huge segment of society.
13:07And clearly from your research, your report, that they really need to feel supported in some way
13:15so that they feel that they can achieve some of their dreams.
13:18I want to come to that 66% of physically and mentally well, the second most selected dream.
13:28What I thought was particularly interesting was why people felt how far they felt from that dream.
13:35The second question, back to that again.
13:37And the biggest barriers to wellness that your respondents highlighted was stress and time related.
13:43It's not so much medical.
13:45It's the lifestyle.
13:46So what does that reflect about the way we are living in this kind of post-COVID world?
13:54Yeah.
13:54And so again, I think in Malaysia, if you think about it, our assumption was always top dream,
14:03financial freedom.
14:03Yeah.
14:04Less so on the physical and mental wellness.
14:09And the thinking was, I think, that a lot of this is more something for the younger generations, right?
14:14The older generations.
14:15Especially the mental well-being.
14:17Imagine this being a top priority, not five, six years ago.
14:21And now we are talking about this as a primary aspiration.
14:26Exactly.
14:26Exactly.
14:27But I don't think many people fully appreciate and realize that, right?
14:31I agree.
14:31And so we then unpacked a bit deeper, like actually, what exactly is impeding people from being able
14:38to achieve this dream, right?
14:39And the top four, or top four out of five, are things related to lack of exercise, poor
14:48sleeping patterns, poor eating habits, and stress and anxiety related to family work or
14:55other issues, right?
14:56Those are the top four.
14:57There is a fifth, which is around natural ailments due to aging, but these are the four that
15:01you're thinking about.
15:02So the focus on a healthier way of life, whether that's through exercise, better eating, better
15:09sleep patterns, is not a commonly looked after area, I would say.
15:14I think there's more and more interest.
15:16I mean, you see more excitement around doing sporting events, highlighting the importance
15:22of sleep and how to manage that so on and so forth.
15:24But the level of focus that it's been given compared to other areas is very, very low in
15:29comparison.
15:31So actually, I think this report helped us to understand that you need to realize that
15:36people's aspirations and ambitions individually is changing with time.
15:42You need to be aware of that and then see what needs to be done, whether it's both from
15:46a policy standpoint or from a private sector company standpoint, employer standpoint.
15:53We need to evolve and make sure we are aware of that.
15:55But when you talk about how it changes and evolves, did the survey find distinct differences or
16:02any material differences between, you talked about access earlier, between geographical
16:07locations?
16:08I'm just wondering whether are some of these universal aspirations or are some more urban-centric
16:16because think about being stuck in traffic and how much that relates to the stress of a
16:22daily commute.
16:23And I'm also curious to know how the differences between gender, do women dream of different
16:29things than men?
16:30Do younger people dream of different things than an older generation?
16:34Yeah.
16:35What did you find?
16:36Maybe I start first.
16:37So we also looked at it from understanding how much consensus there was between the top
16:42two dreams.
16:43And actually, from a consensus standpoint across Malaysia, regardless of demographic splits,
16:50there's huge consensus amongst those two being the top two dreams.
16:54If we go a little bit deeper from a gender standpoint, men and women, actually, women place
17:01physical and mental well-being a bit higher than financial freedom, right?
17:06And that you can think about it and unpack it more in terms of the fact that they take on
17:11more responsibilities and more burden when it comes to household, home, family responsibilities,
17:18and as a result are having to potentially juggle more different things.
17:22The care work comes into play.
17:24Correct.
17:25The caregiving work comes into play and that's where the challenges lie.
17:28And you know, we're moving towards a society which needs to bring more and more women back
17:33into the workforce, right?
17:34So that burden becomes even heavier for women as well.
17:38So that's sort of the split between gender.
17:41From an age standpoint, as expected, there are differences.
17:47If you think about the younger generations, they are, as you expect, more individualistic
17:52in nature.
17:53They are focusing more on achieving the individual ambitions and dreams.
17:57And what's great about it is you could say that they have that ambition and drive to be
18:02able to take more risks, right?
18:06As part of this report, we also broke down the demographics into what we call archetypes.
18:13And there are four main archetypes that we looked at, right?
18:15You have your go-getters, your legacy makers, your harmony seekers, and your providers.
18:21Those are the four.
18:22So go-getters, harmony seekers, legacy makers, and providers.
18:27And providers.
18:28And these are broadly the types of people in your respondents.
18:34The archetypes that we split up into these four archetypes, right?
18:37What I found really interesting was the biggest groups are actually your providers and your
18:43harmony seekers, right?
18:45Providers are the guys who basically have the caregiving responsibilities, who have to look
18:49after family, home, and therefore their focus is, I want financial security from my family.
18:54Okay.
18:54Harmony seekers are the guys who basically want that harmonious way of life that has a
18:59good balance.
19:00It fits very well with your top two dreams, right?
19:02Then you've got these other two categories of go-getters and legacy makers, which are,
19:09if you think about it, potentially the guys who will really make real changes and drives
19:14and take risks.
19:15I'll take risks.
19:16Right?
19:16In driving our economy and our country forward, right?
19:20May I interrupt very quickly?
19:21So, the harmony seekers and the providers, you said, were the biggest categories?
19:30The biggest categories, that's right.
19:31So, if you want the numbers for that, I can give you the numbers for that.
19:35I guess what I'm asking is, if it's majority, the providers and the harmony seekers, and the
19:42people who are willing to take the risks and want to be bold and be ambitious, are the minority.
19:52Are we thinking more about the minority over what the majority wants?
19:59Yes.
19:59Although, okay, so the part that concerns me a little bit is, again, we have all these
20:04plans, right?
20:05Which is important for economic growth for the country.
20:08We really want the country to progress and move forward.
20:10We want to become a high-income nation and so on and so forth.
20:13And so, there are certain growth areas that really need to be pushed and developed.
20:17And that's where you need your go-getters and that's where you need your legacy makers
20:21to really drive and push that forward.
20:22But they represent a smaller percentage than your harmony seekers and providers who are looking
20:29for that balance.
20:30So, this is the part where I'm like, oh, this is the part where I'm like, there's a bit
20:35of a discrepancy between these are what our plans are and these are what our dreams are.
20:39How do we bring those closer together?
20:41I see it now.
20:43I'm connecting the dots.
20:45Anis, what did you think?
20:46So, one of the things that also that Norlin mentioned about younger people being individualistic
20:54in nature.
20:55I'm curious to know about that.
20:56And I'm curious to know about how younger people dream, what their dreams are for themselves
21:03because they're the future of the country, essentially.
21:07Are we getting, do we understand what they're dreaming about?
21:10No, it's interesting that you brought up young people because actually the other interesting
21:14insight that we got from the study was the demographic, right, in Malaysia.
21:18Because one thing that I think we need to understand for Malaysia as well in the next few years,
21:23we're going to go through a big demographic change, right?
21:25So, we're not, yes, young people will continue to be important.
21:29We say they're going to be the next future generation, etc.
21:31But the trends are actually showing that, you know, one, Malaysians are living longer, right?
21:37Two, people are having less children.
21:41And three, the size of the working population is actually growing at a slower rate than it
21:47was before.
21:47So, you know, all the indicators are showing we're actually moving towards an aging population,
21:52right?
21:52So, the young people will come in, but they're going to stay in the workforce longer.
21:55And then that pool will kind of shrink, right?
21:58So, an understanding of this demographic is also really important for us as a country
22:03because I think, as Norlin said, when we looked at the cuts by age, if you look at the older
22:08population, they are looking more for stability, continuity, right?
22:12So, an example is like the legacy maker.
22:15So, they're still driven, but they want, it's all about long-term stability and continuity.
22:21So, I think the other thing that came out of the study was, as we look at all these national
22:25level policies, etc., how do these different demographic insights also influence how we
22:31think about policies, right?
22:32So, maybe it's not just about, you know, pursuing fast-paced growth in the short term,
22:38but really long-term, right, sustainability, continuity, etc.
22:42And to incorporate some of these more balanced aspirations into the policy, into the grand
22:52national plan.
22:53On that note, I want to ask you in the time that we have left, what are you hoping policymakers
22:59take from this report?
23:01Because I see now, there is a gap between maybe policymakers' dream for Malaysia and
23:07Malaysians' dream for ourselves.
23:11So, talk to me about who was the primary audience and how can, I guess, different segments use
23:17some of these findings?
23:18Because it's not just policymakers.
23:20I'm sure businesses, private sector can glean from this as well.
23:25I'm going to start with Norlin first.
23:26So, I think for me, it's exactly as you said, which is the fact that there's, in my view,
23:33a discrepancy, right?
23:35We have these wonderful plans and I have been very excited about these wonderful plans.
23:40But then I stopped and thought about it and I said to myself, this is what Malaysians
23:43really want.
23:44And do we actually have, I suppose, that engine of the people in the workforce who have aspirations
23:50and ambitions which are aligned to achieving these plans, right?
23:54And then when we conducted this study, paused for a bit and I said, hmm, okay, maybe there
24:01needs to be this, this gap needs to be filled between the two, right?
24:06Financial freedom, yes, we need economic growth to be able to achieve financial freedom,
24:10right?
24:10We need to bring in the jobs, we need to bring in the high income jobs that can give people
24:16the right kind of income and salary and wages that they're looking for.
24:19We need to try to increase wages for the people so that they have enough to save and retire
24:23and so on and so forth, right?
24:25But we cannot forget the second aspiration and dream which they have, which is physical
24:30and mental well-being and health.
24:32Now, if we are not able to achieve that, they get burnt out, so on and so forth, they're
24:36not going to achieve the first ambition, right?
24:38So we need to balance between the two.
24:41Now, it's important from a policymaking standpoint, but it's also important from a private sector
24:47standpoint, right?
24:48For organisations, companies, employers to understand and appreciate the fact that, you
24:54know, different generations have a different way of working.
24:57The needs, ambitions and dreams have evolved and therefore we need to put in place the
25:03right mechanisms, tools, policies within organisations to help our people to succeed so that we can
25:09then collectively succeed together, right?
25:11I think that's the part which I think is important and to constantly ask, and I think it's important
25:16for us to constantly ask this question, what are our dreams and how far are we from achieving
25:21those dreams?
25:22I go back to the first question which you had, which is why did you want to do this study?
25:26It's because we paused and said and looked at it and said, actually nobody's asked this
25:31question for a very long time.
25:32Yeah, it's been a while.
25:33Right?
25:33We've just been running on this assumption for a long time.
25:36Correct, right?
25:37So, can we take a step back and really understand what exactly do our people want?
25:43What do they exactly see as their dream and ambition?
25:46Anis, do you have anything to add for our audience today?
25:49No, I think Norlin covered most of it but just maybe talking about beyond policy, like
25:54Norlin mentioned, I think employers have a really important role to play, right?
25:59The study talks a lot about evolving dreams, evolving preferences, etc.
26:04So, then employees, I think, also need to be really proactive in terms of thinking about
26:08how best to shape the workforce to support that, right?
26:11So, things like more flexibility in terms of working models, right?
26:16Rescaling and upscaling, right?
26:17If we go back to the ageing, then people are going to be working longer.
26:20They do want to have more income continuity.
26:22How do we make sure we bring people along the journey?
26:25And then I think, you know, for the private sector, the types of products and services we're
26:29offering as well.
26:29As Norlin said, you know, financial freedom means a lot of different things to different
26:34people, right?
26:34It's not all about getting rich, maybe.
26:37It's more about, like, you know, retirement planning, things like that.
26:40So, I think there's a lot of really useful insights that are very actionable from our
26:43study that, you know, private sector players, employers can address.
26:48Last but not least, I think one whole thing of the report is that we just wanted to bring
26:52this into, like, the national dialogue.
26:54So, I think just like the conversation we're having here today, right, a lot of the conversations
26:58are really about macroeconomic indicators.
27:01But, you know, how can we have more conversations beyond that to say, let's really humanise it,
27:06right?
27:06What does that mean?
27:08Like, what is it that people actually want?
27:09What is the nuance behind, say, financial freedom?
27:12What does it actually mean to different people?
27:14So, just kind of bringing it, bringing the dialogue to life a little bit more.
27:18I really appreciate both of you coming on the show and telling us more about this report.
27:22It's been quite fascinating to ask a question that seems, it is deceptively simple, but
27:29so very necessary.
27:30Thank you both for your time.
27:32That's all the time we have for you on this episode of Consider This.
27:35I'm Melissa Idris, signing off for the evening.
27:37Thank you so much for watching and good night.
27:53I'm Melissa Idris, signing off for the evening.
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