00:10Hello and good evening. I'm Melissa Idris. Welcome to Consider This.
00:14This is the show where we want you to consider and then reconsider what you know of the news of
00:17the day.
00:18Malaysia has lost a remarkable woman today.
00:21Allah irham tun Dr. Siti Hazmah Muhammad Ali, who is one of the country's pioneering women doctors
00:27and a familiar presence in public life for generations.
00:32She has died today at the age of 100.
00:35Her life spanned a century of Malaysian history.
00:39What will we remember most about the woman behind the public figure?
00:44Well, joining me on the show today, I have people who will remember her.
00:47And first up is Ivy Josiah, who is a gender consultant and a committee member of the Women's Aid Organization.
00:55Ivy, thank you so much for joining us today during what is a very sad day.
00:59You knew, Allah irham, personally, I think you were among the guests at her 100th birthday party earlier this year.
01:09That was the last time I saw her.
01:11Was that the last time you saw her?
01:13Can you tell us what you remember about her or what you think about her beyond the image of a
01:21former first lady?
01:23Yes.
01:24Right?
01:24Yes, yeah.
01:25So, I mean, there are two important things.
01:29On a personal basis, when my mother passed away, I remember her calling me.
01:37I didn't expect the call, right?
01:40Because, of course, her daughter Marina is one of my dearest friends.
01:43So, she called me and I was so touched.
01:45I remember her consoling me.
01:47And it felt so good because I was really at a loss when my mother passed away.
01:52So, it felt so good hearing from another mother.
01:56And she was like that.
01:57She was always so kind and sweet.
02:00And whenever we have moments to chat with her, she will tell us all about what she used to do
02:05when she was young, what she was going to write a novel.
02:08She was going to write a novel, not a serious book, but she was going to come up with an
02:14interesting story.
02:15I forgot the storyline.
02:16I remember remembering that storyline was kind of bizarre.
02:19But she was always full of stories, smiling, kind, just such a kind person.
02:31And so, the last birthday party in July, when she turned 100, again, she was surrounded by love, all her
02:41friends.
02:43And by that time, you know, she couldn't really see properly.
02:48So, yeah, you had to go very near her and say, Auntie, this is Ivy here.
02:51Remember Ivy?
02:52Of course, Ivy, I remember you.
02:54You know, kind of thing.
02:54Happy birthday.
02:55And, you know, I always thought that she would always be around.
03:00It's like, I can't imagine her not being around.
03:06Because I've known Marina for almost 40 years.
03:08So, I've known her for almost 40 years too, right?
03:11Yeah.
03:11But where the women's groups are concerned, I will always be thankful for a couple of things she did for
03:20us.
03:20In 1995, when we had the last World Conference of Women, the government of Malaysia, she was going to represent
03:29the government of Malaysia.
03:30And she was leading the women's groups, the government group to Beijing, right?
03:35And the UN decided in 1995, all the countries that didn't sign on to CEDAW, that's a women's treaty, the
03:45Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women.
03:49So, Malaysia still hadn't signed on to the treaty.
03:54And we didn't want Malaysia to be embarrassed.
03:56We didn't want her to be embarrassed.
03:58But more than anything else, you know, we didn't want, Malaysia had so many rights already secured under CEDAW, and
04:05we didn't know what was holding back the Ministry of Foreign Affairs from signing on to this treaty.
04:10So, we quickly got the NCW rep to go and speak to her, and she, of course, then spoke to
04:18her husband at that time, our Prime Minister in 1995, and they signed on to the treaty.
04:24So, at least we could go to Beijing and say, sure, at least our country has signed on to the
04:28treaty, right?
04:29And the other thing I remember very clearly about, you know, Toon Siddhi Asma as the activist was, we're going
04:38to say, five, some of you may recall, we were not allowed to protest on Jalan Raja Loud, and so
04:44the whole protest was diverted to KLCC, which meant a very, very long walk.
04:51And I managed to get onto a truck, and this truck, because I was bringing the sound, the equipment, and
05:01when we were bringing the equipment to KLCC, I was in a truck full of equipment, and I see out
05:08the window, I see Toon Siddhi Asma just sitting there on a chair, and she's just waiting there for someone
05:13to give her a ride or what.
05:15I'm going like, Auntie, what are you doing here?
05:17Okay, why don't you come in?
05:18Now, you have to imagine this truck, this truck was full of equipment, there was hardly any space, so I
05:27had to make some space, and she got in, and she sat at the edge, full of equipment, and I
05:32was almost practically falling off my, you know, from the back seat, and she very patiently sat there, and then
05:40the truck moved slowly, and as we were moving, the number of people who wanted to reach out to her,
05:46you know,
05:47I thought she was so well loved, I mean, I was so overwhelmed, looking at the way the crowds outside,
05:54were just like so happy to see her through the window, and they would try and touch her, they tried
05:58to touch the window, and she was just so sweet, so patient,
06:02And we finally got to the, to our destination, you know, at KLCC, and then she was, I made sure
06:09that she got out of the place and got her a chair, and she could sit on a chair.
06:13Anyway, so, I mean, those are my memories, right, and she was also in the Family Planning Association, she was
06:21a very important person when it came to reproductive rights,
06:26I think she was always helped the women's aid organization, in a couple of fundraising events, I can't remember now,
06:34because I'm, I'm trying to like, jog my memory, I know, I can see her face, I can see the,
06:38the concert, I can see her there, I think it was a film, it was a movie screening, and we
06:45tried to raise money from the movie screening, she was always so supportive.
06:48It's, it's, it's been a very, I'm sure, emotional day. Ivy, thank you so much for sharing that with us.
06:54Can I ask you, when you talk about Tensithia Asma as an activist, she was also, I understand, did a
07:02lot in the space of public health, you know, especially HIV, AIDS, awareness, and this was a time when AIDS
07:09awareness programs, particularly around women in the early 90s, that was, it carried enormous stigma.
07:14Can you talk a little bit about that, about the fact that she was willing to champion such a, almost
07:21taboo issue during a time when it wasn't openly spoken about, what does that tell you, or what is that,
07:26what do you remember about her, willing to put her public persona behind?
07:30Where do you think Marina Mahathir gets her sense of activism, and, you know, sense of, we must do right
07:37by women? It comes from there, really, because she's a woman, she's a doctor, she's a mother, she's a sister,
07:45she's, so she's always been very aware of what is right for women, and she will, and, and that's where
07:50it comes from.
07:51It doesn't come from, I'm a leader of women, and so I will do that. She knew instinctively, but family
07:56planning is very important for women, that women must have the choice to decide how large, how small the family
08:05should be.
08:06It cannot be decided for her, right? So I think it came from that, I would say, instinctive activism, because
08:14she's a feminist, she's not going to call herself a feminist, but I believe that she was a feminist.
08:19I believe that she cared for women, she cared for society, women and children, and so, therefore, it was very
08:26natural for her to speak up, and intervene, and do whatever she can, in order to put some policies in
08:34place, especially reproductive health.
08:37Ivy, you mentioned that you had been friends with Marina for over 40 years, therefore, you know, Tun Siti Hasma
08:45as, you know, Marina's mother for over 40 years.
08:48Can you maybe share what you observed about that mother-daughter relationship, and what Tun Siti Hasma was like as
08:55a mother? What did you see as one of Marina's?
08:58A very caring mother, a very, very caring mother, loving and caring. I mean, it's a very, it was a
09:08very loving relationship. Yeah, of course, I've seen them together. Sometimes we meet for tea. I mean, very rarely, but
09:13occasionally we have met.
09:15And I know that she was also a caring grandmother, because, of course, I know Marina's daughters, both Sasha and
09:22Aiza, and I know that they loved their grandmother, and they loved their grandmother, because, you know, you can see
09:27in the photographs that she was very caring and loving.
09:34I can't think of any particular event or episodes or any moments, but all I know is when I see
09:40them all together, there was a lot of love.
09:43And for us, for Malaysians, when history remembers Tun Dr Siti Hasma, what do you think she should be primarily
09:51remembered as? You know, is it Malaysia's first lady? Is it a public health doctor, one of the pioneering public
09:59health doctors?
10:00All of it. All of it, right? I mean, you know, I'm a feminist, so she shouldn't be remembered as
10:06the prime minister's wife. Oh, no, she is a woman of her own standing.
10:10You know? So, I mean, I know there were so many surveys done. People just loved her, right? So, she's
10:18an activist. She was the first lady. She was a mother. She was a caring person. All of it.
10:25All right, wonderful. Ivy, thank you so much for joining me today, and I appreciate you sharing your memories and
10:29remembering.
10:30Thank you for giving me this opportunity to share, too. Okay, rest in peace and power, Auntie.
10:36I mean, we will be back with more on this topic in just a few minutes. Stay tuned to consider
10:41this.
10:42Bye-bye.
10:44Bye-bye.
10:45Bye-bye.
10:48Bye-bye.
10:49Bye-bye.
10:52Bye-bye.
10:53Bye-bye.
10:53Bye-bye.
10:53Bye-bye.
