- 5 weeks ago
In an India Today Democratic Newsroom broadcast hosted by Akshita Gopal, young journalists, anchors, and producers join a Gen Z roundtable alongside senior journalist Rajdeep Sardesai to analyse student protests in Delhi.
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00:17Hello and welcome. You're joining us on the special broadcast on India Today. I'm Akshita
00:21Nandakopal. Over the last 20 days, we've seen groups, a section of Generation Z, of Gen Z,
00:28hitting the streets, largely in the national capital, against paper leaks. The neat paper leak
00:34that happened months ago. It's been driven, of course, by a call for justice, by a call for
00:40action from the government. And you've heard many of these voices who've been out there protesting
00:45for the last many days. We've decided to change that up a bit and get you some of the voices
00:49of
00:50those from the same generation, from the same age group, who've been watching this protest
00:55from the sidelines. What do they think of what's playing out? Do they agree with those on the
01:01ground? Do they agree with the sentiment, with the demands that are being made? What's the road
01:06ahead? We're getting you the Gen Z roundtable here in India Today. So what we've done is from the
01:11India Today Media Plex, we have brought together some of our brightest representatives of Gen Z,
01:17I'd like to believe. These are anchors, producers, you know, from the digital space. We've got reporters,
01:24we've also got many from the TV space who've come together here to discuss really what they've seen
01:30on ground and what they think of the protest. So I'll just quickly get you an introduction of what
01:35each of them do. We've got Jessica Gowal and Anand Singh, both with digital, both of whom have been on
01:39the ground, have witnessed the protest firsthand. Shriya Kundu, our morning anchor on India Today,
01:45you've seen her deliver the news. You're going to hear her views of what she thinks of the protest as
01:49well. As with Anjali Pandey, some of our youngest faces here on India Today TV will be speaking out
01:54to you on what they think about the news they've been covering for the last few days. Vicky Agarwal is
01:59with our social media team. So he's been actively involved in all of the Instagram ex-videos that you've
02:04been seeing about this very movement. And we have Shivang as well, who's also been on ground tracking what's
02:11been happening, part of our digital team. He has seen the protest firsthand. So thank you all very much
02:16for joining me. It's going to be an interesting conversation, Jessica. I'll begin with you on
02:21what you've seen in the last 20 days. Much before the national media picked it up, I think there was
02:26a lot of chatter in the digital space of the protest. So you've seen it from then to what it's
02:31become now.
02:32What do you make of this protest? How organic is it? We've been tracking it right from when they had
02:39made the satirical handle of the Kokoro Janta party when they had first made it months ago. And then
02:44when they came to Delhi and started the protest on June 6th. So we've been on the ground since June
02:516th till even today, whatever has been happening, we've been tracking it very closely. So it's a
02:56very organic movement. Initially, they did not have a lot many people maybe joining the protests. You
03:01could see that in the initial months in June 6th when they had just started out, there were a few
03:06crowds. Everybody is pretty organic even till July 20th. July 20th, I think, was the day when we witnessed
03:13huge crowds. I don't think anybody was anticipating that amount of crowds. Even Delhi police, I don't
03:18think they were prepared to engage with these many people on the ground.
03:21And it was organic.
03:22It was all organic. It was people who were also like, you know, sitting at home and probably
03:27watching the reels and they were feeling left out and they were also joining the protests
03:30after a point because I had never seen crowds from Jantar Mantar to Meridian out till where
03:37we have these hotels and everything. People in the gardens, on the street, everywhere it
03:41was, Delhi was like choked that day. And I don't think anybody was prepared for that sort
03:46of a crowd. So it's huge amount of people. And even today, a lot of people are showing
03:50up. I've just come back from the site. So there are still people there on the ground.
03:54And now you have the area till Janpat metro and the area right before the parliament street
04:01and near the police station. All of that is still choked. A lot of people are still coming
04:04in. And you see a lot of people come in maybe after lunch time from 3 p.m. onwards. People
04:10like go home, they refresh, they come back and then they're here in the evening.
04:14Is it just youngsters though? Is it mostly people your age group or now it's become everyone?
04:18Now it's become a lot more people who are joining the protests as well. You see, because
04:22right now, DU is not on, right? Because they have their vacation right now. So I just met
04:28a couple of students who are from DU and they said that they have come back from their homes
04:32right now and they have joined the protests because up until now, they were not here.
04:35And they are saying that there's a lot many people from DU who are sitting back at home
04:39and they want to join the protests as well. So once maybe college begins, we'll see a lot
04:43more college crowd pouring. But at this moment, you're also seeing a lot of people who are coming
04:47from Punjab, Chandigarh, Bihar, Haryana. I just saw one section of Mazdur, Ekta come in today.
04:52So you can see a lot of people who are from different unions also now joining the protests,
04:57which it's not just limited to students or youngsters anymore. So a lot of more people
05:01who are anti-establishment, anti-government are also joining the protests now.
05:06Okay. Anand, what do you think is the emotion that's driving what we're seeing right now?
05:11Is it a sense of anger? Is it frustration? Is it that they want change and that's it?
05:18What is it?
05:18I think it's a mix of a lot of issues now. Like initially, it was just about the neat papers,
05:23the neat paper leak. But now we're seeing people who have appeared for the Agni Veer exams.
05:31Even they are there. The ethanol protesters, even they have joined the...
05:35It's kind of become a mix, a blend of issues.
05:37It's a blend of issues now.
05:42Right.
05:42And there were student groups there as well. ISA was there. SFI was there.
05:48But right now, it's everything. Like all the pent up anger, all the, you know, the issues
05:53that people have had over the years. It's all coming out. I think it has given, the neat paper
05:59leaks has given people a medium to, because especially because right now there is no, say like,
06:07there's no face leading the protests. I mean, there are people...
06:11The CJP?
06:12CJP, I think there has been a vacuum from their end. A lot of people have felt that.
06:17So there's not a lot of faith in the CJP and Jantar Mantar?
06:20I see, like people want to turn up, which is a very good thing. People should participate. If they have
06:27to, like,
06:28if they want change, they should participate. But I feel like there has been a vacuum from the CJP leadership
06:35per se,
06:35because they have been there. Even on the day of the protests, June, July 20th, I was there.
06:41At night, after the march and after all the violence, Abhij Deepke was there for about 15 to 20 minutes.
06:51And then he just disappeared after that. And the crowd was left on its own.
06:55So people are there from, like, you know, different backgrounds who have, you know, their own opinions about different issues.
07:03They won't participate. But I think, despite it being organic, it's not being led the way.
07:08I mean, there is no... Nobody's really steering it.
07:12Yeah. So there's no leader right now.
07:13There is no leader. It's what a lot of experts have also felt.
07:17Okay. Shivang, what do you think? I'd love to know. You've seen what it's like.
07:20Do you think, do you agree with what Anand says that, you know, the CJP is not the leader here.
07:25There is no leader and yet people are coming in in large numbers.
07:27Is there a sense of disappointment that Sonam Vangchuk ended his fast?
07:31Some of the demands that have been put forth haven't really been met?
07:35Yes. I personally feel, yeah, I would like to add to what Anand said.
07:40Yes, there is a huge vacuum. But people are also very soft when it comes to speaking anything against the
07:47CJP because they know it is only because of them that everyone is standing there.
07:52So the people that we're talking about, Abhijit, Swarabdas, they are not politicians. They are very new to it.
07:58And with this protest, they are also experiencing how things unfold. So I think, yes, there has been a vacuum.
08:06That guy is…
08:07No, and you know, the fact that Anand is saying that where were they, you know?
08:10Yes.
08:10Does that question constantly come up?
08:12So there have been several instances when I reached the Jantar Mantar at around 6 or 7, I almost never
08:19found Abhijit Deepke around that time.
08:21So I feel every day from 6am to around 9am, 10am, Abhijit Deepke was not on the side.
08:28So anyone who was coming to the protest side for that particular timeframe would obviously feel that it's like a
08:34very leaderless movement.
08:36If we talk about him now, he is sick. So that is why perhaps we didn't see him with the
08:42talks that unfolded with J.P. Nadda.
08:46So, yes, I get what you are saying. But I feel they are too inexperienced to lead something like this.
08:52And yes, the protest has become much bigger for the CJP to continue.
08:57I will say this though, that even for the Gen Z, for everyone out there, this is a new experience.
09:02It doesn't stop them though from going all out in Jantar Mantar.
09:04I will just bring in the rest of you in a bit. Rajdeep Sardesai is also joining us on this
09:08broadcast.
09:09The reason in a Gen Z round table we are bringing in Rajdeep is because I think experience matters a
09:15whole lot.
09:15Rajdeep, you have seen many of these kind of protests led by youngsters.
09:20What do you think makes this particular Gen Z protest stand out to you?
09:25First of all, Akshita, I may be 61, but I am Gen Z in heart.
09:29So, let's get it by heart.
09:31You know, I can compete with all of you in energy levels.
09:34Let's do a…
09:34It's a very exclusive club, Rajdeep. It's a hard one to crack.
09:37It's an exclusive club, I know. I wish I could be 21 all over again.
09:40But look, you know, it's great listening to your voice.
09:43First of all, I want to congratulate Anand.
09:46You know, it is his wonderful story today that has echoed across the country.
09:49The pellet gun story.
09:51This is a young man who has done a great story on, you know, proving, disproving what the Delhi police
09:55was doing.
09:56The older generation was very happy to go with the Delhi police fact checks.
09:59The reality was very different.
10:01It required a young guy to take the initiative.
10:03So, hats off to you, Anand, and well done.
10:05That's what I want to see more of Gen Z doing.
10:07You know, exploring these, you know, doing good, hard journalism.
10:11So, that's great.
10:12Look, you know, I, in a country of 1.4 billion people, I don't think we should bracket people in
10:18any one way.
10:19I actually see India A, B, C, D.
10:22What's India A?
10:23India, and that's how we should see Gen Z.
10:25India A is those who've arrived, whose parents can afford to send their children to private colleges, private universities or
10:31send them abroad.
10:32Then there's India B. These are middle class professionals who still nurture the dream of making their sons doctors, engineers,
10:38professionals.
10:39There's India C, which lives in smaller towns, perhaps, you know, in suburban India, who wants their children one day
10:47to at least get government jobs, if not anything else.
10:49And then there's India D, which is totally hopeless.
10:52I think this revolution of Gen Z is one of India B and C.
10:56These are the guys, many of them salaried parents, you know, who struggle to give their children the best possible
11:04education and then find an education system that's broken.
11:07I think addressing their concerns is important.
11:10And what, what I have admired over the last 10 days is just how creative you guys are with Insta.
11:16You know, every day when y'all put out these Insta feeds, I keep going to my daughter and say,
11:19how do I share it?
11:20I don't even know how to share an Insta reel, but you know, my daughter's quick with it.
11:24She's sending me stuff and y'all are, you know, it's emotions packed in 30 seconds.
11:29Now, I may as an old style journalist think, where are the 3000 words?
11:32And I remember when I joined TV from print in 1994, I was a print journalist.
11:37A lot of my older colleagues said, what are you doing in TV?
11:41You'll only do a three minute story.
11:43What happened to the 2000 word article?
11:45Now, maybe you guys will tell me, you know, I mean, maybe I'll tell you guys, what are you guys
11:50doing?
11:51These one minute Insta reels, but that's what people are watching.
11:53This is an Insta revolution cutting across boundaries.
11:56There are guys from Boston, I know, who are putting, who are getting food through Swiggy for some of the
12:02protestors.
12:04I mean, that's what you guys have done.
12:06It's transnational.
12:07It's cutting boundaries.
12:08But it is this generation that is aspirational and is finding they don't have equal opportunity.
12:14I think that's why India, BNC, aspirational, but not getting equal opportunity.
12:18I think they are the ones who are driving this.
12:20Just a second, Rajdeep.
12:22Anand, Jessica, Shivagiro.
12:24Can you guys come in here on Rajdeep's definition of India, A, B, C, D.
12:27Do you think that's the case?
12:28Or is this Gen Z cutting across, you know, classes?
12:32Because you see a lot of reels that suggest that, you know, people have come even in solidarity from all
12:35kinds of sections.
12:36Yes, yes, definitely.
12:37I would say there's a lot of elite crowd there as well, a lot of Gen Z.
12:40It's not just the backward classes, people who cannot afford to be there.
12:44In fact, there's lesser amount of those people who are present there, especially in the initial days.
12:48You would see a lot more people who can talk in English, who come from very elite schools and colleges,
12:54and they use Instagram.
12:56They know they're making these reels which are very relatable.
13:01So, it's not just limited to students or youngsters, in fact, who cannot just go.
13:07In fact, because the weekend is coming up, so I've been seeing a lot of these reels now.
13:11Corporate mazdoors, which is a slang for a lot of these people who are working in corporate organizations.
13:17Now, they want to come and join the protests as well.
13:19To join it. And come in corporate get up, I hear.
13:21No, just normally, they would just go out, they would go to offices, maybe like in general clothes.
13:25But they would now want to go because they are also feeling FOMO, the fear of missing out.
13:29They don't want to miss out on this protest before it gets over.
13:32Because with these talks going on, everybody's getting the sense that…
13:34Come in, Jessica.
13:35Yeah.
13:35Rajdeep, I think they…
13:36Jessica, I'll tell you why.
13:37I met a lot of parents.
13:38A lot of parents are anguished, anxious or angry about, you know, the fact that the system is broken.
13:44But also those images of the police hitting students with lati.
13:48I know you've got videos of stone pelting.
13:50But for many of the young, they cannot accept.
13:53Your generation, if I may be allowed to, you know, talk like an old man.
13:56Your generation is impatient, fearless and reckless at the same time.
14:01And therefore, they are really pissed off.
14:04If I may use your language.
14:05Pissed off.
14:06Who are these guys with the dunda, these old…
14:09These policemen treating young kids in the way they are.
14:11That has been a turning point.
14:13I mean, those visuals are going viral.
14:16And that's what's forced the Prime Minister to do a midnight video.
14:20An Insta-like video.
14:21I mean, hats off to you guys.
14:24I mean, hats off to…
14:24This generation says, I love whatever is wrong with my generation.
14:27That's the kind of hashtag and the captions they are also putting out.
14:30It's a don't care, you know, I don't care, this is how I am.
14:33I love whatever is wrong with this generation.
14:35And the fact that the Prime Minister to do…
14:37I've got a friend whose daughter has come back from Colombia.
14:40Because he knows the Gen Z's sleep schedule.
14:41Yeah.
14:42So he knew the Gen Z's going to watch this.
14:43Doom scrolling.
14:44You're going to be doom scrolling at that time.
14:45Yes, Rajdeep, sorry.
14:47No, no.
14:47Look, there's a lot of India A.
14:49I've got a friend whose daughter is in Colombia.
14:50She's come back for some other work.
14:53But she joined the protest because she wanted to express solidarity.
14:56You see, a lot of those in India A realize they've had the benefit of a great education,
15:00but many others don't.
15:01I like the fact that you're showing empathy to others.
15:04I mean, all of this solidarity.
15:05My son, he's a doctor.
15:07He's gone through NEET.
15:08He knows what it takes to become a doctor in India.
15:11He's there only out of a sense of solidarity.
15:13He's not waving any slogan.
15:14He's not shouting slogans or any posters.
15:17He just wants to express his solidarity.
15:19And I know a lot of medics have formed these groups just to express solidarity.
15:23So this is not a movement with a leader.
15:25They don't even care who's, you know, many of them don't even know who Abhijit Dipke is.
15:29They don't know CJP.
15:30They don't even know, you know, what the, you know, whether they want Dharmendra Pradhan
15:38to go at the moment because he's become a bit of a trigger point.
15:41But the real issue is that our education system, again, to use a word of your generation,
15:46simply sucks.
15:48That's the truth.
15:50It's an education system.
15:51They think that sucks for a lot of people who don't have access to great,
15:54to great colleges and schools.
15:56So they're coming out of a sense of anguish, anxiety.
15:59And dare I say in some instances, because of that lati charge, anger.
16:02But hats off to you guys, just to see your creativity.
16:05I just love it.
16:07Adding to that, I think, talking about the leadership and having a face, I don't think this movement
16:12anymore requires any face or a leader.
16:15Courtsy social media.
16:15Because, you know, there were statements which were being made.
16:19There was a perception that when Sonam Wangchuk was picked up, this movement is going to weaken
16:23and, you know, we're going to see the end of it.
16:26But that did not happen.
16:27Instead, on the contrary, this movement was strengthened after Sonam Wangchuk was picked up.
16:32In fact, even now, he has ended his hunger strike.
16:36But the movement is continuing in its very spirit.
16:39Yeah.
16:39So this movement, I don't think, it was being assumed that it needs Sonam Wangchuk,
16:44but it does not need Sonam Wangchuk also anymore.
16:46Talking about CJP, I know majority of the people, if I can say that,
16:50majority of the people are not CJP supporters who have gathered there.
16:54They don't care about CJP.
16:55So what is it then?
16:56What is it?
16:57It's the cause that's driving them.
16:59It's the frustration.
17:00FOMO, seeing what's happening on social media and saying, I want to see what's there.
17:03No, no.
17:04So I will agree.
17:05There's a FOMO factor also because there is this fear of missing out that is prevailing
17:09and that is very common in the Gen Z.
17:11Yeah.
17:12Like everyone, your friends are putting out dreams.
17:14And I know there are walls happening in drawing rooms that,
17:15Papa, I want to go and they're like, nahi lathi chalega, but then nahi mere friends gaya.
17:20So, of course, there's a FOMO factor.
17:22For those who are not that politically aware, but the majority of the people who have actually gathered
17:27there, there's a frustration, there's an anger, not particularly about the paper league.
17:31Of course, it's the paper league that…
17:33That triggered it.
17:34Yeah.
17:34But there's a lot of other issues that is driving this anger and they are not there for
17:39the CJP.
17:40They're not there for the CJP.
17:41They are there for the cause.
17:42They don't care about the politics part.
17:44Even if you eliminate factors like Sonam Vangchuk, like CJP, who's talking to the government,
17:50this will continue.
17:51Yes, absolutely.
17:52It is.
17:52It is.
17:54That's what the beauty about this protest is.
17:58And I want to pick up a word that Rajdeep just mentioned, which is empathy.
18:02I think this is a protest.
18:03Protests have happened for endless, like eons and eons and this time, right?
18:09Of course.
18:09You have seen it.
18:10Rajdeep has seen it.
18:11And I think every generation comes up thinking that, you know, our cause is one which is,
18:16or our protest is one which is unprecedented.
18:19Nobody has seen anything of this sort, right?
18:21I mean, at some point that is what motivates you to go out there at this first place, right?
18:25So even for Gen Z, yes, I would say this is the medium that's new in this protest, which
18:32is everything is on record.
18:35Everything.
18:36Be it from the establishment side or from the protestor side, whatever you are doing,
18:42everything is being recorded.
18:43With that being said, the beauty of this protest is even though I would say it does lack structure
18:51or maybe organization.
18:53But you don't need a structure.
18:53You don't need any of that.
18:55Because I don't think in the history of protest, anybody has seen a protest with such empathy.
19:01Because at the end of the day, there are videos or even people who are out there.
19:06How many times have you seen a protest where you have food parcels being ordered from across
19:11the world?
19:11How many protests have you seen out there where you see people clean up the roads after they
19:17have protested at that very location?
19:19That's the best part of this.
19:20I mean, our own government does support that.
19:23Swachh Bharat is something that they started, right?
19:25So we are, I see the protestors going out there and following that.
19:29Leading by example.
19:29So the policies of the government that have struck a chord with them, I think they are
19:34following it right out there and leading by example.
19:37This is a protest that I see has a cause which nobody, not a single individual out there
19:45in this country or outside the country has denied.
19:49The other part that people are, I think, debating about right now is the methodology probably.
19:55The way July 20th panned out, whether that is right from the protestors' side, whether
20:01what the government or what the forces out there ended up doing, whether that was right,
20:07that has become now the point of debate.
20:09Nobody is denying the cause.
20:10But I will also say this, that while on the internet, and the internet is perhaps the
20:16most democratic space that you will find, because everybody puts out anything that you
20:21want to record and put out there at the end of the day, I would say this, that people
20:28have also become a bit intolerant.
20:30Because I want to say this.
20:32How?
20:32How?
20:33I will say this because, and I will explain it here, because at the end of the day, while
20:38no one has denied the cause, like I said, people do have their debates about the method.
20:43But that doesn't mean at the same point that they are not extending their support.
20:47And that has led to a lot of debate with regards to…
20:49You mean there are layers essentially.
20:50Layers, exactly.
20:51Where people are not agreeing to the fact that, okay, but why did you have to go out there
20:56at a particular point and why did this particular person have to strike at this particular,
21:02you know, the part of the forces that were there?
21:04Why did they have to do this?
21:05Why did they have to rile them up?
21:07I think inevitably with any protest, sometimes it goes out of hand, especially when it's
21:11at this scale.
21:11Very true.
21:12You can't control everyone who walks onto a street and enters your province.
21:15Very true.
21:15And at the end of the day…
21:16It's impossible to control it.
21:18Rajdeep also…
21:19Rajdeep also…
21:19Because of a group of elements that have tried to…
21:22Yeah, you can't align the entire cause.
21:24Yeah, Rajdeep.
21:24How are you controlling that?
21:26You know, let's be fair.
21:27Every protest will be part organic, as this is, and it will be partly also politically
21:31organized.
21:32And there are politicians who are coming on the stage, Samajwadi Party, Triramul Congress,
21:36Aam Atmi Party, they've all come on the stage.
21:40There's the Bheem Army of Chandrasekhar, which is playing a big role.
21:42I think Dalit students, that's where I say India B and C, particularly India C, people
21:47who feel that with privatization of government, with more and more government jobs going into
21:51the private sector, they are losing out.
21:53They were beneficiaries of reservation at some stage.
21:56So, people coming with different agendas, but they don't really…
21:58What I found interesting, they're not really caring too much about the politicians on the
22:02stage.
22:02They're doing their own thing.
22:04You know, each one is making, creatively doing some poster.
22:07Yes, there have been some abusive slogans, unacceptable.
22:10All of that is happening.
22:11It'll happen in any movement.
22:13But the core of the movement is a general sense of anxiety and angry with the education
22:18system.
22:19And I think no one will say…
22:20You see, because it's an issue like education, I think it unites people.
22:24Because that's an issue…
22:25Rajdeep, just one point to that.
22:27I think it's…
22:28You know, political parties can come in as much as they want.
22:30I think very clearly this is a movement that we're saying, let them come in if they
22:34want.
22:34Nobody cares.
22:35Because ultimately, every single one of these political parties, Rajdeep, have zero Gen Z
22:40representation or presence.
22:42So, how are they ever going to figure out what the Gen Z is thinking or wanting to say?
22:45In fact, Akshata…
22:46You know, the Gen Z is not watching politics.
22:49Politics is watching Gen Z.
22:50Each of those parties want Gen Z to be in their team.
22:54No, but I'll just mention it.
22:55Vicky's been waiting very patiently for his term.
22:57Can I ask you all a question?
22:59Sure, Rajdeep.
22:59Can I ask all of you?
23:00I mean, are you all interested in politics in terms of party politics or what is politics
23:06for this Gen Z?
23:07I'm just trying to understand.
23:08What does politics mean or public life mean for you Gen Z guys?
23:13Someone who talks about me, talks about my issues and does not think…
23:17Have you seen anyone do it off late?
23:19Not yet.
23:20Absolutely not.
23:21So, if you go at the CJP protests, people are very sad as well.
23:26Because they feel a lot of them see no hope with the current political leadership that
23:31we have.
23:32Irrespective of the parties that we are talking about.
23:34So, irrespective of who is in power and who is on the other side?
23:37Yes.
23:37People are very dissatisfied.
23:39Is that because of what I said?
23:40That there is no Gen Z representation?
23:42No, it's not about Gen Z.
23:43It's not about Gen Z.
23:44Because I think people like us don't care about the age of the person who is at the helm.
23:48We just care about whether our issues are being heard.
23:52And that is something I feel.
23:54So, if we talk about the CJP protest here.
23:59See, the government took over a month to actually take any notice of this happening.
24:04So, I think with every single day, Jessica and I saw how the anger kept penting up.
24:09So, the reason we are perhaps having this debate is because of what happened on the 20th of July.
24:1520th of July happened because there was no communication between the government and the CJP.
24:21So, I think people were coming back to it.
24:24I feel that people have really low hopes when it comes to politicians.
24:29And which is what added to the curiosity as well, I would say.
24:32That's why a lot of people, while till the 19th, yes, most of them who were supportive of the cause
24:38were turning up.
24:39But, come 18th and 19th, one, yes, Sonam Wangchuk was shifted to the hospital.
24:46I would say, maybe perhaps a bit of that also added fuel to the fire at that point.
24:51But, more importantly, I think a lot of people were also curious to see, there is a leader.
24:58Because Sonam Wangchuk, by that time, had sort of become the face of the entire thing.
25:02He was like the moral face of it.
25:03And he was the moral face of it.
25:04Right?
25:04He was the moral face of it.
25:05So, they wanted to see that, okay, here is a person who is in a hospital.
25:09His health has deteriorated.
25:10Let's at least show some solidarity or at least go out and see.
25:14And get a response.
25:14And get a response as to see what happens.
25:17Vicky, I think you're one of the few here who believes, and you have reservations about the protest at least,
25:23that's happening at Jantar Mantar.
25:25Why is that?
25:26So, first of all, I would like to answer that many of us has raised the question that there were
25:31lati charged against the protestors.
25:33Yeah.
25:33So, when paper was leaked, like, family and the students, they started protesting from 4th of May.
25:39Okay.
25:40And till 20th, like, government was like, allow them, like, you can do protest whatever you want to do.
25:47They didn't use the lati charge or police force.
25:49But, protesters said that they are going to march to parliament.
25:54And it was the time of monsoon session.
25:57Delhi police already imposed the BNS 163.
26:00So, one side you are saying that you are for the constitution and on the next time side, you are
26:06against the constitution.
26:07You are not following the laws which Delhi government has already implemented.
26:12They said that you can't march from that particular point.
26:17And they were chanting, like, we will make India as a Bangladesh or Nepal.
26:22So, my question is that are you, are that protestors, they were against the government or government policy or they
26:29were against the state.
26:31Like, you can't say that…
26:33You are saying there is kind of like a mix and also…
26:36And they were chanting, like, they were chanting the words they were using against the prime minister, home minister.
26:44It's not a part of a democracy or it's not a part of a protest.
26:48Like, protest is a part of a democracy.
26:50I think there has been a lot of talk about abusive language and all of that at these protests.
26:54Anand, what do you want to say about that?
26:55I mean, the state has its own ways to deal with…
26:58I mean, we have seen what happened on July 20th.
27:00So, I mean, I wouldn't say that…
27:01Exactly the same thing…
27:02What did you see on July 20th?
27:03What did you see?
27:04I mean, you were the one who, like Rajdeep said, broke the story about the pellet victims.
27:08Yes.
27:08What did you see?
27:09Were there elements, what happened exactly that led to this clash, et cetera?
27:13I mean, of course, there are elements that are…
27:16I mean, sometimes people say that, you know, they're planted in the crowd and those elements have been there.
27:24Do you really think Mahbubha Mufti, like, he came to the protest, he was planted or that person who came
27:30from Maharashtra,
27:31he was against, like, he is pro-reservation person, Maratha reservation.
27:35He came to meet with the protesters.
27:38So, do you think they were planted?
27:40If you are saying that…
27:44You are saying that this protest is about the education.
27:47So, be stuck to the education.
27:48See, it is.
27:49I think, you know, when you see different political heads come to it,
27:52I think this is not about everyone having their own agendas.
27:55This is about ensuring that you give impetus.
27:56But CM of JNK, he is saying that…
27:58It's about giving more impetus.
27:59See, maybe Vicky, there is politics permeating in.
28:03And politicians will try to kind of use this cause, try to hijack it, try to be like…
28:07That's my concern.
28:08That's my concern.
28:09I am not against the student who are protesting for the fair education system.
28:12But I am against the power which are used behind that protest.
28:16What powers?
28:16Again, this is common.
28:17Like, CGP…
28:18The ideology is what is being debated about now.
28:21CGP, we all know the founder of CGP who had already worked with the Aamadmi Party.
28:25And so what?
28:26That's his experience.
28:27But I think the protest has moved on from CGP and Sonam Bangshad and the other political parties.
28:32I don't think you've got to be stuck on the prior alliance or work experience, whatever you want to call
28:37it.
28:38It has nothing to do.
28:38Just see what they are asking.
28:39They are just asking that for the resignation of Dharmendra Prada.
28:42And that's fine.
28:43In a democracy, they are bound to, right?
28:45But that is not a constitutional term.
28:46Like in constitution, article 75, 2, 3 says that it's a collective responsibility.
28:52But there is not a kind of a single term used as an individual responsibility.
28:56So how do you vent anger them, Vicky?
28:59But how do you then seek accountability?
29:00And how do you vent as a citizen?
29:02So as you as a youngster, if you had a problem with something the government did, how would you object?
29:07All 3rd of May, a need was conducted.
29:10The next day NDA said that paper was leaked and we are questioning, we are asking the government.
29:16And the government said that we have started a CVI inquiry.
29:19Within the, I think, 8 to 9 days, CVI inquiry was made and people were arrested.
29:25And within the 15 to 20 days, government again conducted the exam and results were declared.
29:32So I think from my perspective, accountability is this.
29:35You can't press at the government that…
29:37But then you can keep having these paper leaks.
29:39You can keep having re-exams.
29:40How many more re-exams will you do?
29:42How many times?
29:42Also a paper leak.
29:43It wasn't the only issue.
29:45There was CVSC also.
29:46There were errors in the CVSC.
29:47But this is a recurring issue.
29:48Which it is.
29:49It is a recurring issue.
29:50Let's be honest about it.
29:51It's not the first time.
29:52So we should talk about…
29:53We should make the mechanism.
29:54And then whose job is it then to fix the system?
29:56No, but we should make up…
29:57Again, if there is so much outrage out there…
29:59Okay, okay.
30:00One at a time.
30:00We are fed up.
30:01I think the problem is all of those lakhs of people who are there.
30:04It's that pent up emotion is because there has been a series of things going wrong.
30:08Again, you don't get a reaction like that if it's the first instance.
30:11It's the nth instance.
30:13And I think why you are seeing this is because…
30:15So what they were…
30:15I think simple…
30:16At some point…
30:17Again, it's my portfolio.
30:19It's my responsibility.
30:20If I am seeing a problem with the system, it becomes my onus and responsibility to fix it
30:25But in the time…
30:26Okay, then let me just turn this around.
30:27Let me just turn this around.
30:28Jessica?
30:29I think you should see the interview what rankers said.
30:33Yeah.
30:33Like AIR 1, what he said, what AIR 2 said.
30:36Either you…
30:37They can also be part of that protest, but they choose to prepare the exam.
30:42They go…
30:42Sir, that's not the thing.
30:43And what about the ones who have already died by suicide?
30:46It's not the thing.
30:47Maybe…
30:47Okay, the cause I think can have people divided.
30:50Those who feel that they should be changed are out on the streets.
30:52There are some who say…
30:53But are there students who have given the NEED exams?
30:56Yes.
30:56There were a lot of students who gave NEED exams who were also there.
30:59Only day before yesterday when we had violence at the Tolstoy Road,
31:02I met a NEED student who had given his…
31:04They were beating the police.
31:05Not everyone, sir.
31:06Not everyone.
31:07They were…
31:09I agree with you.
31:12It is known to be very democratic and ordinary.
31:14So, let's…
31:15I'm just saying…
31:18I was at the CJP on the day the NEED exams happened.
31:23And we had students coming to the CJP protest straight from the examination centre.
31:28They had their admit cards with them.
31:30So, there are students who are a part of it.
31:33But I do get what he is saying.
31:36That there are some political motivations.
31:38No, I agree.
31:38As in both…
31:39No, for Vicky's point, I think we all agree.
31:41That, you know, when politicians enter, unfortunately, they try to hijack the cause.
31:45And that's something that I think Gen Z and everyone who is in the protest has also said…
31:49And people are seeing through it.
31:50Not just politicians.
31:51Rajdeep has one point quickly, Rajdeep.
31:53Because he has to go.
31:54No, I just want to make this point.
31:55Listening to all of you, I am feeling so good.
31:57Because when that democratic newsroom takes place of senior anchors, they shout at each other.
32:01You all are actually arguing in a civilised manner.
32:04You don't need to use that gavel that Preeti Chaudhary uses.
32:07You know, I just like the way you guys are agreeing to disagree.
32:11And that's what I like.
32:12You know, it's agreeing to disagree the essence of democracy.
32:15I think the problem is politics in India is run by older people.
32:20And those older people, you know, believe my way or the highway.
32:25Younger generation, I think, wants much more debate, dialogue in some form.
32:29Listen to me, even if it's a 30-second reel.
32:33And I think that's the way forward.
32:35I think the government, all governments.
32:37And you know, education is also a state subject.
32:39So, all state governments are responsible for paper leaks, not just the centre.
32:43All state governments have to recognise that you need to have conversation.
32:46You need to have dialogue.
32:48Not one-way communication.
32:49You see, too many of our politicians across the board think,
32:52that we are one-way communication.
32:53How much of serious engagement do the countries, people in high offices, do with your generation?
33:00Understand your problems.
33:01And please understand, you and I and all this in this panel are relatively privileged.
33:04I go back to it.
33:06It is India B and C, particularly India C, which feels completely left out of the system.
33:11Worst effected, yes.
33:12They don't have the kind of...
33:13Worst effected, yes.
33:13And it's their anger.
33:13Worst effected, yes, Rajdi.
33:15But I think this protest is everyone.
33:16And it's not just about an individual therefore.
33:17Everyone on the streets today.
33:18Because that's what social media does to you, right?
33:20You're able to have that conversation.
33:22You're able to see into depths that you've never been able to otherwise, unless you were there.
33:25Have you seen in any manifesto of any parties, let's say, a 10-point program for Gen Z?
33:31That these are the 10 things.
33:32If we come to power, these are the 10 things that we will do that the present governments have not
33:36done.
33:36I haven't seen it.
33:37I want a clear...
33:38I think Shivang made a point on that, saying we don't care about the age group of these politicians.
33:42They don't have to be Gen Z politicians.
33:43But talk about what we want.
33:44What are our education ministers more interested in?
33:46Rewriting history.
33:48I don't think we need to rewrite history.
33:49I think the education ministers of this country, whoever they are, state and center, should be focused on the structural
33:55issues.
33:55I have some crazy statistics of teacher absenteeism.
33:58Number of schools in this country which don't even have a proper girls' toilet.
34:03Just the fact that the kind of fees that are being charged by private colleges,
34:07without even giving you a real degree which is meaningful and makes you employable.
34:12Forget about employment, employable.
34:15Okay.
34:15These are the issues which I want them to discuss.
34:17They don't.
34:18I hope that this revolution that you're creating leads to that.
34:21I don't care who resigns, who doesn't.
34:23Shivang, you wanted to make a point.
34:24You should care about that.
34:25What you want, put them on the mat and make them accountable for a better education system.
34:29China has so many universities in the top 100.
34:31We don't have a single one.
34:32When are we going to talk about that?
34:34How are you going to create a vixen barra without even having one university in the top 100?
34:38Shivang.
34:39Rajdeep sir just said that no political party has like a 10 point agenda for Gen Z.
34:44But I think, I personally believe that every party has its own conscience.
34:48But these political parties have to go down to their vote banks.
34:53For instance, Bihar.
34:54Prashant Kishore introduced, tried to introduce a lot of changes for the people of Bihar.
34:59Especially for the youngsters.
35:01So there's no palayan or migration per se.
35:05But he got zero seats.
35:06So, I think it's time that people…
35:08It changes, right?
35:09Because a lot of the students are not studying in Bihar.
35:11Can I ask you, Jessica, what did you think of the Prime Minister's video message?
35:15The fact that, you know, usually you'd see him sitting in front of a camera addressing
35:19the nation with a video message.
35:21He's chosen instead to do a selfie video.
35:24Releasing it as Anjali said, you know, close to midnight where everyone's room scrolling
35:28on their phones.
35:29There was a lot of messaging involved.
35:30But what did you make of it?
35:31You went to Jantar Mantra today as well.
35:33Yes.
35:33What did people have to say about it?
35:34So, if you look at the timing of the reel also, it's like 2.55.
35:39It's right below three minutes.
35:41That's exactly the amount.
35:43You need a video below three minutes for it to be a short.
35:46It's got someone from Gen Z in his office.
35:47Yeah.
35:47So, if you want it to be a vertical video for YouTube and shorts.
35:50So, all of that, I think there was a lot of thinking that went behind.
35:54And he started the message with saying,
35:56Friends.
35:56Hello friends.
35:57Not Mitro.
35:58Not Mitro.
35:58So, he used an English word and he said, and he was talking.
36:02A lot of people though were complaining that he was still talking in a very slow pace
36:07compared to what we are used to online.
36:10A lot of people were watching the video in 2X.
36:12That is also one of the feedback that I got because you can just hold the Instagram video
36:16and you can make it 2X.
36:18A lot of people.
36:18Yeah.
36:19I think a lot of us.
36:20Yeah.
36:21I think a lot of us.
36:22Was it reassuring is my question.
36:24I asked that to one of the protesters.
36:25I'll just finish it off and you can take it off.
36:28Sure.
36:28I asked it to a couple of people.
36:29What did they think about the message?
36:31Did it relate to them?
36:32Were they able to relate to the Prime Minister and his message?
36:34They said that they don't really care about that as long as their demand of resignation
36:37of Dharmendra Pradhan is not met.
36:38So, they're stubborn.
36:39Stubborn on resignation.
36:40Yeah.
36:40They're firm that this is the demand that we have kept and you need to meet it no matter
36:45what you say even if you're going to talk about exams and other issues.
36:48But this is a demand that we have put forth and that needs to be met if you want us
36:52to
36:52go away from the protest side now.
36:54Anand, what do you think?
36:55A lot of people they read too much into it.
36:58The camera angle and you know they were observing.
37:01It was like this.
37:02I think it was like this.
37:03I mean if we shot the video I think we'd kind of do this.
37:14I think most of Gen Z, I'm a millennial I'm not a Gen Z but I think if I've seen
37:20Gen Z
37:21reels it's more above.
37:22But I think most of our parents generation does check the phone like this.
37:27No offense intended.
37:29But again it's very like quote and quote right.
37:31It's the way an uncle holds the phone.
37:33Exactly.
37:34It's like that.
37:35You correct your father right.
37:36I don't think the Prime Minister is trying to be Gen Z.
37:39I think he's trying to reach out to Gen Z.
37:41He's very intentional.
37:42Very very intentional.
37:43People did read into these details and I feel like you know sometimes it comes off as
37:48you know an older person trying too hard to relate.
37:51That's something that you know a lot of older people try to do.
37:55So I think.
37:56It won't cut any eyes.
37:57You don't think it will cut any eyes.
37:58I don't think it would because that's not very natural.
38:02So this is continuing.
38:02Yes.
38:03And that's not very natural of like you know somebody who has been in front of the camera
38:09a particular way.
38:10This is like you know like a lot of people found it.
38:15Some people said it was a jump scare to look at the Prime Minister like that.
38:18But.
38:20Yeah.
38:20Yeah.
38:21Harsh.
38:21You know two things from that message again.
38:25The moment that I saw it.
38:25Firstly that notification came on the phone and then I see the video.
38:28So I thought to myself because we have seen multiple announcements right from demonetization to all your lockdown messaging.
38:37It's come through in 16 is to 9 format.
38:39This was 5 is to 4.
38:41I was thinking to myself am I seeing the right thing because this is a deviation.
38:44And a massive one at that.
38:47I've.
38:47We've all seen multiple feeds come across over all these years that we've been in journalism.
38:52It's never happened.
38:53So it tells me that clearly.
38:56That he's listening.
38:57There is intention behind taking this to the larger generation.
39:00Yeah.
39:00Those videos horizontal videos don't work.
39:03It's almost like you know.
39:04No he's listening.
39:05He's reaching out to us.
39:06I have last two minutes where I want a message from each of you.
39:09One thing I felt when I saw that video.
39:11I felt that maybe this is not what was the need of the hour per se.
39:16Or there's one massive thing missing in that messaging.
39:19Which is there was no mention of Dharmendra Pradha.
39:21No should there.
39:22That's what I think.
39:23And I think the heart of this protest is Dharmendra Pradha's resignation.
39:26No should it be larger than that Shivang.
39:27Then are you being no narrow sighted by saying resignation, resignation, resignation.
39:31When it's a larger cause right.
39:32Of reform in education and so much more than that.
39:35Yes.
39:35So is it focused on just one symbol for no reason.
39:37Quickly I need all of your work.
39:39So I personally believe that resignation is the.
39:41Has always been the core demand of the protest.
39:44But there's no talk of.
39:45Talk of.
39:46Suppose he resigns today.
39:48Or maybe he does not.
39:49What does that change?
39:49What happens?
39:50What happens next?
39:51No but that's a very strong message I believe.
39:54We also have a very strong message.
39:55Everyone then needs to get their act together in the cabinet.
39:58It's an accountability.
39:59Last night itself there was an entire rejig within the education ministry.
40:03They have changed a lot of the.
40:05But even that has been the question.
40:06Even that has been the question.
40:08Once you start going for the peace.
40:08Once you start going for the peace.
40:08So that's the impact of the protest.
40:10Resignation is a constitutional conviction, not a constitutional obligation.
40:22What?
40:26Resignation.
40:26The Prime Minister now in the cabinet meeting,
40:29one second, just hold on, hold on, hold on.
40:31The Prime Minister in the cabinet meeting has just come in.
40:34The Prime Minister has asked his colleagues in the cabinet,
40:38how many of you are actually active on platforms like Instagram?
40:42He also told them that most of the youth are connected on such platforms
40:47and he's advised every minister to be active on Instagram, on social media.
40:52Every minister should post reels, should have interactive content.
40:56And that the youth are only on Instagram right now.
40:59This is how you need to connect with citizens.
41:01Rakshita, I would like to make a point.
41:03Of course, this is a reach out to the agency,
41:07but I think this is still not a two-way thing.
41:10This is still a one-way thing.
41:11Ministers need to post reels, ministers need to be on Instagram,
41:14but how are you conversing with the youth?
41:16How are you getting to know what the youth wants?
41:19You are posting what you want to post,
41:21but how will you get to know what the youth wants?
41:23And the youth clearly wants accountability.
41:24So, what's the conversation?
41:26And we don't want assurances.
41:27One concluding point from me would be,
41:29I think this protest has brought out one very clear message from both sides.
41:33That is, the search for agency from either side.
41:36The Gen Z felt that they were not being heard.
41:39They were being, to an extent,
41:40I'm sorry to use this word, being a part of the generation,
41:42but to an extent being mocked.
41:45Everybody had had all these thoughts.
41:47There's a certain perception about Gen Z.
41:48Which I think has been shattered now.
41:51Honestly, yes, we do see a lot of these funny videos,
41:54even from the protest sites,
41:56but at the end of the day,
41:57it's about having a platform to be heard.
41:59For the government's part,
42:00I think the government in the last 12 years
42:02has never had to face a problem like this,
42:04where they have not.
42:05They still don't have governance in place for social media.
42:08What do you do?
42:09That's why the Prime Minister today was forced to come out
42:11and meet the protesters at a platform
42:14where this movement has actually taken precedence,
42:17which is social media.
42:18And that is why this protest,
42:20if it has done anything,
42:21it's given an answer to the search for agency from both sides.
42:24Okay, Anand, Jessica, Harshit, everyone, quickly.
42:28Will nothing short of a resignation do?
42:30Will nothing else end what's happening at Jantar Mantar?
42:32I think now, because the issues have mixed up,
42:36even if the resignation happens,
42:38I think it wouldn't end.
42:40It will continue.
42:41Because the anger is too much.
42:43Then it dies a natural death.
42:45Do you think that, Jessica?
42:46I think that our government is also very smart.
42:51They've been doing this politics is what they do.
42:54So they know what to...
42:55I think that they are also forming some sort of a strategy
42:57to quell it in a way where we don't know it right now.
43:01I think maybe transferring him to another ministry
43:04or giving him another department
43:06and making somebody else the education minister.
43:08Because CJP has not been saying
43:10that you make another person the education minister.
43:13What they're saying,
43:13it will be somebody from the BJP only
43:15who will become the minister.
43:17They know that too.
43:18So that is what the CJP organizers
43:20have been saying so far as well.
43:22So it's not that they're saying that,
43:23you know, this government should go away,
43:24even though some of the protesters there...
43:26It's not more to do with this.
43:27It's not more to do with the education
43:28and they are seeking accountability in the sense
43:30if you have been doing...
43:32If you have NTA, if you had need issues
43:34and if you had all of the CBSE, you know,
43:36thing go out the wrong way,
43:38then you need to be held accountable for that
43:39and that starts with the resignation of this minister.
43:41Accountability.
43:42I think accountability, yes, resignation or not.
43:45What makes this movement such a welcome step
43:48is I think we are at least having a conversation
43:50about reforming education,
43:52which is, there's no doubt about it.
43:54Every one of us have felt it, seen it,
43:57witnessed it one way or another.
43:59There is a need to reform education in this country.
44:01So I hope it opens up that larger conversation.
44:04I will see which way this goes.
44:05It's been a very interesting eye-opening for me
44:08and a true learning experience
44:10to have a conversation with all of you from Gen Z.
44:13And we'll see how this protest moves.
44:15But what's very, very clear,
44:16Ashree also pointed out,
44:17is that there's a perception about Gen Z
44:19that I think has been completely shattered,
44:21which is great.
44:22We had a certain image about Gen Z.
44:24They've proven us wrong in all the right ways.
44:27Thanks very much for tuning in.
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