- 1 day ago
On this episode of the RealTrending podcast, Tracey Velt sits down with Craig McClelland, a partner in McClelland & Hahn Consulting, for a wide-ranging conversation about the forces reshaping residential real estate. Beyond the latest merger and acquisition headlines, Craig explains why the industry's biggest shift is happening behind the scenes, as brokerages become part of larger ecosystems driven by mortgage, technology, data and other high-margin businesses. He shares why independent brokerages need to rethink growth, specialization and profitability to remain competitive in an evolving market.
The discussion also tackles one of real estate's most polarizing topics — private listings. Tracey and Craig examine the balance between seller choice, brokerage control and consumer access while exploring the changing roles of MLSs, portals and listing data. They also discuss how artificial intelligence and Google's growing role in property search could influence the homebuying experience without fundamentally changing the agent's role.
To close the episode, Craig offers his predictions for where the industry is headed over the next five years, including why transaction data may become real estate's most valuable asset and why unexpected players like insurance companies could make deeper moves into the residential space. It's an insightful look at the trends, technology, and business strategies that will shape the next chapter of real estate.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
Why mergers are really about data, margins, and customer acquisition—not brokerage brands.
How mid-sized brokerages can survive by specializing instead of competing on agent count.
Why transaction data may become the industry's most valuable long-term asset.
The future of private listings, MLSs, portals, and AI-powered home search.
Which unexpected industries could become the next major players in residential real estate.
Related to this episode:
Craig McClelland's LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/craigatlanta/
Want more from Tracey? Don’t forget to subscribe to Real Estate Daily.
The RealTrending podcast features conversations with the brightest minds in real estate. Every Monday, brokerage leaders, top agents, team leaders, and industry experts join us to share their secrets to success, trends, and the lessons they’ve learned. Hosted by Tracey Velt and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
The discussion also tackles one of real estate's most polarizing topics — private listings. Tracey and Craig examine the balance between seller choice, brokerage control and consumer access while exploring the changing roles of MLSs, portals and listing data. They also discuss how artificial intelligence and Google's growing role in property search could influence the homebuying experience without fundamentally changing the agent's role.
To close the episode, Craig offers his predictions for where the industry is headed over the next five years, including why transaction data may become real estate's most valuable asset and why unexpected players like insurance companies could make deeper moves into the residential space. It's an insightful look at the trends, technology, and business strategies that will shape the next chapter of real estate.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
Why mergers are really about data, margins, and customer acquisition—not brokerage brands.
How mid-sized brokerages can survive by specializing instead of competing on agent count.
Why transaction data may become the industry's most valuable long-term asset.
The future of private listings, MLSs, portals, and AI-powered home search.
Which unexpected industries could become the next major players in residential real estate.
Related to this episode:
Craig McClelland's LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/craigatlanta/
Want more from Tracey? Don’t forget to subscribe to Real Estate Daily.
The RealTrending podcast features conversations with the brightest minds in real estate. Every Monday, brokerage leaders, top agents, team leaders, and industry experts join us to share their secrets to success, trends, and the lessons they’ve learned. Hosted by Tracey Velt and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00There's a lot going on in the real estate industry right now.
00:03And thankfully, we have Craig McClelland.
00:06He is a partner with Rob Hahn and McClelland and Hahn.
00:09He's also a thought leader in the industry.
00:11And we chat about kind of recent M&A, but more importantly, what other industries are
00:18getting into possibly buying real estate brokerage companies and where is the industry moving
00:23from here?
00:24It was a really interesting conversation and I'm sure you'll love it.
00:28So enjoy the podcast.
00:39We had a great conversation at the gathering this year talking, of course, that was when
00:44the real REMAX acquisition was announced.
00:49So when you look at the kind of recent wave of M&A, people tend to focus on logos or
00:56who
00:56bought whom, but what's really going on underneath the surface?
01:00I think, you know, I think that's a funny one to bring out because I think the logos are
01:03mostly a distraction.
01:04I think this is really about, you know, there's data, there's all these underlying things.
01:09There's larger margin businesses buying brokerage.
01:12So when you think of like a Compass Anywhere or a Stone Point buying into Keller Williams,
01:16those are headlines.
01:17The real move is happening under the layers.
01:20So when you think about it, like I think more compelling is like a rocket buying a Redfin for
01:24$1.75 billion and then Mr. Cooper for $14.2 billion.
01:29Now you have servicing, they're servicing one in every six transactions in the U.S.
01:34So like this is a really big deal.
01:36So when you look at that, brokerage is being repurposed into like a customer acquisition
01:39funnel for higher margin businesses.
01:41So I think that is like the, it's not the narrative right now, but I think it's the underlying
01:47conversation we're going to have as this moves forward and as it matures as a conversation.
01:52Yeah, absolutely.
01:53And we've also talked for years, like the industry in general, about kind of the middle brokerage
01:58getting squeezed.
01:59And I know that Steve Murray has mentioned that for years now.
02:03I mean, I'm talking 15 years of if you're big or you're boutique, you got a chance anywhere,
02:10anybody in the middle is going to struggle.
02:13So do you think that's showing up in the M&A market in a real way right now?
02:17Yeah, I think it's accelerating.
02:18You know, capital flows and two engine, it's really is accelerating because the casualty,
02:25not trying to say anything wrong, but you know, the 50 to 500 agent independent, it's
02:31no longer about like the split economics.
02:32It's now about like ancillary businesses.
02:34It's about, you know, them having, you know, this tech mode, they have to have some unique
02:39niche that they service.
02:40So it's no longer just about headcount.
02:43It's about, do you have margins in your business?
02:44Do you have these other ways of generating top line revenue?
02:49You know, it's all those components now.
02:50So if you're just like a firm with 250 agents and that's what you have to offer, I think
02:55that you're very vulnerable.
02:57If not, you have these, if you're a 60 agent firm that has, you know, a strong team, has
03:01strong mortgage relationships, has other components to the business model, you service
03:05like high end luxury clients, then you're much more defensible and you'll have a better
03:09valuation if you choose to sell.
03:11Does that make sense?
03:11Yeah, absolutely.
03:13You know, there's also, you know, we've had, there were other buyers for REMAX and they're
03:21not all who you might expect them to be.
03:24So what other industries are kind of looking at residential real estate right now?
03:29Private equity, mortgage, fintech, home services, and what do you think they want?
03:35I think there's a lot of them that are looking at it.
03:39I think, like I said in the beginning, there's these high margin business outfits that are
03:44looking at brokerage as a part of the overall transaction, not necessarily the center of
03:50the transaction anymore.
03:51And they're saying, hey, I have access to data.
03:54I have access to the consumer.
03:55I have access to the transaction.
03:56I have access to the things that becomes part of a larger piece of the transaction.
04:02So when you think about origination, when you think about servicing mortgages, when you
04:04think about these other pieces, like these are good margin businesses, right?
04:08So like, it's becoming a bigger part of the conversation.
04:10So if you want to have fun and get into the conversation, like who's getting into it?
04:17Like there's lots of industries that are thinking about getting into.
04:20I think one that's very interesting, if you want to have a dialogue and like go down a
04:23little bit of a rabbit hole, I think that, um, you know, we see, uh, prop tech, we see
04:29fintech, we see, um, uh, like insurance that is going, I think insurance getting into it
04:36is really like, I could see that getting like at a scale.
04:40If you wanted to like, look down the futuristic, you know, crystal ball is like, who ends up jumping
04:47in this game?
04:47Well, you know, think about anybody that's around the house, right?
04:51Do REITs start getting into it to like property management?
04:54Do they say, Hey, we're doing, we've got the capacity of doing servicing real estate and
04:58in other ways, can we get into this residential component or this game?
05:02Uh, but the one that I find very, very fascinating is really insurance.
05:05Like I think I could see insurance getting into it and us looking back in about five years
05:07and going, okay, well that made a lot of sense.
05:09Like it's regulated.
05:10It has like these components around it.
05:12They are, they're a point of sale, like at the transaction.
05:14Um, but they're building books of businesses that they want to like, uh, they want a long
05:19term relationship with a consumer.
05:21And that's where I see like the rocket redfin is a very interesting one.
05:23Also is like, it's not just the transaction.
05:26It's not just origination.
05:27It's servicing the mortgage for, for, you know, seven, 30 years, right?
05:32Like that's a different type of relationship and it's, it's very monetizable.
05:36Right.
05:36Yeah.
05:37And we've, we've gone through this before.
05:39I mean, financial services buying into, and you know, you had home Depot, you, you know,
05:44there was all kinds of talk and then you've had Merrill Lynch actually do at Sears.
05:48So, um, you know, what makes this different than that?
05:53Cause it failed for them.
05:54So, so what makes this different?
05:56I think that, um, timing makes things different.
06:00Right.
06:01Um, you know, timing makes things a lot different.
06:03So like the technology is different now, the structures are different.
06:06We're looking at, we're in a world now that there's more national brokerage entities than
06:11there are like the, the, the regional or, um, you know, statewide brokerage companies.
06:16And that's because we figured out how to like use data at scale.
06:20We figured out how to leverage technology across, you know, thousands of agents or thousands
06:23of transactions.
06:25Right.
06:25So it's becoming much more accessible.
06:27Um, so if you think about this, like you can take a spreadsheet that had a million lines
06:32in it and it would be very hard for you to digest that in the past.
06:36Like you'd have to have analysts look through it.
06:38You'd have to have like all these things that you do.
06:39Now you can just throw it into Claude and he can spit out, you know, some types of results
06:44off it.
06:44Right.
06:45Like that, all of a sudden that makes this, this large sections of data, very digestible
06:50and doable.
06:51Now it doesn't take away the relationship between the agent and the consumer.
06:54Right.
06:55It doesn't, it doesn't, you know, relieve that or remove that in any way, but it does
07:00say, Hey, can I scale at, you know, um, across thousands of transactions in an efficient way?
07:06Yeah, you can.
07:07Right.
07:07So a lot of those have changed.
07:08I mean, when you talk about like Sears getting into the business, right.
07:12Sears was setting up kiosks in the lawnmower department or the tool department to try to
07:16sell houses.
07:17Okay.
07:17Like that's a totally different scenario than what like rocket's doing right now with Redfin.
07:21And it's, they're actually coming alongside the consumer and supporting the consumer
07:25in a significantly different way with very viable tools, with very viable like support
07:30systems.
07:30So I think it's kind of apples and oranges that we're looking at.
07:35We're saying like, Hey, 40 years, like they tried doing it, you know, Brookshire Hathaway
07:38bought, you know, Iowa Realty.
07:40Like, and that was this home services model that they were coming out with is like, yeah,
07:44well, you know how they're doing it now is significantly different.
07:46And it does revolve around the data.
07:48It does revolve around access to the data and leveraging and what they can do with the
07:52data sets and what they can do around the transaction and what can actually happen.
07:55But I think the technology and the timing makes a significant impact on that narrative.
08:00Yeah.
08:01Well, and you've also got Berkshire with the home building, which is a newer one as well,
08:08you know, and, and kind of leveraging that relationship, which nobody really has done
08:14before.
08:14I don't, I don't think I'm trying to think if there's any, if there's been anything you
08:19got prudential, they're not really home building.
08:21So, yeah.
08:22Well, yeah.
08:22Douglas element was building brokerage companies underneath their, you know, their, their,
08:26the condos they were building.
08:27So they were building buildings and then dovetailing the real estate into it.
08:31Um, and it's always shown that it works really well.
08:33I, you know, Berkshire Hathaway, I don't see them, uh, at scale doing that, uh, because,
08:40uh, Taylor Morris has a lot of brokerage relationships already in place and they have a lot of functional
08:45structure already in place.
08:46I don't see them like breaking all that down just to make it work for home services, but
08:50I could see it as a, as a benefit, uh, to what they're doing.
08:54So as a broker, um, you know, hearing all of this kind of noise, um, you know, what,
09:01narrow it down for me, like, tell me, what do you think that they really need to understand
09:06about the way the industry is moving and what it's moving toward so that they can capitalize
09:11on it, on that and leverage it to, to their best ability, whether it's selling the broke,
09:17the business or, uh, you know, merging with another company or changing the way that they,
09:23you know, their business model, even.
09:24I think it comes back to exactly what we're saying earlier is like, you know, they have to
09:28have clean financials and reoccurring revenue best, you know, a best multiple business is
09:33going to be, they have good margins.
09:34They have a defensible moat.
09:35So when we talk about ancillary services, we talk about, um, uh, you know, having systems
09:41set up to where they have like teams and resources and good splits and stuff like that.
09:46It's less about the agent count.
09:47It's more about like top line revenue.
09:50And what, what are you getting as far as EBITDA?
09:51Like what is actually hitting the bottom line?
09:53So, um, that requires you to have a functional system, you know, functional, functional brokerage
09:58company set up.
09:58The other thing too, is like, um, as a small, you know, midsize brokerage company, like focusing
10:04on what is your niche is very important nowadays.
10:07Like in the past, it wasn't like in the past, it was like, Hey, I hire a bunch of agents.
10:11Some agents do some business, you know, we'll, we'll figure out what market share we can pick
10:14up.
10:15And like, I'm kind of, I have a luxury division.
10:18I have a, you know, uh, like a resi-mercial division and I have a new agent division and
10:23I have a, you know, whatever it may be.
10:24We do some condos, we do some short-term rental stuff.
10:28Um, and the reality is now, like I tell brokerage company, I say, find one of those lanes and
10:33be really, really good at it.
10:35Like if you're going to do luxury, like make everything about your brokerage company about
10:38luxury, like do high-end ultra luxury and make it all about luxury.
10:42Like if you're going to do resi-mercial, like if you're going to do like a commercial
10:45like do commercial, like if you're going to do, you know, uh, fix and flips, like make
10:49that your core purpose and be really good at it because then people have to buy that
10:55in order to like, they're like, Hey, in order for me to get into this category, I have to
11:00buy that brokerage company to get into the category.
11:02Right.
11:02And that's totally different.
11:03Yeah, absolutely.
11:05Um, so we're going to switch gears and go to private listings.
11:07It's kind of one of the loudest fights in real estate right now.
11:11Yeah.
11:11Um, do you think it's really about seller choice or is it about who controls the listing,
11:16the inventory, consumer demand, you know, where are we going with this?
11:20I think that, um, I, I think that like the narrative is buyer choice.
11:26And I think that a lot of people that really is, uh, what they're trying to defend against
11:30is, is, is seller choice in some capacity.
11:33Um, I, I think the reality is, is like, we've evolved as a system to a point that we have
11:39to reevaluate where we're at.
11:41Like we've gotten to where it's like, we send everything out everywhere all the time.
11:44It's like, well, that's not, is that really the best for the consumer or their situation?
11:48Now, look, the underpinning to it is definitely about data.
11:52Like there's something to be said about data, but there's a reality that like the MLS is originally
11:56were not the marketing tool for all the brokerage companies, brokerage companies were, right?
12:01The brokerage companies decided how they market.
12:02I remember, you know, uh, back in the early two thousands, when I was marketing, I marketed
12:07through publications.
12:08Well, I decided what information about that listing went in the publication because then
12:12people would call me off that and say, Hey, what's the price?
12:15What's the address?
12:16What's the, whatever.
12:16So I would limit what information I sent it.
12:18Now, what I put in the MLS, I put everything in the MLS.
12:21But the reason why I did that is because I needed other agents to know everything about that
12:25property.
12:25So if they're going to bring a buyer, they would bring that to me.
12:28Well, we've gotten in a world where it's like, it's displayed on
12:31every listing, everywhere, all the time, all, you know, every app, like, and like a brokerage
12:35company is saying, well, wait a minute, I want to control some of that.
12:37And also not all my consumers want that kind of exposure.
12:40So it is a real narrative.
12:42The underpinnings 100% are about data.
12:45But the reality is, is like, yeah, it is a, it is a seller choice thing.
12:49And I think that, you know, it's going to be interesting where it goes because I really
12:52believe that there is a place that it is going and, you know, I'm happy to talk about it.
12:57It's just so funny.
12:58I just remember, you know, in the early, I think it was the 90s, probably, when it was
13:05all about, you know, we control the information and we don't want it out on the internet.
13:10We don't want it out on Zillow.
13:12We don't want it out at all.
13:14Because we want buyers to call us as a broker or as an agent to get the information.
13:19And I feel like we're, we're a little bit moving back toward that.
13:24We can't ever move back toward that.
13:26I mean, let's be realistic.
13:28But like, how does it change the value of a brokerage, an MLS, a portal, you know, in
13:34this whole conversation?
13:37Well, I mean, first off, like the, what you just said, like, I take it back one step and
13:43I'd say like, everybody's saying we're going back.
13:45It's like, well, wait a minute, sometimes things get out of hand and they have to be
13:49reset a little bit.
13:50So it's not like, it's not like we're going back in time to this horrible place and we've
13:54evolved to this wonderful place.
13:56It's beyond that.
13:57Sometimes we evolve too far and we're saying, well, wait a minute, like who put the MLS
14:00in the role of doing the marketing for the brokerage company?
14:04Like that, that, that's a very real conversation.
14:06So it's like, is the, if the brokerage company saying, hey, I want to control how I market and
14:11the consumer will decide if they want to work with me on how I'm going to market the
14:14property, like that's how this should work.
14:16That's how it used to work years ago.
14:18This, this evolution of portals is fairly new.
14:20I mean, buyer agency only came out in the eighties.
14:22Like, so I mean, like none of this is like, none of this is like historically hundreds
14:26of thousands of years old.
14:27Now there's a lot of stuff that's happened in that time.
14:30There's, there's a lot of like there's very real conversations and laws that were created
14:35about like to protect the consumer and things like that, that we have to address.
14:37And that'll be addressed through a lot of these conversations.
14:40A lot of these lawsuits are happening, evolutions that are happening.
14:42But I think we have to go through this because I think the MLS has to figure out like where
14:46they live.
14:47The brokerage has to just figure out like where they live.
14:49The portals have to figure out where they live.
14:50Like this, this is, this is a defining moment in our industry.
14:53That's, that's super exciting and it's great.
14:55And these are conversations that we should have honestly should have had 20 years ago as
15:00we were moving forward.
15:01And now we're just like, we're, we're addressing them now and they need to be addressed.
15:04So it's a hundred percent.
15:06Yeah, absolutely.
15:07Um, and like, if the listing data is becoming a strategic asset, what should brokers do be
15:12doing differently to protect themselves from like cutting themselves off from the marketplace
15:17in general?
15:18Well, you know, the brokers, it is at the core, it is the data that they're originating,
15:24right?
15:24Like the consumer owns the data, but it's the broker is originating that data and they
15:27are in a fiduciary responsibility or fiduciary relationship with the consumer on how they
15:32handle that data.
15:33Like, so some brokers will choose to monetize it and some brokers will choose to, you know,
15:38um, have that different ways.
15:40But the reality is, is like, I think that is a conversation with the brokerage companies,
15:43like the brokerage companies have to decide, um, how they are going to say, Hey, this is
15:47my business model and this is how I'm going to run.
15:50And if you don't like it, you can do it a different way.
15:53Right.
15:53But this is how I'm going to operate.
15:55I mean, I agree with a lot of the stances that Hobie has had with how, how he's decided
15:59to participate or not participate in IDX feeds.
16:01I agree a lot of with what compass is doing and Redfin is doing a lot of brokers out there
16:06are doing, uh, because it is, it is a real conversation.
16:08Like I have a hard time with all these people in this conversation or all these businesses
16:13in the conversation that don't have fiduciary responsibility with the consumer.
16:16Like you didn't sign an agreement with the consumer.
16:18Like if someone gets sued, it's me.
16:20Like I get sued because it is how I'm representing the consumer, not you.
16:23So don't tell me how to run my business.
16:25Right.
16:26Yeah.
16:26Yeah, absolutely.
16:27I mean, I think that's, um, where a lot of brokers are right now.
16:32Um, so five years from now, um, what do you think we'll kind of look back on as a turning
16:39point in real estate ownership, control of the listing, just what's going on right now?
16:45Summarize it.
16:46What, what, what it'll look like five years from now or two years from now?
16:51Um, I think that, uh, I think it's going to be, I think, well, one thing that I'll say
16:57is I think that, um, we're going to go through these conversations about private listings,
17:04about MLS data feeds, uh, all these things.
17:07And, uh, it's going to evolve into, um, I think it's gonna be better for our industry
17:13because we, we have to have these conversations.
17:14The, the, the, the worst conversations are the ones that are never had, right?
17:18Like we don't like confront these situations.
17:21We just kind of push them under the rug.
17:23And, um, so I'm happy we're having these conversations and it's going to shape the
17:26next three, five, seven, 10 years of what it looks like.
17:30So I think it's going to start out with a lot of the, the conversations about the MNAs that
17:34are happening, the data rights, the private listings, all these things, I think, but what's
17:39really going to shape things down the road is going to be the, um, uh, these larger ecosystems
17:45where brokerage is a, a part of the ecosystem where there's, you know, large margin or high
17:51margin businesses in the ecosystem.
17:54And, and, and brokerage is not the largest margin component in it.
17:57Like it's not the center of the transaction.
17:59There's all these things that could create a better experience for the consumer at the
18:02end of the day, right?
18:03The, the, like the moment that Rocket and Redfin came together, like what will that mature
18:07into and will there be other systems like that?
18:09They'll be created.
18:10I mean, that's, that's, I think that's really exciting because at the end of the day, the
18:13consumer ends up winning.
18:14Um, and so do all the business models, right?
18:16It's like, we can offer better services, better, better systems, better processes, you know,
18:22better experiences and better cost value to the consumer.
18:25Right.
18:25And that's a win for everybody.
18:26Yeah.
18:27And with the Stu, um, Google listing ad services, um, you know, do you think it's going to change
18:33the way consumers search for homes?
18:36And what do you think the impact on the industry will be?
18:39That's a, that's an interesting one.
18:41Like, I don't know where that one's going to mature into.
18:43I think there's a lot of conversations or food for thought around that.
18:46Um, I think it's going to be a, um, it's not going to be the model.
18:51It's going to be more of a feature.
18:53Uh, and a lot of people are looking at it like it's the model, but you know, uh, for
18:57Google to have listings on Google is no different than Zillow having listings on Zillow or
19:02homes.com having listings on homes or real truck, or real truck.com.
19:05So like, it, it, it doesn't really change a lot.
19:08I mean, sure.
19:09Maybe it sucks some volume out of Zillow or out of some of the other portals out there
19:12because they're very accessible as a, as a browser.
19:16Um, but I don't think that it changes the dynamics of the industry, right?
19:20It just creates some more visibility that like, I mean, there, there's plenty of reports
19:25out there that, you know, people don't just go to Zillow.
19:28Now, a lot of people go to Zillow, uh, but they go to multiple sources, right?
19:31Like they go to Zillow and five other sources or whatever.
19:34So if, if Google's one of those sources, does it change the business model?
19:37Not really.
19:38If, if Google is a large source like Zillow, does it change business model?
19:42Not really.
19:43Um, you know, we've got some great products out there like homes.com that is putting the
19:47listing agents front and center, if Google does the same thing, does it help the agent
19:51a little bit?
19:52Yeah.
19:52But it doesn't really change the workflow or the, it doesn't overall change the structure
19:56in the industry yet.
19:58Right.
19:59Yeah.
20:00Yeah.
20:00I just feel like it's going to be a little bit of a different search.
20:03Um, you know, I think we've already started moving toward that, but rather than that search
20:09of, I want a, you know, two bedroom, two bath home in this neighborhood and this, it'll
20:15become a little more lifestyle focused and easier to do, um, especially with the AI integrations,
20:23um, as we move forward.
20:25But I, so I still think that's a feature like, um, so like if you go on Zillow and you,
20:30and
20:30you drop down filter three bedroom, two bath, Gwinnett County under 350, like whatever, like
20:36that is like, that's a way you search.
20:39It's a feature of your search.
20:40So if you change that and you said, Hey, I could write in just, um, I could literally
20:44click record on my computer and just say, I would like to see houses in this area and
20:50just record something.
20:51And it just spits it out.
20:53But it's a much more, um, I think a much more, uh, elegant, right.
20:58Experience for the consumer, but it's still just a feature of the search, right?
21:03We're going to have AI that's literally just chatting with you on search engines.
21:06Right.
21:06And that's, it's still just a feature of the search, right?
21:09Like when you start taking things and you, um, you change, uh, the workflow of things
21:15like, uh, you know, the, the, like the, um, you take the agent out of the, out of the
21:20workflow or the loan officer out of a workflow, or you, or you, you know, make them work.
21:24You have them working very tightly together or one's offsetting the other one's costs.
21:27Like all of a sudden you're kind of changing the dynamics of the transaction.
21:30And I think that's really interesting.
21:33Yeah, absolutely.
21:34All right.
21:34We're going to do a lightning round.
21:35So first thing that comes to mind, uh, most underrated asset in a brokerage.
21:40Transaction data.
21:42Like, I think that, uh, transaction data agents and brokerage companies are the first point
21:46of data for listings, for transactions, for, for closed data.
21:51Um, it, it's not really organized.
21:54Um, so I think that that is, it's really interesting.
21:57I think that a company that has a balance sheet will eventually jump in the game and say, Hey,
22:01I want to have my hands around that transaction data because I can, um, provide assets to the
22:07consumer and, uh, and, uh, you know, monetize that data.
22:12So I think the transaction did not just, not just, not just, not just real time, but like past
22:17transaction data also.
22:18So anyways.
22:19Yeah.
22:19All right.
22:20Who has more leverage right now?
22:21Brokerages, MLSs or portals?
22:23Brokers.
22:25Okay.
22:26Private listings, temporary drama or permanent strategy shift?
22:31Um, I think it leads to, uh, permanent shift.
22:37I think that we'll, I think we will get in a world where we'll have fragmented search
22:41in multiple places, but the, the amazing thing that nobody talks about is I can type
22:45something in cloud right now and it literally would earn chat and it would organize the search
22:50for me.
22:50So like, will we get to a layer that's like, Hey, listings are different places, but now
22:55there's a different layer experience up here that doesn't look like a portal looks right
22:59now, but kind of functions and rolls it up in a way, um, you know, and that's, that's
23:04going to be the agent's job.
23:05And I'm, I'm kind of excited about that being the agent's job.
23:07Yeah, absolutely.
23:09Um, one industry that will surprise people by buying deeper into residential real estate.
23:14Insure tech, insure tech, insurance technology.
23:18Uh, it is, I think it's interesting.
23:21They have the data, they have the risk underwriting motive, um, captive consumer.
23:27Like, it's just, I think it's, it's interesting for that business model.
23:30And then they have the book, like, I'm, I'm starting to think less about like who's in
23:33the transaction at the real time, but who builds a book off that business.
23:38So when you think about like an MSR mortgage servicing rights provider, like Mr. Cooper,
23:42or you think about like, uh, progressive, like an insurance company, these, these companies
23:47are built around building books with residual income over long tails of time.
23:51So like all of a sudden I just see that as like looking at the industry saying, Hey, this
23:56is a, this is a lead generator, right?
23:59Like brokerage is a lead generator for these books.
24:02Right.
24:02Anyways.
24:03Final one.
24:04Finish this.
24:04You agree?
24:05You disagree?
24:05Have you heard that before?
24:07I have not heard anything about insurance tech going into it.
24:10And I guess what I think of is prudential going into it, but that was really their financial
24:15services, not their insurance services.
24:16So I, I, yeah, I, no, I haven't heard anything about that.
24:22So that's all news to me.
24:23And I think it's pretty interesting.
24:25You may think I'm an idiot.
24:26So either we get off podcast, like he's an idiot or he's smart or he knows something
24:30I don't know.
24:32I guess trying to figure out like, um, you know, you had mentioned about non-RESPA compliant
24:40companies getting into purchasing residential real estate.
24:44And, um, you know, I think that as a whole is a really interesting idea.
24:49Um, so, so yeah, I mean, I'm, anything's on the table at this point.
24:53I think, I think that, um, the industry is changing and it's, it's changing, not in a
24:59bad way.
25:00I think people get too, too involved in like the minutia.
25:04And so they, they forget the overall, you know, I don't know.
25:09I don't want to say they forget the consumer because they don't, most of these brokerage
25:12companies are not forgetting the consumer in any of this.
25:15Um, but they get kind of too much in the weeds and with the news.
25:20And I think that, um, it's great to be informed, but yeah, I think outside the box, I think there's
25:25a lot going on that we don't even know.
25:27There's a lot of great stuff going on.
25:28And I think that people get too caught up in like the, the buzzy headlines, you know,
25:31and I think, I think, I think we all, um, as humans gravitate towards the conspiracy,
25:37right?
25:37We're like, oh, there's a conspiracy.
25:39It's like, it was really not.
25:41It's like good operators running good businesses.
25:43Sometimes they become competitive.
25:45Sometimes they conflict right a little bit and they have to stand their ground.
25:48And I, like, I like when companies believe in what they're doing and they're willing to
25:52stand their ground over it.
25:53Like they should.
25:53Yeah.
25:54Like, I mean, the worst thing is companies that don't believe in what they're doing and they don't
25:57stand their ground.
25:58You're like, why are you doing it then?
26:00You're just doing it for the paycheck.
26:01Like, I mean, if you're trying to invoke some real change, like you should have some conviction
26:05behind it, you know?
26:06Well, and I agree.
26:07And I think, um, you know, that's why I love kind of the, the leaders who are speaking out
26:14now about how they, you know, defending the way they want to do business.
26:19And they're not the same way at all.
26:21And I, but you know what, they're all really smart business leaders and, you know, so they're
26:29going to figure out the right way for their business to run.
26:32Yeah.
26:33So I, yeah.
26:34Wouldn't it blow your mind, blow your mind that like, wait a minute, what if like all
26:38of them are actually at the core, they're, they're protecting their, their consumer.
26:42They think they feel like they are protecting their consumer.
26:45They they're convicted about their business model or, you know, all these different things.
26:49Like it just, you know, that, that is a reality.
26:52Like these are really smart, great business operators that built amazing businesses.
26:56And, uh, you know, like you don't undercut that, like don't undercut that.
27:00It's like, oh, there's some conspiracy.
27:01Cause if he does this one thing, then there's this thing that blows up.
27:03No, no.
27:04It's like, he really is a, he or she are really like building a business they believe in
27:09and they're convicted.
27:10And that's cool.
27:11Like, I love that because I think we've had years of just kind of like floating along with
27:15no conviction, you know, and, uh, and, and just like operating.
27:19You know?
27:19Yeah.
27:20Well, we do have a lot of UFO stuff going on right now.
27:23So that kind of leads everyone into the conspiracy.
27:26Tracy, are UFOs, are there aliens?
27:27Yes or no?
27:29Um, I don't know.
27:30I'm intrigued by it.
27:31I think they're, I honestly, you know, uh, no, I feel like it's advanced technology that
27:37our government or other governments are testing.
27:41That's my, my opinion of it, but, um, but yeah.
27:46Okay.
27:47So no, there's one behind me.
27:50There's my alien.
27:53So what do you think, Craig?
27:54I'll put you on the spot.
27:56I don't, I don't, no.
27:58I think that if there was, we would have been found.
28:01We would have seen something.
28:01There would have been variations of something here.
28:03I, so I think it's something that's here from this planet.
28:06So anyways, I think that we over sensationalize so many things.
28:09It's just, it's fun.
28:10It's entertainment.
28:10Absolutely.
28:11It's entertainment.
28:11Yeah.
28:12I mean, it's the way things are right now, right?
28:15We sensationalize everything and nobody knows what's really going on at all.
28:19So, um, so yeah, not a good way to live, I guess.
28:25It's fun.
28:26You know, it's fun.
28:28Whatever.
28:29Definitely.
28:29Yeah.
28:30Well, Craig, thanks so much for joining Real Trending.
28:33It's always a pleasure having you on.
28:34Um, so I appreciate it.
28:36No, thank you.
28:37Thank you for having me.
28:38I appreciate it.
Comments