- 5 months ago
Yesterday, it was announced that real estate giant Compass is acquiring another real estate giant: Anywhere Real Estate, which includes Coldwell Banker, Century 21, Corcoran, ERA Real Estate, Better Homes & Gardens Real Estate, and Sotheby’s International Realty.
Today, we’re bringing you a special bonus episode with Tracey and Steve Murray, senior advisor for HousingWire and the founder of RealTrends and RTC Consulting. Steve is an expert on all things mergers and acquisitions and provides us with some interesting insight into the industry implications and ramifications of such a landmark deal.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
The strategic implications of the acquisition
How the deal might face antitrust scrutiny in major markets
The integration challenges, including agent retention and cultural alignment
Potential impacts on Zillow, NAR, and the broader brokerage landscape
Steve’s insights on the future of brokerage competition and consumer trust
Related to this episode:
Compass buys Anywhere Real Estate for a combined 340,000 agents
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/compass-buys-anywhere-real-estate-for-a-combined-340000-agents/
What to know about Anywhere following acquisition by Compass
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/what-to-know-about-anywhere-following-compass-acquisition/
HousingWire | YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXDD_3y3LvU60vac7eki-6Q
More info about HousingWire
https://lnk.bio/housingwire
The RealTrending podcast features conversations with the brightest minds in real estate. Every Monday, brokerage leaders, top agents, team leaders, and industry experts join us to share their secrets to success, trends, and the lessons they’ve learned. Hosted by Tracey Velt and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
Today, we’re bringing you a special bonus episode with Tracey and Steve Murray, senior advisor for HousingWire and the founder of RealTrends and RTC Consulting. Steve is an expert on all things mergers and acquisitions and provides us with some interesting insight into the industry implications and ramifications of such a landmark deal.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
The strategic implications of the acquisition
How the deal might face antitrust scrutiny in major markets
The integration challenges, including agent retention and cultural alignment
Potential impacts on Zillow, NAR, and the broader brokerage landscape
Steve’s insights on the future of brokerage competition and consumer trust
Related to this episode:
Compass buys Anywhere Real Estate for a combined 340,000 agents
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/compass-buys-anywhere-real-estate-for-a-combined-340000-agents/
What to know about Anywhere following acquisition by Compass
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/what-to-know-about-anywhere-following-compass-acquisition/
HousingWire | YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXDD_3y3LvU60vac7eki-6Q
More info about HousingWire
https://lnk.bio/housingwire
The RealTrending podcast features conversations with the brightest minds in real estate. Every Monday, brokerage leaders, top agents, team leaders, and industry experts join us to share their secrets to success, trends, and the lessons they’ve learned. Hosted by Tracey Velt and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
Category
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NewsTranscript
00:00We had some huge breaking news today with Compass announcing the acquisition of Anywhere Real Estate,
00:06which is the company that owns Century 21 Coldwell Banker, Sotheby's, Corcoran, ERA.
00:16I think I got them all.
00:18And so I have today Steve Murray on the podcast to talk about the implications of that for the industry as a whole,
00:25for the companies, where some of the challenges might be, what the regulatory issues could possibly be,
00:32and how it will affect the agents who are part of Compass in Anywhere.
00:39So enjoy the podcast.
00:41Hey, Steve, thanks for joining me on the Real Trending podcast for a special edition
00:46because of the Compass Anywhere acquisition news.
00:51It was a big, big morning this morning in the industry.
00:55Yeah, absolutely.
00:57I mean, you've got number one and two by sales volume this year.
01:00Well, Anywhere advisors, it's not even the entire Anywhere, not the franchise.
01:05Right.
01:05Well, yeah, I mean, I did some analysis looking at 24 data, roughly 415 billion combined volume.
01:18And our data, it would indicate that that's just about 25% of all the sales volume done last year.
01:26Wow, that's amazing.
01:27Yeah.
01:28Yeah.
01:29Yeah.
01:29Only about 7% or so of the transactions.
01:33But that just shows you the concentration of Compass in Anywhere in the higher price metropolitan areas.
01:42Yeah.
01:42How long do you think this has been a discussion?
01:45I know that Ryan Schneider on my podcast, which was months ago, had talked about, you know,
01:51hey, if we are forced to do a private listing network, we will.
01:56And kind of looking back, I'm thinking, well, maybe it was our, you know,
02:00he was in talks with Compass already, knowing that that three-phase marketing plan might be something implemented at their company.
02:10It's hard to say, Tracy.
02:11It truly is.
02:12Sometimes these deals come together in a month or two.
02:15Sometimes it's six or eight months of discussions.
02:19You know, it's really hard.
02:20All it would be is rank speculation for me to think I knew when they started talking.
02:26But let's put it this way, it didn't happen likely within the last week.
02:31Yeah, definitely not.
02:32So how do you feel like it changes the balance of power with other national brokerages like EXP, Keller Williams, Remax?
02:39Or does the fragmented nature of the industry kind of dilute that scale advantage?
02:45I mean, if you're talking 25% of the sales volume, right?
02:49It's a big chunk.
02:52It's a huge chunk of the business.
02:54You know, it's, I mean, you think about that and you think, well, they're going to be the biggest residential brokerage, owned brokerage we've ever seen.
03:09Yeah.
03:10Whether it's transactions or it's volume, far bigger than anything we've ever seen with, as I am doing some homework today,
03:21some major market shares in places like New York, Chicago, San Francisco, where they have, you know, from the data I looked at, well above 30% market share in those three.
03:35Um, and, you know, Robert's stated goal years ago was the top, I think it was either the top 30 markets to have 20% share or the top 30 markets to have 20, 30 and 20, 20 and 30.
03:50But, but, but, but, but, you know, he's got, well, he's got a well over the combination would get him well over 20% in Denver.
03:58I know that can see that data, but there's a lot of other markets where this, as far as owned brokerage doesn't, doesn't get them there.
04:07So, even if they do this, I doubt they're done.
04:12I doubt they're done as well.
04:14Yeah.
04:15Right.
04:15They just keep going.
04:17It does, it does cause, and it did today cause, um, factual knowledge I have, all kinds of phone calls between the other five or six national real estate companies.
04:33Yeah.
04:34I mean, this, this causes everybody to, to reassess their position.
04:40Um, you know, can we do this?
04:43I mean, it's, it's interesting to note.
04:46I had just done an analysis just last week, Thursday of last week of the eight large national publicly held real estate enterprises and looked at their forecasted cash flows for this year against their current market cap as of Friday.
05:01Um, it's interesting to note that anywhere was the lowest price.
05:07They were at three point, I think my numbers were 3.2 times projected 25, 2025 cash flow.
05:17Well, the next, when you go up from there, the next one is remax trading at six.
05:22Hmm.
05:23Wow.
05:24Still relative to all the others, the, the, the median of the eight was like 17 compass was by on Friday about 19.6 and they're doing an all stack deals.
05:41So they're trading a stock price that was trading at 19 times cash flow and buying the shares of a company trading at 3.2.
05:49I mean, that's ideal for the purchaser.
05:51Yeah.
05:52Yeah.
05:52Now, the, the price they paid moved it up to six because it was about double what the price was last Friday for anywhere, which is, which is a very, very good premium.
06:06And anyway.
06:08What do you think about the chances are that this will, um, go through?
06:13I mean, uh, you know, there are antitrust issues, which a lot of people say, that's not really going to be an issue.
06:19They're going to have to divest of some offices and those high market share areas.
06:24Um, but what's your opinion on that?
06:27Well, I said, I've said publicly that, um, we know factually that they had to divest a brokerage in California and some offices in Chicago when they bought at properties at Christie's back in January.
06:42But that was on, that was in the prior administrations, Department of Justice and Federal Trade Commission.
06:51Yeah.
06:52Right now you got new leaders at both of those.
06:55However, I recall reading quite a bit about the individual that was placed in charge of the Department of Justice antitrust division.
07:04And that individual's background did not indicate any great warmth for business, for horizontal combinations in business.
07:17Um, so who's, who's to say, you know, will they compel them to, to reduce their position in New York, Chicago, San Francisco, places like that, where their share is relatively high?
07:30Will they consider that, geez, do we think it's appropriate that they own both Sotheby's and Christie's?
07:41Who knows?
07:42Right.
07:43This administration, from what we can tell, is more friendly to mergers, whether they're vertical or horizontal.
07:50Um, I'm sure it'll get a full Hart-Scott-Rodino examination.
07:59Uh, and I'm sure that, that has nothing to do with the hiring of that very senior level Justice Department attorney on the Compass team.
08:09Yes.
08:09I'm sure it has, I'm sure it's coincidental.
08:14Yes, absolutely.
08:15But that's what you got to do.
08:17You got to hire people who know not only the law, but know the people that are in charge of all this to help navigate all this.
08:24Yeah.
08:24Um.
08:26Before we get to the, the agent impact, because we'll get to that last, I want to talk about the industry impact specifically.
08:32So, like, what is, how significant is the Sotheby's Christie's overlap?
08:38Um, and, you know, is, like you said, it could possibly be looked at, but do you know how, how it is?
08:47No, but I mean, well, I mean, Sotheby's got there first, right?
08:54And they're fairly and widely distributed and cover most of the major markets they would want to cover.
09:01Yeah.
09:02Christie's is just getting started.
09:05I mean, Sotheby's has certainly has some room to grow, but mainly my view is for Sotheby's, it's a lot of organic growth.
09:14Yeah.
09:15Right.
09:16Christie's, there is, there's a ton of opportunity for Christie's to now go talk to other luxury brokerage firms.
09:27Um, and they have a lot of upside opportunity and just market growth.
09:34Yeah.
09:35Yeah.
09:35Yeah.
09:36They do.
09:37Um, how do you differentiate those two from each other?
09:41I'll leave that to other people.
09:42I, you know, there, there's, and I'm sure that I'm sure they can find a way and to the consuming public, there'll be two different brokerages.
09:52Right.
09:53Yeah.
09:54They will be.
09:54Uh, so I, I could see that, that becoming, uh, you know, uh, a, a very, very good brand for them.
10:01Uh, then the question then becomes, well, then where does Corcoran fit into that?
10:06Yeah.
10:07And again, that's above my pay grade, how you, how you do those things.
10:12Corcoran always claimed that they're not the luxury brand of anywhere, that they're kind of, uh, different.
10:20I can't remember how they described themselves, but they definitely tried to differentiate themselves from the Sotheby's brand.
10:27I know that.
10:28Yeah.
10:29Like I said, that I'll leave, there are a lot of smart people that know, I think pretty well know what they need to do there.
10:35I'll leave that to them.
10:37Yeah.
10:38Uh, what about the impact on regionals and independence?
10:42You know, other than acquisitions, the national companies have not outcompeted with the, the privately owned brokerage firms, whether they're independent or under a franchise banner.
11:02Yeah.
11:02And we have all the data we need to look at to support that.
11:07It's not that they're lagging far behind, but the truth is, whether we talk about five, 10, 15, 20, 25 years back, the evidence is overwhelming that operating a brokerage company.
11:21It comes down to my favorite three things, which is, you have to recruit great talent.
11:28You have to develop the talent.
11:30You have to spend less money than you have coming in.
11:32Yeah.
11:33And the, the, the, once a compass or a anywhere buys a brokerage company, it doesn't magically become better at those three things.
11:44Yeah.
11:45Yeah.
11:46It doesn't.
11:46And the, and the proof is, you know, the proof is fairly strong in that regard.
11:52So I think the privately owned brokerage firm, uh, who by its mere design can be more flexible and more nimble can compete just fine.
12:04Yeah.
12:05As I also caution people, however, it means that you actually have to act more flexible and more nimble.
12:11But, um, I mean, you, you, you stop and think about this for a minute and I'm just, these are round numbers.
12:29I'm sure I'm off by some hundreds of millions along the way, but between anywhere and Berkshire Hathaway and compass,
12:37they have now probably deployed $5 billion buying brokerage companies since 1997.
12:47Yeah.
12:48Roughly it's in that ballpark.
12:50And yet, if we look at combining anywhere and compass and put in Berkshire Hathaway.
12:59It, it, it, it, it's still, there's still not more than 30% of the sales volume and 11 or 12% of the transactions in the country.
13:11Yeah.
13:12That's crazy.
13:12I mean, think, I mean, think about that.
13:14Yeah.
13:14So, so, so, and, and how much money, you know, and I mean, it's acquisitions is, is a, it can be a really effective tool to grow,
13:25but done on a big grand scale, it hasn't shown that, that it actually, um, that, that such firms that are acquired
13:40then expedite their growth because of the capital they have access to.
13:44Yeah.
13:46Um, so what do you think of, you had talked about, um, in, in an article that Brookley Hahn, one of our senior real estate reporters, um, wrote that it's one of the most difficult challenges any national broker has ever faced.
13:59And that's the integration.
14:00So what do you think makes this integration uniquely complex compared to past kind of large brokerage mergers?
14:07Well, first, I mean, not tongue in cheek and, and my, my, uh, Compass spent a whole bunch of years recruiting aggressively against Caldwell Banker and Sotheby's brokerage firms.
14:24Yes.
14:25And now we're all going to be nice friends.
14:28I mean, to think that there's no bruised feelings, I mean, that's, but you know what, these men and women are grownups.
14:35I've talked to several of them today and they're going to need to vent, but then they got to go back to running their companies, right?
14:43It is what it is, so to speak.
14:45Um, what I do know from my experience is that when you're acquiring another brokerage company and, and, and, and Robert Refkin and his whole senior team are well aware of this, they've said so.
15:02And, and, and I know they get it, um, there's two, there's two things everybody says, well, you got to make sure the agents of the acquired firm know, you have to know two things.
15:15You have to know, how is it going to benefit them?
15:18Right.
15:19But the second thing that's often overlooked is, well, how are they going to feel?
15:25Now, here's the big thing.
15:26A lot of people overlook.
15:28How about your people?
15:29Well, how does this benefit a company, compass agent?
15:36Yeah.
15:36It's companies spending four and a half billion dollars to buy their, by the way, in many markets, their biggest competitors are now going to be part of the family.
15:46Right.
15:46Okay.
15:47So what's competing against the same company?
15:49Right.
15:49So, so my agents, I have to, and I've said this hundreds of times, you got to make sure and tell your own agents.
15:57How does this benefit them?
16:00I'm confident, uh, Mr. Refkin and his team are, are figuring out how they're going to address it.
16:06The second part is very tough.
16:07I mean, how do they feel?
16:10Yeah.
16:11And I can't answer that question, but let's just put it this way.
16:15There'll be a fair number of agents, employees, managers who may conclude this is not what they signed up for.
16:24My experience, my experience has been, and I've sold a lot of, as you know, sold over 900 brokerage companies of all shapes and sizes and brands.
16:32And it, you sometimes cannot solve the angst of agents or staff by just a list of the benefits and how it will help them and improve their business, improve their careers.
16:47That's all hugely important.
16:49But some people just, you know, I signed up for this, but now this doesn't feel like this anymore.
16:56Yeah.
16:58And I mean, I think, uh, Compass had done a really good job of creating this, like, this kind of like unique culture.
17:10We're Compass, we're edgy and we're dynamite marketing and dynamite technology.
17:16I mean, the tech platform, is that now going to be available to Sotheby's and Cabo Banker?
17:24Or, or, or, oh, by the way, are they going to withhold it?
17:27Yeah.
17:28Well, that was my question because they're running as, they're going to continue, it sounds like, running as separate entities.
17:34And, you know, Compass has kind of a centralized culture, tech driven, where anywhere is multi-brand franchise heavy structure.
17:41How do they reconcile both of those?
17:43Well, again, I am, I've gotten to know, uh, Robert Refkin fairly well.
17:51He's a very bright guy.
17:53I'm sure they have already had some fairly in-depth discussions about all this stuff inside.
17:59I'm sure they have.
18:01Yeah.
18:01And they'll get along, they'll get around to telling the rest of us when they think the time is right.
18:07And what do you think?
18:07But those are just, I'm just throwing out, those are all these big questions that none of us know the answers to.
18:13There will be challenges that they will face because if you have this superior tech platform and data is, is, is the name of the game in the future.
18:24Well, wouldn't you want all that data being aggregated on a platform for AI and other analytic tools?
18:30Yeah.
18:31Yeah.
18:31I think so.
18:32But how do you, I mean, it's, these are all just leadership challenges.
18:41Yes.
18:41And where do you think Ryan Schneider fits into all of this?
18:45Um, I know they haven't announced any type of, you know, and they won't, um, but is it something?
18:51And he may, he, I'm, I have no idea, but oftentimes in these cases, he will, he will be there, a powerful, uh, important person in the transition.
19:07Um, but that he, he, he may stay on the board and he will be very important through a transition period.
19:17And then, you know, he may depart for some, some other opportunity.
19:23Yeah.
19:24What about the debt that anywhere carries?
19:27I know there's been some conversations about what a mistake it is for compass to take on that debt and it's a losing battle and blah, blah, blah.
19:35Well, what's your opinion on that?
19:37Well, it's, it's, it's not a problem.
19:40Let me, uh, so I looked at, again, projected both mine and the company's own projected cashflow for this year.
19:48Yeah.
19:49Compass and anywhere combined is roughly $500 million.
19:54Okay.
19:54That's more than adequate to handle debt service.
19:58Yeah.
19:58Yeah.
19:59Once they get it all done sometime next year and the market improves marginally, um, it'll probably be a little higher than that.
20:09Once they fully integrate these companies and execute on synergistic strategies, I could see the combined companies throwing off $800 to a billion dollars a year.
20:22In which case it really is no issue.
20:26Right.
20:26But, but even currently it won't be an issue.
20:29Okay.
20:30It won't.
20:31It, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, and it's just not a big issue for their, given the cash flows of these two enterprises.
20:39What do you think this means for, um, you know, Zillow and NAR, um, who compasses kind of been battling with over their three phase marketing plan and delayed listings and, and all of that, where I assume anywhere agents will now take on.
20:57Um, maybe we don't even know, but maybe take on that same marketing.
21:03I don't, you know, look fully half, more than half of anywhere's business is with franchise brokers.
21:13Compass can't dictate exclusive listings to franchise brokers.
21:18Right.
21:18Now those are privately owned business people.
21:22Um, they can for the company owned their employees and, you know, report up.
21:27Um, I don't know what they'll do.
21:29I would imagine that some of that has to take a backseat now to focus on getting this transaction completed, getting integration done and focus on retaining as, as many as they possibly can of the agents and staff of these, of these companies.
21:47Right.
21:49I mean, I, that would be my, I mean, if, if I'm in that role, I don't want to take on NAR and Zillow at the same time I'm trying to get this done.
21:58I can come back to that at a later time.
22:00Yeah.
22:00I don't think they'll walk away from it or drop the suit or not continue to press for it, but I don't think it'll be a top priority for them because this has got to be a priority.
22:11Yeah.
22:11Yeah.
22:12There's only so many hours in the day.
22:14Well, and what about the Anywhere's, um, title relocation insurance businesses?
22:19How does that, um, those revenue streams help compass?
22:24Well, I mean, um, I could be mistaken, but I think they have the same mortgage joint venture partner.
22:32Oh, okay.
22:33Guaranteed rate.
22:34I think that's the case.
22:36Yeah.
22:36Uh, I mean, um, Anywhere owns one of the largest relocation management companies in the country.
22:43Yep.
22:43And, you know, that obviously is a great asset for them as far as title insurance.
22:50I mean, compass has acquired numerous title insurance companies and, and compass has, and so is Anywhere.
22:58I think there are different models, but you know, they can rationalize that.
23:02But look, I mean, if suddenly you wake up two years from now, you got a company that's doing 25% of the volume, 30% of the volume in the, in the industry, and they're generating 700 million to a billion dollars in free cash flow.
23:19There's all kinds of businesses they can, they can afford to acquire.
23:24Yeah.
23:24I mean, title or mortgage, they could, you know, you can get into the mortgage banking, buy a full mortgage bank.
23:31If you wanted to, they'll have the, they'll have the capital to do that.
23:35Um, and yeah, you know, and, and then there's, you know, I mean, Anywhere is, is, is, um, it, many of their brands are very, very strong overseas.
23:51Yeah.
23:51Globally.
23:52Yeah.
23:52A compass is not there yet.
23:54Um, I mean, acquiring Anywhere, I mean, um, they, they are, they have, they have a very strong Sotheby's, um, brand in Canada, for instance.
24:10I, last I knew, in parts of Asia, ERA is a very strong brand and parts of Europe it is.
24:17Yeah.
24:17And there's a lot of growth to be had, uh, globally for this enterprise and they'll have enormous capital resources to achieve that.
24:29Yeah.
24:30Yeah.
24:30So let's say this all, this goes through, um, they retain, you know, agents, they, they work through all of that.
24:38How do you see this changing the brokerage landscape in the next five years?
24:43You know, we've already addressed the exclusive listings issue, not putting that off to the side.
24:50Um, I said this earlier, competition will still be rampant and there will be new models popping up that we said, well, wait a minute.
25:03How are they doing that?
25:07Yeah.
25:07Could there, could there be another compass?
25:10Could somebody says, well, look what they achieved.
25:12Let's raise a billion and a half dollars and go out and buy really good brokers, agents, and teams.
25:18Yeah.
25:19Let's, you know, maybe, maybe the next iteration is somebody goes out and says, you know what we need to do?
25:26Let's buy a Mark Spain and just help him scale a team up or Jason Mitchell group.
25:35Just, I mean, I've lived too long in this industry.
25:39We all thought that we'd reached a there, there, and it turns out there is no there, there.
25:43There's always new ways of doing brokerage, uh, consumers.
25:49Consumers, the foundation of our industry is buyers and sellers with all of the travails of the last few years.
25:58Consumers, 90 or 90% or more of consumers still think it's smart to use an agent.
26:03Yeah.
26:05And, and as long as that's the case, you know, I saw one the other day, somebody said, well, you know, that article you and I chatted briefly about in HW.
26:16And the guy who said, well, Redfin proved that.
26:19I said, Redfin proved there's no market for a discount brokerage company with employee agents.
26:24Yeah.
26:25And that's about all they proved.
26:27And that a company spending enough money can get 50 million unique visitors a month.
26:32Good for them.
26:32There were some strength to Redfin, but everybody, but that, that, that model failed.
26:40Yeah.
26:41Yeah.
26:41It failed.
26:42Uh, there'll be other attempts like that.
26:44Trust me that there'll be somebody, another attempt at that simply trying the, um, I don't know.
26:50Yeah.
26:50They're discount broker too.
26:51Yes.
26:52It's, it's like, I thought before when Redfin came, I said, didn't you see what happened to zip realty?
26:58But obviously they thought they could, what, do the same thing, do it better.
27:02And the outcome would be better.
27:03I don't know.
27:04Didn't work.
27:04Um, but, but, but, you know, it's, you figure the team at Compass and, and the people that, uh, anywhere, the brand presidents, the, the operating people at anywhere, uh, advisors, you know, they're all, I know a lot of them.
27:24There's very good people there.
27:26They get through the next 12 months, get it done, get it integrated.
27:30They'll, that'll be continuing work.
27:33Yes.
27:34Meanwhile, they'll be looking to say, okay, how can we, what can we do with our scale?
27:41And, um, and I can't, I mean, that's beyond my imagination, but there are some really good people that'll come up some good ideas.
27:51I'm confident.
27:52Yeah.
27:53So I said, that was my last question, but I do want to end this on just, um, you know, what, what do you have to say for the competitors who are reeling at this news and, and concerned about it?
28:05Um, what is their next step and, and what, what are, you know, what's your advice for them?
28:11First of all, I didn't talk to any of them that are reeling.
28:15Good.
28:16Not a one.
28:17And I talked to several today.
28:20Okay.
28:20Anytime you have something like this, this industry more takes the position.
28:26This is a great time to recruit agents and staff.
28:30No, it is.
28:31It's the way.
28:32Well, I've seen one broker already doing it.
28:35So yes.
28:36I mean, no, I mean, it is, it's the way of the industry.
28:38Well, you're going to want to be part of that.
28:41Are you going to want to be part of that?
28:42You're going to be run by those guys.
28:44It's, it's, it's just, but they are thinking, listen, like I said earlier,
28:49there's a lot of phone calls going around between Wall Street, investment banking firms,
28:55private equity firms, some of the remaining big national publicly held companies, some
29:01of the privately held companies.
29:03Everybody's like digging in to say, okay, is there an opportunity here?
29:08Has this created a, an opportunity and the independent brokers, or I say the privately owned brokers
29:15I talked to today, they're all thinking, well, it gives me a different opportunity because
29:22to recruit good people.
29:25Well, because as I said in an article, I think it's, I may have given an interview to somebody.
29:32And I said, agents in the industry deal with the law of Newtonian gravity.
29:39Agents tend to stay, tend to be at rest when they're at rest, and they tend to stay in motion
29:44when they're in motion.
29:45And now this creates kind of at least a little motion.
29:51Yeah.
29:52And it happens in every acquisition, by the way, it's not unique to this.
29:56Right.
29:56So that's what most, mostly what I heard from their competitors day, and that was both national
30:01and local.
30:02Yeah.
30:03Great.
30:03And it's been, it's been that way for all the years I've been in the industry.
30:08Yeah.
30:08Well, Steve, I know you've been busy fielding calls today.
30:13Yeah.
30:13Thanks so much for jumping on Real Trending with me.
30:16I appreciate it.
30:17Tracy, anytime you ask, I'll be there.
30:20Thanks.
30:38Thanks.
30:39Thanks.
31:08Thanks.
31:13Thanks.
31:32Yeah.
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