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ESPN NBA Insider Bobby Marks shared an analytics stat over the weekend that Jaylen Brown is the 7th best player on the Celtics. He joined the show to discuss the reaction.
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00:00Bobby Marks is the NBA front office insider for ESPN.
00:05So, Bobby, did you know when you said that that you would be on the other end of the wrath
00:11of what Jalen Brown?
00:12I didn't. And I said, like, you know, we live in this day and age of 19-second clips.
00:18I was like, what happened to the other four minutes when I was praising him and I was defending him
00:22and doing all that and everything that came with it?
00:26No, I did not think I did not have my bingo card on Saturday afternoon that I would that Jalen
00:33Brown would be awfully upset with something I said.
00:36And to the point where my 20 year old had I'm out in L.A. for free agency.
00:41My 20 year old called me and said, Dad, you just need to go out for a walk in the
00:48hotel room and just go.
00:49Well, and I said, like, listen, I and I and I said it on TV on Friday and we did
00:55a segment today on TV.
00:56Like, I am a huge Jalen Brown fan. Like, listen, if I was in a front office, I'd be looking
01:00to trade for him.
01:01And but there is I'm telling you, it's a crazy, it's a crazy, crazy process where there's like a faction
01:07of people.
01:08And I don't know why that are, you know, built into the analytics and the on court numbers.
01:14And we even put up a we put up a graphic today and showed that I guess he had the
01:19seventh best net rating on his on the roster.
01:21So, like, I mean, listen, I grew up in the 90s getting into this league.
01:25And I, as I said, I am more of an eye test.
01:27I do think there's a role for analytics and stats and everything that comes with it and stuff like that.
01:32But I do think there are some teams out there that have probably taken us a little bit too far.
01:37And I think if you talk to 20 front offices, they'll probably give you 20 different opinions on a guy
01:42who finished sixth in the NBA and MVP voting as an NBA champ.
01:46And and has the most I think he's got the most wins.
01:50I don't even know, last five or six or since he's gotten into the NBA.
01:53So, yeah, it's I think we've calmed down that argument for a little bit.
01:58That certainly picked up a lot on on Saturday.
02:01Yeah, it was kind of funny because, like, people got mad at you when it wasn't even what you said.
02:06It was you reporting stations or heard.
02:09Yeah, right.
02:10But but but the one thing I mean, you briefly mentioned it, but because the one thing is interesting is
02:16when you talk to this, you know, these people who are big on analytics.
02:20Numbers.
02:21Yeah.
02:21Numbers.
02:22Funny.
02:22I said I joke this.
02:23Now we call it strategy like we call it like we've gotten away from analytics and now we've we've we've
02:28given it a fancy name and everything.
02:30It's called strategy now.
02:31Ah, yes, yes.
02:33Whatever you call it.
02:34It's still confusing to me.
02:36So I have people who are smarter with that stuff.
02:39I trust their I trust their word on this.
02:41But I do I would like to know, like when when these people you spoke with said that he would
02:48be the seventh best player on the team.
02:50Was it what was the you mentioned net rating?
02:53Was there anything else that they used to justify that comment?
02:57Any other stat?
02:58Sure.
02:58I mean, like, yeah, I mean, I think that rating came in play is plus minus.
03:02It's, you know, certainly I think he was a minus 10 plus minus one on the court and a minus
03:08six when he was off.
03:09He's the last four years.
03:10He's got, you know, a negative a negative net rating the last four years.
03:16And certainly that probably includes them winning, winning it, winning a championship.
03:21And I said, like, the pushback on me is that what it doesn't tell you is sometimes who he's on
03:26the court with.
03:27Right.
03:27Who else is out there?
03:28What the time of, you know, is it garbage time down the down the stretch and everything like that?
03:33So I think you have to be I think you have to be awfully, awfully careful as far as when
03:39you're evaluating players and using that as kind of a crutch.
03:43And listen, he makes, as you guys know, he has, you know, three years, $183 million on us.
03:49He's a big number, but it's a big number for a guy that, you know, as I said, is a
03:53top 10 player.
03:55How many GMs in the league, Bobby, do you think are heavy strategy guys, heavy analytics guys?
04:00They would use that stuff to decide what they're doing?
04:02Yeah.
04:02I mean, we're in a little bit of a different, you know, I grew up with the old school, you
04:06know, the former players.
04:07You know, I grew up, Will Threude was my mentor when I got into the league and stuff like that.
04:11And he, you know, certainly grew up in a different era.
04:13But I do think we're in a new wave of, you know, of younger executives.
04:18I think the analytics, the strategy departments have grown significantly, where some teams are going five, six deep, maybe even
04:26more.
04:26So it's almost like a little bit of a, I guess, a baseball approach where we went money ball for
04:31a long time.
04:31And I think that's kind of crept into the NBA and everything like that.
04:36So I think there's split.
04:38I don't know what the number would be and everything like that.
04:41But there are a fair amount of people who look at, you know, look at kind of that compared to
04:46what the guy actually has done on the court.
04:49So would you be open, Bobby, to saying who did say that about Jalen?
04:54No, I can't.
04:55I can't.
04:56It's like me, like, you know, we have sources.
04:58I'm not doing that.
04:59I don't want that.
05:00I don't want the delve of – and listen, and it wasn't – I'll tell you, it wasn't – you
05:06know, that was the one comment to that.
05:07But I've talked to team executives over the weekend.
05:10Like, I'm telling you, and I don't agree with it.
05:13There is some mixed opinions as far as how teams view Jalen.
05:18And I – for the record, I am not in that group there.
05:24Now, Bobby, when they – these people you spoke with, was it just because of the analytics or was there
05:29something also about some of the off-court things?
05:32Yeah.
05:32Because we've talked a lot about that.
05:33Yeah, I don't – no, that wasn't brought up.
05:35That wasn't brought up and everything like that.
05:37You know, listen, I grew – I had Billy King as my boss when I was in – when I
05:43was in Brooklyn for, I guess, three or four years Billy was there.
05:46And he had Allen Iverson, and I'm not saying Jalen Brown is in the conversation as Allen Iverson, all right?
05:50I'm not saying that.
05:51But I would say, like, the pushback on, you know, whether it be streaming or some of the comments would
05:56be like, listen, if a guy is an MVP candidate, you deal with some of the other things that maybe
06:01come along with it and stuff like that.
06:03You know, if he was a – you know, end of the bench – or end of the bench, you
06:07know, 14, 15, man, maybe you look at it a little bit differently here.
06:10But, no, I didn't get pushed back as far as, you know, some of the things out there.
06:16You know, I know – you know, we know Jalen Brown.
06:18You guys have covered him for – you know, listen, he's outspoken, and he'll say what's on his mind, and
06:23sometimes it's great.
06:24Sometimes it's – you know, you'd probably ask him not to and everything.
06:28I saw his dad went after Perk over the weekend too, so I'm glad I wasn't the only one who
06:32–
06:33We got a lot of action these days around here.
06:35Yeah, so – but, yeah, I mean, listen, I don't think – I would think – I would hope not
06:40because I've never seen his name in legal stuff or anything like that.
06:46I mean, like, there's – you know, so from that, I don't think so.
06:49Bobby, so we just had the news break that John Moran is going to go to Portland, which is one
06:53of those potential landing spots we've heard about for Jalen.
06:56How do you see that as a fit for a Brown trade?
06:59Yeah, it's interesting.
07:00Like I always say, there's always a part – like two, three, and four to deals.
07:04You know, there's the initial trade.
07:06They got a lot of guards there, guys.
07:07You know, you look at their roster.
07:09I mean, you've got – you've got Ja, you've got Drew Holiday, you've got Dame coming back,
07:15and you've got Scoot Henderson and Shaden Sharp.
07:18So, like, you're not going to be able to fit all that.
07:21There was no picks involved and everything like that.
07:24So I would think – you know, new ownership is always a wild card just because of what they're trying
07:30to do and everything.
07:31So they've got to draft assets if they, you know, if they want to do something.
07:37I think the interesting thing is, like, you know, Boston doesn't have to trade them.
07:41You know, I think if they feel like the relationship is, you know, they can – you know, salvageable.
07:46I don't know if it's gotten to that point.
07:48Don't do something that where you're getting, you know, 50 cents on the dollar.
07:51You know, you can always take your – you know, take your cards off the table and walk away
07:55and figure out maybe just – you do something maybe if it's next year or not.
07:59Because, you know, if it's draft picks or players and stuff like that,
08:03you're never – you're not going to get what you would have been able to get in the honest deal.
08:06Like, that's not coming your way.
08:08So I do think it will be interesting how this develops over the next couple days if nothing materializes
08:13and you just basically kind of, you know, punt towards next year.
08:16Well, Bobby, from the executives that you've spoken with, how aggressive are the Celtics right now
08:21in trying to trade Jalen Brown?
08:23Aggressive.
08:24Yeah, listen, they're not just taking calls.
08:26They're putting calls out there and everything.
08:28So, yeah, I would say aggressive and really just looking like, hey, you know, make an offer.
08:34You know, put something on the board.
08:36Let's make something that makes sense and everything.
08:38And if it makes sense for us, we'll go down that road.
08:41And, you know, they haven't gone down that road as of right now.
08:45If you had to – just from a feel that you have, if you had to put a percentage on
08:50how confident you are
08:52that Jalen Brown is going to be traded, what would that percentage be?
08:56If you had asked me Friday, I would have said I thought there was probably an 85% chance that
09:03he would.
09:04But if you ask me on Monday – it's Monday, right?
09:08Yes.
09:10I would say I would probably slip that and probably say there would be more of an 85% chance
09:17that he won't.
09:18Wow.
09:19Is it because they're not getting what they're asking for, the Celtics?
09:22I just think there's nothing out there that make – and that could change a lot.
09:27It really could.
09:28But I just think there's nothing out there that makes – to my knowledge, and I've talked with, you know,
09:35with, you know, Shams and Brian and, you know, certainly everybody who's in tune with everything.
09:40There's just nothing – there's nothing there that would be worthy of trading that, you know, top-ten player in
09:46the NBA.
09:46Did the Celtics incorrectly judge the market for Jalen Brown?
09:51I don't think – I think – no.
09:52Listen, Brad and Mike and that group and Joe, they're smart.
09:56They knew, like, once they engaged with Milwaukee regarding Giannis, they knew that there was going to have to be
10:04a fallout as far as with Jalen's name being out there and everything like that.
10:11So, I mean, anytime you can go out and trade for Giannis, you do it, and it would have to
10:15have cost Jalen and everything like that.
10:17So I don't think they've misjudged the market and everything like that.
10:21But I just think the market has been pretty cool.
10:26Wow.
10:26Well, Bobby Marks, great stuff.
10:28And, yeah, just take a weekend off of social – or a couple more days off social media.
10:34You know, it'll all blow over.
10:36There's always one summer where I piss off somebody, whether it be an owner or a player.
10:40This summer was the player, I guess.
10:42Better Jalen than his dad from where I'm sitting.
10:44Oh, yeah, I know.
10:45I'm glad.
10:46I heard the dad interview and stuff.
10:48I'm glad I did not – my two colleagues, Stephen A. and Perk, were caught in the crossfires there.
10:54So I'm glad I was not in that – in part of that group.
10:58Oh, well, Stephen A.'s loving it.
10:59I mean, anytime you get, like, an athlete, like, to say – like, to just validate what you're saying.
11:04However, he did – he did defend him on Saturday afternoon when all that came out and stuff like that.
11:11So he did say some positive things about him.
11:13Oh, good.
11:14Well, good.
11:14As I said, I just – I love how – whenever Jalen Brown says anything about Stephen A.,
11:20you're going to hear Stephen A. do 20 minutes on one podcast, 10 minutes on first take,
11:2530 minutes on the other podcast.
11:27I got him with 14 podcasts.
11:29And it's just – you know that he loves it, which I would do if I was him.
11:32I was like, hell, yeah, I'm being validated.
11:33This is great.
11:35Yeah.
11:35All right.
11:36Well, Bobby, great stuff.
11:37And thanks for coming on with us.
11:38We'll have you on.
11:39Thanks, bud.
11:39Thanks.
11:40Sounds good, guys.
11:40Take care.
11:41Thanks.
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