00:00Big offseason for the Cavaliers, who got swept by the NBA champion New York Knicks in the conference finals.
00:07What's it going to take for them to climb that mountain?
00:10What can the Cavaliers learn from the Knicks raising the Larry O'Brien trophy?
00:17And I don't know, is there a big old splash on the way this offseason?
00:21To answer that question and more, let's head on out to the Wise Heart Right.
00:25We make a right call, Kyle Wright Hotline.
00:27Let's welcome in Chris Fedor, the outstanding beat writer for Cleveland.com, the Plain Dealer.
00:32Also, listen to him on the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, and he's kind enough to join us.
00:39Chris, thanks so much for the time, my friend.
00:42You got it, guys. How are you doing?
00:43What's up, buddy?
00:44Doing good. Let's start here.
00:45New York Knicks, Mike Brown and Jalen Brunson and the gang raising the Larry O'Brien trophy.
00:50Jofi, what can the Cavaliers learn from that whole experience of getting swept in the conference finals
00:57and watching the team that used the brooms go on and win the whole thing?
01:02I think the thing that they should learn is that they're just not on that level.
01:07There's a phrase that I like to use all the time when talking about sports.
01:10There are levels to this, right?
01:12There's levels to quarterback play.
01:14There's levels to greatness.
01:16There's levels to championship-level teams.
01:19And I think the Cavs have to understand that they're not on the level of the New York Knicks.
01:24They're not on the level of the San Antonio Spurs.
01:26They're far away, and they need to do things to get themselves closer
01:31because those teams aren't going to come back to the pack.
01:35It's up to the rest of the pack, whether it's Cleveland, Indiana, Boston,
01:39whoever it may be that you're talking about, to try and get closer to them and get on their level.
01:45So I think the Cavs should have had an understanding watching the Knicks,
01:49seeing how great they were, seeing how connected they were, seeing how versatile they were,
01:54seeing the different styles that they were able to play.
01:57All of those things should resonate with the Cavs, and they should take away,
02:02hey, we're not on their level, and we have to do things this offseason to get on that level.
02:07Is there anything that Donovan Mitchell could take from watching Jalen Brunson this season, Chris?
02:14No, because it's like you can't copy and paste, right?
02:16Donovan's got to be Donovan.
02:18Jalen Brunson's going to be Jalen Brunson.
02:20Shea Gildas-Alexander's going to be Shea Gildas-Alexander.
02:23Wemby's going to be Wemby.
02:24I just don't think you can look at it and say, okay, this guy had this historic run
02:29throughout the course of the playoffs, and it culminated in an NBA championship.
02:34Now let me change my style.
02:35Let me duplicate the things that he does.
02:37I think if there's one thing that Donovan can add to his game that some of those elite players do
02:45have,
02:46and it shows up every time you talk about any kind of playoff run,
02:50I do think Donovan needs to work on an in-between game.
02:54Jalen Brunson was able to cook in the mid-range.
02:57Jalen Brunson was able to get into the post.
03:00Shea Gildas-Alexander was able to get to that dribble pull-up.
03:03Look, in the NBA playoffs, when you're playing against elite teams
03:08and you're playing against high-quality defenses that are there to try and take away the things that you want
03:15to do most,
03:16you have to find a counter to that, right?
03:18And Donovan, obviously, he has that over-move that turns into a floater.
03:23He can finish at the rim and he can shoot threes,
03:26but he just doesn't have a reliable enough in-between game that he trusts enough.
03:31So I think if we're talking about his next step as a player, his evolution to breaking free from the
03:38stranglehold of a Sar Thompson
03:40like he had to deal with in the Detroit series or Jacoby Walter when playing against the Toronto Raptors or
03:47Scotty Barnes,
03:47those guys are long, they're athletic, they're probably going to be just as quick as him.
03:53So what can he do to combat some of the ways that they're going to play against him
03:58with that level of physicality, that level of tenacity, that level of length and athleticism?
04:03And it's the things that Jalen Brunson was able to do against bigger guys against him.
04:08It's the things that Shea Gildas-Alexander is able to do against multiple defenders.
04:12And you've got to find a way to get more reliable and more comfortable in the mid-range
04:20when teams are trying to take away the things that you ultimately want to do the most,
04:25which Donovan either wants to get to the rim or he wants to shoot threes.
04:30Chris, sticking with Donovan here for a moment,
04:33obviously there's some decisions that have to be made on both sides of this thing.
04:39Donovan's perspective, does he want to do the extension this offseason?
04:42Does he want to wait until next year when he can really add to the value of the contract
04:50and then do the extension?
04:52If he doesn't do it this offseason, the questions about his commitment creep in and things like that.
04:58Where do things stand with Donovan right now?
05:03And I guess there's a bigger question to be asked about the dollars involved if he does wait.
05:09If I remember correctly, he'd be pushing $68 million to $70 million in average value.
05:14Am I right about that?
05:16So here's the thing.
05:17I think if Donovan had a pure financial advisor,
05:21just somebody who was telling him,
05:23here's what you should do from a financial standpoint with your contract this offseason versus next offseason,
05:30that financial advisor would say wait.
05:32Because he can make more next offseason.
05:36He can make more in terms of years.
05:38He can make more in terms of overall salary.
05:41And he can also get some perks attached to his contract, including a no trade clause.
05:46So there are benefits to Donovan not signing an extension with the Cavs this offseason.
05:53And I'm not going to put words in his mouth.
05:55He's a very savvy person.
05:56He understands how to handle these things in the media.
05:59And when these questions continue to come, he continued to answer them the same kind of way.
06:05But I'm reading that as Donovan is preparing this fan base for him not signing this contract extension.
06:12Because I think he understands the benefits of waiting.
06:15And I think he's letting it be known how much he wants to be here in Cleveland.
06:20He's letting it be known how much he believes in this organization.
06:24He's letting it be known that he's not looking to go elsewhere.
06:28And all of that kind of stuff that has come out either in his interview with Anscape
06:32or immediately after losing against the Knicks or every single time he talks about his love for Cleveland,
06:39I think he's laying the groundwork to bypass this contract extension from the Cavs and try and cash in next
06:48offseason.
06:49But I don't think that that means that he doesn't believe in this group.
06:53I don't think that that means that he wants out.
06:56I don't think that that means that he's starting to look at other possibilities as his future destination.
07:02I think he's just looking at this from a financial standpoint and what's best for him.
07:08And getting a no-trade clause and getting a five-year, $350 million contract is really, really enticing for somebody
07:16like Donovan.
07:17And here's the other thing.
07:18There's always the other side of it of, OK, if you turn down the contract extension, what is the level
07:24of risk attached to that?
07:26You could get injured.
07:28Your career could go a different kind of way.
07:31You know, maybe you don't have the year where you're in the all-NBA conversation or something like that.
07:36Well, Donovan has protection from all of that because he has a player option attached to his contract for next
07:43offseason.
07:44So if everything goes the worst case possible for Donovan, then he just opts into his contract and then he
07:50rebuilds his value that kind of way.
07:53So the downside that sometimes comes with turning down such a huge contract, it just doesn't exist to the same
08:00level for somebody like Donovan.
08:02Not to put you on the spot, Chris, but when you're talking about a player potentially being in the upper
08:0960s to $70 million per year,
08:12and we obviously know his value to the Cavaliers, I certainly understand that.
08:17But from just the roster-building, team-building perspective, that seems like that's a pretty big pill for the Cavaliers
08:25to swallow.
08:27I would agree with that, but I would turn it around and say, if you're not paying Donovan Mitchell that
08:32kind of money, who are you paying that kind of money to?
08:35And can you replace Donovan Mitchell?
08:38Because that's the thing.
08:39It took them so many assets and so many years following LeBron James leaving for Los Angeles to get that
08:46kind of player.
08:46A franchise focal point, somebody that is going to invest in the community and be an ambassador for this region
08:54the way that Donovan Mitchell has.
08:56So if you're going to commit to somebody, it's him.
09:01It's him the person and it's him the player because you just don't have a way to replace him.
09:07And I don't think that we can take it for granted.
09:09The Cavs have not won a championship with Donovan Mitchell.
09:12The Cavs have not gotten to the NBA Finals with Donovan Mitchell.
09:15We understand that.
09:17And there are legitimate questions about whether he can be the best player on a championship team, right?
09:23Those questions have to be asked internally.
09:26You're not doing your job if you're not asking those questions.
09:30But we can't take for granted what Donovan has brought to this organization.
09:35The level of professionalism, the level of stability, the culture.
09:40This team was not here.
09:43They were in a dark, dark place before Donovan got here.
09:46And maybe they would have gotten out of the rebuild.
09:48Maybe they would have gotten out of basketball purgatory.
09:51But there's no guarantee that they would have.
09:54350 win seasons.
09:55Four straight playoff appearances.
09:58You can't just assume that somebody else is going to have that kind of impact that Donovan has had, both
10:04on the floor and off the floor.
10:06And you can't just assume that if Donovan decides to walk or if you're a little bit queasy about the
10:12kind of contract that you would have to give him, you can't just assume that there's some other superstar that
10:18is out there that's waiting for the Cavs to go trade for him.
10:21Like a bunch of circumstances had to fall right into place for the Cavs to swoop in and get Donovan
10:28Mitchell from the Utah Jazz.
10:30And if they didn't get him from Utah, what would this team be with Darius Garland leading the way and
10:35Evan Mobley leading the way?
10:36They'd probably be like the Chicago Bulls or the Miami Heat.
10:40They certainly wouldn't have this level of success.
10:42So I understand the question and I understand maybe some hesitation.
10:47You see that number and you're like, whoa, $70 million for that guy when I have questions about whether he
10:54can be the best player on a championship team.
10:57But you have to sometimes look at what's your other option if you don't invest in that kind of guy.
11:02And I don't think the Cavs would like the answer to that question.
11:05Chris Fiora, Cleveland.com and the Plain Dealer.
11:08Of course, you can listen to him on the Wine and Gold Talk podcast as well.
11:11Joining us on the Wiseheart, right?
11:12We make it right.
11:13Call Kyle, right?
11:14Hotline.
11:15Chris, bit of an incident over the weekend down at Houston with James Harden.
11:19What happened and what are the ramifications of this with the Cavaliers?
11:25I honestly don't know that there are any ramifications from a Cavs perspective.
11:29It's obviously not a good look.
11:31You're talking about somebody who has the ability to be a free agent this offseason.
11:36You're talking about somebody that you invested in, you traded for at the deadline.
11:41Somebody that was supposed to help take you to that next step.
11:45To see him get arrested, that's never the kind of headlines that you want to create.
11:52But I don't think this means that the Cavs aren't going to commit to him financially.
11:56I don't think it means that James Harden is not going to play for the Cavs.
12:00I don't think it means that the organization is going to turn their back on him.
12:04I think what is going to happen here is exactly what was going to happen when the Cavs traded for
12:10him at the deadline.
12:11He waived his no-trade clause to come to Cleveland for a reason.
12:15He reached out to the Cavs' representatives around the time of the trade deadline for a reason.
12:21Because I think he understands that he has an opportunity to sign a multi-year deal here in Cleveland.
12:28Because one, it's beneficial for him, but it's also beneficial for the Cavs.
12:32That's the other thing.
12:33We were just talking about Donovan Mitchell.
12:34What happens if you don't invest in him?
12:37If the Cavs don't agree to this new deal with James Harden, it's not like, oh, all of a sudden
12:42they have all this money and all this cap space to use and spend in free agency.
12:47It just doesn't work that way.
12:49Part of the reason why trading for James Harden was appealing is because his contract situation, him possibly opting out,
12:58signing a lesser deal for extra years.
13:01And that is a potential pathway to the Cavs getting below the second apron and having a little bit more
13:07financial flexibility and having a little bit more in terms of what they're able to do from a trade standpoint
13:14without the restrictions that come with being a second apron team.
13:18So the Cavs benefit from this whole situation with James Harden re-signing on a multi-year deal just like
13:25James Harden benefits because he gets an extra year attached to his contract.
13:29So I think at the end of all of this, James is just going to sign a two-year $60
13:34million deal or two-year $64 million deal.
13:38Or maybe there's a third year because it's got a player option attached to it.
13:42But it's going to be something like that.
13:44And I don't think what happened over the weekend is going to change that.
13:48A lot of mixed feelings about what the Cavaliers could do to make this a better basketball team, Chris.
13:54You mentioned they're not on the same level as the Knicks.
13:57And I don't know that running it back is going to get them there.
14:02What do you think is going to happen?
14:05Is Kobe Altman going to be active?
14:06Is he going to try and make another big splash this offseason?
14:11I'm just not going to put it past him.
14:13And I understand everything that he said following the season.
14:16But I do think there is a level of motivation internally.
14:20And I do believe that they have a centerpiece of a potential blockbuster trade on their roster.
14:27And not every team can say both of those things, right?
14:31Evan Mobley is somebody that would appeal to the Milwaukee Bucks in a Giannis trade if the Cavs were to
14:36make him available, right?
14:38Evan Mobley is somebody who would appeal to the Oklahoma City Thunder if both teams were motivated to do an
14:44Evan Mobley, Jalen Williams type deal.
14:46If we're talking about trying to trade for another superstar, somebody that maybe can be a number one option on
14:54a championship level team,
14:56if you have those questions about Donovan Mitchell, Evan Mobley gets you in that conversation.
15:01Evan Mobley gets you in that conversation more than a lot of other possibilities, right?
15:07So when you have that kind of ticket, it's all about how motivated are you to cash in on that?
15:14Or how much do you think Evan Mobley can improve?
15:18And how much do you believe in Evan the person and Evan the player?
15:23So I think the Cavs have to figure out just how far away do they think they are from the
15:30New York Knicks?
15:30How far away do they think they are from the Thunder in the Western Conference or the San Antonio Spurs
15:36in the Western Conference?
15:37You know, the preseason, way too early preseason odds for NBA champion next year came out and the Cavs are
15:45what, seventh?
15:46There's six teams in front of them.
15:48And I don't think that's wrong.
15:50I don't think that's the books making a bad decision on that.
15:54I think the Cavs have a lot to prove when it comes to their viability of winning a championship.
15:59So if the Cavs view it that kind of way, sure, I could see them being aggressive.
16:06The way that I would look at it is I think Kobe in this front office will be opportunistic.
16:11I don't think they feel desperate.
16:13I don't think they feel like they need to do something splashy or overhaul this roster.
16:21But if the right opportunity presents itself, the right fit on and off the court, the right kind of style
16:29that they could potentially play by bringing in somebody different and reconfiguring the roster, I think they would absolutely explore
16:36that.
16:37And I think they have to.
16:38They're the only team in the second apron.
16:40They paid more in luxury tax than any other team in the NBA.
16:45And they have more of a ticking clock because of the Donovan Mitchell contract situation, James Harden being 36 years
16:51old.
16:52All of that stuff has to play into what do we do and how do we approach this offseason if
17:00you're Kobe Altman, if you're this rebuilt, sort of rebuilt front office because Mike Gansey is no longer there.
17:06And they have some decisions that they have to make on that front as well.
17:10So I think they're going to be as opportunistic as they have been in the past.
17:15And if it's a deal where they say, yes, this makes us better, yes, this allows us to take the
17:21next step, just like the James Harden deal presented itself around the time of the trade deadline, then I can
17:27see the Cavs pulling the trigger on that.
17:29Absolutely.
17:30Chris, thanks so much for the time.
17:32Find him on the Wine and Gold Talk podcast.
17:35Read him at cleveland.com.
17:37And we'll catch up with you soon, Chris.
17:39Talk soon, guys.
17:40All right, there we go.
17:41Chris Fedor.
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