- 2 days ago
US President Donald Trump accused Iran of carrying out drone attacks against Indian ships leaving the Strait of Hormuz, saying it was "totally unacceptable."
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00:00Good evening, you're watching India First. I'm Gaurav Savant.
00:04Will the United States and Iran finally ink an agreement that will bring peace to West Asia?
00:12Barely 12 hours after US President Donald Trump called off an imminent attack on Iran,
00:17he spoke of the paperwork now being put in place for an agreement that is likely to be inked in
00:24Europe
00:26either in the next couple of days or perhaps early next week.
00:30Iran reacted with caution saying there is no agreement in place yet.
00:35Israel is waiting to read the fine print not just on the enriched uranium
00:40but also on the long-range ballistic missiles that can target Israeli territory.
00:46It's been 105 days and counting.
00:50That's how long West Asia has been on edge.
00:54in the current round of tensions.
00:56But finally, there is a possibility that this conflict could come to an end.
01:01US President Donald Trump has called off press strikes on Tehran
01:04claiming that there is a peace agreement with Iran within reach
01:08and could even be signed perhaps by the weekend.
01:12This is the 39th time that Trump has spoken of a deal to end the conflict with Iran.
01:18But of course, it's not done till it's done.
01:22Each time, Iran issued a sharp rebuttal, calling his claims fake, this time too.
01:30They're on similar lines.
01:32But will it end the conflict in West Asia or will it just give an honourable exit to the US?
01:39Media in Washington DC and in Tehran are describing two very different agreements.
01:45Now, according to reports from the US, the proposed MOU would first extend the current ceasefire for a 60-day
01:53period.
01:54Now, during this period, both sides would then negotiate a broader nuclear agreement.
02:00The reported US framework calls for the immediate and unhindered reopening of the Strait of Hormuz,
02:09a return to normal shipping within 30 days and sanctions relief for Iran linked directly to compliance of the Strait
02:18of Hormuz opening up.
02:20In return, Iran would commit to, one, they would never acquire a nuclear weapon.
02:26Two, they would begin addressing concerns surrounding the enriched uranium stockpile.
02:32US media reports say further sanctions relief would be phased, conditional and tied to implementation stage by stage.
02:42But the version that emerges from Tehran is a little, if not a lot different.
02:49According to details published by Iran's Meher News Agency, the draft agreement begins not with a temporary 60-day respite,
02:58not with a 60-day ceasefire, but a permanent and immediate end to war and on all fronts, which includes
03:08Lebanon.
03:09The Iranian version also demands explicit American recognition of Iran's sovereignty,
03:15a commitment to non-interference in its internal affairs and withdrawal of US forces from bases around Iran
03:23and the complete lifting of the naval blockade in the next 30 days.
03:27Tehran's reported draft seek suspension of oil and petrochemical sanction,
03:32full access to Iran's financial resources and even a reconstruction package worth at least $300 billion
03:40from the United States of America and its allies.
03:44The Iranian draft also calls for a release of $24 billion in frozen funds during negotiations,
03:51with half of the money to be made available before the final round of talks even begin.
03:57Washington DC says Tehran must commit that it will never obtain a nuclear weapon.
04:05Tehran's version simply reiterates its obligations under the NPT, Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty,
04:13and insists future negotiations focus only on what is to be done with the enriched uranium
04:20and future uranium enrichment sanctions relief and economic reconstruction.
04:31There's another twist in the tale.
04:33The story just coming in from United States of America.
04:36US President Donald Trump has blamed Iran for the attacks on Indian ships leaving the Strait of Hormuz.
04:42Just moments ago, he took to social media platform Truth Social to post Iran's totally rebuffed drone attack last night
04:51against Indian ships leaving the Hormuz Strait is totally unacceptable.
04:57President Trump is now blaming Iran for the attacks on Indian ships.
05:02He says, and I quote,
05:05They better get their act together and fast.
05:08President Donald J. Trump.
05:11This after India summoned the US Sharia Affairs, Jason Meek and expressed strong displeasure over the US bombing of merchant
05:22vessels and tankers with Indian crew.
05:24In fact, three Indian sailors have lost their lives in three ships being targeted over three days in the Gulf
05:31of Oman.
05:32But US President Donald Trump is blaming Iran for a drone strike on an Indian ship.
05:38Earlier, President Trump had called off strikes on Iran at the 11th hour.
05:43But when details of the agreement apparently leaked out from the Iranian side,
05:48President Trump hit out at Iran just moments ago.
05:51He said, and I quote,
05:54The terms that Iran leaked out to the fake news have nothing to do with the terms that were agreed
06:01to in writing.
06:03What they said, including their weak and pathetic statement on having a deal,
06:10bears no relation to the truth.
06:12Very dishonorable people to deal with.
06:16With them, there is no such thing as dealing in good faith.
06:22Unquote.
06:23The question is, a couple of hours ago, President Trump said that a deal was in the pipeline.
06:29He indicated that a deal would be inked when there's a meeting in Europe.
06:35He seemed to indicate that the paperwork was being put in order.
06:39And within a couple of hours, he's blaming Iran for leaking details of what is a non-deal or not
06:47the deal that was agreed to in writing.
06:49And then he says that they're very dishonorable people to deal with.
06:56And the twist in the tale where he blames Iran for the drone attack on ships with the Indian crew.
07:02I quickly want to cut across and bring in my colleague Pranay Upadhyay for more on this.
07:08Pranay, what should we make of President Trump's latest post on Truth Social,
07:13where he's blaming Iran or Iranian drone strikes on Indian ships, saying it's totally unacceptable?
07:21Well, Gaurav, this is very ironical because the U.S. centric on social media posts clearly indicates the U.S.
07:27Navy has owned.
07:28In fact, the government of India has also summoned U.S. Chargity Affairs, Justin Meeks,
07:33twice within a span of like five days for these drone attacks and these missile attacks targeting the vessels on
07:42which the Indian crew was on board.
07:45So clearly, this clearly shows that either the Supreme Commander of the U.S. military is not breathed properly or
07:53he's trying to defeat.
07:57Because when the U.S. centric on, I'm really baffled how to react to that thing because U.S. Navy
08:02has owned these targeted strikes
08:05and in fact, they have called it as part of their naval blockade.
08:08But as far as the social media posts of President Trump is concerned, Gaurav, this is not for the first
08:12time Trump has scuttled
08:14or Trump has, you know, defamed the Iranian claims.
08:19This is yet another opportunity or yet another occasion where Trump has said that...
08:24What should one make of President Trump insisting there would be a deal in the next couple of days
08:30and that perhaps either over the weekend or early next week, there could be a meeting in Europe
08:37and some kind of a framework agreement could be inked if he's saying that you're dishonorable people,
08:44you cannot be trusted, what you're saying is not true, what we agreed to in writing is not what has
08:50been leaked to media
08:51or to fake news. What should one make of whatever is happening?
08:56Gaurav, you can very well see here that President Donald Trump is really nipped with the Iranian approach
09:02that they have leaked because if you see his sentence, he writes there in the social post that this is
09:09certainly not in good faith.
09:10So, he did not want all these details to be posted on social media or leaked to media or come
09:18out in open.
09:19But certainly, there were negotiations going on, there is an agreement and in fact President Donald Trump indicated.
09:26But you know that President Trump is a kind of a leader who does not want to share his byline
09:31with anyone.
09:31So, he wants a word to show that his pressure has worked, Iran has succumbed, Iran has capitulated and in
09:39fact, Iran is signing...
09:42Okay.
09:45Pranay, keep tracking that story. I will come back to you four more.
09:49This message from President Trump on Truth Social, it's just a bolt out of the blue because the markets had
09:56actually rallied.
09:57There was hope that there would be an agreement, there was hope that finally peace may prevail.
10:04But suddenly, President Trump issues a statement on Truth Social where he hits out at fake news, where he hits
10:12out at Iran.
10:12He hits out at Iran saying that you're dishonorable people, this is not the agreement that had been agreed to
10:19or had been accepted.
10:21And that, just some time back, he had said that there would be a deal over the weekend and then
10:27he blames Iran.
10:29He blamed Iran for attacks on Indian ships, leaving the Strait of Hormuz.
10:33He took to Truth Social to post Iran's totally rebuffed drone attack last night against Indian ships, leaving the Hormuz
10:44Strait is totally unacceptable.
10:46They better get their act together and fast, President Donald J. Trump.
10:53We will decode what he says, what he means, though that's a task that's easier said than done.
11:00But earlier today, I spoke to Israel's ambassador to India, Reuben Hazar, on this proposed peace deal.
11:09And Israel's ambassador to India was very clear.
11:13One, President Trump was a dealmaker.
11:17Two, his attempt was to ensure Iran wanted oil prices to cross $150 or $200 a barrel so that there
11:25would be pressure on the United States of America.
11:28President Trump had ensured that oil prices came down below $90 a barrel so that the pressure now is on
11:35Iran.
11:36But is Iran under pressure?
11:38Will there be a peace deal?
11:40Is Israel on board?
11:43Listen in to excerpts of my conversation with Ambassador Reuben Hazar.
11:52Joining me on this special broadcast now is Ambassador Reuben Hazar, Israel's ambassador to India.
11:58Ambassador, welcome.
12:00Thank you, Gaurav, for the invitation.
12:02Ambassador, what do you make of the President calling off the attack at the 11th hour?
12:08Is there a strategy in place, or is this just more chaos?
12:11I think we've seen the strategy from the start, because the United States has been trying to convince the Iranian
12:16regime to renounce their nuclear weapons program more than a year ago.
12:22And if the Iranians would have been serious about this, we could have prevented all this military action.
12:28And I think that what the United States is trying to do is to use the minimum force required in
12:34order to achieve what it wants to achieve.
12:36Which is the complete removal of the Iranian nuclear threat that would include a ban on enrichment and taking out
12:47the fissile material.
12:49And also, of course, restoring stability to the Hormuz, which is a fabricated crisis that the Iranians did in order
13:10to extort the international community.
13:12So, of course, that we have an opportunity here to reach stability.
13:17And what it seems to me is that the United States is using force, but trying to minimize the use
13:23of force in order to keep this crisis from expanding.
13:28Sir, three Indians have been killed in what could be completely unnecessary bombing by the United States.
13:34Isn't that a war crime by the U.S.?
13:38But is Israel on board this peace effort?
13:43Was Israel consulted?
13:44Because I believe the U.S. president and the Israeli prime minister, they speak pretty often.
13:49Yes, they speak almost on a daily basis.
13:52And, you know, the clear in this, these conversations are a good opportunity to clear out differences.
13:57Because no doubt that there are efforts by different mediators to try to bring the United States to compromise on
14:04the interest of the U.S. and the interest of Israel.
14:06So, we keep in close consultations.
14:08So, while you're in close consultation, newspaper reports seem to indicate that the American president used rather unparliamentary and uncomplimentary
14:19language for the Israeli prime minister in the past.
14:23There are some reports that seem to indicate that there are differences between the two now on the endgame.
14:29First of all, we've seen the style of the U.S. president in the past.
14:33He's very, you know, explicit on things that, thoughts that he has.
14:37But at the end of the day, these conversations, even when we have differences, we manage to, you know, narrow
14:42them and to close the gaps.
14:45And I think we've been staying on course when it comes to fulfilling the interests that we both have, that
14:51I mentioned before.
14:52Removal of these existential threats and creating a situation in which our region will be much more stable.
14:59Now, America talks about removing the enriched uranium, the material.
15:07But we don't hear much conversation about the range of the ballistic missiles.
15:11And that is Israel's red line.
15:14Perhaps that should be the red line of the region now, the way, you know, Iran has targeted multiple neighbors.
15:20Is that central to that conversation?
15:22Is that one of Israel's red lines?
15:24Not only that.
15:25We are continuing our activity in Lebanon, as you know.
15:28Because Hezbollah has been an amazing, you know, a terrible threat over our communities.
15:32They have been firing at us from the north.
15:35We had to remove the threat of invasion to northern Israel.
15:40We are dismantling the infrastructure underground.
15:43And we are not going to agree that under this ceasefire between the U.S. and Iran,
15:48we will, our capability to continue defending ourselves in Lebanon would be undermined.
15:53Not only that, we are conducting a peace negotiation effort with Lebanon.
15:57So, yes, we have the Hezbollah threat that we are not going to compromise on.
16:02And you mentioned rightly, the ballistic missile threat is not only a threat on Israel,
16:06it is a threat on the entire region.
16:08But tell me this, even within your country, there is a lot of criticism that this is maybe
16:16turning out to be a forever war or words to that effect.
16:19Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu promised absolute victory against Iran, against Hamas,
16:26against Hezbollah, perhaps he didn't mention the Houthis in as many words, but you still
16:31have the Hamas, you still have Hezbollah targeting northern Israel, and you still have Iran, who's
16:37striking Israel and other countries.
16:40So, are you in a worse situation today than you were on the 28th of February?
16:44Well, you know, in Israel there is now a political debate because we are entering into an election
16:48season.
16:49So, of course, people are asking themselves what did Prime Minister Netanyahu meant when
16:54he said total victory?
16:56Yes.
16:57When you look at it from an observer's point of view, what you can see very clearly is that
17:02the Iranian axis has been substantially debilitated.
17:05First of all, we have Hamas in a box in Gaza with a very clear political plan that Hamas has
17:11to comply with no ability of Hamas to threaten Israel at this point.
17:15The second thing that you have is Hezbollah that had 150,000 missiles before the war and
17:21an entire compound prepared for invasion into Israel that was completely obliterated.
17:27Now Hezbollah is much weaker.
17:29We have a new government in Lebanon that actually is committed to peace with Israel and is against
17:35Hezbollah, which we didn't have before the war.
17:37In Syria, you have no longer Iranian presence in Syria.
17:42That was taken out.
17:43That was a huge platform for them.
17:44And, of course, we have removed, and that's the most important thing, Garok, we have removed
17:49two immediate existential threats, the nuclear, military nuclear threat, they were very close
17:55to a breakout to a nuclear weapon, and, of course, the ballistic missile threat.
18:01They still have residual capability, but we removed the entire industry, it's going to
18:04take them a long time to rebuild that.
18:07On top of that, the United States has completely obliterated their navy and their air force.
18:12So here you have an Iranian axis that is much weaker and that will allow for stability in
18:18the region, the Gulf countries, and us will have the oxygen to engage in cooperation, to
18:24build the future, to build connectivity in our region.
18:27The future of Indians living in the Gulf is going to be much brighter as a result of that
18:33effort.
18:33So people will debate whether this is a total victory or it's a minus victory, but at the
18:39end of the day, we have to look at the facts.
18:42And I think that the facts are very clear.
18:44The Iranian axis has been debilitated substantially.
18:48Is that the actual situation on ground?
18:50Because the state of Hormuz, the blockade still remains, Bab al-Mandab is the other threat,
18:57that the Houthis are now threatening to block, and on the instructions of the Iranian regime.
19:02So their control on two of the world's most crucial arteries remains total even today, near total even today.
19:11Their unmanned boats continue to target American ships.
19:15I mean, America, with 11 aircraft carrier battle groups, the most powerful air force in the world,
19:21the U.S. Air Force is, you know, in trouble.
19:25Their bases are being targeted in Jordan, they're being targeted in Kuwait.
19:28They're being told to leave Bahrain, they're being told to leave Qatar.
19:33So, you know, Israel and America are the two most powerful air forces, and a country that's not seen so
19:39powerful
19:39is taking you on with ballistic missiles even today, even till maybe 48 hours earlier.
19:45Well, you know, you have to decide how far you want to go when it comes to, you know, accepting
19:51Iranian propaganda.
19:51Because the situation is, A, that this weapon that they use, the Hormuz Straits blockade, is working against them right
20:04now,
20:05because there is a novel blockade of the United States, and the exports of oil from Iran has practically have
20:10gone to zero, okay?
20:12And they depend on about 80% of the budget on the exports of oil, number one.
20:17Number two, this tool that they have used to extort the international community has not created many friends to Iran,
20:25okay?
20:25And everybody will now have to draw the conclusions when it comes to the future.
20:32So, already, you have the Saudis taking the oil westwards, and they will actually build more infrastructure.
20:39You will have the UAE that not only has built the pipeline, they are finishing another pipeline, and they are
20:46going, and they went out of OPEC.
20:50I want to draw your attention, the attention of the viewers, to something very simple.
20:54Now, thanks to the increase in production in the United States, and the exit of the UAE from OPEC,
21:02OPEC won't be able to control the prices anymore.
21:06So, under the previous reality that you had, the Saudis needed a barrel of oil of about a price of
21:14$100, okay, to sustain their economy.
21:18Right now, with the crisis, the price is $85.
21:21So, imagine...
21:22Which is still too high, instead of being $60, around $60, $62 a barrel.
21:26Yes, but this is thanks to what?
21:28Thanks to the policy of the NSA to increase production.
21:31Because during, for example, the Obama years, when there was a ban on exports of natural gas from the United
21:36States, and there wasn't a lot of drilling,
21:39the prices, the price of $100 or $120 was the normal price.
21:44So, the only reason why the prices went down to $60 was because of President Trump's policy.
21:49Okay.
21:50And I'm sure that after this crisis is over, we're going to go back to those prices and not to
21:55the OPEC prices.
21:56So, when you say when this war is over, around the 28th of February when the bombing started, the hope
22:02was one week, maybe 10 days, maybe 20.
22:05Is there an apprehension, sir, that this could become like the Russia-Ukraine war on for four years and counting?
22:12Well, first of all, we have to differentiate between two phases.
22:15We said that it's going to take several weeks of military action.
22:19That's what happened.
22:20And then we had the ceasefire.
22:21So, right now, what we have is a ceasefire.
22:23Only in name.
22:24They're bombing each other every day.
22:25Yes, but the intensity is pretty low.
22:27And you have a situation in which the crisis is not over.
22:30But I'm confident that the United States and Israel will both have not only the capability but also the patience
22:39to continue applying pressure until the Iranian regime complies.
22:44You think the Iranian regime complies?
22:45We are having, right now, a situation in which this memorandum of our understanding or this agreement between the U
22:54.S. and the regime includes several elements.
22:58And these elements are going to answer to many of the challenges that we are seeing forward.
23:05So, I wouldn't go in believing all this rhetoric.
23:08I think that, at the end of the day, the reason why this overwhelming force of the United States is
23:14not crushing Iran is because, as I said at the beginning, the United States is not trying here to crush.
23:21They are trying to use the minimum force to achieve a diplomatic outcome.
23:27So, as somebody who has great experience working in Israel, in the United States, across the world, how many of
23:36those war in percentage point achieved?
23:4080%, 60%, 50%, 30%?
23:43How much has been achieved?
23:44And is there a timeline that you'd like to give?
23:47Well, I'll give you my perspective.
23:48Yes.
23:48Okay.
23:49For almost 20 years, Israel refrained from preemptively attacking Iran and their proxies.
23:58And we concentrated in building our economy, in reforming our country, in creating prosperity.
24:05Thanks to those efforts, today Israel has a very powerful economy.
24:09We already passed the $700 billion mark, and our GDP per capita is almost $70,000 per capita.
24:16That's because we prevented ourselves from going to wars.
24:21Since the 7th of October, things have changed.
24:23And we came to the conclusion that we have to defend ourselves, but we have to do it in a
24:29thorough way.
24:30We cannot no longer defend ourselves from the border.
24:33We secured buffer zones in Gaza, in Lebanon, in Syria.
24:39We debilitated the Iranian regime.
24:40Yes, this was the longest war in our history.
24:44Yes.
24:44But we had not only the economic power, but also the will of the people, the resilience of the people,
24:52to withstand this effort.
24:54And I can tell you that after these three years, this is becoming our finest moment.
25:01Finest moment.
25:02Yes, because Israel has proved that as much as this Iranian regime wants to suffocate us and destroy us,
25:09not only that we are overcoming that and debilitating it, we are coming out much stronger.
25:15And the Iranian regime, even if they reach an agreement and they are given or released part of the sanctions,
25:22it will take them years to try to rebuild what they had just before the 7th of October.
25:28So Iran would want you to stop operations against the Hezbollah.
25:33The Israeli army is already in the southern part of Lebanon.
25:37Earlier you wanted a zone cleared south of Litani River.
25:41Now there are reports that say that Israel wants the entire area to be cleared south of Zehrani River.
25:48And Israel is being accused of expansionism.
25:52You know, trying to create this greater Israel.
25:55Expansionism on the Hamas side.
25:57Expansion on Golan Heights, on the Syrian side and on the Lebanese side.
26:02I think the Golani Brigade, one of the battalion commanders said we can even take Beirut if we are instructed
26:07to do so.
26:08So is this a part of a wider expansion plan?
26:10No.
26:11Israel has zero territorial claims over Lebanon or over Gaza or over Syria.
26:18What we have stated is that as a lesson from the surprise attacks of the 7th of October
26:25and the capability that was built in order to eradicate us, we are now taking buffer zones.
26:30We are negotiating with the Lebanese government to reach a peace agreement
26:35and to create a situation in which the Lebanese army, with the help of the international community,
26:40would be capable, hopefully in the future, to take control and assume sovereignty.
26:47Look, Tehran has been trying to dictate the fate of Lebanon.
26:51And now we have a government in Lebanon that is trying to defy that.
26:55So I think we have a role, a responsibility together with the international community to see that this defiance and
27:02this quest for regaining Lebanese sovereignty would be achieved.
27:06Our Prime Minister and our President only yesterday went out with messages to Lebanon supporting the government and basically trying
27:15to create this coalition that actually will create a better future for us and for Lebanon in this region, free
27:23from the agendas of Tehran.
27:24I cannot predict the future.
27:26But is America, you know, their position untenable, the manner in which American bases are being targeted by Iran across
27:34the region and Iran saying America should just leave?
27:38Does that show that Iran is now far more domineering than they were earlier?
27:41No, I think that when you look at it from a completely objective point of view, you could see that
27:47the Iranian military capability is degraded substantially.
27:51The fact that they are managed to target different bases doesn't mean that this constitutes a threat that, you know,
27:59will get people to leave.
28:01I think that the expectation of the Iranian regime to become the hegemon in the region, that dissipated completely as
28:07a result of this conflict.
28:08But it was very imminent before this campaign started.
28:15So I think it's a great relief for us, for the countries in the region, that these aspirations of the
28:20Iranian regime are not going to be fulfilled.
28:23Ambassador Ruben Azhar for joining me here on this India Today special broadcast. Many thanks.
28:33So is there finally hope there will be peace in West Asia? Or is this yet another false start?
28:40Are people playing the market, as was the allegation in the past?
28:45And is this just a way for the US president to have an honourable exit?
28:51And the conflict between Israel and Iran, will that, the tensions at least, will they continue?
28:57Joining me on this special broadcast is Mohamed Khatibi, a political analyst and journalist, Middle East affairs specialist, joins us
29:04from Tehran.
29:05Prof. Dr. Hindraj Jangir is professor and director at Jindal School of International Affairs.
29:12Again, a Middle East expert joins us on the show.
29:15Let me begin by asking our guest from Tehran, Mohamed Khatibi.
29:18What is the understanding in Tehran about an imminent agreement?
29:24Do you think peace is on the horizon? There will be peace soon?
29:30So I think that the peace deal can be achieved. However, there are so many important issues.
29:36The war is not something that started one or two months ago.
29:42It is a big mistrust over 47 years between Iran and the United States.
29:48And people in Tehran think that the US may betray the deal once again, which it did in the past
29:57rounds of negotiations by attacking Iran.
30:00However, there is a big opportunity right now to reach a deal.
30:04And Iran has set out some red lines.
30:07And I think that the gap between the two sides have been narrowing, but the mistrust is still there.
30:12And there are so many speculations in the media and the allied groups about the details of the deal.
30:21However, I think that there are some important issues.
30:25Iran will not let go of the right to peaceful nuclear enrichment.
30:30And I think that it will show and it will commit concessions to the United States in a way that
30:38proves that it don't want a nuclear deal.
30:41The other issue is the Strait of Hormuz.
30:44Iran has time and again said that if it can't sell its oil, it will not let others in the
30:51region to sell oil.
30:53So the blockade should end by the United States.
30:57And that will be a good point.
30:59And other issue that Iran is still insisting is the blocked and frozen assets, which were frozen by the United
31:07States.
31:08And the amount is really big.
31:11And I think that Iran wants that to be solved.
31:16So half of it, $12 billion to be released soon and the remaining $12 billion just before the agreement.
31:25I'll come to that bit in just a moment.
31:27But are the gaps narrowing, Professor Kinviraj, in your view, is this time any different from past instances where we
31:36were told that there's a peace deal just around the corner?
31:39It would be signed very soon or is this yet another false start?
31:44Thank you, Gaurav.
31:46Thank you, Gaurav.
31:46I think there would be a deal because the desperate president of Donald Trump would really go for it as
31:58he has been even restraining Israel after the last week's retaliation episode.
32:06But that deal will not achieve peace and that deal will also not end the war.
32:13As Mohammed said, there is something very fundamental, which is antagonistic and very violently carried by all sides for the
32:22last 47 years.
32:23And none seems to drop that kind of ideological war upon the other.
32:31I would say in this episode and in many other conversations, Israel and America seem to be the aggressors.
32:39But that's not the case.
32:41On 23rd of October, 2023, when the Hamas attack happened, Iran participated in that whole episode through Lebanon.
32:52And I think the provocations from all sides have to really be taken into account for a peace in the
33:01region if we talk about what can really substantially change this part of the world.
33:08That's a very pertinent point to make because, Mohammed Khatibi, when I interview guests from Israel and I've just interviewed
33:16Israel's ambassador to India, Israel's point of view is when Iran is sworn to Israel's destruction, how can there be
33:25peace?
33:25If Iran promotes proxies like Hamas or Hezbollah, how can there be peace when Hezbollah bomb, you know, northern part
33:36of Israel or Hamas did the 7th of October 2023?
33:39I don't want to go into history right now on who started it and who will end it.
33:44But where do you see more points of convergence and divergence right now to achieve that basic framework of peace
33:52deal in your view, sir?
33:54I think that before talking about your question, I would like to say that Iran did not attack Israel.
34:03But the first time in the attacking of Iran's embassy in Syria, Israel started it first and it targeted the
34:13chief of Hamas in Tehran.
34:14And Iran responded to those. And Iran did not approve or greenlight the Hamas attacks on Israel.
34:24And it was in a way that happened.
34:27And Iran just come and defended the Palestinians, which are being occupied for over 75 years by Israelis.
34:34And 70,000, more than 70,000 people have been killed there by Israel.
34:39And blaming all the mess because of Iran is not true because before Iran and the Islamic Republic established, Israel
34:48was killing Palestinians.
34:50And before Islamic Republic was established, Israel was attacking Lebanon.
34:56And over the years, it has not stopped.
34:59And even after the fall of Assad regime in Syria, Israel continued to attack Syria.
35:07So blaming the whole mess in the Middle East on Iran is not true.
35:13And it is right now Israel which is trying to torpedo the agreement between Iran and the United States.
35:20I think that Israel wants a weak Iran and it will not hesitate to do so by attacking every infrastructure
35:28in Iran.
35:29But the cost is really high because Iran will not sit back and watch its infrastructure destroyed.
35:35I think the end game for Israel is the divide.
35:37Absolutely.
35:37Which is what brings me to the point, where is that common ground for peace, Professor Kinviraj?
35:44Both sides sworn to weaken the other, if not destroy the other.
35:49Where is that common ground for peace, sir?
35:53Well, it's not as it comes out in the conversation.
35:56It's a fight of the mindsets.
36:00And, you know, Muhammad is right that Iran doesn't hold all the blames.
36:04But then Iran doesn't really, you know, evade all responsibilities as well.
36:11America is not the only evil in the region.
36:14I'll give you an example.
36:15When Mehmud Abbas of the, you know, Palestinian National Authority, when late Ayatollah Khamenei was alive in the year 2024,
36:26he publicly gave a press conference and he requested him not to meddle with the Palestinian issue.
36:33Like, similarly, you have the President of Lebanon.
36:37But on the current peace talks, you know, because we tend to become prisoners of history.
36:42Right now, on the current peace talks, both sides, if they talk about moving forward,
36:47is there convergence, you know, when U.S. says enriched uranium will have to be destroyed
36:56or IAEA will have to ensure that it's no longer weapons-grade.
37:02Peaceful use for energy, yes.
37:05Weapons-grade, no.
37:07Is Iran on the same page, sir?
37:10Muhammad Khadibi.
37:10Yes, this is something that is really a relief.
37:13Muhammad Khadibi first.
37:14I think that Iran has done it once by implementing the JCPOA in 2015,
37:21which Trump withdrew from it in his first term.
37:26And Iran is still wanting to show the world, including the United States,
37:30that it does not want the nuclear weapon.
37:34And the reason that Iran has right now 60 percent of enriched uranium at its hands
37:40is because of the Trump withdrawing from the 2015 deal.
37:45Iran is ready to solve the questions.
37:48And the allegations about Iran trying to reach a nuclear bomb right now is false
37:54because of the attacks by Israel and the United States.
37:59Those in reach uranium is not reachable right now, and no one has access to it.
38:05And I think that Iran is willing to come to the table because of that highly enriched uranium,
38:12but enriching as a peaceful right under the NPT is a red line for Iran.
38:18However, for being the good guy, Iran can halt its enrichment program for sometimes maybe three to five years.
38:27But long term is a red line because Iran has endured so many years of sanctions, two wars,
38:33and still is insisting on it, and it lost a leader over it.
38:38And I don't think that Iran will let go of enriching uranium right now.
38:43No, so three percent, three percent, eight percent, or weapons grade,
38:49that's the big question, Professor Kinviraj, at this stage.
38:53What happens to that enriched uranium?
38:55The US understanding, at least according to reports from there,
38:59is that it will no longer remain weapons grade,
39:02and that IAEA will have a very critical role in either destroying it
39:07or ensuring it is only for energy or medical use.
39:14Gaurav, what should not worry us are these technicalities.
39:18Even if this is extracted,
39:20Iran will be able to enrich another set of uranium in the next 10 years.
39:25So let's really understand what can really bring peace.
39:30As an Indian, it really pains the heart that Iranian nuclear issue is muddled with a lot of other issues.
39:39As an Indian, I understand not joining NPT.
39:43I understand not standing weak against the Western and the American nuclear hegemony.
39:50I think as a Gandhian, I would say all nuclear weapons should be abolished.
39:55However, the Iranian problem is the problem of this ideological war and the mindset.
40:02If Iran says it will have diplomatic normalization with Israel,
40:06it will have diplomatic normalization with the United States,
40:10I don't think many countries would then oppose Iranian nuclear enrichment program.
40:14So I think what we really need to understand is that many times national states are not after logical, rational,
40:25national interest and these technical issues.
40:27Technical issues can always be resolved.
40:29But the fundamental causes of the war are these dehumanizing political ideologies against each other.
40:40So, Mohamed Khatibi, you want to quickly respond to that, that do we start seeing first steps towards peace?
40:48And, you know, you heard the professor there also on the Strait of Hormuz.
40:53Do we see the Strait of Hormuz open immediately unhindered access of ships from both sides,
41:00not blocked by Iran and no blockade by the United States of America?
41:05I think that can happen, a deal can happen, if the United States drops its maximalist demands,
41:11which include zero enrichment.
41:15I think that the United States, as long as it continues with its double standards,
41:21for example, keeping a lid on the Israel's nuclear program
41:25and carrying out operations against Iran because of its nuclear program,
41:30this can't be solved because the double standards is pushing Iran to pursue a weapon.
41:39And Iran right now is not pursuing weapon, but it can happen because the United States killed the one person
41:49in Iran
41:49who was against building a nuclear weapon, which was Iran's late leader,
41:55by issuing a fatwa, prevented building a nuclear bomb.
41:58But right now in Iran, there are many voices that are asking for a nuclear bomb.
42:04If the United States pushes further, I don't think that Iran will bow down.
42:10Instead, it will continue to retaliate and it may pursue a nuclear bomb eventually if the pressure is maximizing.
42:22Okay. And from the United States, Professor, we see a lot of blow hot, blow cold.
42:28One day, the U.S. president says, peace is on the horizon.
42:32We are about to sign a deal. Paperwork almost done.
42:35It could be signed over the weekend. And the next day, he says, you know, we'll destroy Iran.
42:41We'll take over Khark Island. We'll ensure that they're no longer selling oil anywhere in the world.
42:46And then Iran responds by saying, we'll ensure Americans don't have a base in the region.
42:51So, you know, it's just one of the many false starts.
42:55People make money on the market when it goes up, goes down.
42:59The world suffers and there's no peace.
43:04That's really the unkind reality of international relations.
43:08Donald Trump, you know, has this very undue leverage as a president of America to impact the rest of the
43:15world.
43:16And yes, countries like India, we just lost three sailors without any fault.
43:22So I think there are many injustices of the power relations in the world.
43:28But I think at a larger point, Iran is also enjoying a very short moment of upper hand and a
43:37victory.
43:37Iran hasn't won a war. Iran has just, you know, avoided the defeat.
43:42It's like a football match that ended up as a draw.
43:46So I think Iran doesn't realize that Hormuz and other issues will not give it international solidarity.
43:53Look at India. Over the years, Iranian nuclear issue was a support of India.
43:58Now, India doesn't support it.
44:01Countries will not support an ideologically driven state with open wars.
44:07So I think what will prevail, and I think looking at it from India's perspective, I think what we can
44:14be blessed with are the constraints that are coming on all parties.
44:19You know, Gulf countries are pressuring Donald Trump to make a deal rather than restart the war.
44:24Israel has been constrained by America and the anti-war protest happening within Israeli society.
44:31So I think we have to bank upon the other international external factors because the parties themselves seem to be
44:40in a very relentless one kind of a mindset of confrontation.
44:46It's the United States of America, Iran or even Israel.
44:50Israel, it seems the entire world is suffering and is losing.
44:56The United Nations, of course, one of the biggest losers, not being able to find peace in conflict either here
45:02or Russia and Ukraine earlier.
45:04Many thanks for joining me.
45:06And whether it's the conflict in West Asia or between Russia and Ukraine, India's message to the West is very
45:13clear and unapologetic.
45:16At a time when questions are being raised about New Delhi's strategic choices, especially the purchase of Russian oil, India's
45:23external affairs minister, Dr. S. Jaishankar, delivered a sharp reality check to Western critics.
45:29Explaining India's energy security, Dr. Jaishankar said New Delhi buys oil based on cost and availability.
45:36He pointed out European nations themselves forced market conditions that pushed India towards Russian supplies.
45:44He also called out the double standards of the West, reminding Europe that weapons sold by European countries were used
45:52against India for decades.
45:55Even though India has never endangered European security, no made in India weapon has ever been used against Europe.
46:05Listen in to the external affairs minister.
46:09We have extremely good, extremely strong relations with all of them.
46:16No soft talk.
46:18U.S.-Iran negotiation.
46:20No carefully worded response.
46:22So how would you explain that?
46:26External affairs minister S. Jaishankar took on Western critics head on, calling out what India sees as blatant double standards
46:36on Russia, energy and security.
46:40Speaking at the Kultharanta talks in Finland, Jaishankar pushed back against repeated questions over India's purchase of Russian oil.
46:50I buy oil.
46:53I buy oil based on cost and availability.
46:57So at that point of time, much of the oil available in the market was Russian, because Europeans were essentially
47:07buying up the Middle East oil, which was our traditional supply.
47:12So circumstances pushed us in a certain direction.
47:18He reminded the audience that European nations have sold weapons that were later used against India.
47:25I would say this, you know, no European country has been attacked with Indian weapons.
47:33I wish I could say that for European weapons vis-Ã -vis India.
47:38So keep that in mind.
47:40The external affairs minister also exposed what he described as the best shifting stance on Russian energy.
47:49According to Jaishankar, U.S. first encouraged India to buy Russian oil, then imposed tariffs and later withdrew them.
47:56Underscoring India's pragmatic approach, Jaishankar said energy decisions are driven by national interest, not geopolitical pressure.
48:07The message was sharp and unmistakable.
48:10India will not be lectured on strategic choices by countries that continue to put their own interests first.
48:18Bureau Report, India Today.
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