00:00Right now, we bring to you our Breakfast at Tiffin's segment with our Dallas Stars Insider
00:06and man who no doubt loves to attend city council meetings.
00:10So much.
00:11It is Robert Tiffin.
00:13Good morning, sir.
00:16Good to talk to you guys.
00:18I will say that going to that city council meeting is probably more entertaining than
00:23the last sporting event I went to, which is when the Rangers got no hit.
00:27So between the two, I don't know, pretty good city council meeting.
00:30So did the Plano city council start off by talking about the eligibility of Brendan Sorsby
00:36or did they dive into other issues of the day?
00:41They chose to stay off that one controversial topic and opt for four other ones.
00:47Did you get the sense?
00:48They're really wise by them.
00:49Yes, I absolutely agree.
00:51How many times did they say whereas in a proclamation?
00:53Oh my gosh.
00:55Oh man.
00:57I think they have it tattooed somewhere.
00:59I'm sure when you get elected to the city council somewhere, you have matching whereas
01:02tattoos.
01:03Yes.
01:04I can think of one place where it would go.
01:06So going in, did this feel like this city council meeting was just going to pretty much be a
01:13rubber stamp for the Willow Bend Arena District or is that not the way you read it going in?
01:19Well, a few things kind of help give context to that.
01:24The short answer is all four items that were on the docket for, you know, that allowed for both public
01:30comment and that were out there for individual consideration.
01:34All four of those items were voted eight to zero by the city council in favor.
01:41So that kind of tells you that if there had been any kind of dissent behind the scenes,
01:45anyone who followed like the Phoenix Coyotes back in the day or Arizona Coyotes when they were trying
01:50to stay in Arizona and they were trying to get land at different places and interacting with different
01:55kind of city panels and commissions and councils, those were far more acrimonious and kind of more
02:01divided votes.
02:02Any measures that came up for land acquisition and development there, there was nothing like that here.
02:07So both the votes themselves and kind of the nature of the comments, you know, of course,
02:12any city council meeting, you're often going to have one or two in a Coyotes.
02:17You're going to have some of those very vocal citizens who like to show up and make their case.
02:23And that's their right. And that's a beautiful part of living in our country.
02:27But the long and the short of it is it sounds like the executive session that happened before
02:33this, you know, which happens behind closed doors.
02:35And what we now know has been well over a year of dialogue between the stars and Plano.
02:41This really, by the time it got to this point, I don't know that anyone was changing anyone's
02:46minds, no matter how eloquently they spoke during public comment.
02:50Which they always do. No doubt about that.
02:52So kind of, kind of, kind of, kind of on that idea when you talked about how long they have
02:59been talking, can you kind of throw some cold water on the idea that people have that like
03:04the stars somehow had all of their eggs in the basket of that AAC trial or whatever you
03:11mediation or whatever you want to call it?
03:13Because I've heard from so many people who were like, well, they just pivoted to this
03:16because of the AAC.
03:17And I don't think that's right at all.
03:20Yeah.
03:21The, the morning news actually had a, had a piece this morning talking about how the stars
03:28in Plano have been talking.
03:29I think Plano expressed interest in the fall of 2024, which if you know the timeline, that's
03:35almost right after all the fallout between the stars and the Mavs started.
03:40Well, it's nearly two years ago, a year and a half now.
03:43And so it kind of tells you that the stars were very much talking to everyone and exploring
03:50all of their options for, for a long, long time now.
03:53And actually one or two of the city council members in the meeting last night of Plano
03:59mentioned a lot of citizens expressed concern about traffic, which I think most fans would
04:04agree with when you just kind of look at a map and how you get there and the options
04:09you do and don't have to do that.
04:11And we all know dark probably ain't coming to Plano anytime soon.
04:16It seems pretty clear from what the city council members said, they were basically just trying
04:21to lay concerns and say, yes, we hear you, we understand, but look, all of your concerns
04:26about traffic are kind of changing the neighborhood and everything.
04:30There's a real chance that the stars would have gone to a neighboring city and then we
04:33still would have had to deal with all the traffic coming through, but we wouldn't have
04:36gotten any of the benefits of it.
04:37That's, that's something that was actually said by one of the city council members last
04:40night.
04:41And while there are a few people who are kind of groaning and grumbling about that in the
04:45gallery where I was sitting, it does kind of tell you that the stars probably did a
04:50pretty good job of, I don't want to say pitting cities against each other, but let's say maybe
04:55made it a competitive bid process by different cities in the Metroplex.
05:00And so Plano obviously decided they wanted to be the ones to, to come out and top and
05:04from everything we've been hearing and even heard this recently from, from Brad Alberts
05:09over the last 24 hours, it sounds like Plano did a good job of making it a very, very
05:13attractive proposition for, for the team.
05:16And it sure looks like that's the way things are headed, but you know, still early days
05:20yet, I suppose.
05:21Yeah.
05:21I think, yeah, when it comes to dark Kevin, the, the rail runs on the East side, so it
05:25wouldn't be very close at all to where the arena would be.
05:29And then the bus system, I think they even started discussing an alternative for
05:33dark, uh, being in the city of Plano.
05:35So that would be another proposal that would be kind of difficult to, to make that all
05:39happen, but it is right next to the toll road.
05:41There are some options there, but it, uh, and I think they, they love the idea that George
05:46Bush runs that way, but if you're going to have the Valley View Mavericks, uh, over at
05:50635 in the tollway, that could be a congested area at some point, uh, through there.
05:56I just, the, the other part that kind of really stands out from the renderings, and I do love
06:02some renderings, uh, Robert, the, uh, the, uh, man, you guys do know how to party.
06:08There is a, uh, there, there's a district that there's a entertainment kind of district
06:12that they built there.
06:13And I was talking to my wife cause we live pretty close to the area where they're, where
06:17they're going to be doing this.
06:18I was talking to her about it and I was like, where would you place the arena?
06:22And she was like, it just makes sense to place it in the back where the mall currently
06:25is.
06:26But then it seems like they want to utilize that surrounding area.
06:30I mean, we see what they did with Texas live, but they, they feel like that surrounding area
06:35can be a great entertainment district that they can also benefit from too.
06:40Yeah.
06:40And that's, uh, in the proposal, I've read a lot of documents and stuff too, over the
06:45last little while, kind of detailing the proposal and something that was brought up by actually
06:49a couple of, of citizens last night was, okay, maybe, maybe this is actually a good thing.
06:54And maybe the stadium is the right thing to do, but this, this tax increment, uh, financing
07:00reinvestment zone, this is far, far bigger than just the stadium area.
07:04This is, this is, you know, extends to acres and acres, both North and South of where the
07:09proposed stadium site would be.
07:11So this seems much more like a priority.
07:14Again, this is a citizen saying this, um, this seems much more like a prioritization of
07:18this part of Plano at possibly the expense of other parts.
07:22That was a concern that was raised.
07:24Um, and certainly it does seem like they're trying to build a big, big, uh, complex, um,
07:31that's both, you know, the arena and then another billion or 2 billion of the surrounding
07:35district as well.
07:37The, the tone from the comments, the city council last night was very much, this is a
07:41big opportunity.
07:42Um, all the proposals with the TIRZ, the tax increment, but basically the way they're going
07:48to fund that 700 million that Plano is planning to contribute to the 1 billion plus, uh, of
07:53construction and development costs.
07:56They're assuming that tax dollars are going to do that.
07:58And they're assuming that these measures to, to take these tax dollars from that area to
08:03fund that it's all going to, all their projections and you can read them, uh, in detail.
08:08They all project to more than cover that amount.
08:12Um, now of course they probably projected that the mall, uh, that the shops at Willow-Bend
08:17was going to be doing really a lot better.
08:19Yeah.
08:19Yeah, probably so later.
08:20So things can change.
08:23Um, and obviously there's, there's always some measure of exposure anytime you have a
08:28project this big, you know, to what's going to happen a decade or two decades or more
08:32from now, but that's, that's the proposal that this in theory is going to bring a ton
08:36of business.
08:37And those tax dollars are going to be really good things for, for the city and the city
08:41and the eight elected representatives all seem to be thinking that this is, this is ultimately
08:47going to be for the betterment of the people there, uh, whenever and however they actually
08:51get to the area.
08:52Kevin, uh, obviously we love Robert Tiffin and starsthoughts.com and the work that he
08:56does, uh, fantastic job covering the stars, but now also real estate mogul, uh, when it
09:02comes to the conversation about real estate.
09:04I'm most impressed that you haven't asked him how much your taxes are going to go up
09:08yet.
09:08Well, you would already want to do that the other day.
09:10So yeah, we, uh, we really did.
09:13So while all of this is happening, how concerned are the stars at also picking up Dylan Larkin
09:20because Jason Robertson wants too much money?
09:22What's the story there?
09:25Uh, I think on paper, sure.
09:27You have, you have one team where a player wants to get out and one team that's not sure
09:32they'll be able to convince a player to stay.
09:34So sure on paper.
09:36Okay.
09:36Then those two teams just need to talk to each other and boom, one guy might not want to
09:39stay.
09:39One guy definitely wants to leave.
09:41Great.
09:41Easy.
09:41Uh, this is, this is great.
09:42We've all, you know, made trades with baseball cards in junior high that work more or less this
09:46way.
09:46Right.
09:47Um, I have like six, six Gary guy, any cards I need to, I need to, I need to say
09:51for sure.
09:53Yeah.
09:54Um, but realistically acquiring Dylan Larkin, I mean, he's a center and he's a good center.
10:00He's about a point per game center, but he's also going to be 30 this summer.
10:03He's had a decent cap hit around what a little over 8 million, I think for another few years.
10:08So in theory, it gives the stars a little bit more cap space, but adding another center
10:11means you're going to have to move one of rope by hints, why Johnson or Matt Duchesne
10:15to the wing.
10:16The stars tried moving Duchesne to the wing this year.
10:18It did not work.
10:19They tried moving the wing on multiple lines.
10:20It just didn't work.
10:21So Duchesne seems more comfortable as a center.
10:23I don't think you can realistically say that a 30 year old Dylan Larkin should displace
10:28rope a hints.
10:29Who's also about to be 30.
10:31Um, I think you can, you can do that.
10:35You can try it, but as we saw with Duchesne, there's no guarantee that moving someone to
10:38the wing will work.
10:39Even if you move Larkin to the wing, and I don't think you want to make a move that
10:42big predicated on the hope that a center being moved to wing is going to make the team
10:47better.
10:48So, and also it should be mentioned Larkin has full control.
10:52And I think the Detroit free press, uh, I think it was Wednesday, James, uh, reported
10:55that the stars aren't necessarily even one of the teams that Larkin would approve a trade
10:58to.
10:59And he has a full no move clause.
11:00So, uh, it might all be a moot point, but you know, it's a nice, it's a nice thought
11:04on, on the more likelihood of things happening.
11:08Do you feel like the stars will kind of move off of that $12 million number to get closer
11:16Robertson's or do you think the negotiation will eventually end somewhere in the 12 million
11:21range?
11:24From where all the math that I've done, the stars could go a little above 12.
11:29And I, I would wager that they would even maybe be willing to go as high as like 13 flat.
11:36If that, if that's absolutely what it would take to keep Robertson.
11:40Um, but anything above that 13 number, I just don't see how it's going to work.
11:45I mean, just, just that 12 and a half or 13 number already means you're going to have
11:48to trade an Ilya Labushkin or someone like that.
11:50You're going to have to trade a Radek Fox or a Sam Steele for a, for a league minimum
11:54contract to fill their spot.
11:56So it's already going to mean kind of taken away from some of your depth at other positions
12:01just to keep a player.
12:03And again, a player who may have had the best season of any left wing in the NHL this year
12:06in Jason Robertson.
12:07So it's not, I think that's, that's easy to forget, but really when you look down, down
12:12the list, Robertson had an incredible year and he's had an incredible career.
12:16Really?
12:16There's a reason that the stars are seriously considering trying to keep him at that 12
12:20number or whatever it might be.
12:21But I do think that getting anywhere much, much above 12 and maybe 13, uh, at the absolute
12:29max, anything above that is kind of a no-go.
12:32So I do think that the most likely outcome is they'll settle on somewhere between that, like
12:36a 12, 12.5, 12.7, something like that seems sort of middle ground.
12:41Uh, but again, a lot of it depends on the details in the contract, how signing bonuses
12:45are structured, all that sort of thing.
12:47Um, that, you know, like any lawyer will tell you, everything comes with consideration,
12:52everything right away, uh, consideration, the other in consideration is just code for money.
12:57Uh, so we'll, we'll see what happens.
12:59Or it feels like another way of saying, whereas, whereas, thank you very much as always for
13:05your varied degree of information that you provide to us stars, thoughts.com for everything
13:11from Robert Tiffin.
13:13We appreciate it, man.
13:15You bet guys.
13:16Enjoy that five mile walk from the Addison Dart station to the, to the arena.
13:21There you go.
13:22Expressing the concerns of the people.
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