- 1 day ago
Robert Tiffin joined the K&C Masterpiece to recap the Stars’ post-season run and the fallout from their series against the Minnesota Wild. Tiffin discussed the team's window under Jim Nill, Jason Robertson’s evolution into an elite forward, the truth behind Miro Heiskanen’s health, and more.
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00K&C Masterpiece right here on 105 Through the Fan.
00:02Right now we bring to you our Dow Stars insider and man who loves Star Wars, at least the original
00:09trilogy.
00:09It is Robert Tiffin. Good afternoon, sir.
00:14Good afternoon. It's a good day for Star Wars takes and I'm happy to have that one attached to my
00:19name.
00:19Okay, so is it more important that I ask what we learned from the Stars media and exit interviews yesterday
00:26or if you're watching Darth Maul's Shadow Lord?
00:32Don't spoil the ending for the latter. I haven't watched the final.
00:35I think they released the final two yet, but so far it was really good.
00:40I don't know if that's exactly what everyone's expecting us to talk about today,
00:43but I have all sorts of takes I can give on that front.
00:45But yeah, so far, honestly, it's been a really good show.
00:47I think a lot of the animated stuff actually is much better than a lot of the live action stuff
00:51more recently.
00:52Text me when you watch the last two. We can discuss.
00:55Will do.
00:55But Darth Vader did show up to the studio yesterday and scared the crap out of Kevin.
01:00He almost cussed on him.
01:01All right, so...
01:02That's a big get. That's a big get for you guys. Wow.
01:05I know, and it was weird. I told my wife this. I don't know what I was expecting.
01:09But Corey goes, can you talk? And he goes, yeah, I can talk.
01:13And I really thought it was going to be like, yes, our crap.
01:17But yeah, he just showed up at the studio and it was freaking awesome.
01:21I told Kevin I'd have a surprise and he goes, awesome, maybe it's Tiff Streets or something.
01:26And then Darth Vader walked in, so...
01:28And I almost said a bad word on air, which I think is justified when Darth Vader was just standing
01:32in the door jam.
01:33All right, now, uncomfortable question to ask at first.
01:39Do you have a fear at all that this run of Dallas Stars hockey is another version of the Joe
01:46Thornton era San Jose Sharks?
01:51I think it's all in how you frame something like that.
01:55Because anyone who's really been around the game a while will tell you there's so much randomness or luck or
02:02whatever you want to call it in the playoffs.
02:03I think that's true of the playoffs in just about any sport, frankly.
02:06Like, yes, generally the best teams will get there.
02:08But look, the Rangers won a World Series in 2023.
02:11I don't think everyone would say they necessarily were out and out the best team in baseball that year.
02:16Especially if you watched them for a lot of that season.
02:18The hell I won't! Don't take that season away from us, Robert!
02:23But in the playoffs, they got everything they needed from their biggest guy.
02:28Well, aside from Scherzer, they got everything they needed from their biggest guys.
02:30And really, that's what you need, right?
02:32The Florida Panthers won a couple of Stanley Cups not by winning present trophies and finishing at the top of
02:36the league,
02:37but getting a ticket to the dance and having a team that was healthy enough and constructed well enough
02:42to withstand what it took to get through their specific playoff path.
02:46I mean, look, go back a year from now.
02:48What would you have said to the Colorado Avalanche, who lost in the first round to the Dallas Stars and
02:53Miko Rantman last year?
02:54They didn't panic and blow it all up and say, uh-oh, our window's closing.
02:57You know, Nathan McKinnon's turning 30.
02:59What are we going to do?
03:00They made some more tweaks, said, you know what?
03:03The playoffs are tough.
03:04The Central Division is a completely unfair gauntlet with whoever you get in the first round.
03:08And they not even retooled it for some very minor tweaks and said, we think we have a good team
03:13at the core.
03:14They came back hungrier.
03:15They got a lot of rest.
03:16They were a lot healthier than a lot of other teams.
03:18And we saw them tear up the NHL all year.
03:20And they swept their first-round series.
03:22And they put up nine goals in the wild the other night.
03:24So, I don't have – there are concerns about the Stars, to be clear.
03:28They're not quite in as good a position, I would say, as the Avalanche in some ways.
03:32But they're not at the end of their window or anything like that.
03:35It's more about can they go from getting that ticket every year to actually going deep in a very, very
03:42tough playoff path.
03:43And that's a tougher question.
03:44It's one you have to wait a full year to answer until April 2027.
03:48So, based on the exit interviews yesterday, did it feel like this offseason with Jason Robertson is a very business
03:55-oriented conversation?
03:58Yeah, that's a good way of putting it, I think.
04:00Really, when he changed agents, he switched agents to Andy Scott, who also represents, I think, Wyatt Johnson and Jake
04:07Ottenger and maybe Nico Rant and also –
04:08And Thomas Harley.
04:10Yeah, maybe Thomas Harley.
04:12I think I have all this right.
04:13But you can Google it easily and yell at me if I'm wrong.
04:16So, when he made that switch to a new agent, I think that was kind of the signal that this
04:22is going to be all about business.
04:23This isn't just a – you know, Jason Robertson wants to be a star for life.
04:27And as long as he gets an eight-year deal, it's double figures.
04:29It's going to be fine.
04:30I think it was always clear.
04:32And look, if you're Jason Robertson, you're entering the back half of your 20s, what, he's 26, I think.
04:37Now is the time to get your big deal, right?
04:39You've played really well for a while.
04:40Now is your chance to basically ensure – you know, it's hard for me to say that for someone who's
04:46been making millions and millions of dollars for a while now.
04:49But, you know, from his perspective in terms of maximizing your career earnings, now is the time to make sure
04:54you get the best deal you can and put yourself in the best situation you can, too.
04:58And he was pretty blunt about that, that he, you know, he wants to play somewhere he can win.
05:03He praised Dallas for how – ever since he's been here, pretty much, it's been a place where you can
05:08win.
05:09But he was also very calculated with his words, not to sound overly committal or anything like that, too, because
05:15I don't think he wants to come off all flowery when he knows there's at least a chance that things
05:21can end the other way.
05:21And I do think there's a chance that he can wind up somewhere else because the numbers are pretty tricky
05:26right now.
05:27Not impossible, but tricky.
05:28The way he played this year was a little different than what we have seen in the past.
05:33I hope it was a development.
05:35I hope it was something to add to what is a great career for him.
05:40Do you think that he can play at the same level that he was this year consistently into the future?
05:47Man, that's the question in every sport, isn't it?
05:49Like, contract your performance versus, okay, now that you've gotten locked up, now that you've got all that security, do
05:55you still have that motivation?
05:56And I believe for some players in some sports, and I've even heard from some people, it can change.
06:02When you don't have that huge motivation, everything to play for, some complacency is possible.
06:07If you don't guard against it, it's possible for that to creep into your game.
06:12For Jason Robertson, I am less worried about that with him because in some ways, some of the things about
06:17him that can make him frustrating at times to fans or other people to watch are the same things I
06:23think that will keep him pushing himself.
06:26He even mentioned yesterday that he worked on his skating.
06:29He called it moving his feet more.
06:32So you can, you know, just define that however you want in terms of improving skating.
06:37Like, the technique is a lot more granular and everything than that.
06:41But he worked with the star strength coach, Mike Donoghue, and some trainers he works with back in Michigan, too,
06:47some private folks that he works with.
06:48And he said they basically collaborated to put together a plan to improve his skating this year.
06:53And he put all the work in, like, starting last summer, they sat down and was like, okay, this is
06:57an area we can improve, and this is how we're going to do it.
07:00And I think we saw that this year.
07:01He was moving his feet more, and we saw it in the playoffs.
07:03He was getting to areas and getting shots through, getting separation.
07:06The sorts of things you can only do when you're really smart and you have the elite hockey IQ that
07:14he has, the elite shot that he has, and playmaking instincts and vision, but also the ability to have enough
07:20space and time to make those plays.
07:22Because in the past, I think we would all agree there were times that looked like he would run out
07:26of that space and time in certain types of games.
07:28And I think Bill Guerin even kind of intimated that's one of the reasons they didn't take him on Team
07:31USA, is because they didn't think he would necessarily be able to handle the fast-paced, heavy-checking style of
07:38hockey that you see at the Olympics or Four Nations or even the playoffs.
07:42And I think in this playoff run, in what was a really tight-checking series, I thought Jason Robertson was
07:47probably their best player.
07:48And that's a big credit to him, and it's something that I think for wherever he ends up, I'm pretty
07:54encouraged that this season shows you what he can be, and he says he believes that you never peak.
08:00That's another thing he said yesterday.
08:02There's no such thing as peaking.
08:03He always wants to get better.
08:04I think science might tell you otherwise, but yeah, it's encouraging.
08:08It was an encouraging sign for me.
08:09I think this year is proof of some really good concepts for him.
08:12And whatever contract he signs, with the Stars or otherwise, it'll be better than the Thomas Harley contract, right?
08:20If better for him, certainly.
08:22I think it's going to be a number higher than the 10.4 or whatever Harley signed for.
08:27But he probably won't be a minus 16 in the last two playoffs like Thomas Harley.
08:32Okay, all right, come on.
08:33I mean, Harley is such an interesting case study because he did not have his best season.
08:38When he signed the contract extension, I remember he came back out after the game.
08:43We did like our standard post-game presser stuff with, you know, the media did.
08:47And he came back out to talk about the contract extension and have the DiGiorno pizza comments and all that.
08:52And he said that making the team, I think it was that conference, or maybe it was a different time,
08:58but he said that he was actually worried about making Team Canada because he had played so poorly to start
09:02the year.
09:03Like, he himself has admitted, yeah, this was not his best year.
09:05And even though in the playoffs, I don't think he was, like, actively bad in the playoffs at all.
09:11It's not like he was turning over the puck all the time or anything.
09:15He wasn't the sort of difference maker the Stars were hoping he would be,
09:19and certainly not the sort of difference maker that the two defensemen in the wild were in Brock Faber and
09:23Quinn Hughes.
09:24And that's kind of the standard when you sign a deal like that.
09:26You don't have to be Quinn Hughes, but you need to at least be close to Brock Faber, right?
09:30You need to be a dangerous player who's forcing the other teams to do more defending.
09:35And instead, I think we saw that he just wasn't able to use his skills to the extent that he
09:41can.
09:42So I think Jason Robertson, as a forward, there's a little bit less responsibility,
09:47and that means there's a little bit more upside in terms of fans.
09:50But I also think Jason Robertson is a pretty underrated defensive player, too.
09:54And I think all the kind of underlying numbers bear that out.
09:56So, yeah, I'm actually optimistic about both of those contracts in the long term,
10:00just because we've seen what both those players can do.
10:02But, yeah, Harley didn't have his best season this year, and I think he'd be the first in with that.
10:07I don't know if it's the Stars or maybe it's more the fan base.
10:10Do you think we need to reset expectations on Miro in terms of he's a very good player,
10:18but perhaps he'll just never be the elite, elite player that, at one point, a lot of us thought he
10:25was going to be?
10:28One thing, in terms of putting his playoff performance in context,
10:32and I actually thought he played fairly well in the playoffs.
10:34Oh, I would agree. Fairly well.
10:37In the Stars, yeah.
10:37Yeah. But, again, looking at the two defensemen on the other side of the ice in that Minnesota series,
10:43it was kind of hard to argue that their best two defensemen looked a lot better than the Stars' two
10:47best defensemen.
10:48And they were controlling games and dictating play a lot more.
10:51And that's been a part of Hayskinen's game over the last few years that Golutson said it this year,
10:58and I believe Devor even said it last year, that they'd love to see Miro be a little bit more,
11:03you know,
11:04alpha or aggro or whatever you want to call it, and make those sorts of plays, right?
11:09Be that guy who says, I have the puck, I'm going to make a move, I'm going to embarrass you,
11:13and I'm going to force you to be really, really scared every time I have the puck.
11:16And I don't think Miro, sometimes when he's coming up the ice during transition play,
11:21he'll be able to kind of head fake a guy or shoulder fake him and lose him in the neutral
11:25zone,
11:25and that's great. Less so in the offensive zone.
11:28And I think that's something that, especially when the Stars are in the series they were against Minnesota,
11:33where they're really having trouble turning offensive zone possession into offensive zone scoring,
11:38I think you need a player like that to make some plays.
11:41And will he ever be that player? I'm not sure.
11:44I will say, Hayskinen told me yesterday, I was talking to him,
11:47and he told me that he indeed suffered an oblique injury at the end of the,
11:51he tore an oblique muscle at the end of the regular season,
11:53so he was playing with that in the playoffs.
11:55Yikes.
11:57So, you know, it's not like it was preventing him from skating or anything,
12:02but I do wonder if that maybe was a factor on some level.
12:07Players are never going to use it as an excuse.
12:09I know I would be worse than anything I'm doing with a torn oblique muscle.
12:12Even writing, yeah.
12:13I don't know if hockey would qualify.
12:15Yeah, yeah.
12:16And you're a fantastic writer, so.
12:19StarsThoughts.com.
12:20Now, the Miko news yesterday was kind of, it was kind of crazy,
12:26but then I tried to kind of mentally go back to what we discussed earlier in the year with Duchesne,
12:31and you and I, we were having that discussion of, hey, where is he?
12:35And you were like, interestingly enough, I'm about to write about this.
12:38And then all of a sudden, Duchesne takes back off.
12:41Miko not being injured was kind of a surprise to a lot of us,
12:45based on he just wasn't very as existent as we expected him to be in the whole series.
12:52I think it's important to clarify exactly what was said yesterday.
12:58Miko was asked about his injuries, and he said,
13:01well, I don't really like to talk about injuries, but that's okay.
13:03So he basically declined to go into detail.
13:05He did say, my body felt good, my power felt good.
13:10But then we pressed him a little bit more towards the end of his availability,
13:14and Miko did say, you know, the timing of getting hurt at the Olympics was tough
13:21because he felt like he was in really good form before the Olympics,
13:23and then he felt like he never got back to that form after the Olympics.
13:27And maybe a player is never going to admit that that is because of the injury
13:30and all of the consequences of one injury and how that can affect other things.
13:35And anyone who's ever had to go through any kind of rehab process
13:38knows that there's usually other effects, you know, cascading effects of a big injury,
13:43especially one as big as it looked like it probably was, knee or whatever it was in the Olympics.
13:48Glenn Golutson said something similar to that effect, that, you know, he was medically cleared,
13:52so it's not like he was playing with a, you know, a torn ligament or torn oblique or something like
13:57that,
13:58but also that he wasn't quite where he had been.
14:01And again, anyone who watched that series, that wasn't Miko Rantanen that we were seeing early in the season
14:05who was leading the league in assists.
14:07That wasn't Miko Rantanen who single-handedly beat Colorado last year.
14:10It was very obvious that he wasn't at full capacity, whether that was injury or in his head
14:15or the series or the usage or I mean, I don't know what it was,
14:18but it's hard for me to be too concerned about Rantanen based on that
14:23because it seemed pretty clear to me he wasn't 100% for whatever reason.
14:27I think we all agree that Jim Nill is a damn fine GM.
14:33It does at times feel like nobody dares ever say anything, even approaching a negative word about him.
14:42How do you feel like the ownership group feels about Jim Nill?
14:46Where is their patience at with him?
14:48Because they've been a really good team, but man, they've been a really good team for a really long time
14:52without actually winning.
14:55Yeah, I wrote about this over the weekend about if you're Tom Gilardi,
14:58if you're the owner of the Dallas Stars, how do you, what are the questions that you're asking right now?
15:03How do you view this exit?
15:05Is it easy for you to just write it off and say, oh yeah, we weren't fully healthy
15:08and it's a tough playoff path and you know, you just get your ticket every year
15:11and after that it's kind of up to the players and a little bit of luck
15:15or do you have some tougher questions?
15:17And I think the first thing that you would ask probably is we spent assets,
15:21the trade deadline, just draft picks and no first round picks,
15:23but still we spent draft picks at the trade deadline to get Tyler Myers and Michael Bunting
15:27and both of them were healthy scratch for one or a lot of games in the series in Bunting's case.
15:34How was that the best use of those assets?
15:37It's hard not to look at Jim Nill's trade deadline and say, you know what?
15:40That didn't work very well.
15:41The Stars ended up needing a top four defenseman when Mills Lundquist went down
15:45and Tyler Myers was, it's hard to say it, but his play was pretty disastrous.
15:51When he was asked to step up in that game and even in game one, a little bit as well.
15:55Myers really had trouble being that reliable defenseman
15:58and Alex Petrovic ended up coming in in game six because he couldn't do it.
16:02And then if you're the owner, don't you say, wait a minute.
16:05This is like when the kids want McDonald's and you say, no, we have McDonald's at home.
16:08We had Alex Petrovic at home, right?
16:10We had him already.
16:11Why did we really need to go out and get Tyler Myers?
16:14Why not save those assets and try to find a more sustainable solution,
16:18extra help on the defense over the summer or something like that?
16:22And in fairness, Myers is here next year too.
16:24He signed for one more year and at 1.5 million.
16:27So my guess is they'll try to move a player like Ilya Labushkin
16:29and Myers is actually part of a solution to clear more cap space.
16:32So it wasn't just about what Myers could bring last year.
16:36And it was also about this year.
16:37But yeah, I think you really have to say Jim Nill's moves to the trade deadline
16:42didn't really go as well as you would have hoped they would this year.
16:46And he has to wear that, right, ultimately.
16:48And he would be the first one to say it, that he has to own that.
16:50They didn't work out very well this year.
16:52And then lastly for me, Glenn Gullitson,
16:57what do you think the biggest thing he learned this year
17:00and this playoff run was for him?
17:03Did he have any thoughts on continuing to grow as that head coach here?
17:09He said something really interesting yesterday,
17:11which was that something he never really brought up with the media
17:16was some concerns about their neutral zone play during the year.
17:20And he actually said that they had contemplated or even discussed
17:23maybe making a change to their system to address some of their neutral zone play.
17:27And they ended up not making it.
17:30And after this series, he said, you know what?
17:32Probably should have made that change.
17:34So he said they're going to implement that change.
17:35Obviously, he didn't go into all the details about it,
17:37but we'll get a chance to see what that looks like on the ice
17:40and training camp in September, I'm sure.
17:42But he said that that's something they kind of felt like
17:45they saw coming down the tracks.
17:47Now, again, it's hard for me to give a coach too much credit for that
17:51because you're basically admitting you saw a problem
17:53and didn't address it in time.
17:54Right, yeah.
17:55So that certainly is a lesson.
17:57But also, you don't want to panic either.
17:59And I'm sure in your first year back with a team like this,
18:03the last thing you want to be doing is making big system changes
18:05multiple times throughout the year.
18:06You don't want to be panicking or being perceived as panicking.
18:09So it's tricky.
18:10But it sounds to me like you learn the lesson that pay attention.
18:14You know, when something's on your radar, pay attention to it.
18:17And better to fix it a day too early than a day too late.
18:20I know, Corey, we've mentioned this before,
18:22but you and I both very much agree with this.
18:26StarsThoughts.com, where Robert runs everything,
18:29is a great place to educate yourself on all things stars and hockey.
18:34Man, thank you very much for the time again today.
18:38You bet.
18:39You bet.
18:40Especially on Star Wars Day.
18:41Now, I have some homework,
18:42so I'll go ahead and catch up on Maul
18:44and hope to be better educated next time we talk.
18:46And, hey, text me.
18:48Let me know what you think.
18:50Will do.
18:50I'm sure it'll be positive.
18:51There you go, Robert Tiffin.
Comments