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Catching Up With the Royals Season 1 Episode 18
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00:00Hello and welcome to Catching Up With The Royals, the show that never complains but always explains, with me, Richard
00:06Coles.
00:07And me, Emily Andrews. We've got a battle royale for you in today's show as Richard and I will be
00:12discussing the potential turbulence between the House of Wales and the House of Sussex if and when Harry and Meghan
00:20return to the UK in July.
00:22If I were the Prince of Wales, I would not want them to be driving their tanks onto my lawn.
00:28I mean, if they do come in July and do a kind of British rerun of what they did in
00:34Australia, it is a little bit thrown down the gauntlet. Are they a threat to William and Catherine?
00:40Plus, we'll be asking how the royal family navigate the world of artificial intelligence and combat the fake news that
00:46so often comes with it.
00:48It's a wash with fake images of the royals, Richard.
00:51These are so lifelike that if you didn't know what you were looking at, you could easily mistake it for
00:56real.
00:56And as Royal Garden Party season concludes, we'll be chatting you through what it's really like to attend one and
01:03all the behind-the-scenes secrets that always ensures they're a success.
01:08For those of us who are not fortunate enough to be invited to a garden party, I suggest you take
01:12a number 38 bus to Victoria and you can look over the wall as you go past.
01:22Welcome back to Catching Up With The Royals. How are you, Richard?
01:26Well, I'm all right, thank you very much. How are you, Emily?
01:28Oh, good, thank you. Looking forward to talking about garden parties later.
01:32Garden parties are always good. We've had a question from Doreen. Hello, Doreen. Thanks so much for your question.
01:36I am concerned, she says, about the portrayal of the royal family members on social media.
01:41I've seen lots of clips of royals falling over, crying and despairing, which at first was quite worrying, but since
01:47realised it must be AI, artificial intelligence.
01:50The new chapter in photography, what's going on?
01:53What's so scary, Richard, with AI, which stands for artificial intelligence, is that it's not a composite.
01:58This is not lots and lots of different pictures.
02:01Not like Photoshop.
02:02No, it's not like Photoshop, where you've got an existing image and you've doctored it slightly, just to sort of
02:07try and explain if you are looking, or even if you're just served through the algorithm.
02:13It's awash with fake images of the royals, Richard.
02:16I've seen some really egregious ones, actually.
02:19There's an awful, well, it was awful, but also slightly mesmerising, strangely mesmerising, of a video of Princess Diana eating
02:27her favourite foods.
02:28Now, I don't even think that they were necessarily her favourite foods.
02:32It was watercress soup and tomato mousse and bread and butter pudding.
02:37I can't believe bread and butter pudding was ever Princess Diana's favourite food.
02:40But this whole kind of video, it lasts for about two minutes, is, and it looks like Princess Diana, in
02:47different outfits, eating these meals.
02:51It's entirely fake, entirely created through AI, but it looks like she's at a state banquet, she's at a restaurant,
02:58she's in her house, eating all these meals.
03:00Why?
03:01I don't know, for clicks, people make this and they put it on their social media platforms, and then they
03:08get clicks, and then they get money through advertising.
03:11But there's also pictures of Prince Harry and William hugging.
03:15I mean, I think that had something like over hundreds of thousands of clicks.
03:19Oh, I saw one of Prince William dissolves into tears as he hugs his brother.
03:23It's the reconciliation that people are looking for, but it's completely fake.
03:26It's completely fake.
03:27And people are making these videos and or pictures because they get clicked and retweeted and retweeted,
03:34and then people, that engagement means money.
03:37I see.
03:37And so, and it's fake news, and it's absolutely fake news.
03:41It's not just a faked picture.
03:43These are so lifelike that if you didn't know what you were looking at, you could easily mistake it for
03:49real.
03:49Yeah, I mean, I've been covering the royals for, what, 15 years now?
03:52And I saw a picture on Instagram the other day, and it was Charlotte and Kate.
03:58And I thought, oh, that's a lovely picture.
04:01I haven't seen that picture before.
04:03And then I thought, and I was like, oh, I wonder where it's from.
04:05I wonder where is it, you know.
04:06I was like, oh, my goodness.
04:08It took me at least 10, 20 seconds to realise it was AI.
04:12Kate became one of several high-profile victims of an AI tool on X, formerly known as Twitter,
04:17that allows users to create undressed images of people without their consent.
04:21I mean, it really is the kind of Wild West out there in some respects.
04:26It's the bottom.
04:27Oh, it's just a bottomless.
04:28It is a bit of a bottomless.
04:29Yes.
04:29Yeah.
04:30But what can the royals do?
04:31Well, I think even before this sort of, even before AI became so widespread and widely used within the last
04:42year, two years, especially pictorial AI,
04:44the royals have been very controlled in terms of what images they release.
04:49So, for instance, the reason I knew pretty quickly that that image of Catherine and Charlotte was fake was because
04:56any picture of Catherine and William and their children is either at a royal engagement where they bring their children
05:02or it's released by them.
05:03So, artificial intelligence is not a composite.
05:06It's a creation.
05:07It's an entirely fake artificial video or picture that's being created via a computer.
05:14And that's what's so scary because you could put me on the moon.
05:18You could actually create, for instance, in all seriousness, you could create a really credible picture of me as an
05:24astronaut landing on the moon and it would look entirely real.
05:26I mean, I wouldn't put it past you anyway.
05:29That was my childhood dream.
05:31Was it really?
05:32To be an astronaut.
05:32That's why it obviously came to my head.
05:35Never going to be fulfilled, sadly, but...
05:36I mean, there's a real issue here, Slippy.
05:38Well, on the one hand, for example, those manipulated or created images, rather, used for commercial exploitation, but it's where
05:45things might be real.
05:47If it were politically sensitive or if it were commercially sensitive, then you've got a real problem.
05:52How can we tell the difference between the real thing and the AI thing?
05:55Well, I think that's why the royals have to be really clear in their communications.
06:02So anything on their official social media pages or on the royal website is an official picture.
06:12It's an actual picture.
06:14It's actually them.
06:15Because as you say, I think when Harry and Meghan were in Australia, some enterprising businesses tried to use AI
06:20pictures of them in their shops or businesses or whatever to try and drum up clicks or business.
06:27I remember some enterprising skincare company making comments about Kate, who was then the Duchess of Cambridge, having Botox just
06:38to try and get more engagement and more sort of drive sales effectively.
06:44So I think it's something that the palace have always been aware of, even before AI.
06:49And certainly when for us in the sort of as royal journalists and when you're in the royal rota, I
06:56mean, I remember being given relatively recently private guidance from Kensington Palace just to be really careful and sensitive when
07:03we're writing about George, Charlotte and Louis, who are children.
07:06Be very careful, be very careful even how we describe them.
07:10What would my advice to Doreen be?
07:12Follow reputable journalists.
07:15Look, try and trace back the sourcing of things.
07:18And if in doubt, go and look on the royal family's websites and social media.
07:24The press are heavily regulated.
07:26We, this, this, this, what we're doing, Richard, we are heavily legaled and heavily regulated.
07:31The internet is not.
07:34It is a Wild West.
07:35And so if you're being served something, the chances are it is fake.
07:40And it's a reminder of why, even though mainstream media is kind of constantly slagged off, there's a reason for
07:45it.
07:45The reason is there is a triage built into it, which means that what's presented to you has been tested
07:49for its accuracy and reliability.
07:51Absolutely.
07:52Fact-checked, legaled, you know, we've had to make sure, checked all our sources.
07:57And there's a lot of work and effort goes into that.
07:59Any old Herbert can, you know, create an AI picture and say, pass it off as real.
08:06I just wonder if people think my six-pack wasn't real.
08:10I'll create you an AI six-pack, Richard.
08:12There you go.
08:12That's a good use for artificial intelligence, is it?
08:15I think it's important to point out, Richard, as well, that when we say AI images,
08:19it is an actual person who is putting in the prompts to AI, you know, Gemini, ChatGPT, you know, Claude,
08:28whatever your, you know, whatever your platform of choice is.
08:31But it's a human person who is writing the, you know, please make a video of the late Queen Elizabeth
08:38rapping and use these words and use these lyrics.
08:41And I want her dressed in the dress that she wore to the opening of the Olympic Games in 2012.
08:47Do you know what I mean?
08:47You can be really, really, really specific in how you want your image to look.
08:51And then the computer will create that.
08:53So this is not just some random computer generation of Princess Diana eating her food.
08:58This is a human being who sat there and asked for all of this information to be, to create this
09:04visual image, presumably so that they can put it on their own social media page for clicks, engagements, money.
09:11And a very dangerous weapon in the hands of someone who means you ill, right?
09:15Thank you so much, Doreen, for that really interesting question.
09:17It's really made, Richard, and I think if you would like Richard and I to answer any of your burning
09:22questions, please do email royals at spirit-studios.com.
09:27Well, we shall report on this in due course, I dare say.
09:29We will.
09:30Have you got a question?
09:31I've got a question for you.
09:33Do you know, Richard, when the first official photo of the royal family was taken and who was in it?
09:47So we asked you a question before the break.
09:51Richard, do you know when the first official photo of the royal family was taken?
09:57Oh, it would be very early, about 1840?
10:00Oh, well done.
10:01Very good.
10:031842.
10:03Oh, not bad, is it?
10:04Yeah, very good.
10:05Yeah.
10:05The earliest official photographs of the royal family was taken in 1842 when Queen Victoria and Prince Albert commissioned portraits
10:11to capture their family.
10:13Albert, in particular, was a keen photography enthusiast.
10:16Yeah, I mean, it changed the world, the way they looked at the world, photography, a huge thing when that
10:20came in the 1830s and 40s.
10:22Yeah, amazing, really.
10:23We need to discuss the rather more contentious area of royal infidelities, if I can put it that way.
10:28Oh, gosh.
10:29Are we getting saucy?
10:31Well, normally, it's 30 years since the divorce of the then Prince and Princess of Wales.
10:38God, that's going back a bit now, isn't it?
10:40But Charles and Diana, I mean.
10:41And I think 26 years since the Queen extended, sort of informally at first, her sort of blessing upon his
10:48relationship with the present Queen, Camilla.
10:51Yes, that's right. It was at a party, the 60th birthday party for King Constantine of Greece, a distant relative.
10:58Dear Conley.
10:59He was having a 60th birthday party, a distant relative, well, actually not so distant relative of Prince Philip, the
11:04Duke of Edinburgh.
11:04And it was his 60th birthday party.
11:06And the then Prince of Wales, Charles, hosted a birthday party at Highgrave House.
11:13And he extended two invitations, Richard, one to his mother, the Queen, Queen Elizabeth, and the other one to his
11:19partner, one Camilla Parker Bowles.
11:23And, of course, this was the first invitation to a kind of society engagement.
11:29I mean, it wasn't public.
11:30It was a private party, but the Queen was going to be there.
11:33Now, of course, you know, Queen Elizabeth had known Camilla for a long time.
11:37I think she'd even been to her wedding to Andrew Parker Bowles.
11:39But this was the first time that she had been to an event where her son's girlfriend was going to
11:49be.
11:49Yes. And toleration would always be extended towards people in unconventional relationships, but not formally recognised.
11:57That was the big change, was it?
11:58It was formally recognising a relationship that previously wouldn't have been.
12:02The Queen, a Supreme Governor of the Church of England, would be mindful of the Church's teaching on marriage.
12:07And it's changed a bit from how it used to be.
12:12But nonetheless, that's quite a significant change in her lifetime and reign.
12:15If you wanted to marry a divorcee in church, and I remember this with one of my best friends.
12:21She married a chap who'd been previously married, and they had to get special permission.
12:27So going back to the beginning of the 21st century, what was the position?
12:30I mean, it was only 26 years ago, but what was the position of marrying a divorcee in the church?
12:33Well, marriage used to be considered lifelong, exclusive and indissoluble, but then it sort of changed.
12:39You can have annulments in the Roman Catholic Church if the marriage wasn't considered valid.
12:42And then in the Church of England, it was only fairly recently, actually, the legislation was changed,
12:46which allowed the minister, at his or her discretion, to marry couples who'd been married before when both partners of
12:53the previous marriage were living.
12:54And the reason is, is you make vows in your wedding that are faithful and exclusive and for all eternity
13:00before God.
13:01So it was felt that that had to be upheld.
13:03But then people understand that human life is sometimes a bit messy, and you want people to get their best
13:10chance at happiness.
13:10And that goes as much for members of the royal family as for anybody else.
13:14And, I mean, there is a long history of Prince of Wales' having other partners.
13:21Is that the right euphemism?
13:22I mean, I think the other reason, I think, for royal marriages were often dynastic and weren't matters of the
13:27heart,
13:27and that people's affections were my life.
13:29I mean, Edward VII was famous for his mistresses, who he was known about within his own lifetime,
13:35although it was not formally recognised.
13:37Charles II, absolutely streets ahead of all the other, the merry monarch.
13:41The whole point about marriage, particularly in the aristocracy or monarchy,
13:45the whole point was dynastic, and the whole point was to have children.
13:48And once the partnership had fulfilled that, then it was kind of,
13:53wasn't it kind of carte blanche that you could go and sort of do what you wanted?
13:56Well, I think there was no expectation that people wouldn't seek such pleasures and comforts as they might, really.
14:03Is it the Victorians that we have to blame for this puritanical kind of,
14:07you must stay with one person forever?
14:08Well, no, because Edward VII, who was, you know, the monarch who succeeded Victoria,
14:11was the most notorious philanderer of more recent times.
14:15I mean, notorious philanderer, but he was famous.
14:17I mean, his, and that weird thing where you get the mistresses are sort of sometimes officially
14:22or sometimes kind of semi-officially recognised.
14:25Mrs. Keppel, interestingly, the great-grandmother of Queen Camilla.
14:29Yeah.
14:29She was a famous mistress.
14:31I hate the word, but you know what I mean, of Edward VII.
14:32So Lily Langtree, the actress of her day, she was a mistress of Edward VII, who had plenty of mistresses.
14:38We're talking about his reign was from 1901 to about 1910 or thereabouts, I think.
14:43Charles II, not only did he have lots of mistresses, but he had lots of children by them.
14:47And they were bunged dukedoms and duchessdoms willy-nilly.
14:52So they were acknowledged and given titles and status within, although not succession.
14:57No, crucially, it's like Henry VIII actually had a son or was reputed to have had a son out of
15:04wedlock.
15:05And he was Henry Fitzsimmons.
15:07But of course, he Fitz, I think, being the sort of, at the time, the signifier that showed son of,
15:13exactly, of the king.
15:14Obviously, he was not in the line of succession, much to Henry VIII's chagrin.
15:19But I think it's interesting because my inference, and I've never been so uncouth, Richard, as to ask our now
15:26queen.
15:27But my inference is that actually Camilla quite liked holding the position of mistress.
15:35Bear with me on this, rather than having to do all the sort of work that goes with being married
15:40to the heir and now the monarch.
15:41Now, obviously, being mistress to Charles, I think they had three, there were three separate points where she and Charles
15:49had a relationship.
15:50The first time was when, was when Charles was still single.
15:55He obviously fell madly in love with her.
15:56She had just split with Andrew Parker Bowles.
15:58They had a relationship, but then he went off to the Navy.
16:01And then by the time he came back, Camilla had married Andrew Parker Bowles.
16:04The second time was when, again, when Charles was still single, hadn't yet married Diana.
16:09And he and Camilla struck up, again, their relationship.
16:12Now, I think, if memory serves me correctly, by this point, Camilla had had both her children.
16:16But then Charles and Camilla agreed that they should not see each other again at all, I think.
16:23They broke off all contact when Charles married Diana.
16:26And there was that kind of, I think, infamous set of cufflinks that Camilla gave Charles as a wedding present
16:31that Diana then found.
16:33Just before they got married with the intertwined seas.
16:36She didn't enjoy the opprobrium, obviously, of being Charles' mistress.
16:40And there was all the kind of, you know, the recordings and the tabloid, you know, headlines, which we won't
16:44go into, of the kind of 90s and things like that.
16:47But it was kind of fun and enjoyment without the responsibility.
16:53If you think of mistresses of the king who've been made up to queen in the past, I think the
16:58example of Henry VIII would not encourage you to think that that might always be for your benefit, right?
17:02No, exactly.
17:04But also, see, some of the royal mistresses are absolutely smashing.
17:06I think if you go back to Charles II, Barbara Villas, amazing person.
17:13Nell Gwynn, the most famous of all, you know, by reputant, orange seller from Covent Garden, some have said also
17:19was what we would now call a hospitality worker, if I could put it that way.
17:24And an actress.
17:25I mean, an extraordinary relationship, but absolutely the toast of London, witty, charming, funny.
17:31And also knew how to get to her best advantage out of this relationship with the king.
17:37Although she was kind of knocked back by, what was her name, Louise de Queirois, the French noblewoman who came
17:43along and rather supplanted her.
17:44Although she was rude to her, she used to call her the weeping willow, because apparently she kept bursting into
17:48tears.
17:49I think that Camilla, if stories are to be believed, when she first met Charles at a polo match, she
17:55said something like,
17:56I believe my great-grandmother knew your great-grandfather.
18:01So, of course, her great-grandmother, Alice Keppel, was a long-standing mistress of Edward VII.
18:08And so she's always had that kind of sense of fun.
18:13She obviously, when she and Charles rekindled their relationship for the third time and Charles and Diana were still married,
18:21once that became known, and it wasn't for some time, Charles and Camilla managed to kind of keep it under
18:27wraps
18:27and met each other at friends' houses and that kind of thing.
18:31Once that spilled out into the public consciousness, she was the most hated woman in Britain.
18:36There's that apocryphal story.
18:37It's not true, by the way, it's an actress.
18:39There's an apocryphal story that she was pelted with bread rolls in Waitrose.
18:43It was not true.
18:44It was an actress that was hired by a newspaper.
18:46But, you know, that story kind of stuck.
18:47And every time I went on tour to Australia or Canada or America, people on the plane sitting next to
18:55me would be like,
18:55oh, but that Camilla woman, she's awful.
18:57I mean, it was – so her reputation was really, really bad.
19:00And I guess the PRs of the time at Clarence House, Mark Boland and his team,
19:07had a real job to try and turn such a negative outlook against her around.
19:14And then, of course, June 1994, Charles was interviewed by his biographer, Jonathan Dimbleby,
19:22and he asked him about Camilla.
19:25Now, the two men must have agreed that beforehand, but Dimbleby asked about Camilla.
19:31And Charles said, and what about Mrs Parker Bowles?
19:34Are you having a relationship with her?
19:36And he said, yes, yes, until it became irretrievably broken down, us both having tried.
19:43What he meant was, Charles, he didn't start or rekindle his relationship with Camilla Parker Bowles
19:49until the marriage with Diana had irretrievably broken down.
19:53And when asked about his relationship with Camilla, he said she's been a friend for a very long time
19:58and will continue to be a friend for a very long time.
20:00But actually, that interview in 1994 did have some, there's some merit, I would suggest,
20:06in saying that that interview helped convince Diana to do her own with Panorama in 1995.
20:14And that infamous, there's three of us in the marriage.
20:16You want to say something?
20:18Well, I can say something.
20:19Exactly.
20:20Because the old days, of course, it was expected that, you know, the mistress would be discreet
20:26and that the monarch would have his pleasure as and when he wanted it.
20:29And it was considered, I mean, people queued up to become the king's mistress,
20:32not just in Britain, but in France and all sorts of places.
20:36What I will say about famous people in general, Richard,
20:39is that there are always huge amounts of rumours, conspiracy theories.
20:46Often, they are wrong.
20:4899.9% of the time, they're wrong.
20:50Don't forget, you can catch us wherever you get your social media from,
20:53on YouTube on a Thursday and, of course, on Saturday on 5.
20:57You've got a question for us.
20:59Yes, and it's to the point.
21:00We're talking House of Wales versus the House of New Sussex next.
21:04But do you know where and when William and Kate first met Meghan Markle?
21:10Answer after this.
21:18Welcome back to Catching Up with the Royals.
21:20We left you with a question.
21:21When did Meghan Markle first meet William and Kate,
21:25Duke and Duchess of Cambridge at the time?
21:26Well, do you know the answer?
21:27You probably do.
21:28I think I do.
21:29They met in Kensington Palace.
21:33Well, actually, Meghan first met William at Apartment 1A,
21:36and that was in 2016.
21:41Well, no.
21:43Oh!
21:43Well, I mean, yes, I'm sure you're right.
21:45But they, plural, first met Meghan in 2016 at Nottingham Cottage.
21:50It was the cottage in the grounds of Kensington Palace,
21:52where I think Prince Harry lived.
21:53Is that right?
21:53That's right.
21:54Not caught.
21:55Do you remember the deeply, deeply, deeply shocking element to that?
22:00I do.
22:00This is from Spare, Harry's biography.
22:02Remind us, because it's definitely worth reminding.
22:04Meghan was wearing ripped jeans and was barefoot.
22:07Barefoot.
22:08And according to the biography, she kind of hugged everybody, too.
22:13And they weren't quite prepared for that, I think.
22:15No.
22:15Harry writes, doesn't he, about basically, I mean, he doesn't use this terminology,
22:19but the gist of it is, is that Kate was, like, dressed up to the nines,
22:23looking all prim and proper.
22:24And there was Meg in her, like, Californian bare feet,
22:26and her ripped jeans and her white shirt.
22:28And it was all, like, very, like, hi, call me Meg.
22:30It was just such a kind of, like, culture clash right from the start.
22:34Culture clash is interesting, isn't it?
22:36Because if, you know, maybe that tells us something about the future rift
22:40between the brothers that was going to come.
22:41But do you think there is any likelihood of that rift being healed anytime soon?
22:45And what opportunities are there for such a reconciliation?
22:49Well, one year to go for the Invictus Games in Birmingham,
22:53and the Invictus Games is being held in the UK for the first time since its inception.
22:59And it's one year to go.
23:00And hitherto, Harry and Meghan have always done the one year to go kind of...
23:06Like the kick-off.
23:07Kick-off.
23:08So I guess the question here is, in Australia,
23:13Harry and Meghan trialled their half-in, half-out blueprint.
23:18If we cast our minds back to January 2020 and the Sandringham Summit,
23:23when Harry and Meghan were trying to negotiate their exit as working royals,
23:27Megxit, as it then became known,
23:30the Queen, the late Queen, was very adamant that there can be no half-in, half-out.
23:37She knew that if you earn your own money, then you cannot be a working royal.
23:43And really, you can't have titles.
23:45It's why, we've said this before,
23:47it's why Princess Anne decided not to give titles to her children, Zara and Peter.
23:53You don't want to be ever accused of commercialising or cashing in on those titles.
23:59And so Harry and Meghan, quite understandably, really enjoyed their time in Australia.
24:05It was quite high profile.
24:07They did a lot of public engagements.
24:08They didn't have to do any of those public engagements.
24:09They could have just gone, done their money-making activities and then gone home again.
24:13They did a lot of public engagements.
24:15A lot of people really enjoyed them, Richard.
24:17Are they a threat to William and Catherine?
24:20Do you know what?
24:21If I were managing this, if I were the Prince of Wales,
24:24I would not want them to be driving their tanks onto my lawn.
24:29What do you think?
24:30I mean, if they do come in July and do a kind of British rerun of what they did in
24:36Australia,
24:36it is a little bit thrown down the gauntlet to William and Kate.
24:39Because, I mean, I think they did a really good job in Australia.
24:41I am quite critical of Meghan with her clothes, putting, you know, all of her clothes from her engagements on
24:49a website.
24:50Not for sale, should I say, but I mean...
24:53No, she's earning commission.
24:55She's literally flogging the clothes from her back and using those charity visits to do that.
25:00I find that personally a bit distasteful.
25:02If she did that here in the UK, I think, can you imagine what the Daily Mail would say?
25:06I mean, they'd love it, be, you know, clickbait forever.
25:09But I don't think she would be well advised, Meghan, to not do that while she was here in the
25:15UK.
25:16Let's say for all intents and purposes that Harry and Meghan's team reach out to a whole load of charities,
25:21say, can we come and visit you?
25:22Can we come and visit you?
25:22Some charities will say, oh, goodness, no, we don't want that.
25:25We don't upset the actual working royals, the king, the princess of Wales, etc.
25:30Other charities might think, wow, it's going to be great publicity.
25:34We want to raise money.
25:35We want more exposure.
25:36Of course we want Harry and Meghan to come.
25:38And then actually on the ground, Harry and Meghan are great.
25:41They've shown that they're really, really good at the job.
25:43The other thing, it's actually in Harry and Meghan's interest not to tread on their toes, I think.
25:48Because just as they might take attention away from Catherine and William,
25:52then William and Catherine might take attention away from them.
25:55So I'd keep those two things separate, I think.
25:56Some people have said that Harry and Meghan should lose their titles.
26:00They shouldn't be the Duke and Duchess of Sussex and he shouldn't be Prince Harry
26:05if they're going to use those royal titles effectively to make money.
26:11Well, he is Prince Harry, whether you want him to be or not.
26:15He is the son of the monarch, as indeed Prince Andrew, Andrew Marbatten-Winsor,
26:19who's now conventionally called him.
26:21And you can change the way you address them, but they still are who they are, I think.
26:24So do you think then that even if they didn't have their titles,
26:29people would still want them to go and speak at conferences
26:31or be paid for interviews or all of that kind of thing?
26:34If you're into that sort of thing, then you probably like the more letters
26:37before and after the name, the better.
26:40But...
26:40Is it old-fashioned?
26:41Was it old-fashioned of Queen Elizabeth to be so adamant about you can't be half in,
26:47half out?
26:47Do you think that what Harry and Meghan are trying to prove,
26:51that you can earn your own money and you can do public service?
26:56It's a work in progress, isn't it?
26:58I'm not sure there's a coherent answer to that yet.
27:02Because Edward and Sophie did try and do that.
27:04I mean, people have tried to do this before.
27:05Edward and Sophie tried to do it.
27:07It went slightly disastrously wrong when Sophie got stitched up,
27:11her PR business got stitched up,
27:12and she was recorded kind of, you know, calling the late Queen an old dear.
27:16I mean, in the grand scheme of things, she didn't really do anything wrong.
27:19But the result of it was, was that she had to shutter her PR business
27:23and she had to become a full-time working royal.
27:25And I suppose that keeps things very clean, right?
27:29It keeps the parameters very clean.
27:31Public service is public service.
27:33You're not acting for your own self-interest.
27:35You're acting for the good of the charity or the good of the country
27:39or et cetera, et cetera.
27:40I guess maybe part of this as well is about control.
27:43Because, of course, if you're within the institution,
27:45you kind of have to abide by the institution's rules and regulations.
27:49You are doing it for other people.
27:51You have to be very careful whose money you accept.
27:53There's a lot of kind of strictures.
27:55And so Harry and Meghan, if they're just doing what they want,
27:58they're getting all the good stuff.
27:59They're getting loads of freebies.
28:01And, you know, Harry fulfilling his kind of service mentality.
28:06I mean, are they having their cake and eating it?
28:08Another element is, of course, personal.
28:10It is said by some that Prince William can harbour a grudge
28:15and that he's so offended and so hurt by his brother's behaviour
28:19that he's not very close to even wishing for reconciliation.
28:23They don't have anyone.
28:24I don't know.
28:24Well, I think there's some merit to that, Richard.
28:28There does seem to be some steel in Prince William.
28:30Yes, very much steel, I would say.
28:34And I don't think he's very forgiving.
28:36And I think the way he's reacted,
28:38what we've seen the way he's reacted,
28:39is just to basically cut his brother out.
28:41And I cannot see that changing.
28:45So in a way, what have Harry and Meghan got to lose?
28:48They can literally come and part their tanks on William and Kate's lawn.
28:54And William isn't going to do anything.
28:55He's just going to ignore them
28:56because he's basically sticking his fingers in his ears going,
28:59la, la, la, la, la.
29:00Do they have like a UK base, Meghan and Harry?
29:03I mean, what's the sort of, how do they fit?
29:06Where do they stay?
29:07No, they stay in hotels now.
29:09They stay in hotels.
29:10I mean, part of the reason why Meghan hasn't come back before
29:12is because of security.
29:13Harry has said several times that he doesn't think it's safe
29:15for his wife or children to come back here to the UK.
29:20I'm afraid I slightly do raise an eyebrow at that.
29:23Richard is a safer place than the US,
29:26but maybe I'm just being naive.
29:30Well, you can understand also why Harry would want to put
29:32the best interests he believed in to be of his kids.
29:35Yeah, no, of course.
29:36Of course, he wants to protect his wife and children.
29:38I was really struck by what Harry said in Australia
29:41at a mental health leadership summit.
29:42He said that I really hate this role.
29:44When he was a teenager, he said,
29:46I really hate this role.
29:47It killed my mum.
29:48I don't want to do it anymore.
29:49But then I thought, what would my mum do?
29:52And I thought service, service is the answer.
29:55It's the answer to sort of help the world,
29:57but it's also the answer for me personally.
29:59And so for me, there's still this kind of push me,
30:02pull me with Harry.
30:03He does want to be adored.
30:04He wants to be liked.
30:05He wants to be liked by the British public.
30:08And we saw that last September when he came over
30:10and he went to Nottingham and he did a couple of engagements
30:12and it was great.
30:14Coach Corp, charities they supported for a long time.
30:18Crucially, Richard, he was without Meghan then.
30:21And I think she is the kind of commercial arm
30:25to the Sussex operation.
30:26And maybe that's the problem.
30:28Is she the lightning rod for all the negativity?
30:31Maybe unfairly.
30:32We're about to go to the break,
30:33but you know, I've got a question for you before we do.
30:36Tell me.
30:36Now, Royal Garden parties are on the agenda after the break
30:39where many a finger sandwich is served.
30:41But do you know, Emily Andrews,
30:44what was the Queen's favourite sarnie?
30:47I'm going to hazard a guess after the break.
30:50Okay, see you soon.
30:58Welcome back to Catching Up With The Royals
31:00with Royal Garden parties in mind.
31:03The question was,
31:04what was the late Queen's favourite sarnie?
31:06Do you know?
31:08I would have said
31:10either coronation chicken or cucumber.
31:14Incorrect.
31:15Although, actually, do you remember,
31:16it was a croque monsieur,
31:17which is not a knackered Frenchman.
31:19Vraiment?
31:20C'est vraiment, hein?
31:21You see?
31:22The croque monsieur,
31:23which is, well, we call it a ham and cheese toastie.
31:25Mais oui!
31:25A posh ham and cheese toastie.
31:27I'm loving all this.
31:28But that was according to Darren McGrady,
31:30who was the Queen's chef.
31:31That was her favourite thing.
31:33If she wanted something fancy.
31:34I like the idea of a croque monsieur
31:35being something fancy.
31:36I like that.
31:37I love a croque monsieur.
31:38Also, a croque,
31:38do you know what a croque madame is?
31:40You would know.
31:40You get an egg on it, don't you?
31:41You do.
31:42Very good.
31:42Even better.
31:44I've got a question for you.
31:45You know, a kia made with white wine is called a kia?
31:47Yeah.
31:47Do you know what a kia made with red wine is called?
31:50Oh.
31:51No.
31:52A communard.
31:55I like that.
31:56It's true.
31:57We've had some questions about this,
31:58notably from Denise and Glennis,
31:59who want to know what actually goes on
32:01at a royal garden party.
32:03Have you been to one?
32:04I have.
32:05And I think Denise has also been invited to one this year.
32:08I hope you had a lovely time, Denise.
32:10Don't forget your fascinator.
32:11Yeah, and I hope it didn't rain.
32:13Because, of course,
32:14garden parties are held in May
32:17when there is quite a high chance of rain.
32:19I mean, look, we live in the UK, right?
32:21It can rain any time, anywhere.
32:24But I always feel very, very sorry for people
32:26when the heavens open
32:27and you've got your soggy sandwiches
32:29and your soggy hat.
32:30But do you know what?
32:30In Scotland, where they have garden parties too, of course,
32:33that is often a very good month, in fact.
32:36Is it?
32:36So it might be good to hold out for an invitation
32:38to Holyrood House, to a Scottish one.
32:39In June, at the end of June, at Holyrood House,
32:43because that's what we, in the trade, call Scottish week.
32:46The monarch goes up, spends a week in Edinburgh,
32:49says, hello, I'm King of Scotland.
32:50Hi, Scots.
32:51Don't, don't, don't.
32:52We don't want any cessation.
32:53We want you to keep the union.
32:55Have a garden party.
32:57Have the ceremony of the keys.
32:58Have a garden party.
32:59Have some, have some coronation chicken sandwiches.
33:02It pains me to tell you this, Emily,
33:04but I've never actually been to one.
33:06And quite often, if you're an incumbent, a vicar in the Church of England,
33:08because the monarch is our head of our church,
33:11or the Supreme Governor, you quite often get invited.
33:14But for some reason, I seem to have fallen off the list.
33:16Oh, I'm sorry.
33:17Well, it's really interesting, actually, how people get invited.
33:20So if you work for, if you're a civil servant,
33:22and you work for a council, I think in any kind of position,
33:27rubbish collector, cleaner, councillor, anyone,
33:31you can nominate your colleagues to go.
33:34So do nominate for your colleagues for next year.
33:36So I'm sorry you never got invited.
33:38I have been invited.
33:39I have been twice.
33:41The garden parties are a way for people from all around the country,
33:45kind of as a bit of a well done.
33:47So people, judges, when they're first appointed,
33:49they get invited.
33:50MPs, new MPs, obviously people who, public servants, NHS, teachers,
33:56you can get nominated.
33:57Yeah, all right.
33:57Sorry.
33:58You'll get there.
33:59You'll get there.
34:01Yeah, he doesn't want one.
34:02Richard doesn't want to go.
34:03So he's like, yeah, no, thanks.
34:04Whatevs.
34:058,000 people in your back garden eating your sandwiches
34:07and drinking your tea.
34:08Really?
34:09Basically, what happens is you queue to go through security.
34:12So you queue at the front of Buckingham Palace.
34:14And that's quite fun because you have to show your security.
34:16You have to bring in two forms of ID.
34:18And your name has to be on the list.
34:19And then, of course, there are all the tourists
34:20outside Buckingham Palace.
34:21And they're all kind of gawking as you kind of get let in.
34:23And then you walk through the first, you walk under the balcony,
34:28the famous balcony in the centre room.
34:29You walk through the arches into the quadrangle.
34:31You walk through the front of Buckingham Palace.
34:36You walk across the Long Gallery.
34:37You walk through the music room and out into the Buckingham Palace gardens.
34:41And then there's these massive tea tents.
34:43So if it does rain, there's at least a little bit of cover.
34:45But the tea tents serve tea and sandwiches.
34:49And you have this kind of sort of like oblong thing upon which you can,
34:53so you can put your teacup and your sandwiches all at the same time.
34:56It's a little tray thing.
34:57It's a little tray, a porcelain tray.
34:59And they don't give you teaspoons because everyone always steals the teaspoons.
35:04You can have unlimited tea and sandwiches.
35:07And then about half an hour once everyone is in, then the royals arrive.
35:11So the royals come and stand at the top of the steps outside the music room
35:15and the national anthem is played and everyone can see.
35:17And then the Beefeaters who are there organise some of the guests into lanes.
35:22And then the royals walk down these lanes and then people...
35:26With pikes.
35:26Pikes.
35:27Yes.
35:28Umbrellas.
35:29Umbrellas.
35:30Furled umbrellas are used, sometimes can be used.
35:32But everyone's kind of quite nervous and like readjusting their fascinator or their hat.
35:36People have been picked in advance to speak to the king, the queen,
35:40the other members of the royal family who are there.
35:42Normally it will be from charities that are patrons of or it might be people who know them.
35:47But Richard, there is a VIP tea tent and that's the royals' tent.
35:53So normally you go down the steps, the kind of hoi polloi tea tents are all on the left-hand
35:58side.
35:58Then right at the back, before you get to the pond, there's a big pond in the gardens at Buckingham
36:02Palace,
36:03there's the royals' tea tent and that's all roped off.
36:07And so you can only go in if you've got, you know...
36:10So what would that be?
36:11Just sort of grandees or...?
36:13Members of... Yeah, I would have thought like the Lord...
36:15They would be people like the Lord Lieutenants who are the royals' representatives in all the counties,
36:22chief executives of the charities...
36:23Archbishop of Canterbury in there?
36:25Definitely Archbishop of Canterbury.
36:27You can always tell where the clergy will be.
36:28Free sandwiches, boom, they'll be in the sandwich tent.
36:31Do you think Dame Sarah is going to be diving into the sandwiches?
36:33I don't know.
36:34I think maybe she's got sandwiched out after being Bishop of London and also Chief Nurse.
36:38Do you reckon?
36:39It's quite a CV, isn't it?
36:40I thought they were quite boring.
36:42I mean, I suppose it's being invited would be very exciting.
36:44It's such a great honour for people to feel that they're part of that.
36:48But it is a lot of standing around in the rain, isn't it?
36:50It is a lot of standing around.
36:51And also, I was really excited to see the gardens at Buckingham Palace.
36:54Oh, yeah.
36:55That's what I was really...
36:56As a keen gardener, a keen florist, I was really excited to see the gardens.
36:59And the rose garden is lovely, although in May it's obviously not at its peak in May.
37:05The gardeners are absolutely on their mettle and they go and deadhead the roses and they go and make sure
37:11everything is primped to within an inch of its life.
37:14But I found the gardens at Buckingham Palace really quite unimaginative, actually.
37:19Now, I have to say this was before King Charles acceded to the throne.
37:23And I hear that he has done some more interesting things with the gardens at Buckingham Palace.
37:27He's sown a lot of wildflowers and I would love to see if...
37:30I'm sure he must have some...
37:31I think there's a wildflower meadow right at the back.
37:33But for such an...
37:35I think it's the biggest...
37:37I think Buckingham Palace Garden is the biggest domestic garden in London.
37:43Yeah, I think so.
37:44The second only to maybe Wingfield House, which is the American ambassador's house.
37:48But I think it might even be bigger than that garden.
37:51And it's just a lot of lawn, Richard.
37:54It's just a lot of lawn.
37:55I suppose it has to be practical, right?
37:5630,000 people coming through.
37:58And also for Donald Trump to land his helicopter on.
38:01I mean, I once watched when Marine One landed when Trump came on his first state visit to see Queen
38:07Elizabeth.
38:08And yeah, I guess you couldn't really have many flowers there because they'd have just been completely destroyed.
38:14Yeah, I mean, Buckingham Palace, it's not a beautiful building.
38:16It's not particularly beautiful garden, but it's really HQ, isn't it?
38:19It is monarchy HQ, yeah.
38:20Yeah, yeah.
38:21And I suppose that's what the Garden Parties are there for.
38:23Because, you know, under Queen Victoria, these gatherings were kind of aristocratic breakfast for the nobility.
38:30But then obviously society changed.
38:33We stopped having kind of the debutante balls and coming out.
38:36And instead, it was Elizabeth, really, Queen Elizabeth, who pioneered this kind of meeting and thanking the general public.
38:45And she replaced the old debutante presentations with a much more, today's much more democratic version.
38:51So, you know, nurses, teachers, charity workers, members of the clergy.
38:55Or some of them.
38:56Some of members of the clergy.
38:58People do get very stressed about what to wear.
39:00I mean, certainly when friends of mine have gone, people have always said, Em, you know, what do we wear?
39:05I have, I've got many hats, Richard, and I have lent some of my many hats to friends who've gone,
39:11male and female.
39:11Well, men normally do wear suits or morning dress.
39:16And women wear hats and day dresses with hats or fascinators.
39:20You don't have to, though.
39:21It's a bit like Glyndebourne.
39:22You know, Glyndebourne, as we both know, because we go to the opera, they say sort of black tie.
39:28But people can wear what they want now.
39:29Let's relax now.
39:30I'm not sure about that.
39:31I quite like the idea of, not sort of dressing up, but of everybody wearing the same thing.
39:35Because I think it's quite levelling, actually.
39:37So, if you're all wearing the same thing, it doesn't matter if you're a Duke or a Dustman, does it?
39:41You look the same.
39:42It's fun to look at all the hats.
39:43It's fun to look at all the fascinators.
39:44It's fun to look at all the dresses.
39:45It's fun to look at what everyone's wearing.
39:47There's music, live music, often.
39:49A band of the whatever guards.
39:51Yeah, Glyndebourne guards or whatever.
39:53And hopefully, if the weather's nice, it's lovely.
39:55I mean, I would advise anyone, you know, whether you're going to Ascot, whether you're going to a garden party,
39:59don't wear heels, wear wedges.
40:01You are on grass.
40:03A lot to go backwards.
40:05Yes.
40:05And, of course, you're let out.
40:07If memory serves me correctly, you don't come out of Buckingham Palace.
40:09You go out the gate.
40:10Oh, right.
40:11At the back.
40:11Get out.
40:12Yeah, onto the gyration.
40:14For those of us who are not fortunate enough to be invited to a garden party,
40:16I suggest you take a number 38 bus to Victoria and you can look over the wall as you go
40:20past.
40:22I'll wave at you, Richard.
40:24Well, wave from us too because we've got to go, but we will be back next time.
40:28Don't forget, you can catch us wherever you get your social media from,
40:31on YouTube on a Thursday and, of course, on Saturday on 5.
40:36Like, subscribe, click, review.
40:39Click, review, like, subscribe.
40:41And if you've got any questions that you'd like Richard and I to answer,
40:44please email royals at spirit-studio.com.
40:49Now, Richard, I'm off to get you an invitation to a garden party for next year.
40:56And in the meantime, should we go to Ascot instead?
40:58Oh, I love Ascot, yeah.
40:59Oh, I love it.
41:00That's for next week.
41:01Have a great week.
41:02See you.
41:02Goodbye.
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