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00:00Aaron Rodgers is back. You probably, you might have predicted it. I think that was kind of the
00:05consensus expectation that he would be back. Were you personally, emotionally, psychologically
00:12ready for another go-round with Aaron Rodgers? Look, as long as he doesn't go on certain sports
00:20shows and run his mouth about things not pertaining to football, he can stay as long
00:24as he wants. To be honest with you, like from a media standpoint, but more from an even more,
00:31you know, from the Steelers standpoint, that guy leaned into being here last year, you know,
00:37and everybody's wringing their hands, you know, because it was taking a little bit longer than
00:41maybe some anticipated. But the reality is that when he signed last June, right before mandatory
00:48minicamp, he said, I couldn't, I wouldn't make that decision until I knew I could be all in.
00:52And he was, to his credit, all in for, from the day that he signed until the day after the
00:58season
00:58ended with that first round playoff loss to the Texans. He was absolutely fully committed to being
01:04here and that bought him a lot of equity in the locker room and in the front office. It was
01:09just
01:09weird that, you know, Art Rooney II sort of made the mistake of trying to put him on a timeline,
01:14which look, this guy has got a 20 plus year track record of doing whatever he wants, whenever the
01:20hell he wants. And he does not care about your expectations. So that was a little weird.
01:25But look, in the end, you know, and he, there was a little bit of haggling over the money,
01:29but look, what other job is he going to get the rest of his life? That's going to pay him
01:3215 million,
01:32at least $15 million. Not that he needs the money, but that's the reality too, right? Like,
01:39you know, there is, he's not going to, you know, unless he takes over, actually, I'm, you know what,
01:44there's some jokes there. I'm just going to leave there. I'm going to work and move on. I'm sorry.
01:49Who knows what this guy's going to do after football, but you know, you know, he, he did
01:54what he said he was going to do. He got here. The only thing that surprised me is that, that
01:58he got
01:58here for, for OTAs, which are voluntary. And he even said last year, you know, short football in
02:04shorts in May is not his favorite thing. And he thought that maybe the refs would better be
02:08distributed to the younger players, but this time reuniting with Mike McCarthy, one last,
02:13you know, one last run for the boys. He got here on time. And I mean, he has been very
02:19active. I
02:20mean, I am sort of stunned at the amount of passing that his 42 year old arm is doing in
02:25June,
02:25or I'm sorry, right. Heck, we're not even in June yet in May, but he's been all in. And certainly
02:31they certainly are leaning into sort of what they can out of him while he's still here.
02:36What are the expectations, you know, either internally or within the fan base? Cause like
02:44was last, he was, he was pretty good last year. Right. Is that, is that a fair assessment
02:49or am I, am I under, underselling it?
02:51No, he was, he was pretty good though. I would say that sort of the returns diminished a late
02:57in the season and B when they played really good teams. Right. Right. You know, he did have
03:02moments. I mean, you know, he won them, you know, basically like he won them a couple of
03:07games down the stretch, which is what Aaron Rogers does. Uh, and he was fine. I think the
03:11expectation is that this team wants to compete for a division title again and, and make the
03:15playoffs and, you know, hopefully get in there with a puncher's chance. You look at some of
03:19the moves they made in the off season to give him better weapons. You know, they, uh, traded
03:24for Michael Pittman jr. They signed Rico Dowdle after Kenny Gainwell signed with the bucks.
03:29They signed, uh, Jeremy, Jeremy, sorry, not Jeremy, Jeremy Bernard, wide receiver out
03:35of, uh, they drafted him out of Georgia, you know, so there are more, um, maybe more downfield
03:41weapons, uh, than they had a year ago. Uh, he wasn't a great passer down the field last
03:46year, but maybe part of that is because most of the guys were, you know, if it was DK Metcalf,
03:50usually he had a lot of attention on him. So, um, you know, they're optimistic that they
03:55can be competitive and sort of, that is the blessing and the curse of sort of being the
03:59Steelers. They're sort of always going for it. They don't cycle up and cycle down. Like
04:03they haven't, I mean, their last losing season was in 2003 and that's not new. You guys know
04:09this. That's not normal. Like they're the only team in the, like, I think they're, they
04:13tied Dallas's record for longest consecutive non-losing seasons. Um, the league isn't designed
04:18for that. They think they're special. They're special enough to go 10 and seven and get whooped
04:23in the first round of the playoffs. And it's hard to imagine it not ending any differently
04:27this time around, but this is what they're committed to. And at least, you know, like,
04:31uh, I say this a lot, the brand is the brand and the brand for the Steelers is to try
04:35to
04:35go forward, even when maybe you don't have the, the, the talent or the depth to do it.
04:41Yeah. It's been kind of a groundhog day existence. If that's not too obvious, a cliche, uh, to
04:46describe the Steelers the last few years, maybe it would have been better. I mean, you're
04:51a writer, maybe it would have been better for me to ask about Tomlin leaving and McCarthy
04:55than even Rogers, as big a entity as Rogers is in the league. What has that been like
05:01life post Mike Tomlin so far?
05:03It is, it is very, look, it's very, very odd. Um, you know, I kind of had a feeling,
05:08I can't remember when the last time I talked to you guys, if it was after the season or
05:11not, but the day after Christmas, um, I was at practice and I'm walking by Mike and I,
05:16we struck up a conversation and I just asked how the Christmas was and how it's different
05:20now with his, his youngest is a, uh, just finished her sophomore year at Georgia. His
05:24boys are grown and out of the house. And I asked him what it was like, uh, having them
05:28come home for Christmas. And, you know, we had a very pleasant five minutes. And then
05:32I kind of walked down to watch the rest of practice. I turned to one of the other writers
05:35and I kind of relayed the gist of our conversation. And I was like, you know, there's nothing keeping
05:39him here. If he wants to leave, he can leave. And I will say that this was my 15th,
05:45last year was my 15th year covering the team. It was the first time I had a story ready
05:49in case he stepped down. I was a little surprised with the swiftness of it. Um, but you know,
05:56Mike, you know, for, for all of his detractors, that man can read the room better than anybody.
06:01And I think that he sent that it was time for something else. And, you know, McCarthy, it's,
06:06it's just, it's very, very different. I mean, from, from a covering the team standpoint,
06:10let me give you example, literally from today. So today, uh, was day five of OTAs. I think for
06:17I'm not keeping track. I think it was day five. And, um, Mike Tomlin hated talking to the media
06:24outside of his Tuesday windows and posting. He hated doing it. It was not his, you know,
06:28like we were told if you wanted him outside of those windows, be prepared for very curt answers.
06:34And you better, you know, you better be very specific about what you need him for.
06:38He's the only coach in the league that was like that McCarthy's like the exact opposite today.
06:42He comes over and talks for 15 minutes and would have kept going. If he had not been cut off
06:46by, uh, the great bird law and the PR chief for the Steelers. Um, it's just way. I mean,
06:51you know, he makes the assistant coaches available on a regular basis because he wants to have a
06:56coaching tree and he wants, you know, fans and the media to have a better understanding of how,
07:01how things work. It is very, very different. They, you know, even said today, there's not a lot of
07:06barking this time of year. There's not a lot of, you know, yelling at guys. There's a lot of getting
07:09on guys. It's all about teaching and getting film. A couple of players have talked to me about how
07:13detailed the practices are. And I'm not saying that they weren't detailed under Mike. I would
07:18just say maybe the amount of detail, um, is much higher than, than it had been under that being
07:24said, I still like, I was talking to Jalen Warren, the Steelers running back today about this.
07:29I'm like, do you keep expecting him to, um, like just hear his voice, Mike T's voice,
07:34just sort of crack out of the blue. Uh, cause that's what you would hear at practice when,
07:38you know, and it's, that part is very, very odd. And the irony is because there's so much else
07:42going on with the team with Rogers coming back and then saying, you know, sort of out of the blue,
07:47uh, at the end of his time talking to us last week, that this was going to be it for
07:51him,
07:51which we all kind of expected. I don't think none of us expected him to say it then.
07:54Right. There's been so much going on with this team. Like the, the Mike Tomlin's absence,
07:59we haven't really had a chance to really dive into it yet, but I think, you know, especially once we
08:04get to training camp, I think it's going to be noticeable and look changes is good. Sometimes, um,
08:09he's probably going to the hall of fame if he never coaches again. And I think he will.
08:13Um, but it is just a very, very different vibe here than it was when, uh, when Mike Tomlin was
08:19the
08:19head coach. Where are you on how good of a coach McCarthy is? I felt like by the end of
08:24his Green
08:25Bay years, and this of course includes Rogers and, you know, our buddy Tyler Dunn wrote a big expose
08:31about all of that, which made it more surprising to me that this would have happened. Uh, but maybe I
08:36misread that. It's just like by the end of McCarthy and Green Bay and then in Dallas,
08:42he, he seemed like kind of a punchline. Maybe there was a lot of unfairness to that. I don't
08:46know. He's really never been my favorite. I mean, like the idea that this guy is some
08:52bum off the street, which is, you know, how some of the fan base reacted is a little weird to
08:57me.
08:57Um, he is, he and Tomlin's resumes are similar. I mean, look at the Steelers went 12 and five,
09:03three years in a row. I think the fans would be like, this guy's a pretty good coach,
09:07right? Which is what he did in Dallas until the last year, which by the way, they went seven and
09:1110 without Dak Prescott playing the second half of the year. Didn't buy with Cooper Rush and,
09:16you know, some other dudes you've never heard of. Right. So, um, you know, I think it's a little
09:20unfair. I think he's, I mean, he's one, right. I mean, the team will, I would expect the team to
09:25be
09:25competitive. Do I think that the best team in the division? Uh, no, I don't. I mean, I,
09:30I firmly believe that Cincinnati is significantly better and there's a chef who knows what the
09:36Ravens, but I think the Ravens will probably be better too. But I mean, he's a good coach. I mean,
09:43I, the part of the problem here is like, if you live in Pittsburgh, if you cover the Steelers,
09:48look, this is, you know, like they lean into this being stability. They've obviously no team has been
09:52outside of the Patriots has been more successful for the last 50, what 56 years than the Steelers.
09:59And even the Patriots run is sort of limited to one specific group, whereas the Steelers have had
10:03separate runs of, of, of excellence. Um, but you get sort of blinded to what, how the rest of the
10:10world lives. You guys have lived through it up there in Buffalo. I grew up in the DC suburbs. The
10:14football team there was great when I was a kid and then was trash for the next 30 years,
10:20um, in a joke. And, you know, I would, if I, if there was, if the bills had signed,
10:28had hired Mike McCarthy, if Washington hired Mike McCarthy, I think the fans would be like,
10:31oh, we got a guy that can win some football games instead of being like, oh my God. I mean,
10:35the irony is this guy's a Pittsburgh guy, his, the neighborhood he grew up in. You can literally
10:39see the Steelers practice field from the top of the hill in the neighborhood where, where Mike McCarthy
10:44grew up. Right. Like it's a homecoming. And I think that he understands this is his last job.
10:51And, you know, I think he's, I there looked, are there clock management issues, I guess. But I mean,
10:56you know, in this day and age, every coach gets nitpicked for their clock management. I mean,
11:01I get it. Uh, Mike Tomlin himself was hardly above, it was hard, was hardly above reproach,
11:07uh, in that department. Um, you know, it's, it's weird. Like, you know, the, the Steelers have
11:13made their bones for, I mean, you know, Chuck Knoll was in, was an unknown. Bill Cower was
11:19largely an unknown. Mike Tomlin was definitely an unknown when they were hired. And this was
11:23pre-social media. Right. And I would have met, you know, I'd imagine those hires would have been
11:29if, if, if, if X and everybody else, all these everywhere else that existed, then it would
11:33have been met with what? Who's this guy, right? Where? And now they, and instead the Steelers,
11:39for the first time in 50 some years, they hired a guy with a resume and people are upset about
11:42it.
11:42Which is, which is weird to me. Um, I mean, I think you could make the argument certainly that
11:48he is like, you know, a mirror image of Tomlin, um, one Superbowl win, uh, some, some spectacular
11:55regular seasons and some epic playoff flame outs. Um, you know, but I, I do think the guy can coach.
12:01This is not going to be a disaster by any stretch. Will Graves associated press in Pittsburgh on the
12:07beat with the Steelers on the Western hotline with us for a couple of more minutes here.
12:10Will, how, how have both guys here that we've talked about McCarthy and Rogers talked about
12:17their relationship and whether it ever was Rocky, um, and whether this was, uh, was an uncomfortable
12:24marriage of sorts at all for either side, uh, since they've been reunited in Pittsburgh or
12:29has that subject just not really come up? Well, I mean, I think, um, you know, when he, when Aaron
12:35was still in green Bay, the first time McCarthy came in with the Cowboys in 21, you know, he was
12:42asked that week about, um, you know, facing Mike and Mike had been gone for a couple of years, excuse
12:48me, years at that point. And he was very complimentary. And I think, you know, Aaron
12:53kind of at this point in his career sort of understood how good he had it back then. I mean,
12:58one of the reasons he's going to the hall of fame is because of Mike McCarthy to be very,
13:03very clear. And I think that he understands and respects that. Um, I think they like to butt heads,
13:09but I mean, Aaron would like that no matter who his coach, I mean, he just sort of loves to
13:13be
13:14himself. Um, so, you know, I think that, um, you know, they're going to be fine. I mean,
13:21what would be rough patches? I mean, maybe, but it's, it's going to be more results based than
13:27just the fact that these guys can't stand each other. Like that's certainly not the case. I think
13:30that they're both sort of happy to have this, you know, one last moment. And, you know, the real
13:36question with the Steelers is like, you know, what do they do behind him behind Aaron Rogers? And
13:41you've got, you know, Mason Rudolph, you know, a veteran, you kind of know what you got in him.
13:44They got Will Howard, the kid from Ohio state who was basically hurt most of last year. And then
13:48they drafted Drew Aller out of Penn state. The question is, what do you do at the
13:51end of the preseason? My guess is the smart thing for the Steelers to do would be to like,
13:57I imagine some other team somewhere will have injury issues, the quarterback, and you can trade
14:01maybe, maybe you can flip Mason Rudolph for like a seventh rounder. Right. And then two things
14:06happen. And one of two things happen this year, if you keep the kids behind, uh, Rogers, either
14:10Aaron stays healthy and the team is good or Aaron gets hurt, which I think is the more likely
14:15scenario. And, um, you finally find out if either of these two guys can play and then you get
14:21next year's draft. And maybe you have, you can finally, after five, five years after Ben
14:26Roethlisberger retired and probably eight years after they should have planned for his succession,
14:31maybe you finally find the guy that can be the guy for the next 10 to 15 years.
14:35Never too late. I guess the Steelers, by the way, as you may know, the team that the Packers
14:41beat Rogers and McCarthy's one Superbowl win. I mean, interesting that Rogers has just the one,
14:45but that was against Pittsburgh in February of 11. Well, I was hoping that there would be,
14:51and thinking of the bills too, with their coaching change after what nine years of Sean
14:56McDermott, here are Tomlin and John Harbaugh who doubled that both out in their respective cases.
15:02I was kind of hoping for a Pittsburgh Baltimore game well before Christmas, uh, even maybe early.
15:08So you could sort of have the, the storyline of the two teams. So is it the record for most
15:13head
15:13to head meetings for coaches, Tomlin and Harbaugh? They were second behind Hollis and Curly Lambeau.
15:19They were, they were second. Okay. Thank you. So that's not going to happen. I don't think it's
15:22Christmas, but they play week 15 is their first meeting, the Ravens and the Steelers. I mean,
15:28I don't know what, what this is as a question. It's just so interesting that this happened to
15:32the two teams and I guess the bills also at the same time. Yeah. I mean, you know, you can
15:38get,
15:38um, it was a very jarring, you know, uh, stretch there postseason. I mean, it's crazy how like
15:46one kick, one missed kick, you know, altered the, I mean, if there, if, if that kid makes that kick
15:52in week 18, Harbaugh's probably still the coach of the Ravens, you know? And, and if they, and if
15:59you know, they miss it, maybe Mike says, I'm not going out without reaching the playoffs. I'm going to
16:05come back for one more year. Like, I literally think that that could have happened, uh, especially
16:10cause he was literally tied with Chuck Knoll for most wins all time in franchise history. Right.
16:14Which is just like a staggering, um, you know, staggering hall of, you know, mountain. I mean,
16:21that is a career defining thing if he would have slipped past that Chuck. So, um, yeah, it's a,
16:27but that's, you know, the Steelers sort of have insulated themselves from a lot of this change.
16:32They, like I mentioned earlier, they sort of pride themselves on it, but look, you know,
16:36father time is undefeated. Eventually the Turk comes for us all. And, you know, I, I think it
16:42will be, you know, I think this year is, we're not going to really get a really true post Mike
16:46Tomlin type feel for this team until the Steelers find that quarterback. I really think that what
16:52we're going to see next year is going to be a team that's going to be done. You know,
16:55the defense is going to, you know, the TJ Watts of the world and the Kim Haywards of the world
16:59are
16:59going to have to be excellent and have to carry the team maybe probably early in the season.
17:05And then, you know, you'll have Aaron Rogers, uh, kind of back there to maybe trying to find a
17:10little bit of magic, but I really think the identity of this franchise is not going to
17:13what, what, what it's going to look like. Um, you know, it's going to be sort of like a one
17:18-off
17:19Tomlin light almost in a, in a weird way this year from a result standpoint. And then I think
17:23next year in 27, we're going to have a much better feel for what the Mike McCarthy era
17:28in Pittsburgh is going to be.
17:29William mentioned Hayward and Watt to cornerstone players on that defense. How capable at this
17:36point in their careers of carrying anything do you think they are? And is everything finally
17:41sort of calm and cool on the Watt front? Like there was every year there was like, you know,
17:46this guy got paid, this guy got paid and he's in line. Like, is that all in the past now?
17:52Well, I mean, yeah. Cause the irony is, I think TJ probably considers himself pretty fortunate to
17:57get the paycheck that he's, that he's making. I mean, I think there was some concern late in the
18:02year. There was a production drop off. Um, you know, I, it's, it's look, I, you know, the guy's
18:0820 years younger than I am to say. So to say that he's sort of like on the wrong side
18:12of 30 is kind
18:12of a jerk. It's kind of makes me kind of a jag off to borrow a Pittsburghese, but, um, he
18:19certainly
18:19looked like he, maybe he has lost a fraction of a step, right? I think they have new defensive
18:23coordinator, Patrick Graham. I think his job is going to be to find ways to free TJ up because
18:28for most of TJ's career is like, just line him up there on the left side, let him do his
18:32thing.
18:32And good luck to whoever the, the, the right tackle and whoever happens to be the quarterback,
18:37right? Like that was literally their plan. And now I think you're going to see him moving around
18:41a lot more and justifying the fact that he was, you know, he's still one of the highest paid
18:47non-quarterbacks in the league. Cam Hayward, um, you know, I don't want to say he can play
18:52forever, but man, it certainly looks like, you know, he can play, um, you know, this will be a
18:5816th season. Um, you know, there are every once in a while you'll play as Campbell's one of those
19:03guys, right? You'll find some interior defensive defensive linemen that can kind of just stick
19:06around forever. Uh, Cam certainly looks to be that guy, um, a lifelong stealer. I also think
19:12Cam's thinking about the hall of fame. And I think that he thinks that he can make it,
19:16you know, another couple of years and get another all pro, but another second team, all pro another
19:22pro bowl, not in his late thirties, he thinks that it's going to bolster his resume. And I do
19:26think he does want the team to, you know, win a super bowl or at least get to one while
19:29he's here.
19:30And I just, I don't see that happening. I just don't, I think that they're again, they're,
19:34they're pretty good, but I think like we've seen that Houston game last year. I mean,
19:38it's essentially the same team coming back, um, different head coach, but a lot of familiar
19:44faces outside of, as I mentioned, Michael Pittman and, and a couple of others, um, hard to imagine
19:49of different results. But, uh, you know, I do think that, uh, you know, those guys can be effective
19:56staying healthy is going to be key for them, especially for TJ. And the problem the Steelers
20:00have now is like Nick Herbig, who has been a bit of a, a great find for them. Um, you
20:06know,
20:07finishing his third year now eligible for a new contract because he was a third round pick.
20:11So, you know, he's entering his fourth season. His contract expires after this year. He certainly
20:15looks like, uh, you know, maybe a, the three dot O version of TJ Watt, not, not as look, he's
20:20not a
20:21future hall of famer, but he can be a very, very effective pass rusher. The Steelers got to figure
20:25out how much they want to pay him and can they afford to pay him and Alex Heisman and TJ
20:30Watt a lot of
20:31money. One of those guys you would sit there and think would be the odd men out. I think TJ's,
20:36salary makes him sort of untouchable. Um, if the Steelers get a call for Alex Heisman,
20:43who was a really, really solid pro, um, and the price is right. Could they make the move? I think
20:47it's possible. They have Jack Sawyer, you know, from Ohio state that they drafted last year, who is
20:52not a, a, uh, get to the quarterback all the time kind of guy, but it can definitely be a
20:57set the edge,
20:58uh, Alex, uh, you know, sort of a, you know, a, a slightly lesser version of Alex Heisman. Um,
21:04so that's sort of the question that they really have. Um, you know, how much are they willing to
21:08pay a premium? How much of a premium are they willing to pay to, to have as many disruptive
21:12guys there on the edge as possible? And I just wonder in this day and age with the economics of
21:16the league, if that's possible to carry three guys that are probably, you know, high sense making in
21:21the twenties TJs is up in the, in the thirties. And I imagine Herbig would be pretty close to 20
21:25million
21:26at this point of year, if he gets a new deal, that's a lot of money for a very specific
21:30skill
21:30set. Will Graves of the AP in Pittsburgh. Thanks for your time. We'll hope to talk to you again.
21:35When we get close to the season, the bills and Steelers will not face each other this regular
21:39season. So we'll have to try to jam that in if you're up for it. All right. Shout out to
21:44the
21:44great John Warrow. See you guys later. There it is. Thanks, Will.
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