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00:00Yesterday, by the end of it, we got a couple of interesting phone calls about Alex Tuck.
00:07I like how this has played out so far, where we've sort of, it's almost been like a sparring
00:15match or something, not that it's combative, but what do you think?
00:19What do I think?
00:20What should the Sabres do?
00:22What would I do?
00:23This kind of back and forth.
00:25And after I was done making fun of the drug ads for the 70th time, and it's not going
00:30to be the last time, by the way, so we're counting on you, brace yourself.
00:36You said, I just feel like maybe I need to plant a flag on this.
00:40They should sign Alex Tuck.
00:42And you've talked about their organizational history and reputation, whether that's relevant.
00:48We talked to Luke Fox about that yesterday.
00:49That's an interesting piece of it.
00:52Maybe it is.
00:52Maybe it isn't.
00:54That would be something, I think, not so much for the fans, necessarily, but for the
00:58players to be asked about.
01:00You know, if I'm Yarmou, I might want to, assuming he even himself has a finger on that.
01:06He doesn't have to know that much about their history.
01:10I mean, he's a hockey guy, so he probably does.
01:12But I'm not sure how much he thought about or cared about the quest for a first cup and
01:20just how sad it got the last, most of the last 15 years.
01:26So you have that part of it, and you said eventually, like, do it.
01:32The cap's going up.
01:33Do it.
01:34But then you said, like, but here's what I would say back to me.
01:39I didn't mean to do your job for you.
01:41No, I mean, I like that.
01:43What was that?
01:43Ever heard what that was?
01:45Where do all the kids go?
01:47What do I do with the rest of the forwards?
01:49Do I have room for everyone?
01:51Right.
01:51That I, you know, Kulik is back.
01:53We're pretty high on Hellenius for good reason.
01:57To me, Ausland is, Ausland's at the top of the list to me.
02:00Like, he's absolutely got a spot next year.
02:03Okay.
02:04So you have.
02:04So what do I do?
02:05Right.
02:05You have the rest, you have those questions, and those are good questions.
02:09And I found myself not only feeling like I'm on the other side of this, like, if I need
02:15to plant a flag, I think I want to plant it in the other side of that fence.
02:19But then I know what I would want to ask me.
02:22And one caller came on and said, listen, are we just doing this because he didn't score
02:28a point in the Montreal series?
02:30What if he had had, he didn't say this, but I was thinking it again today.
02:33Like, what if he had three?
02:35Would anybody even know?
02:37Do we know how many points they all had in that series?
02:40I mean, I don't.
02:41I know that Tuck had none.
02:44Right.
02:44And I was even tracking it because I had that Sabres-Canadians playoff history spreadsheet.
02:49I think Darlene might have had 10.
02:50Okay.
02:50Maybe Thompson had eight.
02:51So I guess I know a couple.
02:52Only because of that.
02:54Right, right.
02:54Because it wasn't like both of those guys were dominant.
02:57Right, yeah.
02:57Scoring-wise, Darlene was great.
02:59Yeah, it's not like every game, like, oh, look at this historic run this guy's on or something
03:02like that.
03:03It was never like that.
03:04It's not Marner.
03:04It's not one of these.
03:05So then I thought, well, I know what I would ask me.
03:08I'd ask me that question.
03:09And, you know, the bigger question isn't how you came to decide that you would let him
03:14walk, if that's what you decide.
03:16But just the matter of his scoring 33 goals on a team that won its division for the first
03:25time in 16 years.
03:27And so, like, you're just going to do nothing about that?
03:30What are you going to do about that?
03:31I like the point that, and this is easy to say, but if I've got a top-rate GM, maybe
03:41they
03:41do.
03:42Have they ever had one?
03:43Maybe they do.
03:45If they do, then he should, I think, you know, 31 other teams, he should be able to come up
03:54with something else that would allow for them to live past Alex Tuck.
04:00And then you're not, I mean, the worst case is going to happen almost inevitably.
04:05You just don't know when with a contract like he would probably get.
04:08But can I find somebody who's five years younger that if I put them in the right role, you
04:15know, whatever that means, I know they change lines all the time, but somebody that sort
04:19of checks the boxes for me, shouldn't I be able to do that and survive, partly or largely
04:26because I have those other players?
04:28And this was what we talked about maybe at this exact time yesterday to start the day.
04:33It's like, all right, well, let me know what we're going to define kids as because I've
04:38got young players, but they're all pretty good and they've already kind of shown that.
04:44So I don't want to talk about Helen use and Ostland like they haven't made the league yet.
04:52Like maybe we did with Kulik and Roseanne a little bit, just sort of wish casting with
04:59those guys because the Sabres were kind of nowhere.
05:01Like, well, at least they have this group of these three first round picks the one year
05:06Savoy, you know, Benson eventually, like at least that that's going to come eventually.
05:11And then it does or it doesn't.
05:12You don't know that these are players who even in playoff tests, not Kulik, but the
05:18other two guys, Benson quintessentially, I mean, absolutely rose to the occasion.
05:22I would say all of them did in that, in this playoff.
05:25Yeah.
05:26In some way.
05:26Yeah, they did.
05:27It still might be like, maybe the one I'm the most uneasy about is the one who's the
05:34flashiest and that, well, Kulik is in a separate category because he didn't taste the playoffs
05:38at all and missed, you know, almost the entire season.
05:43But he was tracking.
05:45I think last year I would have had him as the second line center on this team going into
05:49the year behind Norris.
05:50So there was a projection there off of how he finished the season prior that like, okay,
05:57he's coming hard and he's, he's a player you can count on in your top six.
06:03Helene used to me is the one that I think looks like he has the highest ceiling, but he's also
06:08the one who's played the least.
06:10And so, I don't know, I, I, I might want to sort of settle for, you got to break the
06:18door down.
06:18And I don't know if playing four, how many playoff games did he play?
06:22Five, six, he played a whole Montreal series.
06:24I don't even remember what he played, but I mean, he got in, he looked good.
06:28There's no question about that.
06:29But is that breaking the door down?
06:31Like, I'm not quite sure that that is.
06:33I know he had a really good year in Rochester.
06:36He might've played three.
06:38So I, I'm just worried, you know, it's, it's a little bit kind of the opposite of the tuck
06:43point here, like sample size, right?
06:45We're, we're, we're, it's the, it's the same point about sample size.
06:49It's a small sample.
06:50Do you want to react?
06:51How do you want to react to that?
06:53Maybe the best thing to do is not react to it at all because it's so small, right?
06:57I'm going to ding tuck.
06:58I'm going to decide I don't want him as a cornerstone of my franchise because he didn't have a good
07:03seven game series.
07:05And at the same time, Helen use, oh, he's got a spot because he looked good in three
07:11games.
07:11Yeah.
07:12It was four games.
07:13You're right.
07:13I got scored today.
07:15I know.
07:15I saw that.
07:16I saw.
07:17Can I use that?
07:18Can I have that?
07:18Sure.
07:19And look, this, none of this is to say that it, that can't work.
07:24I just, yeah, this is, um, it's all, it's all just pretty familiar that you're, you're
07:31on the cusp here.
07:32You're not even on the cusp.
07:33This is a big part of the platform is you're, you're a cup contender.
07:36You're not trying to become one.
07:37You're not hoping to be one.
07:39You became one already.
07:41That happened.
07:43The, the, the, the, the, the caterpillar turned into a butterfly.
07:46Like you're, you're there.
07:47Now you've got to extend that shelf life and talk is a central piece to that.
07:53And what you do, if you don't want to meet the price or you can't meet the price, or he
07:59doesn't want to, you know, get reasonable enough for you to feel palatable about the
08:03whole, whatever.
08:04It's not all in your hands, which you've pointed out numerous times to me yesterday.
08:08Like talk has a big say in this.
08:10So, um, you know, if he, if he just wants the contract and wants to move on to somewhere
08:16else, that's his right.
08:18And there's very little the Sabres can do about that.
08:20That's right.
08:20So we just don't know.
08:22We just don't know is right also, but is there a pivot that that's what I need to know?
08:28Like, you've got to have something else in hand to me, veteran wise to, to make sure
08:35you're insulated so that if one of the kids just isn't going to be there for you for whatever
08:43reason they're not ready, the, the, the, you're, you're just too young.
08:49If you put all the, all those guys in and you extract talk, I'm just not sure you're,
08:57you're, you're, you've made yourself better, but who's not ready from that group.
09:01Who would you say that about Kulik is his own case because of his health, but we did
09:08get a pretty good taste of him two years ago.
09:10I think any of those guys could play here next year.
09:14They're ready.
09:15I think physically to play here, but at what level, like, am I going to get top line production
09:23from one of them if they're in tuck spot, or am I going to get some kind of a learning
09:28curve that, you know, is, is a ramp up to what eventually the ceiling is.
09:33I mean, and I don't know the answer to that.
09:35All I know is I don't want to just bank on these kids all maxing out or close to it
09:41in
09:42year one, their first full year.
09:44Like, okay, we're a Stanley cup contender.
09:47You're 21 go score me 30 goals.
09:50I know that's a lot to ask.
09:51I think we have maybe, if this isn't to stretch it, at least three bad signs for the, the re
10:02-sign
10:02Alex Tuck crowd.
10:04One and two are how both Tuck and Kekalainen sounded, what they said after the season.
10:10Tuck was pretty matter of fact.
10:12We'll have to talk.
10:13You know, it was, he was not, I mean, it was, there was, there was a requisite.
10:17But yes, they said, they want me here, you know, whatever else I enjoyed it.
10:21I got to do what's best for my family.
10:23But yeah, like it ended at, he wasn't effusive about just like how special staying would be.
10:29And that's to be expected.
10:30Like he's, it's a, it's a business decision.
10:33And Kekalainen said a thing about just like, whatever.
10:35It was a little, almost cold.
10:38It was after talking him up, say, but we have to make sure we do what's best for the team.
10:43Right.
10:43Words to that effect.
10:44The contract has to allow us to improve.
10:46Something like that.
10:48And yeah, I mean, and that's, you know, I think a lot of us, go ahead.
10:51No, I was going to say the third, the third thing is like the reports of the last couple
10:55of days are just like, maybe, you know, they, they alienated him or just like the writing
11:01on the wall from like in the second half of the season when it was on the table, wasn't
11:06really promising.
11:07So you have that too.
11:08And who said, by the way, if I can get the squeeze four in, who said, was it you maybe
11:13that said like how they tried, they might've been trying to replace his money for the playoffs
11:19by whether that was going to be Thomas or Pareko or somebody like that.
11:25Yeah.
11:25So that might've even also been an indication that they were planning to be preparing for
11:29a life without him.
11:30Yeah.
11:31Like certainly not at the trade deadline, but in the future.
11:35Yeah, exactly.
11:36Right.
11:36That I think would be the impetus.
11:38That's why I've said like, if you want to, you, you, you just can't get there.
11:42His number is just not going to work for you and he won't come down and whatever it's muddied
11:48up.
11:49If you want to like, tell me you're trading for Robert Thomas.
11:54Okay.
11:55Like I, I'm that, that's a real move to me, uh, like a provably good addition, maybe even
12:02great addition to your roster.
12:04And, um, it isn't just counting on guys who have not done it yet in the league, which is
12:11really what it is.
12:12I can stop just saying kids, but it's just, you know, what have they really done?
12:16Um, so it's also speculative.
12:20So I would want to insulate myself with something.
12:23And if you can do that, then, you know, I, I, I can look at talk and go, okay, well,
12:28you've
12:28got a, you've got a, this is a contendery move.
12:31You're, you're switching out.
12:33I've made the example.
12:34It's not great because Tampa had won cups, but that we're not, we're not keeping Steven
12:39Stamkos anymore.
12:40We're just going to get Jake Gensel in his spot.
12:42Who's basically what you just described younger and is going to replace the
12:46production, almost note for note.
12:47He's not going to wear the C for us because he's not a franchise cornerstone, but whatever.
12:52We're just going to do that instead.
12:54Cause we think that's a better way to spend our money.
12:56Okay.
12:57You gotta, you gotta do that.
12:59Um, but I can get, I can get with that.
13:01Um, it's just, it's just the, the only thing I don't want to end up as is just assuming I
13:10need to make room for all these kids because of what I saw in a handful of games.
13:15I don't think that's good process.
13:20Robert Thomas led the league in shooting percentage this year, by the way, but he's played eight
13:26years and he's been a proven producer.
13:30Why are the blues going to want to trade him or Kyru or any, anybody else?
13:37Like the season ended, are they just, he's 20 going to be 27.
13:43This Thomas, like, is that, are they so far gone roster wise that they would just need
13:48to, is that like Eichel or somebody where?
13:50I mean, that's a good question.
13:52Um, how quickly, like there are other guys there that they might feel like they can build
13:58around the guys they got from Edmonton on the offer sheets.
14:02And I think, um, uh, Snuggerud is someone like they, they might feel like they've got a
14:10new young core that is a couple of years away.
14:14And if they can clean up on a Thomas deal and get like, you know, one, one of the, one
14:22of the guys here, you know, Ausland, Helen use, uh, Quinn, somebody, not Benson.
14:29Like to me, Benson is no touch.
14:32Um, and say Murtka and a pick.
14:36Like, well, I've turned that into three assets and I am sort of starting over.
14:41So a guy in his prime with an $8 million contract, maybe doesn't make the most sense, especially
14:47if I can parlay it into three pieces that are more on the timeline of the other, the
14:53new young core I'm building that, that, that would be to me, St. Louis's motivation.
14:58And it would be the same with Kairu.
14:59Like his name has come up now.
15:01Um, what I'm reading from all the insiders is they're making their trade lists here.
15:06Cause we're at that time of the year.
15:08Um, is that like Thomas was more, people were calling the blues about Thomas more than they
15:15were shopping him.
15:16And that Kairu may be a player, a winger, as opposed to a center.
15:20They're more willing to move in the off season, same motivation, been a good player.
15:26And, but timeline wise, does it make sense for us to have, you know, 26, 27 year old guys
15:32on big deals.
15:34If we're not going to be contending for a couple of years.
15:37So maybe he's a, a target.
15:39And to me, he fits as a, as a talk replacement more, even more directly than Thomas.
15:43Thomas to me solves a problem.
15:46If I get a way to offload Norris, cause it's a new number one center, which is really what
15:51Norris is on this team.
15:53If Thompson stays on the wing and I'm leery of trusting that too.
15:58So I like that idea, but if you traded for Kairu at the cost will be less as far as
16:04assets
16:05given out to acquire the player, he's probably a plug and play replacement for talk, at least
16:10on the, on the line he's on.
16:12I don't know about penalty killing and all that other stuff.
16:15Well, if I were to guess what the fans want, uh, it would be sign them.
16:22It's not my money.
16:23He was good.
16:24We love them.
16:25We had a caller who brought that up yesterday, all the jerseys in the crowd and everything
16:29like that.
16:29And that's probably, that probably stems from the, the beatings that Sabres fans have taken
16:36over the years on guys that have left and you're stuck with the Jersey or not even the
16:41Jersey, but just like the it's, it's so many losses versus so few wins in terms of top players,
16:48popular players coming versus going.
16:50And I don't begrudge that.
16:54I just don't know that I want to prioritize it for this because I think a bad contract
16:59is a bad contract.
17:00Even if you have, have never won the Stanley cup or even if, you know, he was popular.
17:05Like that's why I ended up against it, but I'm open to being persuaded.
17:11I think a lot of fans are probably, you know, keyed up over what the Sabres have turned into
17:18and wouldn't want to mess with it and could see talk as a particular way.
17:24of continuing things on and feeling like maybe times are different.
17:29So, um, yeah, I mean, I think, I think it's a really good discussion, which is why I was
17:34eager to have it like a second day in a row.
17:36It is very, very hard.
17:39I, I, if this hasn't been made clear, I'm not sure if it came up directly from me yesterday,
17:44but the, the past is a big, it's a big part of the thinking.
17:53And I, I, I freely admit that that is also not good process, but I just don't think I
18:02want to sit here with the team in a clear contending window, letting one of their most
18:09important guys walk.
18:11No, sure.
18:11Right.
18:12Like that's, I just don't want to, you know, it's not that they've let everybody go.
18:15Skinner was brought up yesterday by our guest.
18:18And I think when you bring Skinner's name up, you're saying like, I don't think I would
18:21sign this player because like, look how that went.
18:24So that's an example.
18:25I mean, there's so much to say.
18:27A lot of this was brought up yesterday too, that they signed certain young players and not
18:32all of them did it look like a home run.
18:34And then it kind of did eventually, you know, thinking of Samuelson and certain others.
18:38So it's not that they've let everybody walk.
18:41They're not the, the raise.
18:44No, they have not.
18:45No.
18:46But what they did do is proactively, this is to their credit.
18:50They, they got those guys on deals and they've hit on enough of them that they're considered.
18:57Is it okay to say a $7 million contract's a bargain?
19:00Like you're getting good value off of those contracts now is really the first time the
19:09Dahlin extension.
19:10The most recent extension is an example that that's a market rate extension.
19:13Like if he had stayed on seven or 8 million a year, you'd be a bargain, but he's, he's,
19:17he's where he belongs.
19:18But mostly this is the first time you've had to pay market rate.
19:26And to punt on that, there's just a certain, the optics of it, I don't think are great.
19:32803-0550.
19:33How much do the optics matter?
19:34What would you do?
19:35Mike Schoep in the bull.
19:36Mike Schoep.
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